>The Avengers are now outselling Absolute solely on the promise of Zdarsky possibly, maybe, potentially putting OMD in the dumpster where it belongs along with Paul Rabin.Marvel really was just leaving money on the table for all these years. I can't believe Joe Quesada tricked them into thinking that crippling their golden goose with One More Day was a genius move.
Remember when Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man was celebrated like the second coming for capeshit comics since Rebirth?When it came out it just had a sea of glowing reviews on LOCGNow even though the luster has faded and the Ultimate universe has now been overshadowed by Absolute I still remember that moment being baffled that it really shouldn't be THAT easy for people to get investedLiterally everyone who isn't someone approaching or past 40 (and then it's a minority among them) think OMD was a good idea
>>156228451>solely on the promise of Zdarsky possibly, maybe, potentially putting OMD in the dumpster where it belongs along with Paul Rabin.And yet>>156228486>Despite Mephisto contract fallout in Avengers and Captain America, Zdarsky insists he is not undoing One More Day.
>>156228691I'm not reading your thread Gwenschizo. Sorry, you should have made yours a few minutes sooner or something.
>>156228451The issue itself is complete garbage.>>156228493>Remember when Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man was celebrated like the second coming for capeshit comics since Rebirth?Yeah, they tried to do a soft Miracleman angle with Peter and it went nowhere. I suspect this will be more of that, except Colton is the Miracleman in this case.You'd also think it would be too late for the undoing of OMD to mean anything.
Everything I've read from the interviews he's given show Marvel rowing out to sea sawing their floor.Again.
>>156228938It's never too late to undo OMD until they shutter up, what may easily go wrong is it's not addressed honestly, skillfully or in a way that wins back the very aggrieved crowd or repairs the characters.The one who who stabbed you typically makes a poor nurse.
>>156228938>The issue itself is complete garbage.I know. It’s succeeding solely off of Spider-Man finally getting to confront Mephisto for OMD. Marvel was just throwing perfectly good money away for all these years, for no reason at all.
>>156228493It was still selling better than amazing was in most months of release. It went until after they announced the universe would end that the luster faded. The book really needed a companion piece though, one book for Peter action and one for the 90% of the shit that took up time in the spider-man book
>>156228981It's a JRPG plot as Mephisto stalks the street a hobo about to empower the usual suspects for more fistfights. The key jangling thing that has dominated all the headlines is already getting downplayed and its appeal misunderstood by Chip, if you run at the football again folks I don't know what you expected.On its own merits, no actual panels or events are making waves besides the obvious one Chips already swept.
>>156228998The time gimmick was a tumour that ate the line, there was a real want for family-man Peters week by week adventures, it got swept into the usual Hickman grandiose Mysterio stuff way too fast.
>>156228451A majority of comic buyers that didn't gave up yet are just idiots, so they cater to it with hype shit that will sell a few issues and writhe out within a week or month depending on the shilling level. The closest to a comic actually meant to be read we had those last few years is Absolute Batman, even then it feeds on hype
>>156228975It just seems to me that if even making vague motions towards getting rid of OMD leads to an otherwise fairly average first issue sell twice that of a milestone issue of Absolute Superman, that maybe they really should get rid of OMD.
>>156229435OMD is the worlds most retarded bottleneck, it's not just a narrative failure, it has told the whole audience do not get invested in Peters romance or family life because short of more missing relatives it's not getting bigger or progressing anywhere. They have had twenty years to try reach the peaks before, they haven't, only gimmicks are left.
>>156228493I was 10 when OMD came out and hated it though, it made me drop cape comics entirely until the absolute line came along
>>156228451Its not outselling absolute batman>>156228493Ultimate spider-man was marvel's best selling comic since star wars 1 , its a big easy thing.
>>156228938I dont see how its the mirecleman angle, he's just feeling that he had his destiny stolen, and he gets it back, the first arc fosuces on him ajdustinc to this role, as the rest of the book deals more in the plot/setting. Idk, that part of the story was kinda done within the same issue.You say that as if it wasnt 20 years after the marriage that they undid it.
>>156228493>Literally everyone who isn't someone approaching or past 40 (and then it's a minority among them) think OMD was a good ideaI love how they thought they were doing it for the young generations coming up.They weren't.And that we would thank them for it.We're not.I remember growing up with the marriage, I was not fucking happy when I found out about what happened in the comics, and basically blackpilled me on ever taking Marvel comics as an art seriously, at least with this lot in charge.Almost all fanart online is relationships and romance, a fanbase and discourse dies on it, they have done nothing but sabotage both.
>>156228451#1s always sell really well.
>>156229596Yeah it's like Midnight.You need to wait until later issues to actually see past the Speculator inflation art.
>>156229503It outsold a milestone issue of Absolute Superman though.
>>156229596A number one of Avengers though, usually isn’t a #1 book by any means.
>>156229744Yeah but absolute superman isnt that impressive sales. Batman is a juggernaut, then wonder woman, the others all sell about the same, better than the main books, but not massive.
I won't believe it or hype it or even give a shit until I actually see it.
>>156229849Whether it does or doesn’t happen, it’s proof that it happening would be an immense success for them, and persisting would be an immense failure.
>>156229519It's really just the first issue. Happily-married man feels like something crucial is absent from his life, and unbeknownst to him that something is his true calling as a superhero. He reunites with the superhero persona he was meant to be by the end of the issue in a triumphant manner.
>>156230121Having his shit together and being leader of the Avengers is at least a step in the right direction after Wells.
>>156228938>The issue itself is complete garbageAnd yet it had a better written peter than asm lmao
>>156231529I need to know how the fuck something like the Wells run gets written.Something as insane as Wells was being paid under the table by DC to sabotage is something I could believe, it is that radioactively bad.
>>156229895They don't seem to care one way or the other, they just double down each time.
>>156231731It's actually extremely easy to write a good Spider-Man story.>>156231942We seem to be headed to another BREAK GLASS IN CASE OF EMERGENCY scenario for Marvel. The last time it happened was when GODS ended up being a flop, and gave us Ultimate Spider-Man 2.0.
>>156231974Just give Paul Tobin a run with the old Marvel Adventures universe, he would give a classic Spidey outing no problem.
>>156228493Comic fans are really gullible and stupid and let hype control them. I remember when people were super excited for Countdown to Final Crisis and I spent over half a year telling everyone they were insane if they thought Countdown was a good comic until people suddenly went from loving it to hating it overnight
>>156229468>it has told the whole audience do not get invested in Peters romance or family life because short of more missing relatives it's not getting bigger or progressing anywhereWhy do you need Peter’s love life to progress when the marriage didn’t progress it either if that’s the moronic metric you care about? They weren’t allowed to have a child. Their relationship didn’t progress beyond MJ having mental anguish from Peter being Spider-man
>>156230121Except with Miracle Man he was a superhero before. With USM it’s just a meta angle of a middle age man having a midlife crisis and becoming a superhero doesn’t even do anything with it
The more I look at modern day Spider-man fandom the more I just feel complete bafflement at how you people basically turned into a weirdo cult where everything just revolves around whining about a storyline that’s nearly 20 years old and pretending that if you just retconned that then all Spider-man comics would become the best thing ever for the rest of time. It’s so childish and petty.
>>156232839The problem is that in that 20 years old they've been both constantly teasing us with it and not filling it with anything else.
>>156232839It's no different from how half of /v/ is people complaining about games and brands for years on end but still paying money for them. The anger and resentment are part of the experience.
>>156232839>if you just retconned that then all Spider-man comics would become the best thing ever for the rest of timeThat's basically true at this point though. At the very least, it'll bring a lot of people back.
>>156232839>>156232808To retcon that one storyline would mean a seachange in the philosophy of the Bullpen, the one that denied a child being brought in and essentially allowing Peter to enter into the next stage of his life - one with greater responsibiltiies.Instead he has regressed, OMD was about more than a fictional marriage, it was about freezing Peter into Peter Pan in 616.Anyone who doesn't seem to understand this is ignorant at best, or disingenuous downplaying it at worst.
>>156228451More like Spider-Cattle are gullible retards and will fall for anything as usual
>>156233213>NOOO TOMBSTONE I BEG YOU>NOOO NORMAN I BEG YOU>NOOO TOOMES I BEG YOU
>>156233213The fact that people are still crying about this story just goes to show how pathetic the current fandom is
>>156233099See, this is just the type of weirdo derangement modern fans have.
>>156232820>becoming a superhero doesn’t even do anything with itHe was meant to be Spider-Man in that universe.
>>156233433You got an actual point in favour of BND and its mandate?
>>156233443
>>156232783Countdown was a bunch of good ideas poorly executed. A lot of the stories needed more time to marinate, and got crunched by the limited number of pages that could be offered to them.
>>156232839The problem with 616 spiderman isnt that it had a shitpile of a run 20 years ago. Its that the entire past 20 years has been shoving the readers base into the shitpile over and over again. OMD is not an event, it is a 20 year ongoing unresolved arc in spidermans life, where the past 20 years take place in what is explicitly described as the bad alternate timeline.
>>156234654It’s not unresolved arc. People like you are just obsessed with it and can’t move on. It’s sad, really.
>>156233491Yes, good stories have kept being written since then and they will keep doing so. I have been able to enjoy them.
>>156234715I'm not talking about individual stories, I'm talking about runs. We need an actual nucleus and cast you build an ongoing on.
>>156234710How does a fanbase move on when the ex they wanted gone is still the main love interest, and its getting the keychains jingled because it's resolution is the break glass event the ailing Marvel shares need?Marvel interns pls
>>156234710Explicitly, OMD takes place because prior to spiderman taking the deal with mephisto May Parker (daughter) is alive. After OMD takes place May Parker is not alive. But alternate universe May Parkers want May Parker 616 to be alive, because May Parker 616 is the only way to stop Mephistos plan.This entire plot has been hanging for 20 years, occasionally being poked at in the form of 'just to confirm everyone, May Parker is super dead now'.
>>156234785So many Spider-Variants but not the one everyone wants, that becomes the first female Superhero who reaches #100 issues.
>>156234710Zdarsky is literally resolving it now. If it was a perfect story, with nothing left to say, there’d be nothing Zdarsky would be addressing here, or having Peter confront. You shills are retarded.
>>156228451>The Avengers are now outselling AbsoluteOnly one issue has been released so far, retardo, with lots of variant covers, of course it's selling well. But Zdarsky isn't a good writer anymore, so sales will definitely collapse within a year.
>>156235660>Only one issue has been released so farI still would not have expected this issue to do as well as it did. >within a yearThat’s still a lot better than what Marvel’s currently doing.
>>156232839People always forget how awful ASM already was by the time the Clone Saga II started. Then came the terrible Mackie and Byrne run until JMS took over. Even then, under we had terrible arcs like Sins Past, The Other, and everything from Civil War, Back in Black, and finally OMD. So some sort of hard reboot was necessary at that point. That doesn't mean that OMD was inevitable, it's just that Spider-Man needed something more than some slight adjustments that JMS tried to make during his run to fix what was already broken. And BND wasn't a bad concept per se; it just wasn't executed well.OMD could have worked slightly better if, instead of May, it was MJ who got mortally wounded, then, Peter would have had to choose between letting her die as his wife or letting her live with the cost being their marriage. It would be like saying, "I love you so much, I am ready to sacrifice everything for you, including our marriage, just to make you alive again." Then again, it shouldn't have taken 20+ years to let go of that deal. Maybe six or seven years, say, BND plus Big Time, and then nullify the deal with Mephisto, as they just did in Avengers.
>>156229566This
>>156229744>It outsold a milestone issue of Absolute SupermanOh, ok so this was a false alarm then. Even this desperate move did fucking nothing.
>>156235816I think the problem was that Zeb flew too close to the sun. The runs under Slott weren’t good but they were at least tolerably bad, and Spencer at least put Peter and MJ back together so people were more willing to leave OMD swept under the rug.Then Spencer fucked around with editorial’s Golden Calf, which was OMD and the all important Mephisto deal, too many people were talking about Peter and MJ getting married again instead of just mumbling “Muh Gwen Muh Gwen Muh Gwen” in perpetuity, and it looked dangerously close to Peter actually starting to develop as a character again, all of which were violations in the tenets of the Joe Quesada Death Cult as outlined in Tom Brevoort’s Unabomber Manifesto.Zeb Wells was given a holy mandate to go all out, scorch the earth, and salt the fields, in order to bring things back to their Golden Age of BND. And Paul Rabin, the IP’s new golden boy, fucked them over so badly that now he’s dragged even the Mephisto deal down to hell with him.
>>156232839>if you just retconned that then all Spider-man comics would become the best thing ever for the rest of time.But that's blatantly obvious and true
>>156236196I’d certainly buy the books again. I bought Ultimate because I wanted an alternative that had a clean break from OMD and editorial’s “Spider-Man Manifesto.”For now though I’ll just pirate this shit and complain online.
>>156236196Mary Jane being a supporting wife along for the ride wouldn't have made Spider-Verse, Parker Industries, Dark Web, Gang War, 8 Deaths, or Death Spiral better stories.
>>156230121I guess? Though, again its something that is explored within that first issue and resolved with it.
>>156236297It would have made gang war, 8 deaths and death psyral better, what? And MJ being the one knowing otto isnt spider-man would have superior less stupid. Parker industries and spider-verse are horrible concpets to begin with.
>>156236297It would have kept Paul out of the books completely, and we wouldn’t have a succession of ESL retards screaming about how the most boring man on earth, who also killed more people than Adolf Hitler, should have the entire Marvel revolve around him and how he needs to rape Dylan Brock. Paul was the culmination of OMD and BND, and it was complete and utter shit.
>>156236372Not necessarily, marital infidelity makes for heavy drama. Wells would have been even more delighted to write that given his own failed marriage.
>>156236418All of which could have been prevented by simply saying “no, we don’t want to fuck with the marriage.” If they were allowed to be together, we’d have never had Paul, and the thousandth issue of ASM would have been able to make more money than a $3 Batman issue. Now Marvel’s lost its Market Share lead to DC and they’re going full on Break Glass in Case of Emergency by letting Zdarsky fuck around with Mephisto and OMD as much as he likes, something that they previously raped Nick Spencer for even daring to try.
>>156236476A mandate against divorce isn't a mandate against infidelity. Given that it's a forever comic, it was inevitable. Betty Brant whored around with Peter and Flash while she was married with Ned and the two are still married and now with a baby. JMS retconned Gwen whoring around with Norman when she was with Peter.
>>156236519All I’m saying is that if Nick Lowe didn’t give Zeb Wells a mandate to break them up by any means necessary, and to do it so badly that people will want Peter to have absolutely nothing to do with MJ anymore, then Paul would never have happened. Now Marvel is left with an even bigger mess than Clone Saga, and it lasted twice as long.
>>156236281Ditto>>156236297Otto possessing Peter with Peter still married to MJ would open a whole extra layer of ick. Otto fapping to the memories of Peter having sex with MJ is one thing, but him trying to have sex with her cause she's his wife would be an entirely different can of worms.
>>156228451>things that never happened
>>156236012>Paul>>156236372>PaulPaulPaulPaulPaul>>156236476>>156236575>PaulI maintain that Paul would be a great character if he hadn't been created just to cuck Peter. His background story is a great one. Strip MJ out and you have an excellent tragic character, trying to atone for helping destroy an entire world, one person at a time.
>>156236575Lowe didn't have any mandate. He didn't give a damn either way which was Spencer linked them up in the first place at the insistence of Quesada himself. Spencer outright said he was surprised to find out that there was never any mandate keeping Peter and Mary Jane apart, that was entirely Slott's preference. Wells didn't want to write a happy couple because he was deeply unhappy with the state of his own affairs. He even refused to write the Black Cat romantic getaway story which actually was an editorial mandate because they felt his Spider-Man was too much of a self-pitying loser.
>spider-fags outperforming x-fags in the worst fanbase categorywhew
>>156236597In other words, the worst excesses and red flags of Slott being sleazy would be curbed and we could just focus on the Spock shit.I'm in favor. We'd also skip the godawful Spock dating around in someone elses body and Carlie knowing shenanigans.It shouldn't have taken until Silk before Slott finally got called up for this gross shit.
>>156236634Its just too much ngl.
>>156236634I just don’t think he should have tried to rape Dylan Brock.
>>156236655>>156236655You can't blame Spock for dating, it's not like he hooked up with any of Peter's exs, he found somebody new. Octavius has enough self-confidence he's managed to pull chicks in his own pudgy body.
>>156236634Pauls 'redemption' makes no sense as written by Zeb, Kelly and Ewing. Hell half the time they are downplaying and denying the actual story that was explicitly given. Paul was in charge, he was the classic ass CEO exploiting his own mentally vulnerable father and ignoring the concerns of underlings.You go full monk working in the third world abstaining from earthly pleasures to try redeem yourself here, you don't play house. You don't date and go on spa trips with Supermodels. These are unserious people writing about serious topics, which is why they get the reaction they want but overplayed their hand.
>>156236677I had stopped reading Marvel by that point (thanks in part to Paul) so what happened? AFIAK he just temporarily adopted him. (Cause he has such a great track record with kids so far.)
>>156236691>it's not like he hooked up with any of Peter's exs, he found somebody newHe explicitly kissed MJ, he was going to sleep with her until he was interrupted, he masturbated to the memories of Peter and MJ intimite.Otto used anothers body to date and did not tell her what he was, leaving that bomb to explode later. He's just a skeevy creep that isn't called out.
>>156236701>ignoring the concerns of underlingsHe also let a cancer patient manage his dad instead of keeping his father on rails himself. And the cancer patient ended up easily killed by his psychotic dad. Paul was irresponsible
>>156236729But MJ keeps saying he reminds her of Peter?Somehow. No really I need someone in that office to square that for me.
>>156236702After MJ broke up with him he started treating Dylan like his rebound, even screaming at Eddie Brock to stay away from Dylan in exactly the same way that he’d tell Peter “stay away from my girl!” in relation to MJ. Shit was creepy, Paul was a creepy guy. Glad he’s dead, but I don’t know why he lasted so long despite having absolutely nothing to offer.
>>156236734It’s because Marvel approves of genocide. Rabin was also the surname of an Israeli Prime Minister, Marvel was subtly trying to signal support for Israel eradicating native Palestinians.
>>156236759Why isn't Dylan with Eddie anyway?
>>156236789You're close.Rabin was the PM who signed the Oslo Accords that were supposed to bring peace with Palestine. But Arafat and the PLO quickly broke the treaty and kept killing, which led to a guy name Netanyahu getting elected Prime Minister instead.So every time Peter screams something like "I HATE YOU RABIN" he's voicing his frustration with the failure of the Olso Accords and the murder of the Israeli left-wing.
>>156236792No idea. Even in the new Venom run he’s off to boarding school or some shit.
>>156236725Otto was a creep and yet Slott wanted to depict his romance with Anna Marie like some sort of feminist triumph, way better than shitty old Peter and MJ.
>>156236886He's on video saying that MJ is anti-marvel as opposed to someone like Anna Marie.I don't know how someone has the cojenes to say they know what Marvel is better than the OG, but there you go. When shilling OC's, go full shameless.
>>156236855But I thought he and MJ had some great bond that was referenced all through ANV and QIB- pfffff hahahaha
>>156236952It’s funny because Anna Marie is a 9/10 with achondroplasia. Like she’s still ridiculously hot, and meets some pretty blatant fetishes, but Slott acts as if Otto, a greasy, narcissistic, obese mass murderer with a bowl cut, is somehow doing her a favor for overlooking her freakish deformities.
>>156236992No you don't understand, Otto is a WOMAN RESPECTER. He would date someone like HER, unlike SOMEBODY who only dates SUPERMODELS.Like, pick literally anyone else for this hack-job, Otto was with Aunt May and then dated MJ, he's gross.
>>156232783I liked the Secret Six and Villains United stuff back when. I think it was just short of enough issues for the Villain War to happen and thankfully not more than needed for the punchline at the end of the event.
>>156228451If they get rid of OMD and put Peter and MJ back together, married or unmarried, I’ll buy ASM again. And I’ll drop it the nanosecond they fuck with it again.
>>156237301To me until the 616 relationship between these two is fixed with some skill to draw out the poison, I'm done. Not just with them, but with 616 in general.I'll still be interested and maybe buy alt universes and non-616 stuff like Ultimate if it comes back, but they've effectively soiled the nest. You did it Joe Q and crew, you ruined them for me. I'm not sitting to eat the chicken korma, I'll just get my romance reading somewhere else.
>>156235816The Other isn't that bad and the Civil War issues under JMS aren't bad just focusing on plot points and the retarded 2000's Marvel 616 at the time which drags it down. But his handling of in the run Peter is ok. Back in Black is a little overrated because of the Kingpin scene but yeah the rest is shit like OMD and Sins Past and that's it, imo.
>>156237437It’s funny how the true and definitive legacy of OMD ended up being Paul Rabin, a rapist who got away with genocide.
>>156236792Eddie is a terrible father
>>156236281Wow, talk about embarrassing
Why don’t you just marry Spider-man and make your slash fanfics canon, anon?
>>156237521I don't know which character made more of the cast act like idiotic parodies of themselves around them to make the plot work, Spock or Rabin?It has to be Rabin right? You'd think Felicia would be trying to bring MJ to a deprogrammer seeing all the red flags right?
>>156237301I just don’t understand people like this. How is someone so obsessed with a fictional marriage?
>>156232839>It’s so childish and petty.So was OMD as it was done at the behest of a man that didn't like MJ and wanted to bring back Gwen So is the consistent baiting Marvel does towards fans
>>156237621NTA but I'm not sitting to eat the Korma anon.
>>156237634Quesada liked Mary Jane, he just didn't like the marriage and how it removed a big source of character conflict. He was the one who put a stop to the Mary Nag and Lying Peter characterization from the 90s.
>>156237734>Quesada liked Mary Jane, he just didn't like the marriageI could respect that opinion. Still, OMD's entire concept is horrible.
>>156237763OMD was stupid story. That doesn’t make every comic after it bad.
>>156237782I mean, I agree. I just don't really like this trend of Pete being a bad luck magnet on top of being a spineless tuna.
>>156237621>How is someone so obsessed with a fictional marriage?I already said that I don’t care about the marriage. I just want this endless dicking around with bland literally who’s like Shay or Webhead or Raelith to be over and done with. It’s too fucking boring.
>>156237782Most of the comics were bad though, and pretty much the only story that the marriage would have actually prevented was the one with Paul. And that was the shittiest one.
>>156238084The books are all so fucking boring. Where are all those great stories that could only be told with a single Spider-Man, Quesada, you imbecile! Maybe if you were less of a fucking embarrassment your father wouldn’t have willed himself to die of his cancer!
>>156237734>didn't like the conflict>supports loving marriage>then rips it away because it has no conflictHoly disingenuous statements and arguments Batman!Yeah you're a faggot. The shit with the conflict in the marriage largely only happened during the Clone Saga, one that pushes everyone to the edge, and other attempts by people Quesada agrees with during Mackie's run where they did it trying to get rid of the marriage in a different way. Quesadilla is fucking lying and the push for Gwen is further proof.>>156237782Yeah the BND writers and editorial ensured that. Also Slott sucks shit out from a straw and eats dick the long way.
>>156237734>Mary Nag and Lying Peter characterization from the 90s.Every time someone says some shit about the marriage being bad it's always because of Mackie's run shitting up everything
>>156238523Yeah and that was a hamfisted, orchestrated effort to get rid of it. It's such a fucking easily debunked debate point and I don't get these faggots' damage.
>>156238523Mackie was just trying to do OMD before OMD. Surprise! Mackie’s run is also regarded as complete and utter shit.
>>156228451I think about how everyone was saying physical bookstores were going to die and Amazon was everything, but then Barnes and Nobel got a new CEO and business started booming and they actually started opening new stores instead of closing old ones. You'd be amazed how quickly a change in leadership can radically change a business. Someone comes in with better ideas and right a ship that's gone far off course. I hope Chip is successful. I personally will never forgive him for the Gotham War storyline, which I thought was not only terrible but actually evil. But maybe he will do good leading Marvel into a new era.
>>156238523Wasn't just Mackie. This is from DeFalco.
>>156238650And this is from Hama in one of the Venom minis.
>I have hated Spider-man for 20 years and I will never quit reading him so that I can seethe about it every dayGet a better hobby
>>156238650>WHAT?! MOMENTS OF CONFLICT ABOUT TRIVIAL MATTERS THAT ARE RESOLVED BY THE END OF THE ISSUE?!? NOOOOOOO!!!! IT HAS TO BE EVIDENCE OF THE ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP FOR 20 YEARS IN EVERY OTHER ISSUE BEING BORING AND SPITE-FILLED! IGNORE ALL THOSE OTHER PAGES OF IMPLIED SEX, MJ's B-PLOTS AT AUNT MAY'S, AND HER ACTING AND MODELLING CAREER!Grasping at straws.
>>156238703Oh so a hobby like going into threads and intentionally baiting or arguing with people you disagree with so you can gain some perverse pleasure? Yeah no thanks.
>>156228792Chip said he’s not undoing OMD
>>156238754Nta, but yeah? Gwenschizo is quite the idiot for advertising to anons that OMD is not being undone, thereby achieving what anons already wanted to do, which is not buy comics, forcing Marvel to get even more desperate and eventually undo OMD even fucking harder.
>>156238703Thank you officer I promise to only say nice things about your favorite comic from now on.
>>156238754>>156238804That was from an Dom of X interview before the first issue came out, and Bleeding Cool misinterpreted it after they reported on it weeks later. When he said “I’m not the guy” he said he’s not the one to bring Peter and MJ back together, it’s for Joe Kelly to figure out. He still said that Mephisto getting all his contracts voided is going to have ramifications for Peter. Here’s what Zdarsky actually said, in that same interview Rich Johnston is misquoting from:>"I just thought about the idea of, like, Doom take -- winning in the end, and just taking over Hell, and what does that mean? What does that look like? And one of the things I just thought of was like, 'Well, like, Doom -- Doom's not a slave owner. He's not that level of evil. Like, he wouldn't want to own souls. That's owning people, right? And so, whatever contracts that Mephisto drew up for that, like, no, Doom -- Doom is not going to honor those. Like, that's -- that's -- that's ridiculous.' Um, which, you know, obviously there's a -- a famous contract in Amazing Spider-Man... So, you know, there's going to be -- there's going to be some ripples there."Rich Johnston is fiercely retarded, and is obsessed with baiting people. He’s got slightly better English than Gwenschizo but gets shit wrong just as often before trying to pass it off as trolling afterwards.
>>156238913Rich is an absolute cretin who should be run out of the "business" he's in.
>>156238998In other words, only Gwenschizo is retarded enough to fall for his shit.
>>156238913Yeah it's clearly having ramifications for Peter in the sense that angels are trying to kill May. It has nothing to do with Mary Jane for the time being though.
>>156239072Yeah. They’re getting rid of the Mephisto deal, but how this affects Peter and MJ, or even whether or not this brings the marriage back, is for Joe Kelly to decide. OMD is still getting shitcanned. This isn’t a new revelation by any means anon, or even breaking news. We already discussed the same interview to death, the one that Rich Johnston is deliberately misinterpreting now, more than a week ago. Rich is a fucking moron. He’s not a Marvel employee, he’s not an insider, he’s an imbecile on a clickbait website.
>>156236792because they want to return to the basic, same reason why OMD happened
>>156239471The basic is Eddie Brock as a supervillain obsessed with killing Spider-Man. The even more basic is Spider-Man wearing the Black Suit without knowing it’s alive. The most basic is to have him back in high-school right after Ben died.When only retards define what counts as “basic” then “back to basics” is going to end up as something utterly retarded.
>>156239504You got to understand, we need to bring back Gwens spirit from the afterlife one more time so Peter can say MUH GWEN and the office claps again.A few more trips and Gwens ghosts gets a complimentary key-chain.
>>156237579What's embarrassing?
>>156228451Petercels yearly cope that OMD is going away isn't outselling Absolute Batman.
>>156239504I meant going back to the lethal protector status quo, just like going back to basic for Daredevil post shadowland wasn't going back to the yellow suit.The problem with giving a character a kid is that all future story have to be in some way about him being a parent or to make him look very irresponsable.
>>156239668Stop asking questions and just consume product or you’re cringe.
>>156239689It’s at least outselling Absolute Superman, which is way more than I expected from a fucking Avengers book with no Cap, Tony, or Thor.
>>156239691He's good friends with Normie Osborne, just have Liz adopt Dylan, she can afford it, and Eddie can go off and do his thing.
>>156239700>>156239668Only glazing is valid conversation.All complaints are invalid, and complainers must leave the hobby and are disallowed from the threads for their health.
>>156239547It’s weird. I never had any strong opinions of Gwen before, but after experiencing Gwenschizo enough times I fucking loathe her. Every time I see her I just hear the shrill screams of an obese Polish man ranting about child molestation.
>>156239691Eddie has been a prison Dad for a long while, Dylan was sadly never going to get that rockwell painting upbringing since his mother committed suicide and his Dad is his Dad.
>>156239747It's hard to have strong feelings about drywall painted three different colours to try make it interesting.All the angelic paintings put on it after her death deny what she actually was in the run. Everything is projection and post-hoc stuff by officehacks who love the dream more than what was actually put on paper.
>>156239787I liked her better when she was a stuck-up ojou-sama who didn’t actually like Peter but found his indifference to her maddening. Gwenschizo hated that original version of her though, because in his native Poland women apparently just don’t have thoughts or personalities.
>>156239713It's a big boost to normal avengers sales yeah but the difference between Absolute Batman sales and the rest of the line is as wide as an ocean so saying it's outselling Absolute as a whole is a bit off
>>156239845You’re right. I should have specified that it was relative to only Absolute Superman in the OP.
>>156239668You
>>156239917No… you.
>>156239322>but how this affects Peter and MJ, or even whether or not this brings the marriage back, is for Joe Kelly to decide.It's not for Kelly to decide. That's a Marvel EiC and executive decision.>OMD is still getting shitcanned.This doesn't matter. Aunt May will end up saved by some other deal.
>>156240098>It's not for Kelly to decide. That's a Marvel EiC and executive decision.We have a new EIC, Marvel has fallen behind DC for the first time in decades, and they had a massive internal restructuring and a move to Burbank. I think editorial’s in desperation mode.>This doesn't matter. Aunt May will end up saved by some other deal.With whom? Certainly not Mephisto, given the Avengers are trying to take him out.
>>156238703It's funny how well this applies to those OMD boomer faggots.
>>156240209>we can stay retarded long enough for an entirely new next generation who will thank us>the next generation do not thank themlmao
>>156239825>because in his native Poland women apparently just don’t have thoughts or personalities.He's never been raped by a Slavic woman and it shows
>>156240138>We have a new EIC,Who's an old Spider-Man editor who got on board with Brand New Days.>Marvel has fallen behind DC for the first time in decades,Purely because of Absolute and Midnight is their response to that. They won't be competing with Absolute Batman with Amazing Spider-Man, it's old hat.
>>156241660>Who's an old Spider-Man editor who got on board with Brand New Days.And is aware that a lot of shit needs to change and that maintaining course ala Cebulski is going to screw him over.>Purely because of Absolute and Midnight is their response to that. They won't be competing with Absolute Batman with Amazing Spider-Man, it's old hat.Midnight isn’t going to be an Absolute level success, by premise alone it’s going to be more niche. They need to do more to get people buying, Midnight alone can’t fix things for Marvel
>>156228451Its not outselling Absolute haha
>>156241822I'm certain when Lucy pulls the football again it will capsize.
>>156241822It outsold Absolute Superman just this week by a 2:1 ratio.
>>156241933It’ll sell even better once OMD is shitcanned for good instead of just teasing it!
>>156242033They will Joe Q legalese a reason why they aren't going to be married again, even assuming they let it get that far.We are in it for another decade until the usual suspects are finally gone.
>>156242033Absolutely crazy to think that the same creative team making the same stories only with a married main character is what's keeping it from selling significantly more.
>>156228451Nothing will change the fact that Spiderman canonically made a selfish deal with the devil himself.
>>156242104That does seem to be a significant factor!>>156242132So did Captain America.
>>156242132That dirty 616 Spidey did.I've been with alts ever since, I ain't fucking with that lad anymore. He eats his wifes boyfriends korma.
>>156242033>once OMD is shitcanned for goodNot happening unless there's a major purge at Marvel.
>>156242104That's the thing, the stories being made are a fruit of the same philosophy shared by its creative team.To actually get OMD undone and a marriage restored with a kid etc, you have to have an entire generation change. New stories.
>>156242256There was in fact a significant leadership purge at the top levels of Marvel with ongoing changes trickling down for anyone unwilling to toe the line.
>>156239787>All the angelic paintings put on it after her death deny what she actually was in the runI like that peter did this though, its one of those 'shes a better character dead' things. Kinda like how peter remembers ben as this wise sage of infinite wisdom when he's just a dude.
Why are Marywhoretards so stupid? Like they are all mentally stunt.
>>156242197Paul is dead, and died an unloved faggot.
>>156242389It’s the Gwenshitters we need to beat them with hammers and then rape them!
>>156242386It's yet to hit the people who actually decide the pulse of the thing though.I don't believe any change will happen so long as BND guys are the majority, and certainly not while Lowe is still ASM's editor.
>>156242407Cebulski was the biggest Gwenfag on the planet and was dogmatic about OMD and basically ran the company into the fucking ground. We need a full purge of Gwen and her fans before anything else.
>>156242433I think Lowe can be frightened into throwing people a bone, or else Paul would still be alive.
>>156242347As far as I can see, there's no indication that anyone under the age of 70 is interested in writing married Spider-Man stories. Even back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of people not interested in that.
>>156242595Bruh neither DeFalco nor Bendis are anti MJ or anti-marriage
>>156242632DeFalco was the one who approved the clone saga and Bendis was part of the One More Day story group.
>>156242595Nonsense, there are plenty of people that would be interested, they just aren't all part of the same club that goes back to the 90's.You read that and you see guys all in on the marriage and children as a problem to be solved, and the perception of an aging character as something to be avoided, rather than embraced and used for new and worthwhile stories. How much can you milk something the original creators moved on from?If you want a young single Peter, write a young single Peter. 616 is on the skids because they have been fighting the narratives natural bend for the longest time.
>>156242688There was nothing natural about how the marriage happened in the first place. Forced gimmick.
>>156242747It was in response to fans at greets, was embraced wholeheartedly by the fans and has been a bitter tantrum from the usual suspects ever since.It's always been top-down opposition.
>>156242647>DeFalco was the one who approved the clone sagaThe Clone Saga was supposed to be the ultimate having your cake and eating it too storyline. Peter Parker gets his happy ending and is allowed to be married and start a family, and also Peter Parker is young and hip and can do whatever wacky thing the writers want to do with him.
>>156242986And it was always silly, just keep advancing the 616 story and if you absolutely need your young swinging single Peter, start a new ongoing and see if there is an audience for it.They invent the most convoluted solutions for problems that don't exist.
>>156243244>Young single swinger Spider-Man going on wacky adventures: sex drugs, rock and roll. Euphoria meets fear and loathing meets "kids".>Deviant Spider-Man>The Degenerate Spider-Man
>>156232783>I spent over half a year telling everyone they were insane if they thought Countdown was a good comic until people suddenly went from loving it to hating it overnightYou fucking liar we all knew countdown was shit after the first few issues. Fucking Captain Hindsight over here with his faithful sidekicks Shoulda, Woulda, and Coulda.
>>156242647Both Bendis and DeFalco are known as pro-marriage writers, which is likely why Bendis was never a part of the approved BND clique like Well, Slott, or Kelly.
>>156238523>MackieI remember being like eleven or twelve buying the relaunch issues off the rack and thinking there’s just no way Spider-Man could ever be worse than that. Time makes fools of us all
>>156242104Its true. Superman never recovered from marrying Lois Lane in action comics # 484 in 1978 so eventually they had to kill off both the characters.
>>156243609That was definitely the weird vibe we had in the early BND days with Peter making out at parties and waking up with women. It felt like the tidal wave of middle-aged wish fulfillment was landing.Also Peters incident with one of the Michelles we don't talk about.
>>156243986>MichelleWhat happened? Is that the midget?
>>156235816The problem with OMD is always the time frame and the fact no one else could help. If it had been anyone bleeding out in his arms when Mephisto showed up and said let's make this deal, with no time to think, no time to consider the ramification of his actions, it would make sense because Peter would think that their love could even beat the devil, and it was a small price to save a life.But instead he had enough time to go beat the hell out of Fisk, then fly around the world to see Strange, T'Challa, the X-men(who had 2 mutants capable of healing others just hanging out in Elixer and Angel), Reed Richards, Dr. Doom(who would probably do it out of spite at that point since Reed and Strange couldn't). He couldn't even convince Tony to make a device like he had for the shrapnel. Oh, he also met the One Above All, you know, the capital G god of the Marvel Universe, who told him to accept May's fate, and after all of that, he makes a deal with a literal devil. If a plot requires everyone who can stop it not to be out of the way, but just outright refusing for no real reason, it's not a good plot.
>>156242595>Even back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of people not interested in thatHere’s the bitch of that tho. Since the 80s and 90s Mary Jane has become to Spider-Man what Lois is to Superman in the public eye. Thanks to the movies, the 90s cartoon, the Insomniac games and twenty years of comic books Mary Jane became the endgame for Peter Parker to a huge majority of normies and comic book fans. It’s why every time since they’ve tried to shack Peter with someone else it hasn’t worked, just like during new52 when Didio and Lee tried to hookup Superman with Wonder Woman. Didn’t work. Fans don’t want to see it. Guys like Quesada were stuck in that 70s and 80s idea that Peter has to be an eternally late teens, early twenties hip cat who’s banging all kinds of different girls and hanging out at the coffee bean. But fans have moved on from that and that’s not what they want anymore. And the problem is the previous Marvel regime had dug their heels in, they know it’s not what fans want but undoing it would mean they were wrong and they can’t have that.
>>156244039Michelle was someone Peter was apparently too drunk to remember waking up in bed with.This got hastily retconned to apple juice and makes the scene nonsensical, but they weren't thinking with their brains here.>>156244046The entire day thing is just insane, if this was a split-second of weakness from both at the moment of despair with May actively slipping in front of them, it's still objectively the wrong thing to make deals with the arch tempter but you can understand the emotional compromised angle.This is an entire day to consider with a lot of travel whether a deal with the devil was a bad idea. Our two leads are actual idiots.It's funny how he visits everyone except for Johnny. The one guy who might have had choice words about this.>>156244072Only the removal of the Marvel equivalent of Didios allow things to heal.
>>156244233Also, I forgot the bit where he stole a time travel spell from Strange, went back to try and fix it, failed, got hurt, and when he showed back up in the Sanctum, Strange healed him, with magic. Magic he can, again, just do whenever he wants.
>>156238913>'Well, like, Doom -- Doom's not a slave owner. He's not that level of evil.>Doom has destroyed entire universes and killed untold bazillions.>No problem! Thats cool beans. Nothing wrong with that.>Doom could be seen as a slave owner by owning souls>HE WOULD NEVER DO THAT, THATS A STEP TOO FAR REEEEEEEELmfao. What a retard.
>>156245640It’s true. Doom may do plenty of awful things but he has a certain moral code and slavery certainly isn’t something he would condone, let alone support
>>156243794Fuck you, this board was defending the book for months.
>>156242688Yeah why isn’t Peter 70 years old Spider-man now? Think about how many food stories you could make about his arthritis
Honestly just fire every editor and writer who's been at Marvel for more than 15 years at this point. Fuck these faggots and fuck their clique horseshit. Sometimes the only cure for cancer is extremely aggressive chemo.
>>156245640OWUD he had the entire population of Latveria strapped to a pain engine for superpowers, he absolutely is a slave owner Chip what are you even talking about?>>156245788Why is it too extremes? Forever going over and harkening back to highschool blink and you miss it young Peter or geriatric retired Peter.You know there is an entire life to live people would like to read about extensively? He doesn't have to age unless an author has a need, it's fucking fiction. It's the bizarre self-inserters at the office who feel like him aging is a comment on their own mortality. Write the story as required, it doesn't need to be kept evergreen in stasis at one particular point in time.
>>156245886Hey Peter has to keep progressing and getting older, we can’t have him hustling repeat the same beats at age 30-40. People want things to matter! If he is married he needs to have kids and if he has kids he has to grow old and have grandchildren. That’s how it works. You’re trying to stifle creativity. He’s been around for 64 years already, he should not be this young. He can’t be in stasis!
>>156246097You're being facetious and disingenuous, Peter can be whatever age he needs to be for a story. It's fiction, not linear.But this current interpretation of Peter is regressed and lesser from what we have seen before, a vision of youth told by boomers and gen X creators long past it and with nothing more to say. They should move him on, or they should move on, and some younger crowd can tell a young Peters story when the time is right.Right now the audience appetite is where Ultimate was, this current manchild shell of 616 Peter is going nowhere.
>>156245886That reveal in OWUD was retarded though. It's like they couldn't think of a reason for him to actually be taken down by the heroes so they through in a heinously evil curveball that makes no sense. That event was so dogshit
>>156246151OWUD was classic silly character assassinating 'fuck we wrote ourselves into a corner' rushed ending shit. It ran more on vibes and intriguing covers than actual substance.
>>156228451Damn spider cuck fans are hella stupid, how many times are you falling for the same bait trick before you learn the fucking lesson, they outright hate you.
>>156246137>Peter can be whatever age he needs to be for a story. It's fiction, not linear.That’s not how ongoing comic books work
>>156246137>Right now the audience appetite is where Ultimate wasOh you mean where the family thing was just empty window dressing and Peter’s own kid is already Spider-boy?
>>156246295Nta, but if that's not how they work, then why is it suddenly ok to retcon 20 years of b-plots and MJ scenes to not have taken place? Why is it ok to remove development but not reinstate it? Why is it ok to stagnate a character and have them never age or develop when that robs any stakes or change from ever occurring with a character that is built upon coming of age which fundamentally involves growing amounts of responsibility over time and growing up to meet that?
I heard all OMD supporters and anti-marriage people are fags and trannies.
getting a temp sales bump over teasing your readers that things might get better and then they never actually get better
>>156246340Look at this 19 year old salt and seethe.
>>156228451>a #1 with multiple variants including a 1:200 variant and blind bags outsold Superman #25!!Marvelfags really celebrating a #1 needing a 1:200 variant and a blind bag to sell more than a title that is on issue 25 (a number marvel can barely get to these days btw) that is lucky to sell 150k on a good month.
>>156236634Honestly, you could keep MJ in, and still have him be a great character.Like you said, the main thing is that he was created specifically to cuck Peter.They should have just had Peter/MJ break up, then have MJ trapped in the alternate dimension, and she comes back hooked up with Paul. And then she and Paul are sent off to live their lives, and we only see them once in a blue moon, as cameos or for a short arc or whatever.Paul being so shit is partly the same problem with MJ. They keep rubbing her existence and her not being with Pete in our faces over and over and over and FUCKING OVER again.Just rip the bandaid off. Have her hook up with someone, and send her off into limbo.
>>156229596Often, but not Always.
>>156247048No anon.That might take some of the whiplash from Spencer affirming their everlasting love at the end of his run to the start of Wells, but that's still the Dead Language merrygoround character assassination of MJ dating someone she never would because the writers need something to happen. Because they are trying to fulfill Brevoorts bizarre misadventure making her the next Betty by marrying her off.It's not going to happen, the entire IP has moved on around them. She's the endgame, they are not even the last japanese soldier, they are a deluded geriatric GI strapped to the gurney. They actually pull that gun and they are officially out of step with where the rest of the IP with its money and recognition is, and having to fill that hole with a thousand Shays.Paul as some atoning high concept might work in your head, but execution is all that matters. And it went as well as the Hindenburg. You don't care about someone who kills a planet playing house, these things do not compute. Paul was the unexploded bomb of the Brevoort BND office finally going off, and it going as gracefully as a bomb would.Everything about it and this idiotic era of regression to some mythic youth that rejects it and doesn't recognize it needs to recognized in office as the the audience does, a failure.
>>156246370Look at 19 years lack of growth in salted earth and shitpost.
>>156228451It has a blind bag so the real question is, why doesn't marvel just make EVERY issue have a blind bag? It's proven to be the only thing that works for them
>>156232839What I find funny is Spiderfags collectively refuse to do the one thing that would really tell marvel they want the marriage back: ignore the fucking book. Stop spending money on the book and stop giving the book free advertising on social media every time a new issue comes out. Even enough Batfags finally relented and stopped buying the book after 80 or so issues into King's run and made it drop below Ewing's Hulk for a little while and that was enough for DC to finally kick him off and relegate him to an easily ignored Batman/Catwoman maxi.
>>156248469>why doesn't marvel just make EVERY issue have a blind bag? It's proven to be the only thing that works for themBecause the last time they went full-hog on something like that, it caused a bubble and crashed the market in the 90s
>>156228451Marvelchads, we're BACK!
>>156248806>ignore the fucking bookThey're not sentient enough to do that.
>>156228493>Literally everyone who isn't someone approaching or past 40 (and then it's a minority among them) think OMD was a good ideawhere do you see this?
>>156248806Those aren't spiderfags. They aren't fans. They are subhuman whales totally subsumed by sunk cost fallacy or speculators who prop it up because of financial gains on variants or tasteless faggots who think owning a variant and ignoring the book inside is respectful or valid when just downloading the hi-res images of the variants is better.
