Well, the show's finished. Final episode was a bit clumsy in its construction. I've seen multiple people accuse the show of being held up purely on the performances of Paul Bettany and James Spader, and they're justified in the last episode, at least. It's also funny to me how they're trying to cram in Doomsday teasers at the last possible moment. First in that Endgame re-release, now here. Just face the music that you fucked up in establishing Doom. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the scenes of Doom abducting Banner and Wanda were just plucked straight out of the movie.
>>156260017>I've seen multiple people accuse the show of being held up purely on the performances of Paul Bettany and James SpaderI'm one of them.Also I doubt you need spoiler anything, everyone talks about it and completely ignore the ending of Vision Quest. Marvel execs are a bunch of retarded faggot, they completely killed the ending momentum with that clip of doom and no one is even discussing the ending.
I still don't get why Ultron looks like that guy.
>>156260017The show is held up by both the performances and whenever it's embracing sci-fi weird stuff of Vision, especially in how the AI mindscape is portrayed. But it's dragged down by the superhero shit (the fight scenes, the Young Avengers setups, the save the world/city from nanomachines plot) Daredevil remains the only Marvel show that has decent action.Like how WandaVision elevated Wanda and Vision's relationship from a random plot device from the movies, I thought VisionQuest really elevated Ultron as a character. I'm also glad they were creative with the final showdown after everyone complained how WV's finale was handled.
>>156260699>I still don't get why Ultron looks like that guy.To make AI work they scanned their minds, Ultron was retconned to be based on Horton's mindscan. Did you even pay attention?
>>156260819all the evidence I can find is a mention at the beginning of the last episode with him saying that "they'd all carry pieces of them when they mapped their minds", which is still a very finnicky explanation as to why ultron specifically decided to look and sound like him. but anyway, this whole retcon about AI's being based on some person is retarded, doesn't make much of a difference
>>156260838>this whole retcon about AI's being based on some person is retardedisn't this how every AI in Marvel Comics works?at least the Ultron, Vision, Jocosta onesso it's less of retcon and more reuseing comic lore
>>156260699They were too cheap to cgi Ultron the whole time
>>156261128relatively to the MCU, it is a retcon. Especially for Ultron which theoretically was engineered in a lab with the help the mindstone. but alas they needed some excuse to save budget >>156261141quite frankly resembling real people bears no impact on the plot whatsoever outside of maybe jocasta
>>156260616Isn't this what people wanted though? For the MCU to start teasing stuff that directly mattered instead of random storylines that went nowhere (like Zeus sending Hercules down to Earth to start teaching humanity to fear Gods again in L&T)?
>>156261204teasing mattering or not depends only on how well the thing they follow performed. the last thor movie was cancer and everybody hated it so anything related to it will be as ignored as possible. if thor wasn't one of the few characters people still care about it would be retconned out of existenceback to my point, slapping a random tease for doomsday at the end of this is gay and dumb for the reasons I listed
>>156261239It's smart if they're trying to build up hype for Doomsday. Within the context of the show itself, it's fine since literally one of the final scenes was Vision bringing up the possibility that Wanda may still be alive so it's appropriate to place the reveal in the end credits.
>>156260838>all the evidence I can find is a mention at the beginning of the last episode with him sayingLast episode outright show him scanning his mind with Jo. What more do you need?
Feel like the last episode could have elaborted a bit more with what happened between Jo and Horton. When she said "I remember everything" I was hoping she would give an explanation on what happened that made her now repulsed at him.Can't just be him turning her into a machine. Also I do'nt really buy Jo saying "It was meant to heal people" when she had just used the nanomachine to puppet around Tommy's girlfriend.It really feel like the last episode was either rushed or there were direction disagreement that couldn't be reconciliated.Also, I am sorry about being That Guy, but I refuse to believe Ultron couldn't have used his swarm to fix Jocasta's body. Either you make a processor-shot which kill her instantly, or you don't make the person who care about her out of magic-nano-machine can form a whole functioning body.
>>156260017>I've seen multiple people accuse the show of being held up purely on the performances of Paul Bettany and James SpaderI'm confused at the implication there was any further proof needed for this idea when the PENULTIMATE episode was literally multiple Bettanys and Spaders walking around the show acting at each other.>>156261204Too little, too late, fucker.Too little, too late.
>>156260017Spader and Bettany made the show. It was the show about those two featuring some fun times with the paladin. It was probably among the more watchable marvel shows.
>>156261516>Too little, too late, fucker.Is it? Doomsday may unironically make $3 billion.
>>156260704>the Young Avengers setupsThematically and narratively it made sense to include the twins but god it seemed like they completely handed off decisions and direction to a B-team for everything on Tommy's side from the casting to the scripts. Vision's side of things was heavily carried by Betanny and Spader so it landed closer to good than mid but everything was offputtingly bad on junior's end. Last time I watched something with such distinctly contrasting halves qualitywise was Foundation where you'd get peak Cleonkino hooking you in while having to put up with DEI Foundationdreck in between scenes of emperor Piemaker and his brothers and sexbot.Also that Doom stinger was pretty much unnecessary at this point. Anyone vaguely interested in MCUshit were already expecting her. Feels like the only one nobody expects to show up is Captain Marvel.
>>156261681>in while having to put up with DEI FoundationdreckBEI is a meaningless complain. If you could articulate why you di'nt like Tommys part without mentioning what group he belong to, I am sure you can explain why you didn't like that Foundation without making reference to characters belonging to a minority group or whatever.
>>156261681It make sense to have a glimpse of the whereabouts of Wanda, as she is the last remaining bit of the family.
>>156261791Secret Wars is also going to thematically tie back to WandaVision, the first entry in the Multiverse Saga, in having Doom create a fake reality where he brainwashes everyone to larp in his medieval fantasy world.
Shouldn't have given Ulton a sympathetic reason to try and kill humanity again, after Jocasta got blasted he should've just shrugged and said he can make another.
>>156261679If I gave a shit about profitability I'd say Hazbin Hotel is the best show in the world, I mean in terms of me giving a shit. VisionQuest was fun, but propped up by Bettany and Spader, and I don't need more of it. I have zero optimism for the MCU at large.
>>156260017It so frustrating this show took so long to be made. With how it thematically ties into the content and ideas of Wandavision the whole TV MCU should have been Wandavision into Visionquest and Daredevil. Don't fuck around with other things just do these because the longer format works for them and 2 of the shows are being meta about TV itself.
>>156261900Nah his speech when he went apeshit went hard
>>156261910It's doubly frustrating this show felt the need to shoehorn other AIs as dumb gag characters alongside Vision and Ultron, when this was always their show.
>>156261912Well yeah he's a good actor, I just would've liked to see all the shit they built up for their love be a one sided farce to manipulate Jocasta.
>>156261926Weirdly I actually think it's in-character for Ultron to have been mostly sincerely in love. He was kind of way more of a dumbass in Age of Ultron itself, he grabbed Natasha just to have someone to monologue at and threw a tantrum when the Avengers were hijacking his cargoThis Ultron's a lot more grown up and less incoherent about his goals, but I think it's fair that there's still a lot of genuine passion in him.
>>156261961>This Ultron's a lot more grown up and less incoherent about his goalsUltron's goal have always been coherent and almost spelled out to the audience. I don't know why so many meme that they don't understand it.
What’s Ultron gonna do now that he’s essentially flying grey goo and has all of Horton’s assets? Well, that is to say what’s the MCU gonna do with him? He’ll build a family for himself of course. It’s what Ultrons do. Sending him into space seems almost trite at this point.
>>156261753You just need to watch Foundation to see why describing the Foundation side of the story as DEIshit suffices. It's so blatantly apparent they dumped their activists into working on that side of the series that it's an acceptable trade-off so they don't mess with the Cleon half of the show. Why else would you slow down scenes so heavily by making the superfluous chief of the foundation in S3 a deaf mute that everyone else has to communicate in hands signals with whenever he's in a scene or turn the season twist into a retarded as fuck ocean's twelve tier keikaku when the character involved worked just fine prior to the reveal? Both completely unnecessary and obviously detrimental to the story but no somebody had to virtue signal how progressive they were at the cost of decent storytelling. I didn't even use DEI to describe Tommy's side of the story, just that it was overall shit. Everything from the acting, dialogue, setting and narrative logic was at best clumsy, par for the course for post Thanos MCUshit really. Vision's side as a story itself was mid but like I said Betanny and Spader carried it hard and it also helped the more interesting scenework were found there. Thinking about it, there really was not a single standout scene for Tommy production or direction-wise.
>>156262031Honestly kinda wished Ultron went back and did the "suit of armor around the world" thing, finally circling back to his og purpose, especially now that tony is dead (yes ik doom is rdj but in-universe I mean)
>>156262247>You just need to watch Foundation to see why describing the Foundation side of the story as DEIshit suffices.No, it doesn't.>I didn't even use DEI to describe Tommy's side of the storyThat was my point.
>>156262346No you really do just need to watch it. The first season wasn't as bad with the DEI motivated changes and the protagonists for the Foundation side of the story were fine then but that took a steep nosedive in season 2 and further so into season 3 to present it as the more "virtuous" faction. I can't think of another work with such sharp disparities in story quality as that one and so much of it stems from blatantly DEI motivated elements. I don't wanna get deep into critcisms of another show in a dead mcu show thread so here's what gemini pulls out on the show for your reference. It's implicit but even from this you can make out where the show's problems lies. Still a great show though and worth watching just for the piemaker's story and abs.
>>156262843>he first season wasn't as bad with the DEI motivated changesThere is that word again. Completely meaningless.Also, the TV adpatation change so much of the plot compared to the book that any complain about "DEI change" means nothing.
>>156260017>Doom abducting BannerIn which tv series happened this
>>156263135It's in the additional part of the End Game Theatrical re-release.
>>156260017Any webm requests?
>>156263484Ultron going off to take a shit.
>>156261681>Foundation mentionedsex with demrezel
you have been trying to make a VisionQuest thread float for weeks.
>>156263518
>>156262914Okay then. Pray tell why would you make a character deaf and mute in a show where he is just there to fill a background role but accommodating that lack of speech drags out a scene with subtitled dead air for several minutes at multiple points in the season? Iirc he wasn't even a psychic, just an old muggle in charge, and his handicap didn't even play into any other part of the story except to interact with him specificly. For what bloody reason would you incorporate that into your tv show?>>156263518Even if she comes back full on clanker?
>>156262843>I can't think of another work with such sharp disparities in story quality as that one and so much of it stems from blatantly DEI motivated elements.Arrowverse
>Webm of Jocosta crawlingWhy can't she be rebuilt?
>>156263652Are you suggesting it was ever good? We aren't talking about Flash S1 here. Or Gotham which was a bit more even in its mixed bag.
>>156261900>Jocasta got blastedThey literally established processing speed at quantum level few minutes before that and bitch couldn't dodge?
>>156263634And that's how Ultron survived, nanite turd backup. Very King Piccolo of him.
>>156263667>>Webm of Jocosta crawling
>>156260017>Thanos is set up by post credit scenes of mainstream box office hits>Doom is set up by post credit scenes in Disney+ shows no one is watching and special edition rereleases that few are going to
>>156263252Oh, I didn't bother with that shit, Endgame is a film from 2019, 7 years ago, dissney must be desesperate if they re-release endgame again in big 2026.It is like saying "all the stuff from 2019 to 2026 doesn't count, please come back to see the avengers again please."
>>156263637>why would you make a character deaf and muteThere is no reason not to.
>>156263765Doom actually appeared in Fantastic Four.
>>156263846It's literally just the same film but with new post-credits scenes that tie in to Doomsday.
>>156263637maybeit will probably be shit now that dusk has gone crazyno more cleonkino
>>156260838I mean they pretty explicitly went out of their way to showcase all of the AIs being based on real people. Fitting them into a semi chronological timeline:> Horton and Jo Carrington scanned their brains in to create the original "AI". >tech was sold off to Stark Industries - Tony worked on the JARVIS AI and modeled it after his original family butler, Edwin Jarvis.>Ultron later creates Vision from JARVIS' AI. However, the appearance of Vision ended up looking like Jim Hammond>Stark later makes FRIDAY based off Happy Hogan's mother who was Howard's secretary, and then later EDITH who was based off of Howard's crash tester.Vision apparently gathered all these AIs to help him out, including the trapped data for Ultron and pooled them all together into his virtual house. Ultron was the only one who didn't know, and probably "defaulted" to Horton.Jocasta obviously took the appearance of Jo.DUM-E and U are the only two who didn't really have an explanation, probably default looks. Just like other bots online have defaults.
>>156264023Respond to the full statement please:>Pray tell why would you make a character deaf and mute in a show where he is just there to fill a background role but accommodating that lack of speech drags out a scene with subtitled dead air for several minutes at multiple points in the season? I'd have less of a problem if it served a purpose but it didn't.>>156264081Nah. I'm sure there's still ways they can fit Cleons in a kino way. For all we know Cleons could be so genetically superior their genes overrides the mother's genes entirely.
>>156264313Again, there is no reason for a filler character to not be mute.
>>156264340Address the part where it only drags out the scene in awkward silence. The problem isn't the inclusion but the reason for it at the expense of the storytelling.
>>156264283>AIs are brain scans based on real peopleSomeone draw Vision and Ultron as Caine and Bubble.
>>156264313bro the cleons are suffering from their dna degradingi'll settle for terrence mann kino tho
>>156264283>>Stark later makes FRIDAYFriday was on the ready after Jarvis was destroyed. Friday and other AIs were probably created before Ultron.
>>156264383>Address the part where it only drags out the scene in awkward silence.It's no different than interacting with a mute in real life. It doesn't drag on, it's just normal.
>>156263637>Okay then. Pray tell why would you make a character deaf and mute in a show where he is just there to fill a background role but accommodating that lack of speech drags out a scene with subtitled dead air for several minutes at multiple points in the season? Iirc he wasn't even a psychic, just an old muggle in charge, and his handicap didn't even play into any other part of the story except to interact with him specificly. For what bloody reason would you incorporate that into your tv show?The actor was deaf mute irl so the character also had to be
Why is this thread derailing from VisionQuest to Foundation?
>>156264507>>156264532It's a tv show. Flow is important. They didn't have to cast a deaf mute in the role and they would have had to go out of their way to do so. What would motivate such a decision?>>156264548Started out with some snowflake objecting to me criticising Foundation for making choices for DEI reasons at the expense of the storytelling by being obtuse about the usage of the label.
>>156264548because demrezel sexorobots I guess
fuck forgot my webm
>>156264586>They didn't have to cast a deaf muteDoesn't mean it's they weren't forbidden either.And it doesn't break the flow, it's just how a conversation normally go with a deaf mute. Just because you personally aren't used to it doesn't me it's bad pacing. All that matter is that it reflect a realistic conversation.
>>156264745>And it doesn't break the flow, it's just how a conversation normally go with a deaf mute. Just because you personally aren't used to it doesn't me it's bad pacing. All that matter is that it reflect a realistic conversation.Yeah yeah. Jesus fucking christ. Criticise a fictional show for its bad storytelling decisions in an anonymous mongolian throat singing forum and you somehow still get a bluesky snowflake making it about their own virtue.
>>156263484bump
>>156264843>Criticise a fictional show for its bad storytelling decisionsAgain, you have failed to establish that this specific aspect was bad story-telling, so no, that's not what you are getting called out for.>snowflake making it about their own virtue.There is no such valid critic as "virtue signalling". The word you are looking for is "Hypocrisy", but unlike virtue signalling, hypocrisy has to actually be proven.
I thought Olsen didn't want to play Wanda anymore, why'd they being her back
>>156266239Go$h, it'$ a my$tery.
