Board Certified Master Arborist and Qualified Tree Risk Assessor here, AMA.Lets please not turn this thread into a chainsaw/ tree cutting dick measuring contest, we have enough of those. Lets focus on the plants. Pic related is a girdling root I removed from an eastern white pine located on a residential property. My question for you guys is on chisel sharpening. I use a few different size chisels to remove roots like this, but they obviously get dull frequently using them down in the soil near rocks and such. I don't want to put the effort in sharpening them like I do my nice chisels in the wood shop because these get beat up constantly. Right now i just use a flat file from my chainsaw sharpening kit. any better ideas?
>>2989977after
>>2989978Improper mulching is a common cause of this. please don't mulch around the trunk of your trees, its probably the most common reason for tree decline and death that I see in the landscape. Mulching trees is highly recommended, but it should only be a layer about 2"- 4" deep, not piled around the trunk. The larger the diameter of the mulch ring, the better.
how do i kill aspens
>>2989990Mature trees or sprouts from trees that were previously cut down?
I ripped out 2 large elm stump and roots using an axe, sledge, pry bars, and 2 wedges. Just dig up a section and wedge the fuck out of it until something gives.
>>2990001both
>>2990133>>2989990You will be battling poplars for ever. They are rhizomes any little piece of root will sprout a full tree. I'm currently dealing with silver poplars and they have many, many sucker roots. I'm digging them up and ripping them out, but I'm also fully rescaping my yard.
i too am a BCMA + TRAQ; did you get emails re:urban/municipal forestry and the utility forestry exam reworks? i thought they were both trivially easy and not really indicative of urban and utility arboricultureeither way, what do you do specifically for work? I'm in the union in california and currently make $69.49/hr, though that will soon increase to ~$77+/hr if the current contract gets approved
is it ok if a tree well fills with water sometimes?
>>2989977are douglas fir planer shavings fine for mulch? seems to be doing okay around one of my lemon trees
>>2990229hopefully the lemonwhores won't steal my lemons
>>2990133As >>2990134 has said, Aspens spread prolifically from their root system after being cut down as a stress/ survival response. If the large mature trees aren't near any structures, and would be safe to kill as they stand, a "hack and squirt"would be the preferred method. Cutting the tree down and the applying herbicide to the stump won't be sufficient to stop the root sprouts. Cut a ring around the tree at an angle down into thenewest few growth rings and apply an herbicide with the active ingredient Triclopyr, with some sort of surfactant added to draw it into the wood. Once the tree is stone dead, it can be removed. As for any sprouts you're already dealing with, cut at the base and apply the same product according to the label. I don't have much experience with Aspens because they're not common in my area, but this is how I deal with tree of heaven, which spreads via Rhizomes like Aspen do. Keep in mind there's a good chance that the surrounding Aspens have grafted their root systems together, so any herbicide applications will be likely to affect neighboring trees. If there are desirable trees close to the ones you treat, a trench should be dug around the root zone to isolate the desirable tree from the roots of the trees being treated with herbicide
>>2990219Depends on the species. Generally I would say that's going to be a problem. I assume the tree well is below the surrounding grade? Serious drainage issues can lead to root decay pathogens, the roots being starved of oxygen, and potentially tree stability issues as a result of the former. I would try to improve surrounding drainage to channel water away from the well.
>>2990229As long as the wood wasn't treated it should work well. Keep an eye on soil ph, lots of mulch from conifer species can acidify the soil over time. Citrus trees prefer acidic soil though generally so I don't think that will be a major issue for you. Just watch the shavings don't compress down into a thick mat that water cant penetrate, I've seen sawdust left out in the weather act like that. May be a good idea to mix the shavings with leaf litter or some wood chips before applying as mulch to keep that from happening.
>>2990229>>2990255Also, ensure you aren't mulching right up against the the trunk of the tree, for reasons listed at beginning of thread
>>2990139I did see that they are changing "municipal specialist" to "urban Forestry professional" or something like that. I don't hold either of those certs, I've been looking at getting the urban Forestry cert as resume fodder. I assume you do line work? I talked to some guys who work out in cali doing utility consulting when I got my CTSP and they said the money was really good. I'm in the mid Atlantic doing residential arb. Mostly IPM work these days just to get the experience. I'm trying to get more into doing risk assessments, and general consulting work. I've never done any utility work and am happy to keep it that way lol.
>>2989977Why is this lemon tree so gay? I didn't even know it was a lemon tree until I found one shitty lemon growing on it.
>>2990266Most of my fruit tree experience is with apples. Too cold for citrus where I live. The tree needs pruning though, which should help with fruit production.Prune those vigorous sprouts with thorns on them off, they are coming from the root stock below the graft and won't produce fruit. Remove any dead and broken branches, thin branches out throughout the canopy, focusing on crossing, rubbing, and poorly attached branches. Anything growing back into the canopy, or branches growing parallel to each other. Let more light and air flow through the canopy. Reduce the length of any over extended branches to help better support the weight of heavy fruit. I think lemons will set fruit on new growth, so removing too much of the fresh growth will remove any potential flower buds. Best to do an aggressive prune in late winter.
>>2990257yeah, it's probably not even 2" of shavings, no sawdust included. i check it every now and then and it's still quite fluffy. san diego doesn't rain and no issues with irrigation. i guess that's awesome if it'll acidify the soil + lemons like it though. was hard to find info online, most people talk about southern yellow pine and not fir
>>2990266like >>2990269 said you gotta prune that shit. picrel is pretty good on the subject as is cass turnbull's guide to pruning, though the latter is written by a woman which is very apparent in the rambling and random context switching
>>2990269Ty. So ideally I should only have a single trunk, correct? All the smaller ones should get cut at the base? With trees that have much larger secondary trunks is it still okay to just remove them? I got my place with like 10 fruit trees and they're all in need of some aggressive pruning, but I'm kinda scared to do it. The plum and apricot trees are quite big and have some 2"+ secondaries.
Can I grow a cherry blossom tree in soil that has drainage issues or will it drown? Could I plant it in a raised bed of sorts?
>>2990259the union work is basically just looking at the trees near the power lines, no actual tree work besides measuring them etc.pretty chill but less flexible than running your own business etc
>>2990134>>2990252theyre not that big, kind shrubby biggest is probably 8' tall, 4-5" diameter trunk but they sprout up e v e r y w h e r e except the lawn for some reasonthinking of renting a mini ex and digging all the big ones out and planting nicer trees in their stead and just keeping up with pulling up the shoots in the spring but yeah idk they make me crazy especially when i find them near the foundationsi really dont want to turn my whole property into lawn
>>2990326I had it explained to me from an arborist we hired to fix our trees. The tree is experiencing some sort of trauma. This can be a fungus, insects, or simply lack of water. And poplars need A LOT of water, so this is most likely. When they experience this trauma they send out shallow roots that grow suckers in an attempt to find a better area to grow. Maybe you have a healthy lawn that prevents the roots from getting enough water? I just wait for the suckers to surface then I dig them up with a mattock and pull out anything I can find attached to it. We spent $1800 treating 2 very large poplar and 1 crab apple tree and the amount of suckers hasn't decreased, even with daily watering. So if not a tree you want, just rip em out.
>>2989990this but bamboo
>>2990278Fruit tree pruning is an art and science by itself. There's no one correct way to do it. Center leader and open center are 2 common structures that are popular. Your goal for pruning should be to develop a well spaced framework for future growth. Most fruit trees, especially if they are well established on their growing site, handle aggressive pruning very well, don't be afraid to hit them hard, especially if you wait until they're dormant.(Or as close to dormant as they get in your climate)This video showcases an apple, but the principal of the structure you're trying to develop is the same.https://youtu.be/p_-f610rFEU?si=iKmcziEvOH8g3oTD
>>2990292How are the hours doing that? Are you on the road a lot? I value my work life balance quite a bit.
>>2990291Most flowering cherries that I'm aware of won't do well in soil that's constantly saturated. Unless you're ok with doing quite a bit of earthwork to improve drainage in that area significantly, it's probably cheaper and easier to just consider a different species that will appreciate the wet feet.
>>2990401appreciate the insight
>>29903997am to 3:30pm M-Fno travelall OT is double time$50/day per diem25% bonus if you elect not to enroll in the benefits (bonus is for you to find your own insurance and invest etc. rather than have whatever stuff the company offers)
im gonna buy a cherry tree today
>>2990398I want to plant a hedgerow of fruit trees around the perimeter of my yard. I was planning on 4 ft spacing, thoughts?
>>2991125Not OP but that is going to be very dependent on root stock and other factors limiting ultimate tree size.Taking apples you'd want to look towards very dwarfing root stocks.Are they going to be free standing or are you going for an espalier or cordon?With the right management they can be quite productive.
>>2989980So...do it it like in the pic or not do it like in the pic?
>>2990650>$50/day per diemNot OP and dumb question, but what does that go towards?
>>2989977Hey op, how would you deal with a dead tree that is broken about 25 feet up? I have a chain saw and a lawn tractor at my disposal.
>>2992381not him but its just untaxed bonus money for food or whatever
>>2992381some places it means they will literally cover $50 worth of expenses after you submit a receipt, so if you buy $55 worth of food they will give you $50at my job it means that i just get $50 for "free" every time i show up to work regardless if I buy anything or not$250 per week ($300 if working saturday)$1000 per monthuntaxed
>>2989977Can I save a tree from over watering?It's newly planted and it's been raining like crazy so the leaves turned yellow
>>2992392toss rope overtie bowline around rope in order to secure it to the dead portion hung up in the airdeflect rope around another tree (preferably with a block/pulley to not damage the rope)tie to lawn tractorpull it over safely from a distanceproceed with removing the remaining portion if it could fall on an area that people travel, otherwise leave the remaining standing dead portion to decay naturally and provide wildlife habitat
>>2992468Thanks op. How dangerous would you say dead standing trees are? This is right beside my barn along with 2-3 other similarly aged dead trees. My fear is they will decay and topple on me while working outside.
>>2992468Also, another question. I recently purchased a 12 inch DeWalt 60c electric chainsaw, are normal class B leg protectors enough? I'm experienced with all sort of power tools (tradie) but never had to use a chainsaw, recent neglected land owner. I have a face shield I use at work too (ANSI full face shield) and helmet. Any other gear I should consider? Am I over thinking safety? >Why 12 inch Most of the trees I need to manage are really small in very dense areas, toppled young spruce and cedars mostly. >16 inch bar I can easily convert this to a 12 or 16 inch bar to apparently reduce how close the kickback zone is to my cutting. Worth it?
>>2992510Many typos, I meant 60v DeWalt not 60c and a 14-16 inch bar instead of 12. Typing while I walk my dog.
>>2989977>I don't want to put the effort in sharpening them like I do my nice chisels in the wood shop because these get beat up constantly. Right now i just use a flat file from my chainsaw sharpening kit. any better ideas?i'm a finish carpenter. i have two types of chisels, those that i sharpen on my edge pro and they are razor sharp, then the others i sharpen with a belt sander. the belt sander ones are the ones that get abused. if you are hitting your chisels on small rocks and shit with trees like that, just get cheap ones and use the belt sander and then a flat stone to get the burr off. for the work you show here, i would use an oscillating multitool to get the brunt of the work done. more expensive considering you will go through a few blades, but much faster. the milwaukee 18v fuel is what i use and i have had multiple people i work with switch to it after using it. cut two channels and knock it out with the chisel. rinse repeat.
>>2992510>Am I over thinking safety?i've run chainsaws a bit, lived with my uncle a few years and he heated with wood so summer was cut down trees and split wood time. i'm also a carpenter so i do run saws professionally. chainsaw safety comes down to thinking about what you are about to do, the pressure on the piece you are cutting, whether the end is supported or unsupported, which direction the tree will fall, and positioning yourself and the saw so that dumb shit doesn't happen. like with other saw accidents, most of your problems will happen when you are trying to go fast or do things you know you shouldn't. most newer saws have good safety features. chaps are great if you are cutting low stuff around your legs, but i think it's more important to think about where your leg is relative to the saw and where the saw will be when you finish the cut. also where the tree or branch might push the saw when you finish the cut. if you have spatial awareness and think about what is going to happen during and after the cut, the most important protection you really need is hearing and eye protection.
>>2992510>apparently reduce how close the kickback zone is to my cuttingdon't cut with the tip of the bar and you will rarely ever deal with kickback. cut with the flat part of the bar. using the tip is advanced shit for people who do this stuff everyday and see a plunge cut as advantageous.
>>2992380Sorry I should have made that a bit more clear. Like pic related. previous pic is what not to do. Mulch shouldn't contact the trunk or root flare. Mulch should be 2"-4" deep and as wide as practical. >>2992508It's a hard thing to judge, on the one hand, the longer they stay dead, the more likely they are to dry out and crumble apart in small pieces until there's not much left. on the other hand, the longer they stay standing dead, the more dangerous they are to work on and manipulate to get down safely and predictably. Species plays a big role. in general, if they threaten human life or infrastructure, its better to do something sooner rather than later. They only become more dangerous to work on with time. >>2992510You can't overthink safety! I can't give you an answer on class b chaps being adequate or not. I think most chaps are rated based on chainsaw engine CC's, so battery saws are hard to compare. I've also seen some anecdotal evidence that the new battery saws, due to their massive torque, and lack of a traditional clutch, are tending to cut right through a lot of chaps. I would do your own research, and make your own risk assessment. There's no replacement for proper saw handling techniques. >>2991125Like the other anon says, weather or not this spacing will be adequate will depend greatly on the variety of tree planted, and the commitment to ongoing maintenance that can be realistically committed. As I've eluded to, I have some experience with fruit trees in a non-commercial context, and I personally don't have any fruit trees on my property because I know the amount of maintenance both in pruning, and in pest and disease management they require to be productive to my standards. Totally not trying to dissuade you, there have just been a lot of fruit tree questions in this thread and I think that they are typically underestimated.
>>2992539>I've also seen some anecdotal evidence that the new battery saws, due to their massive torque, and lack of a traditional clutch, are tending to cut right through a lot of chaps.those are the professional saws made by husqvarna and stihl, the dewalt is still a perfectly capable saw, but it doesn't have the balls that the $1k+ systems have.
>>2992392>>2992510Well, given that this is /diy/ I'll spare you the "call a professional" spiel and just assume that you will take any advice given here as just a supplement to your already existing set of skills. The setup the other anon described is good. The key takeaway to keep in mind here are that you don't want to be under this as much as possible. That's why having the rope tied to it, and then redirected around another tree (preferably with a pulley to minimize friction) is ideal here. Hard to see in the pic how well attached that broken out top is, if the fibers are still well attached, your garden tractor may run out of weight/traction/power before it can pull it off the stem. If there is any risk of this hitting your structures if it doesn't go how you plan, you need to be confident in your machines ability to budge it loose. You want to be able to not only pull it free, but pull it free and run with it. A 4wd pickup may be a better option if that's available. Plan B would be to have a rope in it, make a face cut on the trunk, make a back cut, leaving a significant hinge, and then pulling. The more pulling power the better. You can do a lot with just ropes and pulleys. look into how to setup a 5:1 system.
>>2992466As always, species will play a big role here. If the planting site is sitting extremely wet, and not draining, it may not be suitable for that tree. Yellowing leaves is a symptom of over watering, but the actual problem here isn't actually the water, It's the lack of oxygen in the soil due to it being saturated. Over watering is actually a pretty common reason for newly transplanted trees to die, however that's usually because the homeowner drowns them thinking that they are doing the right thing for the tree watering it. You're saying that this is due to significant rainfall. This makes me skeptical this is something you will have a lot of control over at this point. Best thing you could do besides the wait and see approach, would be to till the soil around the tree, not directly where the roots are because its a new transplant, down to a depth of around 6"-10" and mix compost and 'bio-char'(you can find this at garden centers, I like the chunky stuff over the powder) into the surrounding soil. This will de-compact the soil, and hopefully improve drainage. Obviously avoid additional irrigation until after the soil has had time to dry out. Add a 2"-4" thick layer of mulch over the entire cultivated area. >>2992514Thanks! I do use one of those multi-tools for the more exposed roots and it works great, especially for cutting straight through the fibers where i can knock out the waste with a chisel. but sometimes the chisels are necessary when doing more precision cutting where i don't want to risk damage to the surrounding trunk tissue.
>>2992541yeah I don't have any experience with any battery saws(I want one) so I'm just throwing that out there. I've also seen a 661 cut straight though a pair of arborwear chainsaw pants and into the operators knee without skipping a beat, so I'm just not entirely confident in chainsaw chaps in a lot of scenarios. To be fair the top of the bar is what made contact with the chaps(he was flush cutting a large stump on his knees), so the saw didn't have the opportunity to pull the fibers into the sprocket, it just shot them straight off the tip of the bar. Obviously that was the worst case scenario and i don't think those pants were necessarily rated for a saw that powerful, but I still think they add a false sense of security for a lot of people. That being said I still wear them when I run saws for anything more that cutting up a couple downed branches in my yard.
>>2992510this anon>>2992519 also speaks the truth. People get so caught up in chainsaw safety, which is critical, but it so important to not forget the massive stored energy you're potentially releasing when you cut a piece of wood. Gravity is working 100% of the time. sometimes it's working in your favor, more often than not its working against you, whats important is the ability to predict what is going to happen when you make a cut. What the tree or log does when you cut it is frequently more dangerous than the chainsaw itself. If you go on YouTube and watch one of the many "chainsaw fails compilation" videos, you will note that the majority of the featured videos are not people cutting themself with chainsaws, but being struck by or striking an object with a tree they cut.
>>2990130I'll always have an appreciation for people like you. I feel like I'm a hard worker and have done a lot of shitty jobs. I would just simply never attempt this.
>>2992575i guess my brain is fried because your image reminded me of this
>>2992560>yeah I don't have any experience with any battery saws(I want one)i got the husqvarna 542i XP and it's ridiculously powerful. i normally run a 550 XP mk2, and i still do, but the electric one is so handy and quiet and powerful. debating trying out one of the bigger ones.
>>2992578leave it to the krauts
>>2992519>>2992521>>2992539>>2992547>>2992571Thank you for all the great advice guys. First of all, yes I think I will be opting for either a pickup truck or my neighbors tractor to pull the top of the tree down, I think the worst thing I can do is pull it a little bit not fully and not have safe access to the area because my lawn tractor wasn't sufficient. Second, I have an arborist visiting tomorrow, I may have them down one of the trees closest to my barn and use it as a cost of learning thing, I assume I'll be out $200-$400 but be able to get advice and a walk around of my 5 acres and their local knowledge. I have to make a wind break was the front of the lot and having a local rant about what will live will likely save me a lot of money in the long run.
i planted 2 hardware store japanese plums last year one is santa rosa and i cant remember the other one and i dont know which is whichone is doing very well, tall growing blossomingthe other got ravaged by animals and i didnt know if it was going to make it but it did sprout some weird hoirzontal leaves and looks like it could pull throughany tips to help it along? should i prune the branches with no growth?
>>2992613healthier one for posterity
>>2992613>>2992615looking up varities of plum im pretty sure the other one is shiroim guessing the less healthy one is the shiro but im really not sure i didnt think this through when i put then in the ground
>>2992547>plan btree dominoes is a stupid game with a stupid prize
>>2992619yeah its not ideal
>>2992619>>2992622Yeah I'm really nervous about making more than one not so big cut to just help it snap at the base instead of at some random spot. There is nothing around the tree for it to hit so - in the event the arborist is extremely expensive - I'll make a small cut on the side in the direction I'm going to pull, tie it to the hitch on my truck and just yoink it all down from a distance. The worst that could happen is the broken piece stays stuck up in the other tree, but I doubt it will based on its size.
>>2992433>>2992398Why doesn't the gov try and get their greasy mitts on that cash...like they do with tips?
>>2992571Is that shotty next to the chainsaw?
>>2992624If you go that route, ensure you have clear escape route planned out in the event something unexpected happens while you're cutting on the tree. Clear any brush and fallen limbs out of your work area first so you're not tripping over a bunch of debris while trying to evade a falling tree unexpectedly.
I have a large silver maple that constantly drops a fuckton of branches, one big one came down in a windstorm and destroyed my shed. I had it trimmed but I'm still worried it could cause more damage, what can I do with it?
>>2992692sawmill and /wwg/
>>2992689Pretty badass photo. I confirmed the visit tomorrow with the arborist. Anything that annoys you guys? How do I get this done for cheap? Told him I'd take care of anything once it's on the ground
>>2992625it is either considered for "food" which is generally untaxed, or a business expense which is also not taxed
>>2992711>anything that annoys you guys?half dead partially suspended trees, usually>how do i get this done for cheapchain around the tree + pulley + truck
>>2992711>Anything that annoys you guys? How do I get this done for cheap? Told him I'd take care of anything once it's on the groundA no clean up job is a good start, never met a tree guy who didn't like that. If you hire a professional, stay out of their way when they get to work, don't offer them advice, or mention to them how you had intended it do it. Admit you don't have the right equipment or skill-set, and acknowledge the hazardous situation that exists, they will respect you for that. The other thing that can help is if you're alright with some collateral damage to the surrounding trees, let them know that up front, most guys bid jobs based on how long they think it's going to take them, not necessarily how "dangerous" or "technical" it may be. If them cutting down an adjacent tree, or smashing small trees in the under-story makes their job easier, that's gonna help with the price. A lot of the "true" professionals will try to minimize damage to surrounding trees by default if they're real tree huggers. They're not even trying to over-complicate things or over charge, its just about respecting the clients property. They have probably been chewed out by picky clients in the past about destroying other plants during a removal, and don't even want to risk asking about whether that's acceptable for fear of scaring off a potential customer, so if that's something you don't give a shit about tell them up front, they will like that.
>>2992692Silver maples love to shed branches. They are also notoriously bad at compartmentalizing decay and often grow with poor structure. They're much better suited for the flood planes where they naturally grow. Targeted reduction pruning and properly installed support cables (if warranted) can keep those things at a tolerable risk level for quite some time. I would obviously recommend a qualified arborist preform a formal risk assessment to determine if anything can be done to mitigate risk below your tolerable threshold. Also worth mentioning that once a tree suffers a large branch failure, it changes the dynamics of how wind moves through it. Each individual tree grows and acclimatizes to the environment and typical wind it experiences on any given site. When that damping effect all those branches provide suddenly changes, either from pruning, or from a large limb breaking out in a storm, the tree is forced to experience wind loading in a way its not used to, and is more likely to fail again in the future. TL;DR- A tree that has had a limb failure in the past, is more likely to experience another one in the future.
just got a bunch of stuff for SRT climbing, but only got 120ft of vortex 1/2in line 24 braidis that enough or am i going to be fucked for learning with the shortest rope they sellfor reference i live in humboldt (redwoods)also any tips for climbing in general? looking to do it as a hobby, perhaps light pruning without rigging etc
>>2992899120' is definitely short for west coast climbing. You can make it work with some tricks, but that will definitely be limiting, and potentially dangerous. Absolutely keep a stopper knot at the end of your rope if you're in tall trees. In theory, climbing SRT with a 120' rope you can have a canopy anchor 120' off the ground, in practice that makes it a little tricky setting an anchor point that high from the ground without having any extra rope to play with. If you want to be able to retrieve your rope from any anchor point above 60' you're going to have to get a 2nd rope to use as a retrieval line. doesn't have to be an expensive climbing rope, I have a 120' length of 7mm accessory cord I use for a retrieval line. I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of 'The tree climbers companion' by Jeff Jepson, its like $15 on amazon, full of illustrations, knots, and techniques, an absolute must read, especially if you're going to forego any formal training. What gear did you get? I'm pretty knowledgeable about climbing gear and technique.
>>2992553It's a Chestnut tree the rain finally stopped and the soil driened just fine but it's still yellow I did the compost thing also added would chips to hopefully do something.
>>2993003Chinese chestnut?
>>2993004Italy
>>2993002notch jet set 2 + the notch rope wrenchmy friend climbs for nat geo and has full petzl, and i too prefer to keep gear from the same company and notch seems like a fair balance between cost and effectivenessrandom johnny ball and line and some 25kn carabiners, plus a 55kn steel carabiner for the memesnon-wire flipline with one sewn eye and one snap hook (will use stopper at one end w/ prusik some 32" 8mm prusik loopsif i get good enough to require more than 120ft of climbing line ill probably just buy a 200ft or more haha, just getting into it so dont want to go absolutely apeshit with gear. currently using an old buckingham 1378-L that was sitting around, will upgrade to either a petzl or notch harness assuming i want to continue to do this frequently.any rec's for harnesses or other gear I may be missing?
>>2989978First pic looks creepy and awesome
