My home furnace and AC have lasted 33 years. I've replaced the condenser myself and had the freon filled 4-5 years ago. It (apparently) has slowly been leaking* and has gotten down to a level of freon that in the July heat (96F/35C) it just can't keep up and it's blowing cool not cold for the last 3 days. I'm using a whole house fan to keep things livable at night but in the evenings it gets to like 78F/25C inside.The problem is all the people who want to sell me a new efficient AC and furnace because mine is "too old" have influenced the internet and I'm starting to question if fixing it for $3000 (leak testing, braising, freon) wouldn't be better put into a new unit which is probably $20k in my area (2.5% of the value of the home which is fucking insane). I've maintained both units, keep the filter clean, put in a nest thermostat and an industrial humidifier but I can't do the leak test and freon myself so I need you guys who respect using old things that work to give me a head check on what I should be looking at/planning. Also I know there are HVAC guys if you want to give a heads up on units or things I should consider.*big assumption because it still cools just not cold. I'd think if a seal blew or an actual leak and it would be just gone.
I think $3k is a decent price to refill your unit. I’m assuming 20k is time and mats for a new hvac. If that is the case I would say go for the refill but do know it won’t last another 30yrs before you’ll need to refill it again. Depending on how good of a job you do it could need to be topped off in 5yrs.
>>2999923You can buy a lot of window or mini split units for $3k.
>>2999923I read you need a certificate to order refrigerants and mixing banned refrigerants with a new refrigerant with similar characteristics is also not approved
>>2999931Yeah the hvac have their shit on lock. R12 is expensive and rare but id they decommission an r12 unit they don't give you credit for the freon they recover.
>>2999923You need to confirm that it's a refrigerant leak before you do anything. Is the drain clear? Float switch working normally? Start/run cap within tolerance?
>>2999948It wouldn’t be “somewhat cooling” with any of those issues.>>2999923The old refrigerants are getting more and more expensive because *legally they can’t produce it and you’re buying recycled stuff. The old units last forever. I would get somebody honest who isn’t working on comission to sell you a new system, have them leak test it and tell you if it’s worth saving based on overall conditiob or will you have 5 more leaks in the next 10 years.>posted from inside a rooftop unit
>>2999951>I would get somebody honest who isn’t working on comission to sell you a new systemThis is such a fucking scam. When my rooftop unit went out* I called everyone in the fucking county about a replacement. I got a ton of estimates and they were all fucking retardedly expensive. So I priced out just buying a myself. Way cheaper. So then I was calling around to all the same places and most of them wouldn't even give me an estimate. They straight up won't install a system if they don't sell it to you. Even if it was from a manufacturer they sell. The few that did turned around and quoted insane labor costs. If it was 3k for a system install, 2k for the unit and 1k for everything else, suddenly it was 1.5-2k just to install.I ended up going with some freelance HVAC guy a friend recommended. It was me and him man-handing a packaged unit into place using a rented fork lift and some breaker bars. Not counting the unit I think he charged me around $400. That was a lot for 2 hours work be it saved me a bunch of cash in the end.*Same issue, actually. It was 25 years old and the refrigerant leaked out of the AC side.
>>2999951Also important to note that the lines will corrode over time, you’re always going to end up with leaks. I don’t know if it’s the new refrigerants or thinner lines but the newer units seem to start leaking sooner.
>>2999951yes this is the question. it's unlikely to me it sprung a leak, like vibration in the copper cracked a weld or wore a new pinhole because then I'd have nothing- all the freon would be gone and it would be hot as balls not barely keeping 78F.>>2999948it's not cutting power, it's running and blowing. plus I shut down the humidifier and it's like 10% humidity here without it, we don't even use coasters (and yes my wife insists we run the humidifier even with the AC in the summer...)>>2999955no shit it's why I'm considering rolling the dice for $3k and hoping the older system won't turn into >>2999961
>>2999951>The old refrigerantsWhy would a old unit need old freon? Why cant they just use new freon? I'm not an expert or anything, but I have installed my own minisplits. vacuuming the lines and adding Freon was easy and the cost is around 150$. 3k seems absurd.
>>2999966I think it has to do with the compressor oil.
>>2999963Have you checked the condenser fan while it's running? They tend to fail slowly so if it's not spinning at the nominal RPM then it won't cool efficiently.
>>2999968To add, the condenser fan should spin freely by hand without resistance or noise.
>>2999967gotcha, looks like it has to do with compression and you can't even buy the R-22 with out a license. It does seem like getting a new unit that doesn't use R-22 is better, because you can't even self repair those old units anymore.
>>2999968This, fan bearing wearing out or getting gummed up with dust caused my old unit to start sucking more power.
>>2999966Because muh EPA outlawed all of the good stuff. And they made it illegal to produce/import the old ozone killers. Anything they sell needs to be “recovered” and it gets more expensive over time because it’s more and more limited and eventually will force people to smuggle it in or buy a new unit because of the cost of recharging an old unit.>>2999961Google it, I think a lot of the new stuff dies faster because the “safe” new freons require much higher pressures and that is more stress on everything.
>>2999971better is highly relative because they use thinner cheaper copper and the new R-410A is corrosive and under higher pressure. R12 is obtainable but it's going to be $1500 for 4 lbs.
>>2999973my asthma still hasn't gotten over it. fuck the EPA
>>2999975>>2999971You need the EPA cert to buy the new stuff too even though it’s not even ozone depleting. At least legally. I did my EPA 608 certs like a year ago. And even then, AC supply houses don’t like to sell to you unless you’re with a company that has an account with them. I’m sure I could order it online with my EPA cert number.
F gas cert is nearly free in the US AFAIK.Or you could use a hydronic air handler and avoid refrigerant entirely.
>>2999923WTF is up with US pricing? I was trying to see what a hydronic solution would cost in the US and a 3 ton monoblock from chiltrix is 11k+.How? That's over 3 times what some mid brand monoblock costs here and still over 2 times for premium brand.
>>2999992WTF that's so much
>>2999966Yeah that's absurd pricing
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>>2999992I’m not sure where people like OP get their prices either. I had a new 4 ton AC unit put in my house in South Florida 3 years ago and it’s not exactly a rural cheap place to live. It was like $6000 and they gave me 0% interest over 18mos on it. New hurricane pad for the condenser unit, new air handler inside. But they used the existing ductwork and lines, I’m sure that adds up quick if I needed them.
Darn in a similar boatAC freezes when under heavy loadMf that built the house installed a unit 5 years older than the house too.
it's a really fucked situation where modern engineering has actually integrated planned obsolesence. new AC unit will have <10 year life. old AC already >30 could last another 10 years with proper, cheaper repairsBUT the freon is illegal and shit is gayall modern appliances are designed to fail and i'm so pissed about it every day(because i'm a service plumber and i don't want to sell people shit I know will fail, but i know it will fail)it's across the fucking board
>>2999923Second part is missing a syllable. It needs a just or here after installed.
>>3000000What an absolute waste.
>>2999923>if a seal blew or an actual leak and it would be just gone.Depends on the type of leak. Sounds like it's the sort that needs a certain amount of pressure or a certain degree of temperature fluctuation to actually start leaking and when it's below that, it "self-seals" in a way. Means it would only leak when you have it running and could last through a couple winters no prob. If there's no issues mechanically (Condenser fan+blower motor in good shape, TXV or whatever it has is working fine, no electrical issues) then yeah, it's a leak. If it's an option for your system's particular refrigerant, I'd look into replacing the refrigerant with a substitute instead of shelling out for the OG stuff. I know for certain R22 can be swapped out for another called M-1984 or some such. That one anon is right with newer systems shitting themselves from higher working pressures (500 psi VS 300 psi for older stuff) and synthetic oils that acidify and destroy your system from inside (not a problem with older stuff, they used mineral oil). Keep your older system for as long as feasible.
>>2999923What's your homeowner's insurance deductible? $2K? Maybe just go with a new unit.
