What tools will I need?
Chisel
>>3000050CNC water jet
>>3000107What is that?
>>3000050ok kidserlio, vignola, palladio - all have their descriptions of the 5 orders, all properly drafted. this is the imitation of drafting. pertsonally, meh, i dont like it. but its a fair first step.you really need to do a deep dive. this isnt common knowledge anymore. hammmers, chisles with different teeth, files, plumb lines, rulers, theres a IG dude - find him and dm him. ask for the basic books and tools.
>>3000423Can't you just tell me the books? I don't know what an IG dude is.
>>3000423Also I checked around especially vignola and none describe the regula des volutes of the corinthian order
>>3000642instagram, bro. you can find dudes carving there. well theres at least one good guy, italian, helps fix cathedrals n shit.for drawing, design, you need proper orthographic technique, not graph paper. serlio, vignola, palladio all have publications on the 5 orders, which get redrawn and redrawn over the centuries, so some books and translations are better than other. most are on the internet archive for free, some you need an account for. the drawings are the instructions, for design. the text instructions are basic propportions (all in terms of the module, or diameter, of the column).volutes instructions are given via diagrams - you have to practice and learn each persons diagram, ie how to use a compass and switch center points.
>>3000648Yeah I get the principle of forming volutes, and have done it for the Ionic order. But I can't find instructions on the Corinthian order anywhere.
>>3000677bro. these three architects literally draw and give text instructions and modules for the corinthian in their books on the five orders.you ok?
>>3000677and likely you havent done shit because you dont fucking draft.you sketch on graph paper.
>>3000680>>3000681Show me where one specifies the rules governing the construction of Corinthian volutes, or just fuck off already, you prick. (I'm not interested in your faggy social media profile, either.)
>>3000683not my social media. you asked about stone carving tools.im the only person to respond to you.fuck off.
>>3000683your entasis is wrong btw fuck you
>>3000684Oh, can't do it, eh? That's what I fucking thought. Go jerk off some more to your "IG dudes".
>>3000685If you knew shit about Corinthian columns you'd know entasis was optional. Maybe your IG dudes didn't cover that for you. Begone now, midwit.
>>3000687its notevery writer on the five orders prescribes itcunt
>>3000687but go ahead and drool on graph papergood luck
>>3000692And yet, you can't show me a single example (because none of them specify Corinthian volutes).>>3000693Is your zoom zoom brain so rotten that you didn't see my last pic? Go back to doomscrolling, retard.
>>3000695lol volutes entasis shut the fuck up. you dont even know what youre complaining about, bitch.yeah i saw you shitty pic.LOLgood luckfr try not being cunt on the internet. you might get the help you need.
>>3000697I'll be a cunt to zoomer retards like you all day long and it won't change a damn thing. You don't even know what engineering paper is. How could you possibly help me in the first place? Your first recommendation was fucking "IG dudes" lmao. Seriously fuck off now zoomie. Don't you have Iranian mud to die in while I fuck your sister?
>>3000698lol "engineering paper" so gayyour first question was about toolsyoui dumb fucking fuck
>>3000698and my first recommendations were looking up the design and instructions from serlio, vignola, and palladio.how do i know? because its up there for us all to read.get some fucking help. youre a compete asshole
>>3000683>>3000685>>3000687>>3000692fucking kek, god i will miss this place so much when it's gone. please, two autists who will never meet each other, continue spitefully bickering over fundamentals of corinthian architectural geometry, it nourishes me
>>3000703were not bickering over geometryhes being a bitch about not being spoonfed like his mamma used to do.
ENGINEERING PAPER
>>3000703This could be solved with forms and concrete.
>>3000706yes, if only someone could design the forms....
>>3000708CAD + AI. No skill needed. lmao
>>3000709not really, but im sure you'll so well in the mcmansion market
>>3000700>>3000705>he REALLY doesn't know what engineering paper isI will continue doing real work as you watch my missiles fly around you on Kharg Island, zoomie. I will continue fucking your cute sister while you pray to God that the next drone strike doesn't hit your quarters.
>>3000711lol dont care about your vibes on graph paperis graph paper the hill you want to die on?go for it.
>>3000710If it's structurally sound, durable and aesthetically pleasing then who cares?
>>3000713>modern concrete>structurally sound
>>3000712It's a better hill to die on than Pickaxe Mountain, zoomie. :) Hope you didn't have any delusions about dodging the draft; the Flock cameras I voted for in the city council meeting you didn't attend will catch you!
>>3000714Are we talking about columns or something else?
>>3000715ok graph paper boyglad to know youre a bitch in all categories.
>>3000717Hahaha you sound scared zoomie. I'll have your sister name our bastard child after Pete Hegseth.
>>3000050Teach me how to draw like you.
>>3000742It's all geometry, man. My reason for wanting to know the volute rule is so that I can shade everything according to exact rules based on angles. Unfortunately Vignola and the rest didn't specify the Corinthian volute rule; I suppose they wanted to leave it up to artistic interpretation, which is what I did in the OP drawing. I would also like to learn to carve this stuff but drawing it is the first step.I taught myself how to draw the geometry, but you may find it easier to learn from a YouTube video or something. I just traced my mug to make the OP circle but it was so fun I wanted to do a more serious version here: >>3000683. If you want me to do my own step by step of how I get the column proportions and draw them, I'd be really happy to do that. But it's mostly just obeying preset rules like here:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HBh04ZtnLDM^I like this channel a lot. Just wish they'd done more videos.
>>3000742its drafting, or orthographic projection, aka descriptive geometry, and if youre a bad ass stereotomy, and if youre a hyper bad ass you do projective geometry.
>>3000808True Gs do projective non-Euclidean geometry.
>>3000754>If you want me to do my own step by step of how I get the column proportions and draw them, I'd be really happy to do that.Please do.
>>3000879Ok, it's likely to be this weekend, and don't expect it to be perfect. I'll show you how I do it with a compass and protractor and whatnot, with explanations. I only started doing this last week, so don't expect perfection.
>>3000881Take your time, anon.
im interested in this tooi have unprecedented access to rocks
>>3000937>>3001005Ok I am about to do a dump ITT.
>>3001056Things you'll need:Paper, pencil, compass, protractor, ruler.Some texts refer to "modules" and "parts". The "module" is simply the radius of the column at the base, and there are 18 "parts" in a module. I will work in units of diameter D at the base, which corresponds to 2 modules.
>>3001057Step 1:Decide your column size. I am working on 24"x18" paper. I start in the middle and measure 125mm directly vertical in both directions, drawing the center line. The total length of the column is 250mm. The diameter D at the base is equal to 1/10th the height of the column. Thus D=25mm for me.
>>3001060Step 2:Starting at D/2 = 12.5mm above the bottom of the center line, draw a horizontal line of length D. This forms the top of your column base.
>>3001061Step 3:The capital's height is 7D/6 = 29mm. The column diameter just below the capital should be 5D/6 = 21mm. So, starting 29mm below the top of the center line, draw a horizontal line of length 21mm. This forms the bottom of the capital.
>>3001063Step 4:The bottom of the base should be 25D/18 = 34.5mm.
>>3001064Step 5:Vignola specifies the diagonals along the top of the capital to be 2D, but I want to view the volutes at a 45° angle, and so I draw the top of my capital 2D/sqrt(2) = 35.5mm wide.
>>3001065Steps 6-8 form "entasis", which is an optional step added by Vignola in the 16th century. Tuscan and Doric columns had rules for entasis predating Vignola.Step 6:At 1/3 the height of your shaft (82 mm from the bottom of the base for me), make a horizontal line 12D = 300mm across.
>>3001066Step 7:Draw lines of length D/2 = 12.5mm off of the centerline, directed toward the opposing vertex of the line from step 5. The number of lines is arbitrary. I chose 24: 18 regularly spaced 1/10th the shaft length apart, 2 through the line from step 5, 2 through the bottom of the capital, and 2 through the top of the base.
>>3001067Step 8:Connect the tips of each line. I've found that it helps not to pick up your pencil as you go from tip to tip. Use a straight edge to connect the tips, and readjust it at each new tip to ensure they're smoothly connected.
>>3001068Steps 9-19 address fluting. There is a much simpler way to do fluting if you choose not to do entasis. The simpler method involves drawing two circular cross-sections of the column: one just under the capital and one just above the base. Divide the circles into 24 arcs each (15° for each arc). Draw straight lines connecting the corresponding parts of each circle. These form the divisions for each flute. If you like, you can do divisions +/- one degree, i.e., at 1°, 14°, 16°, 29°, 31°, &c. Connecting those divisions will directly form the lines for your flutes.Step 9:Since we chose to do entasis, we need to either draw and divide circles at each point we chose to use as a reference for the entasis, or else we need to do a little math. I'll choose the latter. First, draw horizontal lines at each entasis reference point.
>>3001070Step 10:The diameter at each reference point is slightly different. You'll have to measure how each one turned out. If the ith reference point has a radius r_i, then the marks for each flute should go at r_i*cos(θ_j), where θ_j is the angle for each flute marking. Following the pattern above, these angles are θ_j=(1°, 14°, 16°, 29°, 31°, ..., 179°), with cosines equal to (0.9998, 0.9703, 0.9613, 0.8746, 0.8572, ..., -0.9998). The effect is that each flute has the appropriate perspective of higher density toward the edges (where you view at a more glancing angle) and lower density toward the center (where you view with normal incidence). For my entasis reference points (and throwing in the extremities of the shaft), starting from the bottom and going upward, r_i=(11.5mm, 11.5mm, 12mm, 12mm, 12.5mm, 12mm, 12mm, 12mm, 11.5mm, 11mm, 10.5mm, 10mm, 9.5mm). So the unique values of r_i for which I must evaluate r_i*cos(θ_j) are (9.5mm, 10mm, 10.5mm, 11mm, 11.5mm, 12mm, 12.5mm).
>>3001071Step 11:Mark the distances r_i*cos(θ_j) for each entasis reference line. I chose to only do those for which the diameter shifted to a newly rounded 0.5mm, since these measurements are getting sub-mm now and my pencil has 0.5mm lead.
>>3001073Step 12:Connect the markings you made in step 11.
>>3001074Step 13:Erase all entasis reference lines.
>>3000050FUCKING GOOGLE IT MORON
>>3001075Step 14:Reconnect the flutes.
>>3001077Step 15:Erase a width ~D/8 = 3mm above the base and below the capital.
>>3001078Step 16:Draw lines D/24 = 1mm above the base and below the capital.
>>3001079Step 17:Mark the midpoints of each flute on the lines from step 16.
>>3001080Step 18:Curve the flutes inward to meet the points from step 17. Their ends should be circular.
>>3001081Step 19:Carefully erase the lines from step 16 and redraw any of the fluting, base, or capital necessary. Curve the edges slightly outward where they reconnect with the base and capital. The shaft is now complete.
>>3001082Step 20:The base is comprised of 12 components. From top to bottom, the heights of the first 11 are 6D/144, 12D/144, D/144, 6D/144, D/144, 2D/144, 2D/144, D/144, 6D/144, D/144, 16D/144, where the remainder belongs to the last component. For us, these come to 1.0 mm, 2.1 mm, 0.2 mm, 1.0 mm, 0.2 mm, 0.3 mm, 0.3 mm, 0.2 mm, 1.0 mm, 0.2 mm, 2.8 mm. Draw lines for each of these, starting from the top of the base and moving down.
>>3001083Step 21:Each moulding protrudes horizontally from the edge of the top of the base by the following amounts: 0D/144, 7D/144, 4D/144, D/144, 6D/144, 7D/144, 7D/144, 6D/144, 11D/144, 20D/144, 20D/144, or 0.0 mm, 1.2 mm, 0.7 mm, 0.2 mm, 1.0 mm, 1.2 mm, 1.2 mm, 1.0 mm, 1.9 mm, 3.5 mm, 3.5 mm. Mark each of these.
>>3001084Step 22:From top to bottom, the mouldings used are fillet, Toro, concave, Scotia, concave, Toro, Toro, concave, Scotia, fillet, Toro, fillet. Fill these in.
>>3001085Step 23:Erase any excess lines and redraw where necessary. This completes the base.
>>3001086Step 24:Draw reference lines for the capital. Connect the corners and draw lines at 2/7, 4/7, 6/7 its height. Here, the heights are 8.3mm, 16.6mm, 25mm.
>>3001087Step 25: Add a D/36 = 0.7mm fillet and D/24=1mm Toro to the bottom of the capital.
>>3001089Step 26:The first two rows will feature 8 acanthus leaves each. Being evenly spaced around the column, they'll sweep out 45° a piece. However, since the two rows are offset from each other, it will be useful to measure out 22.5° reference lines. To do this, find r_i*cos(θ_j) again. At the top and bottom of the capital, r_i = (10.5mm, 17.7mm). The angles θ_j = (22.5°, 45°, 67.5°, 90°, 112.5°, 135°, 157.5°).
>>3001091Step 27:Mark the conical reference lines.
>>3001092Step 28:I want the second row's middle leaf to be centered, so I'll draw the bottom leaves off-center. Their edges will be at 0°, 45°, 90°, and 135°, and their centers will be at 22.5°, 67.5°, 112.5°, and 157.5°.
>>3001093Step 29:Draw the next row of acanthus leaves.
>>3001094Step 30:The next row will have the volutes. Divide it into 4 evenly spaced smaller rows.
>>3001095Step 31:Sketch the corner volutes. This is a point I can't find much information on. I let the main spiral span 3 rows here.
>>3001096Step 32:Sketch the inner volutes called "helices". I let these span 2 rows.
>>3001097Step 33:Draw supporting acanthus leaves. I let these span 1 row.
>>3001098Step 34:Divide the top row of the capital in two. Then, divide the new upper half in two again.
>>3001099Step 35:Add the fleuron and abacus moulding.
>>3001100Step 36:Erase reference lines and redraw where necessary.
>>3001101Step 37 is to clean it up and shade but I got in a hurry, have some other stuff to do. I may post that later.I can do a zoomed in version of the capital later too but it'll just be the same process basically.
this was fuckin wild and you never got your question answeredbut i think it's chisel and hammer
>>3001102what a stupid fucking waste if time.
>>3000697>>3000698jesus christ you two get a room and jerk each other.
>>3001115Welcome to 4chan
>>3001076You can say that about 99.999% of threads on /diy/
drafting is the knowledge of hinged orthographic projections. Palladio knew it. perhaps maybe you will too.
>>3001149It's not exactly what I did in the drawing but my intent with the drawing was to address >>3000879. I get the concept of orthographic projection but my problem is translating that to real-world sculpting/carving. I have nearly no experience with that. I don't know the best tools to use, I don't know where to get material as a base.
>>3000050Chisel for the big siluatte, sandpaper to smooth it out, dremmel for the smaller details.
>>3001056Great posts. Thanks, anon.
>>3001186suck up
>>3001200>a stranger spends hours fulfilling a request with 0% chance of gaining anything from it>>"Thanks." (Took 2.7 seconds to type)>>>suck up
As for me, I've really enjoyed learning about all the tools used for stone carving.Hopefully when I show my stone slab my drawing of a voltues it'll understand and just crack into shape.
>>3001237The drawings were a better contribution than your complaint about the drawings.
>marry cheating bitch>she gets pounded by a golf pro>then she gets greased by a drifter>you get framed because you threw your pistol in the river>sent up for 20 yearsNow you have all the time in the world to learn to shape and polish rocks
>>3001157the tools of drafting are the first tools of sculpting as well. compass, plumb line, right angle, knowledge of geometry, plan, elevation. for the tools, i dunno. maybe look up some good sculptor like that one mason who posts on instagram all the time and ask him.
>>3001256I'm not on instagram, and I'm not gonna make one just for that one guy. Is he on YouTube?
>>3001272dunnomaybe you shouldeither waycharlie gee and natalie geedont be a dick to people trying to help you next time.
>>3001101Even though I'm not sure if OPs question has been answered, that was cool af.
>>3001273ok kid
>>3001200I asked for him to post his process, retard.
>>3000717I really enjoyed your responses, you tried. Not your fault he's retarded.
>>3001981its ENGINEERING paper.lol
>>3001981>>3001984NTA but do people on this board really not know what engineering paper is? Walk into the office of any engineer worth his salt and he'll have stacks of these laying around:https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/105817/Staedtler-Engineering-Computation-Pad-5-x/
>>3002015>*crickets*No, the plebeians that posted ITT are too fucking retarded to do useful work. That's why they are terminally online and still wrong about Vignola and the like specifying volutes. KHV that will never accomplish anything in life.
>>3002015>>3002087architects dont draw on graph paper.so take your baby's cant draw paper and kindly fuck off
>>3000698>Don't you have Iranian mud to die in while I fuck your sister?Holy shit this a brown coded response.
>>3002129>>3002104>>3001984>>3001981Samefag is MALDING. Still not following your "IG bro".
>>3002104Baldassare Peruzzi, Plan for Palazzo Orsini, c.1519. Gabinetto Disegni e Stampe degli Uffizi, Florence.You were saying?
>>3002138ah yes, the excellent argument of a single example...peruzzi's a great draughtsman. not really sure hes the foundation for making your case.
>>3002142Donato Bramante, Plan study for the Basilica di San Pietro, Rome, 1506.
>>3002142>>3002104https://drawingmatter.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/DMJ_No2_FabioColonnese.pdf
>>3002144>>3002143>>3002142>>3002138>>3002104https://www.masshist.org/thomasjeffersonpapers/doc?id=arch_N388.1a
>>3000107what a fucking cuck piece of shit, kill yourself, faggot. You will never gonna make it
>>3002145>>3002144>>3002143>>3002142>>3002138>>3002104https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/xwHpAvpip_q_kQ
>>3002147>>3002145>>3002144>>3002143>>3002142>>3002138>>3002104There are so many examples from 15th century all the way to 21st century that I can't possibly list them all. I think I've proven my point though; you're a childish retard that only knows trendy ticktock vibe "work". It's pathetic, honestly.
>>3002138here, i will give you some historical fodder https://drawingmatter.org/dmj-grids-and-squared-paper-in-renaissance-architecture/its not the savviest of articlesdoesnt change the fact draftsmen dont design on graph paper
>>3002153>I will regurgitate a link to the website you already provided and pretend I wonOk kid. Next time just keep scrolling "IG" while grownups are talking.
>>3002143thats not graph paper. thats paper that is ruled as the drawing progresses and the design and scale get set. that why designers dont use graph paper.
>>3002155Lmaaaoooooo dude what kind of fucking cope is this? Just admit you were wrong. Embarrassed for you
>>3002154found your single source independently. of course grids exist, but you cant mix cunts drawing on graph paper, fabriation techiques for transfering drawings, and the shitification brought on by meager wannabe like Durand extolling drawing on a grid. you wouldnt even know if a grown up was in the room.
>>3002156its not graph paper, guy.
>>3002157>Single Source>>3002149>>3002147>>3002145>>3002144>>3002143>>3002158>it's not graph paper, it's just paper the draftsman turned into graph paper because he needed graph paper!Just stop dude lmao. I can only laugh so hard
>>3002159dig up an nice high res version of the bramante drawing from the Uffizi and we'll talk.>>3002149otherwise youre just graph paper guy.
>>3002160>y-your 6 examples weren't enough, I need more! I need high-res!!!Cope, zoomie retard. You will never do real work. A machine will take your job and you'll be sent to die face down on Kharg Island. And I will be laughing as I fuck your sister.
>>3002163ok Khargi. lets break it down in some simple terms. if you are drawing on some premade grid of paper (say because you cant draw) but you want to draw one of the five orders (the origin of this discussion, not building plans of fucking cathedrals), then the minute Palladio say divide the height of the column shaft in thirds, the utility of the paper is gone, unless youve invented your own units and are drawing at a scale that will get you an even division with the grid, which might not really be likely. As a basic example.then, say you want to get the true length of your volutes by drawing a new angled plane of projection, again, now the utility of your bby's first drawing paper is utterly gone. this is why we have rulers and parallel rules.a decent argument could likely be made that the reason bramante draws on a partially squared page is because it removes the need for larger scale mechanical means of drawing orthogonal lines. the minute he has a wall, say, whos thinckness is not a unit of the grid, the value of the grid as measurement disappears. they utility of the grid as a drafting aid remains. but none of these distinctions are know by you or matter to you. you just need to blow up Kharg Island.And im guessing play minecraft.or groom minors on roblox or whatever you do.
>>3002181Wow, all those seething words that nobody is gonna read. You really are mad. Deep breaths zoomie! Go scroll your favorite IG to calm down.
>>3002208lol nobody into art and drawing and history gets mad about what people think on 4chan. i know my people. keep meming, graphies.
>>3002323>t. Never browsed /his/
>>3002372yes. and im also tall and handsome.
>>3002446And I'm the King of England
>>3002494Greetings, Your Highness
>>3002518Well-met, your tall-handsomeness. Shall we further our esoteric dispute?
>>3002573LETS DO THIS SHITuhi meanyeswhy else have esoteric disputes?
>>3002594Ugh you just took all the fun out of it with your enthusiasm.
>>3000107Ok I just ordered one. Is the $190K model good? I saw a couple good reviews so I impulse-bought.
>>3002610well, id be repeating myself talking about the idiocy of graph paper when drawing say one of the five orders and id be repeating myself talking about the futility of graph paper for planning a cathedral, despite some mediocre scholarship about itgood design finds its grid, but doesnt start on graph paper.if you know your Vitruvius, you know the difference between arithmetic and geometry and their place in design.but lol 4chan etc.
>>3002628I don't understand why you autistically hyperfocused on the fact that I used graph paper in my simple mug doodle. So many interesting things to talk about and you chose the most nitpicky asinine detail over a non-issue, since I also showed you my use of blank paper.Anyway, back to the original point. I found this small diagram on the volutes in a translation of Vignola. But it doesn't give measurements / guides for the reference points in the eye of the volute; it isn't in the accompanying text, either.
>>3002677i didnt autistically hyperfocus on it. i made fun of you once or twice about it, as you were, if you are op, frankly being quite a dick, and then all the "real work' chuds decided to chime in about how well they can bomb kharg island with graph paper and then someone found an online essay, from a decent source and from an okish scholar who in my opinion does a disservice by equating early experiements on prespective with durand's anti-art love of graph paper.the point was learning to draft. your pic shows an example of rotation and projection, ie drafting, and gives yoi measurement for the diagonal pieces.typically there is a diagram which shows you the locations to move the point end of a compass to draw the circle sections of a spiral. your example seems to just repeat the spiral. try another author or version. its not the kind of thing that would appear in the texts.and charlie gee is good. deal with it.
>>3002779>you were frankly being a dickYou rolled out of the gate with "ok kid", so I responded in kind.Yeah I've seen those compass point diagrams galore... just for the ionic order. I can't find anything for corinthian. I guess this frustration may be why the composite was invented>just slap some ionic volutes above the acanthus leaves and call it a day
>>3002779>you were ... frankly being quite a dickfirst time on the internet?
>>3002015Maybe they did in the 70s or whatever. Since then engineers have discovered this thing called a "computer" and they have this stuff called "software" that they can use for drafting. Although a couple of the older guys in the office still draft by hand, when they do drafting.
>>3002885I didn't mean for drafting. I use engineering paper all the time to sketch out ideas / math, or to explain stuff to people. I'm not gonna open microsoft paint to explain it to them, nor write equations in LaTeX... engineering paper is a real thing.
>>3003249I don't wanna take my time with graph paper, I got a motorcycle and a scaled ruler and ten or fifteen girls and a compass. What the hell I wanna go off and use graph paper? Graph paper for what? Measuring? I got all scales in the world. I'm the king, man. I run the underworld, guy. I decide who draws what and where they draw it at. What am I gonna run around like some teeny bopper somewhere on someone else's grid? I make the grids, man, I roll the lead pointers. The game is mine. I deal the cards
>>3003259Lol. Cheers king
