I hate how everything is cheap shit these daysJust glulam and finger jointed scraps stuck togetherCheap plantation timberMicroplastics in everythingChinese made shit everywhereThe fucking generations had all the good stuff like old growth timber and quality species if timberAlso fuck radiata pine especially.
Even the shit timber is expensive where I am
>>3000671this should be technically stronger than a solid wood, tho
>When a boomer says "I can't afford to heat my home", the zoomer hears a humble bragis the energy of this thread. Everything but planter timber is so expensive it's ridiculous. Beech table plate that isn't B/C? Hand over 1k. Oak? Lmao, fuck off. Nothing's cheap, everyone else is just way too expensive.
>>3000721Till a slight bitnl of moisture touches it and is twists and separates
the government has printed money for 60 years and half the gdp goes to boomer pensions/medical carewhat do you expectIt all has to come from somewhere
>>3000671I'm with you bro.But I must say, the timber in that pic isn't that bad, for pine that is. I've seen faster growth wood
It is what it is, anon. Consider that in the future dystopia we may be resented by the Gen Alphas and Betas for the relative comfort and luxury that we currently enjoy.
>>3000721The best laminations are when you bolt several boards between some steel plates... Prove me wrong.
>>3000874That is just rottable crushable I beam. The inner web isn't even the heavy part.
>>3000744In past times wood was expensive, so craftsmen came up with t]mw consooming ways to save material on their pieces. Now wood is all kiln dried, graded and people want 2" desks and wonder why its even more expensive lol
>>3000701Shit timber is especially expensive right now. It's cheaper to buy local hardwood than construction lumber now.
>>3000866Then I will have failed my sons. I am not going to fail my sons.
>>3000907where? dimensional is in the shitter on the left coast t. was just quoted $2778 for a unit of 189 2x6x20 kd premium
>>3000910Other side of the Atlantic.
>>3000884What past, before or after we got machines to handle every work intensive part? On a macro level wood always got cheaper since the industrialisation. Only now with corona and russia, it got all fucked up.
>>3000907Also this, rafters got some absolute jewish treatment.
>here is your timber beam, bro
got any more hot takes
>>3000940Yeah - you are a faggot.
>>3000880So as long as you keep it out of the weather so there is no moisture intrusion then what you're saying is you still haven't proven me wrong...
>>3000946The best laminate with steel < steel monolith.
>>3000671>Human population goes from 2 billion to 8 billion in one lifetime>Surprised that we're having to mass produce garbage to keep up with demand
>>3001000I want the population to drop below 3 billion in my life time.
>>3000721this is about as strong as a defect-free straight quarter sawn lumber, the main purpose of lamination is to eliminate various wood defects and have a consistent, predictable material in an economic manner. notice how the flat sawn boards are oriented so the grain goes perpendicular to the final board length.>>3000788by the time such a wood sandwich twists and separates an regular piece of wood would've split apart into little arched sticks. glue bonds breaking from the heat in case of fire and collapsing the whole structure is a bigger concern here.
>>3000671>everything is cheapsimple solution: Do not buy cheap things. The good things of old still exist, sometimes we have even nicer things now. It's just that the majority cares about price first and later complains after choosing the cheapest option.So no, not 'everything is nowadays'... just the cheap stuff. As has always been.
>>3000910that's like $1/bdft what are you complaining about?
>>3001361im on the mill side of the checkbook balance sheet so when the commodity price dumps my phone quits ringing
>>3000884Yep. Even furniture from the 1940’s often included a lot of veneer, and people paid a hefty price for the good stuff as we would today. It’s just people had more disposable income back then and could afford to pay for quality
>>3000920My home made ones are holding up really well. 75% the price of actual beams and maybe 10 minutes work each. Measured L/360 before putting them up and they easily beat a cheap 2x8
>>3001931>25% cheaper than actual beams>have to fuck around with themAt a 50% or more saving sure but at just a quarter off I would have just paid for actual timber beams. But that's me and you are you and you'd have done your own calculations and deemed it worth it for your needs. Looks solid, good work.
>>3001931retarded
>>3001140
>>3000671The majority of people used to work in construction/manufacturing.Now it's like 15%Keep complaining or go make nice stuff.
>>3002387Time for you to an hero and become the change you want to see.
>>3002435>t. the cultural enrichment looks ok from my gated community
When will redditors shut the fuck up about old growth, it makes fucking zero difference, you know jack shit about home construction.
>>3002448>better materials wont make a better houseThanks, retard
>>3002499There's nothing "better" about old growth stupid fuck. You know nothing about the math behind building codes. Shut the fuck up and never reply to me again.
>>3002499grow your own trees bro
>>3002506No fuxk youWhy is "oldgrown" worse then new growthAlso>building codesEl Oh Fucking El
>>3002506Also double fuck you for making me screen cap something to expose you as the little lying worm you are
>>3002538>makes ai argue for himfucking lobomiteDo you think modern stick framing methods and codes don't take the mechanical strength of new growth lumber into account? Do you think studs would be spaced 16 inches apart rather than 24 if the lumber were stronger? Maybe the spacing is done that way specifically because you have to account for new growth being weaker and as a system the frame turns out exactly the same?Again, you don't know enough about this to be bitching about muh old growth lumber, just like every other redditor who brings it up.If the limit of your knowledge about framing is just "stronger wood = more better" then you are simply out of your depth.Now fuck off go fuck yourself.
>>3002556YeahEgo, the new materials are worse, more labour intensive and prone to failYour argument boils down to>t-the m-materials are just as good if we over compensate for their sh-shittiness!Also they look shit aesthetically
>>3002556I forgot my image
New growth has no soul
>>3002561My argument boils down to>a stick framed house is structurally the same whether it's made of new or old growth lumber if its engineering accounts for the differences in mechanical properties, which it doesDo you think whoever manufactures >>3000920 would sell those if they hadn't done meticulous calculations and testing to show it could stand up to its projected load? Do you think you anyone would insure a house if the builder couldn't prove, with MATH, not guesses, that it was structurally sound?So we're out of old growth lumber, whatever. Figure out the properties of new growth lumber, figure out how many more studs we need in this wall to hold the roof up, figure out how things need to be attached to bear the load. It's all just math. We could do it for 2x2s if we needed to.The world works very differently from how you think it does. I hope this exchange has helped right your course if even a little bit. Now fuck off and stop replying to me.
>>3002564>So we're out of old growth lumber,This was the crux of the thread dumbarse and we were lamenting how in the past they had great resources but now we have microplastics in our brains and testicles and the housing products we use today leach carcinogenics into peopleObviously we have to live with this shit
>>3001931kek wtf, we use this stuff for concrete formwork and nothing else. You crazy Americans.
>>3002536Was that made by drunk retards or what?
>>3002556Nta, but I disregard everything you say. Shut the fuck up, you basement dweller ignoramous
>>3002563The best one is 1960. Not 1920
>>3002604Yes, you can tell because of the finger covering part of the lens.
>>3000671The thing is that land prices, wages, and permit fees are so high that it eats into the construction budget, so builders have to cheap out. Because they have to cheap out, lumber yards have to order shittier cheaper woods. It's actually not out of the question to let timber grow for a couple more decades to get a better quality lumber. But since low price is what drives salesYou can make good houses with cheapshit lumber but builders dgaf. They're usually illegal immigrants who can't speak a lick of english or read manufacturers instructions. Anyways its all fucked
>>3002536Steel plates welded together at the proper angles and then bolted through the wood could still save this mess. Once again proving my steel wood laminations are superior.
>>3002795>just cover the fuck up bro, no one will notice broUgh
>>3000800>economicsthe real problem is that billions of people should not exist.
>>3002802Well obviously it should have been done properly to begin with, but without undoing everything already done, a properly fabricated steel brace welded up would make that joint stronger than it could have ever been. In the real world sometimes you have to salvage what has already done.
>>3002820They have been saying that China has been massively overestimating their population for years. Everything is fake there, as you know. Like, take the population of the USA, subtract it from the population of China, and you have their actual population.
>>3002725removing the january tax on warehouse stored lumber would do more for lumber quality through giving everyone access to more stable and straight air-dried lumber instead of kiln-dried sticks than all of these suggestions.
>>3002844And it even has been reduced under Xi's anti corruption campaign several times.Yet, we still have india and africa. Given how they live and rape, their numbers might be very real.
>>3000671I agree. But people should start building with alternative materials: stone (free and everywhere), rammed earth (very cheap), adobe, etc.Corporations can't force you to waste a shit ton of money if you don't force yourself to build with sticks and cardboard.>>3000920Literal cardboard. Lmao.>>3000721>technically>>3002564>Do you think whoever manufactures >>3000920 would sell those if they hadn't done meticulous calculations and testing to show it could stand up to its projected load? Do you think you anyone would insure a house if the builder couldn't prove, with MATH, not guesses, that it was structurally sound?Yes, it's called collusion, cronyism, regulatory capture.
>>3003033Let me share with you guys some books/pamphlets on construction.https://archive.org/details/CAT87204745https://archive.org/details/CAT87204700https://archive.org/details/CAT87203047https://archive.org/details/CAT31301801https://archive.org/details/CAT87201657https://archive.org/details/CAT87202183https://archive.org/details/CAT87204488https://archive.org/details/CAT87202176https://archive.org/details/CAT77683106
>>3000671>>3003035Here's a few others.https://annas-archive.gd/md5/317ffd928d6243b185bd78f015d714e9https://annas-archive.gd/md5/4304faf47c7dbda2cf6f31afc9dae5d4https://annas-archive.gd/md5/29d0c992bf6da3bc5f03770a40a00f55https://annas-archive.gd/md5/23b52bfdd2042c2a053912c09b052f42https://annas-archive.gd/md5/3ade7e9e66f52277c76aa833eb40f08bhttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/03d7c596e3f6d92bd2891e0e4687ee2chttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/E971D1F6A573FC9865B49CA4593DD1DBhttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/F3A68977CCC4CE30946BE04462CB1459https://annas-archive.gd/md5/b026eebe728080ba6ebf4b96d0bef806https://annas-archive.gd/md5/0064c625899ef6222d0e57b24d95d942https://annas-archive.gd/md5/4F0DC15A85F3E7DDA655A10DC8BBF27Ahttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/2CF5036EB535639A089A12A52FBCDDC9https://annas-archive.gd/md5/54ce6c407af1e1cffd2d36fdb466c893https://annas-archive.gd/md5/51e681584ec4d0701b076d40ab17447fhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattle_and_daubhttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/a72d1e1abd548ffbc9fd8a588cbaa38ehttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/8a5120fb7d93df71343b7b2c295be23ehttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/c1e01bd17c92489a6c8a94d0238ff471https://annas-archive.gd/md5/c244c0c5d2f0263d80f35dde4559825dhttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/b945106083a9566d9c0ddc2cac4f63f7https://annas-archive.gd/md5/7125d7db7726a5127d9e91eae0b5b85dhttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/f968fd1a05260fc55f11a7176231a9fahttps://annas-archive.gd/md5/87C1245962C356445FA67769D48D9416https://archive.org/details/masonrystove
>>3002864Why are you such an anti-semite?
>>3003035>>3003036I am not reading that
>>3003236You don't have to. Just download the one that looks interesting to you if you want to build your own house for cheap.Those are books for building with stone, brick, rammed earth, adobe, cordwood, log, and timber (REAL timber, not the sticks sold nowadays).
>>3003236>>3003262There are also a few books on how to build a Russian/European-style masonry heater, which is a lot more efficient than a wood stove or chimney.
>>3003262Based I will read
>>3003236>https://archive.org/details/masonrystoveNta, but it's your loss
>>3000671Don't use wood then faggot
>>3003409>You think that product is crap? Don't use it.>Use this other product that's even worse!
>>3002607ThisFeel like that comparison is showing size standardization more than anything. The 1920 tree couldve been like 15 yr old or something when it was cut down vs the 1960 that's def old growth
>>3000671This is why I live in a 106 year old house you new(house)fag. Shit I've had water leaks and the house just kinda breaths, no mold, no problems.
>>3001931Honestly it's pretty cool to see a wood i-beam that doesn't look like OSB ass Genuine question tho, what's the advantage over a solid joist of equivalent height? Doesn't look like much additional width at top/bottom. It was 25% cheaper than I beams, but what about versus a joist?No hate anon, just sincerely curious
>>3000671>I hate blah blah blahyou should pic related.
>>3002563wait I thought 1918 wood is supposed to have a tighter grain! >>3002562one of you is lying.also 2x4's are smaller because they found that they did not need to be as big as they used to, the name just stuck.
>>3004991>also 2x4's are smaller because they found that they did not need to be as big as they used to, the name just stuck.Incorrect. Timber used to be cut, dried and sold. Now timber is cut, dried, surfaced, and sold. What is surfacing? Basically, they do a shitty job running it though a planer. Why? It removes the saw marks, helps correct certain defects, and makes the wood easier to work with/paint/etc. Timber is still 2x4 but only if it is rough cut. The stuff you are buying is "S4S", Surfaced 4 Sides. You can still find rough cut timber, just not a crappy places like Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, etc. You have to go to an actual lumber yard and they probably ask for it to be special ordered.
>>3005013What you’re saying is essentially true, but it’s also true that the shrank in dimension more than they needed to with just surfacing.They also rounded the corners for construction workers to make it easier to handle without slivers.If you’ve worked with rough sawn pine or spruce, you’ll notice that it is sometimes “furry” which makes it easier to catch fire, so surfacing probably decreases that risk somewhat—that’s by opinion anyway.The more obvious shrinkage came with plywood—when it all went metric, all the freedom-unit “equivalents” all lied and said it was bigger than it was, none of the standard unit “names” for plywood were actually bigger than their designation.
>>3005013>>3005016The more important issue is: Why the fuck isn't the actual dims of a 2x4 still a ratio of 1:2?Who decided on 1.50x3.50? Oh you need to put a double 2x4 header between two 2x4 wall frames?Sorry, the double 2x4s only add up to 3.0 and the wall frame spans 3.50, guess you gotta shove in a plywood spacer!MAKE IT 1.75X3.50 YOU FUCKS
>>3000671thank you capitalism
>>3005028They are lazy. They just run it though a planer and trim 1/4th of an inch off each side. That is why it is 1/2 inch smaller for all lumber. They use the same planer for everything.
>>3005035the dont plane 1/4" off commodity dimensional lumbermore like .030"and the giant corner radius is for weight reduction to pinch pennies on freight t. sawmill millwrong shenanigans
>>3005035???dude what you smoking
>>3004990Enjoy your slop house nigger
>>3005035Isn't a 1x4's actual size 0.75x3.50 though?Couldn't they just use the (presumably) 1/8 planer for top/bottom and 1/4 for the sides?>>3005037I'm blaming all this on YOU now. GET TWO PLANING JIGS U FUCK. MY 1:2 RATIO REEEEEE
>>3003035>>3003036Thanks for the based and redpilled info dump. Posts that are actually useful are rare.
>every single aspects of society have been devalued or gone downhill since the past century>For some reason some people will argue with you it's your attitude or your mindset that is problematic if you mention thisWe get it yall like to suck Dick but come on
