/balding/ and /finasteride/ general - hair is love, hair is life!Sticky: http://tuxbell.com/index.php/BaldingReminder that if you can clearly see down to your scalp when your hair is wet, your hair is thinning, lots of small new hairs sprouting at the hairline or crown is a sign of hair recession.Holy trinity:Tabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinasterideLotion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinoxidilShampoo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KetoconazoleFinasteride/Dutasteride are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors that prevent free T from being converted to DHT, a byproduct of testosterone that serves no purpose after puberty but to choke out your hair follicles and make them thin out and die in a few short years, a condition known as androgenic alopecia.5ar inhibitors prevent your hair from getting any worse, mild regrowth is expected, rapid onset diffuse thinners see a significant recovery on fin alone. Can be taken orally or topically.5ARIs are not dosage dependent, taking as little as as 0.2mg daily fin can reduce serum DHT by 68%, while 5mg reduces by 72%.0.5mg daily dut reduces serum DHT by 95%, but is considered a second line treatment, and can be more expensive and harder to get prescribed. Start with fin.Fin has been used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) for 30+ years, it's very well studied and is tolerated well in almost all men, however, there's a 1-2% risk of erectile issues in controlled studies.These can be avoided by reducing dosage, spacing out dosage, or stopping the drug. Fin takes days to fully bio-accumulate, the half life of fin is about 8 hours, adverse effects occuring within minutes of starting fin or persisting long after stopping fin are not real and have no basis in reality. Please note that dut has a much higher half-life of 5 weeks, if you're prone to fin sides, dut may cause them for far longer.Refer to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ before responding to PFS trolls.
>>18698181Minoxidil (liquid and tabs) is a vasodialator that opens potassium channels and widens blood vessels bringing nutrients to your hair follicles, stimulating them into thickening, accelerating growth and elongating the growth phase. Min is taken with fin to restore your hair to it's original hairline, thickness and vigor when hair loss is caught early enough, (pre-NW2). Can be taken orally or topically.Topical min does not work in 1/3 of men because they lack the required enzymes in their scalp, all men have this enzyme in their liver so the oral route is a good fallback.The FDA formulation for 5% liquid minoxidil is food safe (vape juice, ethanol and water) and can be safely taken orally if oral min tabs are expensive or rarely prescribed where you live. As a general rule, ~4 drops (0.1ml) = 5mg minoxidil.There's a 1-2% risk of fluid retention with higher oral dosages, start with the lowest dosage possible and work your way up when you're sure it's well tolerated.Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen and antifungal that inhibits DHT on the scalp and used to treat fungal infections of the scalp that may be making your hair loss worse such as seborrheic dermatitis, a condition where you exhibit severe greasy, flaky large dandruff flakes with dried yellow crystals (blood plasma) embedded in the scalp. Some people may only have traction alopecia (hair loss from scratching or friction), but it will not cure androgenic alopecia on it's own. Can only be taken topically.Do not use spirolactone. Spirolactone is a diuretic which, in large doses, inhibits testosterone and, by extension, DHT.It is regularly prescribed as an anti-androgen for male to female HRT, and thus, comes with an astronomically higher risk of sexual side effects in men including ED, gynecomastia, and can cause potassium toxicity.Previous thread: >>18689449
>>18698181Is there a country closer to America than Turkey that has a good hair transplant clinic? Mexico?
>>18698391The clinic and the proficiency of the surgeons matter more than the country. Shop around some of the results and reviews from patients in mexican clinics and decide if the results are good enough for you.
>>18698181I know that min affects cats but does it also affect parrots? I've been thinking about doing topical min for a while but i'm deathly scared of accidentally killing my bird
>>18698181>it's very well studied and is tolerated well in almost all men, however, there's a 1-2% risk of erectile issues in controlled studies.It can also cause heart issues.
>>18698440Nope
Why aren't I getting any sides from dut 0.5? Is this even working? Should I bump the dosage?
>>18698464Some people report (sexual) sides on finasteride but not dutasteride, but I think this is anecdotal only. I don't have any sides (other than less sebum overproduction) on dutasteride, but I never did on finasteride either. 0.5mg once daily is the standard dose for oral dutasteride and should work for basically all men. It does take a few weeks to reach peak concentration (it has a very long half life), but, if you've been on it that long, it should be working as well as any hormonal treatment can.
>>18698434it does yeah
>>18698489>The time to steady state is dose dependent, and at a dose of 0.5 mg/day is approximately 3 months.Few weeks my ass. No wonder I feel fine. Might as well finish my finasteride since my dick is going to fall off in a few months anyway.
>>18698464Why do you think sides are a “normal” thing to experience on the clinical dose?If you mean>I started Dut and my hair looks exactly the sameIt takes 6 months of daily use to tell if you’re a responder or not.
>>18698391Turkey is trash and there are only three Turkish surgeons worth considering: Pekiner, Bek, and Keser. There's Nader in Mexico and Pittella in Brazil. Thailand has several good value options such as Ratchathorn, Laorwong, Path, and Patty.
Current hairloss protocol:>320mg of saw palmetto twice daily (morning and night)>one 0.5mg dutasteride gel capsule daily>micro-needle session once weekly (entire scalp)>one 10,000mcg capsule of biotin daily>daily multivitamin >nizoral 2% shampoo once weekly (other days are head and shoulders BARE followed with RedKen ultra nourishing all soft conditioner)>0.25 mL of 2% topical minoxidil ingested orally equalling approximately 5mg of oral min
how well does HRT work for hair regrowth and do i still need fin on it?
anyone got experience with minoxidil sides? i'm taking 3mg (+1mg fin) orally a week in and getting an elevated heart rate and minor heart palpitations. it's not bothering me too much but i'm wondering if this is an adaptation or a permanent side effect. fin, on the other hand, is making me hornier
>>18698584Just do dutasteride or finasteride before trooning. even with trooning there's lots of variables if you can get hair back or not.
>>18698622what if i am already trooning? just started but i don't think that there is a reason to stop or delay.
I'm not taking your troon pills. I'd rather be bald tbqh
>>18698635have at it! another one out of the dating pool
>>18698614Wait a month and see if it lessens. Initial sides are kind of common on oral min especially starting off on a full dose.
>>18698584Yeah generally you will still want to be on fin so long as your body is still producing test, which it will be even on HRT. It doesn't take a lot of DHT to affect your hair especially if you already know you are susceptible to balding.
>>18698181We're all gonna make it bros!
>>18698567Regained hair count: 0
>>18698799Shoo shoo malding demoralizer
I'm not bald but my year has like 90% bad hair days so I usually wear a beanie.Boy oh boy are femoids *pushy* trying to find out what's underneath.So yes.They care.Stay the course.All the best to everyone here.
I'm 21 and I'm balding. Should I jump on duta or is it better to start with fin?
>>18699271Fin is enough for "most" people, mild regrowth and halting of balding progression is to be expected.
>>18699271what norwood level are you
>>18699490I'm not really sure. That's how it looks like
>>18699668Fin or dut NOW
>>18699668Get oral fin and minoxidil asap from a dermatologist. They’ll throw it at you like candy.
>>18699670>>18699677Is it really that bad?
>>18699696You’re thinning pretty bad, but at the same time, since you still have a hairline, it’s salvageable. Don’t worry, I was that bad as well with thinning receding. Took about six months to fill it in most of the way.Don’t worry. It won’t kill your dick. The only time that happens is if the person has hormonal problems already. Worst thing that happened was water retention for a couple weeks until the kidneys figured out what to do.
>>18699696dude i'm 34 and mine is not as bad as yours and i hopped on fin+min. go see a dermatologist
>>18699668Its not great.. you are right at the cusp before it turns into a nightmare. Diffuse thinning is brutal. You need to act on this now if you want hair by 25.
>>18698567biotin is uselesssaw palmetto is useless too especially if you're already on dutamicro needling is ok as long as you're not giving yourself scar tissueI'd buy minox pills from asia rather than fucking drinking the topical solution but you do you man you dont sound too sharp in general anyway>>18698614absolutely stop it and switch to topical if they dont go away, oral minox can give long term heart problems.
>>18698670>>18699881minox heartfag here - it's already improving, nowhere near as bad as it was at peak
>tfw second shed phase literally out of nowhere on the fifth month.>Last week looked great>First shed phase was hardly noticeable>Temples thinned again.Fuck!
31 closing in on 32 and noticed some very slight thinning, and shedding a good amount, had a bit of a nightmare scenario in the shower once but I got a full head of hair. How much is the monthly on this stuff generally? Guessing it's worth.Is it beneficial to cut it short? I have long ass anime hair
>>18699939I got insurance to cover mine since I got my prescription from a dermatologist.
>>18699931how common is this? i'm 10 days in on 1mg + 3mg min and expect shedding but how bad can it get before it gets better?
>>18699945Shed usually happens around 1 month mark, sometimes can happen around the year mark, sometimes you have many shed phases. It will get bad if you experience one, basically you will get a glimpse at your future hair without treatment.
>>18699903Nice if only more people could find a bit of patience before immediately discounting these drugs
>>18699696Yes, youve unironically lost 25% of your hair already, get on DUT and min
>>18699881Its not “drinking” the solution. It’s literally like 4 drops. As long as you measure it there is literally zero risk whatsoever. Even less so than the pills they’re giving out above 5mg. And one $30 bottle can last almost a year
>>18699696nta but imo nah. since you're diffuse thinning rather than norwoodmaxxing and most the loss is relatively recent given you're 21, you stand to regain a lot from dutasteride. dut takes around 3 months to reach ~90% of its DHT blocking capability, though, while fin is immediate. So while dut will likely serve you better for regrowth, fin will do a better job of stopping any more loss asap. i take 1.25mg of fin daily right now, and am planning to add 0.5mg dut soon, only dropping fin once ive been on dut for 3 months.
>>18698181Reminder that none of this dogshit works. Get used to buzzing your head, or get ready to have multiple hair transplant surgeries. These are your ONLY options. You've got to be a grade A retard if you believe that you can just take a pill and not be bald anymore. If that were true, nobody on the fucking planet would be bald.
>>18699973The whole point is not going bald in the first place.. Plenty of people can attest to the effectiveness of these meds in doing just that and gaining back ground. Yes they work, and you're a sour little bald man.
>>18699973lol
This thread should stop pushing fin and only recommend dutasteride instead. Consider how many men try finasteride get side effects and quit but then are too afraid to ever try dut since they're convinced it will feel worse.
Still not sure if zero sides from dut is just because I'm still in the first month. I wake up with morning wood every day and keep having erotic dreams, I had a nocturnal emission a few days ago. I hope it stays like this forever.
>>18700040One nice perk I read about dut vs fin is that the particle or w/e the fuck is too large to pass the blood brain barrier, so it doesn't effect libido or drive like fin. No idea if that's actually true tho.
>>18700026I agree, but a lot of Europeans have trouble getting it at all and they don't have the luxury of telehealth or gray market meds from india because everything gets searched and burned by their customs agency.
>>18699971>dut takes around 3 months to reach ~90% of its DHT blocking capability, though, while fin is immediate. that's clinically false. both drugs bind to the 5AR enzyme immediately, dut takes a while to build up in the tissues
>>18700046>dut takes a while to build up in the tissuesim guessing that's what i read about.
how noticeable is the shedding from just finasteride? is it true that the hairs that are shed are only the ones that were already miniaturized and not that visible anyways? i have pretty long hair and my hairline is not that bad, so i would like to just preserve it, so anything that fucks my shit up short term would leave me worse off. i do not intend to take minoxidil for now.
>>18700112What's the point of stressing over shedding? Some people experience none. You can be far below baseline for months in extreme cases, which is simply a glimpse into your near future without Fin. You have long hair so you can style it in a way to hide the shedding unless it's diffuse loss. The hair is going to come back stronger as long as you stay the course.
>>18700138this was after his transplant tbf your shit is gonna look fucked up for a few months unless you get really lucky
I've been using topical fin+min for a year and only just now noticed I'm making some modest gains. I'm NW3 so I didn't expect it to save me anyway (just wanna stabilize before getting a transplant) but it's still surprising that these drugs can leave you at or below baseline for a full year.
>>18700112i didnt shed from fin or dut
reminder you are all balding faggots regardless of how many pills you take or how many surgeries you getyou have the gene. it's etched permanently into your dna. you will pass it on to your descendents. it will remain an eternal curse on your bloodline. that's inevitable. that's biology. when i read about how someone went from NW3 to NW1 from X combination of drugs or Y amount of grafts i chuckle to myself the same way I would if a tranny told me it's a real woman now because it cut its dick and balls off.
>>18700202This stuff is going to be irrelevant soon. We're entering the era of gene editing and it will become so cheap and common place. Consider how entire genome sequencing went from $100k to practically $10 in 20 years.
>>18700202It would seem you are incredibly insecure about your baldness.
>>18700202i found out about fin too late too bro
I've come to a significant problem in life.I take finasteride because I'm trying to keep my hairline, but I want to donate blood and they won't allow blood donations here if you're taking finasteride.This wouldn't really be an issue if I had a cute girlfriend/wife (less than 20 years old, virginal), but since I'm still searching I'm not sure what to do.I figure my chances of securing a cute girlfriend/wife are increased as I keep my hair, but I also understand my requirements for a cute girlfriend are kinda "creepy", and I could probably lean into the creepy with the balding and just try to find one of those cute goblin girls who grew up thinking Riff Raff from Rocky Horror was the peak of sexy.The other option is to start campaigning Red Cross to change the eligibility requirements so that they take finasteride off the list of banned medications, then they just don't give that blood to pregnant women.
>>18700251Why do you want to donate blood?
>>18700252I'm a universal donor and it seems like a good thing to do.Idk, seems like the right thing to do.
>>18700251>>18700254Not donating blood is a significant problem? Don't destroy your dating prospects because of some moral quandary, once its gone its gone. Otherwise I guess you can put that you're a donor on your dating profile, overshadowed by your big bald head.
>>18700259Idk, I'm probably romanticising the thing, but I do like the idea of finding a cute girl who's really into the Riff Raff look. Idk, taking all these pills to maintain my hair line feels very vainglorious, which feels sinful, and i only justify by saying everyone else does it.
>>18700262I mean, Igor from Persona doesn't seem to have any trouble having fine honeys hanging around the Velvet Room all the time.
>>18700251>The other option is to start campaigning Red Cross to change the eligibility requirements so that they take finasteride off the list of banned medications, then they just don't give that blood to pregnant women.This isn't gonna happen, no one is gonna keep track of thousands of different specific blood donations that are only applicable to specific recipients and introduce the risk of more medical errors, types are enough of a headache. It's simply not feasible logistically. They're already selective and won't budge about shit that truly doesn't matter but is generalized, like autoimmune diseases in long term remission, they won't touch restrictions that actually make sense.If it makes you feel any better, blood donations are largely a con. The demand isn't nearly as high as the general public is led to believe, which you can figure out by noticing donors are either not paid anything in the EU or paid pennies for plasma in the US. You have zero control over what happens with your blood, it might expire in storage, it might be sold for profit to pharmceutical companies, etc. The campaigns to donate blood for 4 yo Timmy specifically? It's bullshit, look it up, your blood isn't going to Timmy specifically, it's just pooled with the rest and whether Timmy gets any isn't up to you.>inb4 they can't pay for blood because then people would donate too much and kill themselves!Literally a non-issue, just introduce a simple database with identification and keep track of donors, deny if recovery time isn't over. It's a paper thin excuse to distract from the fact that the donor is essentialy a cash cow, they're taking advantage of your good heart. If there was a real critical lack and demand for blood, steps would be taken to motivate donors appropriately.
>>18700264Not real life
>>18698614My legs started throbbing. Had to come off it. Just on fin now.
>>18699881>>18699903>>18699963>>18700318quick update from minox heartfag - apparently it's all in my head. I've checked my garmin watch and compared resting heart rate stats before and after starting minoxidil - 0 changes, the average is exactly the same. i've started hitting the gym and cardio hard at the same time as starting the meds though, so i think i'm just hyperaware of everything right now
>>18700202whatever makes you less insecure about being a baldcel, buddy
>>18698181I goon 2-3 times a day to reduce my T levels to prevent hair loss
>>18699696Don't be faggot like the people in this thread and take weird chemicals just for this, own it instead
>>18700356Doesn't work. The blow back when you stop gooning sends it into overdrive.
>>18700356>>18700402I get way more shedding and Balding Itch™ when I'm cooming a lot. No idea how that works.
'minder to not use minoxidil it will completely fuck up your life
>>18700409lol this is worse than PFSfags
>>18700409Sounds like gaslighting yourself. Minoxidil is a vasodilator, unless the increased blood flow to his cheeks somehow takes away blood pressure I can’t understand how this would work.
>>18700402So does stopping fin+min though
>>18700202>you will pass it on to your descendentsMost balding-related genes are from the mother's side THOUGH
>>18700402So you never stop gooning then
>>18700409>when you want be a part of the PFS circlejerk pity squad but are too much of a pussy to actually take fin
>minoxiACID seared my head for a few minutes and now i can't get a boner :(
>>18700409goy thinks he can get litigationbuxx. nah.
>>18700409>r/MinoxidilSideEffectsthey have an entire board dedicated to this?
>>18700251Really, what's stopping you from lying?You really think high risk gays taking heroic doses of PrEP everyday aren't lying about having sex with men so they'll be allowed to donate blood as a political statement, 5ARIs getting in the blood is a far far lesser threat to public health.They have throughly check every batch anyway for STDs anyway, literally because of ppl with STDs insisting on donating anyway.
>>18700356gooning causes you to produce more DHT
>>18700890I became so much more horny after starting dut, guess I'm fucked either way.The orgasms have never been more intense, I can't even use onaholes anymore cus I'm too sensitive to the point where all the overstimulation actually hurts.
>>18700914Finasteride and Dutasteride essentially remove the byproduct and leave you with free, pure testosterone.
>>18700407So I'm not the only one who experiences that. Whenever I goon too much my scalp immediately starts itching at the usual balding spots (temples and the crown).
>>18700705>5ARIs getting in the blood is a far far lesser threat to public healthIt is nontheless a threat to public health. DHT is absolutely crucial for the development of a male fetus, fucking with its levels even slightly by transfusing blood with 5ARIs to a pregnant woman is very dangerous.>what's stopping youI'm not him, but he's probably stopped by being a rational, empathetic, mentally healthy human being that wants to donate blood to help people, not a psychopath like you.>They have throughly check every batch anyway for STDs anywayIt is not screened for 5ARIs. If some retard on fin like you decides to donate, the mother getting their blood will be none the wiser.
should have done this years ago but I want to try oral minox.anyone know where I can get this in Canada?or do you guys actually order pills from Asia?
>>18701149Essential clinic or take topical liquid orally
>>18700914Did you switch from fin or start from nothing? I don't doubt it keeping more test from converting, but I'm hoping for mental libido gains since I'll be switching from fin soon.
>>18701265i was already on fin for a year before tapering off and getting on dut
To my burger buddies: Dr B is great. The total time from opening the site for the first time to receiving notice of a dutasteride prescription being sent to my pharmacy was probably like 20 minutes. $15 too, so cheaper for anyone that still has to co-pay or fully pay for dermatologist/GP appointments. I didn't even have to hop on a video call Just sent a photo of crown and hairline.>ur a shillYes but I'm doing it for free because of how pleasantly surprised I am.
>>18701277yeah they're pretty nice, after 4 or 5 renewals they don't even ask for pics of my head anymore, the money gets charged and I get my prescription like 2 minutes later
>>18700705>Really, what's stopping you from lying?NTA, but you’d have to be a complete sociopath to lie about not taking a drug just so you can donate blood.And the fact that you don’t see any problem with lying about that shows that there’s something off about you too.
been on fin for 7 weeks when this shit finna work?
>>18701617it works from the first day you take it, you just might not like the results (mostly maintaining your current hair and getting back ground from ~1-3 years ago at best)
>>18699973>Reminder that none of this dogshit works. Get used to buzzing your head, or get ready to have multiple hair transplant surgeries. These are your ONLY options.There is a third option, it's called embracing your baldness. My dad has been functionally "bald" for my entire life. He barely has any hair on his head, practically Homer Simpson-tier, but does he shave it and be a total baldfag? No, he embraces it. That's what real men do, it's what we used to do. Pic related. That's a real man. You can embrace thinning hair and a receding hairline without freaking out like some faggot
>>18699973>doesn't understand what prevention is, thinking fin+min is used to cure baldness>doesn't know you're put on fin for life after a transplant anywaysembarrassing tbqhwymf
>>18701619My hair thinned seemingly overnight about 3 years ago. Likely due to the emotional stress of a break up. Since then it has been stable, maybe went from NW1.5 to 2.5. If I don't see gains at 4 months i'll probably add topical min but i'd rather not.
>>18701729That might be a bit early. Depending on genetics and how aggressive the hair loss was it might take at least 6-9 months before seeing results. If you are going to introduce minoxidil before finasteride is starting to take off you might not know if finasteride on its own would have been useful enough to you. On the other hand if you are ok with using minoxidil as well and you do not care for finding out which results are thanks to finasteride and which thanks to minoxidil you can start it earlier but minoxidil might take over 6 months as well before you notice results (also there can be a shed at the start, but thats pretty standard). So just take it and forget about it for months.
>>18699973>Reminder that none of this dogshit works.Omg the malding in this post lol
Question, I have pretty bad worsened diffuse thinning. I will be honest, it's pretty bad. I have diffuse thinning focused on the top of my head. It's rather wide, if I part my hair the entire front line is wide and my hairline is intact but it looks just so bad. Ponytail is obvious too. How likely am I to recover some?I'll share pics later after I mourn some bit. I need long hair.
I took a picture of myself from above and thought everything was relatively okay, but then I took a picture from a different angle and under different light and turns out everything is a fucking disaster
>>18701775Neither of those look like a fucking disaster anon.
>>18701764calm down sweaty. obviously you're pretty much guaranteed to recover "some" with the classic fin and min combo.
>>18701781A lot of skin shows through on the second one and I'm really nervous about it. I got my hair cut short for the first time in a long time and it's the first time I noticed that. I'm not taking any meds like fin or dut. Should I start?
>>18701787Damn there's a lot of "time" I used here...
Talking about disasters. >>18701764Here's the nightmare I'm dealing, it's seb derm plus normal diffuse thinning? I'm double fucked.I'll have to get the cope monk bald look soon.>>18701782Take a look first...
>>18701787yes anon that's what happens when you blast light on short hair. but also yes you should start provided you're okay with the relatively low risk of serious sides.
>>18701791>Take a look first...I don't know why you think this changes anything on whether or not you could recover some. Unless you've been norwood 7 for 20 years, you can pretty much always recover some.
>>18698181I'm in the very early stages of losing hair. Not norwooding, but my scalp but not my back and sides are getting thinnerTell me about scalp massages. I'd rather not use pharmaceuticals if I can help it. I've seen youtubes and this post I screenshotted in case I ever needed it like right now
>>18701798just quarter fin into 0.25mg and take it every other day, no need to thank me
>>18701775Balding>>18701798You're not saving your hair without meds. Whats going to happen is you will do all of these snake oil, holistic medicine treatments and continue to lose hair. Eventually you will get on meds at a more advanced stage of loss, wishing you had started all the way back here when your loss was minimal.
>>18701797i just asked claude and ai slop and they think i wont recover anything. I am too shy to ask reddit so I had to ask you guys at least. To me that looks dire. The seb derm worsens the alopecia and so on so forth.
>>18701808Take the steps to treat it and find out what kind of results you get. Nobody or anything can tell you how you how well you will respond.
>>18701808AI is trained to be absurdly conservative on medical matters, just like actual doctors and researchers are. The rest of us can just speak frankly and say you're pretty much guaranteed to recover some hair with fin + min provided you actually stick with it for months of consistent use.
>>18701806>BaldingHow bad? What should I do to save my hair?
>>18701815Finasteride 1mg a day for a year. You can get prescribed same day by googling for a telehealth company in your country. Drb, Amazon pharmacy if you are in the US, avoid gimmicky ones like keeps and hims, they overcharge. After one year of finasteride reevaluate your hair and decide if your hair has improved enough. If not look into adding minoxidil. Your loss is early, but aggressive so you should be able to recover a good amount of density on fin alone. Don't delay or get other opinions, its textbook diffuse pattern hair loss and the longer you leave it untreated the more your results will vary.
>>18701838Shoot i worded this badly, finasteride is for life, just really pay attention to the first year before adding additional lifelong treatments which you may not need.
>>18701811>>18701810but how bad is it really? i know its bad?>>18701838>>18701842>>18701815>>18701806
>>18701844About half way to being bald. A little more in the wrong direction and it becomes a major problem. Treat it now while the conditions are still favorable.
>>18701838I heard it's better to use duta if you are in your early 20's and already balding. Should I use finasteride anyway?
>>18701848HALF WAY TO BALDING????
>>18701850It doesn't really matter they do the same thing dut is just more potent. In your position finasteride should be adequate, your hair isn't in that bad of shape.>>18701851Half way to being a bald guy. You're like a norwood ~3 out of 6 if we converted the norwood scale to represent pure diffuse loss.
>>18701854If I lose my hair, I'll be an incel for life for sure.
>>18701870Okay.
>>18701874So it is that bad? But how bad exactly? What if it can't be fixed? I can try but what if it doesn't work?
>>18701875Then you're fucked, Idk? It's very unlikely that it doesn't work out, the treatment options are proven to work for the majority of people.
I refuse to kill my dick just to have hair in my 30's. If I didn't make it by then it's all hopeless anyways.
>>18701902Do you genuinely believe that is what happens? That we're all finasteride enduced eunuchs?
>So it is that bad? But how bad exactly? What if it can't be fixed? I can try but what if it doesn't work?
>>18701914i cant grow a beard but thats me, a crying bald incel not even worthy to be a cuck.
>>18701909I'm seriously starting to question the anti-finasteride people these days. Is it just people starting too late and angry that they let it get so bad?
>>18701947
>>18701805>>18701806I'm nowhere near the point where I have to seriously worry about losing my hair, it's thinning, sure but not balding if that makes senseI'll work the massages while I'm on the pooper instead of scrolling youtube shorts and if it doesn't work I'll look into minoxidil and keep going harder until it works
>>18702115Actually scratch that I took a picture and it's code red
>>18702149Nothing some massages can't fix
>>18702115>I'm nowhere near the point where I have to seriously worry about losing my hair, it's thinning, sure but not balding if that makes senseAnon that's the best time to take it. Prevent, not cure. People don't say "Oh my cancer is stage one, I don't need to seriously worry about it" my brother in christ you're on the road to terminal, the only difference is between recovery and prolonging the inevitable. The longer you wait, the less chances of restoring your hairline.
>>18702149>>18702170>>18702171Aight this pic and your post convinced me. Minoxidil and dermarolling it is
>>18701775ooof it's over im afraid
>>18702197No way...
Why are we not trying >0.5mg doses of dutasteride? I know there is that one zoomer perm on YouTube that advocates for 2.5mg. I completed a month of daily 0.5mg dutasteride and felt completely fine after suffering from taking 1mg finasteride daily. I'm not sure if it's too soon to tell if I'm in the clear, but I think I want to try upping to 1mg dut now. How soon can you get a refill from Dr. B for 90ct dut?
>>18702215Because according to Olsen, 2.5mg is barely any better than 0.5 after the 24 weeks threshold. Realistically we need something like 5+mg for a more than 10% increase in efficacy vs 0.5mg Dut. Problem is that GSK never did/finished their trials for Avodart regarding hair loss for some reason despite Dut arguably being a more modern and efficacious version of Finasteride. You also gotta take Dut for 6 months straight to get a stable concentration in your body due to its lipophilic nature.
>>18702215it would be a pain doing 5 pills. no one is going to do a 5mg pill for dut. I know what you might say - compounding but compounding costs way more than generic shit.
I'm on my 6th day of .5mg duta...when do the supposed bad libido effects come in? I feel like I've been hornier. Also I tried 2.5mg oral min twice but I think it's too much for me. Like I got palpitations ont he second try.
>>18702407Dut doesn't pass the blood brain barrier the way fin does, so in many people's cases it won't affect their libido that's largely a psychological process.
has anyone here ACTUALLY had fin side effects? or is it fake news....
>>18702424I've had watery jizz for the first week or so. Libido is also a bit lower.
>>18702424It's mostly fake news. See Haircafe's channel (sperg who listened to the fearmongering for years until he finally learned to read the studies and see how safe it was)
>>18702419Increased libido was the only thing I noticed. Tapered down back to normal or I just got used to it at this point.
>>18702407Start with 1.25mg or less and work your way up, there's an initial break in period for oral min. Worst case scenario just stick with 1.25, its better than nothing especially if topical isn't working.
>>18702537Is it still worth using topical when you use oral?
I bought duta. Now I can save my hair. Now everything will be fine.
>>18702549Depends on your oral dose. You can equate a single topical dose of 1ml equivalent to roughly 1.25mg of oral. If you're on a low dose of oral it can be worth it, otherwise at 5mg or so I wouldn't think it would be worth the hassle.
What's the extra ar stuff that dutasteride lowers that fin doesnt? don't I need that?
>>18702734Type 1 5AR enzyme. And no, people report less side effects on Dut (smaller sample size and not as commonly used as Fin, to be fair), so evidently inhibiting the Type 1 enzyme is perfectly fine. Some people report better skin.
I just realized that Dut (and also fin) increase free testosterone in the bloodstream. This makes sense since the conversion from T to DHT is blocked. It seems there is an increase of 10-20% testosterone on average. That seems like an underreported aspect of DHT blockers and many men would likely take these for that benefit alone.
>fin>rare known side-effects>x100 overdose does not lead to problems>still needs prescriptionWhy?
>>18702942yeah but it's not how it works exactly, fin and dut lead to feminisation (good)>>18702950almost all drugs do because of interactions and stuff but you can just diy it>>18702594good luck!>>18702424imma be honest I almost thought it was the reason I had zero sperm but it turns out I'm intersex>>18701902fin did nothing for my libido, certainly nothing compared to other drugs I take
>>18702950oh also it fucks up women if they get it and can cause birth defects if you give it to pregnant women which is why it's prescription
I just found out that Finasteride is often used to treat BPH in mammals like dogs if neutering isn’t possible. WTF? DHT is truly trash.
>>18702956>fin and dut lead to feminisation (good)No they don't and kindly kys (polite) friend.
>>18702963gyno, reversed hair loss, softened skin, lack of acne, clearer skinthey're all but one a good thing
>>18702950It generally leads to no problems in men after puberty. Believe it or not, people outside of this category exist.
>>18702942Free test doesn't particularly matter if it's not below normal range.What matters most is adrogen receptor density, and you're not reaching the insane test levels needed to saturate them fully without roids.
>28>Norwood 3 on the way to 4I've been buzzing it since 20, shaving it since I was 23. I started balding at 18. It hasn't been much of an issue for me, I'm not super concerned with my looks or vanity and think I look fine otherwise but recently I have been thinking it has made me look a lot older than I really am. I find myself getting less attention for women too now that I clearly don't look as young. Is it too late to salvage my hair without surgery? What options are available at this point?
>>18703164NW4 is going to need a nuclear stack like Dutasteride 0.5mg daily and 5mg oral minoxidil (topical works but you will need to douse your entire scalp in it, which is a commitment - if your Norwood was lower then you'd only use it at the hairline) and a good hair transplant on top of that, but you can get to NW2.>recently I have been thinking it has made me look a lot older than I really am. Well, yeah. The incidence of a teenager with even a NW2 hairline is like 1 in 300. Balding is associated with aging, even though it's completely seperate and a man without the balding gene will have thick hair his whole life. This YouTube chef guy is fucking 30 years old with the hairline of a 14 year old. He's already handsome, but it's insane how much good skin and hair can do for your looks.
>>18702957>pregnant womenlike a half of all over-the-counter medication is explicitly forbidden to not be taken by pregnant women, yet no prescription necessary>>18702968>pubertycertain over-the-counter painkillers are dangerous to kids yet no prescription necessaryit's clear ((they)) want most men to be bald and leave no offspring, all for agenda 2030that or ((doctors)) want their cut
>>18703174>it's clear ((they)) want most men to be bald and leave no offspring, all for agenda 2030>that or ((doctors)) want their cutIf someone had told me at 18 that in order to never go bald I just had to take a medication that costs $30 dollars per year, and that Fin works forever, I'd go back and do it from the day I turned 18. We all fucking would - the people fear mongering about Fin are on the Internet, Big Pharma and doctors don't care.
>>18703178The trolls used to be relentless about fin back in the day. Just accounts on forums dedicated to how you basically become chemically castrated.
>>18703178yep
>>18703171So I still need hair transplant anyways and its still only gonna last two years? Don't know if surgery's worth it
>>18703290Transplanted hair is going to last forever because it's from the eternal band of hair on the back/sides of your head. You need meds to keep the rest of the hair on top of your head, instead of your hair receding behind what was transplanted. Try meds only for a year and see what they do for you before getting your transplant.
>>18698181>DHT, a byproduct of testosterone that serves no purpose after pubertyI hope you don't actually believe this.
>>18703320I do. It's trash.
>>18703323>4chan told me I don't need DHT and there's nothing wrong with decimating my body's production so it must be true
>>18703320what evidence do you have otherwise
>>18703332Fin made me bisexual in just 2-3 pills, and another round of pills brought me on the verge pf gay but after years of abstinence i'm back to bi
>>18703334lol
>>18703332Asking something like that just tells me that you've never tried to look into it yourself and are just blindly following the other blind people in these threads. Here is a very small sample of the decades of research on the effects of DHT.>DHT, not testosterone, is the active androgen in the heart and brain>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ar.1092230410>Declining DHT causes cardiovascular disease>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36693531/>Raising DHT reverses systemic atherosclerosis>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37053049/>DHT treats thyroid cancer>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34422798/>DHT stop the aging of pancreatic beta-cells>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33474846/>DHT works better than testosterone at improving blood pressure and insulin sensitivity>https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article-abstract/24/12/2149/20634/Androgen-Therapy-Improves-Insulin-Sensitivity>DHT treatment restores anabolism and sexuality in 70-90 year old men>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13242770/
>>18703337>zero peer-reviewed studies
>>18703344Gonna go ahead and accept your concession on his behalf.
>>18703345keep losing hair, bro
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kNvF1mRrk2I
>>18703344The fuck are you on about? It's telling that you don't have any rebuttal except this sort of absurd lie. I'm not going to hold your hand for each one I posted but we'll take>DHT treats thyroid cancer>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34422798/as an example. This was published in Frontiers in Cell and Developmental Biology. We can take a little trip over to frontiers and find>https://www.frontiersin.org/about/how-we-publish>All articles we publish are peer reviewedI saw that someone else already accepted your concession but I'll also be accepting it. But before I go, here's some more, leading off with one you'll really like:>Topical DHT promotes hair growth>https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6989660/>DHT is curative in treatment resistant breast cancer>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01168-7>DHT is negatively associated with death from prostate cancer>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pros.23991>DHT is a potent estrogen antagonist>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6542571/This one might explain why you guys always react to the fact like hysterical women; you have literally pumped your estrogen levels through the roof by suppressing your DHT.>Inhibition of DHT causes "severe hypothyroidism">https://genesandnutrition.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12263-017-0555-5
>>18703359thank you
wish i had got on fin/dut in time
>>18703393everyone wishes that, I got on at NW2 and got halfway to NW1 over years but that box shaped hairline is never coming backbest time was while you were NW1, second best time is now
>>18703393I did, as soon as I had hair loss at 19 I started fin. worth it but I don't take it anymore because I think it was mainly job stress
>>18703401nw2 isn't even a real norwood stfu you fucking hair-haver
If you're nw5-6 realistically how much can you claw back best case scenario going full duta oral min
>>18703411It depends if you were a slow receder or experienced overall thinning throughout the midscalp. You would be surprised at how much one can gain back if they experienced the latter. Otherwise only one way to find out really, nobody responds exactly the same to treatment.
>>18703414Are you saying slow receding is a good or bad thing? And what would count a slow?
>>18703422Bad. Decades.
>too much test to keep hair>not enough test to grow a nice beardshould I just cancerpatientmaxx?
>>18703498isn't the solution to just take duta or fin and put minox on your face?
>>186985670.5 or 1mm micro-needle, king?
>>18703174>like a half of all over-the-counter medication is explicitly forbidden to not be taken by pregnant womenThe consequences of going against the recommendation for OTC drugs are not nearly as severe as the potential birth defects to male fetuses from taking fin during a pregnancy.>certain over-the-counter painkillers are dangerous to kids yet no prescription necessarySome can have rare side effects, not stunt development 10 times out of 10 like fin does.Is the nuance of making some drugs prescription only based on their much higher risk of much more severe side effects while letting others be OTC is the side effects are milder/rarer really too hard to grasp?>it's clear ((they)) want most men to be bald and leave no offspring, all for agenda 2030>that or ((doctors)) want their cutYes I'm sure it's all a grand conspiracy to make people pay maybe $50 for one consultation with the derm and then $10 per month for a fucking generic with no patent on it. Clearly this is too prohibitive to the average, functional member of society, the derm barely knows what to do with their single meal ticket they got from you and big pharma might even afford a netflix sub from all the money they siphoned away from your wallet. Clearly this cannot continue, we should let the average retarded teen get sexual dysfunctions for life because their favorite influencer mentioned fin instead.
Anyone use topical tretinoin for hair regrowth? The idea is that it upregulates sulfotransferase which is the enzyme that makes minoxidil most effective.
>>18703359>estrogenthe amount of estrogen increase is negligible and doesn't even compare to that of a TRT user, and most TRT users don't even use an aromatase inhibitor.
>>18703582I just use it for anti-aging anyways and smear it slightly past the hairline. Can't tell you if it made a difference or not because i was already on tret before going on topical min, but it did extend my hairline by quite a few short-ish hair, been a year now.
>>18703411Generally you can recover 0.5 to 1 nw above what you started with, so 5-6 will become 4-5 in the very best case.
>>18698567Oral minoxidil costs nothing. Why the fuck are you drinking it.
>>18703640its $45 a month where i live>>187035221mm
>>18703708damn dude, that sucks. where do you live? like state or country, not trying to heckin dox you.
Hope everything is nova and you're all having a 'preme week
>>18703582Nope no one has ever done that. Fake news.
>>18703845Not funny, faggot.
Does fin actually cause gyno?
>>18704009It's incredibly unlikely to happen to you if that's what you're worried about, but yes there technically is a very very small risk.
>>18704013yeah cuz i heard up to 25 percent of all gynecomastia cases in adults relate to drugs or substances. i think gyno is an underreported side effect because people usually don't know if they're getting it
>>18704009Rarely to almost never. The only way shit like gyno and dick problems is if you already have a hormonal imbalance. Now, Dutasteride is the drug that has a higher chance of side effects, but it also has a higher rate of hair restoration.
>>18703411Hate to say this anon, but at that level of Norwood you are fucked without a transplant or miracle response to drugs. Christopher Nolan obviously uses Propecia/Avodart which is why his hair is so thick and his hairline is not further receding, but his NW4 hairline and bare temples are not flattering in the least.
>>18702191Minoxodil is a helper not a root-cause-blocker. You are balding because your body is producing DHT which builds up in the scalp, shrinking and eventually killing your follicles. Minoxodil stimulates growth, but does not resolve this fundamental issue. You will be swimming upstream until something gives. DHT blockers are the only way to lock your hair in.
>>18700204its not $10. Even just looking at cost of reagents, at best it is closer to $200. This isn't factoring in the labor required to do the sequencing run, and the interpretation of results. If I went to a medical practice and asked to get my genome sequenced, I will probably be paying thousands of dollars to get that information.
>>18700202ok? they can take finasteride too, but hopefully we will have better meds by then.
>>18704105You still need minoxidil with Finasteride, though. I burned through my minoxidil tablets too fast and have been out of them for almost a month. I don’t get my refill until next week. It caused a tiny bit of progression loss on the temples but the Finasteride is acting as a slight defense.Protip: four 2.5 mg pills is overkill and wasteful. Two a day is best. One works nearly as good as two. Thankfully insurance covers minoxidil tablets.
>>18704020Lol its the one side you would certainly know you were getting with physical proof.
>>18704020>yeah cuz i heard up to 25 percent of all gynecomastia cases in adults relate to drugs or substances.The vast majority of those are from anabolic steroids through aromatization into estrogen. Not how fin works.
I thought fin gave me ED but my girlfriend is just butt ugly
>>18704146is that what you take? 5mg a day or oral min?
I’ve been using tretinoin, minoxidil, and finasteride for 9 months now. I haven’t regained any ground on my crown. Where do I go from here?
>>18704385add estrogen
>>18704385oral min
>>18704386Nah>>18704389I was thinking about it. Maybe I should switch to dutasteride too.
>>18704396yeah do dut
>>18704396be aware DUT not only has a shedding phase but a loading phase as well, you should stay on Fin for at least 3 months while on DUT
>>18704385That sucks but stay at it for at least another 6 months to a year. Then consider HT.
>>18704413whats a loading phase? can you give the timeline of all phases?
>>18704425It's broscience. All that matters is 5AR enzyme suppression and both Fin/Dut work do that within days, not months. Half-life of the drug doesn't matter.
When do you start dut + oral min + topical min + dermarolling to pull off picrel at 50? At 3yo?
>>18704413>source: trust me broAsk your doctor instead of asking literal whos on a mongolian throat singing forum, holy shit
>>18704506That type of thickness is only for guys who are NW0-NW1, so when you were 18 or whenever puberty ended for you.
now that i started getting bald i pay more attention to people's hairlinestoday i saw a little kid, maybe 4 years old, and his temples are already NW3-tierhow tf is nature this cruelhe has no idea about the importance of hair but it's already over for him, never started even
>>18704512I was NW3 by the time I hit 18. Sometimes I feel tempted to say "you guys had it good" or "you guys were so lucky", but that's statistically laughable. It's more that I'm cursed and that god hates me.
anyone else here suffer from stagnated diffuse thinning? I lost like 20% of my hair 6 months after turning 18, then nothing happened for 10 years and its suddenly thinning again, particularly the back of my head
>>18704519Hahaha same, except I'm disabled on top of that. So I'm not really desired by women.
>>18704448Not bro science at all, in fact its why so many people on DUT think it isn’t working after switching from FIN, there’s two shedding phases, one from going without DHT suppression for the first 3 months and the other from the DUT actually beginning to work
>>18704641>there’s two shedding phases, one from going without DHT suppression for the first 3 months This does not happen, the 5AR enzyme (and therefore DHT) is ALWAYS suppressed with daily use of Fin/Dut. The reason you shed on Dutasteride after switching is that your hair follicles start a new cycle in a healthier scalp environment, with less 5AR activity in the scalp. Serum DHT steadiness doesn't matter.
>>18704448>>18704647>All that matters is 5AR enzyme suppression and both Fin/Dut work do that within days, not months.Both compounds require weeks to reach stable, continous levels in the bloodstream and then month to fully bind to and saturate scalp tissues. The "instant" suppression you get isn't enough to matter.>Serum DHT steadiness doesn't matter.Scalp DHT comes from both local conversion and circulation. This is akin to saying steady delivery chains don't matter for the grocery store to be stocked.
>>18704710>Both compounds require weeks to reach stable, continous levels in the bloodstream And serum DHT is irrelevant. Dut is lipophilic and binds IRREVERSIBLY to 5AR. >and then month to fully bind to and saturate scalp tissues. >The "instant" suppression you get isn't enough to matter.>Scalp DHT comes from both local conversion and circulation. You have it bass ackwards. Your scalp follicles respond to your current level of 5AR, because DHT is constantly created using 5AR from Testosterone in the scalp, it isn't stored. When 5AR is suppressed, that's all it takes for your follicles to be in a low DHT environment. What you're saying based on the clinical data or action of the drug/5AR in the body is nonsense. You don't need to have a steady state because DHT isn't suppressed by the drug, it's going to a step before that, inhibiting the enzyme from which DHT is synthesized from Testosterone. It's working upstream of DHT. New DHT synthesis on your scalp fails within days and stays supressed as long as you take Fin/Dut daily.
>>18704719No. Due to its long half-life (~5 weeks), the drug builds up over time. You reach ~65% of steady-state levels after 1 month and ~90% after 3 months (full steady state can take 3-6 months).
>>18704719Finasteride is considered nearly irreversible in its binding to 5ar.
What's your protocol for applying topical min? Mine is 2 applications per day>shower before day>towel dry hair, leave it a bit moist, can't be fucked to hairdryer before bed, don't think a bit of moisture matters>apply tret to the face and slightly past the hairline>spray fin with the long nozzle directly onto the scalp in several spots (hairline, top of the head, behind temples, back of the head)>massage it in>after work>spray close to skin as well>don't massage it in as it fucks up the hairstyle, do head rotations to let in spread around close to the skin insteadI'm honestly not sure which method is more effective, don't think there are actual studies on this. Massaging it in means better coverage, but it also results in a lot of the product ending up on the hairs themselves, which makes it useless. Doing head rotations is something i came up with myself, it keeps the product mostly on the scalp, but probably results is spotty coverage. Not sure how much it matters.
>>18704862>>shower before daybed*
>>18704862just take a few drops on your tongue, done, jesus mate
>>18704862The moisture is going to dilute the minoxidil. If you’re going to use it then why not try to get the best results?
>>18704869Sorry, i like my cardivascular system too much. No reason to go systemic and subject yourself to perm vasodilation if you respond to topical, other than sacrificing your health to be lazy, but that's something a retard would do. Are you a retard?
>>18704873>The moisture is going to dilute the minoxidil.It's still the same amount of product on the skin that is given about 8 hours to absorb. In fact, water increases skin permeability, so a bit of moisture should increase absorption. I'm pretty sure the recommendation to dry the scalp completly is just to make sure people don't apply it to a truly wet scalp, to the point where the min can't actually settle on the skin.
>>18704873>>18704880i wet my hair, or finish showering, then pat dry my hair. Then use the minox foam. Instead of putting it in my hand I apply smaller squeezes to the portions of my scalp I want and then I rub it all in. I find that unless my hair is wet to some degree the minox will all just get absorbed into the hair like a sponge and significantly less of it makes it to the scalp. Hair is like a sponge thats why its used for paintbrushes. If you hair is already full of something the minox can easier get to your scalp and you rub it in. Then as well and really pressing down on the hair and shimmiing it a little with your fingers and hands so that you squeeze everything down onto your scalp. I'm fine with regular drops if i'm out of foam but i buy that stuff for my face. I hope it doesn't destroy my skin I've only been doing it since jan but my skin doesn't seem to care.
>>18704874you realize topical goes systemic as well right?
>>18704880>It's still the same amount of product on the skinAre you brown by any chance?
>>18704855But what does that mean since new 5ar is produced relatively quickly
>>18704972Yeah I don' really know what point he was trying to make there.
>>18704813Steady-state doesn't equal effectiveness on hair follicles. Clinical studies don't show that hair follicles/the prostate are exposed to baseline DHT for 3 months before Dutasteride has an effect. Effectiveness is based on how much of the 5AR enzyme (type 2) is inhibited by the drug. Dutasteride suppresses more than Finasteride, which is why it's more effective. This process (inhibiting 5AR) happens in a day or two, and there is no "reflux hyper-androgenicity" for your hair follicles to synthesize more DHT. Your serum levels of the drug are also irrelevant, because it works on 5AR immediately. The half-life of the drug is ONLY relevant if you want to quit the drug at some point, to recover back to baseline DHT levels. >>18704855>>18704972>>18704991You're so close. Finasteride also irreversibly binds to 5AR. 5AR is needed to synthesize DHT. Therefore, in the chain that gets you DHT, these drugs work upstream of DHT to suppress its conversion from Testosterone. https://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~pbarfuss/gisleskog1998.pdf
How would you guys rate my hairline/Norwood level?
>>18705039>You're so close. Finasteride also irreversibly binds to 5AR. 5AR is needed to synthesize DHT. Therefore, in the chain that gets you DHT, these drugs work upstream of DHT to suppress its conversion from Testosterone.Not sure what you mean by close. We know what 5AR does but the point is that fin binding "irreversibly" to 5AR enzymes doesn't mean much when new 5AR enzymes are produced all the time so when you stop fin those new enzymes won't be bound and the "irreversibly" bound enzymes will be long gone.
>>18705105>know what 5AR does but the point is that fin binding "irreversibly" to 5AR enzymes doesn't mean much when new 5AR enzymes are produced all the time As long as you take Fin/Dut daily, those 5AR enzymes stay suppressed. The half-lives and steady state only matter for how long it takes your system to clear the drug and thus return tobaseline 5AR activity. The drugs themselves don't need a "peak" level in the serum to have maximal effect.
>>18705104You're a chick? Looks like a normal, albeit high hairline. Norwooding in men usually starts at the temples and leaves the middle intact (but shrinking over time)
>>187043645mg is what I took. 2.5mg was just to see if I got a reaction or not. Only downside was water retention for the first two weeks.I upped my dosage taking four, which was basically a waste and made me out of pills until sometime next week. Insurance denied my early refill, so all I can do is wait. It’s been nearly a month. It caused a bit of shedding on the temples, causing a minor setback, but continuing finasteride normally slowed down that gains loss.The good news is that when I get my refill, it is said the rebound is phenomenally fast, though there is a chance of a second routine shedding like the one everyone normally gets.Four is overkill and a waste of pills. Two works great. One works nearly as good as two. It’s best to just have a steady consistent stream of daily minoxidil pills.
>>18705156I wouldn't say that looks normal. You can see recession in the center. Could be alopecia.
Could the "balding itch" be mostly a psychological thing, if not a fungal infection?
new barber just gave me an awful cut. didn't hide my norwood like the usual guy does. it's my own fault I guess but i'm still PISSED.
>>18705530buy a baseball cap
>>18704921You realize topical absorption that goes systemic is a fraction of oral, which is the entire point of topical application of literally any drug ever, right? We're talking about 1-5% vs 100%. Why even bring it up?>>18704939Are you? Do you think that, if you dilute a spoon of salt in a liter of water instead of 100 ml and drink it all, you somehow consumed 10 times less salt? Please go in great detail about this "dilution" and the mechanism of action that prevents min from absorbing in the presence of moisture if it's contacting the skin.>>18704893>If you hair is already full of something the minox can easier get to your scalp and you rub it in.This is plausible, i haven't considered it. Wish there were studies on this.
>>18705104Norwood is a scale for male pattern baldness, doesn't apply to female hairlines.
>>18705595it does. if they carry the genes there's still enough DHT to rape the temples.
>>18705602No nigger, female hair follicles have a fundamentally different response to hormones. They can get fucked up by DHT all the same if it's especially high somehow which is exceedingly rare outside of varbies, but the pattern is different still.Notice how it's all diffuse and there's no loss to the hairline specifically in relation.
>>18705602>>18705607Forgot to add, they even have their own fucking scalehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_scale
no it isn't. it still starts at the temples. you're retarded and have no clue what your'e talkign about.
>>18705612>is provided with picture evidence>is provided with an entirely different scale meant for female pattern loss>still in denialit's okay little buddy we're all wrong from time to time, no need to be a salty bitch about it
>>18705612Stop embarrassing yourself m8.
>>18705622>Many women do not actually fit into the Ludwig stages.read what you post faggot.
>>18699696don't listen to the same people who probably took 5 scamdemic vaxxes, if you go bald, either go for the trevor from gtav look, or just go jason statham and shave it off for max efficiencyeither way, if you're balding then most likely the DHT in your body will give you a sick beard instead, so you can be one of those bald bearded fellas
>>18705738https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d2EG3DUvgBk
>>18705738My beard gainz stopped the exact moment I started fin and haven't budged an inch in 10 years. The beard also grows slower and the hairs don't seem as hard/thicc anymore.
>>18705739cope harder with overpriced pharmaceuticals that do (almost) nothing, instead of socrates baldmaxxing
>>18705743https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FuUrSXJUkE
>>18705741it's certainly the tradeoff, brother
>>18705744https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC4ixGKJHRU
>>18705747https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SK78RdlD5hc
>feel itchy on the crown>scratch a bit>2 hairs stuck to the hand.................. GOOOOD DAAAAAAAMN IIIT
>>18705730Yeah and some men don't fit into norwood, doesn't mean they fit into ludwig. Are you done being a clown?
>>18699696No, it's just bad, but it's on a precipice of very bad and could possibly recover to alright, which is the critical point to start prevention.
>>18699668I hope the meds do you well anon. Getting bald in early 20 is brutal.
i dont get why ppl are afraid of hormonal changes with fin, femboys are often VERY hung, horny and easily get hard
>>18705750THEY DO YOU FUCKING RETARD.
I just had my first hair dye, light blondeHoly fuckkkWill the redness settle down for the next days? Holy fuck
What about a dude who claimed baldness is due to scalp tension? Any news on that?
>>18704385rope
>>18699668>>18699696It's really bad.
>>18705791After rinsing them with cold water and using a moisturizing cream it looks a bit betterAt least the positive thing, my receding temples look better now with my hair pulled back
>>18705592Its a fraction of a 50mg dose. Twice daily application of 1ml topical has roughly the same systemic absorption as 2~2.5mg oral.
>>18705738why would DHT give you a beard. I don't think ti works like that
>>18705831the redness was probably irritation from dying. i wonder if they make toppik in that color, probably not
>>18705837>the redness was probably irritation from dyingTheir fucking color removal cream was on me for like 2h30, probably a bit too much First application was supposed to be 40min but I they left me for more than an hour, they did a second application because it wasn't light enough for 30min before applying the color>i wonder if they make toppik in that colorSupposedly they do
>>18705592The more you dilute the drug the less will be concentrated in the hair follicle. There’s a reason 5% is more effective than 2%.
>>18705831You look like an old man, unc
>>18705833The difference is the amount of minoxidil in your blood at any given moment. The pill will spike in your blood levels while the topical will be negligible.
>>18706005The peak serum level for oral is only about an hour before it quickly drops off back to baseline. Topical is still approaching the post 2 hour peak levels steadily through gradual systemic absorption over 22 hours. The tradeoff isn't as great as you think..
>>18705835m8 you can literally just take part of what you wrote and google it for instant results>DHT give you a beard
>>18705786Okay, I see you want to continue being a clown. Lets see an example of norwood scale being used to classify balding in a female in a clinical context then. Throw the pubmed links at me.Are you some tranny triggered by different balding patterns between sexes shattering your entire worldview or something? It's a weird hill to die on.
>>18706171Nta but for what its worth I've seen women who most certainly meet the norwood scale and pure diffuse thinning men on the ludwig
>>18706437even with a vegeta hairline she's kinda bad ngl
>take pills>smear shit on head>hair regrows>no sidesmeanwhile incels debate about 90 year olds regrowing hair with topical dht
I don't understand the posts where a dude is pretty much bald and asks>is there hope for me?DUDE this does not happen overnight, what were you doing for years leading to this? OK fine moving from NW2 to NW3 may be not obvious if it's slow, but a bald patch on the crown is an huge loud red alarm to get your shit together ASAP.
>>18706485Its easy to cope and tell yourself and others that you will just shave it off when it gets bad enough. When you actually reach that point you have a revelation and panic.
>>18706050That spike in serum minoxidil levels is what they believe causes heart issues with oral minoxidil. That’s why there are drug companies working on extended release forms of minoxidil.You can literally just google this shit.
>>18706511Can't you split the pill (or whatever, never took min) and take them over time?
>>18706529Yeah you could just take a little chunk of pill every couple of hours.
>>18706511The spike is what results in minoxidil reaching ample follicles. You don't need a lot to trigger prolonged anagen. A steady serum level is not effective otherwise non responders to topical would see similar results to low dose oral (1.25 2.5), which they certainly do not.
>>18706511Furthermore extended release minoxidil is a scam to make profit off of the stagnation of hair loss treatments of the past 30 years and I will die on this hill. There is a reason VDPHL01 trials were strictly forbidding anybody with prior use of oral or topical minoxidil from participating, I hope you have the reading comprehension to figure out why before you end up another rube.
>>18706529it has a pretty short half-life so you'd have to nibble on pills every now and then
>>18706576Low iq
>>18706732I'm sorry you were taken for a ride. At least you learned the truth before wasting your money on the next miracle cure. Otherwise provide evidence to the contrary, ill wait.
>>18706839You’ll wait for these nuts in your mouth
>>18706485i never looked at the top of my head and no one told mei didnt have any hairline recession
nuevo threado>>18707511
>>18706511People take sterioids for decades and are fine, i think oral minoxidil is okay
