/balding/ and /finasteride/ general - hair is love, hair is life!Sticky: http://tuxbell.com/index.php/BaldingReminder that if you can clearly see down to your scalp when your hair is wet, your hair is thinning, lots of small new hairs sprouting at the hairline or crown is a sign of hair recession.Holy trinity:Tabs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinasterideLotion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinoxidilShampoo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KetoconazoleFinasteride/Dutasteride are 5-alpha reductase inhibitors that prevent free T from being converted to DHT, a byproduct of testosterone that serves no purpose after puberty but to choke out your hair follicles and make them thin out and die in a few short years, a condition known as androgenic alopecia.5ar inhibitors prevent your hair from getting any worse, mild regrowth is expected, rapid onset diffuse thinners see a significant recovery on fin alone. Can be taken orally or topically.5ARIs are not dosage dependent, taking as little as as 0.2mg daily fin can reduce serum DHT by 68%, while 5mg reduces by 72%.0.5mg daily dut reduces serum DHT by 95%, but is considered a second line treatment, and can be more expensive and harder to get prescribed. Start with fin.Fin has been used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) for 30+ years, it's very well studied and is tolerated well in almost all men, however, there's a 1-2% risk of erectile issues in controlled studies.These can be avoided by reducing dosage, spacing out dosage, or stopping the drug. Fin takes days to fully bio-accumulate, the half life of fin is about 8 hours, adverse effects occuring within minutes of starting fin or persisting long after stopping fin are not real and have no basis in reality. Please note that dut has a much higher half-life of 5 weeks, if you're prone to fin sides, dut may cause them for far longer.Refer to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/ before responding to PFS trolls.
Minoxidil (liquid and tabs) is a vasodialator that opens potassium channels and widens blood vessels bringing nutrients to your hair follicles, stimulating them into thickening, accelerating growth and elongating the growth phase. Min is taken with fin to restore your hair to it's original hairline, thickness and vigor when hair loss is caught early enough, (pre-NW2). Can be taken orally or topically.Topical min does not work in 1/3 of men because they lack the required enzymes in their scalp, all men have this enzyme in their liver so the oral route is a good fallback.The FDA formulation for 5% liquid minoxidil is food safe (vape juice, ethanol and water) and can be safely taken orally if oral min tabs are expensive or rarely prescribed where you live. As a general rule, ~4 drops (0.1ml) = 5mg minoxidil.There's a 1-2% risk of fluid retention with higher oral dosages, start with the lowest dosage possible and work your way up when you're sure it's well tolerated.Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen and antifungal that inhibits DHT on the scalp and used to treat fungal infections of the scalp that may be making your hair loss worse such as seborrheic dermatitis, a condition where you exhibit severe greasy, flaky large dandruff flakes with dried yellow crystals (blood plasma) embedded in the scalp. Some people may only have traction alopecia (hair loss from scratching or friction), but it will not cure androgenic alopecia on it's own. Can only be taken topically.Do not use spirolactone. Spirolactone is a diuretic which, in large doses, inhibits testosterone and, by extension, DHT.It is regularly prescribed as an anti-androgen for male to female HRT, and thus, comes with an astronomically higher risk of sexual side effects in men including ED, gynecomastia, and can cause potassium toxicity.Previous thread:https://boards.4chan.org/fa/thread/18752020#top
>>18770192I have been taking the fin since 2021 when I was 23. On 5mg tablets and I take like 3 a week. My my dick still works. Can get hard with a thought. Still get the morning wood etc. No gyno but I've always been lean. I don't think I'm genetically predisposed to it. My hair has been healthy ever since. I was probably a norwood 2, either that or like a 1.5. After a couple months the hairline reverted back to the level it was when I was a teenager. Will have to come off it if I want to try for a kid though. We'll see how that goes.
>>18770209>Will have to come off it if I want to try for a kid though.Why?
>>18770216There's a very low chance that it could cause birth defects apparently. Can go back on after she's pregnant.
>>18770221NHS removed that bit but better safe than sorry I guess. It doesn't matter youw on't recede that much in say 6 months or however long it needs to leave the system.
>>18770221Myth, there isn't a single anecdote let alone proven research correlating male use of finasteride and birth defects. It can reduce sperm count in men leading to a tougher time conceiving if your partner is old, that's it. If the woman is taking it that's a different story.
anyone else get hair shedding on stims? i started vyvanse recently and its shedding my hair like crazy. i’m only on fin not min
>>18770676doesn't matter. if ur taking fin it's not because of MPB.
>>18770676You've been asking this forever. Go see a doctor and get tests done or stop taking it
>started out as Norwood 2 at 17 but pretty sure I had very thick hair >now 27, norwood 3 with some diffuse thinning at the front lately, might be related to a lot of stress at work the past few manths>been taking minoxidil since almost 2 years, religiously since 1 year What do anons? I'm scared shitless of finasteride, everyone says the percentage of sides is low but if you dig deeper it feels like almost everyone admits they have side effects to some degree >obviously especially scared of long term sides after dropping it or even pfs if it's real >then there's also the angle of a hair transplant, should I just do it ASAP or try being on meds for 1 year (for whatever reason)?>"just shave it bro">not really an option because I have practically zero beard growth and not a particularly strong chinWhat do anons? This topic has been bothering me for a fucking decade, with highs and lows. The past few months have obviously been one of the lowest lows due to the thinning. Picrelated gives you an idea, except with dark blond hair
>>18770855Ignore the first what do twice kek, a bit too much rambling while I was writing this Also note regarding the pic: I obviously grow out my hair longer in the middle and then basically do a side part. With some volume and partially brushing it back it looks alright but obviously not great
>>18770855if you want hair then you try fin, simple as that. i was worried about it too but i havent had side effects
>>18770192I'm 46 now, I started going bald in high school, started shaving my head completely in my early 20's. thank the lord I look good bald. when I was younger I considered being bald a curse, now I consider it a blessing.
>>18770895You had me until the end. Hair is always better than no hair, you were not blessed - you made the best of a bad situation.
>>18770897>Hair is always better than no hair,nah, I'd rather be completely bald than have a skullet or a bad comb over
>>18770900What is the official point of no return anyway? My gut feeling would say nw5+ because then you don't have enough hair to get to a regular hairline anymore, but then you got docs like zarev performing nw6 miracles
>>18770914A 3.5 can look like a "mature" hairline with proper styling and density. By 4 your crown is usually going so you'll be perpetually balding forever by halting it and by 5 you're done without getting lucky with regrowth.
>>18770193To this day I still don’t understand how costanza always made looking like a fat dork look so cool and stylish he was always layered and colored fucking on point
>>18770962That would be because simply wearing a collar shirt or trench coat is considered stylish nowadays so the bar was lowered so low that some fat dude wearing a collared shirt and jeans looks dressed up to you.
>>18770965Mother fucker who are you coming at like that??
How the fuck do you even live the 3 months after hair transplant when you have a job. Is every guy who gets transplants a trust fund neet or wfh programmer?
>>18771035Its not too obvious after a week or two. Wear a hat if you're going to be outdoors.
>>18771038>not too obviousinb4 fibers, the hair is too short during that phase for them to stick
>>18770855Taking minoxidil won’t stop hair loss. You need finasteride. There’s absolutely no reason to be scared of it. The side effects are extremely rare and reverse after stopping. That’s the only way to guarantee hair stays and doesn’t recess>hair transplantThat’s not going to do shit if you’re not on finasteride; you’ll continue to loss hair and need another transplant. Then you run out of donor hairs and are stuck with a giant bald spot but thick hair around it. There are only so many donor hairs that are dht resistant and not enough to cover a full head. You have to take fin or you’ll lose all your hair. Side effects are mostly if not entirely nocebo. Get over it.
>>18770855Anon I am going to be 100% honest with you right now.I was concerned about trying fin also, but decided to give it a shot and see how it goes. I have been taking it for about 1 year and a half now and had absolutely zero side effects.Literally nothing different, except that my hair stopped falling out and had regrowth.
>>18771035>How the fuck do you even live the 3 months after hair transplant when you have a jobBe /strongmind/, simple as The first few weeks people will snicker at you and talk behind your back Then it'll be barely a topic, maybe one off hand remark or two 6 months in the situation reverses, you'll get compliments and other men start thinking "fugg, maybe I should do it too"
>>18771039I was talking about the glowing red injury phase. This is just cosmetic.
Am I cooked or fine? 29
>>18771404Maybe some slightly thinning at the corners, take a picture every 2 months and see if it is getting worse with time
29yo.It's over for me and I accept it.What I am struggling with is my head shape. Back of my head is completely flat, causing a "pointy" / elongated effect at the top.The space from my brow to the top of my skull is just as big as from my brow to my chin.Will shave all my shit smooth off at 30 and start using minoxidil on my beard. Can barely grow as much beard hair as a 16yo Mexican.
>>18771404You're literally a NW1 GTFO >>18771463Looks like diffuse thinning, so finasteride might do wonders
>>18771463Hardly over. You have a really bad skull shape like IT the clown you should be doing everything to save your hair.
>>18771404Fine where it is, but that's the thing. It wouldn't hurt to take fin to keep it where it is, you weren't born with that hairline after all.
>>18771574>telling guys with a perfect hairline to take fin You guys really like being diabolical huh
>>18771604He's a norwood 1-1.5. You aren't born that way, you recede into it and eventually further. If you want your hair to stay "perfect" you don't wait for it to get ravaged and play catchup for the rest of your life. You should know better.
>>18771606>You aren't born that wayYou are thirdie, this is a normal ass European hairline, not everyone is a Norwood -1 monkey
>>18771607What percentage of Europeans go bald exactly? I forget. A prominence of receded hairline couldn't be a correlation of the affliction affecting people, absurd!
>>18771607Oh right.. the "European hairline" is just a separate phenomenon. Now stop posting before you devolve into some weird nazi larp and embarrass all of us.
>>18771611>receding hairlineHis hairline isn't receding ffs that's just what a normal adult hairline with finer hair looks like
>>18771627We're not going to disregard the norwood scale because your feelings got hurt. As a norwood 1 you are balding, as a norwood 0 you are not. If you would like to stay as a norwood 1 then be proactive. A mature hairline (adult hairline) is often falsely attributed to a natural hairline, it's not, rather the point right before your recession is no longer aesthetic. Perpetuating your bro science crap just fucks people over.
>>18771634>As a norwood 1 you are baldingWeak bait
>>18771650What so you're not balding until you're a 2? How the fuck do you think you go from a 0 to a 1? The hair fairy comes and plucks your hairline when you turn into an adult? What a fucking idiot please just stop shitting up the thread.
Im nw2.5,I have good density, but my cut fucking sucks, I get laughed at and no match on dating apps. What cut should I ask for? I go to an expensive barber and have been trusting him but so far he's only been giving me bullshit like this, will add another pic to show hairline
>>18771690
>>18771690>no match on dating appsYou either take retarded pictures or you're a midget, your hair or face has nothing to do with it.
>>18771529>>18771556What are even my options? Finasteride seems to have a lot of sexual side effects. Plus from what I've read it only prevents further hair loss, not growing new / denser hair.I'm so fucking fed up with all of it. I hate the world and its expectations so much. At this point I want the world to see my fucked up head and raise my middle finger high in the sky, even if that makes me unattractivem. This fucking world isn't worth it anyway.
>>18771746Finasteride 1mg a day to halt further loss + No regrowth to mild regrowth all the way to substantial regrowth, won't know until you try, but usually results in the best case scenario for your type of baldness (Diffuse thinning).You will also want to take minoxidil, oral works best. This drug is currently the best option to reverse the thinning and does so very well when paired with finasteride as you don't need to fight a losing battle against further loss.Side effects occur at about a 1% incidence rate as per clinical trials, likely less so as "nocebo" wasn't factored in. That being said you can always take both medications topically to reduce the risk to essentially 0, though the hassle in my opinion is not worth such a marginal safety net.If you start now you'll probably have a healthy enough head of hair in a year from now that you won't need to consider shaving and can move on with your life. If you have any questions let me know I'm happy to help guide you down the right path.
>>18771771does minoxidil, the stuff you can just get at costco in the little bottles, have an expiration? feels like im going through it much slower than intended because im not dumping on my head and only taking 4 droplets a day orally.
>>18771783Yeah about 2 years. Best to change bottle every 6 months as oxygen exposure will degrade the minoxidil with repeated openings.
>>18771654No, you're receding. Dr Norwood himself said 3 is the first stage of balding
>>18771848Don't pretend like you don't know how semantics work.
>>18771851Anon, Norwood 0 is an internet meme to denote super low hairlines. The Norwood scale starts at 1, with 1 being "normal hairline, no balding". That's why the other anon said you're baiting, it takes like 5 seconds to google this
>>18771947No a norwood 0 is a juvenile hairline which represents no loss, it isn't represented on the norwood scale as it categorizes the stages of balding. A norwood 1-2 is colloquially known as a "mature" hairline which ranges from initial to late stage early recession (or balding). The terminology is antiquated as it originates from a time when hair loss wasn't as well understood and bro science was gospel. We use norwood 0 to denote what you consider incorrectly to be norwood 1.
>>18771947>>18771954actually 1 is either no loss or minor loss officially
>>18771955It can't be both. If its minor loss you're balding, which is what nw1 and mature hairlines are.
>>18771954Retardhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwood_scale#Stage_1>>18771956Once again retard, nw0 is not a real medical concept, it's just an internet meme. It's none or minor because at older years, some minor hair loss is absolutely natural and not part of a genetic phenomenon but just literal basic ass aging.
>>18771690finasteride + save up 3 grand.
>>18771980Your reading comprehension is so painfully slow that you disregarded everything said by multiple people for a Wikipedia article, proving my mothafucking point. I will spell it out for you as simple as possible for your fragile mind.The scale was created at a time when early stages of hair loss were considered a separate phenomenon to DHT related hair loss. As a result, in modernity we need a term to denote zero balding as we now know that all norwood stages present on the scale represent hair loss, including a 1.You can't use a norwood 1 to represent a perfect hairline, its an oxymoron. Where does picrel hairline sit on the norwood scale in relation to>>18771404?Both a 1 right?
>>18771980>some minor hair loss is absolutely natural and not part of a genetic phenomenon but just literal basic ass aging.What lol
>>18772073you can see Pitt has slight recession at the hair line there which most people have. Pitt's hairline looks like that solely because his temples reach far further than the other guy but they're both a NW1. this is about temples. genes dictate how far they go. most white people have shit temples that make the forehead look wide. what do you not understand.
>>18772083His temples reach further because they're not recessed as far lol. If Brad is a NW1 the other guy is a 2 with miniaturization on the hairline and receding temporal points. See how it doesn't work?By the way Brad is balding majorly now, seems he was on fin all along. Another "mature" hairline to cross off the list!
>>18772086no you idiot. i'm telling you it's determined by genetics. most white guys do not have the genetics for tempels of Pitt. the other guy is not a 2 not evne close. you're falling for lens distortion.
Anyone tried the HIMS chewable? Seems like the most straight forward option to me. I was using the peptide topical, knowing it probably wouldn't but but said "fuck it". I think I'm ready to try something that actually works.
>>18772088The genetics you refer to are the hair follicles susceptibility to DHT. You see during puberty DHT levels spike and as most Europeans carry the vulnerability to DHT and those hairline follicles are the weakest in terms of DHT resilience they miniaturize and fall out, no different to regular ass balding. There is no mythical age related balding or maturing, its the same exact process. When you go from your juvenile or NW0 hairline to a 1, you've lost your first line of defense and have made it onto the norwood scale.In terms of standard recession the further back from the hairline, the more resistant to DHT the follicles are though not immune once you have progressed to a 1 clearly. You are gambling with your genetics how long it will take for your follicles to submit to DHT. Some get unlucky where theyre incredibly susceptible and you get diffuse thinning.
>>18772091As long as it contains finasteride and minoxidil
Hollywood plays a HUGE part in the misconception that there is such a thing as a "mature" or "adult" hairline. All of these motherfuckers that people point to as examples are balding. If they would just be honest about their struggles more people would take the proactive approach.
Perhaps the greatest offender. Straight up lies non-stop about a mysterious serum, the strange thing is that he's not a transplantee either. Cycling meds? Wig? Fibers? Who knows. Catching a glimpse at his true hairline is almost impossible.
I noticed my corners had been losing density and hopped on fin at end of last year, I've been breaking 5mg tablets and taking a quarter every other day. Haven't had sides and seeing some regrowth. I'd say I'm around NW1.5 at worst and you can't tell I'm balding with my hairstyle, still I'm wondering if taking a quarter every day instead would improve regrowth (I know effect isn't linear), since I refuse to do minoxidil, it's a pain in the ass to apply.
Are the mental sideeffects of fin a meme too? Mostly worried about them desu
>>18772112If you measure further out you're effectively taking .60 to .80 mg a day by dosing EOD. The % change in DHT reduction is small but it does add up over the span of years.So yeah it would help to switch to ED maybe a lot, maybe a little, it may just take a while to fully appreciate the difference.>>18772113>mental sideeffectsLike?
>>18770192how come my palpitations from oral min stopped after a while? whats the scientiiic explanation for that
>>18772111Really weird transplant. Like they couldn’t decide whether to give him a “straight” turkey hairline or keep some of the M shape of a Norwood. It’s bizarrely in between those.
>>18772131According to some people, min starts being less effective after a while I had the same thing btw, had fairly noticeable heart palpitations for the first two months or so >>18770878>>18771045>>18771069Ok smartasses, assuming i start fin next week, when should i have the hair transplant?
>>18772091It’s overpriced as hell, both finasteride and minoxidil (what you need) are available as cheap generic drugs
>>18772131It's a reaction to sudden blood pressure changes by taking too high of a dose initially. Some people are more sensitive to oral min and the drop in blood pressure can cause them. It's why you start low and work up to full doses (ideally).
>>18772138You want to make sure you have gotten all that you can out of the drugs in terms of regrowth before opting for the transplant. You'll just be wasting precious donor follicles in areas which could potentially recover on their own. I would say a little over a year just to be certain and most competent surgeons will give you relatively the same timeframe.
>>18772144So basically start fin now, and also start messaging doctors now in turkey with the expectation I'll get a spot next autumn?
>>18772163Yeah. Just make sure you're checking testimonials and their transplant results, you need to be careful when selecting a clinic in the low end price range. Remember high volume of patients doesn't always translate into skill, you can't just slap a one size fits all hairline onto every head and expect them to all look good.
>>18772169Yeah I've done enough research, I think it's easy to avoid the hair mills, the trickier part is differentiating between less scummy and more scummy doctors. Some seem to have rumours of astroturfing or weird experiences
>>18772119>Like?Depression and memory
>>18772178The largest randomized clinical trial for finasteride found no statistically significant data correlating either of those alleged side effects to finasteride usage, even at the 5mg dose, 5x higher than what is used to treat hair loss.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4285451/>In summary, the findings by Irwig et al are quite disconcerting; however, even if the findings in these three articles by Irwig et al are accurate, this clearly only effects a small proportion of finasteride users. As stated above in the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial, none of the more than 17,000 participants experienced persistent sexual dysfunction or depression.The side effect doesn't even present once in 17,000 individuals. It's telling how none of these alleged side effects occur in controlled medical environments... only on the deepest, darkest corners of reddit.
>>18772186What is with memory problems due to neurosteroid reduction
>>18772176I can't help you there my knowledge is only cursory when it comes to weeding out the bad clinics. Hope it works out and good luck.
>>18772187Which specifically do you think factors into memory?
So I actually looked into the reason why supposedly only a subset gets fin side effect, and it seems to be related to aromatisation of testosterone. It's a fancy word for converting testosterone to estrogen. And if that's well pronounced in your body, then you have stronger side effects.So the question is, is there a way to test myself for that before I start fin?
>>18772195Even further research, seems like the ideal patient in terms of having side effects is this:> young> healthy (duh), so active and normal weight > high test > low estradiol> low shbg (relative to test)Basically minmaxing free test and estradiol as an indicator for whether you have high aromatization.
>>18771690>>18771692Nigga go to Asia, there's a cute 160cm Japanese girl that would treat you like a god for you out there.
>>18772195Just get bloodwork done and expect anywhere from a 0 to 15% increase in hormonal levels, both test and estrogen. >>18772197Steroid use, which leads to significantly elevated DHT levels which in turn leads to hair loss and finasteride to remedy it. This is a bad combo as it compounds the elevated hormonal levels and can push estrogen levels into feminizing territory (really you can match the symptoms of PFS to those of excess estrogen 1:1). A 10-15% increase in estrogen is perfectly safe in a healthy individual and usually at parity with an increase in test. You can't get a hormonal imbalance from DHT inhibition without being on the verge/having of one prior. Those who experience adverse effects have hormonal issues prior to finasteride usage.>Old (DHT production decreases with age)>unhealthy (overweight)>high estrogen>anabolic steroid use
what norwood is this?
>>18772238pre-norwood
Old crown photo I took to prepare for my HT back in June 8th
>>18772255My crown today 3 months 11 days post-opMaybe already seeing a difference? Lighting should be the same.
I wish fin users were slightly less assholish. Sometimes I fell guilty about taking it because everyone else who does it seems so arrogant, saying shit like "balding is voluntary" and laughing at baldies. It's like I'm a sole educated black man in a ghetto of gangbangers
>>18772384when you get fed lies and get called a tranny for saving your hair you become pretty jaded, especially when you hear the same arguments against it by tourists everyday
>>18772186NO BUT SAAAR WE COMPLAINED TO FDA 24/7 AND POSTED A BUNCH OF PTETITIONS SO THEY LENT AND GAVE US A BUNCH OF MADE UP SIDES ON THE BOX YOU AHVE TO BELIEVE ME SAAAR I NEED TO SUE MERCK TO GET 3000 RUPEES
>>18772385>>18772384I think there's extremes on both sides, which is kinda insane to me Side A:>pretends fin has literally zero side effects and if you have any you're just overreacting or are some super rare 0.01% case, so taking it is an absolute no brainer >tends to brush off side effects as minor no matter how non minor they are, I've unironically seen people saying "oh watery semen and reduced fertility? No biggie"Side B:>pretends your dick goes limp and you become suicidal the nanosecond you ingest fin >and it'll stay like that forever so you better not do it or you'll regret it for the rest of your life My 5 cents: the truth is in the middle, in a non meme centrist way. I think side effects are very real, however they are a spectrum. A solid chunk of people has barely any side effects, but then you got also more than enough people who do get them, and those side effects can range from "minor" stuff like watery semen to more extreme things like impotency and gyno and depression. It's a fucking hormonal drug at the end of the day, telling people they should just take it without second thoughts is absolutely retarded. That's what annoys me about segment A, they really badly want everyone to take it to the point where I start suspecting there's some crabs in a bucket ulterior motives there and they want others to suffer too. HOWEVER group b is retarded in the way they pretend PFS is an established fact and is practically guaranteed that it will happen to you, while realistically speaking you can just get off the drug if you experience sides and there's barely any to no evidence for long lasting side effects.
>>18772138Like the other anon said, take the meds for about one year and then assess what sort of effect they had and if you even need or want a hair transplant at that point.I never had a transplant, but I know that the better surgeons usually want for their patients to already be on fin for about 1 year, before they get the transplant.
>>18772426Obviously I'll need one though, I mean look at my hairline in picrelated. >>18770855It's not like fin will magically make hair grow out in those giant ass m gaps.
>>18770855it's already over for you.
>>18772454Why would it be? One search for "Norwood 3 hair transplant" is enough to say otherwise
>>18770753i’ve done tests. doctors have no fucking idea they’re retarded. they said it might stop when i start finasteride. what the fuck does blocking dht have to do with stimulants?you people are more useful than doctor retards. just looking for help
I was on Minoxidil for a long time but stopped for a couple years. I just got back on it (topical/foam) and it's giving me crazy folliculitis (tons of tiny whiteheads where I apply the foam, temples/cheeks). I never had this problem before when I was on Min. Anyone had any experience with this problem?
>>18772195>>18772203Can't you just get an aromatose inhibitor to combat high estrogen
Life is so cruel. As soon as I made enough to afford a hair transplant, I find out that I can't get one because my donor area is too sparse. So if this year on duta/min doesn't work, I'll be a shaved head cel for life until they cure this shit.
>>18772483>I can't get one because my donor area is too sparseHow fucking bad is your donor area for this to be the case
>>18772482Problem is that then you increase test and therefore DHT (hair loss is common side from taking them). You could also end up crashing your estrogen levels and get a whole new host of problems.
>>18772486Bad enough apparently. Diffuse thinning victim.
>>18772434I am not saying you will go back to full juvenile hairline after you start fin, but I have seen people go on fin, get some regrowth and then decide, you know what, good enough for me, wont bother doing a transplant.Hair transplant or not, it doesnt really matter. If you want to keep your hair you should take either fin or dut as soon as possible and if you do decide that you want a transplant, you should be on meds for at least 1 year first, to see what sort of response you get.
>>18772110My hairline moved up to norwood 2.5 at age 19 and I'm 29 now and it's still the same.
>>18772583The weakest follicles go first. The older you get the more sensitive to DHT the remaining follicles become. You're not in the clear yet, far from it. Guess which age is actually the most common for men to go bald (as in norwood 5). Hint: It's not your 20s, that's just the rehearsal.
>>18772391Except there’s no evidence for your view. If you look at studies it’s about 2% in non placebo and 1% in placebo for sexual related issues. So it’s about 1%. That’s nowhere near an appreciable amount of people. It’s a significant minority. Theres also a shit ton of confounding issues, older people are the ones who bald, they are more likely to just have ed issues. They are typically obese, out of shape, low muscle mass, low self esteem from balding, older people just get ed issues more etc… Also too the nocebo effect is huge and distorts things. There is no evidence for post finasteride syndrome and there’s heavy money involved in people trying to prove that it exists
>>18772672It's futile to engage with these people. They know the facts, it's not their first time spreading bullshit in these threads. You can tell as soon as they mention PFS that they're incredibly invested and it's a script, not his "5 cents".
>>18772483AGA shouldn't affect the donor area. You sure you don't have TE?
>>18772483If Dut and min doesn't do anything it's not MPB as the other anon said
Should I reset my hair after a year on finasteride? I feel like it'll grow back thicker if I just shave it all off.
>>18772672>>18772751Are these bot posts? Did you even read the post?
>>18772001>save up 3 grandyou mean for turkish surgery?
>>18772476Bump
Recently got a prescription for fin, my doctor showed me the screen with the various dosage options to treat hair loss and it included the usual 1mg/1.25mg daily, but also 5mg weekly, which I opted for because it's simpler that way. Was this a mistake? Should I just take it as 1.25mg daily?Basically wondering if there are gonna be gaps in the coverage, reducing the effectiveness.
>>18772945Do 1.25mg don't take 5mg its simultaneously way too high a dose as well as too infrequently taken to help
>>18772938Just take it orally. Even a 1mg dose is effective
>>18772945According to my surface level research 0.25mg fin should be sufficient to achieve comparable results. After that the amount to gain ratio starts increasing drastically. 0.5mg for +10% improvement1mg for further +5%2mg for further +2%And you shouldn't take 5 because the increase is negligible and it only exists to treat the bladder issues where the dosage is actually needed.Honestly it's retarded how many people take incredibly high fin amounts
what is a good starting dose for oral minoxidil? the options are 2.5mg and 5mg.
>>18773038lowest you can go.
>>187730382.5 is low enough but you can always split it in half. 5 is still considered low in the grand scheme and poses no real risks, still better to work up to it to reduce the likelihood of annoying sides.
>>18773054Are sides worse than on topical?I feel so miserable on topical fin, tried switching between foams and liquid and it all sucks. My hair is ruined either way, I get skin irritations especially from foam, and doing it twice a day is extra annoying. Doesn't even seem to help but maybe it's because I don't take any fin yet. I did get more belly hair, nose hair and I think penis hair lmfao. Some heart palpitations but these stopped a long time ago.What would taking oral min change, if anything? It's annoying I need a prescription for it and online prescriptions aren't even possible
>>18773060Min not fin obviously *
>>18772782whats TE?
>>187730602.5mg is roughly equivalent to applying topical twice daily in terms of systemic absorption, so sides are unlikely to be any different at least within that range of dose. If you feel comfortable after 2.5mg you can up it to 5mg which is 4x as effective as topical at minimum and so on. I wouldn't exceed 7.5-10mg as you run into diminishing returns with unwanted hair growth.Oral min works better for the majority of people who take it as you don't have to account for spillage onto the hairs themselves, properly applying it, scalp coverage and poor enzyme activity on the scalp. It's the mainline equivalent, no bullshit involved.>What would taking oral min change, if anything? It's annoying I need a prescription for it and online prescriptions aren't even possibleIt could change a lot, it was like a completely different drug for me compared to topical. More gains in 6 months than 5 YEARS of topical. You can take topical orally as long as it is the liquid and not the foam.
>>18773060the sides can be jarring on oral min bc you might get heart palpitations. i got them for maybe the first 2 or 3 weeks of taking it and then it stopped. you can usually mitigate the sides by splitting the dose or only taking half as your only dose.
>>18773062Telogen effluvium, basically hair loss caused by anything other than DHT. Most commonly thyroid issues or certain vitamin deficiencies. Only a doctor can properly diagnose it the scope is just too wide for an internet forum.
>>18773064Are heart palpitations the only relevant sides on oral? Maybe i should take it, I love sides that make me feel like I'm about to die. Gives me a little kickMuch better than disgusting scalp and hair
>>18773073that's the main side effect i hear about. you may get headaches or obviously unwanted body hair.
How rare is a fully juvenile/female hairline in an adult Caucasian male? I want to say it's 1 in 100 people but it feels even less common than that.
>>18773162Its not that rare if you include italians and other meds. Way rarer than 1/100 for nw euros though.
>>18773066I don't think I have that because from what I read that's a temporary thing. I think it's incorrect that alopecia can't affect the donor area.
Am I screwed?
>>18773281>I think it's incorrect that alopecia can't affect the donor area.Well yeah but it depends what is causing the alopecia. Androgenic alopecia aka hormonal aka male pattern baldness (keyword: pattern) very rarely causes hair loss outside of the typical pattern (fully bald on top, hair on sides and back of head left). Based on your donor area being affected it's 99:1 times more likely that you're not suffering from typical androgenic alopecia. It's VERY rare, much more so than other causes to experience alopecia totalis.>I don't think I have that because from what I read that's a temporary thing.It's temporary as in you can reverse it by treating the issue, if you have one. (see a doctor)
>>18773283Brother, you are at a NW5 with an island of hair. I'm sorry but it's over. Most likely you won't get amazing regrowth on drugs (doesn't hurt to try, if you're interested) and instead need somewhere in the range of 6-8k grafts to get a decent hairline. And drugs for life to maintain the hair behind the grafts.
If you are experiencing hair loss and are in the early stages, you can predict where it will stop—provided it is not DUPA. The temples recede up to the point where the frontal bone meets the top of the skull; the sooner the curve of your forehead ends, the luckier you are.
>>18773281Look up chronic telogen effluvium. I have it from untreated hypothyroidism. It's affected my donor areas as well as my body hair.
>>18773285>>18773353Well I guess it's worth seeing a doctor about. Would obviously be amazing if it's something treatable that leads to regrowth.
What is this threads opinion on PFS sufferers? There is quite a few of them Do you guys think there's some truth to it, or are they complete schizos? I guess it mainly boils down to whether you think finasteride can cause debilitating side effects and whether they can be long term
>>18773627Have you seen the size of my skull after taking fin? I'll be the first to admit the only reason my hair came back is because my head shrunk a full two sizes and consolidated all of the hair from the sides onto the top
>>18773627There's a practically unlimited jackpot of money in lawsuits and maybe even a nobel prize waiting for you if you or anyone can prove a causal link between 5ARIs and the supposed epigenetic destruction reported by insane PFS spergs
>>18773638I mean sure, some people just want a juicy payoff, but it only explains a subset of people, there's guys who want it banned, there's guys trying everything on earth to get their dick working again and spend thousands, there's guys who unironically commit suicide etc I mean obviously it can be explained away by saying they're all schizos, but it's weird why it's so prevalent under (ex) fin takers
would hair loss due to vasoconstriction be enough to make it permanent? or will it always grow back?
>>187732834000 grafts hair transplant for decent results5000 grafts for fantastic resultsbook now, take fin and shut the fuck up
>>18773752Reversible. It takes a literal scar tissue to stop hair from growing.
>>18770855>>18772391I am afraid of fin because 5a-R is responsible for production of many other compounds in the body besides DHT, and many of them directly influence the brain and are associated with mood stabilization. How could that NOT have side effects? What if you guys just don't notice the mood changes? What if this causes long term brain damage over time? That's a bit extreme, but I am worried about just being a little muted by the stuff, even if its just a little bit.
>>18773838Then go bald nobody cares about your feelings lol
25 year old male here. I have quite long hair but recently i’m losing 2-3cm hair strands. What is this a sign of? Weird
Why do hair transplant clinics create an NW2 hairline instead of an NW1 hairline with aesthetic temporal peaks? And no, it has nothing to do with looking natural; everyone who gets a transplant ends up with the same stupid NW2 hairline, and because of that, it becomes even more obvious that they’ve had the procedure done.I have an NW1 hairline, and my cousin had an NW2.5 hairline. He got a hair transplant and now has an NW2 hairline. Compared to me, he still appears to be in the balding stage.
>>18774007>And no, it has nothing to do with looking natural;It has everything to do with looking natural retard. Most people who get hair transplants are a Norwood 3 or Norwood 4, you can't go to a Norwood one with the amount of donor hair and natural density. Either you make it super sparse which looks like balding, or you make it Norwood 2Hair transplants look artificial not because they're Norwood 2, but because you had a bad surgeon who doesn't know how to place grafts in a natural looking manner.
>>18774017norwood 2 is still bald though loleither you have NW1 like me or kys please
>>18774025weak bait, now GTFO
>weak bait, now GTFO
>>18774042That's not Norwood 2, that's Norwood 4 vertex with diffuse thinning that'll end up Norwood 7 in a year or so.
>>18770855been on fin/min for 4 years. no real sides. only ED issues I ever had is from a chronically tight pelvic floor which means I stop working out legs for a week and then I get bricked again.if I hadn't hopped on it I'd be bald by now based on genetics from both sides of the senpai
>>18774047>no real sidesWhat the fuck does that mean The term "real" implies you DO have sides, so what are they?
>>18774048it means I haven't noticed if I have had any at all.
>>18774007they don't know how. the techs won't bother wit hseperating ones and shit they'll just plop those threes and get it over with.
M30, on fin since 21, have been taking dut for the last 3 months. What should I do next? I can’t handle topical min due to how greasy it is. Do I add oral min or should I get a transplant? The crown is reasonably thick.
>>18774069Oral>https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/udjq9q/15_week_update_of_oral_consumption_of_topical/
I'm 3.5 months post-op from my HT and I feel like there's still 0 differenceThis is getting fucking annoying Maybe it didn't work even though my recovery was flawless
>>18774087If it looked good 2 weeks post op you'll be fine 3 months is exactly when your hair is horrible and falling out and 6 months you see the new full hair
>>18773932Pay attention to your hairline and crown area. Monitor it closely.
If baldness affected women the way it affects men there would have been a cure for this decades ago
>>18774151I don't want to imagine the fucked up world where women can go NW3+ in high school lol.
>>18774145Shit now that you say that. Is that what these small hairs are?
>>18773867If that's the only response you have, then that's certainly not reassuring. I am legitimately trying to figure out how much damage I will be doing to myself so I can weigh my options.
What's a good ketoconazole product to use? Should I even bother with 1% OTC formulations?I have to wonder if it would be possible to squeeze a little more effectiveness out of it by using a leave-in version. Maybe the reason why the benefit is so marginal for most people is that they wash it out after a few minutes before it had a chance to seep in.
>>18774211You've already gone down the rabbit hole and obviously have a bias. Now go bald and leave us alone.
>>18774211I would be willing to lose fingers + toes or even a sense for my juvenile head of hair. Hair loss is extremely damaging to your self-esteem and gives you BDD.And yet, the side effect profile of hair loss drugs in clinical settings is SUPREMELY reasonable. DHT is not an important hormone in adult males. You either take the jump now, or lose more hair, and be forced to join the legions of skinhead NPCs.
>>18774222im using 2% ketoconazole shampoo from a pharmacy and idk if its helping at all but im also on dut. my progress is slow
How does my hairline actually look like? It seems like it can be anywhere from Norwood 1 to3 depending on the angle of my head, how do I tell how does it actually look like to the other people?
>>18774262Norwood 2 range, temple points are still relatively defined so normies won't be able to tell you are balding. Don't let it get worse.
>>18774169women do seem to be receding more than ever. am i making this up?
the norwood reaper fears this kid
>>18774151Hair loss does affect women and unlike men, women don't have any kind of medication they can take for female AGA.
>>18774688You can bet there will be some revolutionary cosmetic procedures/concealment options though and naturally they'll trickle down to men.
>>18774692Yeah, wear a wig.
>>18774694archaic
Just found out min causes shedding. What the hell? I suspect I may be just beginning the earliest phases of norwooding, and I was all ready to pull the trigger on minox, but now I'm not sure. I don't want to destroy good hair I do have. I keep my hair pretty long, so it will take years to get those losses back.
>>18775277Why are you worried about temporary shedding, when baldness is forever?
>>18775279Yeah, I know its the right thing to do, and I'm going to do it. Was just taken aback is all.Did anyone here have enough shedding to cause noticeable loss in those first few weeks?
>>18775348The people who have noticeable shedding get even better cosmetic results because all the hairs shed come back thicker and stronger. FYI Minoxidil without Finasteride/Dutasteride is like pouring water into a bucket with holes in it. You will still lose the hair, just at a decelerated rate. Fin and forget is best.
>>18775355I figured that if I do get bad shedding, that's at least a sign that I'm responding.
>>18775355>all the hairs shed come back thicker and strongerUnless they're sensitive to dht, then you're doubly fucked because you've just accelerated your hairloss kek
>>18775348You have to deal with it, there's no way around it so just get it over with or go bald forever. Add fin too or you're wasting time and money.
>>18775348you sound absolutely fucking retarded and you are not going to make it. you will bitch out after like 6 weeks and go bald lol
>>18773283Damn anon. You're a good looking dude and still young. Insane this happened to you.
>>18770192look OP. you’re the reason why i decided to start finasteride after being scared for years (so grateful), and you’re very active in these threads. i’m the vyvanse hair loss guy. please just help, im just a guy scared over his hair like you.i’m booking a blood test, what exactly should i be testing? thank you
>>18775531Explain to the doctor your concern with hair loss and they should be able to interpret it for you. Besides that: Iron, vitamin d, b12, thyroid panels. Hormone panels would be kind of redundant if you're on fin and aren't seeking a MPB diagnosis.
>>18773283I like that you're bringing this look back. It was kino in the 90s but stands out now and will elicit a lot of laughs but stay strong.
>>18775355sounds like an old wives tale
6 months on 0.5mg fin/day, no results. I'm a NW2.5 diffuse thinner. I guess I better start minoxidil, though I wanted to see at least minor results from fin at this stage.
>>18775666Hate to say this mate - but if your hair looks the same, those are results, since balding makes your hair *worse* with time. Topical min might be annoying to use for a diffuse thinner since you need to cover your whole scalp instead of just the crown/hairline, so maybe consider oral. Or try a stronger 5AR inhibitor like Dutasteride first.
>>18775666>>187756676 months isn't definitive at all. Give it at least 12 months and you should have been using minox the whole time, why wouldn't you
>>18775666Up the dose to 1mg, 0.5mg is not optimal since you're not just trying to maintain.>0.5mg scalp dht reduction 40-50%, serum 60%>1mg scalp dht reduction 60%, serum is 65-70%.It's also on the early side to expect results.
>>18775537I already know I had mpb. fin was working excellently for me, ill try get everything tested
>>18775670>10% more makes all the change bro, double the dose!!!!Lmfao >>18773016
>>18775708It could also just be a shed phase with bad timing if your results come back all clear. Multiple are not uncommon in the first year+ and fin can intensify normal seasonal sheds. Hair loss anxiety is crazy once you commit to saving it, you can really freak yourself out over completely normal sheds.
>>18775721Internet infographics are dangerous because they're theoretical. Clinical trials however provide us with real world data which translates directly to results. Here is a clinical trial observing regrowth.>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495375/ >Lmfaobecause you're stupid?
>>18775666probably should wait until 12 months, but you can switch to dutasteride at that time if you dont want to try minoxidil yet
>you can straight up recover to prepube hair line if you start fin early enoughif you're not taking fin at 18 as a white guy what are you even doing. standards for looks are through the roof. you need to hop on NOW.
>>18775832>start fin while you're still in pubertyHow evil are the retards ITT?
The fact of the matter is that if you didn't get a preventative hair transplant when you were ten it's basically over for you
>>18775837Uh yes? you're an adult. there's no serious puberty anyway. worst case you'll lose a bit of beard and body hair big deal.
>>18775889Weak bait but for anyone taking this seriously: don't take fin during your teens. DHT is responsible for your body and penis growth so unless you wanna poker on that falling short, don't be retarded
I'm 29 and norwood 2. I looked at a photo of my hairline that I took at 18 and I was norwood 2 back then and my hairline hasn't changed at all. My family history: My dad is a norwood 3 or 3.5 and his three brothers are norwood 2s. My paternal grandfather was a norwood 2 or 2.5 with a bald spot on his headMy maternal grandfather was norwood 5 or 6 and my maternal uncle got aggressive MPB in his early 20s and hit norwood 4 at 31. My other maternal uncle is norwood 3 at 40. My maternal grandfather's two brothers have full heads of hair. My maternal grandmother's father died with a norwood 1 in his 70s and my maternal grandmother's nephew is a norwood 1 at 40I've been thinking about having a trichoscopy done or possibly going on finasteride preemptively to play it safe. Should I do it or wait and see?
>>18776022>Should I do it or wait and see?Why would you wait until you're bald with that family history? Get on fin.
>>18776030My maternal grandmother's father wasn't bald nor are men on my maternal grandmother's family and my dad's brothers aren't bald nor are my maternal grandfather's brothers bald so there are non bald genes in the family as well
>>18776033Yeah, and you're a NW2, you are in the first phase of MPB.
>>18776035Why has my norwood 2 not moved in 11 years? My hair is very thick too. I read online that it is a mature hairline
>>18776039Not to scare you anon but I was like you for a long time too. Noticed Norwood 2 at 17, then basically nothing for 9 years, then quick recession to Norwood 3 and thinning at the front. See >>18770855Also the strongest phases of balding are apparently in your late 20s/early 30s and then again in your 40s
>>18776039>Why has my norwood 2 not moved in 11 years? Because you're in the denial phase and I would suppose you don't have accurate comparison pictures with your hairline pulled back and of the crown at 18 (with flash) versus now. >I read online that it is a mature hairlineNo such thing. Celebrities with "mature hairlines" are either on fin or they get hair transplants/wigs and lie about it. Ex: Matthew McConaughey. Genetic hair loss is progressive. Doesn't matter if it seems slow at first. You have more hair to lose at the start. As soon as you have that M shaped hairline from temporal recession, you are marked for life.
>>18776022Preemptively always. There is not one person on fin who wouldn't have started sooner if they could go back in time. If for whatever reason you want to be locked into a NW3+ then wait.
>>18776053The very best to do it
>>18775722yeah i’ve had an insane amount of anxiety with it - but i know it’s the vyvanse, it only sheds when im on it. and my scalp is ridiculously itchy (feels like the dht itch it sometimes even wakes me up).so i saw the doctor, and he had no fucking idea. i asked if i could get a blood test with the panels you gave me. his only advice was “you can maybe use minoxidil shampoo…”first world country quality healthcare btw. i’m going to just have to stop vyvanse, what a shame.
>>18776194*If* it's telogen effluvium brought on by vasoconstriction, it's theoretical territory and as such minoxidil *could* help in theory. Not worth playing guessing games with your hair in my opinion. It's unlikely the FDA will ever add hair loss to the vyvanse side effect profile so you'll never be taken seriously after the doctor does a quick google search.
>>18776063>There is not one person on fin who wouldn't have started sooner if they could go back in timeThere's a lot of people who would've never started it if the could go back in time tho
>>18776311The smartest man in the whole thread. Heavily involved in fact based research of the most top-secret medical documents, so illusive in fact that they can only be found in obscure threads on reddit; the posters being medical professionals involved in a whistle-blowing campaign against finasteride, utilizing reddit aliases to avoid persecution and litigation. He's outsmarted the finasteride shills at every turn, progressing all the way to a norwood 5 without ever ingesting a single molecule of neurotoxic finasteride.
I still remember the days when /fal would troll people to take fin ti castrate themselves. Now people just accept that their dick won't work. Crazy stuff.
>>18776325Ah yes, you were only a wee norwood 2 back then. They almost had you too, hand quivering as you raised that fateful finasteride pill to your lips.. "Well, it's now or never.." you thought.. suddenly an inextricable urge to throw the entire bottle came over you, the combined power of your ancestors screaming in tandem through your collective unconscious, finally breaking through to you. Without hesitation you hurl the bottle of pills with such primal strength that it phases straight through the wall, charring a perfect bottle shaped outline and a thin whisp of smoke. "Heh, muh dick"" you mutter as you turn 360 degrees and walk away.
>>18776324>>18776331Why do you want people to take fin so badly? Serious question, I've never seen such religious adherence to a drug. Even pro vaccine people were not that adamant and they at least had a valid justification since infections spread. What do you gain by so feverishly pushing fin?Why not stay objective and say "yes it might improve your hair, no guarantees tho, and you might experience mild to strong side effects so take at your own risk"
>>18776341>Why do you want people to take fin so badly?Because hair loss is the leading cause of depression in men. Its debilitating and life ruining, the butt of nearly every poignant joke in modernity. If you think I'm being hyperbolic then please enlighten me to a more pervasive condition which affects upwards of 80% of men. Is the concept of good will completely alien to you?>Why not stay objectiveIf my source material consists of published scientific studies, clinical trials, and reviews that document medical research, diagnoses, and treatments, while yours is "alternative" medicine at best, then are you not being subjective by definition?
>>18776345you're not going to make it to 30 with this mindset bro
>>18776346What a way to say "just shave it bro".
>>18776345>Because hair loss is the leading cause of depression in menSource? I'm not saying it's an underreported issue and society at large doesn't take balding seriously, but let's not pretend it's as big of a factor as loneliness, financial issues or other generic stuff.>my source material consists of published scientific studies, clinical trials, and reviews that document medical research, diagnoses, and treatments, while yours is "alternative" medicine at best, then are you not being subjective by definition?Huh? The side effects are pointed to by the very same studies. Anon, the fda and eu don't put massive disclaimers on these drugs based on feefees. It's not a miracle drug with zero side effects, it's a hormonal drug and those notoriously always have some gotcha. You can get pretty bad side effects from completely benign shit like steroid creams you put on an eczema. Pretending like fin somehow is magically the ONLY exception to this is just you being unscientific on your part.
>>18776350A 1% incidence rate (which resolves upon discontinuing use) is not equivalent to the efficacy of the drug. You are arguing in bad faith and you know it, trying to make me concede to false equivalencies. >Anon, the fda and eu don't put massive disclaimers on these drugs based on feefees.Yes they do, also to counter frivolous lawsuits from people like you.
>>18776352I'm also going to take my own advice and stop replying before this devolves into name calling. I made my point and there is nothing more to add.
>>18776352>1% incidence rateWhy are you lying?
>>18776357pretty sure he means a 1% incidence of erectile dysfunction, you know, the side effect most people actually care about.
>>18776369I think there's a lot of gray area which is why the range is so wide and some studies state up to 10%. On top of that, a lot of people probably don't even notice side effects. Not everyone would notice their morning wood is more rare, or that their sperm quality has significantly decreased for example.
>>18776348I don't like the aggressive just shave it bro crowd and get genuinely mad when seeing that one bald lupin 3 edit, Norwood can look genuinely cool but Hollywood and Netflix made everyone think balding men are pedos and rapists and now you can only be either prettyboy with zero hair loss or a shaved musclehead
>>18776250yeah i knew how clueless he was after he did his initial typing (google search). basically had no answers. when they figure out what causes ADHD meds to shed hair ill either be too old to care or dead by then. what a damn shame, very depressing
>>18776341See>>18776325
>>18776352>(which resolves upon discontinuing use)Lol, lmao even
>>18776472>>18776474Imagine if we had to attach our norwood level to the end of our posts - norwood 5
I think my hairline is pretty good at this point but the definite corner thinning prompted me to start micro dosing fin when I turned 27.I was taking .25 mg m/w/f.After over a year, my hairline didn’t look any different at all (possibly a good thing but I kind of hoped any thin areas might see at least a little resurgence)Recently upped the dose to .5 mg m/w/f which is in line with the minimum dose that has been proven effective.We will see what happens.
>>18776487If you must know. 1
>>18776513Even if that is true it just confirms your bias equally as someone who has gone beyond the point of saving it. I find it hard to believe a NW1 would go down the PFS rabbit hole, so you're probably just lying.
If I get regular blood work done will the doctor be able to tell my dht is lower?Like, I keep it a secret I take fin so would I have to spill the beans to the doc?
>>18776526No
>>18776022Genetics are weird.My maternal grandmother has a brother with a thick Norwood 1.5 at 73 and another brother who was completely bald by middle age. On my dads side, literally every male has S-tier Norwood 1, maybe 1.5 (father, brothers, uncles, and the men on his mothers side too) permanently until their death in their 80s EXCEPT my paternal grandfather who for whatever reason had a great hairline until he got old where it became like a Norwood 2.5 by the time he died at 82. Despite this, I still can still only associate him with having great hair.
>>18776526I mean yeah they would since serum DHT isn’t like 10-15% lower (within the normal human range) but more like 50-70% lower which doesn’t happen naturally. But it depends on what they make of the lower DHT
>>18776534Routine labs do not include DHT or hormonal levels.. these are specialized tests
Why are normies this retarded? I ask for examples, the retard lists two guys with a thick stubble and a guy who still had hair in his prime.
>>18770192Balding since I was 20. 28 now. I'm NW3 vertex with a lot of diffuse thinning. I've been on oral dut/min since June and haven't noticed any changes so far. This is definitely feeling like my last ditch effort to save it. I'll stick it out like this for a few years to make sure it's stable then go for the hair transplant. One thing that doesn't help is I'm strawberry blonde and most surgeons and treatment success stories seem to focus on brunettes. Ah well, I don't need the hairline back, I just want some thickness again. And if none of this works at least I look alright bald too
>>18776613>since June Most people here would say it's too early to tell and fin only shows results like 1 year in. How are your side effects so far?
>>18776635Yeah figures. I was on Fin years ago for three months and found myself very depressed, curling up in bed in the fetal position after work every day type depressed. But on Dut, I have yet to notice anything like that. No sexual side effects either, really the first two months I was on it I was hornier than normal.
>>18776636>>18776635samefag push your agenda someplace else
if you have baldness gene you should take finasteride even if you're bald and don't care about hair because it decreases cardiovascular disease risk (which is higher in balding men and even a fit bald guy has higher chance of cardiovascular disease than a hairy fatso)
>>18776518I haven't gone down any rabbit holes. I just remember the threads of anons posting in here crying about how we convinced them to take finastride and then even after stopping it their dick didn't work. We've come a long way from making people make mustard gas on /b/. t. I've been here for over 20 years
>>18776755It was real in my mind
I'm not American and on our forums there are lots of people who finasteride didn't work for or who got pretty bad side effects (way higher occurrence than 5%), BUT there were exactly 0 (zero) people who had persisting side effects after discontinuation. So called "post finasteride syndrome" is a problem exclusive to American hypochondriacs but the "finasteride has no sides and basically always stops balding" crowd is also mostly an American phenomenonIn short, if you want decent discussion about 5ar inhibitors, fuck off from English speaking internet because it's just shill wars
>>18776771>way higher occurrence than 5%So there's hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even a million on your forums?
i've been taking 1mgfin 3mg minoxidil every day for 1 month and then every other day for 2 months (forgot to get refill after going to travel for 2 months). there's clear progress from my nw2.5 down closer to 2. wish i've done it sooner. min gave me anxiety for the first two weeks, then stopped. no sides from fin, apart from maybe slightly more watery cum but that also happens with age. and can confirm - once you start seeing results and get no sides, you stop giving a shit about all the posts on 4chan and reddit about it. haven't taken any before/after photos because i'm not autistic. if you're reading this and are on the fence - go for it. at least so you can say you tried. i was a coping baldcel on here before thinking it's tranny pills that will make me gay.
>>18776787oh so the clinical trials had millions of people?
>>18776914That isn't how statistics work though..
>>18776858i was like this too, now those posts just make me angry. retards too scared to take fin when you literally don’t get any side effects. whereas my problem is hair loss due to adhd medication which hasn’t been researched and therefore has no cure. the anti fin crowd are even larger on /fit/
>>18776858>no sides from fin, apart fromEvery single time kek>more watery cum but that also happens with ageIt doesn't unless you're 60 lmao. Also congrats, you just nuked your fertility because that's exactly watery cum is an indicator of >I haven't taken before/after photos>I went from 2.5 to 2There's no way for you to know the difference without photos, that change is not big enough
>>18776986Even if sides were guaranteed it would still be worth it to avoid walking around in public scarred and disfigured from a genetic disease. Putting on a hat or otherwise disguising it is just a more advanced version of a leper in some black hooded cloak. People just don't want to be around you dude, not here not in the real world.
Anyone take any supplements on top of fin to maybe squeeze out some perhaps better results?I think saw palmetto and pumpkin seed oil are good but also redundant since the fin takes care of the 5ar aspect.I think targeting the inflammatory pathways would be the next best thing.I’ve been taking some astaxanthin which may indirectly help, but am also thinking about starting tocotrienols to further reduce scalp oxidative stress and inflammation.
>>18776998>if sides were guaranteed it would still be worth it to avoid walking around in public scarred and disfigured from a genetic diseaseThis is what mental illness looks like
>>18776986>you just nuked your fertility because that's exactly watery cum is an indicator ofit's SLIGHTLY more watery and i already have produced multiple children. >There's no way for you to know the difference without photos, that change is not big enoughso you're telling me that just by using my eyes i'm not able to determine whether my hairline recession went back a little bit? you're either retarded or arguing in bad faith. i'm not taking photos because i don't want to neurotically obsess over it - i stopped balding and only costs me like 50 eur for 3 months worth of pills>>18777043that's not me and i don't agree with that. if it made my dick stop working i would just shave my head and get it over with.
>>18777043Let me clue you into how the real world works. Ready? How you look is the single most important aspect which influences every single interaction you will have, whether that be social, professional, etc.. You don't get to be a slob, ravaged by disease and expect to enjoy the same quality of life as somebody who actively takes measures to ensure they are presenting the best version of themselves (That includes not being bald). Nobody is nuking their fertility, nobody has a non-functional dick. This is your own head canon to cope with not taking responsibility for your inaction. Your body is deteriorating due to a genetic disease and you do nothing, and you expect your opinion to have ANY weight? You're just a creepy little guy .. really you aren't wanted here.> if it made my dick stop working i would just shave my head and get it over with.cross that bridge when you get to it. You have hormonal issues further reaching than the mild increase finasteride can elevate if you're getting ED. It's simply giving you a glimpse into the future without treating the underlying cause.
I'm actually glad fin has so much fearmongering attached to it, the price would skyrocket if it became mainstream-tier trendy and became a universal no-brainer thing for men
>>18777071>the price would skyrocket if a drug became popular Is a side effect of fin reduced brain capacity?
>>18777060I remember one of the catalysts for getting me on fin was seeing some guy working at the dmv.He was bald on top but had short hair on the sides and he had freckles on his bald head.It actually grossed me out a little bit and I thought to myself “I absolutely cannot look like that no matter what”.Luckily I’m not balding (nw2).
>>18777079Bald people exist to make us feel better about ourselves. They're inspirational at best, a cautionary tale at worst.
>>18777071Were seeing this already with the branded male oriented telehealth companies offering fin at astronomical margins. Its the worst with the topical formulations as they're all proprietary.
>>18777094that overpriced $1 per fin pill scam really works when you just found out fin exists and it can stop your balding, for people in the US, shit like keeps, hims and ro should only be a stepping stone to getting an amazon prescription fulfilled through costplus.
>>18774688haha whatspironolactone, fin/dutit's all the same you faggot
>>18777138spiro is a diuretic that just happens to suppress T in high dosages, and at these dosages it makes you piss all the time, it's really shit-tier even for mtf HRT and it's usually a sign you're NGMI cus it means your doctors or your medical system don't give a fuck, there's a reason most trannies do it DIY
>>18777060the scary thing is this will probably be a mainstream opinion in 10 yearslet's hope there's better balding drug by then
>>18777192lookism was always enforced, it's just that this generation decided to say the quiet part out loud
>>18777184cis women take spiro at 100-150mg doses if they have pcos, sides are really really over sold fin/dut work for women too, they just are less prescribed because of birth risks in male fetuses it's really easy to treat female hairloss because they normally don't have much test -> DHT to begin with dutasteride + minox is almost 100% guaranteed to solve it the peeing thing just isn't true either, I've taken the medication and it wasn't a big deal monotherapy is ideal though, sure
>>18777213the standards of what's considered good looking changed a lot, a man with visible balding and combover could be considered handsome in the past
>>18777192The bald roman emperors were getting roasted. Bald has never once been a fashion trend for a reason.
>>18777231>Bald has never once been a fashion trend for a reason.it is now though??
>>18777233Shaved head =/= bald.
most photos on r/bald: smilingmost photos on r/hairtransplants: sad or neutral face
>>18777224Men can technically use it topically for blocking androgen receptors, it's just rather ineffective for what it is but combined with fin you're probably going to hit 0 DHT on the scalp. Of course at that point just take dut though lol.
>>18777237>decided to take the plunge, you guys! how does it look? looks better, r-right?
I'm at nw2 with thinning, currently on fin and min and I'm seeing hairline regrowth and added density, but my question is will fin keep the density gains if I stop spraying min all over my scalp and just do it around the hairline. Taking oral min is not an option I don't want to turn into a hairy ass Bulgarian, and applying liquid min to longer hair seems like too big of a hassle
>>18777370>I don't want to turn into a hairy ass BulgarianThis will happen sooner or later btw, nobody really tells you that min turns systemic
Kevin Mann compares himself to Geralt, but he's actually closer to Radovid>a sorceress humiliated me, so I will eliminate all sorceresses!>DHT humiliated me, so I will eliminate all DHT!
>>18770192I KNOW THERE IS A STICKY BUT IF YOU ARE BALDING AND SCARED READ THIS.TAKE 1MG FINASTERIDE AND 2.5MG MINOXIDYL DAILY (they sell them as pills, you can buy 6 months or a years supply, they are not expensive)THAT'S IT. OUTSIDE OF GETTING A HAIR TRANSPLANT EVERYTHING ELSE IS COPE OR SNAKEOIL. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT GET REGROWTH, YOU CAN KEEP WHAT YOU HAVE.DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THE (((SIDE EFFECTS))). OR YOU ARE GOING TO END UP LIKE PIC RELATED. SORRY FOR THE CAPS. I'M TRYING TO SAVE YOU.
>>18773290INTERESTING. thank you
>>18777325Depression personified
>>18777370>will fin keep the density gains if I stop spraying min all over my scalpNo. You probably have had regrowth from fin simultaneously which will make it appear as if you keep some of the min gains.>I don't want to turn into a hairy ass BulgarianIt really just thickens your existing hair at low doses (1.25-2.5mg). Beard, eyebrows, eyelashes, hairline. As the other anon pointed out, depending on how much topical you've been using you probably already have close to a low dose of oral going systemic already.
>>18777456ty for not using the gross wojak version
>>18770192Is it worth taking fin in your 40s or does it not matter at that point?
>>18777541Do you have hair to preserve? Then yes
>>18776766Lol retard
Still on the fence of taking fin so I need your advice anons.I like to make pro cons lists so here's my hopes and fears. Also some background info: I'm a virgin in my late 20s and a lot of my depression and social anxiety actually does stem from my hair Best case scenario:>no side effects, I keep my current hair or even regrowth, do a hairtransplant in one year and forget this entire bullshit topic in two years Mid case scenario: >some mild side effects, like watery semen or slightly reduced potency, I'm sure that'll make me sad because I like my cumshots. >being unsure whether the medication actually works because hairline keeps reverting and unsure about the balding pace slowing downWorst case scenario:>zero effectiveness, massive side effects like limp or crooked dick, in desperation I stop and side effects still continue. I unironically might kms in this case because I'm a virgin and ruined my sexuality before even having sex >apparently this wouldn't be the first fin suicide either Especially the worst case scenario scares me, usually these decisions are easy because the worst case scenario is negligible or extremely unrealistic, but I'm unsure. And I also don't know how to determine what to do next to either alleviate my worries, or what to do about my hair loss if the worst case is too legitimate
>>18777569I was you like 3 years ago, I bought some overpriced keeps fin prescription and sat on it for months googling every obscure hair loss forum (not reddit) looking for side effect scaremongering, finding literally nothing credible after digging a little bit, meanwhile every time I scratched my itchy hairline, new tiny near-translucent hairs were falling out, eventually I took the plunge and literally nothing happened, my dick didn't shrink, I didn't get watery cum, nothing happened. Actually, something did happen, my constant worry about my receding hairline evaporated within 2 weeks, it was a massive weight off my shoulders, yes I felt pretty stupid for worrying about sides so much, I didn't even notice a real initial dread shed till like 4 months in and it took like 8 months before I could reliably say my hair was better off than when I started.Hair regrowth is so glacially slow you will kick yourself for not starting hair loss treatments earlier, PFS is a fucking hoax.
>>18777569What the fuck ever happened to taking a lighter approach before nuking your hornones. Get some high quality biotin in a high dose like 5000 and make a rosemary oil and carrier oil mix and apply that twice a week. I started that because I was noticing general overall thinning. Now I have baby hair growing in the cornwrs of my hairline where I can remember never having hair since I was 13. Rosemary is as effective as rogaine and doesn't make your skin turn to shit.
>>18777581>Rosemary is as effective as rogaine and doesn't make your skin turn to shit.Science simply doesn't support this claim and none of the other things you mentioned stop hair loss
>>18777581nobody loses hair to malnutrition, it's physically impossible to have a nutrient deficiency if you eat any food at all
>>18777583https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25842469/
>>18777586>2% Most people take 5% because 2% does jack shit. Also, once again: neither rosemary nor min stop hairloss
>>18777588I'll take having to do this forever vs nuking my hormones
>>18777591>muh whoremoneswait till you find out how many female hormones you have inside you right nowcan we have a new thread now?this one's ruined
>>18777569Just take it and and move on with your life this kind of thinking is so incredibly unhealthy. There's millions of people taking it, every celebrity, every person who you have ever seen in front of a camera. Stop reading pity stories from severely mentally ill people on the darkest corners of the internet, that shit is actually contagious. Don't take alternative medicine, at best you will just delay the inevitable when you could have started now and made progress.
>>18777581biotin does fuck all for androgenic alopecia and minoxidil doesn't stop hairloss. by the time you get to nw3 because nothing you've mentioned actually works, you'll wish you've "nuked" your hormones earlier. >>18777569statistically, you're likely to get something between mid and best case scenario. just fucking do it and forget about it
>>18777595>Sunk cost fallacy
>>18777684The sunk cost of using the only thing on earth that saves your hair?
>>18777581post hairline
>>18777569I started off micro dosing because I thought I had some brain fog when I first started.Micro dosing is a great way to get your toes in the water and I’ll probably keep micro dosing in perpetually unless I need to up the dose at some point.
>>18777736Wtf does microdosing for fin mean? How much mg do you take?
>>18777745he's probably doing something stupid like 1 pill a month
>>18777581>>18777583>Rosemary is as effective as rogaine and doesn't make your skin turn to shitI can only find anecdotes suggesting skin issues. Whats the verdict?Anyone combine retinol with minoxidil on scalp? Tretinoin can boost effectiveness of minox purportedly, retinol is a precursor to tretinoin. Maybe either can mitigate the skin side effects?
>hop on oral fin and topical min>almost no improvement after 6 months>switch to oral min>diffuse thinning completely regrown after 4 months, norwood 3--->2, basically have the hair i had at age 16 again>eyebrows connect with sideburns and eachother nowi mean too much hair is better than too little, but this kind of sucks lol
>>18777761It's not real, part of the extended PFS lore.
>>18777541Wanting to take fin at that age means your hair is much more resistant to DHT than someone who had to take it in say their 20s so yes I'd say it's worth it if you're physically active and still want to look good.
>>18775832My biggest regret in life is putting off fin for 4 years before finally biting the bullet 3 years ago and I'd say I've had an above average recovery, but my hair is still noticeably thinner around the crown than in other areas under brutal overhead lighting. Now I'm 28 and it's definitely not as noticeable to other people than it is to me, and I still get some compliments on my hair with good styling but I know I would have much better coverage and higher confidence had I not listened to baldcel PFS spergs. Fin recovered my hairline density but my crown was so thoroughly raped by DHT over the years I think I need to start adding min to get my youthful vertex back
>>18772198>>18771695Stop fucking with me, get real, every ai rates me a 4 and says my haircut sucks. Also I'm 180 cm and I have 130+ IQ the reason I get no bitches isnt my height or me being retarded or whatever.
>>18777996the reason you get no bitches is because you're a neurotic sperg who can't hold a proper conversation with a woman and thinks the haircut is the issue.
>>18778017>neuroticYou're the second person to tell me this this week you might be onto something. But still why would every ai agree to rate me a 4 out of 10? There must be some truth to it
>>18778040the ai can't see you, dumbass
>>18778053nah you can feed it pictures
be careful when taking new supplements/medicine, even if you’re on fin. if you introduce something new to your body and it makes you shed hair - stop it immediately. 1 month of vyvanse has caused a catastrophic amount of hair loss for me (despite being on fin)
>>18778095your iq is not 130+>>18778113there is no supplement that is comparable in potency to your body to vyvanse. you shouldn't take vyvanse either
>>18778146well what should i be taking then? i feel like a normal human being who can actually talk to people, hold conversations and enjoy things when i use it
Can Finasteride be less effective the second time you use it? I feel absolutely 0 side effects this time. Before I had slightly reduced sex drive.
>>18778338No was probably in your imagination
just so you know that one fin shill who loves science isn't even balding and doesn't take fin, he also encouraged men who weren't balding to take it (probably hoping they'd get side effects)
Is minoxidil once a day (or rather night) enough if I take fin too?Twice seems like too much of a hassle
>>18778431in tablet? yes
>>18778457Unfortunately min pills are hard to come by where I live, I can get only get it in topical form. Is 5% foam enough once a day stacked with fin?
>>18778529See if you can locate the clear liquid version. If you're already willing to take min orally you should just commit and skip the topicals, its far and above more effective than topical for 99% of people.
>>18778531The clear liquid version can be taken orally the same as the pill, just not the foam.**
>>18775986saying teens is disingenuous. I'm advocating for taking it as an adult. muh penis growth is already gone and DHT isn't anything for body growth see: guevedoce
>>18778531>>18778532Nigga are you trying to get me killed?
lmao let's fucking go
>>18778998how
>>18778814No.. it's the workaround for people who live in places that won't prescribe oral min, or if you're just too lazy to pursue it.
>>18778814proof that literally nobody ITT reads the OP
>>18774046niggas on HLT would call nw2 in this pic a nw4
>>18779155because it isthat's not even remotely close to a nw2 hairline, which is just mild temporal recession, not corners entirely raped
Why does Kevin Mann hate the idea of a hair loss drug that doesn't block DHT, he talks like he doesn't even want a drug better than dutasteride to exist
>>18779258because the single thing killing your hair is DHT and if the drug doesn't block DHT then it's not getting rid of the problem?remember that he's also a vicious zealot against oral minoxidil because of a few isolated incidents of ppl getting pericardial effusion
I’m NW5 with an island and this weekend a woman unironically said her and her friend were talking about me and were wondering if I shave my head because I’m balding or if it’s “some kind of fashion statement?”
>>18779265“single thing”i am on finasteride and vyvanse is killing my hair. not dht, and i can’t find a fix
>>18779329honestly before I started balding it was the case for me too, only after hitting enough of a Norwood I started noticing hairlines on shaved guys
>>18779332are you on minoxidil?
>>18779359nope, but i’ll have to start because this vyvanse shit has caused so much harm i can’t even look at my hair
>>18779366maybe fin and minoxidil will be enough to counter the vyvanse
>>18779329brutal
>>18779399we’ll soon find out. do you think maybe the vyvanse is actually countering the finasteride and making my dht higher? i’m much more hornier on vyvanse despite still being on fin
>>18779329But they told me hair isn't important..Hahahahaha
new thread when?
>>18773754No way he could get good results with only 5k graftsYou’re likely forgetting that at his Norwood level he would have a crater of missing hair in his crown and not just his hairline
>>18779421quite the contrary, it's whitepilling since it proves non-channers don't really pay attention to shaved hairlines, as opposed to haircafe's rants about toilet seat shadows
