what is the physiological reason why hypertrophy # endurance? if the muscle isnt getting bigger with more reps then which part is being trained there?
>>77340374Endurance training does not cause enough mechanical tension to induce hypertrophy, instead, it increases mitochondria which makes your muscles more efficient at converting things like glycogen into ATP. It needs oxygen for that process, which is why your body basically builds a lot more small blood vessels that can supply the muscles with it. Then, there's also improved motor unit recruitment. Basically, you don't need bigger muscles, you and the muscles at their current size become more efficient. Larger muscles need even more blood flow and oxygen but strength training typically doesn't produce the necessary increase in the small capillaries.
>>77340374when it comes to the structure - mostly new capillaries, so cardiovascular system. You don't grow new muscle fibers, instead you get more mitochondria in existing ones. I think some fast twitching fibers also slightly change their type - adapt to gain energy from oxygen, unfortunately they will become slower as well, therefore less capable of producing muscle strength.
Redpill: endurance is less about the heart and especially lungs, and more about local adaptations in the muscles to carry more oxygen and remove more waste productsThat's why cardio is specific, where if it were systemic adaptations in the cardiovascular systems it would be generalBodybuilders training high reps for arms are really enhancing the vascular capacity of those limbs, which enables them to recover better and transport more muscle building chemicals to the muscle to grow moreSo spend a phase every so often doing high rep "endurance" sets, and then see if you get better results during your low rep power phase
>>77340374It really depends on the number of reps you're talking about. A run could technically be looked at as hundreds or thousands of "reps."Bodybuilders who train in higher rep ranges do actually tend to tolerate more reps than a specialized powerlifter or weightlifter. They even show more capillarization than strength athletes as an adaption to the chronic blood lactate levels accumulated in typical bodybuilding workouts. They also have more intermediary muscle fiber concentration, that are strong but also fatigue resistant.The dreaded "sarcoplasmic" hypertrophy induced by bodybuilding training, which is usually called empty water weight because it doesn't improve contractile force, actually serves as a reservoir for high-intensity energy. There was an event I've read about (I don't know if it actually happened) where Tom Platz (bodybuilder) and Frederick Hatfield (powerlifter) had a 1RM and an AMRAP competition. Platz won the AMRAP but lost the 1RM competition. This highlights the differences induced by training, when some people like Rippetoe act like the guy with the higher 1RM will always get more reps.Generally, the best way to train for size is to balance heavy sets along with the "pump" training. This is why we beg 140lb noobs to get their bench to 2pl8 instead of doing 3x15 with 100lbs forever on their PPL, but you can only help people so much. There are many ways to achieve this like heavy compounds + metabolic single-joint exercises, heavy/light undulating periodization, reverse pyramids, etc.
>>77340412>Generally, the best way to train for size is to balance heavy sets along with the "pump" training. This is why we beg 140lb noobs to get their bench to 2pl8 instead of doing 3x15 with 100lbs forever on their PPL, but you can only help people so much. There are many ways to achieve this like heavy compounds + metabolic single-joint exercises, heavy/light undulating periodization, reverse pyramids, etc.If higher rels increase endurance, would it not be a good idea to start off with higher reps and transition to strength training than the other way around?
>>77340386>That's why cardio is specificYeah cardio doesn't seem to translate well. I run a lot, used to be a swimmer, I tried swimming for a workout and my muscles were completely fucked with lactic acid from a very short swim. Plus I was obviously much much slower.
>>77340605There is much better cardio than a short run on flat terrain
>>77340605The cardio part probably did translate well, it just didn't feel like it because your muscles were instantly redlined and you went anaerobic. People frequently underestimate muscle requirements in aerobic activities.
>>77340374my nigga it took me forever to figure out you meant not equal with hashtagsmall muscle more efficient easier to move small muscle for a lot>>77340386i have bad cardio it translates well to everywhere. i never feel lactic acid even with bodybuilding training i just gas out or the muscles stop with no feeling
>>77340591There is this concept called the size principal that explains that motor unit activation is linear along a recruitment threshold. Cardio is exclusively in the low threshold because the individual "rep" of taking a step is practically nothing and ultra-endurance athletes actually adapt with smaller but more vascular muscles for efficiency. When someone is training more in a 15-30+ rep type of workout they are in a higher threshold of force than cardio. Everything exists on that percentage of absolute strength. By improving your maximal strength you make that percentage lower, making the exercise easier. There's other systems at play so it's not the Rippetoe hypothesis that higher 1RM always equals more reps, but it's still foundational. You can't lift 90% of your 1RM for lots of reps.The reason noobs are best served with some "low" reps (5s are not low reps, singles are) is that high reps bias sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Myofibrillar hypertrophy actually makes them stronger and is also "sticks" longer than sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is essentially the "pump." The pump goes away quickly with detraining and your "muscle memory" is all the myofibrillar shit. High reps also interfere heavily with actually reaching the closeness to failure needed for high MU recruitment because blood lactate will "burn" to an extent that you will abort the set before you get there, every time. HIIT heavily involves training to resist that lactate threshold but it still will ultimately abort a set prematurely. This is why low rests between high rep sets isn't actually a bad thing, because it's a short "reset".Bodybuilders are purely focused on momentary size (for the picture/stage) so they benefit from pump work but they also have the strength background. There is sufficient evidence that noobs should focus on either all lower rep ranges for strength development, or some lower rep ranges (definitely with compounds) and supplemental pump work. PEDs are another topic.
>>77341884Very informative post and after much discourse with /fit/ favorite chatbot i did decide to switch from hypertrophy to strength focused lifts. Seems like i will lose lifting endurance but get it back quick as well as put myself in a better position for future hypertrophy.
>>77340386YeFurthermore you can almost max out endurance in a few months if you train it right (tabatas and equivalent). Because it's mitochondria dependent first and foremost, and those grow fast, but are capped genetically moreso than myofibrils (muscle size/strength). You also lose that adaptation faster. So you grow muscle, then few months before sport event do your tabatas and maintain muscle. Then arrive to event with high endurance.
>>77341884Lol no, you get myofib hypertrophy just fine from high rep (up to 20 depending on lift, it's really measured via TUT not reps, wrist curls will take more reps than OHP) training. Sarco just accompanies it.
