>>77342081
You just chose a bad gym.

>>77342081
sometimes you just gotta roll with it

>>77342081
I wouldn't even expect that from a BJJ gym.

BJJ is the reddit of martial arts
if you wanna learn takedowns do wrestling you dumb fuck

>>77342081
You're in the wrong gym. I teach takedowns and do live wrestling in every class I teach. Some losers are just losers. Jiu jitsu has been heavily commercialised, you just have to choose a more traditional gym.

>>77342081
>how do they keep spewing endless propaganda
say it out loud
>JOO
jit
soo
what does it sound like huh
yeah.

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>>77342081
25 yr old gym only ausfag here
I wanna get into a martial art training but idk which gym to go to
Bjj, wrestling, kickboxing, boxing etc, any advice
I dont want to go hardcore, just want something I can enjoy thats also applicable to irl self defence

>>77342203
depends on the gym. I would love to box but would never want to go to a gym full of retards.

>>77342081
Try judo instead. It focuses way more on the throws and takedowns. And it's less gay.

>>77342081
He's right though, training takedowns is a waste of time.
A sloppy single-leg is enough to bring 99% of people to the ground and you don't really need to train that.

>>77342302
Steep learning curve, especially when starting as an adult. You can train for years and still won't be able to throw a resisting opponent reliably.

You know what reliably works? Shooting singles and doubles.

Judo is a beautiful sport though.

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>Join a martial art that developed by removing all the stand up grappling and throws from Judo to focus on ground game
>Hey why are we focusing on the ground that's stupid.
???

Did you not know anything about BJJ? or did you mean you wanted them to spend more time teaching you BJJ's catalogue of takedowns (double and single leg) instead of actually rolling.?

But to answer your question it's because of the grandiose self promotion of the Gracies. Most BJJ guys understand it's one effective grappling art of many and only one aspect of a well rounded fighter but there are still a few koolaid drinking Gen X boomers stuck in the 90s that genuinely think BJJ can defeat any other fighting style, that it's impossible to avoid them taking you to the ground and that Rickson Gracie really has a 400-0 fight record. They try to avoid infohazards such as Sakuraba humping Royce Gracie like a poodle for 90 minutes using catch wrestling he learned from a Norf FC British man.

>>77342081
Jew jit siu is a racket

Why is it that people become peak retard when it comes to martial arts? People acting like you're fucking picking a fighting game character (and even that's retarded since most games are relatively balanced) and that'll determine whether you hit the high ranks or not like wtf.

>>77342081
>Things that never happened

>>77342721
No, that sounds very plausible. I dunno how many gyms you've visited but after so many years of being jacked off in the media lots of them rolling fags really do believe that BJJ is the end all be all style. Which is silly cause most successful grapplers in MMA come from wrestling backgrounds.
>>77342081
I hate that " % of fights end on the ground" bullshit, because yeah, that's true, even in MMA but just like in real life, even in MMA after it goes to ground the majority of wins aren't by submission, it's by TKO from ground'n' pound.

>>77342712
martial arts is literally rock paper scissors you dumb cunt

muay thai > kickboxing > boxing > judo > wrestling > bjj > muay thai

i may have 1 or 2 of them switched wrong but thats the basic gist

>>77342769
>martial arts is literally rock paper scissors you dumb cunt
oh my fucking god you actually ARE fucking retarded.

>>77342774
this kinda hurt my feelings ngl

>>77342769
... You do realize that judo contains the entirety of BJJ. Have you ever seen a judoka take on a roller? No it is not rock paper scissors. Muay Thai/kickboxing/karate(so long as it's competitive) + Judo or American freestyle, that's it, you're done. There is no rock paper scissors, just how complete is your skill set. And to be clear, hyper focusing on complex submissions is fucking retarded. A judoka or wrestler will get the same thing done with a third of the effort

>>77342081
>join a gym for "jew"- jitsu
>it's a cult

A guy in my judo class was an icu nurse and when i was in the icu he scratched my shoulder with a syringe

>>77342315
Not really. I started in my early 30s to help me out as a deputy and it took me about 2-4 months to reliably able to toss people around even wearing all my gear. I came in with a significant strength base though, so your mileage may vary.

>>77342315
>Steep learning curve
>Judo
If you're retarded just say so. I'm tried of this being said by literally any martial arts. Like how bad at moving your body are you? Unless it's some acrobatic chink fu bullshit you can learn the most of any style in a year tops. Even BJJ which is le ebin cerebral style is literally just grab something and twist it, grab it this way, grab it that way, doesn't matter, just get tangled and twist, that's all it fucking is. The majority of judo techniques have so much overlap, they're all just teeny tiny variations. Once you stop trying to memorize techniques and just have a mind for anatomy and physics, you stop thinking in terms of techniques at all. They're all just names for shit guys did while scrambling and figuring shit out

>>77342081
Jiu jitsu has always been for fat homos. Go to a dedicated mma or wrestling gym for grappling.

I found it weird how they always started the fights sitting down and no punching is allowed

Why does it feel like whenever someone talks about MA online, it's just huge larping and retardation all over? Muh self defense, muh martial arts meta tier list, muh gun jutsu
like jesus fucking christ, it actually isn't that deep. People act like they're on the streets being Bruce Lee or some shit. beginners get huge main character syndrome with MA, I don't get it.

>>77343167
Because that’s obviously why people are interested in it. It’s just a sport but they have a sense it turns them into like a killing machine. It’s the new weightlifting in that way. Back in the day, everyone thought getting big and strong would make it easier to defend yourself and hurt people and it was bullshit, just like it’s bullshit for MMA.

>>77342712
Because it appeals to morons and white trash and that’s how dojos and Joe Rogan sell it to people obviously. Joe Rogan tells people every week that the deadliest men on the planet are UFC fighters and most people are too stupid or inexperienced to understand why that’s bullshit.

>>77342081
Legitimately had this issue with JJ and BJJ.
>big hip boy
>king of manlets, but nearly 220lbs
>can just flip people over and control the mid game before we hit the ground so I can strategically start the engagement in a better starting position

>NO
>YOU MUST GIMP YOUR NATURAL TALENTS AND BE RETARDED ON PURPOSE
As someone who loves grappling I cannot fathom how every modern fighting style is so fucking rigid and gooberish.

>>77343228
they're probably just trying to drill technique with you, just dont be a dick and roll with it. but it really does boil down to size and strength in the end.

>>77342081
Lol did you get bullied, anon? Mad because your "seeing red" and "I just start swinging" like doesn't work against people that actually know how to fight?

>>77343214
>>77343217
shit so fucking cringe, more people should be called out for acting retarded.

>>77342203
Entirely gym dependent. I know a boxing gym that has classes rwnging from foundations where beer bellied dads go to tap each other in the head and take some aggression out. It also has classes for pro's.
Same with bjj. Gmy in town is very cool and has everything from soccer moms and dads looking to do something fun to people competing for state tournaments.
Also know some gyms where they'll deliberately hurt you to see if you have the tenacity to keep coming back.

>>77343228
You sound like the worst kind of person to do a martial art.

>>77342081
JiuJitsufags are the CrossFiters of the martial art world, not only is it a cult but they are required by fucking law to try to meme you into joining. They never shut up about it.
Most BJJ gyms just care about the sport of it and not actual combat applications. If you wanna learn it for practical (self defense) uses, you are better off joining a MMA gym, they teach JiuJitsu alongside a ton of other shit + conditioning.

That being said, if you want a community of buddies and to do a sport, I think its fine to do JiuJitsu. Same as any other sport. I like Judo myself for the same reason.
Just don't gaslight yourself into thinking you are unbeatable after learning a single part of combat, even if you master it. Someone with a couple of months on boxing can just punch your chin and knock you out regardless of how many submissions you know.

And if you are American, just use the martial art of gun.

I wrestled into college and then did competitive boxing (albeit club) in college while I worked as a bouncer at bars. I also did BJJ here and there for fun with my coworkers and friends. I constantly get into arguments with BJJ cultists about how useful BJJ is on the street. I’ve seen hundreds of street fights including ones with BJJ v boxing or BJJ vs other athletes whatever. BJJ is not quite useless but close to useless and I always tell them that but they’re literally dogmatized cultists so they just don’t get it. They do BJJ because they think it makes them into a human weapon. Ironically, they will never even have that belief tested against anyone other than a fat drunk because that’s how they are. A lot of jiu jitsu cultists are just nerds and little men with complexes who do it to feel way tougher than they ever become or to bully basically helpless people. I’ve started to hate BJJ gyms and people for this reason.

I saw a video of Arman Tsarukyan messing around with Adrien Broner doing a fake takedown while the guy is just mucking around and telling him his boxing couldn’t stop him, and it perfectly epitomized BJJ fag hubris. First of all AB is fat and old now and he is just fucking around. In reality, the probability is much more likely that Arman would be on the ground with a broken jaw, nose, orbital, or concussion before he ever got a takedown. This is the brutal reality of street fighting. Even if you’re not being stabbed, having a bottle smashed over your head, ganged up on, sucker punched, somebody is probably getting slumped within 30 seconds. That’s how 90% of 1 v 1 fights go. But these fags think because they can score a takedown against a boxer in a cage they can kill them on the street and it’s based on delusional fantasies about how tough and capable they are. All else equal, a good boxer murders a martial artist in the street and that’s just the reality but they can’t cope with that.

>>77343275
you're cringy as hell too

>>77343275
It’s a fun sport and it’s a good way to make friends and stay in shape. I think the BJJ cult is mostly fine. What really irks me about these guys is that they are totally convinced a guy who trains jiu jitsu as a fucking hobby 3x per week for 10 years is literally the deadliest man in the room every room he walks into and they happily insist this with you. It’s peak delusion. One of these days some pro UFC fighter is going to pick a fight with the wrong one on stream and he’s going to end up on the ground with the lights off and his teeth in the back of his throat while his girlfriend screams off camera and the whole world is going to see that BJJ is not as bad as these people think it is.

>>77343232
It's never like that anon, never.
You act like i'm not nearly 40 years old. I've been doing drills my entire life I know the game.

They purposefully gimp you.
Every MMA gym will single out one or two guys that are basically the gym owners best friend and just focus on solely training them to be better, this happens at every gym, and this happens with every single person I have discussed that has gone to a gym.
It's basically a way to stay purist because they don't want to admit that their styles are outdated and shit, they have to keep the mysticism so they purposefully will not let you get better than the group in a timely manner else you'd simply just stop going to the gym.

It's literal goober behavior.
Direct example at a Muay Thai mixed gym I went to for a few years there was a guy who was exceptionally good at the neck tuck into knee combo. He was the perfect weight to fly his knee into someone's face.
Simply didn't work on me, I had an instinctive reaction every time he tried doing it to move into the motion, closing the range before he could lift the knee up and stepping past him, pick him up at the waist and slam him into the ground in a Judo like throw.
It was a legitimate weakness of his fighting style and it was good for him to know that weakness.
If he wanted to get better, he would keep training with me and brute force a win through sheer hours put in.

Instructor didn't like it, kept gimping me instead to bring me down to a level where his friend always won.
In real life fighting whatever gets you the win gets you the win, anything else is cope.
Also a good amount of rock paper scissors, I absolutely suck at fighting boxers. Especially low-heavy weight boxers. I lack the footwork entirely for an actual trained boxer.

>>77343257
Not here to hold your hand and make you feel good about yourself silly fuck.

>>77343277
unfortunately theres no alternative to learning wrestling in your mid 20's if you didn't do it in college or highschool. BJJ is easiest entryway to learning grappling.

>>77343283
why do you guys have this whole MA vs MA mentality? that's what im fucking saying. shit legit doesn't matter what martial arts you train, fighting is unpredictable. You could be winning and just land the wrong way and seeing heaven because you hit your head on a pole.

>>77342879
I'm NTA but I agree with you.
For some reason, when people discuss martial arts online, they all think of going to the olympics to compete or some shit.

Unless you are in a wheelchair, you can learn anything, Judo, BJJ, Boxing, Wrestling, whatever at any age and you will be better than 90% of people at physical combat. You are not doing a tryout for Street Fighter 7, chill out, you don't need maximum genes and perfect training.

Yeah, a kid that started at 10 years old will run circles around you if you start at 40, but that doesn't mean you won't be able to learn or its "too difficult". Just keep practicing and don't give up at the slightest bump.

I hate this fucking defeatist attitude that if you can't be the top 0.0001% of something it doesnt even matter and its not worth pursuing, we have threads about this about "muh genes, why even try" everyday. Fucking loser mentality.

>>77343283
>deadliest man in the room every room he walks into
That's only true 99.9% of the time because nearly everyone 1) has no skills and 2) is physically weak as shit

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY CANT I JUST BEAT THE SHIT OUTTA MY CLUB MEMBERS WHEN I ROLL. WHY DO I HAVE TO LEARN TECHNIQUE????????????
u

>>77343296
>the top 0.0001% of something
one year of competent training at any hobby would basically put you in the top 0.01% of the world if memory serves.

It simply comes down to how much time you're willing to sacrifice daily. human body is absurdly adaptive.

Unironic, but I'm going into my first tournament tomorrow with only 1 month of training. I expect to get rolled and decimated out my ass but any tips/advice? I think I do pretty okay in Gi (No-Gi, I can't get a good hold of anything to defend so I'm constantly subb'd like 1 minute in while with Gi I can usually make it past the timer without a sub even though I'm in the losing position).
Foods to eat before then? Activities or shit to avoid or do before the day? To jerk off now or hold until tomorrow.

>>77343319
been holding my jerk for a week though...

>>77343292
For a fair street fight, the single best thing you can do is get big and fast. The second best thing to do is learn to use your hands and elbows and forehead as a weapon as much as possible. That’s boxing, maybe kickboxing or Muay Thai albeit not as much. Wrestling is good but mainly because wrestlers are usually athletic and tough as shit and not because their wrestling will teach them to slump somebody. In order on the likelihood for a fight yo be ended its weapons, ganging up, sneak attacks, etc. number 1, punching knockout or head butt number 2, body slams number 3, and pure wrestling/BJJ basically dead last. So what I’m saying is wrestling into your 20s probably is the best thing you can do but not because wrestling will teach you how to fight. It’s because wrestling will make you fast and strong and tough, which counts for A LOT.

>>77343295
Well they’re the ones that start it but it just is the truth that some things are more useful in reality than others. Wrestling and boxing are not martial arts by the way. Neither are other contact and power sports like football. What I’m saying is I would put money on a big and fast football player over some unremarkable athleticism and size jiu jitsu expert any day of the week. It’s not MA v MA. It’s MA vs reality is what I’m saying.

>>77343300
You missed the part where I said a lot of them manlets and nerds. These BJJ guys are skilled but a lot of them are weak and slow. The reality is there are many rooms where a guy bigger and faster than them would kill them.

>>77343319
You are brand new dude. Who cares? Just give it your best shot.

>>77343323
it's mano vs mano is what im saying. there's too many factors to even determine MA vs MA. no martial arts will EVER teach you how to handle a fight in real life, there's way too many variables. this whole cringe of MA for SD gotta stop....

>>77343326
that's my plan!
my only worry is I've been having the runs for a god damn week. hasn't been a problem in practice but fuckkkkkkkk if i shit myself in competition im gonna KMS irl.

>>77343327
That’s too extreme. There is some SD application for MAs like Jiu Jitsu. It’s just not very significant. To be clear, we feel the need to point this out because it’s the MAfags that insist it with everyone everywhere all the time. Clearly you don’t know any.

>>77343319
>tips/advice
The fact you're already coping is a good thing.
It's okay to lose fights, this is the real difference between being a long term fighter and a short term hobbyist.
If you haven't gotten absolutely destroyed once in your life, you won't know the difference you need to put in to stop it from happening again and putting in a real fight later.

Don't jerk off about four days before the tournament. You don't want blue balls, propstate/pelvic floor stress, but unironically dipping your testosterone levels right before a meet is fucking stupid. Couple of days before is fine.
It's fine to do light activity, too many people try to rest all the time and they have absurd energy levels and cannot sleep the night or so before and feel like shit.

Going for a very light walk, stretching small amounts, gentle muscle activation, hobbies that stimulate the mind to help use up some energy is fine. don't wear yourself out, hydration is very important.
foods I got no advice, no matter what I ate before I went for a fight I had anxiety shits the morning of and sometimes had to poop twice.
Nothing worst than needing to poop right before the match, but it's actually pretty common.

>>77343329
Kek I would probably take something to stop that diarrhea and try to vacate my bowels the morning of with electrolyte water and coffee but that could end up going badly too Kek

>>77343329
FWIW I wouldn’t compete if I had the runs. You shouldn’t compete or train in basically any sport if you have diarrhea, particularly if you’re brand new. It’s not only not smart or an optimal way to grow but it’s also potentially dangerous. It’s just a hobby man. You really want to shit or hurt yourself over a brand new hobby?

>>77343278
>"too"
I'm glad you agree with me.

>>77343283
Yeah that's the problem, ever since Gracie won that one competition decades ago now every BJJ guy thinks they are unbeatable because of their "superior martial art".

I remember one time seeing a video about a black belt teaching some newbies and rolling with a legit (no joke) 50 year old skinny lady (it was her first day) and she was trying to grab his fingers to get free and he was just like "NOOOO THATS NOT ALLOWEDDD STOPPPP MUH HECKIN SMALL JOINT MANIPULATIONNN".

How fucking embarrassing. So much for the unbeatable martial art.

It's important to note that >>77342139 is correct - BJJ has been commercialized to the point where there are a ton of trash dojos out there. Same thing that happened to Karate. A lot of Karate dojos just put you doing Katas for legit 2 years and thats all the "training" because they are very scared to spar. But occasionally you can find a good one that actually teaches you how to fight.

To be clear, I don't even hate BJJ, I just hate the propaganda about it being the best thing ever.

Its a good martial art. Its a fun sport. But its not complete (like most), if you care about actual fighting or self defense, you gotta use it alongside other bases like AT LEAST some boxing for striking.

>>77343333
yeah I was thinking of taking imodium but having constipation tomorrow sounds like another bucket of trouble...... at least once I let the liquid acid free in the morning it just kinda settles down in the afternoon (although it still has that brewing going)
>>77343331
Ye, it's sorta early in the morning so I think oatmeal should just be fine. (hopefully it'll help the runs too). I know of a few people who I'm going to be rolling with and they're cool. still need to practice a lot of my subs. I got a few down but they're really situational. RNC, Arm bar, Kimura, Americano, Leg Triangle but I'm stuck on learning what to do from mount. Just brain freeze because my instant thought is pound his face in or choke but obviously you can't do that shit lol.

On the other hand, is there resources for BJJ like a bible I can look for different subs/read up about different techniques while out of the club?

>>77343289
Sounds like you're not doing anything useful with your life. Kinda guy who probably quits jobs every six months because he doesn't like his boss telling him what to do lol let me guess, you "don't need to know how to fight" and "just see red"?

>>77343285
Yeah you definitely don't understand any kind of real training. You're 100% the kinda guy who banged it out with some skinny fat or obese guys a few times in your 20's and think you understand violence. Thank God you are a writer, you'd be a pain in the ass to do any serious training with.

>>77343347
Writer should be quiter.

>>77343341
If you care about self defense, you are absolutely majoring in the minors if you’re spending most of your time learning anything other than how to verbally de-escalate, get away, or use a gun. By all means, get big and fast and learn a bit of boxing or takedown defense and throws and grappling as a last resort but I can tell you that I’ve seen enough fights so south that I’ve learned try to fight your way through them is one of the dumber decisions you can make. And this is the real reason I hate BJJ. They think they’re training a get out of jail free self defense and street fighting card when they’re actually training an absolute last resort of last resorts with very little practical application that benefits you.

>>77343352
most of my bjj gyms that I've seen and joined always teach the forbidden technique "no be there" aka you win a fight by not fighting. idk what gyms you've been to. like learning martial arts to learn how to fight is so fucking stupid to me. real life isn't tekken or anything. It's all whoa i'm jet li bruce lee jackie chan until someone chucks a rock at your head and it hits the wrong spot.

>>77343285
This is 100% right and I’m not sure why people are coping about this. Every single coaching or mentoring class is like this. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about an apprenticeship, a boxing gym, or a middle school baseball team. 20% of the class/team will get all of the instructors’ attention and care. The number 1 thing students should be taught is to find a good gym and number 2 is to climb into the top bucket of pupils. Once you’ve done that, you can get good coaching but until you do that you won’t.

>>77343353
Going to a BJJ gym and them teaching you to run away from fights is unironically a red flag. They should be teaching you the sport of jiu jitsu grappling and nothing else. The fact that they’re even telling you anything at all having to do with self defense in any way most likely means it’s a shitty dojo. That is literally not their job or what you’re paying for.

>>77343358
>teaching you to run away
? brother almost every gym should have this. going into a martial arts gym and larpers go "YEAH IM GONNA TEACH YOU SOME HIDDEN TECHNIQUE TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR PURSE SNATCHER" is some retarded shit.

FYI the two most and perhaps only practical self defense applications for jiu jitsu are fighting for a knife or a gun, but if you’re in that situation to begin with you’re either in extreme danger or already dying from multiple stab wounds. And even then I’d personally rather be a good wrestler and able to throw a vicious right hook. Furthermore, all these guys joining a dojo in their 20s and 30s thinking they can still go pro (there are many believe it or not) are living in fantasy land. All BJJ pupils should be taught these simple facts on day one so they can stop with the epidemic of BJJ cultist delusions.

>>77343360
That’s retarded man. That’s like saying a boxing gym should teach you to verbally edge-escalate. That is literally not what you’re paying for. Anything about self defense out all is beyond their expertise.

>>77343380
It's not like you're getting a whole lecture of "don't fight outside" but people entering the gym shouldn't be encouraged TO fight. that's the difference.

This thread is great proof that 99% of muscle bound losers are truly inept at anything but moving weights up and down. Hahahahahaah

>>77343352
>haha the best way to win a fight is to not fight at all :)
Yeah, I agree except this doesnt always work and sometimes there will be a black guy with low IQ and he won't listen to reason. Just thinking "I will be able to talk my way out of it due to my superior social skills :) " is dumb.

Yeah, violence should be the last resort, but just "not being there" is not always possible and you should still try to be at least minimally combat capable.

I'm not saying people should become a military deadly weapon, but this "haha combat sports actually dont matter in confrontations" is retarded. There will always be situations where there is nothing you can do and you just die (example - if they have a gun or a gang of several people), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to minimize the possibilities of just getting beaten up.

Ironically, I've been getting into a lot of hobbies recently but I've found BJJ clubs the friendliest bunch. The worst was any nerdy hobbies....

>>77343391
It really doesn't. No be there is ALWAYS your fucking best defense.

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>>77343397
>"Not being there is not always possible"
>Just do it anon its the best :)

Alright man I'll just learn to teleport next time the local meth addict asks me for a smoke.

>>77343383
Fair enough. I thought you were saying something different. Yeah, pupils should be told that that they’re not learning fighting and should avoid fights.

>>77343391
Yeah, but you’re still kinda missing the point. You know what the best self defense against an unruly black person is? Relentless racism. Don’t live around blacks, dont be around blacks, if you see blacks cross the street, don’t turn your back to blacks, don’t sit in front of blacks. Like there are three realistic self defense scenarios. One is simply avoiding blacks and browns like they’re unpredictable wild animals. The other is fighting for a knife or gun, probably because you’ve failed to do the former. The third is just some dickhead with road rage or picking a fight at a bar, in which case you should be be de-escalating and avoiding conflict. Like I worked at a bar for years man. You know what I saw a lot? Some drunk prick or unruly nig is mean to someone’s gf and the bf feels like they have to do something. What doesn’t work is charging up to him, demanding apologies, squaring up, fighting. What works more is politely and privately asking them to apologize. What works most is not being in some bar where there’s going to be drunks or people who will pull knives or guns or have his gang of YNs sucker punch you then stomp your teeth in while your gf screams. If you’re in a situation where your hand to hand combat training might be useful, it’s strictly because you failed to make about 20 other decisions that could’ve avoided the situation entirely.

>>77343396
BJJ gyms are good ways to make male friends. A lot of the guys are obnoxious pricks but a lot are just cool chill dudes that like to have fun. More young men should train BJJ. They just shouldn’t be delusional about it.

>>77343410
Anon, I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but you are really simplifying a complicated situation.

A lot of people live and will always live in a shithole country/area with no access to education or proper job that will allow them to move. Saying "just go to another country" as a solution is a bit oversimplifying.

And even if you move to a "good country/area", it really doesn't prevent you from the possibility of having an issue. Even in the best of countries you can piss off a road rage retard boomer and he comes to fuck your shit up. It minimizes the danger, but its never non existent.

And what about other scenarios, like you are a small 5'0 girl? Do you just give up and get raped if an immigrant gets to you? You know they are in first world countries, don't you anon? I dunno what country you thought of, but they are there too, I can assure you.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, being in a country that has minimal crime is the best remedy to avoid issues, but it really isn't as simple as you make it out to be, and if you don't understand that, I feel like you are just too privileged to have had opportunities that enabled you to have these choices.

The fact of the matter is that knowing martial arts and having some conditioning is always beneficial. I'm not saying you should get into fights, if all goes well, you should die of old age without ever fighting. But it doesn't invalidate training.

>>77343434
I grew up in the hood and lived in niggadelphia for six years dude. I’m not complicating it at all. No matter what city you live in, spending any amount of free time in a nig area is 100% a choice. Sure, I grant that some people are cashiers or have to ride the city bus. But first of all, those people should do everything they can to leave their nig neighborhood and probably city. If they ride the bus they should flatly refuse to sit in front of blacks. If they are at an event and they see blacks, never let them get behind you or let a group get close. You sincerely should look at these “people” like their wild dogs. If you got on a bus and there was a pack of wild dogs sitting in the back, would you just take a seat? No, you wouldn’t. You would just not take the bus. You’d save up $200 bucks and buy a bike at the very least. I will grant there is always the chance that you’re living in a suburb or small town and some black decides he’s going to mug you for your shit, but if you make smart decisions and keep your wits about you, your chance drops to near zero. This goes doubly true for girls. No young woman should be living alone in a city overflowing with blacks. End of story. Any father, brother, boyfriend that allows that has failed to keep her safe. And besides, are you trying to tell me a 5’0” girl can train BJJ to stop some crazed nig from stabbing her to death on the bus? It’s not going to happen! The ONLY way to secure your life and your property is with multiple layers of self defense that start with avoidance, awareness, and de-escalation. Fighting for a knife or gun in closer to the bottom. Think about it. If you are ever in a position where you have to fight a crazed nig for his knife, he has probably stabbed you 10 times in the chest or abdomen while you fight for it. you’re talking about should always

>>77343434
Let me put it this way. Simply avoiding blacks and mobs, knowing how to avoid escalating scenarios, draw and shoot a pistol, are all about 100x more likely to save your life than any amount of strength, conditioning, or hand to hand combat skill. You are at best majoring in the minors with martial arts.

What everyone needs to understand about self defense is that blacks and browns have literally killed more people in unprovoked attacks than any creature on earth other than viruses, bacteria, and the creatures that spread them like mosquitos. They are more dangerous to be around than wolves, bears, feral dogs, literally every creature on the planet you consider dangerous and would never ever stand around casually. Awareness of this simple fact and acting accordingly will do you infinitely more good than any amount of training anything ever will. And if I’m going to be held up by a pavement ape, I would much prefer knowing how to restrain a gun arm while drawing my own than knowing how to butt scoot and put someone in an arm bar. The former is practical, maybe necessary. The latter is delusional and retarded.

okay who attracted the /pol/ fags

>>77343467
Are you upset reality isn’t race blind enough to save your life or what?

just avoid all people, you're all fucking retarded mentally ill losers about ready to give up everything for nothing.

>>77342081
To be fair, you're asking about maneuvers that aren't part of the style
Takedowns are judo, not jiu jitsu (and especially not brazilian jiu jitsu)
That's like asking when you do all the fancy flying kick shit when you join a boxing gym

>>77343476
Avoiding dangerous people is 90% of SD. The other 10% is training for what to do when you can’t. For that all, I can say is police body cam videos are highly educative and there’s a reason we give them guns but not BJJ lessons.

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>>77343445
>>77343449
>Just de-escalate everything in your whole life bro, it will be fine
>Just move countries, everyone can do it, its really easy because I was able to do it, so everyone can too :)
>Oh, me? I grew up in philadelphia, the most dangerous place in the world (don't look at third world countries tho)
>Minorities don't exist in other countries and it will be fine, just move there :)
>Nothing bad is ever gonna happen ever (probably) (maybe) (perhaps) (I hope)
>You are about girl raped on the bus? Just "don't be there (™)".
>Oh, you were there? Well it's your fault for not following the main rule of confrontation avoidance, so now you just gotta give up and take it without any resistance.
>Combat skills do literally 0 in every situation, don't bother with anything ever

Alright guys, I'll just agree to disagree with that, no point in arguing any further. I don't think anyone is gonna change their mind here.

The "dont bother trying to do anything ever and just give up" mentality is retarded and has the same vibes of people posting "why bother lifting if I'm not a 6'5 huge dick perfect chad adonis".

>>77343538
Nice strawman but your bowing out is appreciated

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So its understood that the best martial art for a street fight is krav maga right?
Sure its sourced from kikes, but from what I understand its perfect for street fighting

There are no rules in a street fight, if its life or death, youd obviously go for eyes, the balls, whatever you could do. Especially if its on a concrete floor, bjj and wrestling would risk you hitting the ground harder than youd like

So logically speaking, krav maga is the best street fighting martial art, no honour and no badass points, but its the most effective and likely to get you a win

>>77342203
The gun

>>77343601
Lmao it's aikido for people who drink black rifle coffee

>>77343603
bro im aussie getting a gun is a fucking headache here, cant just head over to woolies and grab it off the rack like youse

>>77343555
>muh strawman
Everything stated in my comment was mentioned in the previous comment chain. There's a lot to read so I know you might have struggled with it, it's okay.

>bowing out is appreciated
No problem man, I'm just doing my best de-escalating the situation with 2 retarded niggers. I heard its the best way to avoid confrontation.

So far you responded back in under 10 minutes so it's not working great yet.

>>77343347
kek ayo this dude unironically jeet posting on /fit/.
just because you went to an MMA gym once doesn't compare to those of us who have been training religiously for decades m8.
the amount of projection in your post could only be done by someone with serious deficiencies in their self esteem.

>>77343355
been my experience every time m8.
I take what I can, spend maybe a year or two at a gym learning a few things and just move on.
spending years at a specific gym and doing the repetitive motions with no specialized instructions past the first few months to get you into your own strengths for sure means the gym is a hoax to get beta bux.
Afterall that is the literal business model of 99% of gyms on the planet no matter their training or activities.
They are banking on people not returning == free money
People that don't take it that seriously == more free time
The few off you leftover cannot share a single instructor in a meaningful way, being a coach for a singular sportsman activity is a full time job, anyone saying otherwise has never been in this field. You might get a sponsored group where a manager sits over lesser coaches, sure i've seen that, but not at a local gym.
Once you reach the point you need to specialize your fighting style and there is no one to work with you multiple times a week you are being scammed. You've literally learned all you can from that gym.
During training seasons I had a guy I met up with 3 times weekly for combative performance and two other guys that kept track of separate things like cardio and weight for everyone and sent it to each fighters respective coaches.
It was a full time job in its own right, every single night was tracking of weight, every week was tracking lifts, cardio, deficiencies.
A professional fighter has teams of up to 8 people including head coach, two secondary coaches, physiotherapist, dietitian, and usually about three different sparring partners not in the same circuit who exist for very specific reasons.

So the cope in this thread is real.
If you've never even been at a point you've had a full time coach at an MMA gym, your opinion on this subject isn't enough to talk about it.
Because you for sure fell for the one of those mallMMA gyms that are next to vape shop scams.
newfags everywhere.

Do Japanese Jiu Jitsu, the original. They practice with weapons too.

>>77343642
Yeah, nah, not buying this "trainers don't train me because I'm too good" bullshit while you're saying you trained for decades lmao going to free trial classes every month and trying to impress people half your age isn't as cool as you think it is. Guarantee they laugh about you to this day.
Go haymaker your 60lbs punching bag in your garage and marvel at your true fighting prowess, nerd lol

>>77343666
Good trips for such a braindead cock sucking post. Imagine actually believing martial arts is this difficult to learn. Imagine thinking you need a hand on coach. If you've got books & open mat days you can blast past all that faggy bullshit. For fuck sake, ain't no one doing that shit unless they're competing. Sybau.

>>77342810
>You do realize that judo contains the entirety of BJJ
No it doesn't, it potentially contains Jiu Jitsu, the Japanese original, which still has gyms and is still taught, but has no new moves, just the traditional ones. BJJ is defined by being continually innovated, there is a canon of classic moves but nobody is stopping you from inventing new ones, like they are in the weeaboo schools.
Judo is also a sport with lots of rules, you are forbidden from touching the legs, which even Japanese jiu jitsu allows, obviously, so judo doesn't even contain all of that. And nobody who does judo practices ground fighting, they're worse than the inverse at BJJ schools who won't practice takedowns, because there's literally no point, the fight is over once you throw your opponent and they land flat on their back. Training for any other skill is time wasted for a judoka. You wouldn't train a boxer what to do in a hecking real fight once the opponent is on the ground.

>>77342879
I think the steep learning curve is from judo schools being dogshit. At least in the UK, where they're cheap because they're government subsidised, but they're so traditional I don't doubt they are all pretty similar in the structure of the class. BJJ classes are also pretty similar worldwide, in a good way, where the instructor breaks down a sequence of moves and you practice every step, then try putting it together, then free sparring.
Judo you walk down the mat doing half throws, and one actual throw onto the crashmats. No feedback, no description of the throw, no resistance from the person you're throwing. It's hard to learn, simply because you're wandering around in the dark teaching yourself.

At least, in my experience. 5 years of judo, didn't learn a thing.

>>77343671
Gay traditionalist sport. The only reason people do it is because it's "the original". That doesn't automatically make it better, the new version has all the original moves plus 500% more new ones, and none of the weeaboo larp.

>>77344308
You're a fucking retard who obviously has no fucking clue what the rules sets for various judo comps are, it's also painfully obvious you've never watched a judoka roll with a BJJ puke. Judo, good gyms that train the whole style and not just 1 rule set, does in fact train all the same submissions as BJJ and they're most often much fucking better at it. Like it's fucking hilarious to see top level rollers get utterly ragdolled & promptly submitted. Stop reading Wikipedia dipshit.
>BJJ has le innovative new moves
No they don't, they have asinine variations with extremely niche applications that can ALWAYS be replaced with a simpler trad technique.

>>77344308
>Has never seen a NAGA or FUJI BJJ
Also, you do know it was Judo that planted the seeds for BJJ, right? Everything that BJJ began as was taken straight from Judo, not JJ. All BJJ is, is a bastardized version of JJ derived from dumbed down & over complicated Judo. Yes sport Judo schools concern themselves primarily with takedowns but the actual style includes everything from BJJ that's worth knowing. Gracies didn't do anything but repackage a pussified version.

>>77344332
>Judo, good gyms that train the whole style and not just 1 rule set, does in fact train all the same submissions as BJJ
So you're moving the goal-post from
>Judo contains all of BJJJ
To
>Judo schools that teach judo plus all of BJJ teach judo that contains all of BJJ
There's nothing to argue with if you pre-install being correct in your argument. Congrats. I'm appealing to authority, that being the judo they do at the Olympics. That's what everyone other than you means when they talk about judo. Obviously. Yet you're the one to call me a retard.

>that can ALWAYS be replaced with a simpler trad technique
OK well this is now another cringe martial arts argument about whose is best and I'd totally beat you in rock paper scissors and there's no end to it, it's a volley of NUH UH I'D WIN. I'll just say, in principle, if you have innovation, if it's not against the rules as it is in traditional jiu jitsu, then you're probably going to develop something good, not just endless slop, simply because mathematically all the old esoteric masters couldn't have lived long enough to develop the perfect martial art, even if they were geniuses. THAT'S cultist behaviour, to think that it's all been perfected already by the wise prophet who revealed these techniques. Even BJJfags don't worship the Gracies that much that they'd (we'd) say
>That's it, there's nothing more to learn, it's perfect

>>77344358
>Also, you do know it was Judo that planted the seeds for BJJ, right?
Duh
>dumbed down & over complicated Judo
Well, which is it dumbed down or over complicated?
>Yes sport Judo schools concern themselves primarily with takedowns but the actual style includes everything from BJJ that's worth knowing
I think it would prove itself in the real world. No judoka is doing BJJ at the Olympics, and nobody in any BJJ or MMA league comes from judo. What are we doing here.

>>77343352
>majoring in the minors
I like this, it's a good phrase I don't hear enough for how useful it is to be reminded of
>they’re actually training an absolute last resort of last resorts with very little practical application that benefits you
That is, ultimately, a good minor to major in though, I've heard it described as learning how to swim so you don't drown. Ideally you're never in the ocean without a boat, but better to know than not know. Everyone who drowns these days knows how to swim, but still it's a no-brainer. You can climb the chain of "xyz is pointless" all the way to an existential crisis, I wouldn't go further than 2 links MAX. I can already rationalise further up than what you said
>You're wasting your time if you're not learning to day trade so you can get rich quick so you can afford a full time bodyguard to protect you, that's the REAL way to stay safe
I might actually be right, hold on, why aren't we all VIPmaxxing

>>77343341
If I can go to a BJJ gym run by an actual Gracie, should I?

>>77344519
Not unless you like gay, guru-worship style classes for an exorbitant amount of money monthly.

>>77342081
give it to me straight bros, theres a (freestyle) wrestling club near me but should I even join at 25? people seem to universally agree that you can only learn it when starting young. I really want to try it

>>77343323
agreed

cv:
> fought in cage
> fought on mats
> fought in ring
> worked as security
> about 15 years of martial art training, from karate to kickboxing to mma to bjj

things you need to know for winning a street fight:

1. slip, hook - 90% of people will swing their first hit
2. single/double/hip throw - only useful takedowns that wont get you fucked, but if you throw someone down STAND UP AND STOMP OR SOCCER KICK DO NOT GRAPPLE
3. elbow, knee, forehead, elbow, knee, forehead - fists can easily break, most people dont expect these and they do insane damage
4. sprawl, knee, sprawl, knee
5. dont roll, dont go for submission
6. dont roll, dont go for submission
7. try not to start a fight, people carry knives, guns and have friends


bjj is pretty much useless, but it makes the losers who never had a fight feel "manly" for "being a combat athlete". its like the airsoft dudes pretending to be special forces or some shit. like the call of duty camo wearing neckbears lol.

i tried going for submission once in a street fight, i had 2 guys trying to soccer kick me while the guy I was rolling with started biting.

oh yea, important - most people hit like pussies lmao

>>77344747
>Picked the wrong tool for the job
>"This tool is useless!"
Lmao

>>77344747
>>77344747
>extremely narrow set of moves
>and completely low resolution
>missing equally good moves
you're lying
fighting isn't pokemon, you don't get to pick and choose like that

>hip throw
in an o goshi the first thing that hits your mat is your own elbow
if you do this on a hard surface, you are going to break your own elbow
and standing variations of o goshi suck
a better move from the exact same position is a hustle uki goshi, or a standing tai otoshi
and you should have something as a follow up if the o goshi isn't there, eg a kouchi ankle pick

which takedowns should you favor, compared to mma?
just choose ones that are:
low intensity
not hitting the ground

low intensity, so you don't injure yourself, so you don't get reversed, and so you don't maim or kill your opponent
there's heaps of moves that meet this criteria

>bjj is pretty much useless
if you end up in a bad position on the ground?
if you end up needing to restrain a person?

>>77344358
Everything that BJJ began as was taken straight from Judo, not JJ
this is retarded
combat sports, especially in the modern era, experience innovations frequently. the bleeding edge evolves very fast

some examples of moves that are extremely fundamental yet received massive innovation in recent history:
the modern russian tie system comes from the 70s, and didn't become well-known amongst americans til the 80s and 90s
there were massive innovations in juji gatame in the 70s

I think that if something as fundamental as how we do the russian or the juji is actually very modern, it's ridiculous to suggest that BJJ didn't invent anything new.
I'm sure someone did a fishnet in judo once, but did they have a sophisticated system for it? Or a sophisticated tren lock? a sophisticated false reap?

>>77342203
Muay Thai is the most practical combat sport

>>77343277
Pretty accurate as to what actually happens

Have any of these martial arts threads ever produced a real conversation about martial arts?

It's always insecure uncs making up anecdotes to comfort themselves that *their* teens/20-something martial arts exposure was actually the best form of it, set them up as a badass for life, and there's nothing left to learn. Followed by gymcel cope about lifting weights being better than actually training a martial art. It might be healthier if you guys instead just had chatgpt reassure you that you're masculine.

>>77342081
We do takedowns on my gym. Go to a better gym or don't who cares.

>>77344747
i get that going to the ground and going for submissions is not practical on the street. But would you still argue that having a grappling base is still important? hell after hearing your story im more inclined to learn judo before bjj

>>77345294
extremely narrow because it is extremely effective. evade a punch, hit, take down, stomp or soccer kick, get out. if you end up on top of them, elbow, if you are below, headbut their nose then hip flip.

> standing variations of o goshi suck
> better move from the exact same position is a hustle uki goshi, or a standing tai otoshi

it sucks in judoka vs judoka, but in judoka vs 3 random dudes, its great. but choose your preference. im tall so idgaf and an uki goshi or tai otoshi is easy on most people. for me standing o goshi throws arent really it because of hip position, but smaller dudes sure.

>and you should have something as a follow up if the o goshi isn't there, eg a kouchi ankle pick

yeah, at that point the bash will begin, but they will probably be unstable already, and you dont wanna go that low for an ankle pick, rather knee them in the face a few times


>if you end up in a bad position on the ground?

choke, headbutt, elbow and get them off as fast as you can. most people cant hold a mount and will just try to swing and pummel at you, not think about their position.

>if you end up needing to restrain a person?

a standing guillotine is a basic move that everyone aroudn the world knows. but in most cases, you dont want to restrain the person, as they will use the first chance to get back at you. even if they seem chill, next second they might grab a bottle to smash your face in.


>>77345294

i prefer having a striking base with a good takedown defense, but thats just me. best "base" is whichever one:
- you know you will train for a while
- will teach you to remain calm in a situation
- that least depends on "sport point finessing".

in the end, the martial art is the least important one, and "fight iq" is the most important thing.
most people dont know how to hit, how to grapple or how to take a punch. knowing any of those is an advantage.

>>77342081
be a real man and do a striking martial art. any faggy "takedown" is very quickly stopped by a knee or elbow to the face.

>>77342081
They're a cult especially if it's Brazilian or Vietnamese or whatever. You learn good shit though if you get jumped by street niggers but it's not really worth it.

>>77345635
so you're slamming your elbow plus the weight of two men directly onto the ground in da streetz?
sounds like you're lying
why would you bring your hips all the way across if you're just using it to bring their head down for knees? uki goshi would be way better, like that little uki goshi where you just extend your knee
>and you dont wanna go that low for an ankle pick
can knee pick instead
your head is already low cos you just attempted a turn throw
but yes using a turn throw to bring their head low to knee is a good move, i just don't think o goshi is it
>choke, headbutt, elbow and get them off as fast as you can
you're headbutting people from the bottom?
if you're trying to get up a choke is definitely not the way to go. I assume you mean a guillotine grip?
and you're just trying to "get them off as fast as you can"? you should probably use technique for that lol
>but in most cases, you dont want to restrain the person, as they will use the first chance to get back at you. even if they seem chill, next second they might grab a bottle to smash your face i
a lot of violence in the real world isn't that. it's between people that know each other. family members, friends, partners. or it's roughhousing in a sports match. or you could be a cop, a prison guard, or work in medicine or emergency services. or if you go to jail or are a yob, it'll often be an organised punch on with some rules - not that i'd advocate going to jail or being around yobs.
the point is kicking someone in the head or choking them with a guillotine isn't always a good idea
>a standing guillotine is a basic move that everyone aroudn the world knows
a standing guillotine for the most part isn't a good finish nor a good restraint. and because it's mildly a choke it's not good as a long term restraint, and is likely to make someone freak out it some situations.

BJJ is a meme martial art for white middle class reddit programmers who have never thrown a punch in their lives. If you want to become an actual dangerous person who can beat the shit out of the majority of people you come across, which isn't really as important or beneficial as you might think, you need to do boxing, MMA, or Muay Thai.

>>77342081
Black belt reporting in. It's because 90% of injuries come from wrestling and it's near impossible to take someone from nothing to good at wrestling post-25. BJJ gyms are a business and they can't exist without your $150/month cult fee.

>>77343167
Martial arts is the original toxic masculinity. Me stronger than other caveman me take his woman (doesn't happen in reality just like people who think they will get women by bloatmaxxing and diddlying 750lbs.)

>>77342083
they're all bad though. BJJ in particular is bad but the whole MMA scene has infected martial arts.

clubs used to be run on good will, volunteers, people who did it because they liked it. no one was expecting to make their living with play fighting techniques. mma and gracies have basically attracted a bunch of predatory psychopaths and made it so it's minimum $150/mo + some form of abuse (mental, physical, sexual, etc) to participate in any martial art club

>t. old school karate/judofag