There is not a worse split than this. In ONE DAY you have to hit your chest, shoulders, back, bicep and tricep. Impossible if you don't fuck around in the gym and train hard. After doing heavy compounds for back and chest you will be so tired the rest of your workout will be subpar.If you try to cut down the volume instead, you will barely even stimulate the muscle. Why even bother to "train" biceps that day is all you will do is 2 sets of curls? Better to just leave it for another day.The upper body muscles are much more complex than your lower body thus they require more variety, so you will be in the gym for 2-3 hours. And with leg day, all you have to do is squats and RDLs and you are done with them. So your lower days will take under 1 hour easily whereas upper days can take more than 2 hours.This are just simple facts, and you can't make me think otherwise because I am simply right.
>>77344448upper 1:>bench press or machine chest press>barbell row or machine row>bicep curl>tricep pushdown or overhead extensionupper 2:>barbell ohp or machine ohp>pull up or lat pull down>bicep curl>tricep pushdown or overhead extensionthis is too much for you?
>>77344448>In ONE DAY you have to hit your chest, shoulders, back, bicep and tricep.No. You're doing it wrong.>The upper body muscles are much more complex than your lower bodyNo. JFC you're literally retarded. <--THIS IS THE PROBLEM. SIAF.
>>77344459In upper 1 you don't hit your shoulders (front delts from bench press don't count) and in upper 2 the same issue with your chest. With upper-lower you try to be the jack of all traits but you end up as master of none. None of those exercises stimulate any body part enough in one workout. Also, read my post:>Why even bother to "train" biceps that day is all you will do is 2 sets of curls? Better to just leave it for another day.Good luck with your amazing progress at 4-6 sets of curls a week. Your programming is as shit as your ability to read.
>>77344463>>The upper body muscles are much more complex than your lower body>No. JFC you're literally retarded.Does your lower body have a shoulder joint? No it doesn't. Do you get enough growth in your arms by doing compounds like barbell rows, bench press or OHP? No, you do not.Your lower body are just overgrown arms. Hammstrings being the bicep of the legs, and quads being the tricep. Therefore RDLs and squats are all you need. Glutes get enough stimulation from both those exercises, so you're covered. You can't say the same thing with ANY of the upper body exercises.
so whats your solution, Op? A bro split?
>>77344464you're probably just out of shapei can do rows, squats, ohp, pull ups and curls in the same workout just fine
>>77344471I do whole body three days a week because I can't fit a four-day split into my week anymore, but if I was going to do that it would be ULRULRR, which was the best, least fatiguing schedule I ever had, on which I made the most progress. You're doing it wrong.Upper one should be:Bench press (intensity)Overhead press / variation (volume)Biceps / variations (including pullups)Upper two should be:Overhead press (intensity)Bench press / variation (volume)Biceps / variations (including pullups)You program triceps on your lower days, not your upper days, as an accessory. Barbell row is a deadlift variation, so it belongs on a lower day, the one you don't deadlift.JFC this isn't hard.
>>77344448I agree. Focusing more on lower is significantly better. My wife's black bull approves this and he performs way better after gropping my arse for a little bit before going for my wife.
>>77344477something similar to arnold split. I do:Day 1: Back & Chest & shoulders (bb row, ring dips, pullups, bench press, ohp)Day 2: Arms (ezbar curls, incline curls, french press, skullcrushers, lateral raises)Day 3: Legs & Abs (squats, RDLs, ring rollouts, weighted situps)Day 4: restDay 5: Chest & Back again with some variety compared to day 1Day 6: Arms againDay 7: restMost exercises I do 2-3 sets only, except for lower day where I do more sets since it's only 1 day a week. You hit everything twice a week with good volume (8-12 hard sets a week is enough to grow) and only takes me an hour max. Not some upper/lower BS where you are 2 hours into your workout and still have to do biceps. Good like with your spider physiques guys.>>77344485Ever tried lifting with intensity? A hard set of rows and squats would kill you. But I guess if you're doing it with 135 lbs its manageable.>>77344509>upper/lower>do upper thing such as your tricep or traps on your lower dayLMFAO. Why call it upper-lower split then? Create your own split name, like retard split or something similar.BTW>JFCHello picrel, come back when you're finished with highschool
>>77344536Imposter
>>77344536You are not Zeke anon. Zeke anon doesn't miss. You missed.
I jist split upper in 2 days. One day lats, checst, traps, biceps, triceps, abs. Second day shoulders and rotator cuff.
pushofflegsoffpulloffoffrepeat
>>77344554Post body / post lifts. We both know you won't.
>>77344509Looks pretty similar to my Upper days as well.Good way to get the best bang for your buck.
>>77344448Monday: Chest and Shoulders, CardioTuesday: CardioWednesday: Back and Arms, CardioThursday: CardioFriday: Chest and Shoulders, CardioSaturday: CardioSunday: CardioAll you need.
>>77344448Having a separate arms day after Upper that doubles as a rest day solves the riddle.
>>77344448>X is impossible if you actually train hardEveryone who says this just has extremely limited work capacity.
>>77344448>I'm not an intermediate but I tried an intermediate routine and couldn't do it so it's badTale old as lifting.
>>77344578PushPullLegsCardio/Core/Shoulders/muscles that need touching upRepeat either Push, Pull or Legs depending on what needs workOffOff
upper/lower is a womans split
>>77344448day 1Heavy OHPVolume benh Day 2 Pull ups Volume squats Day 3 Heavy bench Volume OHP day 4 Heavy squats Pull ups
>>77345798My brother there is an entire world of options waiting out there for you.
>>773444482 working sets of curls is literally all you need.. but you will never train hard enough to understand that.
>>77344448Antagonistic supersets fix this
>>77345507Not OP, but isn't upper lower one of the most recommended splits for beginners? It's always either that or full body. When I think of intermediate splits, I think of PPL, high frequency FBW (I'm talking 5 days a week), or specialization programs to bring up weak points.
>>77345962>2 working sets of curls is literally all you needmentzer fagwhy don't we go further and claim chinups is all you need?
just pick a program that works for you
>>77344448>This are just simple facts, and you can't make me think otherwise because I am simply right.I do ULAULAx with A being dedicated to arms, rear delts, calves, minor hamstring accessories, and abs/sprints. I also guarantee I lift more than you at probably a lower weight.
>>77346415No it's solidly intermediate. This is Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine and he's been primary advocate for upper lowers. Which he says still is more of vague template than a prescription and once you're nearing advanced he recommends fiddling with the rep ranges or replacing more with machine work so two days are lighter/less fatigue inducing and two are heavier.To make this beginner/novice friendly you'd have to shave off half the sets. Getting around 2 on most compounds and maybe just pause set out 25 reps with the accessory work.Another big distinction is intermediates go to failure much more sparingly so this set bloat probably wouldn't be possible even for an intermediate if it was all to failure.
Shit, forgot picture.
>>77348043>>77348040>6-7 sets for your chest>but only 2-3 for your biceps and triceps>4 sets of rear delts before arms which will make you want to kill yourself>8 sets of calves to artificially match the exercise quantity and volume with upper body>isolating lower back when you already do squats, romanian deadlifts and rowsJeesus, this plan is shit for hypertrophy. People say Lyle CuckDonald is always right but when it comes to practice, this is just utter shit. I can't blame him becuase I know he coached powerlifters most of his life, but why make a bodybuilding split then?
>>77344448You don't need to do endless vanity work. Your bis, tris, delts get hit by compound lifts.
>>77344448for me it's PxPxLxPxPx
>>77348421He is right. Although yes his obsession with calves is weird.The reasoning behind why so little direct sets for say biceps is they're also getting less direct work in the compounds. Even shoenfeld has conceded on this so when assigning "volume" compounds are still count as fractional sets for the groups they're not failing on. So if each set of row and pulldown count as somewhere between 1/3rd to half a set for biceps they're still getting around 9 sets a week on the low end.Also this is not explicitly geared towards bodybuilding just generalized bulking.
>>77348503>So if each set of row and pulldown count as somewhere between 1/3rd to half a set for biceps I wish this was true, but there is just absolutely no way 2-3 sets of rows or pulldowns work your biceps as much as one proper set of bicep curls. Unless you are some genetic hyperresponder to weights and just touching them will grow every muscle around it. Imagine you had 2 clones of the same person, one would do 4 sets of rows and 4 sets of pulldowns, and the other one would do 3-4 sets of bicep curls, who would end up having bigger bicep? Obviously the clone isolating their arm work.The premise that compounds work your arms is probably also why the plan has 8 sets of calves but 0 sets of forearms. Lyle most likely *assumes* your forearms will grow from holding onto weight, but again, most people have to isolate them. Because of that at one point i ended up with 16 inch arms but forearms were only 13 inches. Looked goofy as fuck and despite decent arms i looked DYEL in a shirt. I started isolating them a while ago and they are catching up but yeah that was a costly mistake.>this is not explicitly geared towards bodybuilding just generalized bulkingTbf this surprised me. Rear delt and calves work is mainly a bodybuilders domain. I haven't seen anyone other focus on them
>>77348744It said fractional sets meaning they're not whole sets. If they counted as whole sets it would be nearly 20 a week. They count just not as much.The rear delt stuff is semi functional/injury prevention/the rear delt is much larger than the silly diagrams show (and so is the front delt the medial delt is the midget of the pack).It a general template if you need forearms add forearms.One thing Lyle does that a lot of people don't is try to not give prescribed workouts. Every time he talks about this stuff he can't help himself but go into an endless amount of pros and cons and qualifying information. With the end goal being (I'm guessing here) that he wants you to have the tools and understanding to decide your own training and have it be effective. Just telling people what to do doesn't do that.
>>77348789>the rear delt is much larger than the silly diagrams showYeah completely agree with that, overall delts are pretty big, much more than people think. I saw some diagrams / studies somewhere once and it showed the delts have the most muscle mass from the whole upper body. It was measured by volume in cm3 or by weight, I don't remember it exactly.
Yah cuz no one's gotten big n strong training chest and back in the same day.... You're just weak and lack work capacity and programming skills.I've been doing. Full body 5x a week and still managed to add 5 pounds to my bench in the last 8 weeks. (295->300)
