and before you claim some thing like

>erm well actually if the guy is looking like a jacked and ripped fitness model, he must be doin something right!

>and if the guy is still skinnyfat despite years of serious lifting, then he clearly hasn't been doing it right!


Let me destroy that thesis

I see plenty of forever skinnyfat guys in my gym who train very hard, they have advanced lifts, they're strong, they progressively overload, they do a variety of lifts to target their muscles in different manners, they do a good amount of volume, they have good form and technique, and again, they have good lifts, and they're consistent year after year, and yet ... they seem to always looks like a random guy off the street who has never touched a weight in their life


Meanwhile there are guys look like jacked & ripped fitness models, who come into the gym, do a random selection of a few easy exercise, not using much weight, barely doing hard any sets, spending 10-15 minutes in the gym, not doing anything strenuous or hard, just random baby weights and a few random isolations, their effort is at like 10%, no progressive overload, less strength than a novice lifter, has no consistency, and yet some how has a dream physique most men wish they had

I’ve been lifting seriously since 2015, started skinntfat, just morphed into a slightly more built skinnyfat

Some people just aren’t destined to make it. My brother and cousin looked like fitness models after a year and a half of lifting
It’s just ridiculous how some aren’t destined to make it

>don’t drink
>no drugs
>fast food once a month
>look like a 3 month lifter after all that commitment

>>77344576
>I see plenty of forever skinnyfat guys in my gym who train very hard, they have advanced lifts
Never seen a single 3pl+ bencher looking weak

>>77344571
It's a big component. Even when accounting for diet and training, genetic variation means that one person can gain 2-4 times more muscle than someone at the lower end of the normal range in the same amount of time. That said, even as a low responder you can manage most of it through diet. You may never get jacked but you can hold some muscle at low bodyfat.

>>77344571
This is true. I'm pretty jacked and can do 1/2/3/4 for 10+ reps but I look like dogshit because I'm very asymmetrical and have weird muscle insertions.
But I still look better than before I started lifting.
There are guys with half my strength that look better because they have better muscle bellies and insertion points. That is a fact. But it doesn't fucking matter because you have what you have and you can still improve.

>>77344611
Same here. But for some reason /fit/ refuses to accept this reality. 99% of this board legitimately believes the gym is like a video game, where once you reach X number on a lift, that the muscles involved in that lift will become like a professional bodybuilders / powerlifters muscles.

>>77344571
>refuting anecdotes with another anecdotes

>>77344605
>one person can gain 2-4 times more muscle
I thought because of variation it was up to 10 times more

>>77344571
Oh boy this thread again

File: Screenshot 2026-06-20 at (...).png (1.15 MB, 1200x798)

1.15 MB PNG

>>77344645
>Oh boy this thread again

To "dig your head in the sand" (more commonly phrased as "burying your head in the sand") is an idiom that means deliberately ignoring an obvious problem or refusing to face unpleasant facts in the hope that they will go away.

>>77344678
I'm sorry you're so upset bro

Everyone who complains they look like shit while lifting strong are below 2/3/4/5 lol

>>77344576
First group probably looks good, you just have Body Dysmorphia By Proxy.

Second group is roids.

so many here argue like leftists defending brownoids when it comes to natty lifter

>erm actually not all blacks are violent
>erm actually not all natty lifters look bad

yeh but in reality u know not to relax around blacks, and that natty gains are in general shit

>>77344576
You're leaving out diet and nutrition for the first group (assuming you're not just bullshitting), which plays a huge part in how you'll ultimately look, especially if you're trying to beat skinnyfat.
Meanwhile for the second group, once you have built up a great physique it's relatively easy to maintain. The dues are already paid.

20% of participants (college age males mostly) end up NOT getting ANY gains from robust, scientifically designed and moderated, 8-12 week programs.

>>77344885
Source please

>>77344885
>"science based" routine invented by dyels too dumb for physics or chemistry trying to justify a salary
>doesn't work
Kek, just do barbell compound lifts

>>77344899
really any high quality fitness research, you dont really need specifics, this is a consistent thing across all studies.

>>77344571
>and I've seen people do everything correctly, who never escape skinnyfat mode.
Thats just a being white problem

>>77344914
Whites own every world record for weightlifting. Remind me how many world records your race holds? Give up and become a runner, Urkel.

>>77344918
that just means whites have a much larger range of variation, it's amazing that you don't understand this.

>>77344918
Yeah, world records on tranny gangbangs, you fucking queer

>>77344910
Cool so no source then. Got it.

>>77344571
Didn't read, you're a weak willed faggot and your idea of effort is a joke.

>>77344959
Bury your head in the sand ig

>reusing the same aphorism in different threads

It’s a tough pill to swallow but genetics and sleep determine about 80% or more of your physical potential.

>>77344576
One guy is eating at a surplus/getting enough protein and the other isn't period. If ur not bulking and eating right as a natty you will not grow period. U can work as hard as you want.

>>77344906
You can literally do machines and turn your brain off and never think again and get huge

>>77344642
I'm referring to the upper and lower end of the "normal" range, excluding extreme outliers.

>>77344693
>falsely equating natty lifts to niggers
You pump chink mystery-meat chems into your bloodstream and banish your nuts to the Shadow Realm just for infinitesimal enhancement. All this autistic retard talk of "cycles" and "dosage" when you could choose to not be a faggot and just hoist weight after eating some protein. You talk like a junkie and look like a garloid nigga. Get real.

>>77344955
>Cool so no source then
I'm not the original poster but here is ONE 15 week study that backs him up: https://muscleevo.net/norwegian-frequency-project/

>>77345078
You don't even have to eat right. Just eat enough. Protein is massively over emphasised. You can eat 40g protein and the rest of your calories as processed refined sugar per day at 200lbs and you'll still grow as long as you're in a surplus.

The 1g/lb mythos gets you a 1-3% improvement.

Genetics are big, but doing things right is also big. Just lifting, with no programs and no diet, will get you to look like you lift and be stronger than the average bozo but it is a huge step down from taking training seriously.

>>77345444
>has yet to reach the pages of a peer-reviewed journal.
Sorry didn't read. Maybe you should next time instead of just pasting links after only seeing the headline.

>>77345444
>Sample size less than 20 people
>they were all already power lifters
>zero controls
>not peer reviewed
Yeah nah

>>77344918
>Whites own every world record for weightlifting
Completely false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting
Only two whites have world records - both Americans. Every other world record (including historic) is held by Asians or Slavs.

Wrong, it's mostly diet

>>77345512
Diet is a bigger part than people realize mostly because it's very hard to get right so most just try to adhere to what they're supposed to do but always think lesser of it because it doesn't work really.
Hormones are the #1 factor obviously as we've seen countless times with bodybuilders more test = more gains and there's no getting around it.
Genetics is somewhere in between as we've seen people like zyzz who went from the skinniest nerd looking mofo to a fairly jacked looking dude. If genetics were all that mattered then this wouldn't be possible. Yet you're never going to be truly massive if that's your goal without having a huge skeleton

>>77345511
That's because Americans who would otherwise be elite oly lifters go into pro sports instead like football. This is the same dumb argument as soccer retards who think america is bad at sports cause soccer. If Americans gave a fuck about soccer they'd dominate nonstop

>>77344571
>and I've seen people do everything correctly, who never escape skinnyfat mode.
Yup, that's me

>>77344571
>I've seen people who do everything wrong, but end up looking like jacked and ripped fitness models
they werent doing anything wrong
>I've seen people do everything correctly, who never escape skinnyfat mode.
they werent doing anything right
People figured out how to grow muscle 50 years ago - you lift heavy fucking weights and eat right.
Nobody wants to do that because its hard so now there's a million different made-up gimmicks and every one thinks their gimmick is the right and everything thing else wrong.

>>77344576
>guys look like jacked & ripped fitness models, who come into the gym, do a random selection of a few easy exercise, not using much weight, barely doing hard any sets, spending 10-15 minutes in the gym,
you never saw this happen and you're just making up shit to sound cool and smart.

>>77345587
I've been doing everything right years and I'm still under 20 FFMI. Yes I've put on muscle, but it's *extremely* slow and my starting place was extremely little. I just have skinny genetics (small wrists, ankles, calves, forearms; much better at pulling than pushing).

>not training hard enough!
I do every set to failure.
>not enough volume!
8-12 sets per muscle per week.
>not enough protein!
At least 0.9g per lbs per day
>Not in a calorie surplus!
I've done many bulks; i can put on weight easily but most of it is fat. On my last bulk I was only in a 250cal surplus and still most of it was fat.

>>77345584
let me guess - you're trying to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time? i.e. muh le epic recomp

>>77345596
do your fives and eat more protein, fagtron

>>77345596
have you ever done a cut?
You can go from skinnyfat to skelly pretty easily and then you can actually see your muscle gains.

>>77345598
Nope. As you can see I said I do bulks.
>>77345601
Actually my progress was even slower when I was doing big-5 programs
>>77345604
I'm doing one now, it's going well, but at best I'll look skinny-fit by the end of it, like Sean O'Malley tier

>>77345608
You''re probably progressing just fine but just have unrealistically high expectations of what you can get out of natty lifting.
Also are you tall? I takes a year of roiding just to escape dyelism at 6'2"

Become a trtranny

>>77345624
I'm only 5'11" but I exhibit a lot of the traits of "tall lifter", like trouble hitting quads in squats, much better at pulling and hinging than pushing. I'd probably be 6' if I fixed my posture.

I honestly think I wasted a lot of time focusing on the big 5 lifts. They weren't developing my limbs at all; Lyle McDonald has a video about it. And also it was a "powerbuilding" routine so it was lowish volume. For the past 2 or so years I've been more "bodybuilding" type routines with machines and isolations and stuff and it's been better. But it's still slow; that's why I say genetics is still a pretty important factor.

I'm not blackpilled or anything; it's not like I can just give up because then I'd look *even worse*, but it's a sobering realisation.

>>77345596
Post them lift weights when you were doing big 5

>>77345643
you lift dyel weights so you look like a dyel
post lifts dyel

>>77345082
Pfffffthahahahaha

>>77345444
Bodied xim

File: 1781789750922309.gif (1.33 MB, 165x294)

1.33 MB GIF

>I can't predict what people's fitness outcomes will be.
>I keep seeing things I think are correct turn out wrong, and things I think are wrong turn out right.
That just means you don't know shit about fitness nigga. Sorry you thought you were an expert prematurely, happens to the best of us tho

>>77346052
Hows the sand? Given your head is perpetually stuck there

>>77346054
How's the inside of your colon smell? Same reason.

Don't explain to people that literally nothing you thought you knew about training matters and then expect to get talked to like a guru.

File: 1754068661817.jpg (707 KB, 3566x2048)

707 KB JPG

I am not op but feels this applies to me
Good numbers, left is 2022 right is this year.
Nearly 4 years, decent number, great diet, consistency.. to still look dyel after this long :/

>>77345580
>Makes claim
>Claim is proved false
>Okay, but that's only because...
In any case, most football players are not white.

>>77346226
Don't be so hard on yourself. You look noticeably better.