I'm 40 and started lifting and eating better, got from obesity to a 29bmi and I intend to keep improvingthe issue I have is my LDL cholesterol went from 144m/l to 169 (tryglicerids and glucose went down and other numbers look good), so everything improved but cholesterol got worseanyone have experience dealing with this? how dangerous can it be? any supplements or advice?thanks
Citrus bergamot the supplement 1200mg a day or if you need something stronger the medicine Ezetemibe at 5mg a daySearch studies for both. They will drop your ldl a ton
>>77386097what does your diet look like? log it for a few weeks, and see how much unhealthy fats you're consuming - saturated fats, trans fats.you should see that number go down by cutting those down. you can also make substitutions with healthier fats (switch from butter to olive/fish oil, switch from red meat to leaner cuts, etc.).
>>77386097Define "eating better"
>>77386124I'll take a look at that bergamot supplement, looks like it could go around 10% less, or so some studies say, I am working on increasing fiber consumption too>>77386135I home cook almost every meal and started logging my meals and increasing fiber, also supplementing psyllum when I don't get to 30g of fiber a day, I definitely need to keep going down on my fat level, I want to run but I am still a bit heavy>>77386142I eat mostly protein with salads, removed most of my red meat and changed it to chicken and fish, only use olive oil (no sunflower oil) for fats and reduced my heavy alcohol consumption to two servings (1-2 times p week), I went down about 8-10 kg since I started, all the numbers improved except cholesterol which went up, I want to try a more "natural" approach before estatines or whatever medicine is available
Black seed oil and black garlic extract, also called aged garlic extract. They were found in studies to have significant benefits for reducing cholesterol and preventing lipid oxidation as well as plaque buildup respectively. You're not on blood thinners are you?
>>77386097Ezetimibe (Zetia). Only (oral) cholesterol med that doesn't affect muscles. If your family has a history of cholesterol issues+heart attacks and your issue couldn't be solved through diet and ezetimibe, Repatha. You're 40 and up so you're a perfect candidate.
>>77386215>Black seed oil and black garlic extractI'll look into black seed oil, never heard of it, I've used black garlic before for cooking and I liked it, I don't take any medication, only supplements like magnesium and vitamins>>77386223I'll add those to the list I will ask a doc about in a couple of weeks, my old man had a heart attack about my age but he had a huge belly and was a chainsmoker, he quit smoking and lost weight and never had a problem again with his heart, he also jogs 8km almost daily, sadly he has diabetes but my glucose didn't look bad this timethanks everyone for the replies
Get on a statin, ezetemibe, or a PCSK9 inhibitor. Statins are fine btw. Every time they are tested against placebo, side effects are equal to placebo (meaning people are making them up).>>77386223Statins don't affect muscle, as established by the STOMP trial that placed 420 participants on atorvastatin or placebo then assessed them on strength and aerobic activity after 6 months. There was no difference. See the attached graph.
since people are mentioning supps, i'll throw nattokinase out there too, has been show to shrink arterial plaque significantly when properly dosed.
>>77386240>STOMP trialLove when doctors and professionals have a sense of humor. I just remember that CK increases a lot w/certain statins and muscle soreness can increase. Also Rhabdo. But good to know. Anybody know about Pitavastatin? Heard that one doesn't cross blood brain barrier and doesn't play fuckfuck games with your insulin sensitivity.>t. on TRT and every man on my dad's side has had hypercholestimia AND heart attacks at 50 despite being on Statin's and not eating much red meat or whole eggs (not that those matter anyway has they increase HDL).
>>77386097Your ldl may look worse while losing weight because youre burning body fat for sustenance while cutting. If your diet is good I wouldn't worry too much. Keep it up
>>77386251Progressive increases in CK with statins don't seem to occur (https://doi.org/10.36011/cpp.2021.3.e15) and CK levels only predict muscle cell leakage into blood, which requires high levels to be clinically significant. They are not a measure of muscle damage.No statin can cross the blood-brain barrier. Blood cholesterol can't either (the brain produces its own cholesterol). Hell, in terms of brain health, they casually reduce vascular dementia.Also, if they weren't particularly obese, you should get genetic testing and see if you can get into a clinical trial by Verve for their PCSK9 gene editing therapy.
>>77386246Please do not take blood thinners for a purpose they lack clinical evidence for + may not even work orally.
>>77386274https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9441630/
>>77386097Nigger quit being retarded and listen to real doctorshttps://youtu.be/eZ-x5PRkSxI
>>77386279There are plenty of (((doctors))) out there, most of which aren't cardiologists, and neither is he.
>>77386278Thanks for this info. Was using too low of dosage of nattokinase >>77386279Ketotard spotted >Actually this proven bad health biomarkers is a good thing! Kek what an idiot
>>77386304Not a ketotard by any fucking means. He disproves the retarded kike theory you're going by
>>77386311>because someone who has a doctorate in another field says so.Its no wonder retards are fooled thoses days studies are full of slop, doctorates in any field speak outside their area of expertise, youre not even at fault for being retarded, just mislead
>>77386097Yes. Mediterranean diet with >30g total fiber and >10g soluble fiber. Saturated fat less than 12-14g. 200cal deficit
>>77386318Dr Anthony Jay is literally famous for his book Estrogeneration and from working with ifbb pros on the olympian stage lmao. If you don't know who he is you're clearly a dyel who needs to get the fuck out of here.
>>77386329>he is not a cardiologistStop projecting moshe, go back to xitter
>>77386320yeah, that's kind of the approach I am going, with a bigger deficit since I'm still overweight and want to run without pain
>>77386097LDL is not the root cause for cholesterol deposits in arteries, it is high blood pressure and oxidative stressThere is no "bad cholesterol". LDL is only used to fix damaged cells and create hormones. Better question is why you have oxidative stress and high blood pressure.
>>77386097>>77386345LDL increases with significant weight loss. It is a good indication that weight loss is fat loss.
>>77386350>pinpointActively losing weight is correlated with elevated LDL, which is temporary and not a concern. /thread
>>77386278The single study that has good results. Its not a randomized control study. The RCTs for NK aren't super good.Kim et al. (2008) - 2,000 FU/day, unimpressive results compared to antihypertensive medicationYang et al. (2009) - 2,000 FU/day, shows no results for lipids until combined with red yeast rice (which is lovastatin. It took a statin to produce results).Jensen et al. (2016) - 2,000 FU/day. Meager results, marginal significance. Authors clearly wanted to p-hack.Ren et al. (2017) - 6,000 FU/day. Misdescribed and meager resultsHodis et al. (2021) - 3,000 FU/day, 3 years. No result for its CVD prevention target.Liu et al. (2023) - Gave lovastatin again.Nara et al. (2023) - 2,000 FU/day. Marginal result with 9 participants.Zhang et al. (2026) - 8,000 FU/day. Again, nothingburger result.Tbf, these are very low dosages, but even at 8,000 FU/day, no result.
>>77386338He did his PhD on cholesterol you fucking dimwit
>>77386339>run without painWeight/height? You may be able to start running, albeit slowly, now. If you're not grossly obese you can likely just start running at a slow pace an build up your aerobic base, despite what baseless retards will undoubtedly post here following me. If you can't "run" even a run-walk-run program, start by speed walking or hiking, especially hills.
>>77386240>STOMP trial that placed 420 participants on atorvastatin or placebo then assessed them on strength and aerobic activity after 6 months. There was no difference.They weren't training during that time, so it's worthless. Will wait for a better study before making a decision of using it.
>>77386345There it is. Pack it up boys
>>77386390>Will wait for a better study before making a decision of using it.It already exists and shows statins significantly reduce adaptations to exercise. >Simvastatin Impairs Exercise Training Adaptationshttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109713014034
>>77386407This study can’t be trusted. For one, there was no placebo, so the study is vulnerable to placebo/nocebo effects. For two, several reported p-values are impossible or improbable. For example, the interaction by group is reported differently across Figure 1A and 1B, and the p-value reported for the group difference (p < 0.005) is impossible. The actual p-value is marginally significant, at p = 0.01-0.02. For three, several outcomes require implausibly large pre/post correlations. For example, to hit reported p-values for weight change within the exercise group or between groups, to hit them for fat mass and lean body mass changes within the exercise or exercise plus statin groups, and for the latter outcome, between groups, as well as for body fat percentage within the exerciser group, the correlations would have to be 0.991, 0.985, 0.944, 0.993, 0.987, and 0.968. This is all highly implausible, and it’s matched by the need for a >0.95 VO2 peak correlation over time if Figure 1A is to be believed. None of this is particularly believable.
>>77386369>Zhang et al. (2026)this? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41325794/i'm not familiar enough with intracranial stenosis to understand what's going on, but the endpoint of this study was a cognitive assessment, that feels very secondary to plaque reduction>Ren et al. (2017)36.6% cartoid plaque reduction compared to 11.5% in the statin group after 6 months isn't what i'd call meager>everything else2000-3000 IU/day underdosed studies. useful only for allowing meta-analyses like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39076715/ to conclude that the efficacy of nattokinase is dose-dependent (surprise surprise)
>>77386414Other studies on statins' effects on training:Coen et al. (2009) found that training benefits can still occur for people undergoing rosuvastatin treatment, but this had no non-statin-using control group. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.metabol.2009.03.006Slade et al. (2021) VO2 peak response to exercise was -1.9 points for non-statin users in the control group vs. -0.8 for control group statin users and +1.7 for non-statin users in the exercise group vs. +2.7 for exercise group statin users. With corresponding exercise effects of 3.6 vs. 3.5, the difference is essentially zero and statins do not appear as a moderator. In fact, with a correlation over time of r = 0, the interaction p-value would be 0.98, and with r = 0.9, it would be 0.96. It also looked at some irrelevant stuff like kPCr and muscle pH. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ahjo.2021.100028Allard et al. (2021) found no differences in strength improvements between supposedly symptomatic, asymptomatic, and non-statin-using subjects who completed a twelve-week physical training course. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jacc.2021.08.075This is really it in terms of the high quality literature.
>>77386097In terms of meds, start with 1mg pitavastatin as that is the statin with the least amount of side effects. On average, you should expect to go from 169 to 113. Next, add 2.5-10mg ezetimibe on top of that which should hopefully drop your LDL-C below 100. Those are the cheapest options as both meds are generic already. Since you are overweight, might want to consider adding tirzepatide/retatrutide as those reduce LDL-C by 5-20% on top of the other meds.Next, in terms of nutrition, replace most oils you use with olive oil and butter with magherine. Nuts and lean meat are good, red meat is bad (at least if you eat it more than once or twice a week). Increase fiber intake.Imo with all of those interventions you can get your LDL-C to around 60-80.
>>77386442>36.6% cartoid plaque reduction compared to 11.5% in the statin group after 6 months isn't what i'd call meagerBoth groups showed within-group reductions in plaque size and IMT, but the abstract highlighted a larger drop with NK (~36.6% plaque reduction vs. ~11.5% with statin) as "significantly profound." Statins produced significantly greater reductions in total cholesterol, LDL-C, and triglycerides (p<0.05); NK raised HDL-C while statins did not. Between-group differences in plaque area and IMT were not significant (p=0.82 and 0.86)https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327078942_A_clinical_study_on_the_effect_of_nattokinase_on_carotid_artery_atherosclerosis_and_hyperlipidaemia>2000-3000 IU/day underdosed studies. useful only for allowing meta-analyses like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39076715/ to conclude that the efficacy of nattokinase is dose-dependent (surprise surprise)If everything is underdosed, then that means there is no good clinical evidence to support you buying this stuff and taking it. There's just one retrospective study that could justify further research. Additionally, they did not conclude that the efficacy of nattokinase is dose-dependent, but rather that "For future researches, therefore, it is an important issue to determine if the lipid-lowering efficacy of nattokinase is dose-dependent." They left that question up to future researchers.
>>77386097>people are still pretending cholesterol is badLol. Lmao, even.
>>77386526You seem like you know your stuff. Any supplement that isn't berberine or fiber that can realistically have an impact on LDL-C levels even on top of a statin?
>>77386529It is bad and the recent (((Norwitz))) study proved it despite the keto authors trying to hide the fact, leading to the study being retracted.
>>77386535It's a good study and a good documentary.People with sky high LDL had plaque regression.Enjoy your pharmaceuticals goy.
>>77386540No, pretty much all the participants had diabetes-tier plaque PROGRESSION. (((Norwitz))) didn't even mention that fact and instead used statistical tricks by comparing subgroups of super high and ultra high LDL-C people where plaque progression wasn't statistically significant between them (but was still rapid overall).
>>77386532Phytosterols lower LDL but they seemingly don't reduce MACE. Outside of fiber and berberine, idk of any supplement with good RCTs that show a reduction in LDL. There is red yeast rice but that is literally a statin.
>>77386526>Both groups showed within-group reductions in plaque size and IMT, but the abstract highlighted a larger drop with NK (~36.6% plaque reduction vs. ~11.5% with statin) as "significantly profound."so it did exactly what i said it could do, i.e., shrink arterial plaque?>If everything is underdosed, then that means there is no good clinical evidence to support you buying this stuff and taking it.we (you and i) have already gone over multiple studies showing that not everything is underdosed and when the dosage is upped like i suggested, there are clinically significant results. that meta-analysis didn't even include the n=1062 study i linked earlier that showed 10800 IU/day was (very) effective and 3600 IU/day was not. use your head, you're beginning to piss me off
>>77386567Yeah thought so. Thanks.
>>77386557No they didn't. That's why the study was retracted. Someone who was unblinded faked the results.When people submitted their own scans blinded they showed plaque regression.Anyway you're not interested in the truth. You're interested in getting everyone to eat plant-based goyslop and take pharmaceuticals.Enjoy your fragile bones leftoid.
>>77386612>No they didn't.They did.>That's why the study was retracted.It got retracted because ketards got caught lying about their own results.>When people submitted their own scans blinded they showed plaque regression.Not in the official paper. There was huge plaque progression despite inflammation markers being low.>You're interested in getting everyone to eat plant-based goyslop and take pharmaceuticals.Even Trump is on a statin and he's the god of you conspiracy retards.>Enjoy your fragile bones leftoid.´Just supplement with vitamin D3 and K2 retard. Not that statins have an impact on bone density to begin with.
Notice how the statin shills just outright lie. They will say ANYTHING to get goys to take pharmaceuticals.Taking statins is like getting experimental mRNA injections. The only point of doing it is to show you're a good goy who does what you are told.>Evidence of plaque regression in the KETO-CTA studyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=546N08qzQgs
>>77386623Remember anon, your god Trump is on rosuvastatin, ezetimibe, finasteride and is triple-vaxxed.>Evidence of plaque regression in the KETO-CTA studyNorwitz kept lying even after his study got retracted lmao. Americans and especially jews are such frauds.
>actually the people trying to save you from big pharma are the ones lying>statins are safe and effective just like mRNA injections
>>77386642Oh I remember the Great Reset happening where all the goycattle died and the jews finally realized their ambitious plan of repopulating the world with retarded right wing conspiracy theorists who hate them. Shart of the MIGA.
Poor little big pharma is being persecuted by skeptics. ;_;They just want us to get our injections and take our pills because they love us so much.
>>77386650Okay, let's say that everyone is hostile against everyone else and no one ever gives good advice. Then obviously I must be a pharma shill who makes millions from shilling cheap generic drugs. But what about you? Why would you call me out and promote the keto/carnivore diet? What is your incentive?
>>77386529Looks like The Cholesterol Code (2026) is on Tubi for free. Enjoy learning about the cholesterol scam Anons.https://tubitv.com/movies/100059768/the-cholesterol-code
>>77386656The real cholesterol scam is retards being contrarian for no reason and ACKing themselves.>noooo the fat deposits in my blood walls can't come from the fat balls in my blood that doesn't make sense this is all just some jewish conspiracy
>>77386345A lot of the "corrected" thought on LDLs being the problem (they are sort of, it's still generally not great to be saturated with very high VL/ LDLs) has been revised again, with supposedly some forms actual having somewhat of a protective effect.The main cause is pretty much any form of inflammatory process providing a "nucleation site"/flat out causing direct damage to the lumen. High blood sugar can be another cause, supposedly shredding the arterial walls, again high BP makes this worse
>>77386662>I eat plant-based and have low-cholesterol so I'm immune to heart-ACK
>>77386667Where does it say he had low cholesterol? You can be eating as healthy as you want but if you have the genetics for it you can still have high cholesterol in spite of it. Also, the cholesterol targets have been lowered from 100ng/dL to 40-70mg/dL depending on your risk factors. That is the point where you no longer develop plaque and even start to regress it.
>>77386665No, LDL-C is directly causal of heart disease. It doesn't protect anything and only causes damage.Inflammation is a huge meme that got directly debunked by the LMHR study despite (((Norwitz)))'s attempts to hide his results (which is what got his study retracted). PCSK9 inhibitors don't lower inflammation and still cause plaque regression.
Oh no low-cholesterol bros we are going to die from heart attacks and strokes. Why are we eating disgusting plant-based slop and taking pharmaceuticals?>Low cholesterol was related to high mortality even after excluding deaths due to liver disease from the analysis. High cholesterol was not a risk factor for mortality.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3899519/
>>77386097Lack of fiber can really fuck your cholesterol, make sure you're getting 38g. It really might be that simple. A good lifting diet can be very low in fiber, as low as 1/3rd the recommended amount and that can fuck you up as you get older. Good luck buddy.
>>77386684Observational trials suffer from cofounding factors like cancer, liver disease which all cause low cholesterol. Once you stratify for that, there is a 1-to-1 relationship between LDL cholesterol and death rates. You need to understand the pyramide of evidence and the limitations of each type of clinical trial.
>>77386688thanks, I think I kinda had that a bit because fiber made me feel bloated a bit, but I am going full fiber now with some legumes and psyllum, I will also try to loose weight and see how that goes, maybe the fat burning is the culprit since everything else went better (sugar and triglycerids, hepatic, etc)
>>77386671>Also, the cholesterol targets have been lowered from 100ng/dL to 40-70mg/dLJfc that's unreachable even for a normal person that eats a fiber rich diet and exercises.
>>7738670470 isn't unreachable, 40 is. A single statin is usually enough to get people from levels above 100 to the safe range.
>>77386704Cholesterol targets will lower until everyone is on pharmaceuticals.Because they love us very much. Big pharma is basically a charity.
>>77386715>Cholesterol targets will lower until everyone is on pharmaceuticals.No, the targets are lowered because studies show that at those levels you don't get any more plaque progression.>Because they love us very much. Big pharma is basically a charity.Big Pharma doesn't make money with generic drugs.
>>77386097>I'm 40
>the new science shows you need your cholesterol so low that you’ll have to take our cutting edge patented drugs>trust usThank you big pharma you’re our best friend
>>77386849People with an LDL-C of 130 and below can reach targets with just a statin and ezetimibe (both generic). Above that just order bempedoic acid from India or something.
>>77386853Don’t forget a plant based diet. Maybe with bugs for healthy protein.
>>77386097Both my parents have it so mines hereditary and doctor put me on 20mg statin and it went down over half so I'm staying on them. Just go on the pills theres 0 side effects and cheap
>>77386855You may joke about eating ze bugs but I would unironically be down for some quality insect protein powder.
>>77386097When I was a kid all those commercials were like special k will lower your cholesterolSo do that. Also if you have a kid have them there asking you why you're eating special k for the complete experience.
>>77386097take vitamin k2 supplements and add more fiber
>>77386097Just don't eat sugar and seed oil and you won't get heart disease
Why is the brownoid crashing out ITT
>>77386097>Cholesterol le badLmao, lol even.
>>77387290brownoids only have two states
>>77386124That's retarded, take a low dose statin, 10 times cheaper and more studied>>77386184>I eat mostly protein with salads, removed most of my red meat and changed it to chicken and fish, only use olive oil (no sunflower oil)You fell for the chicken meme. Also sunflower oil is better for blood lipids, search a real study or at least ask AI>>77386642Unironically yes, and it's been 6 years, you should move on from your vaccine phobia>>77386667That guy had a stroke in his early 20s, his genetics were shit, he would've died in his 30s if he kept eating the american goy dietAlso, if you're a cholesterol denier you're probably a jeet who eats ghee every day and can't cope with the fact it's turning his blood into sludge
>>77387505this, ldl alone doesn't tell shit. we need triglycerides and hdl as well
>You fell for the chicken meme. Also sunflower oil is better for blood lipids, search a real study or at least ask AIisrael's strongest soldier
>>77387542Yes timmy, I can read and don't rely on feelings of what's NATOOOOOORAL and what's notYou're the goy here
>>77387543holy shit, didnt't see that you were advocating for statins lol, lmao even. no wonder you are advocating for them, shlomo
Just keep your saturated fat levels low, 10-14 grams daily. Don’t believe the guidelines that state 20 to 30 grams are safe for men on a 2000 calorie diet. That’s way too high
>>77387598>Just keep your saturated fat levels low, 10-14 grams dailyI get around 120g daily, my trig to hdl ratio is 1.06 whilst eating 4400 calories daily. dont listen to these morons, if it works for your body it works. not everyone can digest that much saturated fat though so do be careful
>>77386279Lol where is his MD? Oh yeah, he doesn’t have one. It’s terrifying how many grifters fake medical credentials, and how many retards eat it up.
>>77387614You should cut on that saturated fat, your brain arteries seem to be narrowed
>>77387681cope harder pufag. if your shitty farmer genetics cant handle saturated fats its your problem
>>77386720>the targets are lowered because studies show that at those levels you don't get any more plaque progression.Your testosterone will probably plummet if you consume low-fat diet and take statins to reduce cholesterol to the levels where to atherosclerosis progression occurs. Maybe it's fine if you take steroids of aromatase inhibitor like exemestane. >>77386445Nice finds. I wonder if there's top-level athletes taking statins.
>>77387731>if you consume low-fat diet and take statins to reduce cholesterol to the levels where to atherosclerosis progression occurs. It's called cholesterol depletion. >Pitavastatin-induced cholesterol deficiency elevates serum biomarkers associated with statin-related adverse effects in ratshttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11893090/
I'm overweight but I have too low cholesterol.
>>77387598Saturated fat is good for you.
>>77387731>Your testosterone will probably plummet if you consume low-fat diet and take statins to reduce cholesterol to the levels where to atherosclerosis progression occurs. Maybe it's fine if you take steroids of aromatase inhibitor like exemestane.Simvastatin was the only statin that actually had a statistically significant effect on testosterone levels. Atorvastatin didn't, for example, even at higher doses. I'm not saying don't eat fat, I'm saying don't eat too much and maybe take a statin.
>>77387749>in ratsRats are not good models for humans because they naturally never develop ASCVD.>>77387875Satruated fat is bad for you and anyone saying otherwise is either a moron or a sadistic lowlife.
>>77387905>Satruated fat is bad for you and anyone saying otherwise is either a moron or a sadistic lowlife.
>>77387930You can post as many soijacks as you want but that still won't change the facts.
>saturated fat bad!lol
>>77387949Eat dem eggs like a real man! MIGA!
>>77387905>they naturally never develop ASCVD.Ability of humans to develop ASCVD isn't indicative of their inability to be cholesterol depleted.
>eat eggs like a real manYes.
>>77387989If Dr Greger ate egss he'd look like left!
>>77387989You can't outdiet bad genes.
>>77387969No one is getting cholesterol-depleted. We have people with levels naturally at 1/10 the average LDL-C living perfectly normal lives.
>>77388218>We have people with levels naturally at 1/10 the average LDL-C living perfectly normal lives.Demonstrate.
>>77388270>Individuals with hypobetalipoproteinemia and PCSK9 mutation have inherited natural protection from CAD. It is because of low LDL and consequently lower incidence of atherosclerosis and associated events. Patients with a total deficiency of PCSK9 have been reported to have LDL-C levels in the range of 15mg/dl without having any adverse effects from these extremely low LDL levelshttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5937425/Obviously you just keep your LDL cholesterol at levels of 200 and above please but everyone else who is not a menace to the world please keep your levels low.
>>77388274What about HDL?
>>77388284While HDL is more like a marker of good health but apparently doesn't do much otherwise, I'd say keeping levels above 40 for a male is good.
>>77388287But everything that raises HDL (like eating food consisting of fat) also raises LDL.
>>77388293Eating food with mostly unsaturated fat does increase HDL while only marginally affecting LDL in most cases.
>>77388299Source please.
>>77388307>Replacement of saturated fat with either monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fat led to significant decreases in total and LDL cholesterol (P<.001), and the pooled effect sizes were comparable for either type of unsaturate (effect sizes ranged from −0.64 to −0.68, ie, roughly a decrease of 0.65 mmol/L [25 mg/dL] relative to the high-saturated fat diets). Neither type of unsaturated fat significantly changed HDL cholesterol or triglyceride levels relative to the high-saturated fat diets.https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.atv.15.11.1917
>>77388322Thanks. So i guess eggs are a good source of fats after all, they're 2/3 unsaturated.
>>77388328Eggs are only bad if you're a cholesterol hyperabsorber. Otherwise they are healthy enough.
>>77388332How bad are cellular ATP production decrease from effective doses of statins? Have you researched it?
>>77388336Rule of thumb from reading various research on that topic:-if you don't feel muscle weakness/pain, your body is able to cope with it just fine-if you have muscle weakness/pain, switch to a lower dose and/or to pitavastatin or another treatment altogetherOther than that, impact on exercise etc. matches placebo in strong rcts.
>>77386097Read this paper and you will be scared off from using statins for life...>Effects of statins on mitochondrial pathwayshttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8061391/
>>77388355Have you seen this new research on nebivolol? It has been shown to increase elastin content (which significantly decreases with age) in cardiovascular system at relevant doses - previously only minoxidil has been shown to do it. Seems like a great addition to statins for prevention of cardiovascular aging. >Minoxidil and nebivolol restore aortic elastic fiber homeostasis in diabetic mice via potassium channel activationhttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12488662/
>>77386097Bempedoic acid + ezetimibe, or pitavastatin? Which is better?
>>77388371Wow thanks I didn't see that. I'm just starting telmisartan for kidney protection so nebivolol might just be something I could start in addition to that. Def keeping it on my watch list.>>77388461Pitavastatin 1mg + ezetimibe 2.5-10mg + bempedoic acid full dose
My HDL is around 90 but some say too much can be bad as well. Anyone hear anything about too much HDL?
>>77386097doesnt matter thats a jewish scam
So LDL is body inflation?
>>77386097what do i do if im late 20s and my LDL is 170 and total cholesterol is 250? my hdl and trig are completely normal and my moms side has a history of heart attacks. what do? i started drinking a fiber shake of like 30g a day, with a good amount of soluble fiber that includes psyllium husk.
Just take a low dose statin and be done with it. I have familial hypercholesterolemia, am over 40 and take the lowest dose of lipitor to manage it. It's basically free and there are zero side effects. I teach BJJ and am at zone 2 heart rate for like 10 hours a week and eat fairly well and my LDL was over 200 before. It's like 110 now with no other changes and my doctor is ok with that. Taking citrus bergamot or red yeast rice and dying at 50 is gay
>>77386345>>77386097Except the amount of LDL and LDL/HDL ratio what is importat is amount of free radicals, triglycerides and LDL size
>>77388786>Wow thanks I didn't see thatGlad to help you! You're probably the guy that was arguing with me about impact of statins on muscular function. After seeing more evidence in this thread and browsing meso rx threads on it, i decided it's at least worth to try and started 5mg rosuvastatin EOD.
>>77386184>I cut out red meat and fat>My cholesterol went upGet what you deserved award.We eat more skinless boneless lean chicken than ever and have more heart problems than ever before.
>>77386696OK now that we've removed the things that make you die while having low cholesterol let's remove the things that make you die from high cholesterol too.>You can't do thatI can, you removed the low ones to be "fair" or whatever.Not science.
>>77387614>>77387681The saturated fat is fine but you're gonna die early from eating double what a man's supposed to eat>There are people that hear "I eat 4400 calories a day" and disagree with the saturated fat amountsLMAO fuck off seriously, metabolic stress is way more dangerous than him eating saturated fat.Double the calories = die like 20 years early.
>>77388112People with bad genes eat shoots and leaves.People with good genes (the elite) eat fresh raw seafish and baby blood.It is what it is.
>>77389417I also cut saturated fat out and my ldl went down. What now?
>>77389423t. has shitty metabolismcope harder faggot. Im slowbulking with 4000 calories, fucking prisoners ate 3100 calories last century. your body is so fucked that you gain a shitton of fat if you eat more than 2500 calories
>>77389471>heh, something something?>it's them not me.
>>77389476you cunts are so afraid of dying that you don't get to live. cope harder faggot, deep down you know the truth
>>77389482>Truly living is eating like a pig
>>77389485>cant articulate eating 4000 calories cleanlyngmi. if you are active 4000 might even be maintenance retard.
I'm 30 years old with a family history of heart problems. I used to have relatively high LDL and ApoB, but managed to bring it down by simply:> Eating less:Butter, unfiltered coffee, fat meat> Eating more:Green tea, barley flakes and oat bran (for soluble fiber), nuts, and even some onions milk; only eat lean meats like turkey breast; more veggies and greens and shitBasically pic related.Now my levels are pretty good. Remember to also test for Lp(a), to rule out a genetic propensity for high cholesterol. If you do so, then statins might be the best path for you. Godspeed anon.
>>77389495How much did your Ldl drop? Do you remember your lp(a)?
>>77389495also this, genetics matter a lot. some people can't metabolize saturated fats that well. theres no one size fits all approach to diet
>>77389503Lp(a): 0,11 g/l> Before introducing changes in the diet:LDL: 124 mg/dlApoB: 0,95 g/l> After:LDL: 85 mg/dLApoB: 0,50 g/l
>>77388992Statins now
>>77389422People who have a BMI of 27 live the longest. Therefore, being fat is good and being athletic is bad. After all, removing old frail grandmas who weigh like 30kg and have a bmi of 18 would be bad science. MIGA!
>>77386097How bad is unfiltered coffee for atherosclerosis really?
>>77389617Negligible.
>>77389600>Hold on let me just make some strawman nownah.Junk science where you "account for the variables" or whatever but the "variables" are only on one side of the scale and you don't even have all of them. Every single "study">We have accounted for all variables>Two years later>There is a new variable, we have now accounted for it>the science has become more better
>>77386097Statins deplete vitamin K. This causes plaque calcification following statin use.
>>77389624It's not a strawman. Observational trials say that overweight people are the healtiest. Since you don't believe in cofounding factors that implies you should gain weight and become overweight.>the science has become more betterThe best kinds of studies are the ones where participants are given either placebo pills or actual medication then are followed for years. And guess what, those kinds of studies prove that lowering LDL-C (not even necessarily CRP) via medication lowers risk of ASCVD as well as trending towards a lower all-cause mortality.This is called the pyramide of evidence where observational trials (such as the ones which carnitards like to cite) are near the bottom while RCTs are near the top.
>>77389652Even assuming statins significantly deplete vitamin K2, you can just supplement them. Most multivitamins already contain it because consumers are asking for it. Moreover, the connection between vitamin K2 and artery wall calcification is weak at best. And calcification isn't even a bad thing in the first thing because it's the body trying to prevent soft plaque from rupturing.
>>77389667>And calcification isn't even a bad thing in the first thing because it's the body trying to prevent soft plaque from rupturing.As far as i'm aware, calcified plaque cannot be dissolved under conditions of low LDL, unlike soft plaque that decreases over time - so running a statin alone will prevent you from achieving pristine vascular morphology. I wonder if combination of statins with vitamin K has been studies, and if it showed different results from statins alone on the structure of atherosclerosis.
>>77389675>I wonder if combination of statins with vitamin K has been studies, and if it showed different results from statins alone on the structure of atherosclerosis.I think it is a good idea to use both together (with K2 in a multivitamin). But even exercise by itself has shown to increase calcification, leading me to suspect that any intervention that supports cardiovascular health will inadvertedly lead to increased calcification.
>>77389689>But even exercise by itself has shown to increase calcificationIsn't it's only LISS type of exercise which is kind of retarded and for dyels anyway because endurance can be boosted more efficiently with HIIT?
>>77389663>The studies say that medicine for people who are sick workWOW!>Overweight people are the healthiestNow this is a gigantic retard strawman because you've never read the studies, what they say is that normal weight is healthier until you get old, where it's better to be mildly overweight because it staves off multiple diseases.But you've never read them you can only talk about DA SCIENCE or whatever and pretend that by "overweight" they mean something like morbidly obese, when they actually mean like 10 pounds extra (which from a biological standpoint makes complete sense as being healthy)
>>77386097This thread is a good read but the question is largely one of, "it depends".Does your family have a history of heart disease, strokes, or plaque deposits? Your BMI needs to be improved and cardio will also help this. What is your HDL? You'll need to see other specialists like a cardiologist to determine if you indeed have a problem. There are ea bunch of other tests you need to do in order to answer this. Glp1 agonists, while not first line cholesterol fixes, will also improve lipid profiles.
>>77389968>The studies say that medicine for people who are sick workThey work even in people who aren't sick yet but still have high LDL-C.>where it's better to be mildly overweight because it staves off multiple diseases.No, just look at observational trials. A bmi of 27 is perfect. Anyone who says otherwise also believes that shark attacks in the summer aren't caused by increased ice cream sales.
some individials notice DOUBLING of their ldl when they add even smalish amount of saturated fat to their weekly dietsaturated fat and trans fat mostly mostly impact ldl, and then overall fat content after that even vegetable oils>>77386097bmi 29 still too high it keeps also your ldl higher
>>77389166LDL/HDL ratio is directly down the line to liver damage accumulated over time and the enzymes responsible for their conversions. You are focusing on indicators instead of root cause.
>>77389166no it's very dangerous to start doing that ldl / hdl ratio thing, it's mostly ketotard invention and dangerous gameldl is most important if you want just a cheap blood work then just look at your hdl, dont focuse any ratios or particle size etc. just get your ldl down. drinking few beers daily and doing exercise should increase hdl trendemouslylp(a) genetic, not much we can do about it currently, some meds are tried but not yet anything like statins for ithdl is also very genetic, if it's always very low for you then it's typically risk factor, for those people with low hdl we also see statins are the most protective for some reasonincreasing hdl with meds or supplements havent proven to be very efficient to lower heart disease risk tho, it's mostly justa marker not very causative thing
>>77390361Some people's physiology may suit a plant and fish heavy diet. The idea that everyone's the same and same advice applies to all is stupid
>>77386097How much saturated fat do you eat
>>77387529>you should move on from your vaccine phobiaTwo questions:1. How many covid shots did you get?2. How many times did you have covid?
>>77390594since I got the result I am aiming below 10g per day, before that I was going for high protein>>77390361>>77390129yeah, still too high for sure I need to loose at least 10 more kgHDL is 46.8mg/dl. (should be more than 40)239 total. (should be below 200) ldl/hdl index is 3.61 (should be below 3.55)triglycerides are 124 mg/dl, seem ok, should be below 150
>>77386711lolhigh used to start in the hicgh 130s goy
>>77387989he'd look like shit if he stopped injectingsick of these grifters
>>77389424Naturally we have evolved from apex predators to super predators. The next step in evolution is raping everything and one you then eat and make ornaments out of.
>>77391354Well without the ornaments then I don't produce enough fear to harvest their soul and gain power when I fuck them.
>>77391354Excuse me do you fuck your chickens or is your dick too big for their ass?
>>77386279He's full of shit. High LDL doesn't equate to higher hormone production and the mortality chart he showed is decepively skewed. Many old people and the terminally diseased have low cholesterol from being unable to eat enough. This boosts the deaths for the low end when it's obviously not the reason they are dying.
>>77391344Back when smoking was considered healthy a LDL level of 130 was acceptable. Nowadays it isn't. The science becoming more strigulent isn't some grand conspiracy by Bill Gates.
>>77387875This is literally just a wealth/misery index chartEveryone in the top left drinks and smokes because they're poor vatnik goyslaves to wannabe dictator strongmen
>>77388293>what is intense cardio and resistance training
>>77389696>Isn't it's only LISS type of exercise which is kind of retarded and for dyels anyway because endurance can be boosted more efficiently with HIIT?bro, you have clearly never trained for any type of endurance sport in your life lmao80/20 rule>80% low intensity>20% high intensity
>>77391456It's just a ridiculous argument>implying circulating cholesterol in the form of lipoproteins is even more than 1% of the total cholesterol in your body>implying cholesterol is the bottleneck in hormone production>implying the gonads can't just produce the cholesterol locally de novo whenever it needs it for steroidogenesis
>>77386097>Statins: Heart disease drug speeds up ageing process, warns new researchhttps://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/608210/statins-age-you-faster-new-research-suggests-long-term-use-warning
>>77391511>bro, you have clearly never trained for any type of endurance sportI don't need to, my job demands extreme amounts of endurance involving manually moving heavy objects for hours under the sun, and when i want to get in shape after a break i always use kettlebell swings for it instead of marathon runs because it's far more effective.
>>77391655The Interventions Testing Program tested simvastatin at super higher doses in genetically diverse mice and the result was that it neither extended nor shortened lifespan which is to be expected since mice don't die of heart disease. Since simvastatin is like the worst statin in terms of side effects, that bodes well for statins in general.
>>77390644Dubs of truth>Zero COVID shots>Zero positive COVID tests
>>77391680MIGA!
>>77386414Could you please explain in simpler language?
>>77386097If you look up the wiki (or any medical) page of statins, you'll notice that they inhibit an enzyme that produces the most potent antioxidant of cells in your body called Coenzyme Q10
>>77386097I lost 27kg and still ended up with like 160 LDL at the end. My diet at that point was like 2 days a week salmon with salad, 2 days a week chicken with salad etc. Dinner most nights was a yoghurt or a couple fruit. I just don't think it can go very low for some of us, maybe being an ex-fat is important. Maybe when I have built muscle mass it could go down? In any case I am seriously thinking of starting statins because there's no point pondering why, it just needs to go down
>>77386097OP's image is looks like a perfect representation of a pure whole food vegan diet on the extreme left to your typical junk food american diet on the extreme right.On a clead diet, you dont even need to do any effort to clean your arteries. Just eat 100% whole food vegan for 1 month. Seriously, just 1 month man. Then go get your cholesterol checked. I dare you.
>>77392290CoQ10 is a meme. Supplementing it even shortens worm lifespan. Statins have shown zero lifespan effect in mice even at very high doses so clearly the "most potent antioxidant" isn't actually very important lol
Clean artery stack:Nattokinase: 10,000 FUs per dayL-Carnitine: 1g per dayAged Garlic Extract: 500mg - 1g per dayVitamin C: 1g per day minimum, 3-5g if you can tolerate itL-Lysine: 1000mg per day if you have high lp(a)Vitamin K2: 100-200mg per dayAlpha-Liopic Acid: 600-1800mg per dayPantethine: 600-900mg per dayProtip, add some oolong tea to your daily routine; it has one of the only compounds known to prevent oxidation of cholesterol.Also helpful:Turmeric/Curcumin (with ginger): reduces inflammationBlack Seed Oil: reduces inflammation
>>77392293Low dose rosuvastatin or pitavastatin combined with ezetimibe should sort you out and you should have zero side effects.Picrel is me on 5mg rosuvastatin. I had excellent lipids before but now I will never have to worry about atherosclerosis. Well worth the peace of mind.
>>77392658No citrus bergamot? It worked really well combined with berberine to reduce my apoB before I hopped on a statin.
>>77386097>>77386097Be careful taking statins because your brain is made almost entirely of cholesterol and statins stripping the cholesterol out of your blood inevitably shrinks the neurons, causing cognitive problems and memory issues, but they are apparently reversible if you stop the statin. Rousouvastatin has the lowest rate of brain damage and some people don't have any cognitive effects taking that one but YMMV
>>77392404supplementing small doses of drugs that humans can safely tolerate worsens the health of a lot of tiny animals. Like could you imagine what 10mg amphetamine would do to a hamster? its little body just can't shrug off insults like a larger mammal can
>>77392867Every single statin study has shown either benefit or neutral effect regarding dementia or neurodegeneration. Ezetimibe outright prevents dementia.
>>77392876https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/03/672990317/before-starting-a-statin-talk-it-over-with-your-doctorhttps://gidmk.medium.com/the-truth-about-statins-b4f5291a7603https://x.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1810444249701187706?lang=en
>>77392876
>>77392884>>77392889I'm not convinced by tweets, opinion pieces, and AI summaries. Show studies and mechanisms.
>>77392865If it worked so well why did you start taking a statin?
>>77392884>x.com/RobertKennedyJrare you le serius lmaaaaoooooo
>>77392889I'm sure these studies were definitely not funded by big pharma.
>>773929425mg rosuvastatin is 5mg rosuvastatin every single time, it's more effective, and it's free through my insurance. A good supplement isn't cheap and they are unregulated. Statin pleiotropic effects are also dope.
>>77392945the big pharma cope with regards to statins is retarded anyway. every single statin is a cheap generic now costing literal pennies per pill
>>77392944He's the top health official in the United States government, similar to Dr. Fauci but right winged
>>77392963he said that a worm ate part of his brain and then DIED IN THERE.i dont know if he should be the top health authority he might have... just maybe gotten appointed by Trump to that job and doesn't actually deserve it
I heard big pharma actually loses money on cholesterol lowering drugs. They just do it as a charity because they are good people.Take your statins Anons! Also eat plant-based.
People who think there is a profit motivation behind promoting cholesterol lowering drugs are crazy conspiracy theorists.Big pharma employees would prefer to be managers at Panda Express. They believe so strongly in cholesterol lowering because they are kind caring people who love us very much.
Eating Oreo cookies lowers cholesterol more than statins. Just eat Oreo cookies and you'll be immune to heart disease.Also never fast. Fasting raises cholesterol. You must eat Oreo cookies constantly to be safe.
>>77392994Nice try. We are talking specifically about statins, which are generic and cheap. This image clearly states "(all) cholesterol lowering drugs globally" and 22 billion for such a figure is still laughably low.>The global gifts, novelty, and souvenirs market is currently valued at roughly $118.7 billion.Fart toys make more money than cholesterol lowering drugs. What's your schizo take on that?
>40a lil late to be doing allat cuh
>>77393541It's a legacy product that has made them many, many billions of dollars. The current figure of $22 billion isn't chump change either. They aren't going to kill a cash cow for no reason. If anything they are using the statin dogma as a way to hype up their newest line of products: PSK9 inhibitors - which will (not surprisingly) be sold for a huge profit.
>>77386535>>77386557>>77386677(((Feldman))) is a kike too, don't leave him out of echo >>77386650Pharma industry really is smaller than the so-called wellness industry. The grifters selling supplements and online courses.
Why are the schizos having a total meltdown over statins ITT? You don't need them if your cholesterol is normal, easily achievable with a healthy diet low in saturated fat.
>>77386097>>77386184Just eat less saturated fat and cholesterol, actually track what you're eating and stop guessing or lying to yourself or others about what you actually eat on a regular basis.Start tracking now and avoid saturated fat and dietary cholesterol as much as possible, try eating more fiber.There is nothing else you can do except taking drugs.>>77386279Don't listen to this retard.>>77392293Track what you're eating and stop second guessing.>>77386696That and AUC of high LDL-C exposure, people that have been exposed to years and years of high LDL-C concentration in their bloodstream get heart disease progression but if they happen to lower it down the line it might be too late to avoid some sort of incident.>>77387505>cholesterol le good>>77389417>cholesterol le bad
>>77392994>every single thing in the history of ever is le Big X kikes at round table plotting ways to fuck the goyimtiring, go back
