Why should someone suffering and unable to improve not consider them?
>>77466047>muh manliness>muh not real>muh society>muh trans>muh vaxx>muh mainstream whatever>muh bootstraps>muh snakeoilthat should sum it up
>troons out of nowhere
>>77466047someone unable to improve should consider themmost people are able to improve doe
Because they don't do anything?The best hypothesis for their mechanism of action is that they simply cause disruption which can bring you out of local minima of brain function, but if you want to do that you could just do ketamine or psilocybin instead
>>77466047I don’t feel like being an MKUktra suicide assassin
>>77466084Shinobu! Post more shinobu reaction images!
>>77466047The only good anti-depressant is Wellbutrin. It's an NDRI instead of an SSRI and works on dopamine and norepinephrine. It's called the happy, horny, skinny pill amongst some for a reason. Complete opposite to what SSRIs do.
>Stuffing yourself with big pharma goyim drugsTake the shroom pill nigga, God's gift to this earth
>>77466047Every 4chan incel here has complete control over their mind and body with their le epic willpower.Of course they cant even look a girl in the eye and say hello, but whatever.
>>77466047When I had to live with my abusive parents I had depression but the crazy thing is that it went away after I moved out.
>>77466253>looking a succubus in the eyeThis is how they gain power over innocent men
>>77466239This plus dextromethorphan (yes, the cough syrup stuff) is actually god tier. If you've ever robotripped you know this well, the DXM afterglow is absolutely bliss tier. NMDA antagonists in general are well known for their euphoric/antidepressant effects.Some kike pharma company actually managed to patent the formulation despite both being cheap generic drugs, it blows everything else out of the water.
>>77466257you're not innocent. You're a porn addicted loser
They don't work. They have a name that suggests they do something like Anti your Depression but in reality they're just chemical salts. You're sad because your life is shit. The way to fix this is to change your life. 20mg of chemical salts will not achieve this... But going from 27% body fat to 10 will.
>>77466482Will going from 27% to 10% help my brain to forget that I've wasted my entire three and a half decades of life with no achievements or good happy memories to speak of to look back on, no life development, and thinking about how I'm ridiculously far behind with a future that is going to be absolute hell and that I need to get the courage to kill myself to prevent myself from having to suffer for however many more decades I have the misfortune of living?
>>77466505no that's at 8%
>>77466505No offense but do you really want to forget? You want to live as a lobotomized retard? Then take antidepressants, sure.But probably you want to be able to retain what you are and move forward with your past integrated into your identity. Only you can do that.
>>77466505 It won't fix it entirely but it will give you some chance of a future. It's 100% better than not achieving it. The past is the past and no amount of lamenting will change it but it is now within your power to redeem yourself and shape a future that will bring you dignity and glory. Everyone loves a heroic comeback.You're fucked, I'm fucked, we're all behind the ball but we can use it as fuel to drive us forward if we choose. Take up the challenge. Pick up your sword. The pills won't fix it anyway. They're fake. They don't work.
>>77466103They do work but retards think antidepressants should just make it you happy.
>>77466247In English, doc.
>>77466253What's with the random seethe? Lose another argument with a 4chan "incel"?Get used to it, you're here forever.
>>77466505one or two years of solid work can turn your life around towards the right direction. I haven't done it, but I've heard it's possible. :^)
>>77466538>They do workProof?
It depends on whether you are actually mentally ill or not.If you're a normie (not on 4chan), you probably don't need them. People with mild depression (triggered by events, lack of progress, pregnancy/menopause) will naturally recover from the depression after a few months. They are the ones who are often fiercely anti-SSRIs because the effect is minimal and they take a while to start. They think depression is fixable with willpower or healthy habits (actually just time, usually). Therapy works because it triggers placebo effects and most normie also lack any sense of perspective or inner exploration. If you're actually mentally ill, and have struggled since youth or for a long period, then get on SSRIs. Even more so if you are dealing with anxiety or OCD, because happiness is subjective but being frightened by a doorknob is not. Persistent major depression, OCD, and anxiety are not well-treated by therapy, which can't really "fix" the problem and just offers temporary relief from stress. Most SSRIs will have some level of reduction in libido, emotional blunting, weight gain. It can suck but SSRIs are a priceless alternative to active suffering or complete avoidance of real life. If you're in the US, Wellbutrin is a good one to try because it has a minor stimulating effect, which can negate the other issues.
>>77466505>oh man my past sucks, therefore I can I never improve the future so I gotta take pills to cope Why are westerners like this
>>77466505Are you computing this lad you can be alive and gay or alive and dope but as long as you're alive it's one or the other until you are dead. Them's the fuckin breaks get on your redemption arc or be back on this board in two years saying the same shit. You will succeed if you commit to the quest but you have to commit.The pills aren't shit they won't work it's a red herring you need to transform your body
>>77466047I think SSRIs broke my dick. It's been 5 years since I stopped but duck still broke. I'm already on tadalafil and I can get erections briefly but they deflate in like 10 seconds. I can't maintain a boner to save my life. What do?
>>77466577Anon I have been depressed since my teens. But these drugs are literally poison. They do not actually fix the problem. Depression does not just come about from nowhere, and so, drugs will not just fix it (yes, this goes for ketamine and psilocybin too). Depression is caused by external factors that need to be addressed and dealt with.
>>77466103this. i swear they're just a double placebo - the pill itself and the side effects.
>>77466047dont use them
>>77466666B A S E DOP and pharmajews irrevocably BTFO
>hear about how often normies are on meds like anti depressants or anti anxiety >they all seem to have good normal lives with friends, relationships, career, fitness, life progress, etc >meanwhile I’ve never been on any meds ever but continue to waste my worthless life in misery with no motivation to improve and have near breakdowns every day from how alone, miserable, and far behind in life I am which is all I think about every second of every day and has crippled my ability to function at allHmmm
>>77466047>What is the verdict on antidepressants?They're not fit.
>>77466764>all I think aboutWell then stop thinking about it
>>77466052I guess the hate is mostly because of:1- The popculture expectation is for antidepressants to make you happy. They don't. They prevent you from being sad because they haze the shit out of whatever makes you regulate all of that.2- The absolute buffoonery of carpet-prescribing that stuff to people who window-shop their own mental illness as a stopgap for a personality or effort. Which by association makes the genuine need that a whole bunch of people have for actual farmacological regulation seem trivial and unwarranted
>>77466386Wrong, I have a cute nerd wife (married at 20). How many children do you have, loser? Guess you're a genetic dead end.
They do almost nothing compared to placebo, and the ones that did something have been banned since the 70s (for good reason)."Walking it off" is objectively, measurably an equal or better clinical practice for depression than prescribing SSRIs.
Trump was right, the best cure for depression is to work your ass off
>>77466557They show a significant improvement especially when combined with therapy. From my own personal experience I recommend antidepressant but only in certain cases. I think it's pretty apparent that antidepressants have sedative or agitating effects. That shit is useful. There also is a niche for stuff like ocd and eating disorders but it can be useful for depression. Proper diagnostics and informed consent are just as important but get neglected because physicians don't know what the drug they prescribe actually does.
>>77466904Genuinely proof? If they don't work without therapy then they don't work. About "disruption" see >>77466103
>>77466898LmaoThats what I would tell depressed peasants too
>>77466904>They show a significant improvement especially when combined with therapy.>drugs that cause chemical castration, castrate my ability to feelsomehow women and jeets have come to the conclusion this is a positive and not a negative.
>>77466898good goy
>>77466582>Why are westerners like thisBecause unlike you disgusting fucking animals we actually have souls.
>>77467464Sit around and whine about how much you’re a depressed peasant on 4chan then, I’m sure that’ll get you happiness money and a girl that’ll look at without pure disgust
>>77467506Back to work, peasant. The time you wasted on that post would have been your lunch break.
>>77466594Depression can be triggered by real events but it can also be the result of chemical changes and brain injuries. It's possible that the feelings and illogical thinking will find a post hoc trigger to identify as a reason, but in reality the depression was purely chemical. These discussions always devolve into arguing about depression while ignoring that SSRIs are proven to be extremely useful for anxiety disorders and OCD as well, which shows that ultimately most anti-SSRI rhetoric is really just a remnant of the 20th century's bootstrap attitude toward mental health.Regardless, saying "these drugs cause emotional blunting!!!" is pointless when the people taking them are suffering with extreme sadness or terror for the majority of the day. Painkillers can reduce sensitivity of nerve endings but you don't see the same people griping about them.
>>77466778> First generation antidepressants made my 60s mom seem hazy so all antidepressants must be bad> Never mind that she killed herself when she went off themBoomers are retarded. I take SSRIs now and besides making sex longer, they haven't affected my actual happiness or motivation. I remember the first time I felt real joy after starting them, almost been half a decade before I'd felt like that.
>>77467777Wasted>it can also be the result of chemical changes and brain injuriesThe chemical imbalance theory of depression has long been disproved. SSRIs are not any better at fixing "brain injury" than other psychoactives.>SSRIs are proven to be extremely useful for anxiety disorders and OCD as wellLithium does the same thing without side effects including chemical lobotomy. I'm not against using drugs to treat psychological conditions but antidepressants are NOT the right kind of drug.>Regardless, saying "these drugs cause emotional blunting!!!" is pointless when the people taking them are suffering with extreme sadness or terror for the majority of the day.Apathy is far far far worse than sadness. Becoming a zombie in exchange for not being sad anymore is not a choice that people should have to take. Also, as I've said, there are drugs that get you out of local minima without the horrid side effects of antidepressants.>Painkillers can reduce sensitivity of nerve endings but you don't see the same people griping about them.Nobody is saying that you should chronically take painkillers for months and months daily, but that's exactly what doctors do for SSRIs.
>>77466262Yeah they have Auvelity now; Bupropion blocks the CYP2D6 enzyme that converts DXM into DXO, therefore you reap in the SERT inhibitor and serotonergic effects of the DXM molecule.I know a couple of Bluelighters back in the day would take piperine and some DPH to reduce as much DXM —> DXO conversion as possible. Funny how people were doing something similar to what now pharmaceutical companies are currently doing today.
>>77466047gay and stupid. it nullifies my desire to rope.was prescribed venlafaxine after a suicide attempt from OD'ing on benzos (sister visited that day, of all the fucking dates possible) and while it's been okay living with minimal side effects, living life medicated is gay as fuck. imagine doing this for life.
How do you fix PSSD? I've heard ALCAR or Wellbutrin but I've also heard they make it worse. Anyone with experience fixing PSSD?
>>77466047normie/10
>>77466666Quintuplets of truth
I'm a depressed miserable suicidal loser because I make no attempts to change my pathetic worthless life. I don't take any medications but I wonder if taking them would at least give me some hope that my future isn't going to be the abominable hell that it is clearly headed towards right now, so maybe I will have some motivation to do something to try to improve my life. I'm really tired of seeing/reading about how everyone nowadays especially in my 30s age range seems to be on some sort of medication for depression or anxiety or adderall and they all have normal, good lives with great careers, a marriage and kids, own a home, have friends, have hobbies, loving family, have great drive for life while I sit here a completely useless basket case.
>>77467438>surgery doesn't work without rehab therefore it's useless
I was on Lexapro for 6 months after being an alcoholic for 2 years. It worked for like a month and a half and I genuinely felt happy and gold. But I had problems sleeping and I wasn't horny anymore. Then for the next 4 months those feelings went away and I just felt numb all the time and still felt the side effects so I just quit cold turkey instead of refilling my prescription. Fuck that shit but at least it helped me stop drinking
>>77467777>most anti-SSRI rhetoric is really just a remnant of the 20th century's bootstrap attitude toward mental healthYou don't sound like you've taken any. These drugs are thrown at people like fucking miraculous candies, we know they sometimes work but not exactly why and when they don't we don't know why either. When they're prescribed to you, you become your own guinea pig. I've gone over 6 SSRI and you're told to keep taking them for a minimum of 2 months despite the side effects, to "know whether it really works or not for you". Two fucking months of feeling even worse. The patient, the one with depression, has to observe himself and his own fucking feelings constantly, to tell the doc whether there's an improvement or not. It's fucking absurd and the sexual side effects (ED) after stopping them can be long term or even permanent in some cases.The one I took for the longest did nothing for me but keep me sedated all the time. It is true that, if you're lucky, it can work very well for you and be night and day, but this is clearly not the average case. People shit on SSRI because they're used excessively by people who at the end of the day have no idea what they're doing. The reality is that psychiatry had made very little progress over the last few decades and is still in its infancy.
>>77466047They cost money
>>77467438You cannot prescribe then here without empirical evidence of the specific drug working. From my clinical practice I'd say they work a fair amount of times with medication being the only factor involved.
Medications don't fix underlying issues (most of the time). If one somehow does improve your situation, and you feel good/can live life better, then you should immediately focus on that sensation and try to maintain it while tapering to zero.>>77466505There is still masters league for most sports. Avoid becoming a cripple and you can mog masters powerlifting or lympic lifting ezpz.
>>77468398There's clearly a difference between healing from trauma of the surgery and adding another separate intervention.>>77468473Have you given your patients placebo pills as well? No? Then your anecdote is worthless.Before you cite some shitty analysis showing that "erm ackshually they work better than placebo"...https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2019.00407/full>This difference in side effects might lead patients in clinical trials, as well as the clinicians who rate their improvement, to figure out to which group they have been randomized. To the extent that this occurs, the trial is not really double-blind. In this section, I describe data indicating that patients in clinical trials often do break blind and that breaking blind affects the outcomes of the trials.
>>77468496>claims the other side uses anecdotal evidence>have you given placebo to your patients?You have no idea what you are talking about. There is an ample body of evidence that they do work to a certain extent. The linked article is nothing but fishing for circumstantial evidence. As long as the efficacy is proven and it shows effect in clinical practice antidepressants will hold up as a treatment method for depression and similiar disorders. There is a good reason why certain medication are given more often in day to day practice. Mirtazapine, Sertralin or Venlafaxin all have different positive effects. Buproprion and Opripramol have too but show different working mechanism compared to classical treatment. Claiming it's placebo without any proof is just being schizo.
>>77468512Show me one (1) RCT study of an antidepressant against an active placebo, with identical side effects. Please, go ahead, I'm waiting. You did say there's an "ample body of evidence", right? So one study shouldn't be so hard to find.>positive effects>working mechanismLmao what? You're saying that you know how depression is chemically caused in the brain? You might deserve a Nobel, anon.>Claiming it's placebo without any proofEven the *strongest* possible evidence in your favor suggests an improvement only in a small subset of people:https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2021-067606>about 15% of participants have a substantial antidepressant effect beyond a placebo effect in clinical trials
>>77468519It's pointless to argue with you people because you have no idea about medicine. It's always some plumber or clerk who knows better because he has discovered something on the internet. This whole debate has been around since I finished university and nothing ever came of it. It's always statistical boogaloo without any followup. If it is so easy to prove why does nobody venture into that area? Healthcare providers would love for antidepressants to not work but even these people accept the evidence for licensing.Antidepressants have their place in therapy and the ignorance of the unwashed masses not understanding won't change a thing.>suddenly they have a small statical effect sizeJust stop, my dude. It's always the same epsecially on this shizo site and it has gotten worse since orange nigger flooded these boards with election tourists.
>>77468531>medfag can't read studies so he resorts to personal attacksSad! Many such cases.>>suddenly they have a small statical effect sizeWhat do you not get about "strongest possible evidence in your favor"? It was a steelman for you. Of course you can't cite a single study with an active placebo, but the point is that even if I water down my standards, they're hardly effective in most people.
https://www.dcscience.net/2015/12/11/placebo-effects-are-weak-regression-to-the-mean-is-the-main-reason-ineffective-treatments-appear-to-work/>There’s a striking similarity between the narrative used by homeopaths and those who are struggling to treat depression. The pill may not work for many weeks. If the first sort of pill doesn’t work try another sort. You may get worse before you get better. One is reminded, inexorably, of Voltaire’s aphorism "The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease".
>>77468433 I've been on paxil for OCD for 2 years and it has completely changed my life for the better. My family's hatred of SSRIs caused my mental health to go undiagnosed for decades and I still have to put up with their insistence that I'm not making the right choice, despite their never having even tried SSRIs themselves. And this is fucking paxil, one of the oldest meds with the most side effects. I'll gladly take a bit of trouble with sex if it means I no longer have to drive home on lunch breaks to check if I left my stove on. >>77467828>brain imbalance is disprovenThere is a massive difference between "brain is not producing the correct chemicals or responding correctly" and "chemical imbalance theory." We do not need to fully understand a medication to appreciate its effects. As long as studies show efficacy and safety, it's worth consideration if it can improve quality of life. >lithiumLithium works for different conditions than SSRIs. It is not a cure-all for depression or anxiety.> apathy is worse!!!1!1!So because you think apathy is worse than active suffering, no one should be allowed to make the choice for themselves? You'd be hard pressed to find a doctor or patient who wouldn't advocate for a level of numbness over constant chronic pain.
>>77466666It's really that simple. I'd sooner suggest drinking as a coping mechanism than "these may motivate you to blow your brains out"-depressants.
>>77468496>just decide to run blind trials on your patients, broI'm not even on team pharma but your arguments are as reductive, abrasive, and stupid as possible. Use your brain better
i think having a group of real life friends (not online friends, that fucking sucks) is way better than anti depressants.i suggest calisthenics or sports for that goal
>>77466047I'm prone to bad reactions to drugs.My mom is mentally ill and addicted to psych medications and i don't want to risk itI'm sure i need help and am deeply unwell but i doubt the pills will solve it and there is a real chance they will make it all worse.
OP ask your doctor about doxepin. I've been taking it for years and it's worked wonders for me. All I use it for is to get a good night's rest, which is hard in this stressful fucked up world. In low doses its just a simple sleep aid. The worst "side-effect" I experience are vivid dreams, not even nightmares, just elaborate dreams about ordinary life. Ive found that once I get a solid 7-8 hours every night all of my mental issues have pretty much gone away.
>>77470124>tricyclic SNRInot even once
>>77468398That's a poor analogy, even though I partially agree eith you.
>>77466047Antidepressants raped my mind and I have not felt a single emotion in around 2 years. If you decide to get on them don't stay on them for too long or you will develop a chemical dependence. And if you decide to come off be warned that withdrawal can last far longer than a couple weeks and be absolutely brutal. Learn how to do slow hyperbolic tapering so you don't fuck up your brain like I did.Doctors don't know about how bad withdrawal can be because studies on withdrawal are only based on people who were taking them only for short periods of time. They don't know shit. Do your own research
>>77470271Emotional numbing is typically a side effect any decent psychiatrist will count as a reason to move onto another medication.Also, withdrawal is well known and has been well known in the literature for a while now and there are several books out by psychiatrists out on how to properly taper people off these medications.
>>77470276I got emotional numbing from reinstating two antidepressants at once after a period of severe withdrawal. It has persisted even after quitting these meds. Probably as a result of some kind of kindling mechanism. Who knows. But that's why careful tapering is important, so you don't end up in a situation like that and give yourself chemical brain damage.Most prescribers don't know shit about withdrawal. If your withdrawal lasts more than a couple of weeks they will consider that a return of your "original condition" and put you right back on meds. I have had two different prescribers do this to me. Sure some books are out there about proper tapering but they are still considered "fringe" and are not a part of mainstream knowledge yet.
>>77466047If it works for you, then it's good. It made me feel like a different person, which to be honest wasn't a bad thing. Though you do feel a little dead inside, I can see the use because it makes you just do work/chores without a care in the world. It REALLY does kill your OCD though (mainly because it makes you extremely apathetic).Oh yeah and you can't cum.
>>77466047Sertraline helped my debilitating depression and alcohol addiction. But it did make me feel weird after a few months of continuous use.
>>77466047I think they are like antibiotics. You should use them if you really need them. Ive been on sertraline for years with no adverse effects (my dick still works perfectly) and i cut down it to the minimum dose possible, and I'll stop it once this package is empty. However if you don't need them do not use them.I was devastated due to my ex, couldnt sleep nor eat for a month, could only drink beer. The doctor recommended Medazepam, which helped immensely. I took it whenever I couldn't bear it no more phsyically -I had liver and kidney pain, lost 7 kilos etc-, since its like a painkiller that relaxes you within half an hour. But these are ALL half measures and you can only solve your problems in your own mind. Philosophy, mindset and routine helped me immensely. And do not listen to any of the cucks who talk like this shit is not manly, since its just medication. No one knows what one goes through.And always remember. Aus der Kriegsschule des Lebens.—Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker. Always remember that when you are going through hardships. Do not try to erase hardships, embrace them. Thats what I did. I recorded myself wailing for gods sake lmao to remind myself from time to time this is what life looks like when you live with full intensity. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
>>77466505Pills won't help you either nigga
>>77470215What's your problem with it?
Poison, dont take them at ant cost. They exist to destroy your ability to think for yourself and make you docile and stupid.
>>77466588Holy shit don't remind of that. I took SSRIs just for 20 days to help me with leg pain and my dick shrinked on the second day, wouldn't get up on the fourth day and I couldn't cum on the fifth. I saw people on the internet saying it could never get back to normal again and I freaked out. Everything went back to normal after the first week though, thank God. Sorry for you anon.
>>77472204Thanks man. I still hope it's not too late for me but either way it's good it didn't happen to you. Fewer lives ruined the better.
>>77466546it's five sentences you lazy fuck
>>77466764>hear about how often normies are on meds like anti depressants or anti anxiety>they all seem to have good normal lives with friends, relationships, career, fitness, life progress, etcyou could also argue that that very same idealistic lifestyle made them so depressed/anxious that they needed to take a chemical buffer to prevent themselves from breaking
>>77466047They're fine if you need them.Don't wait until your life collapses around you just because some faggot on 4chan told you so.I'm glad I realized that I simply cannot go on without help. It's hard to admit to yourself that you have a problem that you can't fix without medication, especially when this shithole is your main form of "socializing".Meds got me through grad school and help my maintain a high paying job. I'd probably be homeless doing street meth without them. Probably would have kys'd myself by now from the shame of being a failure too.>Muh numbness I started Lexapro specifically to get numb to the 24/7 feeling of doom and complete hopelessness. Wellbutrin helps to power through it but at a certain point I'm just unable to get out of bed.Study the side effect profile and risk benefits. And yes they're not curative.Those feelings are still there but they're not consuming my soul anymore.Yes I know the Adderall is going to make me die 10 years earlier. That's ok. I would rather live 50 decent years than 70 shit ones.
>>77472188you are retarded
>>77466505practice not indulging in self pity, you can do it with practice. Every day you make choices that your future self is going to have to deal with one way or another.
