>>77473295
Its a lift for virgins or Chads, no in between

>>77473295
Truth is, you're a pussy

Some kind of hinge is necessary. It's a basic movement. Squat, hinge, push, pull.

>>77473295
both are wrong.
They're not dangerous or useless, nor are they mandatory for strength.

>>77473295
>What is the truth?
What actions have you ever performed "in-real-life?"
You should train those actions.
1. Learn perfect form.
2. Practice perfect form.
3. Train increasingly heavier weight while performing perfect form.
4. Learn your limits.

Chances are, "picking something up from the ground" is something you've done before. It's worth training the safest, strongest way to perform that action; you'll be able to lift more, and better, than everyone around you for decades and decades to come.

>>77473295
They're mandatory if you live a modern lifestyle and don't want back pain, as are doing abdominal exercises. BUT chasing numbers is a one way ticket to snap city; your legs and glutes are way more powerful than your lower back and by the time you feel anything in them your lower back will already be cooked. Lift light and do romanian deadlifts in volume.

you have to live it

>>77473295
Why the fuck can I casually 3pl8 squat but 3pl8 deadlift kills me? It's the only thing stopping me from 1/2/3/4

>>77473295
Will I get away with doing RDLs instead of deadlifts?
I'm a noob and my max is currently 2pl8 x 11. But I can't seem to progress beyond that plus my grip is weak as fuck.

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>>77473303
this place is cursed. however, at times absolute gems of truth can be found amongst the ruins.

>>77473295
Gotta do a hinge. It doesn't have to be a deadlift, it could be a kettlebell swing or cable pull through or a power clean or such.
People who chase the 1RM dragon have a higher risk of injury but that applies to every lift. If you did RDLs for volume you wouldn't consider it useless or dangerous.

>>77473295
>What is the truth?
Both.

>>77473387
Also this.
>>77473319

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>>77473295
Not dangerous with proper warmups, form, mind muscle connection, and understanding when to increase weight.
The real problem is how conventional deadlifts are programmed and understanding what conventional deadlifts are best at.
Conventional deadlifts are best used by athletes to build explosive power rather than bodybuilders.
While you can build a big posterior chain with them, they are extremely demanding on the body which messes with recover.
This means they must be programmed around and lifting volume needs to be lower as to be able to recover from them.
That's fine for athletes who are more interesting in build explosive power over building muscle.
But for a bodybuilder, conventional deadlifts are a pain to include in a program because it's hard to get enough volume and exercise selection while maintaining good recovery.
Bodybuilders are better off doing deadlifting variants like romanian deadlifts rather than conventional deadlifts.

>>77473295
They're not mandatory for anything. No lift is mandatory for strength. Strength training is just contracting the muscle hard for some number of lengthening-contraction cycles. Do it regularly enough then the muscle grows and gets stronger.
>b-but strength adaptations v. hypertrophy adaptations
Hypertrophy is a strength adaptation you fucking dimwits. Muscle gets bigger because it both accumulates sarcoplasm and grows its myofibrils. More/Bigger myofibrils = Stronger muscle.

The danger with deadlift is just someone doing it with shitty form, especially when people do sumo. I have never seen someone do sumo with good control over their spine. Always some degree of flexion. Spine is strongest in neutral position.

Conventional deadlift is an option for
>Hamstrings
>Glutes
>Erector Spinae
>Traps
>little bit of forearms
It's good, but it's not necessary unless you're powerlifting or oly lifting. You just need some combo of exercises where you contract those muscles hard. Look up some exercises for those muscle groups, mix and match, and then you have a routine. I'll give you one here.
>weighted hyperextension (erector spinae + glutes + hamstrings)
>leg curls (steamed hams)
>shrugs (traps)
>gripper (finger flexors)
>wrist curls (wrist flexors)
>reverse wrist curls (wrist extensors)

>>77473342
yes

>>77473295
I think if you don't do deadlifts, your body will become chest dominant and your posture will suck because of it. Deadlifts work the spinal erectors.

>>77473295
I don't know why deadlifts get so much hate, they're fun and easy and feel good. No deadlift ever snapped my shit up. Squats on the other hand... Fuck squats.

>>77473303
/thread
>>77473342
try mixed grip, overhand on one side and underhand on the other

>>77473506
>loves deadlifts
>hates squats
Inconceivably based.

>>77473342
Yes
RDL are still a hip hinge compound barbell movement that can easily be progressively overloaded.

>>77473295
>>77473442
You are much more likely to get injured with low bar back squats
Deadlifts are safe, just don’t do them with high frequency.
And yes they are mandatory if you want full back growth. Just do them once a week, until you get up to 2.5x body weight then drop it to every 10-14 days and you’ll be fine

>>77473295
the truth is there is no real world application for being able to lift something with you legs back and core that you would not be able to practically hang onto with your hands. even if you arent using cheats like straps, you will never find 400lbs attached to a bar anywhere in the world outside a gym

>>77473295
Deadlift works so many muscles it is basically a complete lower body workout in a single lift
It is not mandatory, but it is an SSS tier lift

>>77473530
>they are mandatory if you want full back growth
They aren't. You can look up the function of each of those muscles and find out that you can train your entire back with just Chin ups, Rows, Shrugs, and Hyperextensions. It's an option, but not necessary.

>>77473295
How do some people manage to get good numbers on deadlifts and still look like utter dyels?
Just saw some complete skelly who looks like he has never touched a barbell in his life pulling 4pl8s

>>77473849
It’s a memelift

Dyor. Ask yourself why you are performing a deadlift and putting load on your discs. Perfect form or not. How many 50+yr olds do you see dead lifting in the gym?
Imo the only reason to do this lift is if you want to compete in strongman or powerlifting.

>>77473295
They are good for strength, but they are also high risk and very fatiguing. Picking up heavy shit is fun too. Unfortunately I never liked them, they never felt good no matter how many form videos I watched and how hard I tried to make them work. I do RDLs and barbell back extensions instead, I'm much happier with them.

>>77473295
It's a lift fatties are proud of, which tarnishes it's reputation. 99% have terrible form, which makes it dangerous. It's not that hard, just start with the bar over mid foot, and you've got better from than 99% of other deadlifters. It's not necessary, but it's a quick compound to train back thickness along with hamstring and forearms, so you save a lot of time and effort.

>>77473342
Hook grip while you're still on light weight. Pain goes away in 4 sessions. Go watch 10 videos on form before you do it. If your fingernails hurts, your not sticking your thumb in deep enough, you need your index and middle finger pads to grip the side of the thumb rather than the nail.

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>>77473295
>while offering no replacement
That's because there is no replacing your spine
Even with the best brace and the best form it will still destroy your vertebrae over time

The real truth is that if you're chasing a temporary glory and are fine having issues in your 40s and 50s go ahead and deadlift if you want. If you want to be muscular and active into your 60s and 70s and live a life into your 80s you should be training the exercises that are sustainable for the next 50 years of your life.

The best example is the difference between Arnold and Ronnie. Coleman won the gains game, but now rolls around in a wheelchair while Schwarzenegger remains mobile and active. I would rather be a 'negger than a Coleman.

There is no obstensively right answers - only the right answer for you and the right answer for me.

>>77473923
oh yes, deadlifts are definietly why Coleman is in a wheelchair you fucking retard lmao

>>77473342
Just use straps on RDLs, train your grip in another way. I always use straps on RDLs, whilst using straps on the second and third set of my deadlifts, and I go raw on the first and last. And yes you don't need to do conventional deadlifts, hell you don't have to do any singular exercise.

>>77473442
>Hypertrophy is a strength adaptation you fucking dimwits
oh yes. thats probably why bodybuilders on olympia compete at strength events, since they have more muscle. thanks anon!

>>77473438
thats the gist of it basically. I wouldn't do conventional deadlifts if my goal was hypertrophy in the sense bodybuilders obsess over it, but for strength they are one of the best exercises there are.

>>77473931
>oh yes, deadlifts are definietly why Coleman is in a wheelchair you fucking retard lmao
Yes, it's quite literally why he needed surgery and why he ended up in a wheelchair
How about about you actually look into things instead of being a worthless moron?

Actually you know what? Don't bother doing that.
Once you've injured yourself permanently then you'll understand why you're worthless and I would seriously like to see you suffering because stupidity deserves to be painful.

>>77473295
I don’t really get why they are considered more dangerous than any other compound when unlike all pushing movements the weight is underneath you which already makes it way more safe because if you fail the lift you just are not able to lift the weight off the floor but for example with squats if you fail the lift you are under the bar and you need to get out somehow be it either safeties or bailing.

>>77474602
>because if you fail the lift you just are not able to lift the weight off the floor
Most people who fail on the deadlift allow their spine to curl which herniates the discs and grinds the cartiledge down whether or not they get it off the ground

>>77474610
But then it comes down to poor form and you can get injured because of poor form doing anything really.

>>77474258
keep crying spinelet

>>77473295
I've had a love-hate relationship with them for years. I herniated my L4/L5 doing deadlifts ages ago and it took me a long time to recover and pick them up again. I think the main issue with the lift is that you typically have the strength to move much more weight than you can do safely and it's not always easy to notice when your form is already degrading. When I started deadlifting again I intentionally stayed well below my estimated 5-rep max and I increase the weight in much smaller increments. If a rep doesn't feel perfect I stop the set and either rest or call it a day.

>>77474613
Nta, but on most lifts you fail because your muscles can't produce the force to move the weight. That in itself reduces the risk of injury a little bit. With deadlifts you have massive, powerful muscles that are totally capable of breaking the weight off the floor even if all your stabilizers are failing. It's a bit like the asymmetry of adaptation speed you see in roiders that have become strong really quickly while their tendons are still weak. They can produce more force than the weakest link can handle.

>>77474773
But how does that differ for example from squats?

>>77474816
I think one factor is that lifts like a squat or bench start with the eccentric where you and your CNS instinctively gauge just how heavy it is and whether it's safe to perform. Obviously, a lot of things can still go wrong during a squat and bracing is equally important, but as you lower the weight your muscles are already under pre-tension, which can be lacking when you attempt a deadlift. Then you have the lever-effect in the deadlift that puts immediate stress on your lower back, whereas the load is much closer to your center of mass in the squat.

>>77473933
I do weighted chin ups twice a week. Will that strengthen my grip somewhat?
I heard many people saying that straps on deadlift variations will make your grip lag behind significantly.

>>77473908
Is hook grip a better option than using straps?

>>77473342
Improve your grip. The most I’ve deadlifted is 180kg and I’ve never had to use any weird grip.

Do dead hangs for increasingly longer times and farmers walk with dumbbells (best for grip strength)

>>77474773
>If a rep doesn't feel perfect I stop the set and either rest or call it a day.
I think I might go with this. I'm a lanklet and I've been lifting for 6 months. 1 plate deadlift feels fine and I can go 3x10 with good fatigue at the end. I up to 185 and my form starts slipping fast. I've injured myself 3 times and just yesterday. The area to the side of my spine and right above my buttocks is the main source. There wasn't even a moment yesterday where I knew I fucked up but by the end of the set I knew I had let my form slip badly and the pain got slowly worse over the day. When I do them right I get great soreness in my upper and lower back I like that feeling. But fucking them up ruins the next 2-3 weeks. It's irritating

>>77474773
>>77474987
You should only do one set of deadlifts because a breakdown in form is dangerous. I aim for 6-10 reps and increase the weight when I can do 10 clean reps. Doing them with proper form is a lot harder and it’s a lot easier to tell when you’ve reached technical failure.

You can lift more than you can handle with these by using poor form. This is why they can be dangerous

>>77473303
>The Virgin Deadlift
>VS
>The Chad Deadlift

>>77473295
Deadlifts are very important to build natural strength all around and to help teach the importance of proper form. The problem is people ego lift so much and fuck their shit up. Unless you are a power lifter there is no reason to lift heavier than the point that straps or mixed grip is needed. I pretty much max out at 315 for several reps with proper form once a week (but everyone will be different)
Once deadlifts are no longer needed it’s good to switch to RDLs to keep the same muscles lifted.

>>77473295
There's no reason whatsoever deadlift and plenty not to. Any exercise where the first response is "your form is the problem not the exercise" is an utter dogshit bottom tier exercise only performed by the dumbest tryhards on planet earth.

>>77473295
Deadlifts are fine, so are the alternatives. As long as you aren't egolifing 1RM PRs and stick to 5-8 rep sets you will likely never have issues

>>77475928
>Any exercise where the first response is "your form is the problem not the exercise" is an utter dog-AHHHHHHHH HELP!!! CHRIS, CALL MY MOM I JUST BROKE MY ANKLE WALKING UP THE STAIRS!!!! CALL WORK TELL THEM I I'M GOING TO THE HOSPITAL AND I WON'T BE AT WORK FOR THE NEXT 30 DAYS!!!! CHRIS!! CHRIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS!!!

>>77474977
>I heard many people saying that straps on deadlift variations will make your grip lag behind significantly.
they will as opposed to doing them raw but I don't believe that the point of deadlift variations are grip strength. You can train your grip in much better ways such as towel hangs, which literrally fuck your forearms and fingers up in such a good way. I do not think that deadlifts are meant to train your grip that much, which is why I use straps on the second and third sets, an do the first and fourth sets raw. My strapped sats are like 15 to 20 kilos higher than my raw sets for example.

>>77475976
you heard me bitch boy. you're a bitch. a little bitch. that's all you'll ever be.

>>77474979
Always better to lift without equipment than with. I've always seen straps as another form of gym glove. Also trains your forearm grip strength rather than relying on the strap. Also avoids injury when the strap inevitably snaps.

>>77474993
10 rep deadlift lmfao.

Most sane people train 1-5 reps. The main benefit comes in the initial/reset portion of the lift. 10 rep touch and go is training to bow to your wife's boyfriend to ask him to buy you a switch.

I went heavy for the first time in a while yesterday. I felt like the king of the gym since the smith machine was set up in the center of the room.
>smith doesn't count bro
Cope

>>77474987
You are a retarded nigger causing yourself injury doing well under 2 plates on deadlifts. Thats fucking baby weight and you're already getting injured. Holy shit listen to your body and stop doing them you absolute dyel idiot.

>>77473295

I only do the first rep from the floor, then do SLDLs down below the knees, highish reps.

You can get the benefit of a hip movement without risking an injury. I dislike doing heavy deadlifts off the floor.

>>77476792
I don't disagree but I have to push myself and up the weight...I can't just sit at 3x10 1 plate deadlift forever. My lower back is clearly a weak point. I already do weighted back extensions so I need some other accessory lifts to support deadlift. If I still get fucked up then I'll look into using the trap bar

>>77473317
This is the same dude claiming he can't make gains cuz genetics lmao

>>77473295
Getting stronger is the most important thing followed closely by total work capacity
Deadlifts are by far the best way to train your maximum output bar none
Increasing your output is what drives your strength AND capacity
This combined with the hormone response from moving that much weight across your entire body makes deadlifts absolutely tantamount in reaching your true natty potential

>>77473295
Both of these are partially correct. unless your goal is to be a powershitter or oly weightlifter, they are not mandatory.

They are also not inherently dangerous if you do them right. however, that is the problem. every fucking lifting program has deadlifts incorporated in them and retards think they can watch a 10 min youtube video, do a few practice reps and have them mastered.
these are the tards that then come on /fit/ and post "heard something pop in my back today, what should i do next???"

they are harder to do right then most people think. if you can do them 100% right and not ego lift, they are fine. however, most people aren't doing them right and WILL fuck their backs up.

>>77473295
If you want a strong back, these are absolutely necessary

>>77473295
>What is the truth?
here is the truth
>be 10 years ago
>getting into lifting weights
>athleanx at 50k subs
>do situps, pullups and dumbell stuff
>look for advice on the internet
>everyone says to do 5x5, heavy compound lifts
>squats are a must
>deadlifts are a must
>look up studies: strentgh correlates to mass
>try to figure out 1RP
>deadlift 70kg
>back pops
>spend next 3 years in recovery and pick up lifting 10 years only 10 years later
granted i had issues prior with my back but not a herniated disc.
Some people like myself are not build for heavy compound lifts. my spine is as thick as a pencil and snaps at 60kg, others can lift 200kg their entire life and feel great
>inb4 form
there is plenty of people who have hurt themselves with proper form. it's just a matter of time until you hurt yourself imo. skip these stupid heavy lifts where you can hurt yourself so much that you cant bend down for years anymore. all your gains will be lost and time will be wasted. prioritze to go injury free or you ll end up back to being a fatass for the next years.
Even if you are in shape, tear a muscle or a tendon and you ll be healing the following two years, it;s just not worth it

>>77473295
They're a dangerous and ultimately unnecessary shortcut to massive strength gains

All it takes is one bad rep and you're fucked for life

I never deadlift, I never pick up anything off the floor. Dropped pencil? Gone forever. Firstborn son wants uppies? Sorry champ. I've spent literal thousands on new phones every year just from them getting knocked off the night stand, but at least I don't need to worry about phone cases or gorilla glass protecting them from the impact. It's a hard life but I'm doing my bit keeping my back safe from the inherently injurious movement of lifting things. Looking forward to being spritely and healthy at 50, 60, 70+, I'll be laughing at your faggots in wheelchairs then.

>>77473295
I've heard a lot of people saying that deadlifts are the best exercise for building traps. Is that true?

>>77473303
Hahahahahah fuck that is true

>>77479620
It's not the best, but it does decently work them

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>>77473303
FPBP
/thread

>>77473442
Peak midwit

>>77475243
lol based and true

>>77475928
faggot

>>77473438
>Not dangerous with proper form
Take two steps back and think about what you just said.

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>>77473295

It's a lift for the fat people that need to compensate for their lack or aesthetics with something else. Nobody cares how much you can lift off the ground if your gut is hanging out of your shirt.

>>77473303
Your a simple man aren't you.

its only useless and dangerous for retards that never learn what they are doing wrong