there is not a single intervention or observational study showing increased meat consumption in normal/overweight individuals (you)* leading to a better health outcome. Increased meat consumption is associated with and/or is known to cause:>higher rates of cancer>lower insulin sensitivity>lower life expectancy>atherosclerotic scarring in the heart (causes heart attacks and heart disease)>atherosclerotic scarring in the brain (causes stroke)>atherosclerotic scarring in the veins (causes diabetes)>diabetes>lower TFurthermore, if you live in North America, your meat has poop particles all over them, tons of antibiotics (leading to higher antibiotic resistance), hormones, mystery vaccines, and of course things like E Coli.Also, dairy and eggs are just as bad or even worse.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frVy1Sj8f0A*the one study that ketolards love to bring up is showing underweight seniors who don't eat enough calories benefit from eating meat (high calorie density, duhh. They would have benefitted more from drinking peanut butter onions milk smoothies.)
>but... veganism is... le BAD! I saw a meme about vegans being limp wristed libruls!!!!Vegans have the highest life expectancy among an already extremely healthy cohort (adventists in California) and lowest risks of chronic diseases>muh B12plant milk is supplemented with it in the same way normal milk is, retard>muh childrenIn the TARGet KIDS! longitudinal cohort study, 8907 children (average age at baselineof 2.2 years) were followed for approximately 2.8 years. Among these individuals, 248were VG, including 25 VNs (10%) at the start of the study. Recruitment involved generalpractitioners, social media, VG-focused websites, and enrolment during routine healthcheck-ups at 13 paediatric or family medicine clinics. The study aimed to explore the effectsof a VG diet compared to an OM diet on growth, micronutrient stores (iron and vitamin D),and serum lipid levels in healthy children, considering factors such as cow’s milk consumption and age. The results indicated no significant associations between the consumptionof a VG diet and zBMI, height-for-age z scores, and serum ferritin, 25-hydroxyvitaminD (25(OHD), and serum lipid levels. There were no clinically meaningful differences ingrowth or nutritional measures [87].
>muh gainshttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32332862/>Is a vegan diet detrimental to endurance and muscle strength?>The results suggest that a vegan diet does not seem to be detrimental to endurance and muscle strength in healthy young lean women. In fact, our study showed that submaximal endurance might be better in vegans compared with omnivores. Therefore, these findings contradict the popular belief of the general population.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32674452/>A Vegan Athlete's Heart-Is It Different? Morphology and Function in Echocardiography>Vegans displayed a higher VO2max (54.08 vs. 50.10 mL/kg/min, p < 0.05), which correlated positively with carbohydrate intake (ρ = 0.52) and negatively with MUFA (monounsaturated fatty acids) intake (ρ = -0.43). The vegans presented a more eccentric form of remodelling with greater left ventricular end diastolic diameter (LVEDd, 2.93 vs. 2.81 cm/m2, p = 0.04) and a lower relative wall thickness (RWT, 0.39 vs. 0.42, p = 0.04) and left ventricular mass (LVM, 190 vs. 210 g, p = 0.01). The left ventricular mass index (LVMI) was similar (108 vs. 115 g/m2, p = NS). Longitudinal strain was higher in the vegan group (-20.5 vs. -19.6%, p = 0.04), suggesting better systolic function. Higher E-wave velocities (87 vs. 78 cm/s, p = 0.001) and E/e' ratios (6.32 vs. 5.6, p = 0.03) may suggest better diastolic function in the vegan group. The results demonstrate that following a plant-based diet does not impair amateur athletes' performance and influences both morphological and functional heart remodelling. The lower RWT and better LV systolic and diastolic function are most likely positive echocardiographic findings.
Counterpoint: meat is fine and you are gay and retarded nigga.
>>77514784ah yes, a typical specimen of ketolard "science" and "debate"notice the scientific illiteracy, failure to respond to any of my points, and generally low verbal IQ. These can all be caused by brain fog caused by saturated fat and cholesterol clogging up your brain. Did I mention that meat consumption is also associated with alzheimer's and dementia?Ketolards often resort to slurs when they are too lazy to try to justify their immoral and unscientific behaviour.
This is moxyte, right?
>>77514793You've been spamming about this for years like a an obsessive autist. I doubt you have even changed a single mind. Its time to find some new hobbies nigga.
>>77514795hello ketoschizo. Is Moxyte in the room with you right now? Did you check your closet and under your bed last night for Moxyte? Is everyone who isn't a ketolard "moxyte"? Did Moxyte go back in time to ancient india and 19th century America to convince people not to be ketolards?
>>77514795Always is, without fail. He basically lives here, and has for several years. It's best to ignore him, he gets bored eventually and goes away for the evening
>>77514748Funny you have to put that first caveat in there, considering all the studies finding weight loss on plant-based diets plus: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/02/260225081214.htm>Study finds vegetarians over 80 less likely to reach 100Maybe eating too much of any one food is generally a bad idea, but focusing too much on mechanistic health boogeymen can also distract you from literally starving to death on low-calorie plantslop?
>>77514798>I doubt you have even changed a single mind.ketolards are too scientifically illiterate to accept information that isn't from their favorite youtube influencer. They're already a lost cause. What I offer is edification for those who can be edified. Your scientific illiteracy, irrationality, and immoral behaviour is not reflective of the entire population, only the bottom 50% of it. I'm sure many people have found new information in the hard science that I present.
>>77514804>Funny you have to put that first caveat in there, considering all the studies finding weight loss on plant-based diets plus: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/02/260225081214.htm>but only for frail, underweight seniors.>but only for frail, underweight seniors.>but only for frail, underweight seniors.work on your reading comprehension, ketolard.>mechanistic health boogeymenno, mechanistic health boogeymen is what KETOLARDS focus on. I'm presenting HARD SCIENCE, interventional and observational. Vegans have the HIGHEST life expectancy, refuting your implied point. Do you want me to do a napkin calculation for the relative health risk of eating low calorie vs high calorie food, and which causes more problems for the general population and for the fatties on /fit/?
>>77514804>eating too much of any one food is generally a bad ideayou literally can not eat enough broccoli, beans, or berries. nobody has ever had "too much" of them. On the other hand, any amount of alcohol, meat, fried food, candy, etc is unhealthy, with an obvious dose-response relationship. Retarded ketolard.
>>77514795I doubt we have more than 1 autist excessively spamming about this, always using the same exact words and sentences.
>>77514799Dude you're the only retard who uses the word "ketolard," it's fine. It's more embarrassing to pretend it isn't you.
>>77514831why can't ketolards present a single study where increased meat consumption is associated with better health outcomes? why must they instead focus on a leddit boogeyman (whose points they also haven't refuted)?
Just imagine what he could accomplish if he just focused his retard rage on something productive! He could earn a minimum wage!
>>77514833what's your preferred pronoun, ketolard? ketotard? CICOjeet? murdervore?
this kills the ketolard.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVSD0hggZE
>>77514748Thanks satan
>>77514805Cool, I'll just take a low dose statin + ezetimibe AND continue to eat low carb.
>>77514835I doubt you can actually read any of the solid papers investigating how things alter ATP or the krebs cycle.There is a reason observational animal studies are the best we have for a lot of shit, and they're horrendously flawed when comparing to humans in exactly the same way as even mouse vs rat studies can produce extremely different results.People pick what they want based on perceived risks combined with heuristics and other experiential data formed from their personal lives observing others. Human perception is flawed.The other side of the coin is that there are vegans whose entire MO has absolutely 0 to do with health, they just follow a consequentialist ethical system where they're OK with doing things to attain their desired ends that others would find to be repugnant. For some it has to do with perceptions about the environment, for others it's because they view animals as moral agents (or otherwise ethically congruent with humans of low mental capability). So they're fine with attributing undue amounts of certainty to studies that support their desired conclusions. And in many cases, this has nothing to do with their true personal beliefs, but rather the fact that their peers award recognition and status for being an activist. Even if it only amounts to posting anonymously on a Nepalese Flower Arranging Communications Stack.
>>77514835How many times do i have to explain it to you, nobody cares you anemic and soft cunt.
>>77514866>how things alter ATP or the krebs cycle.mechanisticslop? yeah I'm not a biologist.>The other side of the coin is that there are vegans whose entire MO has absolutely 0 to do with health, they just follow a consequentialist ethical system where they're OK with doing things to attain their desired ends that others would find to be repugnant. For some it has to do with perceptions about the environment, for others it's because they view animals as moral agents (or otherwise ethically congruent with humans of low mental capability). So they're fine with attributing undue amounts of certainty to studies that support their desired conclusions. And in many cases, this has nothing to do with their true personal beliefs, but rather the fact that their peers award recognition and status for being an activist.>Even if it only amounts to posting anonymously on a Nepalese Flower Arranging Communications Stack.Is this supposed to be me?Moxyte grant me strength to tolerate these ketolards and their unscientific, bad faith, and immoral behaviour
>>77514882>"everyone who disagrees with me is a ketolard">he doesn't realize keto died as a trendy meme diet years ago>"immoral behavior">"mechanisticslop"Ah I was right. You don't actually give a shit, you just see science as a blunt instrument you can use to try to get your desired outcomes. Because you got nowhere by - and then gave up on - trying to convince people of your values.Your posts reek of poor self-esteem.
>>77514862is there medication that erases your visceral fat, atherosclerotic scarring/fatty streaks in your arteries, and makes you buff? You'll need that, too, ketolard.>For the first month, they were placed on a typical high-carbohydrate diet (50 percent carbohydrate; 35 percent fat; 15 percent protein), and then they were switched to a low-carb ketogenic diet (only 5 percent of calories from carbohydrate; 80 percent fat) for the second month. Both diets had the same number of daily calories. So, if a calorie is a calorie when it comes to weight loss, then there should be no difference in body fat loss on the regular diet versus the ketogenic diet. If Taubes was right, though, if fat calories were somehow less fattening, then body fat loss would become accelerated. What happened instead, in the very study funded by the Nutrition Science Initiative, was that “[b]ody fat loss slowed” upon switching to the ketogenic diet.>Switching to a ketogenic diet made them lose less fat mass and more fat-free mass; they lost more lean mass. That may help explain why the leg muscles of CrossFit trainees placed on a ketogenic diet may shrink as much as 8 percent. The vastus lateralis is your biggest quads muscle in your leg. Shrunk in thickness by 8 percent on a ketogenic diet.>One week on an 80 percent fat diet, and you can quintuple your blood sugar spike in reaction to the same carb load, compared to a week on a low-fat diet. Even a single day of excessive dietary fat intake can do it. If you’re going in for a diabetes test, having a fatty dinner the night before can adversely affect your results. One meal high in saturated fat can make the cause of diabetes—carbohydrate intolerance—worse within four hours.
>>77514885>You don't actually give a shit, you just see science as a blunt instrument you can use to try to get your desired outcomes.You're pretending to be scientifically literate, but you're not. If you were, you would realize that identifying and understanding specific mechanisms like how some specific nutrient affects the krebs cycle is not sufficient for health advice. You need intervention studies to prove an actual effect. Below that standard of proof, observational studies. FAR below observational studies are individual mechanisms. Salt is extremely important for the development of the brain--does that mean higher salt diets will raise your IQ? This is the shit mechanisticslop grifters (keto, etc) live off of. Understanding the individual mechanisms is not necessary to design an intervention study and conclude one way or another whether more salt leads to better or worse outcomes.Retard.Isn't it soooooo interesting how ketolards will debate me about ad hominem and epistemics but will NEVER EVER EVER produce a SINGLE intervention or observational study (whereas I've already referenced a dozen in this very thread).
Friendly reminder that pajeets are vegans. To agree with a vegan is to agree with a poo. To argue with a vegan is to argue with a poo. Disregard the vegapoo and let him roll around in his own shit
there are ZERO well designed studies proving meat is bad. none.
the only bad thing about keto is it makes so mentally healthy that you realize how many utter nutcases there are like op
>>77514902almost there...
>>77514748tldr doesnt matter if you raise meat prices to one gorillion dolllars ill continue eating pork chicken and rabbit whilst looking better than you. Please tie a rope around your neck and suspend yourself from a minimum 10 foot height
>>77514829>tfw humans have consumed meat for thousands of years and successfully passed along their genes whilst you will do no such thing whilst soience posting on an anime themed fitness enthusiast forum
>>77514956should I check the "I love murder" box, or the anecdotal evidence box?
>>77514967meant for >>77514954>>77514947so... there are zero well designed studies in all of nutrition science? I'm going to check the "science is a jewish psyop" box for that
>>77514894I already addressed that >There is a reason observational animal studies are the best we have for a lot of shit, and they're horrendously flawed when comparing to humans in exactly the same way as even mouse vs rat studies can produce extremely different results.It's extremely hard to do intervention and observational studies of humans. Its basically only highly accurate for confirming if things that have extremely strong, obvious, acute links, such as smoking, radiation exposure, or vitamin deficiencies. You can't lock humans in a cage for 50 years controlling every aspect of their lives to ensure the ONE variable you are changing about their diet is the smoking gun of long-term benefit/disease.Hence what I said:>People pick what they want based on perceived risks combined with heuristics and other experiential data formed from their personal lives observing others. And when I said "Human perception is flawed" that includes people doing the studies, people as test subjects within the studies, people interpreting the studies OR their life experiences, and people interpreting the effects on their own lives via acting on what they learned - from studies or otherwise.You keep acting as if the things you believe are far more certain than they actually are. Be a little more comfortable with uncertainty. Maybe try meditation.
>>77514769>Vegans have the highest life expectancy among an already extremely healthy cohort (adventists in California) and lowest risks of chronic diseasesHighest life expectancy of a 10 years old fad diet. Such high life expectancy that most people fucking quit because of chronic headaches and stomachaches, weirdly disappearing the moment they start eating like a human being again. Yes I know, they're being a vegan "wrong".Sage goes in all fields + kill yourself.
>>77514976>>There is a reason observational animal studies are the best we have for a lot of shit, and they're horrendously flawed when comparing to humans in exactly the same way as even mouse vs rat studies can produce extremely different results.>It's extremely hard to do intervention and observational studies of humans. Its basically only highly accurate for confirming if things that have extremely strong, obvious, acute links, such as smoking, radiation exposure, or vitamin deficiencies. You can't lock humans in a cage for 50 years controlling every aspect of their lives to ensure the ONE variable you are changing about their diet is the smoking gun of long-term benefit/disease.wow, so you think the entire fields of nutrition and epidemiology are inferior to rat studies! That definitely WREAKS of scientific literacy and expertise! Tell me, what's your favorite rat study that supports your murdervore habit? Any news on the telomere length debate?>>People pick what they want based on perceived risks combined with heuristics and other experiential data formed from their personal lives observing others.In a world where rat studies are the best ones available for human nutrition, that would be rational.>You keep acting as if the things you believe are far more certain than they actually are. Be a little more comfortable with uncertainty. Maybe try meditation.the balance of evidence is far more certain than you think it is. Be comfortable with modern statistical techniques. Maybe try reading some studies.Anyway you DEFINITELY check the "science is a jewish psyop" box
>vegans look like they're melting>carnivores look about to pop at any moment>people who eat normal diets look normalwhat could it mean?
>>77514866Am I reading a chatgpt post? You use a lot of words to actually say very little.
>>77514980>10 years old fad diet>announces sage>ketolardyou're not long for this world, bud
>>77514999Now I understand why people say you're mentally ill. Your replies don't make any fucking sense. Stay obsessed retard.
>>77514996"normal" in the US = chronically diseased and obese"melting" = healthy"about to pop at any moment" = chronically diseased and obese, or meltingfixed your post
>>77514951Post body
>>77515020bingo!
>>77515011How come it's ok to put rabid dogs down but it's not ok to lock up mentally ill retards in an asylum so they don't bother the rest of us?
>>77515021Not true. I may post body or maybe I won't. You'd have to sit on your ass for the next few hours to see
>>77514829>any amount of alcohol, meat, fried food, candy, etc is unhealthyYou have a midwit grasp of toxicology; as an example, the LNT model appears true for cancer from alcohol exposure, but all-cause mortality has a J-shaped association with only heavy drinkers at higher risk than abstainers, due to protective effects against conditions like diabetes, CKD, Alzheimer's and the flu.Similarly humans have no problem processing a few dozen grams of sugar; hundreds of grams cause insulin resistance.
>>77515032No intake of alcohol is safe
>>77514997No I'm just autistic. I have read how AI bots actually work and it's scarily similar to how I choose words to write though.>relatively littleBut the point is deconstructing the foundations he uses to try to say his shit, because arguing about surface issues is pointless.Now he's going apoplectic because I hit some nerves and he's stuck having to lash out with a refusal to steelman or act in good faith, coupled with moral condemnation. Because the latter is what it always was.I'm still trying to figure out the best way to deal with someone who, online, proclaims that disagreement means you deserve death. It's not actually a real threat of course, they are physically incapable of harming someone through the net. But it's just an interesting conundrum. Such people would probably lash out physically IRL, but online they're stuck typing and getting worked up because the conflict cannot escalate past insults.
>>77515041>I'm trying to win the argument by... not addressing any of the points, but instead psychoanalyzing and trying to address a strawman which I have labeled as his foundation>projects murderous desire and anger>more ad hominemYes, that will surely work better than providing an actual intervention or observational study showing increasing meat consumption in people who aren't malnourished 90 year olds leads to a positive health outcome, as I have been continuously asking for this entire thread.>>77515032>but all-cause mortality has a J-shaped association with only heavy drinkers at higher risk than abstainersthat's entirely untrue. But yes, there are J shaped *associations* (unadjusted for SES or other factors) where the far left of the curve reverses the trend. Things like cheese consumption in France, where moderate consumers tend to be higher class/income than non-consumers, who tend to be lactose intolerant african immigrants. No amount of alcohol has been shown to be beneficial under any reasonably controlled setting, and the proposed mechanisms like antioxidants in wine (less than that in grape juice) are farcical.>Similarly humans have no problem processing a few dozen grams of sugar; hundreds of grams cause insulin resistance.yes, but that isn't even the primary cause of diabetes in the US: saturated fat.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nujyif7MkMA
>>77514748Imagine living 1-2 years longer after an entire lifetime of missing out. lol what an absolute loser
Conor Murphy went back to eating meat and it made him go crazy and eventually led to his suicide. Coincidence? I think not.
>>77515058Vegans live about a decade longer than meatcucks. Cope
>>77515059yea it was the meat and not the steroids, cocaine, and psychedelicsunreal
>>77515055>Yes, that will surely work better than providing an actual intervention or observational study showing increasing meat consumption in people who aren't malnourished 90 year olds leads to a positive health outcome, as I have been continuously asking for this entire thread.The trick you have is that you use vague language. "Positive health outcome" allows you to sidestep any actual positive cases brought up. Your standards are a guessing game so you can reject anything anyone brings up.Because as you have already displayed in the thread multiple times: you DO NOT CARE. Someone could present a damning, solid study that shows that eating meat turns you into a gigachad and you would still say it's immoral to do so and lash out. You are trying to get people to engage with a thing you think you can easily use to browbeat them with because you KNOW you cannot reach them on the topic of your moral and ethical systems, as they are so opposed to you that they view you as an immoral person yourself, from a completely different grouping, and thus are immune to being shamed into compliance.And you know you cannot war with such people to get them to submit to your own ethics. So you try to go around the side door to get the results you want via rhetoric dressed in a labcoat. But that just makes you look like an insane retard, so you then have to flip again to trying to be smug and use shaming language. But shaming language doesn't work on people who view you as outgrouped from themselves, so you try to go around the side door... And round and round it goes.
>>77515041>I'm still trying to figure out the best way to deal with [him]Well you're wasting your time. He's not looking for an actual conversation, he's only pretending to. Going from that observation, the worst thing you can do to him is ignoring him. IRL you'd simply show him the door but the way he replies back spastically does not work outside an imageboard anyway.
>>77515058>missing outon what? mouth pleasure?Do you ever notice how obese people have absolutely terrible taste in food, going for disgusting fatty slop? Japanese people not enjoying the sweetness level of American processed foods? Pregnant birthing persons having bizarre cravings?Mouth pleasure from food is modulated by habit. A rural african tribesman probably craves nothing more than unseasoned stew or a fresh fruit, and would recoil in disgust from whatever you think he's "missing out on". If you have a functioning prefrontal cortex, you will experience food that makes you feel good as "tasty" and food that makes you feel bad as "yucky". And plant food is anti-inflammatory and alleviates depression, while meat is inflammatory and can induce brain fog.
>>77515055>yes, but that isn't even the primary cause of diabetes in the US: saturated fat.Why have I personally been able to reverse my insulin resistance by eating keto/low carb with a lot of saturated fat and relatively few carbohydrates? Serious question.Stats before: >Weight: 310lbs -> 188.7lbs as of this morning>HbA1c: 8.4% (July 2023) -> 4.9% (May 2026)>Fasting insulin: 64.8 uIU/mL (November 2023 )-> 6.0 uIU/mL (May 2026)Happy to provide any other stats or info.
>>77514748Shut up nerd. 50000 years ago our ancestors would chase down antelopes over days for some delicious meat. They'd gang up to kill mammoths and aurochs for delicious meat to feed their tribes. They invented bows and arrows to kill game that was far away to get some fucking delicious meat. The increased risk of disease from eating meat in the modern age is from all the goy slop they pump into the animals before slaughter and the carbon monoxide they spray the meat with to make it redder in the supermarket. Meat is fine. OP is Indian and wants to spread lies so that everyone else can be as short, brown and DYEL as they are.
>>77515083I will add I was eating high carb/medium protein/low fat for a couple of months earlier this year, had no issue whatsoever with high glucose or anything, and I was still losing weight because I was weighing food/counting calories. I just feel better and have better satiety on low carb so I went back.
>>77514748Okay post your S/B/D
>>77515060>What is survivorship biasWant to know how I know your wrong? Actuaries for life insurance companies don’t take meat diet into consideration. >>77515076“I happy with being unhappy and missing out st-st-stop te-te-telling me I’m not happy, I made this thread to not feel like a dorkazoid, y-y-you you Brute!!!!”That’s you, that’s what you sound like, like a sissy. Keep missing out, keep seething, keep coping
>>77515060PostBody
>>77515067>>77515075You're wasting your time because you refuse to engage in actual scientific argument and only want to write essays:>Because as you have already displayed in the thread multiple times: you DO NOT CARE. Someone could present a damning, solid study that shows that eating meat turns you into a gigachad and you would still say it's immoral to do so and lash out. You are trying to get people to engage with a thing you think you can easily use to browbeat them with because you KNOW you cannot reach them on the topic of your moral and ethical systems, as they are so opposed to you that they view you as an immoral person yourself, from a completely different grouping, and thus are immune to being shamed into compliance.which is A) entirely hypothetical and B) ad hominem/psychoanalytics/mind reading, rather than posting an actual study.>Someone could present a damning, solid study that shows that eating meat turns you into a gigachad and you would still say it's immoral to do so No, I wouldn't. I would have to concede what the study shows. For example, I concede that in malnourished 80 year olds, adding meat to a diet may be healthy, because it increases calorie density. This is how good faith debate works. You, on the other hand, are unwilling to engage with any of the science, and prefer schizophrenically armchair psychologizing a strawman of a bloodthirsty retarded vegan.>any actual positive cases brought up.which ones? I count 0 in this thread which were not addressed ahead of time by OP (malnourished octogenarians).>your standards are a guessing gameno, I'm extremely liberal. ANY positive health outcome from an observational or intervention. Reduced cancer, more muscle, reduced fat mass, lower depression. Any study. The fact you can't meet this exceedingly low bar of evidence and prefer to waste your time with these antics reflects poorly on anti-vegans.
>>77515088I want to be more clear about survivorship bias cus o know you’re dumbass will be confused.Oh course little sissy cucks will take every precaution they can to avoid anything risky enough to die. On that very very long list of “I’m scared” is changing their entire diet.Ergo people who live longer are more likely to avoid eating a balanced and enjoyable diet. Their bland grass only meals aren’t why they live longer, they live longer because they tediously suck all joy out of their life due to their hyper over the top fear of death.
>>77514748You will never belong here and you look like shit.
>>77515084This. why does meat and fat taste so good if it isn't meant to be eaten? why do we have a separate satiety signaling hormone exclusively for meat/fat (CCK)?I guess you could use the same taste argument for sugar, but that was only available for a very small window of the year in extreme latitudes for our (non tropical peoples) recent evolutionary history (last few dozen thousand years)
>>77515091>distractionsThe central point is your moral condemnation of people who eat meat.
>>77515091People posting this idiotic pyramid graph is the biggest red flag of two digits IQ.
>>77515036>No intake of alcohol is safe>>77515055Uh...>Alcohol consumption and all-cause and cause-specific mortality among US adults: prospective cohort study>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12916-023-02907-6>Compared with lifetime abstainers, current infrequent, light, or moderate drinkers were at a lower risk of mortality from all causes [infrequent—hazard ratio: 0.87; 95% confidence interval: 0.84 to 0.90; light: 0.77; 0.75 to 0.79; moderate 0.82; 0.80 to 0.85], CVD, chronic lower respiratory tract diseases, Alzheimer’s disease, and influenza and pneumonia. Also, light or moderate drinkers were associated with lower risk of mortality from diabetes mellitus and nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, or nephrosis.the tl;dr here is there is more important stuff for all-cause mortality than just cancer risk, and trading off extra tumors for lower rates of other diseases is usually worth it outside many cancer syndromes.
>>77515083>weight lossObviously because you're on a hypocaloric diet. I'm claiming you would have lost more fat and less water weight/lean mass and felt better if you replaced the fat with plant foods, even carbs. I don't base this on anecdotal experiences, but studies, like the ones I've referenced. Keto doesn't do what it claims to do. You would need some high tech equipment to actually measure the proportion of visceral fat vs lean mass vs water weight lost.>HbA1c and fasting insulinYou haven't necessarily reduced insulin resistance based on those numbers, you've simply cut out carbs. Keto is exceptionally effective at lowering your blood sugar, but saturated fat is still toxic to beta cell function and your liver. The question is how well you vs vegan you would respond to drinking a coke--based on the above research, you would have a worse blood sugar spike. That being said, losing fat mass on a hypocaloric diet ceteris paribus will reduce insulin sensitivity and lead to better outcomes. Statin drugs will also lower your diabetes markers without actually treating diabetes.>Now, for primary prevention, trying to prevent your first heart attack, no overall survival benefits have been found. Indeed, only one of eight studies showed that statins actually made you live longer, but presumably that’s because the studies only lasted a few years, and for low-risk populations, the risk of dying from cardiovascular disease in that time may just be a few percent anyway. But such trials do show fewer events, heart attacks and strokes. >But look, because statins increase our risk of diabetes, these drugs might give as many people diabetes as it does prevent them from having a heart attack or stroke. But the stat they cite is from a combination of primary and secondary prevention trials.
>>77515104no, you seem to be hallucinating. Have you taken your schizo meds today? Read OP if you would like to know what my central point is. You will notice that unlike in your posts, OP does not contain any moralistic language. Are you illiterate? Or schizophrenic?
>>77515113You digging up a single study doesn't negate tens of others saying no intake is safe AND increases all cause mortality
Ketospammer and veganspammer are the same person btw. It's a shut-in retard desperate for (you)s.
>>77515113That is a curious result, and does provide a cohort which falsifies my claim. However, meta analyses of many cohorts tend to show no significant difference between lifetime abstainers and light drinkers (adjusting for lifestyle choices and "sick quitters"), though the non--significant finding is still a J curve.https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2802963
>>77515021Studies mean nothing now.
>>77515146They mean something, but not necessarily what they purport to mean. Unreliable information is still information. A bunch of unreliable evidence more reliable the more homogenous different categories of evidence are in supporting the same conclusion. Google exclusion sensitivity analysis. You can't just say "there's academic fraud" and dismiss all of physics. Same principle applies to nutrition science, where the evidence is basically unanimous that veganism is healthier.Updated my bingo card.
>>77514951Lol based
Because it was avoided.Please tell me why actuaries for insurance companies take zero consideration in if their policy holders eat meat.Why is the most predatory and business designed to maximize profits ignoring this oh so detrimental element of their policy holders lives?Also as availability for meat has increased overtime, so has total expected lifespan for people? Never in history have so many people have access to so much meat, yet we live longer and longer. And I know you’ll say “medical science has advanced or hygiene and blah blah blah” that’s fine, the point I’m making is meat being “detrimental” is like one cup of salt in the ocean making it salty.
>>77515088>>What is survivorship bias Hahahahaha zoomie learned a new phrase and used it wrong. Maybe you stopped clogging brain with cholesterol you'd have learned what it actually means. Dumb fuck.
>>77514748
>>77515176Keking so hard right now>>77515094It’s like I’m babe Ruth pointing to my home runs
>>77515174If you mean why life/health insurance actuaries generally don't ask whether a policyholder eats meat, the main reason is that actuaries price risk based on factors that are measurable, predictive, legally usable, and practical to collect.It's a crude variable. “Eats meat” covers everything from occasional fish or chicken to heavily processed meat every day. The health implications are very different.Other variables capture much of the risk. Age, smoking, blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes, BMI, medical history, medications, and sometimes occupation and lifestyle factors tend to be much more directly measurable.Diet is difficult to verify. Someone's diet can change substantially, and insurers generally don't have a reliable, inexpensive way to verify what a person actually eats over time.Underwriting has legal and business constraints. Insurers can't simply use every conceivable characteristic that correlates with mortality. They have to consider regulations, fairness, discrimination concerns, available evidence, and whether a variable is commercially worthwhile.That doesn't mean diet has no effect on insurance risk. It means that “meat eater vs. non-meat eater” isn't necessarily a sufficiently reliable or useful underwriting category.There's also an important distinction between actuarial research and individual underwriting: actuaries absolutely can incorporate dietary patterns into mortality or morbidity models if credible data demonstrate that doing so improves prediction. They just don't necessarily translate every statistically associated lifestyle characteristic into an application question.If you're asking because you've seen evidence that vegetarians/vegans have different mortality or health-insurance costs than meat eaters, I can also explain why that evidence hasn't generally translated into lower insurance premiums.
>>77515181Omg he tried to chat GPT the answer lolHoly shit my sides
>>77514748do you have to wear a diaper yet?
>>77515184there is not a single intervention or observational study showing increased meat consumption in normal/overweight individuals (you)* leading to a better health outcome. Increased meat consumption is associated with and/or is known to cause:>higher rates of cancer>lower insulin sensitivity>lower life expectancy>atherosclerotic scarring in the heart (causes heart attacks and heart disease)>atherosclerotic scarring in the brain (causes stroke)>atherosclerotic scarring in the veins (causes diabetes)>diabetes>lower T
>>77515181This is unequivocally incorrectAs a practicing and successful actuary, I can tell you that we don’t ask the question because it’s not meaningful or irrelevant to our forecast and dataThere are a litany of other questions we ask that are ambiguous in nature and unmeasurable for instance, how many drinks you have a week how often you exercise your general activity levels all of these things are left up to interpretation is a drink an actual perfectly measured shot or am I asking Bubba just how many beer he chugs when he’s not 100% sureAgain your argument has a grain of truth in that by eating meat you are not choosing the most optimal, healthy, perfect path, but to go so far as to pretend like that slight deviation from perfection is detrimental in any meaningful way is laughable.Your entire premise is strawman and you are too much in your echo chamber to realize it so continue to enjoy your life less than how others would normally and continue to cope with your misery by lying to yourself and exclaiming that what you’re doing is the correct thing to doLike I stated the perfect analogy to your rationale is adding one cup of salt to the ocean will make it too salty
>>77515188Cope, seethe, suffer all so you can maybe eke out a few months more in your sad lonely life lol.Assuming you don’t get hit by a car or something.I honestly feel pity for you, that you are so consumed by a fear to eat meat that your body readily and evolutionarily accepts. That you would tip toe through life like some kind of sissy onions fat
>>77515187No, in fact, I should ask you that question.
>>77515197He wasn’t asking because of the diet.He was asking because a “man” like you most likely catches and catches a lot. So people likely hear you whistle when you walk, even as you drink a cup of water
>>77514748This thread AGAIN? You should channel this religious zealotry and fanaticism into something productive instead of shitting up reddit and 4chan.How about you start lifting with this fervor instead?
>>77515197nice list, thats the first time I have ever heard of that. because you made it up, everyone knows vegans shit thier pants bro. and we can spot you in the crowd because you look like you have aids
>>77515205He's a fat White loser, just like the keto spammer, and he physically can't do anything other than spam 4chan
>>77515196>sufferYes, delusional ketolard, not having diabetes or obesity and being in good physical and mental health = suffering because my taste buds aren't trained to crave bacon and ice cream every day.>>77515192>I can tell you that we don’t ask the question because it’s not meaningful or irrelevant to our forecast and dataSo, your data forecasting doesn't take into account modern nutritional science? Interesting. You should take your special data and publish it in a nutrition journal, clearly based on your authority as a 4chan actuary, you have something valuable to add to the conversation!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpk4pJkWqgU
>>77515208also for the record, i eat plants and meat. you are just as dumb as the carnivore people to me
>>77515215YO! FAT TIMMY! I can't take you seriously but I take you even less seriously when you post a disgusting looking rat jew>and I say this as a man with SIGNIFICANT Jewish ancestryI will eat both meat and fruits/vegetables like I already do
>>77515212>ketolards admit they're not whiteNo wonder you love slurs so much--non-whites tend to be more violent and racist.
>>77515215Strawman sure be stawmanning>If you pick up that pebble the whole beach will disappear>if you don’t turn off the faucet people in Africa will get thirsty>if you turn your car on next summer will be nothing but fire>if you eat meat your going to die!!!!!!What a little sissy fag lol
>>77515229Also Moxyte...Most Vegans on earth are Indian and the most vegan/vegetarian ethnicity is also Indian... followed by Pakistanis, Arabs, and Mexicans KLOK.
>>77515245I've been banned too many times from this board for racism to fall for your jewish tricks again. It's so weird how I get banned for racism, off topic, etc for the slightest infraction but people announce their sages and call me a wh*toid scott free. Mods must be ketolards.
>>77515245check.
>>77515143>>77515136The idea that ethanol toxicity has a J-shaped relationship with dosage isn't fringe; the main controversy is that the effect may be overestimated due mostly to people frequently quitting when they get health problems, sort of like with ice cream.>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acer.15299>Is low-level alcohol consumption really health-protective? A critical review of approaches to promote causal inference and recent applications
>>7751528238% of Indians are Vegan and another 40% are Vegetarians yt boy and AGAIN I do not eat a ketogenic diet and I never have(never would either)
>>77515257When autism gets too big, stop.Stop, Anon.
>>77515291100% of ketolards are spiritually indian>sar I must eating the poopmeat because only a mleccha will not eat it, it is part of my culture saaaarrrrr. Did you know there is research showing it is healthy? No do not trusting western science sar this is ancient hindu ketolard knowledge
>>77514784damn 1 post OP blown the fuck out
>>77515351Keto doesn't even have to be an all meat diet though you're talking about carnivores and honestly all 3 diets are a waste of time. You, moxyte, and the ketolard are still obese losers who spam 4chan all day everyday and both of you have supposedly been eating your fad diets for years
it taste gud tho
>>77515403>>77515359>>77515379Why are murdervores so intent on avoiding any scientific debate, instead focusing on irrelevant issues like ad hominem and Moxyte?
Dude it's 2026, not 2016. How tf can you still be vegan?
Moxyte got his ass blown out AGAIN
>>77515099Check'd em. I didn't even know there was a seperate hormone for meat satiety I just used my bottom of the bell curve grug instinct to know that meat=good and that I shouldn't listen to Reddit bug-men talking about whatever fag science reinforces their fag opinions. Meat is good and even better if you kill it yourself.
>>77514748I will just not pay attention to research topics that are ideologically charged (which is a lot of them nowadays).I don't have the means to replicate the studies and find out which ones are lying, so I will disregard all of them.Instead, I'll look at my own social circle, what they eat and what they look like, and make my decision based on that.And that judgement was not exactly in favor of low meat consumption.
>>77514777>The results suggest that a vegan diet does not seem to be detrimental to endurance and muscle strength in healthy young lean women>lean>women*Laughs, spluttering meat particles and BBQ sauce everywhere*
>>775157331. Moxyte exists only in your imagination2. No studies were presented which answered OP>>77516219>>77516325Anti science retardation does not prove anything
>>77516448>Anti science retardation does not prove anythingengineering gets shit done way faster than science, so I'll follow the "it just werkz" approach and let you cuck around with your onions diet for decades without going anywhere
>>77516480>I'll follow the "it just werkz" approach....veganism just werkz better than your strain of ketotardation though and there's scientific proofBy "it just werkz" do you mean you rely entirely on the anecdotal evidence of some random ketolard youtuber?
>>77516498Don't give a shit about keto butter drinkers, but every vegan I've ever seen has been a malnourished twig. Meat & Sweet diet for the win.
>>77516500Meat and sweet? What's the sweet part? Your boyfriend's ass? Queer.This is natty vegan famous rock climber Alex honnold. Is he malnourished, meattard?
>>77516509>rock climber>is only able to lift his own bodyweight>weighs 130lbskeek, dude looks like that Hollywood tranny, whatshername. The one that used to look pretty cute before she went crazy. Sorry, just not gonna stop eating meat. Ugh! I know! Just, not gonna!
>>77516518>Sorry, just not gonna stop eating meat. Ugh! I know! Just, not gonna!don't apologize to me, apologize to your arteries. No skin off of my back if you continue to be a lardass who doesn't pull pussy.
>>77516526>reeee muh pussylol so you're actually a woman, figures. Fuck outta here with your rabbit diet, babe. Post feet
>>77516532accusing me of being a woman wasn't on my bingo card. Congrats. Although I think that falls under the tranny category>babetrying to double dip in your meat and sweet diet, lardo? Sorry, this meat's only for HOT gurls.
>>77516536i can't believe you keep going. why not do something more productive with your time? you just keep seething, raising your cortisol even more and accomplishing nothing but giving me a chuckle.
>>77515445>Why are murdervores so intent on avoiding any scientific debateBecause debate is for Platonists and Platonism is a form of weakness.
>>77515084A lot of people think like this, but why does anyone expect the ideal human diet is a natural one? Just look at a hand written chart; do you correct a chart by shifting the columns after they are already written? This is more true and manifest when we look to computer systems or political systems.
It's not in their interests to produce such information.
>>77514769Veganism is bad and in no way would it improve my ability to build strength and muscle. It would lower my T to the level of a little girl and it would ruin my quality of life in every way imaginable.
>>77516840Nigga, why you talking about charts? Our bodies adapted and changed over thousands of years to eat other animals and when we don't do it we turn into massive faggots that won't shut the fuck up about not eating meat. There's a linear correlation between faggotry and veganism and you can't prove me wrong because I don't listen to Platonists.
>>77514748I don't give a fuck faggot dyel bitch
>>77516885Human evolution is gay. Nature is satanic. A natural diet is both of these things.
>>77516914>leftoid activist type defaults to christcuckery Can't wait until a reverse 2022 happens in November. Can't wait until exurban retards and bible/torah/talmud thumping/humping retards make up a super majority of working age adults in 100 years and put whatever little descendants you retards have into ""fat" camps"
>>77514748dude, this video's pinned comment is shilling that fat gay retard Dr Geiger or whatever his name isOne time I clicked on one of his clickbait videos and it was so monumentally retarded I had to come here to make a post about it, it had something to do with eggs being unhealthy. I read the study he referenced and to the surprise of nobody he made obviously false claims which the paper he cited did not allude to while shilling his website which is just a front for him to sell you garbage.how about you buy his books and shove em up your ass instead of coming here and spamming this unsubstantiated garbage
>>77514866well worded post, might want to use fewer syllables next time so that anons like >>77514997 may understand
>>77515076>birthing personWhat the fuck is this tranny neo-speak? Are you being ironic?
>>77514748I run a huge biohacking stack that addresses all of your boogymen with far bigger effect sizes than omitting meat. One of my latest additions is low-dose harmine as a putative DREAM complex inhibitor after reading...>Nat Struct Mol Biol. 2023 Mar 23;30(4):475–488. doi: 10.1038/s41594-023-00942-8>The DREAM complex functions as conserved master regulator of somatic DNA-repair capacities>https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10113156/
>>77516956I just use that word because I hate women
>>77516934What does this have to do with what I said?
>>77516969stfu you vegan subhuman I am tired of your (((religious dogma))) ENOUGH! Every time I hear leftoid bullshit I am reminded about how you retards took over the county offices of Nassau and Suffolk county for the first time in over 100 years in 2006 and the first two things you did were declare them both sanctuary counties and stopped enforcement of single family home zoning regulations. That directly lead to a flood of Hispanics into the county which increased competition for housing, in which said Hispanics flooding in would cram 2-3 families into a single family home, causing the median listing price to surge and continue to surge to nearly $900,000 in 2019-2021, 2019 in the case of Nassau and 2021 in the case of Suffolk, before the county began contracting and the (((GOP))) took over the counties again for the first time in 13-15 years but the damage was already done. I am reminded that you retards had a monopoly on the House and Senate for 80 years and how you retards controlled 36-42 state legislatures for 100 years, and even had a super majority under Obama on all levels of government and DID NOTHING BUT DISENFRANCHISE WHITE CONSERVATIVES AND MEN GENERALLY, make it harder to deport people, and bail out insurance companies with it. I can't even post on /pol/ anymore because it's 10 Trumptards, 12 DCCC/DNC interns, and 30 Arabs/Pajeets arguing with each other while posting about n*gg*r dicks and posting AI images shamelessly. You people from Vegans to rich White bitch with 3 degrees and an $80,000 car LARPing like she is in the handmaid's tale have ruined EVERYTHING. I won't tolerate this vegan shit fuck you. Eat your steak with potatoes/broccoli and watch how many calories you intake it's that simple.
>>77516937>One time I clicked on one of his clickbait videos and it was so monumentally retarded I had to come here to make a post about it, it had something to do with eggs being unhealthy. That is true. Eggs are unhealthy. This is backed by tons of papers. Even the pro-industry USDA disallows that eggs be labeled "healthy" or "nutritious" because of their saturated fat content.>I read the study he referenced and to the surprise of nobody he made obviously false claims which the paper he cited did not allude to [citation needed]>while shilling his website which is just a front for him to sell you garbage.The only thing he sells on his website are books, and he doesn't pocket the proceeds, he pays a full time research staff to help produce his books + videos. You must be thinking of Dr. Gundry, a ketolard, who sells name brand olive oil and makes millions off of his books.
>>77517044we already checked the "libtard" box. No need to continue.
>>77517181>>77516937https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNKMPBSZu7E&list=PL5TLzNi5fYd9lgvt0-8Oi9BIQ-jO2PBD3disprove even a single claim he made over 12 videos about eggs being unhealthy, retard.
>>77517044>I rape and murder because joe biden black rock incel bbc bill gates nature=goodUSDA industry NPCs are like this IRL
>>77517186https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5TLzNi5fYd9lgvt0-8Oi9BIQ-jO2PBD3
>>77514748>meat is unhealthy>shows pic of meat with a bun, sauce and vegetablesyeah, no shit. Remove the other crap and then run some studies on how bad meat is poindexter
>>77517300read the book nigga.Greger is an ideologue but your question is only asked by retards who have read nothing.
Looks like Moxyte is on his period again.
>>77517309Give me an example of him being an ideologue. Everything he does is purely in reference to science.
>>77517324Looks like ketoschizo is hallucinating Moxyte again, the retarded ketolard that he is.
>>77517186attach the study cited>>77517181>[citation needed]yeah, some studies you've cited you stupid fucking nigger>https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4418/10/7/477#This paper is 5 pages long, uses statistical analysis to deduce results from a sample size of FIFTY TWO and it doesn't actually control for how long the vegans have been vegan or what kind of diet the non-vegans have been eating and isn't limited to professional athletes (personally I'd presume if someone is a vegan and an athlete they would have better nutritional sense than the average Joe). I don't even think you've worked in academia
>>77517181>umm actually he isn't shilling anything, he sells uhh... books, yes, you do give him money for something which he advertises on his websites to which you are linked after watching his video on pseudoscience which he uses to make you concerned about your health, but he isn't shilling, OK!?
>>77517651>yes, you do give him money for something which he advertises on his websites to which you are linked after watching his videoall proceeds go to charity, ketolard. The books have 5000+ references, so many that to save paper he just gives you a QR code to a link with all of them at the end. How does this compare to your ketolard youtube health influencer pill shills and olive oil salesmen? (it doesn't compare favorably for ketolards.)>>77517644>This paper is 5 pages long, uses statistical analysis to deduce results from a sample size of FIFTY TWO ...Yes, small sample sizes are endemic to athletic studies, which is why statistical controls are needed. The p sizes are under 0.05, chud. I don't see any body of evidence refuting it, so until you present some, that is the balance of evidence in this thread: vegan athletes are better.>attach the study cited>do my homework for me>doesn't realize there are literally 50-100 studies cited over the course of 12 videos in his playlist about why eggs are unhealthy>still can't refute a single point he's ever made except by REEEEing about small sample sizesSorry, ketolard, that's not how this works. You made a specific claim which you now have to defend, and if you refuse to do so, you concede it, and I quote:>I read the study he referenced and to the surprise of nobody he made obviously false claims which the paper he cited did not allude toWhich if I'm honest, does not sound very likely, because the average 4 minute nutritionfacts video has like 5-10 study references. Here's an example from the first video in the playlist I linked of the studies cited (pic related).>https://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-and-breast-cancer/
>>77514951All of those are ultra based. By extension you are ubercringe.
>>77517943calling based vegans who drink nazibean milk "racist" is ultrabased? LARPing as an underweight 80 year old who needs extra calories to prevent themselves from starving (when in reality you're an obese 25-40 year old) is ultrabased?Not so fast, ketolard.
>>77516848The people shilling veganism on this board are aware of that; it's the whole reason they're telling you to be a vegan.
>>77518130No, I 100% believe veganism is healthy, would help you lose weight, and would ameliorate a ton of other problems (like abattoirs). You will likely never encounter someone who is as concerned as I am with the truth and actually cares enough to engage with you about it. This thread shows how low the discourse on this board is. I'm trying to clean it up. In a sense, I'm like a janitor.
>it's another 'I am dedicating my life to tell you about my dietary opinion' thread>Meat is unhealthyOk.>Vegans are basedOk.>Cancer, low t ect.Ok.You are right about everything, you won at life. Can you just fuck off now, and if you are up to, take ketolards, cicofags, pestocementarians, paleokikes and other faggots with you? Thanks.
stop replying to this retard's threads for fuck's sake
>>77514748Thinking about the time when me and my dad dreamt up the idea of an amusement park for fat people called “Obe-City” with snack stands between each ride and every ride had signs like “you must be this wide to ride this ride”. This idea was inspired by my aunt who could not fit on the rides.>t. fat vegan
>>77515257>wh*toid>falls for jewish-designed schemae designed to weaken him then defends it with extremist fervor to the deathIt tracks. Huh, I guess in this instance the guy on 4chan claiming to be white might actually be white.
I become super horny after I eat liver, so clearly meat is indeed good for me. Of course I will never deny the power of carbohydrates too but meat really gets me going. I think ideally you'd want to start your mornings eating bacon and eggs but later in the day eat fruits and grains.
>>77514829>you literally can not eat enough broccoli, beans, or berries. nobody has ever had "too much" of them.You definitely can. Lectins, oxalates, various goitrogens, etc. get WAY overhyped by ketoschizos, but they are absolutely real and will fuck your shit up if you do giga-tard-tier monodieting.Yes, even broccoli.>Health benefits and possible risks of broccoli – An overview>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278691511004364>Toxicity of glucosinolates and their metabolic degradation productsTill now there is only one case report of liver toxicity after intake of broccoli juice for four weeks applied for the treatment of obesity (800 ml/day, no description of extract preparation). Transaminases, aspartate aminotransferase and γ-glutamyltranspeptidase were elevated when the female patient was examined. After ceasing, transaminase levels returned to normal values within 15 days.tl;dr study food toxicology seriously enough that you don't overdose on something normally harmless
>>77519945>>it's another 'I am dedicating my life to tell you about my dietary opinion' thread>>Meat is unhealthy>Ok.>>Vegans are based>Ok.>>Cancer, low t ect.>Ok.>You are right about everything, you won at lifeAnother ketolard defeated! *tallies chalkboard *
>>77514748Literally do not care, meat is tasty and I will continue to enjoy it. You cannot stop me.
