Seriously you’d think that with all the hate for Adobe’s pricing that a proper FOSS project would spring up and always be the free variant that forces the professionals to always keep innovating like Blender for the 3D industry.But no GIMP seems to be trash and everyone just keeps holding breath for it to get better and a better FOSS doesn’t come out.Is this deliberate and Adobe somehow life supports this functional failure as a way to entice people to “give up” and use Adobe products?
>>108887881All they have to do is do what Photopea did and then expand on that. Simple by default, powerful when needed. Not the complicated mess they have going on
No, GIMP (and GEGL) is very powerful and has lots of potential. There's obviously something wrong with the leadership/organization of the project though since they spent the last decade trying to port to GTK 3.
>>108887893That’s why I believe that GIMP is controlled opposition by Adobe.Maybe I’m onto a scheme that has been done for a long time and has a term but I don’t know it.Do you think the KDE project would get on this?>KDE releases new Krita fine tuned and modified for photo editing instead of drawing Or just click a button on Krita and you have your photoshopping part of it and tools?Never used Krita only just skimmed it once I think.
I really like GIMP and I don't get what the fuss is all about
>>108887893Photopea should've been a proper program.
>>108887913Gimp is great for what you pay for but it is not above criticism.It is mostly unrealized potential.That’s The problem.
>>108887881what's stopping (you) from forking it or creating an alternative from scratch? you could even vibe-code one, you literally have no excuses left in 2026.
You have no idea what you are talking about.In 2004 Gimp was the alternative to Photoshop in the graphic design forums I would frequent.Chances are you don't even use Photoshop for it's true potential, it is an industry tool and no cropping some shitty memes for a YouTube video isn't using Photoshop.Gimp is what you use if you're not a worthless pirate.
>>108887951I don’t want to try as I fear letting people down and harming the foss community with another failure that keeps gimp on top.>>108888000This isn’t 2004.I will admit I fear getting malware or Trojans on a Linux so I don’t pirate.I would if I knew how to safely do it.
I use it to make meme pics of gacha characters and so it works for me. sorry you are so needy and unhappy with what you get for free.
>>108888035>as I fear letting people down and harming the foss community with another failureoh, you're underage.
>>108887905>...>Anonymous>05/23/26(Sat)15:50:53 No.108887905>GIMP has lots of potentialAny day now, it can finally draw a circle.
>>108887881ok, let's imagine adobe does that. where that leaves krita? never installed gimp on this machine btw, krita is sufficient for my image editing.
>>108888047I generally used it to make memes and edit images. But whenever I tried to use it for anything professional things just never worked out even when I was using gimp over ten years ago.Sunk cost fallacy and being too cowardly to pirate is what makes me keep using it.But the again I never tried Krita so maybe it has better photo editing tools than gimp before plugins are taken into consideration.>>108888071Worse I’m pushing 28 and Canadian.
>>108888119>pushing 28then don't act like if you were 14. there's a good chance your gimp alternative won't even be known by anyone else... who knows, there might be half a dozen unknown alternatives already.
GIMP is fine, I've used it for the last decade. The issue is you don't want to learn it. Learn GIMP or fuck off.
>>108888204this. gimp is fucking amazing, actually. back in my winblows peasant days I picked it over photoshart, and my choice was vindicated many times ever since
>>108887881no its just bad software, same as freecad when compared to solid
>>108888112Yes it can. You just have to use the scripting interface (GEGL).So the question is what are these people doing that's more important than adding a basic shape tool button?
>>108887881Yes. It also was likely forked from a very old version of PS.>>108887905>There's obviously something wrong with the leadership/organization of the projectThey're obviously being held by the balls.
>>108888119I just started using gimp again after just on-and-off for the last 20 years, and in this case it was professionally. It’s not that bad now, the UI seems snappy and mostly well designed.I’m pretty sure you can configure the key shortcuts to be like PS if can’t learn new keystrokes. People don’t realize it’s configurable to some degree.> can’t draw a circleI just did this with the bezier tool and I’m no expert at gimp specifically… I’m pretty sure complainants are maybe at mspaint levels of understanding.
>>108887881>>108887909I thought I was the only one with this schizo theory. I think its why self sabotaging trannies are so common in FOSS. Its deliberate, they are like bio weapons.
>>108887881GIMP is actually decent. I've used the GIMP to win multiple competitions in multiple categories on 99designs against 20+ Adobe paypiggies at a time per competition.You have a skill issue. You suck at design. You suck at art. It's not the tool that is the problem.
>>108889607post designs>crickets
>>108888000clueless, delusional reddit spacing faggot
>>108888204why didnt I need to "learn" affinity photo?
>>108887881What a dumbass takeGimp is eminently usable, even if a bit weird. Actual controlled opposition is mozilla, and the difference is pretty obvious if you have half a brain
I think gimp is a pretty capable software but it should stop being advertised as a "photoshop alternative" because it still lacks some essential features for advanced editing. The developers are just doing their own thing and aren't really aiming to make a photoshop clone. Also it's pretty evident no designer has ever worked on it. The workflows are sometimes abysmal.
>>108887909>has a termsaboware = sabotaged software/hardware
>>108887905Post more shit pictures of gegl recreating 90s alienskin demos no one is actually impressed by, and most people are repulsed by how ugly gegl is please
>>108888179Not him but at 14 I might have considered it a real possibility. Now at 30 I know it wouldn't even have a chance to work unless I spend all my free time on it and I don't want to do that. You won't make a Photoshop alternative by working 2 hours a week.
>>108888204This but you don't even have to fucking learn it if you know photoshop already. You can literally just get the Photogimp fork and it's basically just photoshop's UI over Gimp.
>>108887881Maybe. At this point someone would already have vibecoded a better FOSS Photoshop, but no.
>>108887893Why is Photopea not FOSS? Why is the dev a gatekeeping bitch?
>>108888000>the millions of people that use adobe instead of gimp are "worthless pirates"
>>108890490>You won't make a Photoshop alternative by working 2 hours a week.you could also just fork gimp and make a new UII won't do that because I'm more than satisfied with gimp (2.10)
>>108887881I started the meme that Gimp is a troll program to see how far people would defend open source software and I think the controlled opposition angle could be part of it as well.I've used corel paint, photoshop, krita, photopea and many others without issues but gimp is super infuriating and the most unintuitive thing to use unless you autismmax
>>108887881you know what, i'd do a kickstarter pitching PIMP to fork and completely overhaul GIMP's UI/UX into something not complete liquid dogshit if i thought there would be interest in it
>>108887913That's because you are retarded>>108887931Your time must be worthless because using gimp makes everything take longer, krita is also free and doesn't waste your time.>>108888218Here is an example of someone who autismmaxxes, I bet the stuff you make with gimp are dog shit ugly. Everything I have seen come out of gimp has been a crime against aesthetics, which is normal because autist can't understand visual language the same way they can't understand emotional language.
I like gimp but their new changes to how pasting in stuff works is really annoying. the fact I have to change settings to make software I've used for so many years work how it used to is so stupid it pisses me off, they remind me of Mozilla with their stupid forced changes
>>108887881Why does the logo have three eyes?
>>108893746Open source gimp "designers" don't understand aesthetics and art direction
>>108887881now that krita exists, why continue to pay gimp to suck?
>>108894741Krita is bad too.
>>108894747People actually use krita and with photoshop being a subscription model + shoehorning AI into everything, I don't think adobe is smart enough with their finances to make gimp or krita controlled opposition.Do you use clip studio paint btw?
I still use Macromedia Fireworks
>>108894770>Do you use clip studio paint btw?Yeah.
>>108894747Yet it's still a million times better than gimp
>>108887881>people should just work for free like literal slaves to give me good software because they just should
>>108895194True.
>>108887881How often do you need to draw a non-raster circle or make non-destructive edits to text? I've been using GIMP my whole life and it's fine.
>>108890055Reddit didn't invent line breaks. The actual Reddit spacing is NOT having line breaks, because Redditors are used to hitting Return only once to break apart thoughts. If you look at any 4chan thread from 2007 (ie before you were born) such as picrel, you will see line breaks abound.
>>108887893>>108887909>All they have to dodamn, if it's that easy why don't you do it? you can just fork it.
>>108895213>people work for free and do a bad job on purpose so you are encouraged to buy a massive shit eating corporations subscription based product instead
>>108895268All the time and I'm sorry for your shitty life.
>>108895279shhhh don't educate the newfags. It's good when they fall for this meme because it outs them.
>>108895279cope. those are paragraphs with multiple sentences. you used reddit spacing.
>>108887881"Industry" people will never move to it, so no point in catering for them. And for average people who just wants to edit images it's perfectly fine once you get past the "this is not a carbon copy of Photoshop, I'm scared!" phrase.
>>108895359>for average people who just wants to edit images it's perfectly fineDo you just come here to lie?
>>108895375Sorry. I should have clarified: For average people without severe developmental disabilities who just wants to edit images.
>>108895344Let's try 2004, then.
>>108895436idgaf. i don't worship oldfags. in fact the longer you have been in this shithole, the less i respect you.
I get a lot more done with gimp when I combine it with inkscape and other tools.Plugins are also pretty useful.
>>108895452Sounds like Reddit is your preferred website :)
>>108894747This.While I massively prefer Krita, some of it is genuinely fucking terrible.Their brush editor is fucking aids.Their animation tools are fucking aids.I made a whole ass fucking animation system just to get away from Kritas shitty animation docker holy FUCK.Don't even get me started if you want to use transform masks with the animation system, dear god man what a disaster.The animation timeline, suicidally bad, hands down worse than the entire GIMP project combined.The fact the program can't even remember settings properly annoys the shit out of me. I'd quite like if you remembered my fucking gif export settings, cunts.Not to mention resizing a canvas while editing an animation, completely at random it will keep the ORIGINAL dimensions in the animation rendering UI, instead of the resolution of the current canvas. Don't get me started on other bugs, I could octuple the words in this post, jesus fuck what a buggy piece of shit Krita is.In the end, it's still not GIMP and that makes t better automatically.But you're still talking about comparing runny shits with rock-solid shits, runny is objectively better but it's still shit.
>>108895518can i say nigger on reddit?
>>108887881It's made by autistic feetfags.
>>108889112>It also was likely forked from a very old version of PS.Forked doesn't mean what you think it means
>>108895314>im pretending to be retardedyou're a reddit spacing faggot and no amount of coping will change that
>>108895397Why are you still lying?Normies HATE gimp with a passion. The only people that can use gimp are turbo autist trannies like yourself.
>>108895583>tranny newfag is triggeredlol, lmao even
>>108887881someone just needs to do complete redo of the UI and streamline tool usage, that's it.gimp already has everything built in, it's just packed in moon logic.
>>108888112>>108888488is it really gimp at fault?
>>108895941>4 actions to create a circleYes, absolutely
>>1088880352004 was better
>>108895952use inkscape
>>108895952first 2 actions made a circle latter 2 action made it a donut
>>108895941
>>108896049Oh no! How will gimplets ever recover?!?!
>foidposter keeps seething on cooldowntalk about rent free. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>108896104Jesse
>>108896049use case?
>>108896252being productive, a concept that is alien to fosstards
>>108887905yes pretty much>>108888488its a syntax that can be converted into filters with a GUI
>>1088878811) no. It's part of the GNU project, so it's definitely not Adobe controlled.2) most of what you can do with Photoshop you can do with the GIMP. The feature overlap has gotten smaller over the years, but mostly because of Adobe intentionally making Photoshop plugins incompatible with the GIMP. They used to work just fine. Prior to the transition CS and monthly subscription pricing, you could load any Photoshop plugin and brush in the GIMP. You can still use the brushes, thankfully, but not plugins. 3) There ARE FOSS options such as Krita that work great as Photoshop alternatives. 90% of my design work is now done on a Galaxy Tab with full Wacom digitizer and 4096 levels of pressure in my pen. The android tablet version of Krita is identical to the desktop version. Something Photoshop doesn't have. The Android version of Photoshop is too phone-focused and doesn't do anything a gallery app from a $40 chink phone can't do.
The only really unique thing about GIMP is the third party plugin system that allows infinite potential with custom made non-destructive filters. Other then that its like Adobe from 2003-2007.Just make sure to use it with gmic, my plugins, Flawscrew's, gegl gmic port, James H's rembg tool and the useful tools Yousei3D has madehttps://github.com/LinuxBeaver?tab=repositorieshttps://github.com/LinuxBeaver/LinuxBeaver/releases/https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21635https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21412https://gmic.eu/https://github.com/flatscrew/gmic-gegl-pluginhttps://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22164https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22153https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21535also this guys gegl plugins who blatantly used my plugin namehttps://github.com/Akascape/gegl-experimental-effectsand bootchk's AI gegl pluginshttps://github.com/bootchk/geglFilterExamples/But desu, we are in the year 2026 and AI editing has deprecated everything. The only thing I do is use my offline workstation with GIMP 3.0.5 from late May 2025 and block out the outside world. >>108895552>>108895583>>108895717>>108889355you have been reported to the antifa hotline>>108895397that sounds exactly like my gig, pretend the foss community is a bunch of intellectually stunted adults at a special needs daycare center.>>108890409ok, I don't see how this is repulsive.
>>108896504>Just make sure to use it with gmic, my plugins, Flawscrew's, gegl gmic port, James H's rembg tool and the useful tools Yousei3D has made>https://github.com/LinuxBeaver?tab=repositories>https://github.com/LinuxBeaver/LinuxBeaver/releases/>https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21635>https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21412>https://gmic.eu/>https://github.com/flatscrew/gmic-gegl-plugin>https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22164>https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22153>https://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21535>also this guys gegl plugins who blatantly used my plugin name>https://github.com/Akascape/gegl-experimental-effects>and bootchk's AI gegl plugins>https://github.com/bootchk/geglFilterExamples/You're a legend mate
https://github.com/LinuxBeaver/GEGL-GIMP-PLUGIN_Radiance/releases/Make any complex colored transparent image brightly glow and choose between aura only or aura and bloom.
>>108896538thanks, but outside of making new occasional GEGL plugins every few months my adventure with GIMP is done.
>>108888035>This isn't 2004And GIMP is not "controlled opposition".>>108890055Eat my whole ass, you have been shown multiple times that "reddit spacing" is a personal preference.
>>108893171Photoshop is the most pirated software, maybe second to actual windows itself.
>>108896871shilling trash foss seems to be a personal preference as well
>>108891266This is it.GIMP is for photoshop users who aren't doing professional work
>>108896892>Completely free software that fulfills a non-profit operation to the gills and then some>Trash talks itMaybe you are the ungrateful one then, feel free to hand your shit over to me.
>>108896909why would I be grateful for a shitty free sandwich?
>>108896925Because if you had no sandwich you'd beg for it?
>>108896944no, not everybody is a pathetic bitch like you
What's the best way to learn photoshop quickly? Also what's the best version to pirate?
>>108887881submit pr
>>108887881just use imgmagick scripts
>>108896965Wow you sure won this argument, you are clearly happier than when you started swearing at a random internet person.
>>108897173I didnt ask for a concession but I'll take it
>>1088971006.0
>>108887881>Is this deliberate and Adobe somehow life supports this functional failure as a way to entice people to “give up” and use Adobe products?Even if it was, it doesn't matter now that Affinity became free for everyone to download and use last October. I would estimate it has about 95% of Photoshop's feature set now and many features Photoshop doesn't have.
>>108897260You're a fucking bitch lmfao
>>108887881Krita is the Photoshop clone of FOSS. Blender is the Cinema4D clone of FOSS. Both of those things at least get some funding and their maintainers understand USE CASES.GIMP is some neckbeard weirdness.
>>108897282Maybe I'd use it if it were on Linux.
>>108897284damn I really got you riled up didnt I? must be hrt side effects
>>108897398You've been butthurt here for over twenty-four hours because you're an underage election tourist who thinks line breaks were invented by Reddit and trannies.
>>108897457>xer still maldingall because i badmouthed your foss garbage
>>108895568I wasn't 100% certain of the meaning when I posted the comment and anticipated an anon replying that I misused the term. I just checked and I feel less uncertain. What? Should I be pedantic and say that it was ported also?
>>108889112>>108897688It is quite literally impossible that GIMP was forked from an old version of Photoshop. It is also blatantly obvious that GIMP is not a port of an old Photoshop release. You are completely retarded, and you must go back.>>108887881GIMP is an amazing tool when you remember that its primary focus has always been to be a GNU [GPL-licensed] Image Manipulation Program. The idea of it being a 1:1 Photoshop clone has always been wishful thinking on the part of users.
>gimp is an amazing tool if you dont expect it to be goodwhy are fosstards like this?
>>108897807Believe it or not, but the vast majority of computer owners do not use Photoshop.
>>108897839i dont give a shit what the vast majority of computer owners do with their daily lives, gimp is still trash and so its most foss
>>108887881An alternative collection of pro apps is here to take on Adobe Creative Cloud, and you can use all of these legally for free. https://affinity.studio/https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolvehttps://www.maxon.net/autographhttps://cavalry.studio/
>>108896504For comparison, this is alienskin circa 1997
>>108897973Crying about inconsequential opinions that you have irrationally become emotionally invested in won't change the facts. 1. GIMP is a highly capable image manipulation program. 2. For most people, even software as simple as Pinta, Paint.net, or Seashore is too complicated. 3. Basically, you're retarded. Thanks. Hopefully you can find someplace else to vent about whatever it is that's bothering you.
>>108898197blablabla your software is trash and this has been the consensus since its inception by everybody who doesn't cosplay as women
>>108898318>irrelevant gibberishFair enough. I accept your concession.
>>108898393that's the entire subject of the post. you'll never be a woman
Saying gimp is controlled opposition is too easy. No, gimp is just naturally shit
>>108898440Yes, your post was irrelevant gibberish, and no, I will never be a woman. Thank you for acknowledging these facts.
>>108898197You are the type of person who inspired my meme that gimp is a troll program that will prove that open source zealots will defend any software to death no matter how bad and awful it is just because it's open source. Imagine how much better open source would be if you people could be honest, objective and take your heads out of your asses.
>>108900163The only fact you need to acknowledge is how objectively bad and dog shit gimp is to use.
>>108901044GIMP hasn't prevented me from creating the images I need.
>>108901044Seconding this guy>>108901080GIMP is awesome, I've used it since 2.6, I've made lots of 4chan OC with it, and it's a fun program. I used to post on the GIMP forums too. Wibby is also cute.Don't like GIMP? Don't use it then, but the issue isn't with GIMP, it's you.
>>108901033>>108901044Dubs of deceit.
>>108887881What is the actual functionality people are expecting to see out of it? Does it do it poorly, buggily, differently? There is that foss circle copypasta (which is hilarious), but I have no fucking clue what's the industry that needs image editing alone but doesn't have more specialized software. Artfags that spend 10 minutes sketching and 10 hours rendering? Graphic designers that don't know about vector graphics? Pretty sure even photo people have dedicated retouching tools.>t. guy who only needs crop and move to make dogshit reaction images
>>108897730>GIMP is an amazing tool when you remember that its primary focus has always been to be a FOSStard toy project. The idea of it being a useable tool has always been wishful thinking on the part of users.Okay? Maybe they should have chosen a non retarded goal?
>>108895294shut the fuck up idiot. The UI is already a standardized thing, the GIMP software already contains the necessary power. It just needs to be rearranged
>>108895523I also vastly prefer Krita over Gimp for simple edits even though Krita is made for drawing. Really says a lot that a drawing app is better at image editing than Gimp.Still there are crazy bad UI in some places that never got updated in decades. The text tool was so insanely bad but recently they finally made it better.And there are weird bugs with canvas resizing where some effects use the old canvas size which makes them cut off in the middle of the image.Other than that it works fine for me but I only do very simple things with it. Gimp is a complete disaster and all FOSS apps have criminally bad UI and bugs. The only redeeming quality is that it is free (free as in 0 cost not the retarded ideology) otherwise no one would use it.
>>108901080>>108901095I can make sculptures out of shit but that doesn't make shit a good sculpting medium, unless you're indian or something.
>>108901635Except the end image isn't shit; you can byte-for-byte produce the exact same results. Pixels aren't shit, lol.
>>108901646>you can byte-for-byte produce the exact same resultsso you draw circles pixel-by-pixel?
>>108901718No: I use the circle select tool, fill it with the paint bucket tool, and move on with my life.
>>108887913The program is counter-intuitive
>>108901646I consider gimp pixel to be shit. I see gimp users the same way I see indians, delusional and retarded.
>>108901729>move on with my life.we all know you don't have a life lol
>>108887893>All they have to do is do what Photopea didSo turn Gimp into a browser "app"
>>108887881It's not because gimp is not usable even with that addon what supposedly makes the key binds to match photoshop (it doesn't). Fundamental issue with Gimp is that it's simply retarded.>draw a mask>then use move tool>it moves the background layer instead of the maskWho the fuck created this?>use contrast tool>it has a strange rounding or clamping error, a near zero value crushes blacks>use curve tool - this doesn't happenI only use gimp because I'm too lazy to install photoshop in Wine. I'd probably use Nuke if there still were linux cracks for recent versions but I haven't seen any. Don't what happened with that, maybe they are using a dongle setup these days.
>>108887881Krita is and will always be better than foot image manipulation program
>>108897282>now that Affinity became free for everyoneIt's """""""""""""free""""""""""" because it sells all your fucking data. The server calls at runtime are INSANE.
>>108887881No, FOSS software is just naturally bad. In the early days of free and open source, companies were shitting their bed because they thought people will just make free alternatives to their software and make them obsolete. But they vastly overestimated the ability of those people and it ended up being no threat at all. After all, who in their right mind would spend their life making a complicated piece of software while getting nothing in return? No sane person does that so the whole FOSS space is infested with deranged lunatics who are too incompetent to get a job at those companies. Combine that with extreme narcissism and lack of social skills and you get the shittiest software on the planet made by the most insufferable people you will ever meet.The only time open source has worked is when it was backed by large companies. The best example is Linux itself. Linux is exclusively funded, developed and used by the biggest companies in the world and not some random guy in his mom's basement. That is the whole reason why the split between Free Software (bad) and Open Source Software (good) even happened. They cut off the mental illness.Also why the fuck would someone use garbage like Gimp when there is professional software like Affinity that is completely free?
>>108901825It's free because Photoshop cut off the average, non professional user with their insane prices. So they made Affinity free in order to take away those users from Adobe and create a mindshare of their product. Those free users will later become professional users that pay. Otherwise they would use pirated Photoshop and later become paying Adobe customers. It's as simple as that.>It's """""""""""""free""""""""""" because it sells all your fucking dataSelling what lmao? "Anon used the paint brush to draw a circle. Quick, write that down! Advertisers will love this data!"
>>108890409I wasn't the anon that originally replied to this. They were getting their opinion from me. Either they were larping as me or I convinced them GEGL was based.>>108898133yes, I have cross overs with that but I go beyond..FOSS anarcho communist clown girls with honky horns are going to overthrow the united states federal government soon, here is a GIMP plugin they endorse.https://github.com/LinuxBeaver/GEGL-GIMP-PLUGIN_RGB_GLITCH/releases
>>108887881We have Photopea.Gimp is absolute garbage trash and always was.
>>108901574>It just needs to be rearrangedthen "just" do it, you fucking idiot. literally what is stopping you?why do you feel it's someone else's responsibility to create free shit that you specifically want?
>>108896387this...
it looks better when it applies to the whole image and not just a segment. But it still doesn't matter because all you have to do is ask AI to make a killer glitch effect and it btfos the traditional methods.
>>108902076gimp is trannyware confirmed
>>108902105look kitsch and gaudy. Gimplets don't understand aesthetics and art direction which is a surprise to absolutely no one.
If you have tried this in GIMP it would literally explode.
>>108902118This image is not me making traditional manual edit glitch effect to the best of my ability. It did not involve painting and pixel manipulation tools in GIMP.It is a filter I developed that chains many independent GEGL filters internally and it applies to all pixels uniformly in a layer. On certain pixels the glitch effect looks better, on others it looks shabbier or over done, it doesn't discriminate. These are traditional filters doing image manipulations operations, that's the way all traditional filters function even Adobe's. They don't look good everywhere and its the users job to segment layers and use layer effects and have better aesthetic al taste then me. >>108902110yes it is and that is based. But desu its software for anyone who isn't a bigot loser.
>>108887881Did the trannies port GIMP to rust already?
>>108902176hahahahahaha good question i hope they do it would crash every single time.
I'm using affinity, it works...But sometimes you have to fight against the tool to make it do what you want.Photoshop is much more intuitive, but CS2 no longer works well on the latest windows.
>>108902098holy shit hang your self please. you dont need to be a codemonkey to see bad design. GIMP has a team and if they want more users and funding they need to remake the UI.
>>108902292>GIMP has a teamno it doesn't, retard. sporadic contributors are not a team. there's like one or two core devs.>if they want more users do they? what do they get out of it? it's not a for profit org.>fundingwhat funding? how much have you provided? do you have any idea how much devs cost in the real world?why don't you just fuck off and use Photoshop if you like it so much?I used gimp before I used Photoshop and and don't see what the huge issue is.the UI could be nicer but's certainly not a blocker.it's completely fine for the $0 that I invested.
>>108902373>gimp is made just for the sake of making it and not for people to actually use.Thank you for being honest for once.Show your work. I know you won't because it's dogshit.
>>108902452I don't work for free, retard. I'm just not a hypocrite like you and expect other people to.
>>108902468also I'm a dev, not an art fag. that's why it's so laughable to watch you idiots demand free dev hours when I know how much that actually costs.
>>108902468It's dogshit then, got it.
>>108902479
>>108902468Cooooope, cope, cope coooope cope...
>stallman is jewishPLAYING BOTH SIDES AS USUAL
>>108901729>and move on with my life.nobody with a life uses gimp let alone consider it good
>>108901866>Also why the fuck would someone use garbage like Gimp when there is professional software like Affinity that is completely free?wasnt free until very recently but even then the 40-60 bucks life license was well worth not having to deal with retarded foss ever again
Photopee PR team doing overtime itt
>cmd+f>"pixi">0/0https://github.com/PixiEditor/PixiEditor
There is nothing wrong with GIMP though? I too thought GIMP was unusable trash until I figured out that 9 times out of 10 if I can't figure something out, it's just a bug in the software and I need to find the workaround. Most things that you would want to do are actually pretty obvious in the UI, the problem is the UI is broken and you need to close and restart the app or do things in a very specific order so it doesn't break.People need to stop thinking of FOSS projects as "the free version of _______" because "________" usually works fine out of the box. It's more like a kludge/concept art piece that could potentially work, and actually does work if you treat it as a timesink hobby.tl;dr GIMP is not "free photoshop" it's a proof of concept
>>108902166>rGb gLiTcHAlso simply known as chromatic aberration
>>108903182>there is nothing wrong except for all the things that are wrong also its good if you dont expect it to workthe absolute state of fosstards
>>108903177>no vector shapesto the trash it goes
>>108903119>consider
>>108903182Yes which is why I said back in 2004, GIMP was used by actual graphic designers who were making things of actual value or use.Do you think you need photoshop to make a banner for a state fair? No you used fucking Gimp.
>>108891653>gibsmedatfofreewhy are you like this
>>108903344Why is freedom bad?
>>108902286A mod got triggered by this post and gave me a warning. Tranny mods will never be women nor good at technology. Fucking gimplets are so thin skinned because no one likes their so called drawing program that was made just to troll people into defending open sores no matter how shit it is.
>>108889705and dox myself? no thanks
>>108903580>more excusesJust keep reporting me so I get banned because that's the only way you can win arguments, good ole fascism.
I think one of the best examples of GIMP capability today is Joschua Knüppe a.k.a. Paleostream.https://www.youtube.com/@joschuaknuppe5849/streamshttps://www.deviantart.com/hyrotrioskjan/gallery
>>108903629i'm not posting my professional work to this site
>>108903657No one does professional work with gimp lol
>>108903692Well now freelance graphic design is dead probably not. But 5 years ago? Yes they did.
>>108903727He's having an autistic meltdown, let him be.
>>108887881The alternative to Adobe isn't GIMP it's AffinityIt even looks like Photoshop used to.
>>108903727All you have done in this thread is lie. Have you no shame?
Unlikely, the vast majority of foss products are just that badly managed.
>>108903727>But 5 years ago? Yes they did.only in your fiction
>>108903784If you love photoshop so much why don't you marry it
>>108888112usecase for drawing a circle?
>>108903794>he can't think about anything else but photoshopthis is why nobody takes you foss cultists seriously, it's all about childish tribalism with you
>>108901927Your mistake is thinking this is only tracking what you do in the software itself and not scanning your whole machine
>>108903806Shut up man, fucking embarrassing.
>>108903836>cultist is madi'm sorry your entire identity revolve around defending shit softwares with your life. softwares that you dont even use for anything productive, of course.
>>108887881>GIMP seems to be trashTranslation : OP is braindead.
Photopea being webshit is one of the biggest tragedies on linux, tried gimp, krita and more but photopea is the only actual similar thing to PSEvery time I use GIMP it makes me wanna ack myself, yes I ended up using it even when I fucking hate it
>>108903847Don't do anything stupid man.
>>108904006>tranny projectioni'm sorry your entire identity revolve around defending shit softwares with your life. softwares that you dont even use for anything productive, of course.
>>108903692I do?
>>108904031Prove itSpoiler alert! You won't because you don't We have been through this a million times and it's getting tedious.
>>108903547What did I misst. ranny appreciator
>>108903182>9 times out of 10 there is a bug that needs workarounds>the UI is broken>you should treat it as a timesink hobby>GIMP is a proof of concept>There is nothing wrong with GIMP though?Actually made me laugh out loud. Good job. But at least you are honest and this is also how I see all those open source alternatives. Subpar software that does the bare minimum but pretty badly. The problem I have is when foss evangelists spread misinformation about how the foss alternative is actually way better than the real deal which is absurd.
>>108904121Can you find a professionally-made image and point out one thing about it that would be impossible to produce via GIMP?
>>108897282>Affinity x64.msix>msixWhat the fuck is this shit? It says this software is british but every single part of this feels like chinkshit
>>108904152>moving goalposts nowNot him but I'll play this retarded game with you sure.All of them are "impossible to produce via GIMP" because all of them would take either 10x the time just be downright impossible.
>>108904162MSIX is Microsoft's next-generation Windows app package format. It's designed to replace MSI and EXE installers.https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/msix/overview
>>108904180>designed to replace MSI and EXE installersNo it isn't because it installs a windows store app instead of a proper standalone software.Only literal morons would ever install the windows store version of anything if there are alternatives
>>108903547maybe stop spamming disgusting jewesses on cooldown :)
>>108904176Can you give an example?
>>108904203Can you read?
>>108887881>Adobe somehow life supports this functional failuresource needed or meds taken
>>108904214Yes. "All of them" is patently untrue. So, give an example. Not 2, not 3, not 4; just one.
>>108904152A while back I made an indie game and I need textures. I decided I will finally give gimp a fair shake. I had used photoshop, paint shop pro, corel painter in the past before without issues.At the end of the day I managed to accomplish nothing, I tried to learn gimps interface but it was as if someone made it as unintuitive as possible, tutorial did not help and I felt like I was fighting with it the entire time rather than it being an extension of myself. The next day I reinstalled my super old version of photoshop CS2 and the I was actually able to make textures and edit the promo images for my game. Eventually I moved on to Krita because adobe can get fucked.The only way gimp makes sense is if you are super mega autistic and the gimp people have this weird baby duck syndrome which ironically they love accusing others of but most people can use other programs without issues but gimplets can only use gimp. I feel the same way about blender I have used 3ds max, maya, modo, houdini, xsi and even milkshape 3d are a million times nicer to use than blender but to give blender some credit they are actually trying to remove the turbo autism out of it to some extent. The second big problem with blender is that it does so many different things but does none of them well.
>>108904226You read part of the post now go ahead and read the rest
>>108904199Are you gay or something? How about you do us all a favor and kill yourself?
>>108904176>moving goalposts nowHow is that moving the goalposts? Anon is claiming cannot be used for professional work; a professionally-made image that is impossible to reproduce in GIMP would back up this claim.
>>108904229>but to give blender some credit they are actually trying to remove the turbo autism out of it to some extent.yeah but it took them decades and millions in funding and we're still not quite there (I love having materials and textures being silently deleted)
>>108897282>free for everyone to downloadno one gives a fuck that something is only free to downloadit is free until the company does a rug pull and makes everyone pay to keep working on their project with the latest versionAdobe too can be free to download if you know what I meanwhat we need is a true open source, free software alternative, as Stallman rightfully intended
>>108904250>How is that moving the goalposts?Because you were pretending to be someone that uses GIMP for professional work, people asked you to provide evidence, you declined and when pressed moved the goal post to >well but everything that is made with photoshop COULD be made with GIMP
>>108903747>Affinity>Operating system macOS, Microsoft Windows>License Proprietaryinto the trash it goes
>>108904263>people asked you to provide evidence, you declined and when pressed moved the goal postThat's not what moving goalposts is....failing to engage with YOUR new tactic isn't me moving goalposts; moving goalposts is when somebody THEMSELVES changes the criteria by which their conclusion should be considered correct, which I have not done.
>>108904271>*snatches it from your hand before you throw it away*I'll use it if you don't want it. The FOSS alternative is insufficient for professional work.
>>108904292>which I have not doneWell at least I'm glad you're not pretending to be someone else anymore but your inability to read entire posts remains.Let me highlight the part where you changed the goalposts>>well but everything that is made with photoshop COULD be made with GIMP>>well but everything that is made with photoshop COULD be made with GIMP>>well but everything that is made with photoshop COULD be made with GIMPHere is the quote 3 times in a row maybe you will be able to read this time
>>108904229All you are saying is that you don't know how to use GIMP. I do; find me an image I could not reproduce with GIMP.
>>108903426Wanting access to other people's property is called stealing. It is also known as communism.
>>108904333Coveting only becomes stealing once you actually consummate the access. But you also haven't answered the question.
>>108904245>posts a male jew instead as if it's any betteranime website, lil bro
>>108887881No, freetards really are that retarded. GIMP is unironically bad software.
>>108904316You cannot reproduce a CMYK TIFF image or CMYK PDF document for print projects in GIMP because GIMP doesn't support CMYK documents.
>>108904333By that definition, does that make piracy a form of communism then?
>>108904316Make this in Gimp
>>108904362>GIMP doesn't support CMYK documentsImage > Color Management > Soft-proof Profile > Attach the actual CMYK color profile from the International Color Consortium (https://registry.color.org/profile-registry/profiles/APTEC_CMYKOGV_Coated_LinearCTV_2025.icc)GIMP also lets you save your document a a .psd file, with a checkbox to export as CMYK.
>>108904316or this.
>>108904333>people's property>communismthere's no such thing as people's property under communismwhich also means you can't steal people's property under communism
>drawing a circle in GIMP is a 10 step processwhat the fuck were they thinking?
>>108904430now compare it to paint.net...and the funniest part is people will say >don't use gimp for drawing, it's not meant for thatlike that's a good argument
>>108904377>>108904418Do you got .psd's for these
>>108904203record the equivalent of mp4 with gimp so we can see the steps and end result.
>>108904441No, I didn't use photoshop
>>108904450>mm/dd/yyyy
>>108904458...
>>108904465i accept your concession once again
>>108904467As I said I ditched photoshop ages ago because I would rather than pay adobe a monthly subscription. I use Krita now.
>>108904479I'm >>108904439, which can actually draw circlesmm/dd/yyyy is retarded
>>108904491rather die*
>>108901620God you also reminded me of how fucking atrocious the text tool is on Krita.A FUCKING POP-UP WINDOW? SERIOUSLY?What the fuck is this, the early 90s??Even goddamn MS Paint had a realtime in-canvas text editor fucking jesus.On that note, the fact you can't use vector layers in animations pisses me off immensely.There was a whole argument on their tracker about the useless devs losing it, thinking people were asking for a full ass rigging system, when people were just wanting to use fucking vector layers as-is in an animation.
>>108904450So it took you 22 seconds to rasterise a circle with a gradient while it only took me 12.
>>108904493who gives a shit? perhaps you want to comment on the color of the task bar as well?
>>108904529>So it took you 22 seconds twhy are you counting the speed at which i did the action and not the actions themselves?>to rasterisenothing is rasterized in my video, and funny how you carefully avoided scaling it up because you know what's gonna happen. Go ahead, make us laugh.
>>108904530>windows 11>ENG INTLlarping jeet?
>>108904562it's windows 10 you fucking mongoloid and i use ENG INTL because dead keys make using every combinations of french accents more accessible.
>>108904553>why are you counting the speed at which i did the actionBecause if you want to prove that Photoshop or whatever is less cumbersome, you should be able to perform tasks quicker than me.>nothing is rasterized in my videoYour .mp4 file itself is a series of raster images; is your image not intended to ultimately be uploaded to the internet as a .jpg or .png?>scaling it upIf I'm unhappy with the size of a circle in my project, I can just redraw it. I still don't see any convincing evidence that I cannot produce a circle with GIMP.
>>108904601>Your .mp4 file itself is a series of raster images; is your image not intended to ultimately be uploaded to the internet as a .jpg or .png?holy shit you are DESPERATE>If I'm unhappy with the size of a circle in my project, I can just redraw itdraw it small, then scale it up like I did you cowardly, gaslighting, goalpost moving bitch
>>108904614>DESPERATEI don't follow. Your picture is meant to be distributed in some form, meaning your intention is to rasterise it. I don't know why you are starting some pilpul over rasterisation anyway.>cowardly, gaslighting, goalpost moving bitchOnce again, you don't know what goalpost moving is...failing to engage with YOUR new tactic isn't me moving goalposts; moving goalposts is when somebody THEMSELVES changes the criteria by which their conclusion should be considered correct, which I have not done.
>>108887881How many times has adobe made this thread now?
>>108904633in my video I am drawing a small circle, filling it with a gradient, then scaling it up. this is all you have to do and you refuse to and we both know why. I accept your concession.
>>108904341Wanting access to the source code that someone else made isn't even a freedom. That's like if I demand to fuck my neighbour's wife and if he refuses I complain that he is taking my freedom from me. Also what would he get out of open sourcing it? Useless forks that add pride flags to it? Internet drama with mentally ill people? What would you get out of it?>>108904370That is just regular "stealing" although not to the same degree as stealing something in real life since digital goods can be infinitely copied. It becomes communism when you demand that stealing should be legal and if the company complains you are allowed to kill them.>>108904425The state steals everything as soon as the communists come into power. Then they do what they want with your property and if you complain you get shot to death or send to the gulag. Communism is just like an armed robbery commited by the state.
>gimp can do anything>ok do this:>blablabla videos are a bunch of frame blablabla image distributiontoo fucking easy
>>108904648You asked me earlier (>>108904450) to show you the end result. I have done just that. I reproduced the same image, what more do you want? Spare me such bullshit as "we both know why" when you're the one who can't even keep track of your own demands.
>>108904660What is the definition of "end result"? I was asked to demonstrate an end result.
>>108904271Name 1 (one) thing that is bad about a proprietary license.
>>108904741We are unable to audit the code for spyware/backdoors.
>>108904672>>108904683>he cant draw it small then scale it uplet me do it for you you squirming little bitch:OOF, no wonder you desperately resorted to semantic to avoid doing it LMAO
>>108904801For somebody who constantly throws around accusations of goalpost moving, you yourself are a goalpost mover; you asked for an "end result", specifically, and despite getting one, you are unhappy.
>>108904820OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFno wonder you didnt want to do it LMAO
>>108903824Well unless there is proof they do it I will not worry about it. I am sure those calls are just telemetry to identify performance issues, crashes and to see what features get used.Why is this level of paranoia so common in software but not elsewhere? I also don't know what the chef puts into my food in the restaurant. Maybe there could be poison in there or chemicals that slowly turn me gay?
>>108904834Are you going to acknowledge that you had asked for an "end result" here (>>108904450)? Another question: would you prefer us to ignore the demands you made in this post (>>108904450)? If you don't answer both of these questions, I will assume you are a troll (or have otherwise conceded) and go about my day.
>>108904844>I also don't know what the chef puts into my food in the restaurantMaybe in India mate. In western countries we these things called "disclosures" and "duty of care".
>>108904820>>108904845>record the equivalent of mp4 with gimp so we can see the steps and end result.>so we can see the steps and end result.>so we can see the steps>the stepsshow me where in your video you showed the steps involving scaling up a small circle
>>108904850Sure now proof to me that the cook didn't have his hand up his ass just before he prepared my meal. You can't.
>>108904683are you stupid or autistic or something?everyone knows you CAN draw a circle in GIMP, but it's CUMBERSOME to do it.That's precisely the idea.An easy solution for such an use case is deliberately absent.
>>108904858You didn't ask me to scale a circle. The comment your video was replying to (>>108904203) asked you to show an example of a picture that could not be produced with Gimp; naturally, your video should be interpreted as an example of a picture that could not be produced with Gimp. I then reproduced said picture, exactly as you asked: "so we can see the steps and end result". The process was different in Gimp but that is nevertheless Gimp's equivalent process.>>108904866If it's so cumbersome then Anon should have done it faster in Photoshop.
>>108904889fantastic. Now that we have clarified our unfortunate misunderstanding you can now record yourself drawing a small circle then scaling it up like I did!
>>108904896Misunderstanding? Mate, misunderstanding? You insisted across several comments that X image or Y image could not be produced with Gimp, and then when you were repeatedly asked to provide an example thereof, you showed a fucking circle and asked me to reproduce the end result (your words). This isn't a "misunderstanding"; this is you refusing to admit that you are a liar, and your repeated refusal to admit you were wrong combined with your repeated moving of goalposts prove that you are a troll.
>>108904929yes, there was a misunderstanding on my part and I apologize. Could you please record yourself drawing a small circle then scale it up? Thank you.
>>108903858>Photopea being webshit is one of the biggest tragedies on linuxIsn't that actually good? Every linux distro has access to it with no weird packaging shenanigans and no bugs that get introduced from the various configurations on linux. As long as it runs a browser it can run Photopea.
>>108904936What you're attempting to do now is pretend that the entire argument from the very start was about scaling circles, even though you didn't ask me to scale circles, even though scaling circles was not relevant to the query your video was supposed to answer, and even though scaling circles was not relevant to the claims which the query was targeted at.This logical fallacy is known as a "red herring": it's when you suddenly bring up something unrelated to your original claim and attempt to use its correctness as proof of your original claim's correctness.Again, for someone who throws around "UR MOVING THE GOALPOSTZ!", the only one modifying the standards for success in the middle of the argument has been you. You started off insisting that it is literally "impossible" to produce certain pictures with Gimp, so please don't lie about your own rhetoric when it is extremely trivial to crosscheck.
>>108905014so you thought i drew it stupidly small then scaled it up because im retarded and couldnt draw it big before? I am not the original anon, my first post to you was my mp4, and all I asked is for you to do the same steps and show the end result. 50 posts later you can't do it and I showed why. gimp is shit, I proved it, you're a squirming little tranny.
>>108905046>because im retardedThis is readily apparent to all observers, yes.
>>108905054
>>108904758That is a paranoia problem and not a license problem. Unless you can prove any wrongdoing there is no reason to suspect it.
>>108905129https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISMThe burden of proof rests on the software providers.
>>108905129>there's no reason to suspect companies of doing the single most profitable thing in the 21st century
>whole thread is just meltdowns from /v/tards seething about the mere existence of GIMPAnother reason to keep using this program that I paid exactly $0 for. Unlike Photoshop, GIMP:>Doesn't add background services or startup entries I never asked for>Doesn't install random spyware, cloud trash and other shit I don't want during upgrades>Doesn't demand money from me>Let's me design cool flyers and other promotional materials in peace>Makes tween gamer faggots cryMonumentally based software.
>>108904523>dev losing it when the user requests a completly normal feature that isn't even hard to implementI sometimes wonder if these people get off on playing dense retards that can't even comprehend simple sentences.Or they argue that you shouldn't want that feature or that the broken design was intentional or that you can't ask for things since they aren't a company. I LOVE FOSS!!!
>>108904889>>108905014This is comical levels of autism. Like something you would see in a sitcom where the autist character doesn't comprehend simple sentences and overanalyzes everything and still misunderstands. Just put a laugh track over it and it's perfect.
>>108905146I don't do anything that is threatening to the USA so why would they want to spy on me? 99.99999% of people in the world don't have plans to assassinate the president stored on their PC. Spying on all those people for absolutely no reason would be an insane waste of time and money.>>108905174If they were selling user data than you would see that in their revenue breakdown of Adobe or Canva but you don't since it isn't even existent. It's also not like they are hiding it because companies like Google and Meta proudly show how they make 90+% of their money from collecting user data and serving ads.
>tldr I'm more employed than you are because I use proprietary software and you are a tranny
>>108887905They should port it to win32, the most stable API in Linux.
>ctrl+f "photoshop">53 resultsGIMP faggots spend all day screeching and crying about le ebil adoob, conveniently ignoring that there's countless other FOSS and proprietary software that isn't hampered by a retarded interface.
>>108903796Drawing boobs
>>108887881If you install a vm you can run any adobeshit you want. You don't need the newest/subscription version either, stable diffusion can fulfill the role of any content aware tool.
>>108887881>don't like GIMP>like Krita>simple as
>>108905451>In a 21-post reply chain, users were arguing over whether GIMP can actually produce X image>Anon posts a circle as though it is a nuclear rebuttal, and asks to reproduce the end result>The end result is reproduced>Anon shifts goalposts, while accusing his opponent of himself shifting goalposts for noticing>We are expected to ignore the 21-post reply chain that Anon's video was supposed to be relevant to
>free program that can do a lot>random autist goes on a 2-3 day long shitpost bender to somehow claim this is untruego on, make a comeback to me using more of your mental illness
>>108907424>install a vm you can run any adobeshit you wantWhy the fuck would anyone want adobe shit? It's awful. Everything they make is trash for retards.
>>108887881adobe has ip rights to the ui and features.
>>108908322Numbers speak truth.
>>108907549If you are just trolling then I must say you are doing an amazing job. There is just no way you didn't read the part where it says you need to do the same steps AND the same end result.>>108904601You even admitted here that it can't scale a circle and you would just redraw it. That is such an insane statement that it is pretty obvious that you are just trolling. Your funny tangent about rasterizing an image is 10/10 bait.
>>108908608>it says you need to do the same stepsFalse: I was asked to record the equivalent.
>>108908322Well if you are so smart then tell us what all the intellectuals like yourself use instead of "adobe shit".
>>108896504>Other then that its like Adobe from 2003-2007.lol, I wish
>>108896504
>>108908326No it doesn't.
>>108908326>adobe has ip rights to the ui and featuresPurely functional UI layouts cannot be copyrighted. Adobe does not own the concept of a left-aligned vertical toolbar, top-layer drop-down menus (File, Edit, Image), or a floating layers panel on the right. Competitors are free to use a similar layout layout because standard placements are considered "scenes a faire" (standard industry practices required for functionality).Adobe does not own the general concept of photo editing features. Anyone can build a software tool that crops an image, adjusts contrast, uses a brush tool, or utilizes layers. These are foundational concepts of digital imaging, not proprietary Adobe creations.I'm so sick of disingenuous gimplets just lying all the time about everything
>>108909011They have this in 3Ds max, no one asked for it and it's super retarded.Pic related, it's what using gimp/blender feels like
>>108909011It had to be a bunch of browns that invent and patent such a shitty feature lol. The only time I use it is when I click it by accident lmao.Also what does this have to do with gimp and image editors?
>>108908997see>>108909011
>>108909095One shitty patent for 3ds max / maya doesn't mean shit. Are you guys fucking retarded or something? Of course you are. Does that patent prevent anyone else from making 3d software with navigatable view ports? No of course not, that would be stupid because Autodesk would have sued their competition out of business if that was the case.Show me actual patents for adobe photoshop that prevent gimp from actually being useful and productive? Finally why haven't adobe sued the hell out of photopea and krita for their patent infringement? Gimp really is a retarded program that attracts the most retarded defenders.
>>108902373>resorts to autistic denial of reality and his own personal biased beliefspeople like you are why FOSS software gets stuck in bogs. Fucking sperg scum.
>>108909216I could show your comment history to normal, functioning contributors to society and they would agree you should be in jail or mentally disabled.So I don't think you have any footing to call anybody "sperg scum".
>>108909226>So I don't think you have any footing to call anybody "sperg scum"hmmmm I think he does though
>>108908617does gimp not have an equivalent to scaling?
>>108909269You can scale raster objects but GIMP still doesn't really have much in the way of vector graphics
>>108908870aww thanks
>>108909269maybe its in resize image sampling algorithm none
>>108909117>plenty of questions anyone with half a brain would find obviousare you just pretending to be retarded?
>>108909633>gimplet deflecting AGAIN
>foss program is dogshit>hurr durr is this controlled opposition??!?!!? corporate meddling?1?!?!No, the unpaid devs just suck dick and nobody cares because foss is generally non-functional SHIT.
