>>108935782
Nothing.

>>108935782
It's already the default in many distros now so I'd say it finally made it.

Pip on top without having to use mods or extra config.

>>108935782
Security tokens for auth based application white listing

sane implementation on Gnome

>>108936150
not possible
there is nothing sane about GNOME

>>108935782
Ironically enough a use case.

>>108935782
Screensavers.

Proper graphic tablet support, It's the main reason I dualboot linux mint. My cursor flickers non-stop, I keep activating the on screen key on accident, and I can't calibrate my screen tablet properly. The pressure curve options also aren't great. Artists weren't consulted for any of this. I guarantee it.

not sure, but Cinnamon is missing *it*

>>108935782
It has major latency, especially on 60hz screens. Xorg is literally just better for latency, even when composited. Wayland always has major input lag in almost all popular implementations. The only reason most people don't care is because fullscreen games have workarounds, but tough luck for us desktop users who actually use a computer! If anyone has anything contrary please let me know I'd love to use Wayland daily.

>>108935782
Linux is as a whole missing a proper AHK replacement. Wayland just takes this to the next level.

>>108936295
latency is mainly a xwayland problem
if you can run a program in native wayland it disappears

>>108937033
>latency is mainly a xwayland problem
No, even the mouse cursor lags.

>>108935782
For implementation to be more portable, and for it to be more mature and stable across implementations. It still needs some time, maybe a year or two. And I hope the autists of suckless et al make something good for it, and port their software.

>>108936295
>>108937269
Probably because of Wayland's "perfect frame" obsession.

>>108936325
You can use AHK with X11. The package is ahk_x11 in the AUR.

>>108936295
as someone who uses Wayland on his main PC but X11 on his old travel laptop, this is still an issue. and I STILL can't tell what causes it, since I've seen multiple anons here complain about it on modern hardware and high refresh-rates
either it's an obscure hardware incompatibility, or just that Wayland requires shit like GPU acceleration to an aggressive degree. but I question the latter since I've seen people using T480s with identical specs complain or refrain from said issue.
but either way I've always seen responses to said queries (from devs, even) as "lol stop using old hardware" so I've always just stopped caring about contributing to fixing the issue.

>>108935782
Doesn't support the cool WMs I like (stumpwm, exwm). No, I will not use Sway. I need MORE!

>>108935782
ID and age verification. Also needs to be closed source. Tired of fat pedo incels fucking with the code.
Let the professionals handle it. They know what we need.
The verification will keep kids safer and make it harder for data abusers to abuse data

>>108935782
Penis

>>108936295
I don't notice anything on KDE @100Hz. Maybe it's the double buffering that most wayland compositors do? Idk

>>108935782
Better documentation. The spec should be a nice reference to check something, not the main documentation. Parts of it are already deprecated + very basic stuff are put into protocol extensions.

And wlroots shouldn't really exist in its current form. Why not improve documentaiton instead of providing a shitty implementation that nearly everybody uses as a base to save time?

Decades and there's still no good documentation for this shit. It's all just try and experiment by yourself because it really is an unfinished protocol to this day.

>>108939201
>Maybe it's the double buffering that most wayland compositors do?
Can it be disabled?

the ability to not composite

>>108939548
Probably not. It's up to the wayland compositor, which is not really a compositor but more like a wayland server.

>>108937033
rubbish

>>108938067
Coding should be left to the experts, not amateurs. Trust the experts, trust the computer science.

>>108936150
>>108936200
Use case for GNOME?
Just use KDE.

>>108935782
It's been 'THE FUTURE' for 20 fucking years, when is it going to be ready for prime time?

>>108935782
Good foundation. Because shit foundation we dont have independent cursor and can't disable compositor (for obvious reason) and yeah I dont care about your cope solutions. It's horrible alternative for xorg.

File: 8ca.jpg (65 KB, 367x306)

65 KB JPG

>>108935782
Pick whatever flavor of the year issue you want. Currently the most meme worthy is PiP not working. When they finally fix that in the next 5+ years people will move to the next embarrassing issue. Just a few more decades guys and it will finally be ready for prime time. Soon it will have feature parity with Windows XP!

>>108935782
It's still like an amateur demo it's really fucked up.
Windows still randomly flash blank and show some buggy looking black square patterns every so often for no discernible reason.
There are still no rdp server implementation that works on wayland: the 2 that work don't support audio streaming, and they all require manual permission from the host to be able to connect so it's impossible to use it if the host is unattended.
Latency is a major issue.
Screenshot tools only work in some environments and not others.
Still had a whole display server crash once before giving up on wayland again.

>>108939793
The main argument they made 20 years ago was that x is so old and thus can only be fixed with a rewrite.
It's now older than x and has yet to reach feature parity of the first x11 release.

>>108935782
Working global hotkeys, being able to interact with other windows, working fullscreen overlay, being able to set the window position (for example for custom notifications). You can do that with wlroots protocol, but no wayland so it doesn't work on gnome for example.

File: ebassi-hackergotchi.png (275 KB, 512x512)

275 KB PNG

>>108935782
A usecase.

>>108935782
I switched to macOS because of systemd + freedesktop + wayland and all that slop that they're trying to force us to use on GNU/Linux. Recommend anyone quitting Linux to try macOS first for a month straight at least, at least in the MacBook Neo, but preferably at least in the cheapest current-gen MacBook Air (16 GB, 512 GB)

>>108935782
it's just a protocol
everyone implemented their own shit

>>108940047 (Me)
Although I still am using Linux on my desktop, might just buy a docking station or evem switch the PC to Windows

>>108940047
I have mac free from work. It's the most garbage unproductive nagware OS ever.
I just use GNU/Linux without systemd or wayland and stay productive.

>>108940056
If mac and windows are considerations for you, then you had no reason to object to any of those things.

>>108940074
Explain, what's so bad about it? The only real problem imo is the weird window "maximizing" behavior, but that's not important imo

>>108939755
>*KRASHES*
no thanks

File: 1775082820736357.jpg (687 KB, 3640x2048)

687 KB JPG

>>108935782
I don't know what is missing but sure as hell i'll refuse to use wayland until its supposed security advantages over x11 keep being offset by fucking dbus being there. Until then enjoy using whatever the fuck you want because doesn't fucking matter.

I spent the last couple of weeks porting my personal software to wayland and it's worse than I thought. It's usable, I could survive on it, and a few things are a bit better - most of that from gtk4 actively sabotaging their x11 support.

The core protocols are there now, it doesn't have to be awful, but only 2-3 compositors competently implement enough of them. The protocols are an underspecified mess and are hard to implement correctly - every compositor thinks every other compositor is wrong. There's a page with a giant matrix tracking protocol support by compositor which is the biggest joke. I ended up only targeting sway and hyprland because niri and mango were too far behind, and kde and gnome are fucked off in their own little worlds.

Not just compositors, the rest of the software is shit too. Waybar crashes if you restart mpd, and it can't even keep my caps lock state synced (this crap has 11k stars?). Slurp can't be used to select larger floating windows on top of smaller ones, it always picks the smallest rectangle. Swaymsg get_tree exposes no global ordering of floating windows, only local within a workspace. xwayland-satellite is necessary to unscale xwayland, but it's a buggy mess maintained by one guy.

Sway/wlroots gets maybe one release a year, so bugs stick around forever. Hyprland is buggy but the dev accepts patches in less than a year, though he's dug in his heels on an mpv resize issue. Gnome is actively sabotaging the ecosystem. Runelite still can't resize itself properly.

This feels like a 2-3 year old experiment, not a ~2 decade serious effort. The future sucks.

>>108940274
>(this crap has 11k stars?)
Github is social media. People star things they saw on reddit, think of it like an upvote. Doesn't mean they downloaded it, let alone used it.

>>108940274
> This feels like a 2-3 year old experiment, not a ~2 decade serious effort. The future sucks.
Works as intended. Nothing of the architectural decisions of Wayland makes sense except when you assume malevolent intent. It's sabotage.

>>108940287
It at least seems pretty widely used. Unlike the hyprland guy the waybar dev doesn't seem very responsive so I fixed a few crashes locally and haven't bothered opening PRs. The code is really bad and it's clear the dev has no idea what he was doing but also wasn't brave enough to just copy modules from polybar. Might switch it out for something else but I really don't want a bloated all-in-one shell.

At times I'm hitting bugs so obvious (like the slurp one) that I feel I'm the first person to ever use this software. No one before me, ever, has tried to select a floating window using slurp. No one has ever activated the mpd module of waybar before. No one could possibly have been regularly using this software without fixing these obvious, glaring bugs.

>>108939860
I agree that PiP is broken but I really can't bring myself to go back to windows just for that. Also right click header bar and "keep above others" works for now.

>>108940128
just don't use (((fedora))) then it's fine

>>108939860
>>108940366(Me)
Scratch that you can click anywhere in the PiP window.

>>108940274
>every compositor thinks every other compositor is wrong
>kde and gnome are fucked off in their own little worlds
>Gnome is actively sabotaging the ecosystem
explain

>>108940366
The setting gets turned off again when you close the PiP window. So everytime you go in and out of PiP you will have to check it again. Made me never want to use PiP because of that but on Gnome there are extensions to always keep the window on top.

>>108940389
>explain
the jews. (ebussy and nate graham)

>>108939749
Yes. exactly.
Who do you think has your (the consumer's) best intentions in mind?
a) The college educated professional with a degree in CS and years of experience, backed with professional grade software and teams of other professional developers.
b) Some fat pedophile who watched a few YooToob videos, installed Arch, and pretends to be a CoDeR mAn?

File: file.png (67 KB, 935x674)

67 KB PNG

>>108940409
AI found a fix for it.

>>108940345
>Might switch it out for something else but I really don't want a bloated all-in-one shell.
There's
>https://git.sr.ht/~dlm/mojito
Written by the people of wayland.fyi, they have some good projects also like a fork of swc called neuswc
>https://git.sr.ht/~shrub900/neuswc
And other things. Fwik they're mostly communist edgy teens and trannies, do with that whatever you want kek.

>I feel I'm the first person to ever use this software.
That software is mostly used by unixporn-tards that do nothing in their computers except screenshot their neofetch to post on reddit and discord.

>>108935782
because it's still not finished

i still cant have an always on top always toggle-able drop down terminal.

>>108939201
>Decades and there's still no good documentation for this shit. It's all just try and experiment by yourself because it really is an unfinished protocol to this day.
Describes literally everything created by Millennials.

>>108939906
>It's now older than x and has yet to reach feature parity of the first x11 release.
Much like how JSON has yet to reach parity with XML.

File: file.png (44 KB, 1132x249)

44 KB PNG

>>108935782
Universally supported server side decorations.
>just import a bunch of libraries to draw different titlebars for every compositor past, present, and future
No. Fuck GNOME.

File: surveillance mexico train car.png (393 KB, 669x665)

393 KB PNG

>>108935782
what's wrong with X11/Xorg?
I didnt even know what wayland was until i just looked it up, its probably like "upgrading" to windows 11 from perfectly faster windows 10

>>108935859
Already solved.
https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/3612

And the proper upstream effort:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/132

File: nice.png (9 KB, 685x138)

9 KB PNG

>>108940000
0000
/thread

>>108942005
What's wrong with Yakuake?

https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Known_Significant_Issues
this list has been dramatically shortened in the past year btw, impressive

>>108942290
>this list has been dramatically shortened in the past year btw
Yeah, it's now shorter than the list of known issues with the X11 session (issues that will never be fixed as they're removing all X11 support for Plasma 6.8)
https://community.kde.org/Plasma/X11_Known_Significant_Issues

>>108940389
>every compositor thinks every other compositor is wrong
Every time you run into an incompatibility between compositors, they'll blame each other. The most recent one is transformations, where the compositors don't agree on something as basic as what buffer preferred transform actually means, and I get different rotations across multiple compositors.

>kde and gnome are fucked off in their own little worlds
kde and gnome are the biggest and they're the ones implementing the most of their own extensions and leaving off things that are standard elsewhere. If you make software that works on everything but gnome/kde, you will almost always need to add gnome/kde specific extensions to get the same behaviour on them. Screenshot capture is the big one I ran into recently. There's a new standard way to do it (xdg-image-copy-*), an old way (wlr-screencopy), but both gnome and kde will never implement either.

>Gnome is actively sabotaging the ecosystem
Gnome is the only reason wayland even supports CSD, especially in the dumb way that let's compositors opt out of providing SSD entirely. They're also the biggest ones who delayed fractional scaling by such a long time. Basically, if you go into a Wayland protocol proposal and see someone pissing and screaming that they can't do <thing> because Windows or X11 does <thing>, better than even odds it's a gnome.

>>108942200
Mostly security issues, which were solved in OpenBSD with Xenocara so these issues wouldn't be insurmountable except that development on Xorg is now limited to maintenance because 'Wayland is the future'. The powers that be have decided Wayland is the future because of the security issues in Xorg.

>>108942484
>Screenshot capture is the big one I ran into recently. There's a new standard way to do it (xdg-image-copy-*), an old way (wlr-screencopy), but both gnome and kde will never implement either.
They want you to go through PipeWire and DBus which is fucking awful if you just want to build a simple command line tool to pipe to ffmpeg and suddenly you're needing to do blocking IPC over DBus.

I wish KDE were a bit more pragmatic here. They usually are and implement a lot of other non-standard extensions but somebody has convinced them somehow to take the same stance as GNOME here. Probably so that GNOME yet again isn't seen to be standing alone and it makes them look a bit more reasonable.

Can you do stuff like change gamma, vibrance, and color temperature from the command line on wayland? I know Plasma has options for that but I usually run tiling window managers that don't, so I need to use command line tools to get the colors I want.

>>108940047
Imagine shilling Apple products in a thread for people too poor to afford an OS. I bet you do it for free.

>>108942634
Gammastep works in most wlroots compositors
I don't know how you control "vibrance" (I get you mean the SDR saturation level controls that Plasma exposes) though. I know Sway has some ICC profile support and there's been recent work on things like that but it's still experimental as far as I know.

KDE and GNOME have better controls by far. Most of the developers of these tiling monitors don't even have expensive monitors or understand why you'd want to be able to calibrate and control them, etc.

>>108940047
Congratulations! You went from Systemd to Systemd-lite (Launchd).

>>108942663
I'm so broke I can't afford Linux. I just fire up my rig and stare at the UEFI.

File: images.jpg (22 KB, 588x441)

22 KB JPG

>want to use a gamepad for vidya
>get one million popups asking me to share my desktop because one of the sticks is mapped to a mouse and I need Wayland's consent for this arrangement

>>108942748
It's probably just emulating a mouse via some app. If it were an actual mouse (even if virtual) that shows up in uninput then you wouldn't need permission it'd just work like any other mouse.

>>108942764
*uinput
(/dev/uinput, /dev/input*, etc)

>>108942290
>this list has been dramatically shortened in the past year btw, impressive
Probably because Valve paid them to get their shit together. Imagine if Valve bankrolled the entire Linux ecosystem.

>>108942769
>>108942764
OK. But this shit just works on X11. Why does Wayland have to be such a naggy bitch?

>>108942800
Because it probably uses a real driver under X11. This is basically the shitty apps fault. Ideally the controller would present itself properly as a mouse and your desktop settings just see that.

Instead it's doing some "Remote control" dance, likely because you need root permissions to setup a proper virtual device and rather than do all that they're using this "Fake virtual mouse control" as a workaround even though they could totally ask you for your root password to set all that up properly or install a Udev rule, etc.

>>108942699
>Most of the developers of these tiling monitors don't even have expensive monitors
Ironically I use these color controls in X11 to make my 15 year old Thinkpad not look like complete shit. If I had a standalone monitor I'd just use the buttons on the monitor. For vibrance/saturation, I use some abandoned utility called libvibrant. I like to use it to make my screen black and white sometimes, either to check if the lighting looks good in an image I'm working on, or to make my workspace have fewer distractions.

>>108942705
You don't get it. It's okay if I don't have a choice and I'm not supposed to. It's not okay when I'm supposed to have a choice, but everyone is trying to lock it down to systemd.

>>108942931
>The vendor lock-in is okay when Apple does it
>The vendor lock-in is not okay when Red Hat does it
Oh, so you're just retarded.

>>108942966
Yes, because Apple did not take away any freedom, it was just never present or expected in the first place.

>>108943033
>My oppressor is so nice and kind because I was expecting to be oppressed

>>108935782
a logo that doesnt look like somebody discovered mspaint

Can't do drag and drop. There are music plugins that rely on that because the plugin developers are too retarded to have a File -> Import menu.
Honestly making music on Linux was a mistake, there are no advantages but plenty of disadvantages

>>108943360
>Can't do drag and drop.
wrong

>>108943369
>if you app implements at least two extensions dreamed up by fevered gnome and kde devs you'll partially support drag and drop on wayland
not a serious solution

>>108935782
a good window manager

File: 1770797941734554.webm (835 KB, 1920x1080)

835 KB WEBM

>>108935782
I still want to be able to set my own application window position or at least set the scaling origin point.

I patched qimgv to always have the size of the image and it works great on X11 but on wayland when you navigate on a folder with images of different sizes and aspect ratios it gets pushed around a lot, and if you scale the image you can't control the origin and it also end up outside the screen with a lot of unused screen space.

I don't care where other windows are, I just want to be able to set my own window position, not others, why is this so risky that we can't even have a permission for it and let the user decide?

>>108942828
anon can you teach me your ways? my thinkpad is 24 years old and the only problem I have with it is the screen
btw I use sct(1) for the temperature, it has no dependencies besides X

>>108936257
Both my laptops run Wayland and have screensavers.
They’re useless because no CRT, but they work, with very little work (it’s just setting up the screenlocker).
For now it’s only possible on Plasma, and Xscreesaver is working on implementing the protocol that’d allow it to work on everything else (except Gnome, and maybe Cinnamon).

>>108935782
"Feature X doesn’t work on Wayland" should usually read "Feature X doesn’t work on Gnome Wayland."
For the last 15 years it’s been:
1. Gnome removes feature Y.
2. Gnome says they removed feature Y because of Wayland
3. Plasma implements feature Y on their Wayland session
4. Idiots say "Feature Y doesn’t work on Wayland."

>>108943343
Unironically this. What kind of person sees how cool the X logo looks and thinks “yep I’m gonna make it look like soulless corporate slop”
The name too, wth does wayland even means? If you’re gonna make the corporate freedom killer at least make it sound cool ffs

>>108943960
Also it’s wonderful how window managers are now basically web browsers who may or not run your application
Just like you’re gonna have a hard time running anything else other than Chrome/Firefox/WebKit, now on the graphical level you better be running GNOME/KDE/wlroots :-)

>>108938055
What are WMs like Hyprland missing that you would like? I've been able to take each feature I like from each other WM I've used or heard about using the configuration or plugins.

>>108942931
>>108943033
This is probably the most retarded line of argument I've heard from an Apple user to date.

>>108943943
I forgot 3b. Gnome stalls or nacks every protocol they don’t want.

>>108944009
idk, I never looked into hyprland because I don't like all the visual stuff it does (even if it's optional)

>>108942167
Name ONE (1) thing that xml can do that json can't.
I'll wait.
Meanwhile json is significantly more modular, significantly more data-efficient, infinitely easier for a human to work with, infinitely faster for a computer to process...
On the contrary, wayland is slower and buggier than X while things that work with X still not working with wayland after 20 years.

>>108944253
Namespaces / Schema. You have to bolt that on top with JSON. Granted, everybody loves the freeform nature of JSON. How the fuck that shit is structured and interpreted is somebody else's problem.

>>108942314
Those are not X-related limitations, though (except 2), while >>108942290 are 100% wayland and not kwin-related limitations.

>>108944276
Yes, a lot of them are problems with the Xorg Server rather than the protocol. XLibre hasn't fixed them though. It's broken by design.

>>108942816
That is incorrect. It correctly presents itself as a mouse. The problem is purely wayshit. Same problem with rdp.

>>108944253
>Name ONE (1) thing that xml can do that json can't.
Going to jump in this conversation to say, comments.

>>108943989
> Just like you’re gonna have a hard time running anything else other than Chrome/Firefox/WebKit, now on the graphical level you better be running GNOME/KDE/wlroots
TRUTH NUKE

>>108944288
Then do you get a permission prompt to use your normal mouse too? That doesn't even make any sense. If it's an actual mouse instead of emulating one then it should just work. The only time you'd get a permission prompt is if it's doing the "Remote control" permissions crap instead of being an actual mouse.

>>108944262
json schema has been a thing in literally forever and solves both issues at once.
NEXT

>>108944299
It's not part of JSON though, it's bolted on after the fact.

>>108944291
Fuck, that is actually a good point unironically though.

>>108944306
So was xmlns so what's your point?

>>108944339
No, it extended XML and made it a core language feature. You can have completely custom elements in XML. In JSON all you have is keys and values. If you want to do custom elements with custom attributes, etc, then its nested dicts and arrays all the way down. Not pretty at all, it just looks like an unstructured mess unless you're reading it with the schema right next to it to make sense of it all.

>>108944351
Nope, xmlns is an add-on to the core spec and not part of the actual core language. Look it up before your next embarrassing post.

>>108944379
Same thing. Yes, they're technically different languages but your XML parser is going to parse both anyway.

>>108944388
And before you say, same for JSON too. Yes, yes, it will parse it. With fucking ugly '$' prefixed or '__' prefixed keys everywhere that you have to look up the documentation to see what's what because it doesn't have real namespaces.

File: Screenshot_2026-05-31-07-(...).jpg (75 KB, 1238x644)

75 KB JPG

>>108936295
Wrong

>>108944388
Same for json. You keep backpedaling, but you're really stuck in this corner by now.
>>108944407
Have you tried and compared? Of course you haven't. The behavior in practice in both cases is identical.
The lack of comments in json is the only real problem listed so far.

>>108944421
It's more readable in XML if it's self-documenting. But I'll give you that it can be just as horrific as the JSON mess sometimes too if the person/company doesn't know what they're doing and comes up with crap.

>>108943469
>the main industry standard DEs implemented useful extensions that solve the problem
>not a serious solution
how so? i mean they can be always mainlined into wayland if you care about not relying on third extensions

>>108944486
It's not a solution because it only works on gnome and kde and on nothing else. As you said yourself it's not wayland compatible until extensions are mainlined.

File: american-choice.png (315 KB, 976x823)

315 KB PNG

>>108944505
ngl it’s scary how now we really have a duopoly on the graphics too

as if chrome-firefox windows-macos iphone-android wasn’t enough

why do muricans have bring their 2 party system over to everything else?

>>108944203
As in the animations? I don't understand not liking something optional. You can just switch it off.
Doesn't even have to be related to Hyprland here. What do you want from stumpwm and exwm that Sway couldn't do for you?

>>108944415
The Wayland bar is ever so slightly higher than the X11 bar, so look, you don't get it. Me, a desktop user, I NEED every ounce of latency I can get. I will waste away without the extra half a millisecond and my productivity will be in shambles. My serious and good desktop uses will NOT work with that extra latency. It's just not feasible. I'm not a sweaty gamer like you probably.

>>108935782
color management?
is it still broken?

>>108945064
no that was added to the wayland protocol a long time ago

>>108945067
besides being added, the shit was broken at the applications handling profiles

>>108945017
Because

File: sbx4.jpg (63 KB, 1031x373)

63 KB JPG

>>108942289
here. this script controls my terminal. whatever window manager (usually openbox) controls its always-on-top-ness. intuit its behavior in all cases then come back when you've tried to make any terminal follow that behavior 100% of the time under any wayland compositor.

>>108944415
>vsync vs vsync

>>108942188
Its so retarded because gnome does technically support server-side decorations, for xwayland applications. They just dont want to allow it for wayland applications.

>>108942563
Thats a psyop. "Security" has never been an issue in practice for the xorg server and 99.9% of wayland users run software in an environment where they end up with the same security issues as x11 users, for example their autostart ~/.bashrc or ~/.zshrc has read/write permission and is accessible by applications and that would allow the malware to inject malware into all applications. And this is an actual attack vector that is used (for servers, nobody cares about the desktop). All we have on the linux desktop is a security theater.

>>108944415
Isn't that literally what he mentioned? fullscreen games? also I dont think it shows cursor latency, because wayland has higher cursor latency and the hyprland dev also agrees with that

>>108944505
What sucks is that often even if an extension becomes mainlined gnome will often refuse to implement it, like server-side decorations

>>108935782
accessibility
you can’t have a program control other programs in Wayland like you can in Windows and macOS and X11

>>108947251
100% this.
They should add permissions prompts for almost anything that they consider "risky" instead of limiting what you can do.

>>108935782
>design prevents cross-application automation
It’s kilarious that both macos (hammerspoon, automator, even shortcuts if you’re a nocode scum) and winshit (autohotkey) are miles ahead than linux at this

>>108935782
>play a video in fullscreen on a mac
>works fine
>play a video in fullscreen on windows
>works fine
>play a video in fullscreen on gaylqnd
>*brightness keeps flickering several times a second*
I guess there was no ise case for playing videos as fullscreen so nobody took a look at it

>>108945523
In other words: I don't know and I continue to let unexamined thoughts direct my life

>>108947699
I can put it in other other words if you like:
I think you're a retard and not really worth explaining myself to.

>>108947715
If you don't want people to know what you mean, why talk in the first place?

>>108947526
Only on wayland. It's the opposite on X.

>>108936295
What in the world are you talking about? I use Wayland on 7 different machines, most with 60Hz displays, a couple with 144Hz and I've never experienced any input lag. The input latency issue was worked out a year ago.

File: 1751198811937184.jpg (303 KB, 828x714)

303 KB JPG

>>108947844
This isn't debate club you stupid faggot. I don't care what you think or that my "arguments" don't satisfy you. I'm just HOWLING INTO THE VOID, NIGGER!!!! And by the way, I don't need to try Hyprland to know that it's a mess. Am I going to explain how I "know" that? NO I'M NOT GONNA EXPLAIN IT HEHE!!!!

>>108937033
i've only ever gotten as far as running weston, because as soon as i move the mouse i nope back out of it

>>108937033
wait it's even worse in xwayland programs? i haven't used wayland long enough to try xwayland

>>108947886
Obviously not. I'm just wondering why you would waste your time on something pointless like that. I can also say whatever I like here and the angry flailing about you're doing doesn't really bother me. It's just noise on this site.

>>108936295
>>108937033
>latency in wayland is fine*
>*except for the cursor and xwayland (games), you know, the two places were you care about latency the most

>>108947016
>Looks inside
>Its just window properties all the way down
>The terminal doesn't even know how to do this itself (Yakuake just works)
There are definitely similarly hacky scripts you can make to do this on Wayland. If you were using Sway, for example, its IPC has everyone need for this. On KDE there are KWin scripts that do the same too.

>>108947927
XWayland is meant to be a stop-gap. We want to discourage its use because applications are meant to write native Wayland backends.

Probably, you can go to these developers and explain to them that the latency of their application is bad under XWayland and then get them to port it natively to Wayland. Most toolkits have already made the jump so unless it's some really custom shit then most developers have no excuses anymore. Even fucking Discord now supports Wayland.

>>108947925
To me, Hyprland is pointless

>>108947953
Steam still doesn't even if CEF does

>>108947958
Latency in the Steam client is irrelevant. Their web view is already crappy enough as it is.

>>108947953
One day more than exactly 1 backend will support enough wayland features for the effort of developing for wayland to make sense. That day has not yet come in 20 years and is unlikely to come in another 20, though. Until then, it makes a lot more sense to just drop linux altogether rather than try to support 50 different wayland backends, especially for solo or small team devs, which are most software in practice.

>>108947965
That's definitely a viable option. Proton/Wine has native Wayland support now. You could just ship a Windows .exe file as long as it runs okay. Still many popular apps like Notpad++, etc, don't have native Linux builds. They run completely fine in Wine though.

>>108947974
Only the most retarded 0 iq niggers have ever used notepad++ lmao. Literally the worst text app the world has ever seen, wangblowstards must be desperate to even so much as consider it. Every single DE's pre-shipped text editor has 10x the features while actually having good controls, being far faster, and just werking, while notepad++ is so anti-productive it's literally more effective to use plain notepad.

>>108947997
I agree completely. I'd rather use KDE's Kate any day. It was just an example of an app that could theoretically run on Linux but they can't be bothered to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintilla_(software)

Obviously, it's the more complicated software out there like the Adobe Suite that are going to have issues with the Wine compatibility layer but for simple apps, if you really can't be bothered with Linux and X11 and Wayland, etc, then just shipping a Windows build that runs in Wine is fine.

>>108948008
Yeah, so long as you support wine officially (I don't remember what but I know there's at least one or two programs that do this), it's unfortunately the more likely path here. But the problem is purely wayland, and the fact it lets everyone get away with 50 'edition' of wayland to still be called wayland, as it were. Anything that targets X11 will work everywhere, even on wayland via xwayland, just with degraded performance on wayland and some missing features. "Linux desktop is fragmented and impossible to target" used to be a meme by retards who couldn't into linux, but nowadays it's actually very real.

>>108948043
It makes more sense when you realise it was designed as a protocol for embedded devices, cars, infotainment systems, etc.

Desktops adopted it later and the design of the protocol is deliberately small to not encumber all of those use-cases that don't need a desktop.

Actually, though, a lot of the time you do find yourself needing a desktop compositor even in those situations. KDE's KWin is in some german cars and they picked this specifically because of its feature-set that they wanted and needed.

I think the people designing the Wayland protocol didn't actually know what the industry wanted or needed, they just hoped that the industry would adopt it after the fact.

>>108948066
Did you ask the ai to tell you this? It was always designed for desktop from the start. It was specifically designed to supposedly fix design flaws of x for desktop, with special focus on desktop security and tearfree/"perfect frame every time" rendering, concepts that are completely irrelevant in car systems that don't run arbitrary programs downloaded from the internet by the user and live in constraint hardware that would much rather tear than need to cost 10x more.

>>108948258
>It was always designed for desktop from the start
False. Look up the different shells Wayland has like the Ivi shell. Desktop shells didn't come until later and even then they were severely limited until the development of more supporting protocols.

>>108948268
Although to be fair, most of this stuff was all rapidly developing at the same time. It was a while until the first actually usable Wayland desktop though.

>>108935782
vsync and rust only implementation.

>>108948296
It had Vsync from the start. "Every frame is perfect" was its motto.
Smithay has a Rust only implementation (it's what Cosmic uses):
https://github.com/Smithay/smithay

>>108948268
>something that was made 15 years after the protocol was thought of is proof that it was never designed for what the creators loudly proclaimed it was designed for
Stop relying on ai to make up shit that never happened, bozo.

>>108948308
Yeah, I recall at the beginning you weren't even allowed to not have vsync or some shit.

>>108948310
That's how long it took to go from proof of concept to usable product.

It wasn't really until Fedora started shipping GNOME Wayland by default as recently as last year that it became really usable on the desktop and that was after lots of updates to xdg_shell, the gtk_shell, various other auxiliary protocols, etc.

>>108935782
it's about time to create a truly modern alternative without redhat and the desktop mafia, reminder that wayland is barely a few years older than xorg the most used X11 implemetation, it was never about xorg because impossible to maintain like they pretend...

>>108948315
They wanted to avoid the tearing mistake that X11 made. From the start they made sure everything was always perfectly synchronised and then eventually after Valve and esports gaymers complained loudly enough a tearing control protocol was made.

>>108935782
We need sane global hotkeys. Or like a switch that turns them on. One button bind and being able to use one button for more stuff. Specially for OBS btw. Rn I just run it with XWayland.

>>108948349
Tearing is not even a mistake. Vsync should be something an application explicitly asks for. Not something that is implicitly forced on everything.

Also, a lot of the tearing issues over the last 10-15 years are not even the fault of X11, X11 has working vsync, but gpu manufacturers fucked up their frame buffer timing causing tearing even when x11 is performing vsync correctly.

>>108948392
The problem is that doing vsync per-application does not work by definition, either you synchronise everything to the vblank or nothing.

The point about driver issues is a good one though when you consider the DDX driver mess that Xorg has. Some of those drivers are barely maintained or require specific options to do vsync properly. Probably most people should be using the modesetting driver with X11 these days but still you will find people recommending you install some pile of xf86-* driver crap instead.

>>108948349
stop using propaganda language
“tearing protocol”…
it’s vsync that was forced by default and they just gave up on that so now we can disable it

it’s the same thing with the wm+compositor being default

wayland is just redhat’s attempt at cutting costs, if any of it claims were real OpenBSD would’ve adopted it because they don’t care about anything else besides security

>>108948445
OpenBSD is adopting it. There are already ports of it to FreeBSD and OpenBSD. Nobody uses BSD on the desktop though, not even their own executive director:
https://www.phoronix.com/news/FreeBSD-On-Laptop-Driver

>>108948460
OpenBSD presentation on Wayland specifically:
https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2023-matthieu-wayland-openbsd.pdf

(There may be more up-to-date stuff somewhere. I don't know. I don't follow OpenBSD)

>>108948439
per-application vsync works perfectly fine. Its pretty trivial. Its simply a delayed BitBlt. We wait for vsync and then perform the BitBlt during the retrace period. I don't know the details of how this works in X11, but it does work.

Only problem is due to the fucked up frame buffer on modern cards, the tear ends up in middle of the screen. Even though x11 is correctly waiting for retrace. On my RDNA4 card, the default prefetch buffer is 1536KB in size.This completely ruins X11 vsync. Ever since Vista gpu manufacturers have given the finger to non-composited desktops. They need to be forced to fix their broken shit.

File: 42.gif (259 KB, 550x839)

259 KB GIF

>>108948460
> OpenBSD is adopting it
No it isn’t. Theo de Raadt has the final say and he doesn’t like it.
(not gonna bother looking for the email on the mailing list, sorry)
> There are already ports of it
Ports aren’t rejected based on the developers opinion, this isn’t Void Linux. Besides Matthieu and a few shills, none of the OG devs are doing anything.
> OpenBSD presentation on Wayland specifically:
https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2023-matthieu-wayland-openbsd.pdf
That is from Matthieu, a Xorg dev who happens to also be one from OpenBSD. Of course he’s gonna favor RedHat’s Wayland.

OpenBSD is more decentralized than it looks. Unless Theo or someone like Tedu give any hints, there’s no real proof.

> Nobody uses BSD on the desktop
BSDs aren’t a monolith like Linux. OpenBSD devs all use it on the desktop and for most it’s their only OS from routers to desktops.
> not even their own executive director
Yeah that’s FreeBSD for you. Just as corporate as Linux.

>>108948569
>That is from Matthieu, a Xorg dev who happens to also be one from OpenBSD. Of course he’s gonna favor RedHat’s Wayland.
Isn't it interesting that all of the developers that actually work on Xorg tend to favour Wayland though? I wonder why that is?

So yes, Theo may not make the switch any time soon but the work is happening even if Xenocara still remains the default and they have to maintain the entirety of it themselves now.

File: 36.jpg (412 KB, 550x832)

412 KB JPG

>>108948592
> Isn't it interesting that all of the developers that actually work on Xorg tend to favour Wayland though? I wonder why that is?
Because they are employees before being developers. They are just doing as their boss RedHat (IBM) told.
> So yes, Theo may not make the switch any time soon but the work is happening even if Xenocara still remains the default
Yeah… ? Good thing it is, if RedHat wants to have a chance they should do more work instead of trying to FOMO everyone into thinking Wayland is inevitable
> and they have to maintain the entirety of it themselves now.
During the XFree86 debacle, Theo threatened forking it. That means forking wasn’t a problem 20 years ago, and so it also isn’t today, as the project is now miles ahead in every metric since that time.

>>108948660
FUD*, I meant

>>108948445
openplacebo say XYZ is bloat and insecure then 30 years later implement a very very low-quality copy of it and pretend they invented the whole notion. They don't know shit about anything.

>>108947953
>Even fucking Discord now supports Wayland.
Discord doesn't have any wayland code. It uses electron so its electron that added support for wayland (and desktop portal, which isn't part of wayland).

>>108948922
Obviously, that's why they were a hold out for so long because upstream Electron never enabled it for so long.

It just goes to show just how much toolkits have the support in place now.

>>108948660
>They are just doing as their boss RedHat (IBM) told.
People have free will you know, you ever consider that maybe Xorg is an ancient trash from the 80s and we're way overdue for a better solution?

>>108949010
We are overdue for a better solution, not for a worse solution that works worse than Xorg 20 years after it started development with infinite money and dev time and effort behind it when Xorg required fuckall and just werked forever.

>>108949025
>Xorg required fuckall
Kek do you seriously think Xorg just appeared out of nowhere? You Xorgtrannies are hilarious

>>108949033
Show me the $100b industry that developed xorg for 20 years before it was finally usable. I'll wait.

>>108949048
Sure, I'll do it after you post your mom's nudes here

File: 57.jpg (2.57 MB, 1404x2124)

2.57 MB JPG

>>108949010
> maybe Xorg is an ancient trash
Theo de Raadt and Ted Unangst disagree. Tedu even implemented shit Xorg employees keep telling are impossible in X11, because it’s all propaganda
> from the 80s
… and? Vim is from the 80s too. An OpenBSD devs overwhelmingly use the original vi instead, which is from the 70s
> we're way overdue for a better solution
Not really, though that would be nice. Wayland doesn’t provides any solutions that X11 can’t though. That is, besides easing RedHat’s pockets.

Reminder that when X was 20 years old, it had already been more capable than Wayland since it’s first 5 years.

>>108949091
>Theo de Raadt and Ted Unangst disagree
No one cares what some BSD autists think, these people have bigger problems than moving on to Wayland because they haven't even figured out basic shit like journaling filesystem yet.

>>108949135
Don't they still use UFS garbage?
Obviously, FreeBSD has ZFS (OpenBSD notably doesn't) but besides that, only Dragonfly with their Hammer filesystem seems to know what a modern filesystem should be.

>>108935782
> 20 years of “development”
> still worse than a 40-year-old, 20-years-unmaintained codebase
seriously, how do they cope?

File: CHIX_DIG.gif (116 KB, 504x674)

116 KB GIF

>>108949193
> Don't they still use UFS garbage?
Yes. FreeBSD too defaults to UFS btw.
I wonder why?
> what a modern filesystem should be
A filesystem should attend the needs of its users. UFS does that for both OpenBSD and FreeBSD, the latter which even defaults to it, even though they offer ZFS too because they have users who need that :-)

>>108949275
>I wonder why?
Because BSDs are trash.

>>108949356
This.
To add, freebsd's zfs is actually now based on the linux implementation of zfs that was originally based on the freebsd version, but turns out the linux one is far more stable, faster, and better written despite having been created in a fraction of the time by a fraction of the team.

>>108949275
>A filesystem should attend the needs of its users
Clearly most users must have no need for compression, snapshots, or even keeping your data safe (integrity checks) then.

Might as well just run

dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdX

all over it.

>>108948386
hyprland has this

>>108949577
So does Sway, hell even GNOME and KDE can do that so I'm not sure what's so difficult for them.

>>108935782
Does it have CLI tool to change keyboard like setxkbmap? That was really my only snaggle last time I tried it several years ago.

>>108948660
> During the XFree86 debacle, Theo threatened forking it
holy shit it's true
TOTAL WAYLAND DEATH

>>108949657
You have to use whatever tools your compositor provides as its your compositor that handles input. Sway, for example, can change all of that in its config or via its IPC. I think Hyprland has tools for that too, KDE and GNOME probably has something too even if it's some awful DBus thing.

>>108935782
fuck you and fuck wayland

https://nocoffei.com/?p=451

>>108949756
Kinda annoying. I wanted to be able to learn the command and be able to count on it anywhere. I don't want to have to apply a dwl patch just for this.

>>108949875
Wayland was written for functional human beings. We don't do DEI handouts here /s

>>108935782
You can't even select a main screen, still. Something that has caused MULTIPLE compatibility breaking bugs that X just does not have.

>>108949397
>zfs that was originally based on the freebsd version, but turns out the linux one is far more stable, faster, and better written despite having been created in a fraction of the time by a fraction of the team
You have no idea what you're talking about. ZFS on linux wasn't "created in a fraction of the time", it just went from ZFS being ported from illumos to linux to linux becoming the primary development and other platforms being ported from it. The reason the ZFS-on-linux "team" was smaller before was because they were only responsible for porting code to Linux, and most of those same people did upstream development.

>more stable, faster
It's not any faster, and it's also been less stable and buggier, like the 2.2.0 block cloning bug or the 2.2.1 checksum bug. Those were the most serious bugs I've ever seen make it into ZFS release. They're also, ironically, slower at supporting new Linux kernels than before. Before zfs-on-linux was the primary, they only needed to update their Linux compatibility tweaks and they could have support for new Linux kernels within a day or two, now new Linux kernel support is tied to feature releases so they're slower and have more opportunity for bugs.

>>108950446
>you're wrong because you're right
>therefore my shitty joke os isn't a joke pls don't laff
lolol

>>108950456
>>you're wrong because you're right
Can you point out where I said ZFS on linux was a separate project or that it's been more stable, better written, or faster since the switch? I don't even use BSD/Illumos, I think moving to Linux-first development was ultimately the right choice since literally no one uses Illumos, but it definitely hasn't been beneficial for the actual quality of the software.

>>108950320
Windows spawn on whatever your focused screen is. Simple as.
Any other desired behaviour is the product of someone who belongs in a mental asylum.

>>108940128
>>108940378
fedora KDE is literally top 3 distros. Keep seething stinkpad arch transgenders

>>108940128
>*KRASHES*
You stuck in Plasma 5 or something?

File: file.png (85 KB, 1166x657)

85 KB PNG

>>108940409
I came here to post this: >>108940488
Sheesh that was hard.

File: 1766883112970.webm (3.79 MB, 1762x762)

3.79 MB WEBM

Works on my machine

File: jigglypuff laughing.png (53 KB, 398x399)

53 KB PNG

>>108940000
Made me spill it. Bravo.
Also, quads of truth.

>>108940162
>dbus
Can you spy on my keyboard input from another app using dbus?

>>108947165
>wayland has higher cursor latency
Source for that?
Or did you just pull that measurement out of your ass?

>>108944415
>>108937033
>latency is mainly a xwayland problem
Source?

>>108952150
>l-l-l-l-l-l-inux isnt tinker tranny shit!!! dats o-o-o-o--nly if u use gentoo or some shit!!!!!
>w-what? pp-p-p-ip doesnt work? what do you mean? heh, youre such a n00b...

>>108952238
Why does anyone care about this "problem". Only install programs you trust, and sandbox the ones you don't (ie run in a browser).

>>108952255
https://davidjusto.com/articles/m2p-latency/#results

>>108952256
Firefox has had support for the PiP protocol for ages now:
https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/3612

These tinker trannies are using older versions of Firefox or random forks of Firefox, etc.

>>108952530
And the bug report / merge in Firefox:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1970372

This is proper PiP that has been there for a year now. Only people having to tinker tranny their way around it are those using ancient versions of KDE and/or Firefox.

>>108952259
How do you sandbox X11 properly in a performant manner (i.e with working GPU acceleration)?

We're only just getting that now with XWayland satellite on Wayland.

I'm convinced the people that say to sandbox X11 as if that solves all the braindead problems with its security deficiencies have never actually tried to do so. It's noteworthy how they never mention how to do that just vague promises that it's possible.

File: ebasedi.png (172 KB, 460x460)

172 KB PNG

>>108952748
Why do you need to sandbox X11 properly in a performant manner? If you don't trust what you're running, run it in a VM or on a sacrificial computer.

>>108952250
Not him. Historically this was true. You had an option of how many frames you would buffer. But now KDE defaults to the lowest latency which is identical to X11. There is no cursor latency any more and hasn't been for 3 years.
X11 year old loving pedophiles still repeat this though because they have nothing left.

Wayland is better than x11 for gaming.
>multi-display VRR
>proper mixed refresh support
>HDR
Bonus:
>fractional scaling

>>108952773
wait when did it get multi display VRR and is it real support or only on KrashDE?

>>108952762
Sometimes the thing you don't trust is a video game or other 3D application.

>>108952773
How is it better when you don't even have proper cursor, how will you play your shitty games? How many people actually need HDR and how many need working cursor and decent latency? Check most popular resolutions on steam to know what people actually use.

>>108952788
either grow up or only play open source ones you can audit with LLMs

>>108952798
That's not going to happen. People like ebussy need their children's entertainment.

>>108952796
Most people don't play esports titles and of those that do they play them on Windows anyway.

I would say there's probably more people that care about HDR working than the 0.0000001% of esports gamers that run Linux for some random reason.

>>108935782
xlibre is the future, 40 more years of x

>>108952788
Why don't you trust those?

>>108952837
Do you need a specific reason to distrust potentially sketchy proprietary software with full access to your entire PC?
Pick your favourite reason from the giant list of reasons.

>>108952848
So you're okay with giving it full access to your filesystem, your GPU, all your hardware, but letting it see where the mouse cursor is when it's not over the window is just a step too far. Got it.

>>108952848
if you're so desperately addicted to gaymen that you're willing to compromise your system for it you have problems that neither X or Wayland can solve

>>108952853
If you sandbox all of that but not the display server too then you just left a giant hole in it.
>>108952854
It's not just video games.

>>108952858
You really think a malicious program can't exploit you through your display server, your GPU driver, or your kernel?

None of these are rock solid security boundaries. If you don't trust what you're running, run it in a VM and accept the price of security. Better yet, fix whatever childhood trauma you have that's causing you to exert control over imaginary bits on your computer because you can't control your actual life. I swear, so many IT fags are like this.

>>108952876
>You really think a malicious program can't exploit you through your display server, your GPU driver, or your kernel?
Nobody's burning a zero day vulnerability in the kernel to target you. That's science fiction. You're not that important.

When you don't even have a sandbox in the first place though then they don't even have to resort to such measures. It's trivial for them to attack you.

>>108952887
Just like no commercial video game or other 3d software is gonna spy on your mouse movements when it's not focused. The damage to their reputation would simply not be worth it.
Besides, the other major operating systems let programs see whatever they want and this kind of spying is not a thing.
It's all a huge nothing burger.

>>108952934
Did you not get the memo? On other platforms they run actual spyware kernel modules IN THE ACTUAL KERNEL.
We are quite lucky on Linux where that sort of thing doesn't happen but still you shouldn't let your guard down.

>>108948592
>all of the developers that actually work on Xorg tend to favour Wayland
20 years is half a career, if wayland doesnt work what does their resume say

Windows has hardware cursor since 3.11

>>108952963
Linux has hardware cursors and overlay planes too. KDE at least tries to use them but sometimes the hardware or drivers are buggy.

>>108952971
How does linux still get mogged by OS from 80s

>>108952971
I should add, they also come with a bunch of hardware imposed constraints too. Sometimes it's not possible to use them because the hardware won't let you.
>>108952978
Because the hardware is crap. I think only Intel implements this stuff properly, even on AMD there are situations where you can't use this stuff properly.

>>108952963
hyprland has that

>>108952984
>Because the hardware is crap.
No excuse when jeetdows has been using hardware cursor from crappy hardware in 80s to bloat RTX slop of today

>>108940274
> Waybar crashes if you restart mpd,
Running vlc for 24hours on wayland+gnome locks up the desktop, requiring a killall -3 gnome-shell which closes random apps.
I’m going back to x11, at least appsuicide didn’t take orhers with it.

>>108953251
sounds like vibecoded crap

>>108952998
That's not true.

>>108953352
https://wiki.hypr.land/Configuring/Basics/Variables/#cursor

>>108952783
Pretty much every wayland WM/DE session supports multi display VRT
>>108952796
>How is it better when you don't even have proper cursor
I have a cursor on my Wayland sessions.
>How many people actually need HDR
You don't need 120hz or 1440p either but HDR is better than SDR
>and how many need working cursor
My cursor works fine
>and decent latency
I did latency testing with a 500fps camera and there was no difference between Windows, X11 and Wayland when I use a frame cap to stay in VRR range.
At least on KDE, Wayland has no latency issues and hasn't in years. They literally removed the option to increase buffered frame count and it defaults to the lowest.

>>108952984
>Because the hardware is crap
ah yes typical Linux loosers blaming the hardware because their shitty OS doesn't support it.
Somehow it just werks in Windows though. Why? Uhhh... proprietary Microsoft black magic, o algo.

>>108944415
I promise I can put i3wm and sway side by side and sway will have more latency with forced vsync. Maybe when both are composited they are identical, but uncomposited x11 has less latency.

>>108953805
>ah yes typical Linux loosers blaming the hardware because their shitty OS doesn't support it.
The laptop I use doesn't support windows at all, must be because windows is a shitty OS. Or maybe it's the hardware's fault? Who's fault is it?

>>108953873
You and your shitty netbook need to be dumped at the nearest landfill.

>>108953910
lol if his "laptop" doesn't work on Windows it's probably not a real laptop, just something he duct taped together out of a raspberry pi or some other e-waste product

File: 1754619785501791.png (97 KB, 522x379)

97 KB PNG

>>108953910
>>108953921

>>108953380
Yes but it's placebo, not real independent hardware cursor like in Xorg and Windows.

>>108952259
>Only install programs you trust
Sweet innocence.
I guarantee you you have used applications that cannot be trusted.
Of course you would never admit it.

>>108952268
Based. I'll save this for when the "Wayland has more latency" fags show up with nothing to back their claims.

>>108947139
Yes. Your point being?
If you really want to turn off Vsync you can do that.
Or you can not be retarded and use VRR.

>>108944573
>duopoly
This. I think the monopoly laws should extend to 4 or 5 competitors minimum.
We would all benefit from it.

A purpose

>>108954847
t. commie
Learn basic economics. Concentrated markets are always orders of magnitude more efficient than fragmented ones, provided it's a reasonably free market.

But also the analogy is nonsense anyway. No it's not even close to a duopoly when chromium-based browsers have 35x the market share of firefox. And it is 100% fully compatible with wayland in the technical sense. The core protocol is just barebones and practically useless without extensions for a modern desktop. Wayland client and server implementations just need to agree on what common extensions to use.

>>108952268
> highly unusal setup: 360 Hz monitor
> Wayland still worse than X11
> Uncomposited X11 is never tested
Worthless test.

>>108953493
> there was no difference between Windows, X11 and Wayland
Uncomposited X11 still will beat Wayland easily in latency metrics.
Similarly pre DWM.exe era Windows will beat modern Windows.
If you compare Wayland with composited X11 and modern Windows which are really shit you are basically saying Wayland is as good as shit.

>>108953493
>They literally removed the option to increase buffered frame count and it defaults to the lowest.
They did that after adding dynamic triple buffering mind you, so there still might be extra buffering but only if your hardware is too shit to keep up.

>>108955124
Without compositing you don't even get transparency or shadows on X11. Some would call that shit too, especially the way garbage GTK applications look without composition.

>>108952934
>this kind of spying is not a thing
How fucking naive can you be to think actual useful software has not been bundled with spyware in the past, or had it's executable modified.
You think everything is always perfectly sound and this can't happen to you?

Wayland gives me the peace of mind that at least this vector of attack is plugged for ALL APPS.
I don't have to worry if my Teams Electron app or whatever else is trustworthy enough and is spying on my passwords and windows. I know it is not allowed to.

>>108955275
> you don't even get transparency or shadows
I prefer lower latency over fancy useless effects.
X11 gives me that choice. Wayland doesn't.

>>108955275
> transparency or shadows
useless gimmicks.

>>108955363
>>108955372
But it looks like shit without it because they designed their apps with the intention of them working. Literal disgusting as fuck ghoulish black boxes everywhere.
>The latency is great though! I'm so glad my typewriter lacks shadows and transparency.

>>108935782
>its been nearly 20 years
And I still use X and never felt like switching.
Imagine all those dev hours wasted on something that's inherently garbage.

>>108955405
> GTK looks like shit
Since gtk 3.0 This is true with or without effects.

>>108955448
Whether you like it or not the whole industry has been using shadows and transparency since Vista and it's making a bit of a comeback with Apple's liquid glass, modern Android, or Windows 11. It's only a matter of time until this infects Linux too

>>108955124
Yeah but that has tearing and tearing is retarded. Vsynced solutions has absolutely no difference.
I play my games with a frame cap in VRR so there is zero difference between X11 latency and Wayland latency for me.

File: 1753387079995.jpg (30 KB, 735x533)

30 KB JPG

>when I switch off vsync my latency is lower
no fucking shit

>>108955523
If you write text in some editor or terminal without vsync you will notice the better latency while typing but you will never see tearing because the updated glyph rectangle is very small compared to the rest of the screen.
On the other hand if you scroll large pages without vsync you will notice tearing.
This means: ideally the application decides itself by context whether or not to use vsync. And then it's not even a tradeoff. You can get the best of both worlds.
X11 allows you to do that. Wayland doesn't.

>>108955577
You aren't noticing a frame of latency when typing. 16ms (assuming you are a 60hz shitter) has zero impact and is imperceptible on desktop tasks.
Meanwhile, tearing when moving windows and missing desktop effects is perceptible.

In fact, I want kwin to add an fps cap feature. Then you could keep your desktop in the VRR window for vsync-off latency with no downsides.

>>108955607
> 16ms (assuming you are a 60hz shitter) has zero impact and is imperceptible on desktop tasks.
Wrong. Studies by Microsoft found that humans notice every latency down to 1ms.
As long as you don't have a 1 kHz refresh rate display vsync will be noticeable.

>>108955648
You aren't noticing a frame of latency when typing. 16ms (assuming you are a 60hz shitter) has zero impact and is imperceptible on desktop tasks. There is no desktop task where a frame of latency has an effect. Vsync and missing desktop effects are perceptible though.
In gaming you would have an argument, but frame-capped VRR makes this a non issue.

>>108955275
> transparency or shadows
wtf? no one cares about useless shit like that besides “designers” trying to justify keeping their worthless job

NO USE CASE

see GNOME

>>The latency is great though! I'm so glad my typewriter lacks shadows and transparency.
Yes. Unironically.

>>108956691
It wouldn't be so bad if they designed a fallback for systems without compositors but they never do. There's just ugly black boxes clashing with everything everywhere.

>>108949193
>what a modern filesystem should be
lol

>>108956691
>wtf? no one cares about useless shit like that besides “designers” trying to justify keeping their worthless job
Fuck you. I want utilitarian functionality and pretty graphics. It should not be a case of either/or, and the whole point of full-stack devs should be so you can end up with robust software that doesn't look like a 90s hollywood hackerino segment.
Having options is never a bad thing unless you're retarded and can't make your mind up so you half ass everything(see: Linux anything). Nobody is spending fuckshits of money on ultra modern hardware so you can make the GUI look like a WinXP clone. If (You) want that look, then that's great. But saying there's no use-case is like saying there's no point in padding aeroplane seats because all it does is add weight.

>>108956691
>screen tearing
>no hardware accelerated drawing
>no desktop effects
>making shit up
Posts like yours is why nobody takes X11 users seriously. You're simply tech illiterate or poor.

>>108952765
>still repeat this though because they have nothing left
That's what I see a lot from Wayland detractors.
Old ass facts that are not true anymore.

>>108935782
>what is it still missing in 2026?
Spending a whole year trying to make it user friendly and usable, you shouldn't need to go through hoops to do basic shit that not even windows or macos that they're taking as a reference for doing this shit do.
It's good to have security, but it shouldn't come at the expense of making the OS a chore to use.

File: marth sword head.jpg (54 KB, 640x480)

54 KB JPG

>>108952783
>when did it get multi display VRR
Jesus, I don't know man. That was years ago.

>>108952796
>you don't even have proper cursor
What the fuck are you even talking about?

>How many people actually need HDR
Anyone that uses their computer for multimedia, like movies or games. So, an awful lot of people.

>Check most popular resolutions on steam
So we should pass on support for scaling and resolutions like 4K and 5K because fewer people use them?
Nice logic.

>>108955198
You can disable that just in case.
I did with KWIN_DRM_DISABLE_TRIPLE_BUFFERING=1

>>108955124
>Uncomposited X11
You're mixing "uncomposited" with screentearing because you have Vsync disabled on uncomposited X11. Enable it and the latency will be the same.
If you REALLY want screen-tearing, you can do that on Wayland too.

And no, no one uses a computer with screen-tearing anymore. Not after VRR exists.

>>108956691
>>108955372
>>108955363
Having no screentearing is essential for a comfortable desktop experience. Do you really need those extra 8 milliseconds for desktop usage?
You know you can play with games with screentearing on Wayland if you really need it, right?

File: 1759282426307613.jpg (17 KB, 160x160)

17 KB JPG

Not like this X11sters!!How are we being raped and gaped this bad!!!!!
Surely it's not completely over?!???

>>108952962
>if wayland doesnt work
All major distros use Wayland by default. It works.