>>108944409Use case for the minimize button if X does the same?
>>108944409Completely removing the context of the current run.>>108944418It doesn't. It's a weird mix between "exit and purge memory" and "just hide the window while I do something else".
make it make sense
>>108944418In the traditional Mac OS workflow you could only have one copy of a given application open at a time (this was a hard, baked in limit in pre-OSX macs' memory model). Separate windows were for, for example, separate documents opened with the same program. This has broken down slowly over time as Macs haven't been limited by the weird archaic memory model they used to have since the move to Mach kernel, but still it forms a lot of the default UI assumptions.
>macOS>can either close a window or close the application>Windows>can only close the application unless it explicitly allows to do otherwise
what is the usecase for applications running without any windows when the app is not explicitly a background process?
>>108944530It 'starting up' faster. So they point is to trick normies.
>>108944409Fully exited apps don't take up any RAM or CPU, which is nice if you don't have tons of RAM, or have a laptop since unused CPU is extra battery life.
>>108944460It doesnt exit nor purge the memory.
>>108944494>>108944530https://blog.xoria.org/macos-tips/>Something that often trips up people new to macOS is that the system is application-oriented rather than window-oriented (as Windows is): on macOS apps “contain” their windows, while on Windows an app’s windows are the app. This single difference in philosophy explains why the Windows taskbar lists open windows (or at least used to), while the Mac’s Dock lists apps, which in turn list their windows when right-clicked. It’s also why the App Switcher () lists apps, while Windows’ Task Switcher (Alt+Tab) lists windows.>A frequent source of confusion for new Mac users is how apps don’t quit when you close their last window – when you close the last Safari window you still see “Safari” in the menu bar which only vanishes if you quit the app entirely. Though we now know why this is the case on a philosophical level, what’s the reason practically? Keep in mind that the menu bar is a central place listing every command available to the user: even with no windows open, having access to an app’s menu bar is still a useful thing! The menu bar provides access to the entirety of an app’s functionality, window or no window.
>>108944584app nap exists and makes this not true since maverick
>>108944409>let me take my mouse>then hover over the red button>then do a left clicknobody does this, just Cmd+Q
>>108944972??those aren't the same things.cmd+w is the keyboard shortcut for closing a window.
this is because mac os x had freebsd people at the top back then.it's the gui transposition of the bsd daemon concept.it uses less battery, cpu, ram, and was also supposed to make IPC easier as they went hard on message passing between apps (applescript etc) early on.I think it's one of the good things from an era where the desktop concept was still up for change.the idea that once you close a program, you have to re-run and load it in memory entirely every time is comical, the tray area on windows being full of shit today trying to recreate that shows apple struck the right chord on day 1.
>Turn off wifi on ipad to save power>Explicity get a tooltip saying "Oh, we'll turn it back on in a few days :)" Uhhhhhhhhhh why are you the one deciding that?? If I turn off the wifi, it's supposed to be off until I say so.The hardware is good, but man the software is some cucked shit
>>108944409Never understood why people are so addicted to apps. They increase your attack surface. They constantly collect telemetry on you. They take up storage space. Just use a solid browser.
>>108945012>>108944957>on windows kill explorer.exe and the desktop dies, but Win+R still works and you can use any program>on linux switch to a tty and nuke the whole graphical session>on mac try to quit Finder>Finder: "no">realize Finder is less an app and more a state religion
>>108944418X doesn't do the same thing.
>>108945012false, classic mac os worked the same. classic mac os wasn't related to freebsd.
>>108944516There’s nothing stopped macOS devs from exiting the application when all the windows are closed. It’s just the default and devs are going for MVPs. Defaults rarely change when you’re trying to push a product out the door.
>>108945111Not a single iToddler on this planet will be able to explain the difference.
>>108945188it's not the default for swiftui window scene apps. those will quit when you close the window. there are multiple such apps from apple that do this like settings.app.
>>108945232wrong.a minimized app window gets put into the dock. every retard can see the difference.
>>108945057You can show the "Quit" option for Finder with a defaults command https://macos-defaults.com/finder/quitmenuitem.html
>>108944549t. microsoft manager
>>108945350ms is clueless
>>108945232They can, you can't.
>>108944409use case for shutting off the PC?
>>108945963op has a mac now. she's never going to turn on her pc again.
>>108945963>use case for shutting off the PC?Applying group policies.Back when I was a junior I had a boss that thought fast startup is a good thing and refused to disable it. On desktops.Deploying any policy changes was a fucking nightmare.
>>108945046Itoddler btfo as always
>>108944418titlebar deserves only one button and it is maximize, the only button you deserve.
use case for "use case" threads?
I could recall one use case for having the ability to close a window instead of the fucking program4 years ago I remember using Word and having to print multiple similar files with slightly different parameters (I think just how many copies) while preserving some settings that for whatever reason would go away if Word was closed. It also took longer to open a document if Word was closed. So I had to always keep a fucking file open for no other reason than working on subsequent files that weren't that one.
>>108944409>>108944494>>108944530>>108945232if I want to quit the app, I’ll quit the appif I want to just close a window, I’ll close the windowa running app (like a text editor or a web browser) with no open windows (usually a temporary state of affairs) makes total sense to meI’m not done editing files or looking at pages; I just don’t have any ready to go at the moment, and I expect to get back to it soon enough and I don’t want the program to drop out of the command-tab list (command-tab is per-app; command-backtick is windows-in-app)
The thing that bothers me the most about this retardation is how MS have decided to copy the absolutely absurd "window grouping by app" as the new default going forwards. Kids who didn't grow up with an actual computer will forever be closed off into a fucking retarded workflow of having to select a program, and THEN select which window they want from that program. Instead of just selecting the window from a handy omnipresent list.
>>108944409when you have 8gigs of ram every bit helps
>>108944957>>108944409Interesting. These are two different approaches to the same thing and neither is inherently wrong.
>>108947466how does keeping apps open help with ram?seems counter productive
>>108947535i mean the use case for closing it
>>108947428I use Openclaw, doesn't GAF if you have to click twice, it does it faster than any human could ever dream of. While you're worried about which archaich workflow to use I'm building agent frameworks that are transforming the future of software. We are not the same.
>>108944418Excellent point. That is why GNOME got rid of the maximize and minimize button.
>>108947666based enlightened gnome devs
>>108944409this has always annoyed the shit out of me and is a constant headache with my mom who is technologically retarded and doesn't understand that you have to go up to file and close the thing for some reason
>>108947269except that if there is only one window and you close it, there are no more windows. there is no excuse for this thing not to terminate the program if there is only one window left and you hit the red x
>>108944409macos is a desktop OS, you have multiple windows per applicationjeetdows/troonix are tablet OSes, you have one window per application
>>108945057>on mac try to quit Finder>Finder: "no"tech illiterate people shouldn't be allowed to use macOS
>>108945274swiftui is not native macOS framework, it's mobile phone shit for iOS and iPadOS that apple backported to macOS
>>108945232Minimize: move the window off the screen and stash it at the dock. The process(es) associated with that window are retained.Close window: the window is closed. The process(es) associated with it are closed.Exit program: the entire program is shut down.
>>108944508it's been 3 decades and they still haven't updated the UI
>>108945046meanwhile:>turn hotspot on on iPhone thats plugged in with full battery>it turns off unless you have devices connected to hotspot AND theyre sending packets every 90 seconds AND then there is a hard timeout for the hotspot no matter what
>>108947535when you start an app, the os has to assume that you want to use it and load it fully. no chance for app nap or ram compression to do its thing yet.
>>108944530spying on stupid goyim who ask too many questions, duh
>>108947745>tech illiterate people shouldn't be allowed to use macOSbut then they'd have no users left :)
>>108944418when you minimize, the window is still there or at least it still remain in the taskbar
>>108944508>This has broken down slowly over time??name apps that launch multiple instances of itself by default on mac
>>108944409what’s so hard about learning Cmd+Q?
>>108948281it's dangerous>The Mac power user who reflexively selects the “Don’t Save” button for one document after another when quitting an application with many open windows, only to accidentally lose the one document that actually had important changes.
>>108944409Honestly, most macOS apps have nothing to do when their last window closes, so well behaved macOS apps do quit then.It's just not default behavior.
>>108948297>so well behaved macOS apps do quit thenname them
>>108948297>have nothing to do when their last window close>well behaved macOS apps do quit thenthat goes against macos's document model. those apps are not well behaved.apple hig only recommends that for single-window apps.
>>108948309Many of macOS' built in apps do this now, like the app store, System Settings, App Store, reminders...I guess Mail and Safari don't so they can still receive and display notifications.Applications that have nothing to do without a window should close when they have no more windows. It doesn't look like most devs got the memo and it's opt in, after all.
>>108948337single window apps quit, multi window apps don't quit
>>108948337>Many of macOS' built in apps do this now, like the app store, System Settings, App Store, reminders...those are single-window apps, not document-based apps. there's only ever one window.
