I don't like programming languages that require, insist upon or/and are a difficult to use without an IDE.There's nothing comfier than being able to just open a file in Vim, type stuff and compile it in a terminal.
>>108967297No language requires an IDE.
>>108967297IDEs are comfy when you're still learning a language and you want to check the docs without needing to close your code. Otherwise I hate them.
>>108967304Say that to Kotlin or Java. Technically no, but you will not be able to do anything meaningful without an IDE there. And even if you could somehow, it doesn't matter. My point is that an IDE is customary in those languages and I reject the premise.
>>108967297what in the flying fuck is that language ?
>>108967336Go? Although I wouldn't argue in favor of how it's written here, with long, wrapping lines.
>>108967336that code seems intentionally written to look confusing
>>108967304fpbp
>>108967304APL
>>108967363What's confusing about it?
>>108967297WTF is that scat? Is it rust?
>>108967374One struct and breaking the condition in the inner loop into multiple lines would make it easier for me to read
>>108967304
>>108967304Java requires an IDE. I'm sure others do too but Java is the most egregious example most people will know about. The fact that you do not already makes you smell weird.
>>108968208huh. I wrote quite a few Minecraft mods in Java and without an IDE.
>>108967304absolute smoothbrain take. fpwp.
>>108967297What I hate is runtimes. Or even worse a virtual machine. I need speeeeeed and powarrr.
vim, if you're holding it right, is an IDE
>>108968354Post examples.
>>108968533>>108967371 beat me to the best one.Any of the visually oriented flowchart shit that was popular in the '90s.HyperCard.
I refuse to write code without access to a powerful IDE with AI-integrated features. I'm not coding like some stone age caveman having to manually ctrl+h if I want to change the name of a struct member. And I'm not interested in manually debugging things, if my code has bugs, I want to just ask AI to "find the fucking bug" for me. 80% of the time it works and I don't have to waste my time debugging. When I do have to manually debug, the IDE makes that faster and easier too.
>>108967297Use case for those languages? I program in C++ just fine using vim
>>108967297IDEs are the future you retard. If you aren't using an IDE you're wasting your time and stealing from your employer.
>>108968794i bet youre the most popular done in the cubicle farm
>>108967297>There's nothing comfier than being able to just open a file in Vim, type stuff and compile it in a terminal.of course there is. Having a REPL connection hooked up to the editor is much comfier.
>>108967371>>108968548He said IDE not IME.
>>108967297I agree with you to a great extent. Me personally I think giving up the compiler and a text editor and the option to use one of those programs is an inhibition on ability.
>>108967318>>108968208depends on what you do in java. jeetdroid? yes, you need it. backend services that, for example, connect to a database and a voip server? no, you don't *need* it. sure, having autocomplete and javadoc is nice, but you might as well open javadoc in your browser and just use whatever editor you want to.
>>108967297NIGGER!
>>108967297I haven't touched an IDE since Claude Code launched, sorry boomer but you are outdated
>>108967297all languages should at least have an ide that lets me tap f8 to run a line or paragraph at will.
have you seen Zigger's interview? LSP, IDEs.."they" were "us", a freemen in the past, thats why they know how to trick me into complexity, thats a tooling bait commies were talking about:> Marx — tools as means of production: Tools are part of the means of production that, with labor power, create value. Changes in tools (technology) transform social relations and class structure because whoever controls the means of production controls production and surplus value.
>>108968514nah, those who try making IDE from vim always fail, hehehe. seethe and dilate
>>108967297How are you going to use AI without an IDE? Surely not copy-pasting things from a separate window like a snailcat, RIGHT?(You) ARE using AI for everything, RIGHT? (You) ARE NOT a silly snailcat luddite chud, RIGHT?
>>108967304Try compiling a jar with dependencies lol
>>108969801you will never be a coder chad, even with AI youre biologically a snailcat, AI is not a part of your body/brain, it is completely detached.copy-paste coders were laughing stock before AI:> A "copy-paste coder" is a developer who stitches together solutions by borrowing snippets from tutorials, forums, or repositories without fully unraveling how they work; like a writer who lifts passages to patch a story, the coder assembles functional prose of logic that may run but often lacks the deeper craft—glossing over why each line belongs, leaving brittle seams, unexplained dependencies, and a voice that isn't theirs.how can they become vibe gods with AI? its impossible. true coders will always be superior. no autocompletion, no hint popups.. because they are a mental distraction. copy-paste occasionally ofc.
>>108967297Can't imagine what's fun about changing a symbol name across many files manually. Text editors suck as an interface.
>>108969801Funny thing, I actually refuse to install any agents and when I do vibecode, I copy-paste and try to be aware of what I'm padtimg and where to retain a sense of what's changed and what's going on. Copypastimg is unironically the last frontier that separates complete vibecoder imbeciles from thinking people.
>>108971388literally, learn sed or ask AI to write it for you. Skill issue.
>>108971799What kind of terminal spell would you conjure for a situation where your codebase contains n instances of different symbols with the same name, and you only want to rename one of the symbols?
>>108969239take a look at tis. its not really bound to a language anymore, but it is a requirement upon requirement to build anything on that OS. in turn it requires a set of other deps, like .NET framework etc
>>108971388Editors with lsp attached to it can handle that. And if you're not dependent on using lsp and if you're using vim, you could use regex + quickfix to make changes on the matched characters of your files in your current directory
>>108972014My point is that considering language awareness (which is what IDE's exemplify) in an editor as something to avoid is taking minimalism to a stupid degree. LSP's are essentially editor agnostic interface to language awareness.
>>108972095That is to say, I don't understand people who find joy in keeping rules in their head. Let the editor tell how a language works, automate it.
>>108971843rename by file and if you have occurrences of different symbols with the same name in one file, rename them manually. And if you need AI for this job it's fine if it happens once a month and even then you can fees AI the source in the form of tar.gz and ask it to give you a sed cars mmand that only changes the symbols on particular lines of particular files and run that command. You just don't need an agent do it for you. Also, an agent literally does the same fucking thing I just described.
>>108972118> I don't understand people who find joy in keeping rulesconsider this: it's my codebase and I just know the rules, I don't need to actively maintain them in my head, I just look at code and I instantly know if it looks odd. Also, by "keeping rules in my head" I can break them at will where needed. The whole point of rules is to have a sort of framework for what code should look like, but you can break out of it any time you need to. Linters and formatters are tools of opression.
>>108972287I was thinking more of rules of a language than rules you've built using one. The compiler is already a mechanical judge, so why would anyone want to make it clunky or slow to interact with it? The judge knows the rules in order to judge, so have it dictate live as you work, instead of sending letters with it and getting redlined paper back like you're doing a test.Linters and formatters are more like enforcers for rules set by a homeowners association, I can see why they're something one might not like.
>>108971794>Copypastimg is unironically the last frontier that separates complete vibecoder imbeciles from thinking people.Overtone window shifts once again
>>108967297>tests := []structSpecial snowflake syntax like this pisses me off. Just be normal
>>108972428There's nothing snowflake about it, you're just ignorant.>https://people.inf.ethz.ch/wirth/Articles/GoodIdeas.pdf>ctrl+f "Notation and syntax"
>>108972364Are you talking about is LSP / treesitter kind of stuff? tThey're already like little real-time compilers. Of course, they can't be real compilers, because those need context. It's also annoying to constantly ve having opinions about my code being wrong while I'm typing it. No, I think this is very wrong and doesn't help.
>>108972554I don't care. I won't read your troon study either. Make it normal
What do I mean? To my knowledge almost if not every language has a cli compiler and interpreter.
>>108967318>but you will not be able to do anything meaningful without an IDE>javaNot true unless you learned Java with an IDE in such a way that you become helpless without the IDE. That's why I think it's always best to learn a language and its associated frameworks with a text editor and cli compiler. Without any training wheels, you actually learn to program and don't become helpless if the training wheels are taken away.
>>108972700That's a certified /g/ - Technology -tier post if I've ever seen one.
>>108967297Go syntax looks more permissive than Python but it's actually more restricted, if you put the brace in the next line of the function it will not compile.
>>108967318>>108967371>>108968208>>108970275Skill issue.
>>108972554there are 6 symbols in-between 2 words and only a retard can call it normality. i dont know how you managed to create this topic.. pure luck, hehehe
>>108972554btw its not even in that PDF, what PDF advocates is := assignment, which may be used, ye, in algol-like langs to access a higher scope, like in implemented in livescript (which is pretty dead as it doesnt have an independent runtime)but it is worse to save = for checks and do := assignments, because assignment happens more often. and : is a different symbol, having = and == makes ops simpler.
>>108967317>man 2 write
