X11 is dead
>>108984043Good.
>>108984043The default desktop of glorious Debian is GNOME on Wayland. And if you are willing to learn the lore, things have never been better.
>>108984043Then why the fuck red hat employees were bitching so much about someone else forking and maintaining independently a literal dead software?
>>108984043Good fucking riddance.
>>108984043wow no fucking way OP you are not gonna believe it, I found a very similar poll on my computer
>>108984043This reminds me time few years ago when they announced death of Xorg and that Wayland is super popular but then Firefox accidentally published statistics and proved that no one uses Wayland. That's when RH got really desperate and started forcing in on everyone.
>>108984142/thread
x11 + bspwm is all you need unless you're brown
>>108984043can you stop, i see your stupid fucking wayland thread at least a few times a week, i get it you are trying to get people hooked so you can monitize it and turn it into a subscription service but x11 is just better, nobody wants your stupid waylandpicrelated.jpg hope this helps
Why are they trying so hard to kill off X11?>makes Wayland the default>see! X11 is dead and no one wants to use it>uses words like deprecated, legacy or retro to describe X11>puts pop-ups in some environments implying X11 apps are insecure>removes support from toolkits they influence>see! nothing even supports X11 anymore (while denying pull requests to add or preserve X11 support)>implies XLibre is an illegitimate protest fork while butchering what's supposed to be the mainline implementation Like I sort of already know. But they're resorting to actual propaganda tactics.
I'm just gonna keep using x11 hehe
>>108984043>listen, i NEED wobbly windows, rounded corners, transparent terminals, and UI cubes
>>108984234it's the same playbook they used with systemdthey use it because it works
no shit bro everyone just uses the default anyway
>>108984287but why? why wayland over x11?>>108984289that's why the "who cares if it isn't the default, bro? it's still there" argument is so disingenuous
>>108984296>why wayland over x11?bEcAuSe It'S a MoDeRn CoMpOsItInG WiNdOw MaNaGeR
>>108984043Ayo hol up, how are they supposed to know this?Pretty sure I didn't give my consent to any telemetry.
>>108984298it's not a window manager, it's a display server protocola very bad one that doesn't include basic features every display server in the world supports like window positioning
>>108984298You can't blame x11bros for being salty. They are anchored to an increasingly fringe technology, whereas Linux in general is very slowly becoming more mainstream.
>>108984311my bad, brain fart on the nomenclature
>>108984179I'm using wayland. Kubuntu, it was X11, but then they have deleted it and my scripts starting multiple terminals at specific positions on the 2nd monitor don't work anymore.
>>108984043>Plasma
>>108984281>>listen, i NEED wobbly windows, rounded corners, transparent terminals, and UI cubesYou don't even need Wayland for this. Compiz was doing it 15 years ago on X.
>>108984316Nobody is salty. The only people I see having a mental breakdown over x are talentless losers that can't code in any language. BASIC confuses these losers, but here they are on 4chan and twitter with their friends (that all look like child molesters for some reason) trying to start wars about things nobody cares about, because losers that look like child molesters have nothing else better to do that try and farm attention.
>>108984355You'd think they'd at least brand their desktop environments competently if they're going to try to force them on everyone.
>>108984316>whereas Linux in general is very slowly becoming more mainstream.It doesn’t LMAO. On Steam it's not even 4% and big chunk of that are handhelds or whatever.
>>108984381they can't. they are absolutely devoid of any talent when it comes to design and presentation. this has been a consistent theme throughout the DE /windowing world of linux. It attracts the most talentless hacks I have ever fucking seen. And this is the main reason why all the fucking trash GUIs still look like the shit we were using 20+ years ago. fuck me it's embarrassing.
>>108984142kekFuck Red Hat and the retards that run it.
>>108984093>using gnomewould rather use the terminal full time and cut my cock off than install gnome and have epussy's shit code running on my computers. fuck him and gnome.
>>108984391As if most people game
>>108984416systemd I totally understand the rage. but wayland? the only thing that isn't better is less knobs for adjusting pointing devices. literally everything else is better.
>>108984296> but why? why wayland over x11?In order to kill community participation and control the ecosystem.It is dead simple to write window mangers, toolkits or simply clients for X11 because it has a solid basis that takes care of everything.As comparison, on Wayland writing a window manager essentially means writing a full GPU driver + window manager.Even the simplest Wayland client needs thousands of lines of cpapbility check spaghetti boiler plate just to put a bunch pixels on the screen.A relentless churn of new, deprecated, updated "protocols" makes keeping even the simplest app working a full time job.As a result: community exhaustion, only IBM approved software runs on your computer.
>>108984479I have no particular qualm against wayland (or systemd) however i also find retarded to force a one size fit for everything, especially within the context of the linux ecosystem. Multiple solutions existing don't prevent particular projects (eg: gnome and kde) to pick and exclusively support one, although i personally think that's retarded, not for the support as-is but intricately tying your project to another one instead of choosing modularity.
i get lower click to photon latency on wayland, hdr and vrr support, that's all i care about really, everything just works better tm
>>108984391>On Steam it's not even 4%It was over 5% this year. The only reason it's down is the chink net cafe bug. The actual number of people using Linux hasn't dropped.>and big chunk of that are handhelds or whatever.Most handhelds ship with windows, which means people are choosing to install Linux on them if so. Why should that be treated differently to people choosing to install Linux on their PCs?
>>108984670> i get lower click to photon latency on waylandNo you don't. Wayland has consistently worse latency.> hdrOnly works with very few compositors.Works on compositorless X11 too via Vulkan btw.> vrrWorks on X11 since ages.
>>108984479From a developer perspective everything is worse about wayland. You cant make "wayland applications". You can only make kde, gnome, hyprland, wlroots, niri, gamescope, etc applications. In my own application on x11 I need to get the name of the focused window and also cursor position for certain features to work. On x11 I just call one function to do that and it works in every x11 environment. This doesn't work in xwayland so on "wayland" I have multiple different solutions. On kde it bypasses the wayland compositor and looks at linux drm to see where the cursor plane is, if the user has hardware cursor enabled. This doesn't always work nicely with rotation and dpi scaling and doesn't work in all wayland compositors, so on hyprland I use hyprctl, on sway I use sway msg and on niri I use niri msg. To get the active window title on kde I create a javascript application that and use dbus to make kwin load it as a desktop extension and when that extension gets the active window title it uses dbus to send that to my application. On gnome I use a similar solution but add it to a location where it gets loaded as an extension, after you reboot. On hyprland/niri it uses a wlroots specific protocol. Note that none of these wayland solutions work in flatpak so I have a sandbox escape exception in my flatpak and connect to the host wayland and proxy it my application and also spawn commands on the host environment. Wayland is just a huge piece of fucking garbage.
>>108984043>plasma statistics after they made wayland the default and soft-ended support for Xorgkill yourself you utter jeetoid>>108984142>>108984099unlike systemd which is basically a big tech trojan horse, with waypist it's sunk cost fallacy in my opinionthey've spent decades trying and failing to replace Xorg with their own display server and then xlibre comes along and threatens to expose their incompetence even further which amplifies the sperging you see from RH to the point where they've begun doing some really underhanded shit just to push wayland
>>108984684uh huh sure, not running xwayland and using the new low latency layer give even better results than pictured, have you tried not sucking?
>>108984684>Only works with very few compositors.works with embedded gamescope, the only microcompositor you should be using if you care about latency
>>108984684>spikes your frametimenothing personnel kiddo
>sticking to x11 in 2026>or even worse, the chudded out xlibre
>>108984720> graph clearly shows X11 has better latency> graph does not compare the best case for X11 (compares just two kwin implementations)>>108984728GamesCope is the most pointless Wayland compositor ever (pushed by the idiots working for Collabora).It is launched from a X11 session and runs as a X11 client (it requires a bunch of X11 Atoms/properties to work btw.). It then runs Proton/Wine via Xwayland. The final part that is responsible for HDR is simply a Vulkan/DirectX translation layer.You could throw away the Wayland part of GamesCope, use a simple full screen X11 client window and still have the same functionality just with hundreds of thousands of LOC less.>>108984746Learn how to use the Xpresent extension properly.
>>108984770>need to use an extensionsorry anon but people just install kde/gnome and do their computing or play games nowadays, good luck
>>108984770>compares just two kwin implementationsgod forbid people just want to use their computer
Forcing Wayland is a good thing, as it forces them to fix bugs instead of taking the lazy way out of just going back to X11. It's basically dog fooding with very horrible tasting food.
>>108984043can wayland do unattended remote access yet? no? guess it's still hot garbage lacking basic functionality that literally everything else has
>>108984621interesting, but>on Wayland writing a window manager essentially means writing a full GPU driverwhat?>community exhaustionAren't minimal Wayland environments thriving, e.g. swaywm, niri/dms?
>>108984784Xpresent is part of the default X11 distribution since decades. You might as well say "use the X11 protocol".> people just install kde/gnomeNot because they are good but because they killed off the community with tactics described by >>108984234The result: only IBM approved software runs on your computer.>>108984796Again another pointless comparision of a specific Xcompmgr implementation by KDE which technically has nothing to do with X11 or what X11 is capable of.
>>108984815no one is targeting your protocol anon, it just sucks, that's it, it's an outdated security liability kept alive in a fork by schizophrenic neo-nazis>Not because they are goodthe end user linux experience is the best it's ever been right now, i wonder why>Xpresent is part of the default X11 distribution since decadesthen why do people have to "learn to use it"? again anon, people just want to do computing and play games
>>108984823> no one is targeting your protocol anonIt is clearly targeted.> it's an outdated security liability kept alive in a fork by schizophrenic neo-nazisRepeating the lies don't make them true. But communists like you have to do it because they can't win the argument.> the end user linux experience is the best it's ever been right nowClearly not. Wayland means more fragmentation, more bugs, less functionality and worse performance.> then why do people have to "learn to use it"?If you use wrappers like SDL/GLFW you already use it.Besides, if your app has bad frame pacing it's the problem of the app and not X11 because unlike Wayland X11 lets you do what you want.
>>108984043Gayland was pushed by corpos, just like systemd, what did you expect?Corpos pay for Linux maintenance, they decide what goes under the hood if that's important to them.With x11 it's a good thing. X11 is a solid framework for creating thin clients and taking compute away from the general public.The further corpos drift from x11-like stuff, the better.
>>108984043what's the point of this shitty thread? this is like saying 100% of xfce desktops use X11>>108984155based knower bspwm user
>>108984857>muh communityhere's your community anon, good luck and have fun
>>108984687>To get the active window title on kde I create a javascript application that and use dbus to make kwin load it as a desktop extension and when that extension gets the active window title it uses dbus to send that to my applicationwhat the fuck
>>108984892I'll take this over corporate paid communists.
>>108984892>>108984900endless bickering over the README markdown file, this sure is driving progress and adoption of FOSS, unlike plasma and wayland! this is surely not a developmental dead end! show them commies!
>>108984900>xlibre dev called out for being a weirdo instantly gets anon ranting about communists on FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE of all thingsYOU are political if you think i was political ...
>>108984911I don't know what xgui4 is or does.Communism is not a metric.
>>108984920a typical member of the community you so desperately crave over modern software standards
>>108984925This discussion is getting a little heated, locking this thread.
Works on my machine
>>108984892oh god, I might have to uninstall it.
>>108984043I will use windows if I’m ever forced onto gayland
>muh sense of community>community decides to collectively abandon the outdated protocol that's basically a security liability>they're killing muh community!!!, must be uhhhh>checks list>woke corporate paid communists
>>108984892bluesky using faghat employee detected
>>108984959
>>108984982the x11 future you were promised anon
>>108984814> Aren't minimal Wayland environments thriving, e.g. swaywm, niri/dms?If by thriving you mean pointless fragmentation, yes.It literally took decades to create wrapper libraries to make creating window mangers for Wayland somewhat simpler. It is still orders of magnitudes more complicated than writing a WM on X11 (which will take you a long weekend if you are bad at C).However there is still no "thriving" Wayland client community which would be much more important.Ironically (or intentionally) it is even more complicated to write clients for Wayland than to write window managers.
>>108985037actually good software is generally harder to write? who would've guessed
>>108984988does your mind operate in anything other than extremes? maybe you lack the internal monologue to reflect on situations like this on a bigger scale?
>>108985050why are you so angry over a picture and a mindless quip on an anonymous chinese basket weaving forum? not even enrico himself was this pressed
>>108984900>>108984857did you move away from the communistic linux kernel too you little schizo?
>>108984155fvwm ONLY
>>108984621>In order to kill community participationCommunity participation is being choked by this retarded implicit demand that Linux is actually Linux/X11 (or Linux+x11 as I like to call it) and everyone making software for Linux has to maintain a ton of additional x11 code forever or they're the devil. It may as well be its own ideological social contract at this point, that Linux is more than a kernel it's 100 sacrosanct things on top of it. People just want to make shit and targeting a specific chunk of the ecosystem instead of accounting for everyone and targeting wayland/systemd is the sane choice at this point. There is no implicit social contract that when you sign up to contribute to a modern desktop on Linux you are also signing up to maintain x11 code until the day you die, no matter how hard you try to imply this exists it doesn't. Nobody betrayed anything they never agreed with your insane interpretation of the ecosystem.
>>108984043Works on my machine
>>108984133
>>108984043LONG LIVE XLIBRE!seriously though, I just switched back to GNOME and it's better performing than XFCE with XLibre. these DEs that are lagging behind with Wayland compositors get a nice boost from XLibre updates, but eventually they are going to keep getting massively outclassed in performance by the more modern pipeline.
>>108984155I have the exact same combo. It's great. For best control you would need to create external rules script. Documentation doesn't tell you that you can't use wildcards in default bspwmrc if you want to automatically manage windows. External rules allow this.
>>108984043Computing as a whole is dead.
>>108985755How? Wayland cant run without compositor it will always be worse no matter what they will do, the issue with the cursor is great example. The foundation is completely broken.
>>108985867Nta but this thread has just been blatant trolling from the get go, aside boredom and compulsive replying i don't see how anyone can take anything obviously so purposely contrarian in nature at face value.
>x11 good>systemd badWhy are these often the same people? X11 is more bloated than SystemD.
>>108984893Thats just the beginning of hacks needed to make shit work on wayland. For example global hotkeys. The global shortcut desktop portal is simply broken, it only works somewhat ok on kde plasma, nothing else (it even crashes the gnome desktop portal when you use it and used to do the same thing on hyprland). In my application I have to do it with root access and bypass wayland completely, create a virtual keyboard, grab all other keyboards (despite there not being a proper way to detect if something is a keyboard, it just has to guess). Grabbing the device means that the input from that device wont be received by other applications (including the wayland compositor). It then checks if the keyboard key is a hotkey, and in that case it triggers the hotkey; otherwise it forwards the key input to the virtual device. If the user runs other applications that also create a virtual device (such as wayland keyboard remapping software) then it will lead to a deadlock, where both applications try to grab each others devices so you cant use your keyboard. This also doesn't work with other keyboard layouts, so in my application I use x11 keyboard mapping information to map from an x11 key to the linux keycode.There are a billion hacks needed to make shit work on wayland.
>>108985908they're microslop shills trying to derail linux modernisation
>>108985969The creator of systemd literally works for microsoft right now. What are you talking about?
>>108984043what happened to xlibre?
>>108985979wrong
>>108986057Ok correction: he worked at microsoft until a few months ago
>>108986063imagine being so shit that even microslop cans you
>>108984289>no shit bro everyone just uses the default anywayIf you understand your statement carefully, you will understand the world.
>>108985867>it will always be worsecan't be any worse than me needing Picom on top of any X WM to keep screen tearing under control
>>108984988Looks based.Installing X11 right now.
>>108984687It cannot be that bad, right? What are they pushing this shit? Are they trying to kill desktop linux?
>>108986107>muh anecdoteJust as valid as my friend calling me because his ubuntu installation (so gnome wayland) had flickering ui and crackling audio. Installing xfce4 and logging in the x11 session instantly fixed these issues. Now he moved for good to linux mint cinnamon (so x11) and he's fucking happy, unbothered by retarded, forced in his throat, protocols.
>>108984043Can Wayland do the same thing as my .XCompose file:<Multi_key> <t> <f> : "(ಠ益ಠ)︵ ━"?
<Multi_key> <t> <f> : "(ಠ益ಠ)︵ ━"
>>108984043Wayland eats battery life. I mean I use it with KDE but the power consumption sucks compared to X11.
>>108985867>the issue with the cursorweird how I have no such issue
fucking come and take it
>>108984234the securitard agenda, it happens over all tech not only troonix
>>108986684You could use Fcitx5's (an IME) Quick Phrase feature, which as an added bonus also works on X11.
If have two different monitors with different refresh ratesI use WaylandShrimple as
>>108984043>Source: the hole through which fecal matter vacates my posterior.
>>108984301You didn't but many others did.
>>108984234>Why are they trying so hard to kill off X11?Because maintaining two codepaths is annoying. You're welcome to contribute to the fork of Plasma that aims to support x11
>>108984093Debian is outdated jeetware
>>108984043Never tried wayland, X11 works well enough
>>108986684xkb is not restricted to x11
wayland drove me back to windows
>>108984376>15 years agooh sweet summer childhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F6zjuO4NkQhttps://desk3d.sourceforge.net/
>>108984971lying scum such as this ought to have its head cratered.
>>108985125This and only this.And WindowMaker.
>>108985718>>108984947
>>108985908>>108985969
>>108988907And his boyfriend's cock enters.
>>108990036It's not about whether it works or not, it's about supporting things that rely on it, like a software development shop that uses x11vnc and multiseating extensively, develops and embedded system that is all about x11, etc.These petulant children and corporate shills kvetching about this-or-that on one hand have zero concept of how tech works and on the other are simply trying to destroy something so they can replace it with their own slop to make more money.All this "bickering" isn't organic, it's by shills and useful idiots, of whom most are troons aka chomos.
>>108990839inb4 schizo this and boomer that or whatever overused cliche. you shitheads are too transparent and predictable af
>>108984043i turned on telemetry for this
i tried swapping to wayland recently: i'm using a basic xfce with the window manager swapped out for mostly-stock i3.it didn't work. the nearest substitute to xfce for the purposes i care about (things like appearance and display options on a GUI) required me to separately build like 5 different things, and they had prerequisites that weren't in the mint repos. fuck that shiti'm sure eventually someone will make something suitable but until then i'm sticking with X
i'd rather die than use compositing
>>108990902That's on XFCE, it moves extremely slow and at this point nobody knows when they will have a usable Wayland version. It'll get there eventually, I believe they're just kind of understaffed.
>>108984142Reminds me when feetfags realized that nobody used their shitty app store and everyone uninstalled it, so they made it impossible to uninstall on GNOME
>>108984621>In order to kill community participation and control the ecosystem.>It is dead simple to write window mangers, toolkits or simply clients for X11 because it has a solid basis that takes care of everything.>As comparison, on Wayland writing a window manager essentially means writing a full GPU driver + window manager.Isn't there River which tries to remedy this?
>>108986590Its being pushed by troons, people that literally can't cope that they exist as they do.
I'm writing a new X11 window manager in 2026 and nobody can stop me
I contemplated moving to Wayland/Sway from my i3 setup because it seemed nicer with all those animations, but discovered yesterday that picom mow actually has very nice animations too. Fuck this, I'm never leaving, it just werks and I have a ton of scripts and wiring for my X11 environment, give me one (funf) reason to move to Wayland?
>>108984043X11 is disabled by default with plasma 6.6 and it is a pain in the ass to enable so most people do not bother. I did, however.
>>108984099What the fuck are you talking about? No one gives a shit about your tranny fork where the dev thought bit xor was exponentiation. Fuck off.
>>108994555> animationsanimations are at their core a form of lag. Imagine willfully choosing to add lag to your computer.
>>108994629No, sensible animations do help you orient yourself, that has value. You obviously don't want to overdo it, but with a tiling window manager especially they're useful.
>>108994849If your computer takes more than 50ms to finish responding to an input then that is lag. Animations take significantly longer than 50 ms. Stepping into the region of severe lag. Even 50ms is pretty bad. Ideally a computer should be operating down at around 20ms or less.
i dont even know which one i'm using. I'm on GNOME so I assume Wayland
Wayland still breaks on KDE for me so I'm just going to keep using X11.
>>108994627Nice try but you can't memory hole shit nigger.
>>108993050Based
