>wl_shellwas supposed to implement windowsended up being deprecated basically immediately and replaced with:>xdg_shell>the "X" in XDG stands for X11poetry
>>108992438>the "X" in XDG stands for X11akshually it stands for X, not X11
>>108992438KDE and Valve are now fixing it
>>108993197
>>108993197Tear everything away from Ebussi and GNOME. I don't even think the Foundation should be burned down and the land salted, I just want them not to steer Wayland development.
>>108993186'XDG' is 'X Desktop Group' where 'X' refers to 'X11'
>>108992438This.All my reasons why i liked to use Linux are disappearing. Kernel used to be C and Assembly. Now it's Troonish rust.Troons couldn't leave X11 which was fine for development so they pushed wayland.Pushing troon packages into repos like that troonish version of neofetch. Ahhhh... Linux is going to die. Sadly... troons will kill it.
>>108992438The linux desktop is unstable just like troons>X11 is finally stable with proper hardware acceleration>Xlib is set in stone. You can run a game compiled 20 years ago on modern linux because xlib abi hasn't ever changed>Lets fuck that up by having multiple different wayland compositors that all implement the same shit, except for a few important features which all either implement differently or dont implement at all (gaynome)>Require overcomplicated solution both from the server side and client side (desktop portal with pipewire for screen capture)>Implement a wayland native protocol to do screen capture without pipewire>Nobody implements it except cosmic and sway>You can no longer have simple window managers. If you want to create a window manager you now also have to implement a whole display server implementation, compositor and desktop portal implementation
>>108993205TOLD
>>108994997What are you switching to?
>>108995064troons will kill linux... faster then microdick or nJudea could even think of.
>>108992438GNOME refuses to implement a popular wlroots Wayland extension, not an official Wayland standard.
>>108995099GNOME even refuses to implement server-side decorations despite that being a standard wayland protocol and GNOME already supporting server-side decorations for xwayland applications.
>>108995095Im still thinking about it.Windows there is only option to use LTSC but configuring all the shit and banning all the Microsoft IP's is just shit ton of work. then there is BSD but im afraid it will end up just same... im kind of thinking that there is not really any altenrative.Windows will die by jeets.Linux and BSD will die by troons.MacOS we will see i truly don't want to touch that shit but if it will be the only one thing left maybe i will even if i will have to live with my self.
>>108992438wl_shell was Wayland’s first protocol for normal desktop windows, but it was quickly deprecated and replaced by xdg_shell. The joke is that Wayland replaced X11, yet its main window-management protocol uses the name “XDG”, historically tied to the X Desktop Group/freedesktop.org.
>>108995109Ok. GNOME already knows how to draw window borders, but refuses to do it for native Wayland apps.
>>108995095>>108995111I'm much more optimistic about BSD.>BSD systems are developed much more independently of each other so even if one gets enshittified the rest will likely be fine.>BSD systems tend to be backed by companies that need a solid, minimal foundation so they're unlikely to do anything drastic.>BSD will vanguard X11 because Wayland relies on Linux exclusive kernel features.>FreeBSD has native translation layers for WINE and a Linux subsystem so theoretically you don't need to compromise anything.>An argument can be made that permissive licenses actually discourage corporate takeovers, because why would they need to go through that when they can just take the code?For these reasons I'm looking into FreeBSD+Xlibre+Trinity and the only reason I'm not running it right now is because they don't have drivers for the Wifi chip on my PC.Otherwise I also wouldn't mind MacOS desu. All things considered it's a solid operating system, it's just too locked down.
>>108995287We will see about that i hope honestly that you are right in this but when Linux will eventually start dying troons will try to invade BSD immediately if they aren't doing it already...
>>108993877it's funny because even GNOME at times implemented wayland out of spec
>>108995064>>108995096phoenix might save it
>>108995287>it's just too locked down.have you ever actually used it? I have a fully riced tiling window manager with custom bar and everything on mine, configured with nix-darwin
>>108995293Linux and Windows are already dying bro. Windows is bleeding from how bad 11 is and Linux is holding on by the sheer autism of nerds willing to hack it into submission.The good news is BSD gets to reap the benefits of actual Linux advancements like Xlibre without being influenced by the ecosystem.I'll be honest, there are some trannies infesting the community. But they only really start to be a problem when they're accepted into the leadership. For now it's latent.>>108995368No but I do know one of the first things I'd want to do is change the UI theme to be like Snow Leopard. And that's impossible without overriding some system files that get replaced with each update. And the files to override it with probably don't even exist.
>>108995488I still can't understand why they are letting this retards in. I mean look at gnome and the whole gnome shaman or the redhat it's just a fucking joke. Imagine working there the smell the fucking retardation of unability to do your actual job because troons want to discuss genders instead of OS.
>>108995500Why don't you show them how it's done then, or are you more retarded than GNOME? You retards don't do shit and won't do shit. Know your place.
>>108994997>KernelAre you a kernel developer? Otherwise I don't see how it matters to (You). I don't care as long as it works.>X11 which was fineX.org sucked dick, was hell to maintain and a new centralized implementation wouldn't be able to satisfy what all DEs and WMs wanted.>troon packagesAs long as I don't need to do some bullshit to run them like some GUI Python apps seem to require, I don't care tbqh>Linux is going to dieLooks fine to me.
>>108995548Jesus troon calm down go take your meds, your are 58th gender you gonna be fine... everything is fine. You are they/them... breath nigga breath.
>>108995555Stop projecting, anon.
>>108995566NUMBERS ARE ON MY SIDE FAGGOT.
>>108995569Digits can fail sometimes...
>>108995574They never lie. Randomness is a essence of God.
>>108995575kek is tricking you for fun, anon. Surprise him by not falling for it!
>>108995500Yeah there are many different angles to it. It's a whole mess.>Antifa has networks on Mastodon to coordinate job entry >Much of the old guard in FOSS are gen X hippies that honestly believe MSM>Western companies use identity politics to distract from their exploitation and capture a larger audience>Lunduke and his followers provoke a reaction from their networks>Trannies are terminally online and cling to their position in FOSS groups as a form of surrogate powerThe system works out for all parties involved since raw programming ability hasn't really been something special for years desu.Lay off the Lunduke btw he's a kike that profits off this kind of drama.
>>108995111>but configuring all the shit and banning all the Microsoft IP's is just shit ton of workthere are already debloating utilities doing that, expanding it to a "de-microsofted windows" setup isn't that big of a stretch
>>108995287>BSD systems are developed much more independently of each other so even if one gets enshittified the rest will likely be fine>and the only reason I'm not running it right now is because they don't have drivers for the Wifi chip on my PCone causes the other. also cuck licenses on most of them does NOT help your case.>>108995064you know xorg is a big ass spaghetti that only a few select old guard autists could manage right? xwayland exists to run those xlib games on a modern wayland session which runs faster and leaner because it was made with modern drm/kms graphics stacks in mind. for window managers you can always use a library like wlroots or smithay
>>108996490>one causes the other.I never blamed Linux for not having perfect Nvidia support. It should be basic tech literacy that you make sure the hardware supports your software. I will try FreeBSD again when I buy a PC that has support.>also cuck licenses on most of them does NOT help your case.I think it does because honestly GNU is starting to feel more cucked with all the hostile takeovers and manipulation. The only exception is a sign off policy with a benevolent dictator that seems to deter this behavior.What happens in BSD? There's no liability to sharing or copying code from other BSD projects whatsoever. Companies that want it as a base for their system can use the code without exerting influence over the foundation to have their way.And since those companies focus on embedded systems they're no threat to desktop users.
>>108994997Your language will be safe
the new thing to hate is AI, nobody gives a shit about wayland anymore. whether it's to hate it or not
>>108995339phoenix is literally dead
>>108996605>I never blamed Linux for not having perfect Nvidia support. It should be basic tech literacy that you make sure the hardware supports your softwarethis was caused not by linux, but by nvidia artificially locking up reclocking on several families of gpus behind a signed firmware blob that they also decided not to let us use or share. nvidia deliberately stifled linux from working optimally on their gpus and they didn't change course until after pascal, and that's only for the new ones. maxwell 2 and pascal are still shit out of luck but it's not because of linux>There's no liability to sharing or copying code from other BSD projects whatsoeverCompanies that want it as a base for their system can use the code without exerting influence over the foundation to have their way.having influence is a trade off for having decent device drivers written and maintained up to standard, and it has been mostly beneficial for the desktop linux ecosystem as a whole even if we have bad actors (usually backed by red hat). this is why we enjoy 802.11ax wifi on linux while most of the BSDs are stuck on 802.11n
How is Xlibre? I've had it installed for a while and it seems to work pretty well but I haven't been following the development side of it.
>>109001563i think it has better defaults than xorg like tearfree enabled by default
>>108999484fugg, year of the linux desktop never ever
>>108992438>Start upgrading workstations to Ubuntu 26.04 LTS>With gayland USB barcode readers don't work anymore>Can't switch to X11 because GNOME stopped support for it>Install Kubuntu 26.04 on everything and force it to use X11Gayland is such a frustrating project when it's forced like this even though it's not ready. Veyon and Anydesk don't work and there are no workarounds other than some stupid hacks which I'm not going to deploy on hundreds of machines.
>>109001914> it's not readyIts working exactly as designed, they will never support your obscure use cases.
>>108993205>colorspace management still brokenlmao
>>109002643wrong
>>109002651last time i checked software-side support is almost always broken for whatever reason
>>108994620no it's refer to X which started as a fork of W (x being the next letter)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System#Origin_and_early_development
>>109003695>>108994620https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_Window_System
You're all such contrarians it's insane.>Linux starts to get good>/g/ notices>Lists made up reasons why it's not actually good and is actually bad>Lists every shitty "alternative" including going back to WindowsYou guys should take a look at yourselves...
>>109004457Almost all the bugs I see normies complain about in Linux desktop environments are Wayland specific though. Then it's like hitting my head against the wall explaining to them how X isn't some old legacy software and Wayland is still experimental if not a total non-solution.
>>109004457by good you mean infested by normalfaggots, right?i mean you use contrarian as an insult by default because thats part of your programming but i just dont see that.
>>108992438Old fuck scared of the Wayland world like it's the fucking Script of Scientology. Future is now old man.
Wayland had a fucked up conception, it was made by retards who basically created solely to get rid of tearing. They didn't even think about having good throughput. Not only that, but they didn't have decent foresight so it didn't have HDR either. Being able to disable tearing and HDR didn't get included until very recently, when Wayland was over a decade old. And both options still have issues. Moronic DE's are trying to force people on to Wayland so they have more testers for this trash. Oh and the maintainers are huge cunts about any changes. Any change you submit will take at least five years before upstreamed and that's if it gets accepted at all.
>>109005137X has a brutally fucked up idea of how a DE let alone a WM should work in the first place.
>>109001922Like a USB barcode reader?
>>109007199Anything not used by the Wayland devs is an obscure use case.
>>109005137> fucked up conceptionYou’re sugar coating it and sound like a hyper-religious wayland zealot.We have the first wayland check-in, and it wasn’t even about tearing. I remember they added “sprites” to it at some point. It’s just an aimless mess of nonsense.Read this and let the first check-in (a for loop and not much else) sink the fuck in.Wayland is just trying to be “nothing” but it hasn’t achieved that—it’s put us behind by years.
>>109007550Well they don't seem to use anything but the desktop based on that.>>109007691That happened only on Intel iGPUs and you have to enable TearFree. Crazy how when that was still an issue you had no GUI option to toggle it.
>>109008281>That happened only on Intel iGPUs and you have to enable TearFree. Crazy how when that was still an issue you had no GUI option to toggle it.The sad thing is that they enabled TearFree option by default in the modesetting driver like 4-5 years ago, but they never put that in a release so no distro used it
>>109008276What's wrong with that loop? spoonfeed me
>>109007199how would wayland at all prevent you from using your USB barcode reader? user error?
>>108993205>xml docsvalve is such a fucking laughable operation. basically mini-microsoft.
>>109009664are you retarded or have you never developed for wayland?
>>108992438What is the state of XLibre rn? I don't see anyone ever talking about it
>>109009632probably a missing driver that he wanted to blame Wayland for some reason
>>109007691This hasn't been a problem since 2010, retard
>>108992438>>>the "X" in XDG stands for X11It stands for "Cross", yes, that's not an X, I know, but a cross is also a kind of 'X' so it works.>It's the Cross-Desktop-Group (Because they make standards that work across multiple desktops)
>>109011584>>108992438https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/
I am never using Wayland.Xorg just works and I really hate learning anything new. That's why I still haven't converted my iptables rules or stopped writing init scripts or stopped partitioning my disks with MBR or bought any SSDs.
>>109011735What's next? You're still wearing crocs because you never learned to tie your shoe laces and really hate learning anything new?
>>109003699>W_W
>>109008276AI slop.
>>109012128i'm pretty sure shoe laces were invented before crocs so the analogy kinda sucks anon, sorry
>>108994997Come on man, Rust is really better than C, otherwise agreed
>>108994997You seem to have strong opinions about things you don't seem to know much about.Perhaps instead of crying about how people are using Wayland and Rust you should read up on why the industry went that way instead of remaining where you are.
>>109009883Business as usual. A lot of the excitement has dispersed into aligned projects such as the Devuan community's attempt to revive GTK 2.
>>109011596They changed the definition. It used to mean "X desktop group".
>>108994997I think the ai written kernel will, just look at windows, lol
>>109009632Do this:1. Install Ubuntu 26.06 or Kubuntu 26.04 2. Finish install and test that everything works normally3. Plug in Datalogic QM2131 wireless barcode reader (one of the most common models in the world)4. Scan something, the OS detects the read but it can't pass it on because of gayland5. If on Kubuntu, install the X11 packages and start X11 session6. Scan with barcode reader, it works flawlesslySo you tell me if I have repeated this with numeous machines with a fresh install and it immediately works when using X11 session, how is it not a gayland issue?
>>109014524GTK 2 lmao
>>109015606I mean GTK 2 was peak. It was simple and had better theming and platform target support.
>>109009877are you telling me there's yet another reason to laugh at wayland?
>>109015793Wayland defines the protocol in xml files and application use a program called wayland-scanner to generate the protocol C code for that. x11 client-side application also do the same, with xcb.
