Thanks greentards this shit is so much better for the environment than a bit of harmless nuclear waste.
>>109001254This image cannot be real because nobody would greenlight such placement of solar panels.
>>109001282China does,>>109001254Yeah, we're collectively doing the wrong thing because of the people that lead us. I am not saying the government, the true rulers above governments.If you keep thinking that they want what's sensible and good for us, you're wrong. You will keep being wrong.
>>109001254If every state in the US had at lease 6-12 nuclear reactors and the higher population states had 15-30 nuclear by 1995 then we could’ve have the electric utopia the greens are dreaming about. Picrel is the interior of the GM EV-1 in 1997.All the tech GM developed was owned by a GM subsidiary named Magnequench and was sold to a Chinese electric motor company
>>109001493That's sexy af
>>109001254>t.Thiel bot... goes in all fields.
>>109001533Yep peak late 90s GM AC Delco futuristic. No touchscreens but plenty of. Anyone who’s ever owned a late 90s-early mid-2000’s GM can instantly recognize it is GM. Everyone who spent time with it, praised it.Here’s motorweek https://youtu.be/KTryhfFWnC8
>>109001456This. Oil families and their banking cousins push every alternative energy solution that won't work while publishing 'just two more weeks' in mainstream news to keep ecotards strung along.>>10900154070 years and you retards still can't see it.
>>109001554> No touchscreens but plenty of TECHForgot a word
>>109001254literally destroying the environment
>>109001254>>109001577solar panels (+ batteries) literally give you independence and freedom to control YOUR OWN ENERGYand you are talking about muh oil muh nuclearBRAINDEAD SHILL>>109001586ever heard of agrivoltaics? solar panels actually help the environment.
>>109001254SOLAR PANELS OWNED BY INDIVIDUALS AND COMMUNITIES BADCENTRALIZED, BIG CORP-OWNED ENERGY PRODUCTION GOODThis board is so retarded kek
>>109001254But then there wouldn't be any wars in the Middle East - Israel would never allow it.
>>109001493Americans voted for all of this
>>109001282China builds solar farms for two reasons. First their economic policies prioritizes spending money in infrastructure development to stop the economy from slowing down, in the west they lower the interest rate and sometimes gives money to banks and other institutions so the money velocity can increase.Secondly they want to keep their solar cell production high so the west can buy as much as they want, I assume this is because they think that if the west heavily invests in solar that will weaken their grids. China keep solar as a relatively low part of their grid and they can install even more and still keep production quite low by installing it in ways such as pictures in the OP. Their installed capacity, which is what they market, will still look impressive and put the fear into western leaders so they invest into even more solar.
>>109001493>If every state in the US had at lease 6-12 nuclear reactors and the higher population states had 15-30 nuclear by 1995 then we could’ve have the electric utopia the greens are dreaming about.Great idea! Think of all of the spent fuel rods those would produce!
wow some glass and aluminium on a hilltopso much worse than toxic radioactive waste that could raise cancer rates of an entire surrounding population if it leaks into their ground water
>>109001627Imported from China too, right?
>>109001599>solar panels actually help the environment.Sure, brother. The leeched cadmium adds a sweet aftertaste to the lamb meat.
>>109001627I'm sure the animals love it
>>109001627Aluminium ions are highly neurotoxic.If you only cook your food in aluminium cookware you will reduce your life expectancy by several years and vastly increased your risk of alzheimers.
>>109001609solar panels are insecure luddite, update to the ai managed power grid now, luddite
>>109001609Solar panels grant limited independence to high net worth individuals on a 10 year time frame while ensuring population centers stay shackled to the national grid. Small nuclear reactors make population centers independent on a hundred year time frame.
>>109001627And cobalt and cadmium. Every broken solar panel poisons the land and takes far more energy than it will ever make to clean up.
>>109001254environmentalism is dead now anon.Now that we have infinity nonwhites moving to the first world we don't need to pretend anymore.
>>109001618Spent fuel rods are just unrefined fuel.
>>109001686brutal trvke
>>109001682did some pajeet on twitter tell you that?
>>109001709The Florida government told me that. We have some experience with solar farms.
>>109001618Dang, 15-30 shipping containers of spent fuel rods a year that could be safely stored in salt mines. Shit, lets just burn coal or produce millions of tons of expensive unrecyclable solar panels.
>>109001640>>109001682>OMG 1 per billion parts of cadmium will leech to the soil (that already cointains it naturally) in the landfill!>unlike all those radiactive leaks that happen all the time and go directly to drinking water sources!https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1723/ML17236A511.pdf
>>109001282that land is unproductive like you cant grow food on it trees wont grow its just useless
>>109001716>I saw some pajeet quote some government document out of context on twitterOh, I apologize. That's legit then.
>>109001721NTA but the background radiation you get is a million trillion times more than anyone gets off any leaks. All radiation being harmful is a retarded myth from the last century I thought we all understood already. We evolved under a ton of radiation and our cell machinery is incredibly robust against it.
>>109001727humans don't have a good track record on deeming what's "worthless"
>>109001769Radioactive material leaking into the ground water and getting ingested and potentially getting collected inside your body long-term is a completely different beast than being exposed to outside radiation, retard.
>>109001618According to Sonnet
>>109001790If such dangerous hot particles actually were in anyones drinking water we'd all know about it.
>>109001804this is something that literally happened in a German disposal site and increased leukemia rates were found in the surrounding population
You would have to cover the entire surface of every square meter of Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona to produce the same amount of energy as a single GE light water reactor.Solar simply can’t compete with nuclear.
>>109001822>source: some jeet on twitter
>>109001790The vast majority of radioactive particles are released from burning coal and oil, which solar will never, ever replace because energy storage remains an unsolved problem.
>>109001781If you don't like it then conquer China and stop it.
>>109001743Nah I've known people who went through the soil remediation process, and it's a pain in the balls. You have to have it tested and treated iteratively until it's fixed. It's expensive and it ties up the land for a long time. You're never going to see honest studies about this.
>>109001908>more bullshit without sourcesI don't care
>>109001999>i won't believe anything that isn't published in finance approved sources>>109001577JUST FIFTY MORE YEARS
>>109001254It’s over OP.You have been destroyed repeatedly in this thread. You have lost. Move on.
>>109002016>no you have to believe a random anonymous post about what his uncle working at Cadmiumtendo told himthe fuck is wrong youwhy do you waste everyone's time with this nonsense
>>109001618"Oh no what will we do with all this depleted uranium" said the military industrial complex
>>109001627>so much worse than toxic radioactive waste that could raise cancer rates of an entire surrounding population if it leaks into their ground wateryou mean the particles from burning coal rightbecause that is one of the biggest sources of cancer in energy productionnuclear is not it
>>109002154I don't see many solar advocates pushing coalBut I do see a lot of the same people pushing nuclear also pushing coal, like the current administration.
>>109002177>le orange hitler gambit
>>109002177>But I do see a lot of the same people pushing nuclear also pushing coalthis is virtue signallingthey say they like nuclear but then actively oppose it and dig their heels in when push comes to shove
>>109001716ah, the Conservative parasite race in the real estate scam statethat's Israeli bullshit to preserve petrofascism
>>109002077I'm just asking you to read between the lines, but apparently the brainwashing runs too deep. Maybe one day you'll grow up and have the misfortune to invest in what the finance press tells you to, and you'll learn the hard way what news is actually for.
>>109002191Sorry for triggering you by mentioning the current government but again where are the solar advocates also advocating for more coal?
>>109002214How is solar going to replace oil when it doesn't make power at night and people will never be able to buy enough batteries?
>>109002218In the Chinese Communist Party. Not a political inference, just what they do.
>>109001254This but unironically.
>>109002224decent energy grid storage would literally be cheaper and faster than building enough nuclear power plants everywhere
>>109002224wind hydro nuclear and maybe natural gascoal is dead
>>109002232The Chinese invested immensely in not just renewables but also nuclear to lessen their dependence on coal.They have to import this shit, they're highly motivated in getting out of coal.
Nuclear is objectively the best solution for energy generation. It's plentiful, it has no emissions, it's responsible for less radioactive contaminants than coal is since coal often contains radioactive isotopes of carbon and is less regulated. I don't give a shit about your strawmen or personal politics. Nuclear is the best. The problem is it requires a lot more upfront infrastructure and investment than slapping some solar panels on a bunch of hills in addition to more active upkeep, but the benefits greatly outweigh the costs
>>109002239>source jeets from tesla
>>109001254you’re the ones using energy. just stop using energy and the rich will be hung by the lamppost
>>109002288Tesla knows a thing about batteries
>>109002242>winddoesn't work; ask germoney>hydrofinite supply; already tappedWhy are the most impractical means of energy generation always first in the ecoshitter's mind? Who could've programmed this?
>>109002301less about profits and opportunity cost
>>109002304>doesn't work; ask germoney??are you trying to twist germany retardedly decommissioning their nuclear plants into wind somehow being bad?
>>109002304says the guy spouting the same shit boomers said since the 50s even though nuclear power never managed to make much of a profit
>>109002326They have just not in America. Stalinist energy always includes the Western regulatory cost of nuclear in their price analysis while lying about the impact of meme energy.
>>109001617Interesting, thank you for your input.
>>109001554excellent safety too, if you got in an accident and ended up trapped in the vehicle all the acid from the tonne of lead-acid batteries in it would melt an escape route for you
>>109001254That can't possibly generate even 70% of what they claim
>>109001618Literally just use it again and then put it up for auction or bury it
>>109002646yeah things have really improved since then
>>109001790>Radioactive>long-termamerican education
>>109002224>How is solar going to replace oil when it doesn't make power at night>>109002779>>>109001790>>Radioactive>>long-termthis is the level of discussion you can find in this board. just incredibly retarded arguments from complete ignorance, and that's assuming good faith, and not an actual shilling campaign.
>>109001791Roughly one acre of area stacked about ten stories high. To power the entire country. For three decades. Of course the big problem is getting it all to the designated storage facility safely. Pic related is how we do it today.
>>109001692Except to refine normal fuel you can do it with minimal safety measures because it's barely radioactive. You could have it on your room unshielded for years and it probably would only slightly raise your chances of getting cancer unless you inhale it in dust form.Spent fuel is screamingly radioactive and requires massive amounts of shielding and robotics to do anything with it because any human that gets exposed to it will receive a fatal dose in minutes.
>>109003007>Roughly one acre of area stacked about ten stories high.Cool. So we can put that all in your neighborhood?
>>109001618>>109001692>>109001718With our technology today, we know that 20% of the fuel will decay by itself in a short time frame. Ca. 30% can be recycled. The remaining fuel, packaged with our current technology, takes up minimal space.With all above combined, all the fuel rods of humanity ever decommissioned, would fit on less space than a football field.
>>109003055If only there were huge uninhabited parts of the Earth which are tectonically stable.
>>109002824>it doesn't make power at nightGrid scale storage is still a pipedream. 150 years in and the most energy efficient solution we have is pumping water uphill.>long term radioactiveBe afraid of things which are radioactive for days less so centuries. Bananas are hot enough to trigger a Geiger counter but nobody cares.
>>109001254Why not build some nuclear plants, put some solar panels, and leave some land for wilderness? Also those solar panels aren't stopping plants growing around them, and plants that want shade growing underneath.Nuclear is wonderful in terms of pollution, but it isn't a true sustainable power source since there's a limited amount of usable uranium. There's enough for a LOT of power generation, but it'll last even longer if we're also using some of the much more plentiful sunlight as well. Solar panels are mostly made of plentiful elements, and newer ones recycle.
>>109003055Bad faith argument.
>>109003780>150 years in and the most energy efficient solution we have is pumping water uphill.Whats so bad about pumping water uphill? It's cheap and efficient. It sounds primitive, but nuclear plants do too when you realize we're just using it to boil water and then force the steam through turbines.
>>109003055>So we can put that all in your neighborhood?Sure. Modern nuclear is safe. It's hard to get freight train tracks through a suburb though, property values are higher here, and transmission loss on high voltage power lines isn't too bad, so it probably makes more practical sense to build it a bit further out.
>>109003712>If only there were huge uninhabited parts of the Earth which are tectonically stableCool. So we can put that all in your country?
my chrome book runs at 5 watts but a tahoe gas chamber runs at 244,000 watts!Those 124 thousand watt hour electric tesla gas chambers would be cool if they had publicly accessible out lets on them.
>>109004446>the gas chamber schizo is on /g/ tooChrist alive man you sure get around don't you?
sonic has been fighting the gas chamber since 1991
>>109001727>that anon is unproductive like you cant make it work cant make it breed its just useless
>>109001282I would be surprised if China did. They've been doing retarded shit like this since the communist revolution.
>>109001674population centers will literally never be independent because they can't grow food.sorry Thiel, you're never getting your technofeudalist city-states.
>>109001790do you know how drinking dilute dissolved uranium ions in drinking water would actually kill you?heavy metal toxicity.the radioactivity is peanuts compared to the chemical similarity of uranium to heavy metals like cadmium/mercury/lead, all of which catalyze the production of reactive oxygen species in cellular environments.
>>109003884people do not understand how geologically common uranium is. shit's fucking *everywhere.* radon is everywhere literally because uranium decaying into radon is everywhere.
>>109004603most of that uranium is underground and the ground is a good radiation blockerradon is particularly nasty though because it exists as a noble gas meaning it can easily be inhaled, plus its also far more radioactive than just uranium alone as evidence of its short half-life. Most people aren't actually at risk of radon irradiation though unless you happen to live directly downwind of a stripmine or industrial park
>>109004586That's the major problem with using depleted uranium rounds and armor for war materiel.As no doubt most people here know, heavy metals are relatively safe when in metallic form but are harmful at any dose when in ionic form.Lead is relatively stable, so even though it's not good that it's used in a lot of ammunition the contamination is still generally localized and minor.Uranium is pyrophoric, when exposed to a lot of friction, such as when something hits a DU armor plate or when a DU round hits a target, it'll partially (or fully) ignite and a lot of uranium ions will spread over a large area and the contamination will remain for a long time. Also the dust will stay in the air for an extended period and vastly increase exposure. It's very, very toxic.>>109004603Many water distribution centers have filters for uranium to make fresh water that have high levels of naturally occurring uranium safe to drink.
>>109004620i was refuting a comment worrying about uranium scarcity for nuclearit ain't scarce at all - and REALLY easy to find.likewise with thorium.in fact, fuel reprocessing lost much of its research funding in the US because uranium became so ridiculously cheap to acquire within decades of the first nuclear power plants.
>>109004620More than decay you have to concern yourself with how it decays and how you're exposed to it.Radon typcially radiates alpha radiation, which is by far the worst one that can occur inside your body, which is what happens when you breathe it in. It can also typically be stopped by a piece of paper.
>>109001254Surely that cannot be efficient...Also who says greentards are against Nuclear? That's a decisively Germanic type of autism.
>>109001727You are wrong.Food can be grown and there are trees very close to that location. Only because is not flat terrain with a micro climate ideal for industrial farming doesn't mean the land is unproductive.
>>109001617I don’t think that’s the case. If you want the West to be more energy insecure you use any energy source that isn’t coal or solar, at least for Europe. Nuclear fuel is all sourced from Kazakhstan which is surrounded by Russians and sandniggers on all sides, gas and oil is sourced from sandniggers and Russians, coal also sourced from Russians because there is not enough of it in EU anymore, wind is extremely unreliable because while sun at least always shines for half a day followed by night for half a day, wind can be completely random. Hydro is already build on every river and dam where you can build it and geothermal requires very specific spots to build. For US idk because US has tons of resources thanks to its bigger size and lower population density.
>>109004656There are a lot of papers citing how long resource x will last that are used for scaremongering. They typically only take into account actual mines or at best proven reserves.If nuclear actually started to become the backbone of the global energy grid we would soon start to reprocess fuel and build reactors that can actually used >90% of the fuel instead of just 1-2% such as in a typical second generation BWR.
>>109004679>>I don’t think that’s the case. If you want the West to be more energy insecure you use any energy source that isn’t coal or solar, at least for Europe. As I stated I disagree. I think they want Europe to build solar specifically to weaken the European grid, they want what happened to the Iberian grid last year to be more common, they want the de-industrialization of Germany to accelerate. A part of their plan is to export solar PV cheaply. >Nuclear fuel is all sourced from Kazakhstan which is surrounded by Russians and sandniggers on all sides,>Nuclear fuel is all sourced from KazakhstanAustralia has a lot of mines and additional reserves.Europe has a lot of reserves too, Sweden could start uranium mine in a few years if the will was there. Uranium, or thorium, supply and a not a major issue. Rare earth minerals for super alloys used in nuclear reactors is a far worse problem. >gas and oil is sourced from sandniggers and Russians, coal also sourced from Russians because there is not enough of it in EU anymore, wind is extremely unreliable because while sun at least always shines for half a day followed by night for half a day, wind can be completely random. Hydro is already build on every river and dam where you can build it and geothermal requires very specific spots to build.The more solar and wind the grid has, the more reliant on gas one becomes. Did you know Rome is on approximately the same latitude as New York?You can't go much further south they Rome and still be in Europe and new York is in the northern US. Solar is not a good option for Europe for most of the year, except for a few countries. You typcially get less than 30W per square meter at noon for several months of the year in large parts of Europe. You'd need batteries that lasts for months if you rely too much on solar.
>>109004745just use a separated flow battery and you can store charge for centuries by simply... separating the two sides physically. the extra infrastructure vs solid states is only really a problem for mobile batteries where weight is a problem (e.g. cars, drones), it's a nonissue for static installations.thinking grid storage requires anything more complex than cheap-as-fuck lead acid batteries is always a midwit take.
>>109004796If you want to store 3 months worth of grid consumption the feasibility is limited by a lot more factors than price.Space becomes a major factor. Build time becomes a major factor.Very high EROI of your energy production becomes critical if you don't want to put your country on a downward spiral.Catastrophic failure becomes a major problem.There are many more factors that makes seasonal storage a very difficult problem.
>>109001617>I assume this is because they think that if the west heavily invests in solar that will weaken their gridsNot if, they assume the west will invests in solar as part of Paris agreement. Just like Brazil with their flex fuel production, third world like China with sufficient tech progress tend to invest and look for future (usually green energy) tech as a way for them to gain a marketshare in the future because it's relatively new and thus give them with a similar starting point as everyone else
>>109004828you underestimate the joules that can be stored in large tanks of electrolyte. space wise it'd be comparable to strategic fuel reserves - entirely doable, and no more prone to catastrophic failure than such reserves are.
>>109001254It would take roughly 1.7% of France's total area to be overed with a 50% solar, 50% windmill mix to cover 100% electricity usage. Double it to 3.5 if you want full electrification of all cars: delivery trucks, personal vehicles etc.Is 96.5% area for everything else not a sufficient amount of place?
How exactly do Solarfags intend to keep all those solar panels clean? Solar panels lose a considerable amount of efficiency to dirt buildup and being exposed to the elements. For small solar projects this is obviously simple but for ones on the scale needed to properly replace coal would require a substantial amount of regular maintenance and it's not trivial
>>109002304>ask germoneyGermany and most of Europe in general is a terrible argument for solar and wind because the weather is fucking gloomy as hell over there. Dunkelflaute is a very uniquely Europoor phenomenon. Compared to anywhere in the Southwest, where the average amount of sunny days per year is 300, or the midwest where the wind every now and again gets so strong it eats a few farmhouses.The fact that America has some of the most energy rich land practically anywhere in the world yet is allergic to utilizing it, while Europe who has some of the most energy poor land in the world and is deadset on utilizing it is some sort of sick cosmic joke.
>>109004888>How exactly do Solarfags intend to keep all those solar panels clean?I have panels on my roof and I haven't cleaned them even once, and they've been there for over 2 years now. Seems to work fine. I guess the rain is enough?
>>109004920>The fact that America has some of the most energy rich land practically anywhere in the world yet is allergic to utilizing it,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_ProjectYuropoors could never
>>109004920>Germany and most of Europe in general is a terrible argument for solar and windnah this is bullshitGermany and most of Europe is shit for solar and wind and DESPITE that those are becoming the cheapest sources of electricity, now that batteries are going down in price year by year.Solar and to a lesser degree wind won. It'll take a decade or two for reality to catch up but there's no amount of big oil propaganda that can stop it, especially when energy is one of the most basic things that every country wants to be independent on. If you're an oilless cuck and burgers start a sand war you're fucked in 2 months. If you're a solar cuck and chinks embargo your ass so no more panels or batteries you have 20 years to figure your shit out.
>>109004936I got nearly blinded driving pas this fucker and thought someone activated helios one
>>109004936https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemasolar_Thermosolar_PlantAlso that plant is owned by Spanish investment bank
>>109004942solar honestly feels like cheating if you know anything about energy production. solid state flat panels (trivial to manufacture compared to motors/generators) made of some of the most abundant materials on the planet that you can just plop in a field - nothing else was ever going to truly compete once they exceeded a level of efficiency they surpassed about a decade ago. now they're so cheap nothing will ever be able to compete with them again.
>>109004927the electricity powering your home is actually fake (communist lies) and gay (woke)
>>109001618anyone that makes this argument is a dumb nigger. You may ban me now nigger mod. Cry about it.
>>109004828If you worry about build time then you nuclear is even less viable because of how costly it is to build.
>>109004920It’s because in Europe every other energy source is even worse, no oil, no gas, ver little quality coal, no uranium. Americans are spoiled with all that energy which allowed oil jews to completely take over Republican Party because of muh petrodollar and generations of shared interest with 80 year old politicians. Only country that has every energy source in abundance would choose to fuck itself over this much.
>>109005220Glad to know that the Democrats will allow nuclear power since they're not in the pocket of the oil companies.
>>109004874A) the cost to do that would be enormous B) how do you provide electricity at night C) 100% of the land is being used for something as it is, what 3.5% are you going to take away for this project? Forests? Farmland? Residential housing? Industrial/commercial space?
>>109001254Than burning coil and oil? Yes, fuck these stupid unusable rocks where 0.5 animals live, gimme recyclable energy
>>109001254>solar bad>nuglear bad>coal bad>gas bad>wind badso how do we energy
>>109005320we hire 10 million Indians to run on giant hamster wheels connected to electrical generators to provide energy for us. It won't be green energy, but it'll be brown energy
>>109003007>Of course the big problem is getting it all to the designated storage facility safely.its notits a solved problem40 years ago
>>109005320niglear good actually
>>109001254I have no problem with this. Not sure about China but in Europe if we used just one percent of land territory of Spain (in hot and arid regions) for solar we could be generating literally all the required electricity for Europe.
>>109001254Not my country not my problem.
>>109001791What makes you think posting an AI summary, one which you don't understand, is OK?
>>109001254>a bit of harmless nuclear waste"A peer-reviewed research article by Dr. Steven Wing found a significant increase in cancers between 1979 and 1985 among people who lived within ten miles of TMI. In 2009, Dr. Wing stated that radiation releases during the accident were probably "thousands of times greater" than the NRC's estimates." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident#Health_effects_and_epidemiology
>>109001493Who cares when cars are designed like coffins? People are unhappy because every aspect of life is uncomfortable.
>>109004920this photo shows why spain is wining hard in the eu
>>109005051its also spanish tech
>>109005197No seasonal energy storage for electricity production is even proposed.There are several for thermal storage for heating pipes and houses in the winter but that is not seasonal storage for electricity production and it can't be.
>>109005719france wouldn’t allow that much exchange, that is the problemwe need the energy intensive industries in spain
simply embrace the decentralized and low-impact solution of residential solarnuclear inherently requires a centralized authority to regulate and subsidize (bribe) energy companies to maintain and provide you the energy at a still inflated cost (stealing your surplus value) and allow them a instant monopoly to charge you even more money in some circumstances to give back energy to your meter in case you're on vacation. and if they pick up some bad debt in the nuclear reactor like FirstEnergy, they just bribe your state government to subsidize them againthis is a small case in which america's spread out population density is a huge asset. each individual can create
>>109006346but solar does produce electricity even during winter.
>>109006392Yes, your chosen position is still in southern Europe and still it produces about one third as much during winter as during leak summer.Even in a best case scenario you'd need 6 times overproduction, in actuality you'd need much more since neither the weather not demand is perfectly stable. Consumption is highest during winter.In northern Europe you'll often get a few tens of watts per square meter at noon during winter, and the sun will only be up for a few hours every day.
>>109006419i agree, northern europe is in a worse postion for solar. however americans should be building it everwhere, they have unlimited land and sun all year.
>>109006392>>109006419I'd like you to find a grid engineer that says they can build a stable grid that regularly has 6 times overproduction from DC electricity converted to AC via inverters, now remember those were favorable numbers
>>109006441>however americaSo did you concede that solar doesn't really work for Europe or are you just taking without a point?
>>109001791Sonnet is only good for roleplaying my mother being 9ft tall and putting me back in her pussy
>>109001727>that land is unproductiveBut for some reason all that land was terraced
Shit thread, didn't read
>>109008791because before the improvements of industrial agriculture, really bad land was still being developed just to feed the people?
>>109006455Sure if your definition of Europe excludes the south.
>>109009033his definition is probably some shitty baltic/nordic country
>>109001254>harmless nuclear wastecool, then we can count on you to store it in your home?
>>109009033>>109009391My fucking analysis was from the data you posted from southern France, which is southern Europe.
>>109009434Do you have a reason why we can't just ship it to the desert? Do we lack the technology to securely transport single kilos of nuclear waste?
>>109009033>if your definition of Europe excludes the southAfaik, isn't building infrastructure like that in places like Southern France basically impossible because of all the rich fags that live there?
>>109004603How much of it is arranged in ways that are good for mining?
>>109009510>Do you have a reason why we can't just ship it to the desert?you can find some good reasons in this very same thread
>>109008749
>>109012570not really other than some retard posting 'would you like it in X'i just told you i want it shipped to the desert dumbfuck. come up with something new
Green energy is GOATed, it's the only reason why EU is so resilient it didn't go to deep enery crisis when Russia attacked Ukraine and USA attacked Iran. Just about every commercial building with large rooftop area uses solar to cut energy bill. It's downright sad how the fight against its undeniable utility value has completely degenerated into retarded feels and identity politics yet some mouth breathers like OP still keep at it.
>>109012660I can't speak for EUAnons but in the US, electricity from the grid is so cheap that solar roofs just don't make any financial sense. They have a high upfront cost that takes literally decades to recoup although you can get government subsidies and grants for one but the motivation just isn't there and won't be until electricity prices start rising
>>109001599>>109001609>>109001618>>109001721>>109002177why can't you low int oil lobby shills just go fight and die in Iran like we all know you want to?any real electricity-pilled thinker knows that energy isn't a "this or that" problem. you're supposed to diversify you brainless fucks.The ONLY real reason you shouldn't go with solar is because China is the only serious producer of solar panels, and you would be tying critical national infrastructure to a country known for picking fights over meaningless bullshit.
>>109012669The real problem with getting solar panels installed over your house is that the installers are basically scam artists--car dealership energy. huge bullshit.
>>109012671Diversify into technologies that actually work, not build out the same capacity in several different formats because all of them don't work at the same time. Especially when you can't store excess production at any kind of scale.
>>109012671>any real electricity-pilled thinker knows that energy isn't a "this or that" problemThere is always at least a bit of "this or that" as long as infrastructure can't be built without cost and without any maintenance. Any investment in one type of energy production is most likely a money not spent on other forms and two different types of energy production are never directly interchangable on a grid.>The ONLY real reason you shouldn't go with solar is because ChinaReally, is that the only reason?There are many reasons given in this thread which states why you shouldn't go with solar. There are many reasons not given in this thread as to why you shouldn't go with solar.The issue of grid stability is a major one and it hasn't even been touched on in this thread.Someone posted some average solar radiance for southern France and a reply said that very data shows that you'd need 6 times overproduction even in the most favorable of terms for solar to be viable.That would in turn mean that your solar panels would need a real EROI of 24 to even reach and effective EROI of 4 which is far below what is necessary to even maintain a modern society and it's certainly not enough to advance a modern society.I'd say that is at least one other reason as to why solar isn't always a good option.
>>109012824Haven't you read this thread? Even seasonal energy storage takes up virtually no space and is extremely cheap. As to why not one has built anything like that or even proposed to, well... I'm sure the answer is oil companies!
>>109012824ok, your oil is cut off by Iran, your solar panels are cut off by China, and all you have left is shitty coal from Australia.At least with nuclear it's only HALEU fuels that are controlled by Russia and that's more because no one has a reason to make them in the US prior to small modular reactors.>>109012845I'm talking from a geopolitical perspective. It's incredibly retarded to go all-in on one production method as some anons in this thread seem to want because they're clueless and don't understand that somebody is always trying to fuck someone else over.Nuclear is an excellent base-load generator, which implies that it is literally incapable of powering an entire country throughout the entire day because power needs shift rapidly.Other forms of power generation are not optional.The same goes for solar and wind. The only power sources that are immune to shifting power needs (coal and oil) are also extremely vulnerable to dickheads on the other side of the planet.
>>109012867Hydro can deal with the shifts for most grids. I am aware that hydro can't really be expanded to any significant degree in most parts of the world but for those grids that already have a decent amount of hydro you don't really need anything more than adding more base load power production.
>>109012885At least in the US, pretty much every dam that could be made has been made, and the ones that we have are considered somewhat ecological disasters due to not having fish ladders and certain operators not being able to afford maintenance and such.Personally I'm not really a fan of the concept, other than that they make nice lakes to fish at.
>>109001674>Solar panels grant limited independence to high net worth individuals on a 10 year time frameI don’t think you understand how dirt cheap panels are. Batteries also halved in price compared to 2022. Even fucking canada gets good returns out of solar setup nowadays
>>109004562With enough cheap energy you can grow food vertically.
>>109012851Did you use AI to summarize the thread? That's the opposite of all comments.
>>109013128I know their market value in the US hasn't budged recently, and the cost of batteries most certainly hasn't halved. Maybe under your local commie subsidy regime things are different.
>>109014138No, I simply read all posts.I'm a luddite autist.
>>109002754I love when faggots try to convince me to give up my toyota for one of these burning death traps. Have fun getting out when your electric door handle fries and you can't find the hidden manual release.
The problem with creating more energy is that it doesn't solve any problem or make the world better for existing humans. All it does is allow MORE humans to exist making everything more crowded and shittier for everyone. The matrix was right, humans are a virus that only knows how to spread, we are incapable of living in symbiosis with nature.
>>109014189So you hallucinated the part where everyone agreed with you.
>>109014223Agreed about what? I never claimed anyone agreed with me unless you thought my sarcasm about seasonal energy storage wasn't sarcasm.
My vacations house is entirely solar powered because energy jews wanted $6k just to connect to the grid so I spent less for literally free powerPoweribg the entire thing including a shitton of AC entirely through placebo, hell yea
>>109005320geothermal>just dig down till its hot>done
>>109014217You're conflating humans with niggers. More humans makes everything better and cheaper.
>>109012671>oil lobby shillsLMAO, you are mentally ill or an actual shill if you think defending solar = shilling for oillook at the current situation china. they don't depend on oil imports anymore, and they are WINNING: >>>/biz/62337006every fucking accusation of you fags is an actual confession, you muttarded OIL SHILLSyour country is going down. enjoy centuries of misery and infighting while your zionist pedo leaders manipulate you to steal as much as they can from you
>>109014847NTA but just so you know China brags about it's installed capacity not actual production of solar PV which is still very low and it's not really growing as a percentage of their total production.Worse yet their grid is quite inflexible so a lot of their solar PV electricity is just sent to ground because they can't handle production they varies with the weather.In fact they aren't even trying to fix that, their base load producers are on long terms contracts with fixed quotas.
>>109015098ok, but that doesn't explain why china doesn't give a shit about oil imports. do you think they don't need energy to manufacture all the stuff we buy from them?
>>109015559They do need oil but they are constantly looking for alternatives.One very major alternative they have implemented completely is ammonium fertilizer from coal instead of haber-bosch from methane. They are the only country in the world that does this outside of laboratories and it's otherwise a very large reason as to why methane is needed.They are heavily invested in coal cracking for petrochemichals.
>>109014847See >>109001577Oil companies spearheaded the alternative energy movement and anti-nuclear hysteria before that. The more impractical and expensive the energy source, the more press coverage it gets.The tiny silver lining of tech oligarchy is they're digging up all this shitcanned energy research which oil companies would like you to forget existed.
>>109001254it's about economics as well, you retardnuclear energy is very expensive. solar is cheap.i somehow doubt chinamen care about the environment. they have increased energy needs, so they picked the most cost-efficient solution
>>109015822Solar is only cheap if you don't care about availability.
>>109001254this is unironically better, you tub of lard
>>109015749>ammonium fertilizer from coalvery interesting i didnt know this onehttps://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3353798/china-turns-coal-power-plant-exhaust-cheap-effective-fertiliser
>>109015980You convinced me and I'm not tub of lard.
>>109016956That's not the main way they produce ammonia, and to certainly will never be even though it sounds somewhat neat.They crack coal to form synthesis gas and from there it's haber-nosch as the rest of the world does it.
>>109017035i see the explanation on the wikipedia has the best diagram everhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_production#Coal
>>109017035and as for from the co2 recovery, it would be basically cogeneration, like using coal to make fertilizer, with some electricity as byproduct.it wont be worth it as an electric plant
>>109001254Why are you so dead-set on preventing someone else from using their land to make a profit?Why do you hate freedom?
China has excessive solar power generation already. What China also has is a federal state that demands greenwashing metrics from the provinces in order to get investment from Beijing. So they keep shitting out more and more solar farms they don't really need.Bejing is trying and it's doing things like making panel prices float on the open market instead of subsidizing them but they're behind the curve. But the way things are going you're liable to get bureaucratically driven ghost farms like China's real estate ghost town.
>>109018484>someone else using their land to make a profit?That's not what they're doing.
>>109018519>China has excessive solar power generation already. >So they keep shitting out more and more solar farms they don't really need.This is truly elite level chutspah looking at what's happening right now. /g/eets will never learn.
>>109018720Buddy I can't dumb it down for you any further, but having 1000% of your power needs filled by solar for a few hours during peak daylight doesn't help you get off the petroleum jew any more than have 10,000% power fulfillment for a couple hours in the day does.
>>109018750Yeah...you are dumb enough to be from Texas.
>>109018833>picIt doesn't. That's the problem.
china invests in solar not because it's good, but because it's a hedge against an oil blockade. their energy demand also grows at such a pace that "everything, everywhere" is a fairly sensible policyafter the failed us/israeli war on iran they're now in a much more secure position, turns out they overhedged by an order of magnitude. this is also why so much of their automobile fleet is electric.hope that helps
>>109012671protip you inbred communist retard: "big oil" owns all the fucking wind and solar investment in the west
>>109018861>because i say soooooo!/g/eets everybody.
>>109018913jesus christ do elon really make every of their bigcompanies save every other? like why? nobody cares of the small ones
>>109018913>another 0.5 hours of ridethroughexcellent, more subsidies!
>>109001254>harmless nuclear wastelol
There's a huge, consistent gender divide on the topic of nuclear powerI don't know if they just don't understand it or they're scared of math or what but women have a total intuition towards anarcho-primitivism and it's probably cost our civilization a tier of development just on the energy question alone.The antivax movement is also all women.I wonder if 5000 years ago they were railing against the evil of Big Hut and claiming that it's just healthier to sleep under the stars. I wonder how long it took them to ascent to the planting of crops in rows
>>109019585Women's opinions don't drive policy
