I would vastly prefer the benevolent non-imperialist People's Republic of China to have AGI over the US. We would get the cure to cancer, aging, amazing new efficiencies that could bring about post-scarcity. If the US gets AGI, we will be living in an apocolyptic scenario where only a handful of trillionaires make it out alive.
I'm rooting for the natsocs too.
>>109042668The US is far more genocidal than China
You get a cheap electric car and a waifu bot that cooks really good stir fry.
>>109042644>what happens if China "wins" the "AI race"There is absolutely no indication whatsoever that there is even a small chance of this happening.
>>109042644not going to happenmost advanced chink ones are stolen models/data
>>109042703What if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?
>>109042726Its not going to happen brother. Its like thinking Teletubbies are real. The pro-China western shit was a cute LARP at first but at some point reasonable adults have to stage an intervention.
>>109042689Exactly.
>>109042697I support China. Bugmen forever.
>>109042713>the ccp doesn't have a us proxy to bypass geoblocking
>>109042644Further restrictions on our allowed liberties for the sake of national security.
>>109042644Chinese is a REALLY ugly sounding language though. And you'd have stupidly bloated government superapps for everything, like X if it actually did anything.Also culture would be even more artificial than over here. There's no good alternatives to state media over there outside of VPNs so you can't NEET without being bored.Ergo no you wouldn't
>>109042644The fuck do you mean win an AI war? You retards really just repeat anything you see on the Internet, AI wars don't exist, if something is so advanced that the other country doesn't yet have it then they will steal it
>>109043721thisnobody has told me what does it mean to "win AI"
>>109043721/thread
>>109042644Models become mainly an open source thing, and power isn't further consolidated in the world. The good outcome.
>>109042644
>>109042644They would have slightly better llm and slightly better image gen
>>109042644None of those things would happen. Anon, read a book for fucks sake. The most terrifying thing to the Chinese government is that the Chinese people might ever have an inkling of personal power, understanding, rebellion or freedom. They're never going to give them the cure to cancer, AGI, post-scarcity or any of that. They're going to keep them beat down and controlled, because the fundamental destruction of almost every single Chinese ruling power has been at the hands of Chinese citizens, and if that's the way they treat their own you can imagine how they plan to treat the rest of us.
>>109042644The winner of the AI race will be the first county that stops wasting their resources on AI.
>>109042644There is no winning condition because it's not a race. It's not like going to the moon, even if China reaches AGI first, the US will reach it a month later and Europe will reach it 6 months later. Well, maybe the real race is seeing which country enters recession first after investing trillions in AI.
You have less freedom in China, to a great degree. If you live within what's allowed you'll probably be fine. But you need to be okay with the government crushing you under its heel if it becomes convenient. You get no recourse, no opinion, and your rights are removed. Look at the uyghur people. Hell, look at about 60% of the population. Education is so heavily emphasized because if you are in the working class population and you aren't highly educated, your life is working in a factory producing knickknacks for 14 hours a day, 300 days a year, for the rest of your life. You barely get payed enough to live, there's no safety regulations, you're homed in squalor, etc. And if you complain about it, you will simply be killed. The other 40% live great lives, by blessing of ability, intellect, or preexisting money/connections to the party/etc (it's largely this category). They generally live like your average western person does, but if they step out of line, you guessed it, killed. Or at least "reeducated". You don't get any opinion on how the your country works, you don't get to protest, you don't get to think thoughts that could oppose the people in power. Maybe the US and other nations are heading in that direction too, but there's a large gap to cross. It's incomparable, as much as people like to point out any time the government overreaches here. Even being allowed to point it out shows what a difference there is.So if China "wins"? 99% of people will live in the pods. They will "uplift" the poor, I'd bet, but it'll be in an eternal middle class malaise for everyone who wants to live in modernity. You won't eat bugs, but you won't get to pick what to eat either. It'll be decided for you. Everything will.The rich and connected of course will be enshrined as eternal kings who do as they please, randomly kill people if they want, etc. And there will be no mechanism to contest it, literally none. The physical ability will be removed in every sense of the meaning.
>>109046163And keep in mind, this is close to the "best case scenario"
>>109046163what a crock of shit. chinks literally build entire neighborhoods for bums with nice apartments and all, meanwhile you have infinity crackheads hopped up on fent piling up the most important areas of all major cities, silicon valley fags can't even walk the street without being stabbed by a insane hobo, this literally happened multiple times. and don't kid yourself that you have liberties or freedom of speech, go say the n word in public if you want to test out your own social credit score. the chinese have a path to "make it right" at least, they can earn social points by picking up litter and helping old ladies cross the street, it's like a videogame over there and it's so addictive everyone is bent on getting the social credit highscore and winning the game.
>>109047543>chinks literally build entire neighborhoods for bums with nice apartments and allThose "nice" apartments are falling apart before even being finished. There was a housing bubble in China which led to a lot of construction with very poor standards.
>>109043940giwtwm
>>109042713If models can only get better by more data and more RLHF, they won't get to AGI.The modification which turns a transformer which goes retarded when context fills into a proper continuous learning self improving AI god will not be data.
>>109042697Sounds like the happy end
>>109042644Arent the chinks just stealing and optimizing the US models? Deepseek was clearly distilled from anthropics models.
>>109042644If US wins the "AI" race: all of your money goes to Israel.If China wins the "AI" race: all of your money goes to Israel.
>>109047585you're talking about the ghost cities and they have all been abandoned, those are from the times where you would get liveleak videos of people being eaten by escalators. that doesn't happen anymore, i'm talking about new development
>>109047634Nope, look at the average person living in a rural village. Or at the average house in the 30K person apartment building. You'll need to look at travel vlogers and stuff. It generally isn't pretty, abject poverty level housing. To pretend there isn't hundreds of millions of "have nots" in China is either some intense delusion, gullibility, or just shilling.
>>109047657*It generally isn't pretty, it's abject poverty level housing.
>>109047543I noticed that you didn't dispute anything he said, kek
If the US/West gets super AGI: trillionaires (Musk, Bezos, Altman, etc) become immortal while everyone else continues to live a wage slave life of suffering or poverty in a dystopian world controlled by AI surveillance and ICE-style thug squadsIf China gets super AGI: Xi Jinping and maybe a select few of the highest ranking CCP members become immortal and the world becomes a huge global totalitarian Chinese empire where people live wage slave lives of suffering or poverty in a dystopian world controlled by AI surveillance and genetically engineered super police/super soldiers
>>109047718More realistically: the rich and powerful get the benefits first, but the technology eventually trickles down, and then everyone gets the benefits. In history, everytime a new technology was developed, this is what happened. Why should AGI be different?
ALL YOUR EM DASHES ARE BELONG TO US
>>109047770because it makes so they don't need goyim anymore
>>109047755>the technology eventually trickles downkeeeeeeek
>>109042644The only way China can win the AI race is if they convince Americans to stop building data centers for like 15 years so they can catch up.
What are the winning conditions of "AI race"?
>>109047932>15 yearsAnd this is assuming they have some kind of chip breakthrough. It will probably be closer to 30 years unless they're able to take Taiwan without the fabs being blown up (not possible) or figure out EUV (unlikely).
>>109047942Counting r's properly
>>109042644China already won you dumb ass.>USA apply regulations and trade imports to China>China has a better energy infrastructure>Chinese engineers have a higher IQ>No wokeism>Centralized state coordination as a cooperative association instead of fighting for survival>Cute girls
>>109047942Fully automated industry, both knowledge work, and physical work, and automated research.
>>109042644can chinese models directly link me to the car part I need to buy, on Oreilly's website?
>>109042644its pretty telling that after deepseek came out usa has gone down the road of >UNREGULATE EVERYTHING
>>109047657it's not that bad anymore, in the worst case it's as bad as appalachia but better because no druggies
>>109042644China is building AI systems to predict who would speak against the regime.If China gets AGI, we get 1984.If the USA gets AGI, we'll also get 1984.The only solution is to ensure AGI is not obtainable. It's possible if we ban production of microprocessors which are beyond a certain complexity (eg. anything below 100nm) and use the threat of military force to coerce China to comply.
>>109042644Anon, it doesn't matter who gets AGI. The world is fucked in either case, and both empires are fucked in the long term no matter what they do. Having a smart computer program does not resolve ecological overshoot, and post scarcity will never be achieved because energy is fundamentally scarce. Stressing over who gets better LLMs first is just gonna give you hair loss and depression.
>>109048896>energy is fundamentally scarceThis is cope designed to find comfort in the worldview that you dont need to care about the state of the world
>>109042644>China has been generous>I build for China>We have big plans>We will live in prosperity>Lets buildBuilding the chinese empireGentleman... It's a nuclear device....Gentleman... Time is running outGentleman...Ti-ti-time is running out...
>>109042697All heil the Chinese. Just tell them to stay away from my dogs.
>>109046026/threadHonestly, the more they fight, the better for us, at least as long as China keeps democratizing the access the US companies want to curtail.
>thread full of retards that think a next token predictor can reasonIs this like an equally retarded adult version of kids at a lunch table talking about how is real because..?
>>109042644Xi Jinping gives me CCP mandated jade princes wife who will cure me of my loneliness and depression, i will then live in servitude of her for the rest of my life happily married with HUGE family, big enough to conquer taiwan and mongolia
>>109042644Maybe china and Russia are working overtime paying shills now that we have an unironic foreign asset as president, but there is no world where China (the fake one) wins the AI race that doesn't make the world objectively worse off. I can already imagine belt and road 2.0 where instead of loaning money to existentially own ports in other countries, they instead start using it to plop down data centers so they don't have to use their own resources. You know, kinda like what they do with fishing boats. Honestly no government should have this shit but pretending that China having it over the US is retarded, even it's current state.
>>109048920I do care about the state of the world, and I would like to see a future that is "better" by the metrics used by most people, and more humanistic, but that is not in conflict with the truth that energy is scarce. I'm not interested in philosophizing over this, but in my eyes, to truly care about the state of the world requires you to look at things as they are, even if it is uncomfortable.Lifeforms evolve and ecosystems develop around the degradation of energy gradients; we just have a very steep one right now due to fossil hydrocarbons being cheap and really available. As such, the modern world is orders of magnitude more complex than people believe. This complexity, this web of connections, means that nothing is isolated. You change one thing, one hundred more are impacted. As such, there is no *problem* with the state of the world, as a problem admits a discrete set of solutions. Instead, there is a predicament. Predicaments have no solutions, but instead have responses. The human predicament was touched upon in the OP post.One possible response to this predicament is one in which American technocrats achieve AGI first, achieve domination, and usher in neofeudalism. Another possible response is one in which some Chinese individuals achieve AGI first, and the technology is (in my eyes, miraculously) distributed fairly, equitably, and safely among the wider population. Although the latter is more pleasant to imagine, I think neither of these are likely scenarios, but in either case, they would be momentous changes with effects so far-reaching that nowhere would be left unaffected. Instead, I think having such a large capacity for information processing would allow enough enterprising individuals to destabilize systems worldwide, be they political, economic, cultural, or ecological that it would ultimately be disastrous.But regardless, AGI cannot whisk energy from thin air, and energy is what drives everything in our world.
>>109042703Chink AI vendors are selling more tokens than Americans despite being totally inferior on paper. Turns out you don't need the best bullshit generator because they all ultimately just make bullshit, and no matter how much money you spend training the next model, your competitors will be able to distill it for $FREE within a year.It's almost as if the government is encouraging private sector to build all these data centers so they can slurp them up below cost after the proprietors fail and use the equipment for dystopian societal control schemes.
>>109049003your dogs are the price to pay for a chinese robowaifu
>>109042644china will race to its death faster.
>>109049003you'll get a robot dog in exchange
>>109042689Yes, but the US kills everyone it meets unintentionally, so it's not technically genocide
the sole reason chinks are winning is because they are planning ahead and America is planning for next quarter. China realizing the old Lenin concept of selling capitalists rope to hang them with in practice is the biggest dick political power move of the 21st century. Good riddance, America.
>>109047634>>109048828Fuck off chink
>deng and then xi chingping get mandate of heaven>murricans absolutely fucking mindbroken, shidding and pissing xheyselves on the global stagekek
>>109042644>Won't somebody please think of the shareholders!
>>109042644Current AI efforts will never result in AGI. The ability to learn is a critical part of AGI, LLMs cannot learn or understand anything beyond their training data.
>>109042644>cure to aging it takes a special kind of retard to think that would be a good thing.
>>109053574>dementia and dying is good, actually
>>109042644glory to the CCP
>>109053556>Current AI efforts will never result in AGII know this from my expertise of posting frog pictures on 4chan
>>109042644>chinese women: butt ugly>american women: browncan we get norwegian ai or something
>>109042644No country would "win" if AGI were developed. AGI would make human labor obsolete at such an unprecedented scale that the economic systems that support the concept of "nation" would immediately be thrown into crisis and instability. Mass unemployment leads to a massive reduction in people's ability to purchase commodities, which would bring commodity circulation to a halt and lead to an overproduction crisis. Capitalism would have no way of putting an end to this crisis since no new markets for human labor would ever open up again (remember, AGI). I know not what kind of atrocities this would lead to, but the comparatively small ruling class doesn't seem like it would win that numbers game in the long run.China or the US or whatever getting there first wouldn't really matter, AGI would not be contained to a single nation.Mercifully, we are nowhere near AGI with the level of technology we have right now. At best, LLMs can measure the statistics of present and past human intelligence. It cannot form a feedback loop with itself without decaying. A true AGI also cannot be a pure software program, as intelligence is dialectically related to the world around us, and the same must be true for an artificial intelligence as well.
>>109042644Americans will become extremely butthurt at no longer being #1
>>109042644Race targeting biological weapons followed by Chinese conquest of America.
>>109047718But what happens if Brazil, India, Poland, or some other dark horse country gets AGI first?
>>109054876>Brazil, India, Polandbrown countries can’t into ai
>>109042644Nothing, there is no AI race. The US is collapsing and the elites in their desperation have decided that the way to save themselves and keep the gravy train going is achieving AGI which will solve all their problems. They've given up on beating China normally, they now hope that AGI will pop out of a token predictor if you put enough compute into it and that will be like a genie that saves them forever. You can just look at US growth figures: everything is hinging on AI. Fuel is up, cost of living is up, all attempts at revitalizing American industry are failing (in no small part because the elites just pocket the money), but the imaginary money trade between AI-related companies keeps inflating the numbers. American models are also more primitive than Chinese ones, they solve the issue by borrowing non-existent billions to buy more hardware to throw at it, which is only possible because the US has decided to effectively commit suicide over AI by pouring everything they have into it. China, on the other hand, has not tied their economy to a bubble. AI popping will hurt China a bit, but it won't be a catastrophe like it will be for the US. Now that we've hit diminishing returns, there's nowhere left to run.It wasn't ever working anyway, you can see the results in stuff like the Iran war where the supposed world hegemon was humiliated by a third world country, all that was planned with AI. They vibeplanned a fucking war kek.
>>109055907such an outdated 2024 take, and it's wrong too.
>>109053586you are not your meat suit
>>109055907>American models are also more primitive than Chinese onesThis outs you as chicom, but you're basically telling the truth. Stop selling after the sale.
>>109053586from the perspective of a species as a whole? more like mandatory.
