AMD zen 6 abandons igpu for a npu And all of a sudden Intel becomes a viable option againhttps://wccftech.com/amd-olympic-ridge-zen-6-ryzen-cpus-get-integrated-npu-at-the-cost-of-igpu/
>>109069060intel won
>>109069060Nobody uses the pitiful 2CU on the IOD for anything.
>>109069093The igpu has two big practical uses. You can use it for diagnostics or a backup gpu or as your primary gpu to drive your display if you don't need gaming graphics. How can a tiny npu provide better use cases than these? And I am asking this a little seriously as I don't have a great idea what a npu like this can do.
>>109069145The number of people who actually use the IGP to problem solve can probably be counted on one hand.
>>109069167Anyone who had a problem with their primary gpu was probably ecstatic they not only still had a gpu, but a way to tell their primary was the problem.Now what is anyone going to do with this tiny npu? Generate local anime images on a headless system when their gpu fails?
>>109069233Yeah, nah, reality doesn't line up with that. Most people don't build their own machines, they just buy some OEM tower, and they do nothing themselves. The number of people who built their own system, had a GPU issue, knew enough to connect their HDMI to the port on the mobo, and could actually figure shit out is insanely small. You are splitting a hair to the Nth degree.
>>109069255Use case for NPU?
>>109069060wow that's retardedif you have to buy a gpu with these then amd just lost low budget buildersa better than the average intel igpu was a selling point that tended to lock people into the amd ecosystemi guess they don't need them anymore, datacenter compute money must go crazy to abandon such an easy way of securing customers
>>109069060this is so insanely retardedhow can arrow lake have igpu and npu and zen 6 not?if you can't skip the useless npu
Dedicated GPUs are unreliable. They're one of the first things to die. An iGPU is a must-have for me.
>>109069258Windows Copilot and expanding the install base for their Xilinx IP
>>109069060Why would anyone need IGPU?They cause issues on linux too.
>>109069288retard
This is much bigger issueEvery cpu has 120TDP+Why did they ditch 65?
How did we go from iGPU in every Zen 5 CPU to iGPU in only some Zen 5 CPUs to no igpu in any Zen 6 CPU
>>109069308 Nova Lake is saying 300W TDP
>>109069060I only went amd for the igpu.Not playing my boomer slop on a dedicated gpu that draws over 90 watt when a 50ish watt 7600x3d plays that game at 60 fps with headroom to spare.
>>109069060I'm already seeing amdrones defending this lmao.Absolute subhuman filth.
>>109069308The high end Zen family has always been much higher than 65w. The Zen 1 1800X was 95w TDP, 125w PPT or something about that.
>>109069308My mb has the option for 65 and 105w limits. On my 9900x, the 105w performance is almost indistinguishable, the 65w loses about 10%. Of course I'd prefer a full 65w 9900x, but these are pretty good options if you're willing to give up a little
>>109069315>to iGPU in only some Zen 5 CPUsIf you want integrated graphics you buy an APU
>>109069557but a 9800X3D has an iGPU
>>109069578A worthless IGP weaker than integrated graphics 8 years ago. Its basal functionality doesn't have any practical purpose as you can just use command line functions without any GPU whatsoever. It existed to check a box and was used by no one.
>>109069557You can only buy mini-PCs or whatever with an APU inside, you can't buy your own APU
APU was always a terrible name. Nvidia calls theirs Superchips. This is why AMD loses.
>>109069655>you can't buy your own APUUh, yes, you can. AMD doesn't push them to market super fast because they're a low sale volume item in the builder market, but still current gen Strix Point is coming to socket AM5, and prior gen chips are also available.
>>109069258Windows already has various AI features built in on both 10 & 11 unless you are on ancient version with broken support.
>>109069675Superchips is false advertising because they aren't super at all. They have watered down tdp, clocks, and everything else.
>>109069675Nvidia marketing is pants on head retarded they call framegen more fps.
>>109069904What kind of performance difference would running these on the igpu be compared to inpu? Is it so significant igpus need to be abandoned?
>>109069949NPUs just accel at lower power
>>109069949what other anon said its lower power.like how igpus can accelerate video playback or monitors instead of firing up your dgpus which can use up 50-100w.
>>109069263>if you have to buy a gpu with these then amd just lost low budget buildersNo, they will still make APUs>>109070063>ike how igpus can accelerate video playback or monitors instead of firing up your dgpus whichNo, you use the display output on your dGPU, or even have it connected, it's "fired up".> can use up 50-100w.For video decode? Nope.This scenario you're imagining would only happen if you plug your display into your iGPU and disable your dGPU. Which no one does.
>>109069145>what a npu like this can dohaha yea..
>>109070145the display controller and gddr7 on nvidia has high idle power way more than any igpu on the market from intel/amd/snapdragon. you are delusional.and windows can process both gpus at once look at task manager. gpu0 & gpu1 are listed as active.
>>109070145Retard.
>>109070318Video decoder/encoder blocks are their own high level structures and total GPU power is low when they are being used by themselves
>>109070318>>109070321>the display controller and gddr7 on nvidia has high idle powerNot that much, but read again.Are you disabling your dGPU just to save that power?>nd windows can process both gpus at once look at task manager. Yes that's why you need to disable or remove the GPU to get away from the idle power you're worried about.
wtf is an npu?
>>109070391muh AI
>>109070391something that should be an add on card
>>109070391A low precision tile bassed accelerator for gay worthless workloads
>add npu>remove igpu>forced to use dgpu>dgpu has better integrated npuabsolute lol, amd never fails to disappoint
so if we can use GPU to accelerate AI stuff, can we do the reverse and use NPU to accelerate graphics?
>>109070440Its all 16b, 8b, maybe 4b, tiny low precision ops in sparce fake and gay format
>>109069308x86 is a dead ISA, you can't make it faster. they just pump up more power and crank up the clocks to make it faster than the previous generation
>>109070395>>109070403>>109070405literally just ordered a 250k plus instead of AM5. Thanks
>>109069060Team Blue is making a HUGE comeback in 2027.
>>109069145I game on an iGPU Ryzen 8700G just fine. Not only that, I do it inside a streacom DB4 case with NO active cooling, just radiative heat only.
>>109070704>GThat's a APU model anon. It has a much better GPU, like 8 times more powerful.
This whole thread is full of retards who can't or didn't bother to read.They are still making APUs with iGUP's and NPU's in them.Zen chips only got iGPU's a few generations ago. The high end parts used to not have them, this was fairly normal.If you want a GPU in your CPU, buy an APU.
>>109070758ok but can i buy an AMD CPU (not APU) WITHOUT the NPU?
>>109069060I mean if you want an AI system it seems legit.
>>109069060It really feels like AMD straight up abandoned their entire GPU division, not just iGPUs. NVIDIA is struggling to put out a good gaming GPU for years now and AMD has just sat around idle, doing NOTHING. Instead they focus on AI as well now. What a shit show.
>>109070889Strix Point and Strix Halo are pretty cool
>>109069093>intel removes features>"FUCKING SCAM">amd removes features>"n-nobody used it anyway"Every time. Offloading side monitors to the iGPU while dedicating the dGPU to the primary and all high performance applications thereof is the ideal measure.>>109069315Glazing AMD's asshole for just existing while acting like they have no competition tends to make them complacent and make them feel like they can get away with anything.
>>109070904>Every time. Offloading side monitors to the iGPU while dedicating the dGPU to the primary and all high performance applications thereof is the ideal measure.Sounds like a decent setup for an integrated APU also but you never see more than one HDMI port in a mobo.
>>109070789NoAMD made a big deal about Zen5 all coming with iGPUs now they are making it impossible to buy a CPU with a GPU, you can only get that if you buy an APU that they only put in miniPCs and Laptops nobody buys. Oh and steam decks.
>>109070965Right so if i'm not getting an APU i will be paying more for the CPU because it has an NPU i won't ever use
>>109070904When AMD introduced the paltry GPU segment on the IOD you spergs here were whining about it being a waste of silicon and pointless cost driver Autists can never be happy. You endlessly complain.
>>109070975>i will be paying more for the CPU because it has an NPU i won't ever useuntrue, Intel adds that useless shit and they slashed their CPU prices
>>109070904I don't know that I'd call this removing features so much as it's exchanging one good and useful feature for another, entirely useless one. Baffling decision now that everyone is heaping unending hatred on CopilotOS to the point where they're actively rolling back the anti-features.
>>109069060>NPU>Non-processing unit
>>109070922True, but then there's also always a DisplayPort right next to that single HDMI port.
>>109070904>Offloading side monitors to the iGPU while dedicating the dGPU to the primary and all high performance applications thereof is the ideal measure.The benefit of doing this is so tiny. Maybe 1% more FPS at most.>>109070965>AMD made a big deal about Zen5 all coming with iGPUsWhat big deal? It's always been a niche concern.>>109070994Yep.Over all it's bad, the iGPU is good to troubleshoot, but no one really missed it gen 1-4 because most of these usecases are contrived.The real question is how much die space did it take up? Looks like surprisingly a lot. Maybe removing it could be a worthwhile saving if AMD wasn't just milking consumers now that they are on top.
>>109069060>Is finally, finally ahead after decades>Panics>Fumbles hardI don't think they'll recover from this.
>>109071084>>What big deal? It's always been a niche concern.so niche it was added to every zen 5 cpu on launch
how can older arrow lake have both igpu and npu and zen 6 not?
>>109069060>abandoning igpu for a npuIdk who made that decision but he singlehandedly lost me as a consumer.
>>109070758This is an INTC baggie shill thread.They don’t actually know hardware.
>>109071186Yeah we're all sure the 2CU afterthought really mattered to your build
>>1090712051st of all, in all real usecases in real live a NPU is a waste of sand2nd of all, NPS are even malvare as they are only used to fuck you over3rd of all, mini PCs can use the iGPU to play the good old 20 years old games at 60 fps or even 120 fps 4th of all, unless that npu is free or it makes the cpu cost go down, i am not paying for it.
>>109071260Sure a small NPU which only exists because Microsoft probably paid AMD isn't actually useful. However its also gated off and not drawing power either. Nobody is buying miniPCs with mainstream Ryzen CPUs instead of the monolithic APUs. You stupid faggots just imagine insanely niche scenarios and then pretend like it matters to the average consumer. It doesn't. You are heavily retarded and autistic. Nobody cares about your sperg gripes.
>>109071295so you are telling me that there is some shit on my CPU that is not even used? why is there some shit on my CPU?
>>109071314Every processor made in the last 20 years has had some IP blocks you likely didn't commonly or ever make use of
>>109071320honestly NPUs seem to be one of the worst waste of sand. like i can understand the Israel spyware part block of the CPU - i get it , Hitler lost, this is the price, but now you are also building a NPU next to it, like come on , now my man - Hitler lost once, if you are going to use this to just slap more and more blocks of wasted sand on my CPU, soon i will have to use a 10 years old CPU forever. not that this is a problem.
Desktop CPU Q1 2027Who cares, that's far in the future.
>>109069145>backup gpuI'd rather not waste die space all of the time for a hypothetical outcome when I already have a cheapo "backup" GPU in the closet
Listen here what I will tell you to all you the NPU supporters:20 years ago I accepted the JPU block on my CPU because of 9/11 - was a tragedy I could not dance with the long noses on the roofs that day, but the JPU block is needed for national security. ok. I get that. But tell me why should I accept the NPU now? has any plane recently collided with some building? was there a roof party i missed?unless you are telling me that the NPU is a matter of naitonal security, I am waiting on the glorious chinese state to make good usuable CPUs with a small CPU block inside of them, next to the big , huge CPU block. I value the state security of China and I will get my CPUs from there on now. I will only miss the roof parties in China - not much dancing going on there.
>>109071490they are talking about another kind of a NPU...
>>109071490I cannot disagree with those canons
>>109070391Hardware accelerator for rap music
>>109069060Most retarded decision I've seen AMD make since they withheld the sale of RDNA4 GPUs earlier this year despite retailers literally having them already in stock for months just to see what Nvidia was gonna do. Most non-gaming big box & office pcs run on iGPUs, they WILL switch their entire IT dept. orders to Intel if the cost of replacement hardware with AMD necessitates the added cost and power of a dGPU plus it's liability of extra downtime if it goes on the fritz. Your Dell/HP home system will do the same if the already small margin from being squeezed by storage/RAM is further eaten into by graphics. What utter fucking morons are running this company?
>>109069060I doubt this is the case. The whole reason iGPU exists on CPU SKUs is for OEM/ISVs not for DIY users. NPU is more of a niche then GPU. Leave it on dedicated ICs.
>>109072255I am a DIY user and I use the igpu on my zen5. It's really shit and I'd like it to be better than it is, but regardless I'm using it.
>>109071490Who wouldn't want to turn that into a sex slave
>>109072255I checked the article again. I'm guessing the guy is a reliable source, but this time he is confirming it. He first mentioned this back in april.
AM4 chads STAND THE FUCK UP!
my ampere gpu is dumb in idle wattage that if I have 2 monitors connected its gonna take 100wif I plub my 2nd monitor in the igpu that allows it to sometimes idle at 50wI wouldnt care about npu, my gpu does similar workloads 100x faster, and I want igpu for dgpu related problems.
