Anybody else have a custom container that combines std::deque and std::set? I have one in my Minecraft clone because marking a mesh dirty means marking it’s neighbors dirty so to avoid putting a chunk in the meshing queue multiple times I involve a set.

>>109076297
>OotSS runs worse than most UE5 asset flips
It's over enginebros

>>109076959
Hey, don't be rude to engine devs by comparing them with pajeet-wrangler jblow. He doesn't even write the game or compiler or anything himself, he offshores to india because he doesn't have the skills.

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If Jonathan Blow's primary reason for making Jai was the long compilation times of C++... he could've just used C and compiled with Tiny C Compiler for the debug builds. It compiles C89 source code at a small fraction of the time as GCC with -O0 flag. Then this game would've been out several years earlier.

Also there's already a pretty good sokoban game out called A Monster's Expedition, and it can run on Switch 1 and old PCs:
https://www.monsterexpedition.com/

>>109077254
There was no reason to make Jai given what he makes. He’s just nodeving with extra steps.

>>109077085
Where would he even find a pajeet that can work on a compiler?
>>109077254
Shitposting aside I do use Jai and it's great, compile times are a nice bonus but it's the metaprogramming that really seals the deal.

>>109077270
there's plenty of competent jeets. there's 1.5B of them, so it's only a matter of statistics and a good recruitment process. I've worked with a few who were actually great.
and no, brown hands did not write this post.

>>109077270
>Where would he even find a pajeet that can work on a compiler?
In India, obviously.
Also I don't think you realize I am not joking about this part. I am slightly exaggerating (he hires a mix of outsourced pajeet labor and of local contractors who are really no better because his work conditions are dogshit according to insiders, and the pay is ass), but that really is what he does when he 'makes' his games and jai, too.
Jon is a moron and a true nodev, but his high-level strategy (ideate, then hire people when you're ready to actually do the thing and you think it really has a market) is actually quite clever. It's just that he's quite bad at executing this strategy.

>>109077254
>https://www.monsterexpedition.com/
That looks pretty cheap and generic compared to ootss.

>>109076772
honestly, I can't think of a situation that requires a container with both
>FIFO insert/delete
>can only contain unique elements
instead of reaching for a specialized (and probably complicated) container, I'd pick one of these containers and work from there.
e.g. stick a bit flag onto each chunk that indicates whether it's in the meshing queue and don't push it into the queue if it's already marked, no need for a container with a "fast" contains check.
and even assuming that it's not possible for whatever reason, I still wonder whether you really need the FIFO behavior of std::deque. you're doing this to avoid duplicating work, so probably collecting changes within a frame and then meshing the enqueued chunks once you've gone through all the changes - you're not going to be enqueueing and dequeueing chunks concurrently because then you could end up meshing the same chunk multiple times. does it matter that the chunks get meshed in the same order that they were pushed into the queue? you could get away with using std::set/unordered_set by itself.

>>109076297
Odor of the stinking sar

Do you guys do your own UI or use some kind of UI library? I have manually implemented some just as immediate mode stuff and it seems to be working fine but I'm curious if there is some need of using an actual library that I'm missing. im a webshit so i am pretty comfortable actually designing and laying uis out.

>>109076772
ask me how i know you are vibe coding your project.

>>109076772
why not just use an unordered_set and a deque at the same time, wrap it in a class

>>109077257
>nodeving with extra steps
With is the perfect amount of steps to nodev?

>>109077489
I haven't got to it yet but I was going to just do it myself. There are some GUI libraries for SDL but they don't seem to be actively maintained.

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Porting to android might be a bigger pain in the ass than I initially hoped. Still gonna try though.

>>109077974
Don't do it yourself. Pay an agency for this. It's not worth the trouble you'll put yourself into.

>>109077974
Android is a fucking nightmare. The worst platform I had to deal with so far (and I already ported to Windows, Linux and wasm). I imagine iOS would be equally bad, but I don't intend to bother with it.

>>109077319
I read shit like this and wonder if you trash are even real.
>Jon is a moron and a true nodev
Who the fuck even are you? You are either a bot or an npc with dunning kruger.

>>109077319
>>109078309
>guy released two very successful games
>nodev
kek

>>109076297
It's literally a Sokoban game with 2010esque tier graphics and it doesn't run on my machine.
Blow exposed himself, bitch

>>109078090
>pay an agency
>for a gpl3 hobby project
lol wut. It can't be that hard.

>>109078237
Will do wasm too, I thought it would be harder than android but I've already done the major part of the prework necessary for wasm which was converting to state machine/callbacks from the dos style nested while(1)s.

I just didn't realize quite how fiddly android os can be for native apps and assumed using SDL3 would make it mostly a gimme apart from some phone-specific control methods. It's definitely still doable, just might be like a week long project rather than "apk in repo tomorrow via vibeslopped ci/cd update" kinda thing.

How does one indie gamedev generate so much asspain?

>>109078309
>>109078315
Paying someone to make your game is not development, jon.

>>109078591
Sorry, didn't realize you were keeping it gpl3 and hobby level. Then I would strongly recommend to simply not try to port it at all. It really is far too much trouble. I mean you seem to be enjoying learning the process so knock yourself out and all, but it's best to let the community do it in this case.

>>109078666
Or alternatively since you're already doing wasm, just shove it in a webview (or react native or something) and call it a day.

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Any knows good in detail car physics resources? I've found lots of stuff for simple cars but nothing that goes into the nitty gritty details for more elaborate setups.

>>109078591
It is definitely doable, and not even very hard. Just super tedious and time consuming. wasm is pretty easy in comparison.

>>109078931
Yes, you put it much clearer than I did but that's also what I was getting at.

how much izzat did Jon lose by releasing a puzzle game that can't maintain a stable 60 FPS

>>109078992
>left developer features on in a release demo
he gained izzat if anything, a proper pajeet

>>109078863
If you have the basics down I wager it's a matter of tuning constants now.
Eg.
Tire A has a softness of 10 -> 90% efficiency
Tire B has a softness of 15 -> 85% efficiency

Asphalt material has a traction of 5 (If softness>traction no skid) but gravel has a traction of 8-12(randomly)...

>>109077974
Love it.
Kinda makes me want to revisit my old idea of making a racing game with pre-war cars.

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>>109079095
>UE6 will include an entirely new gameplay framework known collectively as Scene Graph
Uh okay
>Verse runs on a single thread and calls C++ code built via a custom LLVM compiler that automatically transactionalizes the C++ code.
I’m confused. Is this the official Verse compiler or is this more of that frankensteins std lib UE has?

>>109079124
tim sweeney has gone off the deep end

>>109078331
Graphics are pretty, but not that pretty - honestly have no idea how do you make it perform so badly and require so much hardware.
There's barely anything on the screen due to top-down camera.
It would almost take deliberate effort to make it run badly.

>>109079430
It's all the volumetric effects.

>>109079455
Then it sounds like lack of testing on anything but his own (overpowered) dev machine.

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>spent years learning art, engine dev and programming
>finally build ideal engine
>it's everything I wanted
>everything is possible now with this skillset
>time to make gameplay mechanics
>implement features I was dreaming of
>it's not as fun as i thought
>quickly realise what makes games fun isn't what i imagined
>programming and art is like 30% of what's required
>could have prototyped in flash or pygame and gotten it out of my system

>>109079546
Just have AI use your engine to build the game for you

What do you do when you want to use a language keyword like "class" or "function" as a variable or type name

>>109079649
klass, func/fun/fn. Pretty standard in languages where this is an issue actually.

>>109079675
>klass
havent seen this before

>>109079546
programming is an irrelevant skill for gamedev
art and music are 98% of a successful game
the other 2% is marketing

>>109079694
Yes, this is correct. Sucks, too, since the programming part of games is both the part that's the most fun, and the one that has the most potential to create a game that is truly memorable. Sadly, this, too, is irrelevant to a game's success in practice.

>>109079694
I can art, I think what's going to happen is it turns out marketing is 60%, art and gameplay 30% and mine precious engin 10%

>>109079694
>>109079713
>programming is an irrelevant skill for gamedev
this almost entirely depends on the game tho. Some have more mechanical depth which means a lot of coding, others have almost none.

>>109079769
>marketing is 60%, art and gameplay 30%
you don't have the money or brand name to market a turd
you can shill all you want but if the graphics and music are bad nobody will give it a click

>>109079798
this
marketing budget is only relevant if you're AAA

>>109079694
>>109079713
If you can't art 98% of successful gamedev is art. If you can't do programming, 88% of successful gamedev is programming. Minecraft is the most successful indie game ever and has extremely basic art. Games like Lethal Company have programmer art tier stuff.

You just want an excuse to give up.

>>109079806
>>109079798
marketing as in, build in public, gather a community discord from the early days, stem wishlysts etc

>>109079818
this is also part of it, devaluing skills you have because it's been demystified

>>109079818
>has extremely basic art
"basic" is irrelvant
it has a unique and distinctive aesthetic that appeals to its audience and has inspired a billion stylistic clones
whether you like it or not, in terms of commercial success it has "good art"

>>109079694
what makes a successful game is completely dependent on its genre
A successfull hentai rpg will need good art. A successful voxel sandbox will need good coding.

>>109079883
Protip: minecraft always had bottom of the barrel garbage-tier code.

>>109079856
>a unique and distinctive aesthetic that appeals to its audience
No, it didn't, because I was there when Notch was still posting on 4chan about his 3D Dwarf Fortress clone. Minecraft took off because it was a new concept and was an actual game that was being developed unlike Infiniminer. Minecraft doesn't have good art, it only started having what you define as "good art" because it became extremely successful. There were many other games with blocky art before and during the early days of Minecraft yet nobody looks at them and says "good, distinctive art".

It doesn't matter anyway, the fact remains MC is low effort precisely because Notch was not an artist, so for your retarded argument it being good or not doesn't matter, in fact it shows you can make good art without being a good artist or an artist at all.

You just want a reason to give up on your game, so how about you just use "I'm a procrastinating defeatist faggot who isn't ever going to make anything of note anyway" instead of spouting bullshit?

>>109079883
tbqh i only play hentai rpgs for plot, otherwise i'd just watch porn

>>109079915
what was wrong with infiniminer, what do you mean it wasn't an actual game?

>>109079930
have you played it?

>>109079915
tl;dr
minecraft has good graphics by every definition that matters
link's awakening on the gameboy has good graphics that would easily carry a modern indie game
"basic" is irrelevant and the fact that you're caught up on photorealism is why you will continue to have bad graphics

>>109079930
It was barebones and people wanted a freeform/open world mode, but dev (who later went on to make Zachtronics by the way) abandoned development since he couldn't monetize it to keep development going (the code got leaked/decomped/whatever early on).
>>109079943
Ok so by your definition, you don't need to have art skills to make "good graphics by every definition that matters". So what's your point? Then you don't need art skills, so why are you whining about needing art skills?

>>109079933
never

>>109079943
>minecraft has good graphics by every definition that matters
No it doesn't it's got fucking shit graphics
What am I reading

>>109079965
>What am I reading
massive cope from someone who wants to find an excuse to procrastinate

>>109079957
>Zachtronics
oh wow I love his games, not surprised he came up with it. what an unfortunate fumble.

>>109079965
post your art style that has inspired millions of clones and warehouses full of merch

>>109080030
the art style didn't inspire millions of clones and warehouses full of merch, the game did
the art style is trash

>>109080030
you're mixing up cause and effect. minecraft art style got popular because the game got popular, not the opposite. nobody started playing that shit for art during its early years i can say that for sure

>>109079965
Never let basic logic or even the fundamental laws of causality stop you from sabotaging yourself.

>>109080058
lol

>>109078659
He literally develops the game live on stream, what the fuck are you talking about? of course he hires others as well, every game studio does that

>>109079649
`Noun_Class` for type
or
`the_class` for variable

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>>109077974
lets fucking go

>>109079546
my engine isn't even particularly good, but other than that that's literally me. coding actual games is a boring grind.

>>109080148
damn, that was fast. good job.

https://github.com/shader-slang/slang
this shit looks vibecoded, should I just stick with glsl?

>>109079649
For class I use a synonym(group, category, partition, etc.) Depends.

>>109080201
>vibecoded
You're fucking retarded.

>>109080177
still a bunch of stuff to do but hey, we rollin. maybe I'll have this done by the end of the week after all

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>>109080201
dropped

>>109080244
to me the most annoying thing about Android is that they can destroy your render context at any time for any reason. call incoming? your context is gone, m8. reload all your shit and make sure nothing shits itself. a horrible platform.

>>109080248
kino
>still using deprecatedGL
lmao

>>109080264
kek, that may explain why it crashes sometimes once you start a race

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>>109080148

>>109080345
cool, new profile pic

if your goal is money then you should be cranking out a low effort mobile slop app a day instead of playing the lottery with desktop games

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>told claude to copy unity's particle system 1:1 into my engine
>it worked
I love AI

>>109080201
slang is probably the best shader language for supporting webgpu and metal, but you need to implement all the backends manually just like if you had a separate shader for every backend.
if you only care about directx11/12 and vulkan, you can use NVRHI, it uses hlsl but it can be compiled to spirv for vulkan. I heard that in the future directx 12 might support spirv (but I don't know if NVRHI will support it).
But NVRHI doesn't support mobile out of the box, which means VR probably won't be possible on meta headsets (meta PCVR is still possible, and steam frame uses linux, not android).
And Metal is not supported, so you rely on compatibility layers.
>why use directX, why not just use vulkan
Maybe one backend is just faster / less buggy, I have not checked. I would just switch between vulkan / directx, and just pick whatever runs faster / smoothest, and let the user override the backend.
webgl is probably the easiest minimalist way of getting a game running on the web while still having native tools.
webgpu does not have native tools such as renderdoc/nvidia nsight/etc, you can only debug it through whatever it's compiled into like vulkan, which is fine, there might be tools that I'm not aware about, but last time I checked there isn't much support. But webgpu sounds like a great graphics API for something written in JS or Rust.

>>109079957
Notch has good art skills and you need good art skills to make good graphics. Art skills aren't about making realistic textures or painted landscapes.

>>109080122
Have you actually watched the streams? Develop is a massive stretch. And no, other indie studios don't hire people to make the whole game. Furthermore, other indie studioes don't pretend to be solo devs when it's convenient.

>>109082063
>Notch has good art skills
No he doesn't

>>109082069
notch is an artist first, and a developer long long after

>>109082083
No he's not, he's a programmer first

>>109082086
no watch his twitter it's primarily art

>>109082111
His Twitter is him programming voxel shit, he's not an artist, what an ignorant thing to say

What is the White Man's game engine?

>>109082118
check it again

>>109082125
white men mod quake engine

>>109082125
C

>>109082130
He's got some screenshots of his game, it has art in it, has has hired artists, he didnt make it himself

>>109082136
>checks twitter
>it's full of art

>>109082139
Post a single tweet with art that Notch created

>>109079895
Yeah, imagine if it had good fucking code, it'd be a monstrous game, it would be the DOOM of sandbox games.
But it's not essential for success. Heck even Nintendo has some pretty shoddy coding in it's main titles here and there.

>>109082125
The one you made yourself.

>>109082086
>>109082069
You are so painfully clueless yet so sure of yourself. Just like all the other zoomzooms. Which retarded infl*encer told you to parrot these lines?

>>109082125
Urho3d before defacement

>>109082196
Nobody I just have a basic familiarity with Notch

>obligatory elevator scene

>>109082178
>But it's not essential for success.
That's the most important part. He's not at all unique in this either, some of the biggest successes have had the worst code ever.
But Minecraft's success was largely due to an innovative business model, NOT because the game was particularly new or good, especially early on. When the game made enough money, Notch just hired a team to do the work for him while he was on constant vacations as well. Jeb mostly fixed and ran the game as (You) know it.
Notch's business innovation is too often dismissed, too. He pioneered the early access model and exquisitely generated FOMO via shilling and early 4chan access, plus a scheme on the early access system where he promised to increase prices as the game develops while giving out the source code if he ever leaves the project (he broke the contract, and it's a miracle he never got sued for this).
But game dev wise it was never a particularly good sandbox compared to other options. It was just one more in the sea that befitted from trend following at the right place right time.

>>109082202
You weren't even born when minecraft first dropped lmao
Which infl*encer told you that you were familiar with notch at all?

>>109082213
Minecraft's success is 100% because of the game idea, anyone suggesting otherwise is a fucking idiot

>>109082215
I was born in 1985

>>109082218
It's OK to be totally clueless, timmy, you don't have to post and make everyone else aware of your retardation.

>>109082226
A "good business model" does not make any random indie game generate billions of dollars
It was successful because it was an adventure game where you could build the world out of blocks
That's literally it, that's the entire reason

>>109082227
It wasn't an adventure game until quite a while after it was revealed and already mid-success, but you'd know that if you weren't 12. Just like you'd know about all the other building games that existed before including the adventure-centric ones.

>>109082237
It was an adventure game very early in development, by that I mean you were a character in the world and there were tools and weapons and enemies. There were games where you could build shit obviously, but this was the first real game where you were a character in the world, the entire world was made out of blocks and you could build it as you please

>>109082243
>I was just pretending to be retarded
OK retard

>>109082245
No I wasn't pretending to be retarded

>>109077319
>according to insiders
The only one i've known to whine about ze work conditions is the guy who was kicked out of the adjacent programming spheres, wholly unrelated to Blow, by trying to turn a convention about programming into one about leftist identity politics while grifting money for it.

>>109076297
so how is jb's game? I am getting tired of odin and want to move on to jai.

>>109079546
>>time to make gameplay mechanics
>>implement features I was dreaming of
>>it's not as fun as i thought
so what is it

>>109082262
One of his employees in particular did a livestream with proof he used to work at thekla inc. and described how it went. Unfortunately I can't find it offhand. I'll see if I can though. Some others claiming to have worked at thekla chimed in to confirm in comments.

>>109082274
It's pretty shitty. Runs like the latest AAA slop while looking like a game from 20 years ago. Boring gameplay. You can checkout the demo yourself.

Real video games don't need engines.

>>109082284
this statement is so profoundly retarded that I can't see you as anything more than a visitor unworthy of even being educated on the meaning of words

>>109082125
probably all of them were made primarily by white people but most are targeted for 89iq zogbots

>>109082279
If it's the guy whose last name is Coimbre, I forget his first name, then that's the guy who was basically asked to leave for trying to turn the handmade stuff into a basic bitch politics grift even including guests attacking handmade hero and the programming views that was the reason people got together in the first place.
So if it's him I wouldn't take it as anything more than bluesky bitching. Pretty sure he got kicked out of Cyan later too to "focus on his personal convention".
In hindsight with the Cyan comment in mind I suspect one of Blow's clipped rants I saw on youtube about covid remote employees avoiding work and lying about having a second job on the side was a reference to him.

my god why have they turned wgpu-native into this retarded async mess of callbacks it used to be fine but now everything requires a callback+flag

>>109079649
For ESLs: use your first language (solo projects only)

>>109077299
>brown hands did not write this post
good one rajesh

>>109077299
if they were competent then they would make their own microsoft instead of working for slave wages doing menial tasks at microsoft waiting to get deported

>>109082283
sounds like just about every single JB game to me. I am not going to bother installing, but why is the frame rate so sluggish in the videos? is it frame-locked or does it actually stress the hardware?

>>109082636
he forgot to remove the logs on the release build

>dude retro games were superior to modern ones!
>*play some nes games*
>they all break down to spamming one op move, usually some form of jump kick, and enemies repeating some obvious pattern that's trivial to exploit
???

>>109082658
>some obvious pattern that's trivial to exploit
That's widely by design, it's supposed to be fun to identify and exploit these patterns. We've had fully working superhuman RL-based AI bots for ages but no game ever used this technology because of this.

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>>109082656
really? oh boy. he recorded some gameplay videos with that build. he is either blind or just doesn't give a fuck anymore. he looks tired.

>>109082658
98% of all retro shilling is caused by nostalgia. newfags really shouldn't bother.

>>109082658
>game lets you kick and punch
>they're exactly the same except kick has a longer range

>>109082717
he is running out of money, he took a publisher deal but looking at the demo steam chart they won't be fitting the bill for very long

>>109082658
>retro turn based jrpg classic
>the only things you can do in combat are attack and defend for several hours and each combat starts and ends with a 30 second transition

>>109082243
>It was an adventure game very early in development
Actually the word "Adventure" implies a genre that is very different from what Minecraft is. It's a genre that doesn't even involve traditional combat.

>>109083965
>defending in your typical retro jrpg
lolwut
usually they turn into spam basic attack or spam aoe magic, defend is virtually never utilized meaningfully in any of the mainstream titles

>>109084325
I never said it was utilized just that it is one of your two options

>>109082658
>dude retro games were superior to modern ones!
This is only true for PC games because the developers and target audience were 2 IQ standard deviations higher than today. You can just play Homeworld 1 and 3 and see the difference. Mostly this was due to writing though, especially when it came to first or third person games the gameplay was still very primitive and even indies today have much better first person gameplay than something like Morrowind.

Console games? Absolutely not, that's just something parroted by the 35 year old fat balding manchild who has never played something that wasn't a kid's game (usually he's a Nintendofag). Nobody in his right mind would say SNES games were better than what we have today. There are some exceptions (e.g. look at the original FF7 vs the awful remake) of course.

>>109082658
What NES games let you jump kick?

>>109082658
Yeah on an emulator with your combined effective 100ms input latency button mashing games are gonna feel lifeless compared to the zero input lag with real hardware on a CRT.

>>109085080
river city ransom, double dragon, tmnt, and so on

>>109080201
>>109081167
*Huh slang has automatic differation. I'm guessing this means that maybe we can use trig functions and it will magically optimize it out, and you can calculate a SDF normal in one magical function instead of shooting 4 rays? I actually don't know yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUE-RIOwQKI
I was thinking about making a shader that make a water ripple using a SDF probably using this as a noise reference:
https://www.shadertoy.com/view/lsXGzH
And using slang maybe I can optimize away to 4 rays that would need to be sent to calculate the normal (or not, the person who made this shadertoy probably would have already derived it if they could?).
slang doesn't support opengl, but you can compile to spirv and then use spirv-cross to compile to opengl-compatible glsl (and webgl). I think, I wouldn't be surprised if it would fail for even the most simple "slang automatic differation" example for whatever reason.

>>109085259
* I found a ocean sdf example on slang-playground (web) that uses the automatic differation, BUT it's a compute shader... So it fails to compile in spirv-cross --es --version 300 (for webgl / shadertoy).
I'm sure that it's still possible to translate the code into a fragment shader, but I was kind of hoping I could copy paste the spirv cross generated glsl code and check what type of error I would get if I tried to run it.

>>109085999
you mean this? https://www.shadertoy.com/view/MdXyzX

>>109076297
>pic
I was under the impression this was a shitty /gedg/ game that anon polished the ui turd too much while making a shitty mirror puzzle sloppa. This is the actual game that took 10 years to finish by the eceleb that /g/ sucks off every single fucking day?

>>109086108
he needed to save computing with his new language first. next game will be made on silicon he personally mined in his backyard.

>>109076297
THIS GAME MAXES MY GPU AT 120FPS 1080P WHAT A JOKE
BLOW MASTURBATED TO HIS SKILL FOR 10 YEARS FOR THIS?????

>>109085139
Yeah belt-scrolling beat'em ups are a primitive genre to begin with and they are especially limited on the NES. River City Ransom is an outlier. Double Dragon is a NES version of an Arcade Game during an era when Arcade cabinets were still vastly superior to home consoles. Ditto with the TMNT ports. If those are the only games you play, you shouldn't be surprised if they have similar mechanics. Also, retro enthusiasts tend to like the arcade beat 'em ups (Final Fight) or at the very least, 16-bit console games like Streets of Rage.

If you want an actual selection of decent NES games, look at the games that were designed for the console around its strengths and weaknesses

Super Mario Brothers (all of them)
Legend of Zelda
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out
Contra
Mega Man
Castlevania
Kirby's Adventure

>Nobody in his right mind would say SNES games were better than what we have today.
Yeah like what? People who love 3D walking simulators and cutscene games always say this but I hate most of those games. I'm also not a fan of FPS so none of the most popular games hold any appeal at all.

I've never found a game that was "Legend of Zelda (NES)" but better. The closest I've ever seen is Binding of Isaac (which is a roguelite and doesn't have the same overworld adventure emphasis that LoZ has). Most games that want to try cloning 2D Zelda start from ALTTP or one of the handheld games. I've asked for recommendations before and while there have been some decent games, none of them actually have the qualities I'm looking for. Nobody ever starts by designing a simple, single-screen top-down 2D combat engine like LoZ and then assembling a whole adventure using those single-screen challenges as the building block.

Shovel Knight was great, but that was self-consciously retro. Celeste is great if you don't mind the tranny themes. Hollow Knight? I'd rather play SOTN. Modern RPGs are all blabby with shitty writing.

>>109086437
>I've never found a game that was "Legend of Zelda (NES)" but better.
im sure theres literally thousands of them on steam

why is this a thing when there's already agdg on /vg/ and /g/ has been historically not the place to talk about video games
fucking jeets can't use the search function man

>>109086458
agdg is shit

>>109086353
Muratori Sir, ICON of Jai, was not available to work on it.

>>109086108
No you weren't. You know exactly what it is and only came into this thread to shitpost about it.

>>109086469
why not start a new general on vg instead of starting your gayming encampment here

>>109086458
This one starts with a g

>>109086523
programming is /gl/ related, cry some more

>>109079687
he also did a remix of infinity

>>109086451
It should be easy for you to find one and prove it.
Remember, LoZ but better.
Not a hack or mod of the original.
Not a Zelda Classic quest file.
Not a generic top-down ARPG.
Actually good, like th eoriginal.

Mega Man 2 ==> Mega Man 9
Duck Tales ==> Shovel Knight
Legend of Zelda ==> ???

>>109086556
>It should be easy for you to find one and prove it.
Not really I don't play console retroslop

>>109086504
First time I saw it when the thread went up I honestly didn't. I rarely come to this thread or follow random ecelebs. I only see these celebs on /g/ tbqhdesi.

>>109082125
unreal engine 3

>>109086086
Nice, that's something to compare with.
Offsetting iTime/time by 1 million seconds in getwaves creates a different result between slang playground and shadertoy.
shadertoy seems to start breaking earlier at around 100,000 seconds which is 27 hours, but the comments in shadertoy mention this is a nvidia specific issue with trig functions, and I bet there is a high IQ solution to remove the sine function somewhere.
My assumption that automatic differation gets rid of trig functions is wrong (that would have been easy to check by just reading the slang output shader)

>>109086620
nigga just fmod the sin function's input over 2Pi (and offset to -Pi if you're a civilized person)
Of course some black magic silicon meant for inputs (-Pi ... +Pi) is gonna balk at 100k

REEEE mathlets in my engine dev thread

>>109076297
anyone who watch his streams, does john use a ECS in his game?

>>109086696
no

>>109086698
no wonder it has such shit performance

>>109086705
Yeah that's right, even though this looks like a game from 20 years ago and nobody used ECS until 10 years ago and computers continually get more powerful, we need to use ECS to hit a stable 60 FPS

>>109086719
i just found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWC9RT5u8gQ
apparently he just uses fat structs, and oddly with one level (odd restriction if you're going to do it anyway if you ask me) of inheritance, so he doesn't even get the advantage of fixed sizes and probably doesn't allocate them continuously (entities are probably scattered across the heap like some first time gamedev pleb).

Isn't this guy supposed to be some super-genius coder?

>>109086752
If you weren't a shit programmer you'd know that it literally doesn't matter what entity layout you use

>>109086757
ironic

>>109086759
what's ironic? what difference does it make?

>>109086769
its ironic because his game literally struggles to keep 60 fps at full resolution on mid tier systems.

>what difference does it make?
a significant difference

>>109086780
It doesn't make a significant difference at all. Stuff like that only matters for strategy games where you have tens of thousands of objects. How you lay out your game entities in memory makes no difference at all to a regular game, especially a puzzle game

>>109086757
not anon, but it wouldn't matter for a single player game, but it would matter quite a bit if it was a multiplayer game that isn't lockstep (many games are able to use a hybrid lockstep system system).
Also before you argue about CPU optimizations, can we see the CPU / GPU utilization of the blow game?
If it's GPU bottlenecked, it's not a question about his entity code, buy a new GPU or show a screenshot of a GPU profiler.
if it's CPU bottlenecked, well then we can talk about CPU optimizations, and I just wasted your time :)

>>109086797
single or multiplayer makes no difference, all that matters is the amount of entities you need to process
there's no excuse for jon's game performing like shit

>>109086789
eh kind of true actually im being pedantic

>>109086803
read the second part of my post, I already know entity data always matters for networking. But in 90% of situations, it doesn't matter.
I don't even know what blows game is, but it doesn't look like dwarf fortress or rimworld, AKA shit that simulates a lot of stuff.
I'm assuming this is a GPU limited game, and whoever is complaining is a poorfag that pirated the game with bad GPU, while blow might own a 5090 so he doesn't even know his game might be a tiny bit slow on other GPU's.
I have not seen the game up close, but the game does not look graphically intensive, and top-down games tend to be pretty easy on GPU's, but I still think it's easier to fuck up GPU code by going OOP with rendering than with going OOP with entities (and yes, you can use OOP for entities while making your rendering somewhat data oriented, it just requires good planning and learning your GPU internals a bit)

>>109086877
>I still think it's easier to fuck up GPU code by going OOP with rendering
you cant do OOP in shaders

>>109086559
This is the game engine thread and a NES Zelda clone ought to be an easy engine to build.

>>109086886
It's possible, it's just really difficult.

class Entity{
public:
virtual void Render(/*Renderer here?*/) = 0;
}
class Quad: public entity{
  Vertex buffer_data[6];
public:
 void Render();
}
for(Entities* e)
{
  e->Render();
}

Just check which shader you are currently using and just switch it (actually, I think deferred rendering allows you to draw opaque shaders out of order, but I have never used deferred rendering)

>>109086877
I have a 1080 from 10 years ago and the demo runs fine

>>109086912
it wouldnt even require an engine

>>109085100
>emulator with your combined effective 100ms input latency
Anon, this isn't 2004 anymore. Emulators actually have less latency than real hardware these days.

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>>109086752
>>109086877
It's CPU limited, my CPU hits barely 2% when idle in game. So on the Jai side, it's very well optimized. It also boots up quickly and loadtimes are very fast.

The issue is GPU side. Most likely it's the copious use of volumetrics combined with some debug stuff being left on and not having had the final optimization pass.

>>109087063
Don't engage the CRTrannies.

>>109087085
>final optimization pass.
theres no sane reason a top-down puzzle game should ever need an "optimization pass"

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>>109087096
Shader computations don't become cheaper just because the camera is angled differently.

>>109087106
a top-down camera means there's way less things to draw so yes rendering does become cheaper

>>109087122
That purely depends on the scene. As you can see in the pic I posted, that scene has a lot more going for it than many games, and a lot of volumetrics.

>>109087127
>hat scene has a lot more going for it than many games
no it doesn't. there's barely anything in that scene

>>109087132
Just at a quick glance you can see that almost half the screen (or more) is covered in lit volumetrics (clouds).

Do you even know how shaders work? It should be instantly clear by looking at that image that it will be quite computationally expensive. Especially if you've ever seen any videos of the game you'll know all that stuff is dynamic when playing, not static.

>>109087142
The game has shit performance on maps that aren't filled with clouds

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I'm taking the step to vibe code. Wish me luck

>>109087127
you can't be serious nigger

>>109087245
He clearly is, and you clearly can't even handle simple 3-dimensional reasoning. 3D is 3D no matter which direction you are facing.

It's really incredible how many idiots have crawled out of the wordwork to shit on this game.

>>109087147
Performs fine for me

>>109079694
>programming is an irrelevant skill for gamedev
I can tell the scope of your gamedev is dragging and dropping an asset on to a 3d environment

>>109087366
Top-down games are easier to render because the distance between the camera and the field of play is fixed. You don't see things up close to the camera, and you rarely see things far away from the camera. There's far less detail to account for
This game having poor performance is inexcusable, and embarassing for Jon Blow who spend decades waffling on about how everything was slow. If this game was made in Unity it'd run fine

>>109087401
https://www.shadertoy.com/view/ll3SWl
detail: low (literally one quad)
distance to camera: fixed
GPU: melting
stuff you mentioned doesn't matter for performance

>>109087642
Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you just fucking retared

>>109087646
you just don't know what you're talking about

>>109087653
I'm not talking about rendering volumetric clouds which you seem to be fixated on
Fixed camera distance = less objects to draw, those objects have less detail (less submeshes, less polygons, less complex shaders), less lights
If your top down game has performance problems you fucked up massively

>>109087398
Anon, implementing any game mechanic you want is scripting tier work that takes no special knowledge or skill and most of the time can just be copy/pasted from somewhere else with minimal modification or even AI generated. Nobody sees your code, they don't know or care how ugly it is.

Art assets on the other hand are shoved directly into the player's face.

>>109087895
>Anon, implementing any game mechanic you want is scripting tier work that takes no special knowledge or skill and most of the time can just be copy/pasted from somewhere else with minimal modification or even AI generated.
wrong

>>109087895
>game mechanic
Not dodging the drag and drop accusations there with that. How about actual systems? I am MMO dev with a fully mutable map so I have the need for chunked observers with backfill, spatial hashing, message queues, backpressure, update coalescing, and dozens of other blah blah that you would fail to implement relying on LLMs without knowing how to program at all.

>he's so mad that scripting is the easy part
I can only imagine this stems from being bad at everything and seeing scripting as the only thing you can pretend to be good at (because everyone with an IQ above 70 can do it).

>>109088162
if all you can do is copy and paste code all you can make are basic action games in Unity

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>watching gameplay from indie horror game
>seems to be set in the 80s
>"my dad is texting me"
do zoomers really...?

Until this 1 year old bug is patched the skids should lower their tone https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/769

>>109088162
Scripting itself isn't hard, technically. The game design part is hard. And while neither programming or art is a strong predictor of game design, between the two it seems like artists are generally worse at it, winding up with super bland and generic gameplay that is nothing more than a vehicle for their art and dumb story ideas. Whether it's because they're intimidated by scripting or just not into hard details I couldn't tell you.

>>109088188
Not even a zoomer thing, even boomers have forgotten life before smartphones.

>>109087642
>detail: low (literally one quad)
m8 the number of triangles is irrelevant, it's about the number of pixels and the complexity of the shader

>>109087127
My PC runs Marathon at 4k 60 fps. It can’t handle Stinking Star at 1080p. Kneel to your AAA gods, indieshit enginedevs!

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>>109088411
>Marathon
Opinion discarded.

>>109088418
It’s a boring game, but it runs well and has nice atmospheric effects.

Blowjobbers are so funny. "Noooo it's impossible that blowjob's games perform poorly he's a genius noooooo" when his previous names were highly noted for garbage performance as well.

>>109088383
This is /gedg/, you should at minimum understand the very basics of how shaders work before opining. You always have the option of not saying anything so people don't know you're retarded next time.

>>109088946
fix your game jon

>>109088946
jesus christ your retarded
>bro it's 1 triangle that means you can do whatever you want in the shader and it's free!!!
you need to go back to your containment thread

>>109089075
>bro it's 23843289492834 triangle that means you can do whatever you want in the shader and it's free!!!
is what you said, inbred.

>>109088938
This is like how women write lol

mobile phone video game where you have to buy cash shop items for your half-minotaur half-vampire bf who respects you despite you being a woman and has a 27'' horse penis

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I know you didn't ask, but I don't care. SFX has been a solved issue for a long time now:
https://sonniss.com/gameaudiogdc/
https://itch.io/game-assets/free/tag-royalty-free/tag-sound-effects

>>109079124
Scene graph refers to a node tree. For example Maya has used scene graph since its inception in 1998 or whatever.
I'm sure that UE6 will still be as bad as any other UE. It's just more flexible because your game itself is more like a dynamic scene file and everything is a node.

>>109088383
that was my point. camera being at fixed distance and "detail" doesn't mean anything. it boils down to pixel/triangle count and shader complexity. no matter if it's a fps or top-down game.

Ladies, they stopped talking about performance in terms of number of polygons back in the 90s.

>>109089354
This is why everything is such a blurry mess right now.

>>109089354
true, modern hardware can push insane number of polygons, but from what I hear from buddies still working in gamedev (poor souls), their artists can still put 10M triangle placeholder fork model into a scene and kill frame rate. there's no hardware that cannot be beat by human incompetence.

>>109089351
fixed distance cameras have less triangles to render, and they use less complex shaders to do it

>>109089362
>the psx was renowned for its razor sharp video output

>>109089448
there's no such rule

>>109089517
Rule? It's not a rule, it's just the practical reality. When you make a top-down game the graphics are designed to be viewed at 10-20m distance, as opposed to an FPS/TPS where they're designed to be viewed at a 1-2m distance minimum. So they have a lot more detail. That's not just triangle count, its animation detail, third person animations are much more complex with morphs and so on, also you have more complex shaders like for subsurface scattering on skin, hair, etc. Plus in first person you can generally see way more of the world looking foward than you can with a small top down slice

Really this comes down to you acting like an arrogant prick about a topic you really haven't thought about all too hard, so you went with your first (understandable, but wrong) impression and you're sticking to it

>>109082068
Are you a schizo? yes he develops the game on stream, he has streamed development for thousands of hours and he does most of the job. He even fired most of the other devs because he wasn't happy with their work.

>>109089486
For its time, it was.

>>109089606
>he develops the game on stream, he has streamed development for thousands of hours and he does most of the job.
It's not him it's an Indian in makeup

>>109089606
So you haven't watched his streams, got it.
He toys around with code 90% written by others. After that he shoves it at the contractors he pays to actually write it.

I can't dev on stream because I say the n-word too much and also the r-word and the f-word and the k-word among others

>>109089632
>He toys around with code 90% written by others
It's code he wrote himself

>>109089635
If you pay someone to write code for you, that code may be yours, but it sure as hell isn't written by yourself.
You realize he actively speaks about doing this when he's interviewed, right? It's not a secret.

>>109089643
No he wrote it himself, he didn't pay people to write it
Goddamn you're insane

Claude, make me a game engine.

I don't get why Jonathan Blow spent over 10 years making another C++ replacement that only a fraction of devs will use(I doubt it would even come close to Rust in terms of usage). If AAA devs aren't productive enough to make games using their own tech, what makes him think Indie devs will? Best case scenario is that his new game sells well, unlike Braid AE which allows him to make new games at a faster pace.

>>109089647
You know this is all public data that you can see yourself? It's in the thekla inc filings, in the interviews he gives, a few times he even talks about it on his streams (for example he was crying about braid ae not making enough money so he can't afford to have anyone work on his game or compiler anymore and will probably have to fire everyone).
You have severe brain problems.

>>109089634
>r-word and the f-word and the k-word
Care to say what these words are?

>>109089681
I saw an interview with one of his employees and he say Jon writes most of the compiler code
Jon also said the same thing on his stream

>>109089691
[citation needed]
but only after you take your meds

>>109089696
>[citation needed]
Hilarious coming from the guy making up bullshit

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>>109089632
>>109089643
>>109089681
Forget meds, you need to be institutionalized.

>>109089699
>>109089714
Have you tried googling the publicly available information I mentioned? Or watching his streams? Did jblow enjoy the blowj you gave him? How does the cum from his tiny pecker taste? How much did you pay for the privilege of blowing him?

>>109089729
>Have you tried googling the publicly available information I mentioned? Or watching his streams?
Yes

>>109089729
Post a single piece of evidence that at least 50% of the compiler or OotSS code isn't his.

Should be easy, right?

>>109089743
Of course. It's all over google.

>>109089751
Show us

>>109089754
google it

>>109089757
I did, I didn't see it
Now post a single link supporting your claims

>>109089761
www.google.com
Here's a link. Have fun.

>>109089776
You should be banned for wasting everyone's time

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>>109076297
I want to develop a game and I also want to develop an engine except I don't want to put either of those things together

>>109089803
Comfy frog.

>>109089778
You should be banned for being unbelievably gay. Here are a few first-hits from google for you:
http://the-witness.net/news/2011/03/jobs/ shows that multiple fulltime and additional part time programmers were hired, and that was throughout the full project. Do you think blowj writes more code than an entire fulltime team on his own?
In this interview: https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/catching-up-with-jonathan-blow
jblow himself points out he only wrote the original minimal skeleton and only focuses on game design after that, letting the fulltime employees actually write the code. That has been how he's been conducting his work as early as braid, though braid was obviously more hands on and he did more work before hiring contractors at the end (in what he called a 'final production run').
In 2025, the team was already more than 8 people:
https://www.polygon.com/features/2015/9/17/9343943/the-witness-hands-on-preview-feature-braid-jonathan-blow-interview-ps4-playstation-4-pc/

Here, jblow admits that until he went broke, the team was actively working on jai:
https://www.eurogamer.net/braid-anniversary-edition-sold-like-dog-s-says-creator-jonathan-blow

Here, he explains spending a long time already working on another game that will be on the odor of the stinking saar engine but will not be a puzzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xgeZ16HpH0
Do you really think he has time to prototype new games while working on jai and his smelly game fulltime? Like he explained, he spends most time on design, the actual code is paid for.

I also don't understand why you jblowsexuals try to lie about this. This part of his process is the only good thing about him, it's a very cool way to work that is uniquely fitting to balance ownership, low budget, high conviction, quality and efficiency in production. If you take that away from him he's an even worse nocoder.

>>109089851
>jblow himself points out he only wrote the original minimal skeleton and only focuses on game design after that, letting the fulltime employees actually write the code
He didn't say that
Nothing else you say is evidence or proof of anything, just you assuming shit
I thought you were a troll but you're geniunely insane

>>109089803
>except I don't want to put either of those things together
this is called low-coupling and its good software design

>>109089859
That is literally explicitly what he states in the interview that I directly linked. As I said, take your meds.

>>109089859
he's right you know
have you coped dilated and seethed any harder today?

>>109089869
I'm not gonna pretend like I didn't know that. what I meant at a little less superficial level is that I don't actually want to draw anything on the screen at this point.

>>109089870
What he says in the interview is that he did the initial technical programming on THe Witness, then hired someone to continue technical programming while he did game design AND gameplay programming (which you omitted, pretending he only does game design)
No idea why you have to lie about Jonathan Blow, nobody here likes him and we're all making fun of him aswell, take your fucking medication

>>109089885
You are an unironic schizo.
>because as a designer it's easier to get things done if you just type it in. But most of the programming [I'm] doing [now] is like, "I want this certain object that behaves in a certain way", right? Whereas before it was like, "I need the shadows all over the world to be like accurate."
It takes you this much seething and coping over ONE (1) of the elements I provided as source and you still can't manage to do anything about it. Imagine if you had to go over the rest.

>>109089898
>But most of the programming [I'm] doing [now]
Yes, as I said, he still did the programming, whereas you pretend he stopped programming to just do game design
Everything else you say is not related to the point, just you speculating

>>109089902
4/8 b8 even a blowhard wouldn't be that desperate but I fell for it.

>>109089898
>>109089902
There is only 1 way to settle this between you 2. The person who cannot plainly state "a man cannot become a woman" is the liar.

>>109089910
I don't like Jonathan Blow
You are severely mentally ill and terrible at arguing, I hope you don't believe your own bullshit

>why yes, my video game requires highly invasive brain surgery in order to play

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>>109089914
I'm neither of them but I just wanted to say trannies will never be women and fuck niggers

Thank you for your attention

>>109089577
Your generalization is only accurate for typical top-down fixed camera games, not all, and particularly not top-down games that specifically aim to depict greater depth. Hence why you wind up on the wrong side of the argument here but cannot figure out why.

>>109089986
>Your generalization is only accurate for typical top-down fixed camera games, not all
It's accurate for the one being discussed
There's nothing I "can't figure out", this is just you being wrong and trying to save face

>>109089914
I'm the anti-jblow chad and what can I say, a man cannot become a woman, and troons don't even qualify as human. That said, there is no need to resort to this, I have stated multiple points of evidence. The counter-evidence is "dude trust me the literal words of the person we are literally discussing aren't real because... they just aren't ok".

>>109089997
>I have stated multiple points of evidence
You've stated one, which you lied about then proved yourself wrong by posting the quote you lied about

>>109089997
Trying way too hard there bro

>>109090002
>if I ignore the evidence there is no evidence
The jblow dick is stuck so far down your throat it obviously curled around and penetrated your brain. Quite the achievement given jblow's minuscule prick and your microscopic excuse for a brain.

Looks like results are in anons
>>109089997
statement present -> winrar
>>109090002
no statement -> troon

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Coding music https://thebig80sstation.com/

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>rework system
>elegant, streamlined, love it
>a week later something pops up
>needs to be handled by that system
>the most "elegant" solution isn't elegant at all
>now I don't like it anymore
Every time

>>109090010
You:
>jblow himself points out he only wrote the original minimal skeleton and only focuses on game design after that
the article:
>Now, I'm mostly focused on game design and also on gameplay programming
So you're lying or retarded

>>109090023
>and by game programming I mean changing the x and y coordinates so it's not really programming
Is what the quote literally says but that's a bit too hard for you to comprehend obviously. Needs an IQ over 0 for this, and you just don't quite make the cut.

>>109090033
>Is what the quote literally says
It doesn't say that, you're lying again

>>109090042
I don't see anything wrong with any item on this table.
>>109090044
>don't believe your lying little eyes
>ignore what blowjob says only believe my headcanon of what he said instead

>>109090047
He didn't say that. You made it up. I posted what he actually said

>>109090042
>simple looking
To be honest, OotSS really is not simple looking for a puzzle game >>109087106. It's actually quite fancy looking, though I hate the black outlines on characters and movable objects.

>>109090151
>OotSS really is not simple looking for a puzzle game
you need to check out some of the latest puzzle games on Steam because it looks worse than many of them

>>109090151
Is this a joke? I can't tell if serious but it looks like a very simple looking indie game from 10 years ago, let alone today.

>>109090157
>>109090161
Imagine seething this hard at some guy because he said your programming language or practices are shit at some point in the last 10 years

>>109090169
I'm not mad at all, I think it's pretty amusing that Jon's game has several problems including performance after all his big talk

>Stopped working on a new programming language.
>Now working on a new music composer software
The roller coaster never ends.

>>109090183
He showed in stream that the frame time on CPU is less than 2 milliseconds, it's almost entirely bottlenecked by GPU effects.

>>109090169
What seething? I just think it's very funny. Not to mention I'm not the one denying the reality that comes out of jblow's own mouth.