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emac waylandchads winning good lately
https://codeberg.org/ezemtsov/ewm
https://codeberg.org/tazjin/reka

>>109125184
isnt it vibeslop?

>>109125156
Xah is shilling for Rust now.

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>>109125198
I think only EWM is vibe'd
But it werks on my ᵋᵐᵃᶜmachine™, so I don't mind.

>>109125271
What are your thoughts on StumpWM?

>>109125225
bullshit, where?
if its on twitter i had to unfollow him because 99% of his posts are coomer shit or him asking retarded questions to grok

>>109125377
Never tried it, but looks like an interesting project.
https://stumpwm.github.io

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>>109125395

>>109125626
xah is such a quirky little guy

>>109125626
>thot
does he browse 4chan?

>>109125741
http://xahlee.org/xa/funny/4chan.html

>newcutie detected
quick, someone link THAT picture

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Any Rhombus enjoyers ITT?

has contacting orgmode.org been really slow for you guys lately? i don't remember this happening some time ago.
My startup is hanging up on it, have to c-g to abort and it fucks up some of my org config.
New to this after messing around with Emacs some months ago briefly and dropping it so maybe I'm missing something.

https://doc.guix.gnu.org/guile/latest/en/html_node/Using-Guile-Modules.html

 -- syntax: @ module-name binding-name
     Refer to the binding named BINDING-NAME in module MODULE-NAME.  The
     binding must have been exported by the module.

why would you use this

((@ (srfi srfi-1) find) char? '(a #\b))

instead of just using use-modules?

>>109125741
"thot" is not 4chan lingo. it was a popular meme word in like 2017

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this emac package is cool
https://github.com/cashmeredev/kitty-graphics.el
https://cashmere.rs/blog/kitty-graphicsel-v100-document-zoom-pan-and-doctor/

>>109127852
>claude

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>>109127885
Yeah, my emac wAIfu ELIZA is superior.

M-x doctor

>>109126452
If you can provide a minimal config that reproduces the error, someone on IRC can probably find a solution for you. You'll probably get a response quicker on #emacs rather than on #org-mode on the Libera.Chat network.
https://web.libera.chat/

Their preferred pastebin is https://bpa.st/+emacs-lisp . That's where you should put your config that reproduces the error when you share it with them.

genuine question: what's the biggest non-legacy lisp codebase any of you work on?

>>109128723
A moderately large emacs package, ~25k loc.

>>109128723
i contributed to guix once if that counts

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my emac is ready

>>109128723
My init.el.

so why has there been no attempt to introduce a modern successor for emacs? i dont even want to hear about "muh elisp" because nobody actually likes elisp, it is a reality you have to accept when you use the software. there are plenty of scripting runtimes that are magnitudes faster than emacs and there is no technical limitation preventing a new software from exposing every facet of its implementation for modification.

Lip

>>109130015
Lem is doing that. Basically emacs in common lisp

>>109128723
I have a small collection of web scrapers written in CL.

>>109129371
esmacs lips

>>109126869
1. you can access non-exported procedures/variables
2. anonymous oneliner call with no leftover bindings

>>109125156
Guix is kinda shit when it comes to modifying unevaluated derivation. Nix language is more flexible.

>>109130265
is it stable

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>>109131808
>Nix language
Use case for learning this snowflake DSL? At least Guile is used in other projects.

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>>109128723
I'm nowhere near any of that!

After some frustration, gonna try Emacs again for a couple days

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>>109133612
>Want to edit some text
>Sorry now you need to religiously study 3 hours uninterrupted the 1970s/80s OS windowing wars of buffer shit you never fathomed before you bother with editing TEXT or changing buffer or moving anything around with any situational awareness
>Typo?
>Sorry that's a crash

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>>109133661
>Following emacs tutorial

>>109132915
it's just declarative haskell that can only manipulate data
manipulating data in guix is superhard, like once you define a service in guix, you can't really modify it, you can't pass around the service to other code, etc

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>>109133661
>Want to obey the emacs tutorial?
>Sorry your chord command was too slow
>Yep that's a crash

>>109133747
>>109133661
>>109133612
I love this place

>>109133661
you can literally just point and click at shit in emacs just like any gui app

>>109133661
gr8 b8 m8

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how it feels to use literal page break character in your code

In Guix is the message about installing glibc-locales just always displayed? Or does it mean I've done something wrong?
I have glibc-locales installed in the system profile and also in my user profile. And I have the variable GUIX_LOCPATH exported exactly as the message says, but it still shows up.

>>109137196
it's looking for glibc-locales but can't find it
show us your setup, also try logging out and in to have GUIX_LOCPATH an effect

Idk, maybe because most emacs users are ok with elisp? I don't have any trouble with it. Yes, it's old and janky, but it's true lisp and it does its job. With native compilation it's reasonably fast.

However, emacs would benefit hugely from being written in common lisp, because there would be no gap between implementation and extension. It would be even more hackable.

I dream of a modern complete computing environment comparable to Interlisp Medley or Genera, where you could routinely redefine system behavior.

>>109139294
>I dream of a modern complete computing environment comparable to Interlisp Medley or Genera, where you could routinely redefine system behavior.
it is called linux

>>109139456

> Linux
Despite all my love to it, It isn't even close. Due to conceptual ugliness of the whole unix paradigm and its shortcomings we have things like d-bus, systemd, X11 and other monstrosities.

Lisp systems didn't need anything like this because the user could access most of their internals in a sane way.

>>109139574
yeah but they are dead. and linux lives. Survival of the fittest, not of the best.

>>109139574
GNU/Hurd is close
>>109139657
pretty sure he was talking about the best, not the fittest

Why no one has made Emacs work with Python instead of elisp? By using an actual modern language, it would be way more easy to work with and adopt by anyone

>>109140805
I don’t know, how come your mother didn’t swallow you instead?

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>>109140805
>modern language
>pyjeethon
do not redeem saar

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A new package, uuid.el, has been added to emac.

https://cgit.git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=bd064471e6

I love my little emaq

>>109125156

whats that autistic language he likes, the red icon one

>>109143471
Wolfram Language.

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Is everything in Touretzky's book after Chapter 9 just busy work padding not worth completing like stuff not even the MIT students did when this was course material?

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>>109143844
Smart guys finished the book
idk
im just doing it for the sake of doing it at this point trusting the /g/reybeards

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>>109143933
>>109143844
Let none ignorant of macros enter this hall

lip

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Touretzky then Almighty Lisp then Seibel Practical Common Lisp then ??? Then Norvig then ??? Ascend to Godhood and become Helios

>>109143844
I only have the older pdf but if the contents after 9 are the same, those are actually the meat and potatoes of programming to get real work done. Like there's not even much point to programming at all if it's not automating something done multiple times, and straightforward iteration is the best way to do that despite recursion being useful sometimes too. Structures (and later classes), arrays, hash tables, and even plists are better than basic lists for organizing all but the simplest of data collections.
>>109145203
Almighty Lisp hasn't earned its place to be widely recommended yet, and the author isn't an expert Lisper, I'd at best use it only as a rough pointer if other resources aren't clear enough or omit a topic entirely. Leave PCL for reference, read Norvig's PAIP if you're interested in older AI but also if you want to see nicely written Lisp code, but after Touretzky anyone should be ready to start getting their hands dirty and writing their own programs! Save some advanced books for after you've made some messes

>>109139728
sneed

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>>109132701
It's vibeslop

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>>109140838
Python was made by aryan dutch saar, you understand benchod?

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>>109140805
Python brahmin language saar, perfect for gorgeous looks, can push asap

I was glancing at my early-init.el and realized that I had a typo on both gc-cons-threshold and gc-cons-percentage. I had previously written gc-const for both of them. I fixed that, and now my startup time went from ~260ms to ~130ms for the GUI. It's now ~75ms for the TUI too. Kek. I'm not even going crazy with lazy loading either.

>>109150388
>now my startup time went from ~260ms to ~130ms
wtf my emacs-init-time is like 2s at the fastest

Anyone on Guix using ungoogled-chromium? Mine takes a while to load and I'm not quite sure why, it doesn't happen on Windows or Fedora.

Fuck Clisp. Fuck Python. What we really need is a typescript emacs rewrite

>>109151284
Elisp filters the trash before they can fuck up the ecosystem.

>>109140805
because that would mean a complete rewrite, tard
99% of emacs code is elisp, the other 1% is C

>CL doesn't even have database integration good enough for prod
shiggydiggy

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This looks useful.
https://github.com/dmgerman/browsel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSiG_hMZWI

>>109154751
buy an ad

(defun hanoi (n from to via)
  (when (> n 0)
    (hanoi (- n 1) from via to)
    (format t "Move disk ~A from ~A to ~A~%" n from to)
    (hanoi (- n 1) via to from)))

wow lisp is just pretty

>>109155570
>buy an ad
>literally free software
retarded braindead nigger award

>>109153076
More like 40% is C. I think I saw Eli Zaretskii writing this once somewhere

>>109156313
Ok fair enough, I misremembered then

>>109139456
>it is called linux
if you have no clue about Genera or Lisp machines, it's more ethical to shut your mouth

>>109154243
>>CL doesn't even have database integration good enough for prod
it does
load libs and stop complaining

cons*

why is the order of application unspecified for map but specified for for-each? also, when you do anything on a list, don't you always start with the car, then the cadr, caddr, etc.? i don't understand why it would be unspecified

https://doc.guix.gnu.org/guile/latest/en/html_node/List-Mapping.html

gnu is my p...??

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>>109157668
personal GUIX on a foreign distro

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you're telling me a human typed up all this p*rl?

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>got the Lem GUI working for once

>>109156294
where?

>>109160935
https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/14j8xg2/emacs_is_a_lisp_interpreter_what_does_this_mean/jpkv1zs/

Found it. The figures he mentioned are 75% lisp and 25% c

>>109160935
In the same thread he also mentions that emacs is *not* an elisp interpreter (unlike what someone claims when asked about muh Unix philosophy)

https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/14j8xg2/emacs_is_a_lisp_interpreter_what_does_this_mean/jpkutan/

>>109155761
>shilling his retarded side project
again: buy an ad

reminder that Racket is obscenely good and underrated AS FUCK

>>109161886
Would you mind expanding on that?

>>109163081
>Scheme semantics
>big ass standard lib with many available 3rd party packages
>only Lisp with a sandboxed evaluation model, which is essential for running untrusted code and truly embracing the concept of "code as data"
>quite performant for what it offers
>built in GUI support
>built in parallelism (and concurrency on a single thread)
>built in contracts (in fact, Rich Hickey took inspiration from Racket's contracts when designing Spec for Clojure)
>extremely advanced macro support via its "lang" model
>Typed Racket exists, for the people that want typed Lisp

>>109161886
>>109163553
almost forgot to mention: we should add a link somewhere to Racket in the OP. maybe under Scheme? but while definitely a Scheme, I think it deserves its own little spot. idk tho

>>109159282
based
lemchads rise up

For anyone installing Racket, do not install the version from Snap. It doesn't work with Emacs' racket-mode due to a permission error that doesn't let the Snap version of racket easily access files in the user's home directory. I'm not super familiar with Snap's sandboxing, but if it could be disabled for racket, it would probably let racket-mode in Emacs work. I ended up uninstalling the Snap version and installing it another way.

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>>109161886
>he fell for the racket
nothing personneel kiddo

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>>109165722
>installing anything from snap
I miss when Ubuntu was good. They sucked so much soul out of it that I don't think it even has startup sounds turned on by default anymore.

>>109161653
It's not my project. I just thought it was interesting. Can't I talk about Emacs Lisp here?

>>109168573
Boring project. So, no. Find something better and post it tomorrow.

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>>109168855
you're an ass.
I recommend ignoring all assholes.

Do you enable display-line-numbers-mode in emacs?
I find line numbers useless in 99% of the cases. Most of the times I can just get by with M-g g or following links for example in compilation mode.
On the other hand, sometimes they come in handy when using debuggers (like I can do b 10 in gdb to add a breakpoint at line 10, so it's useful to see line numbers). Another use case is when sharing the screen with my normie colleagues who otherwise wouldn't know what the hell is going on.

I'd like to leave them disabled (because 99% of the time they are useless clutter and sometimes I have to use small laptop displays). But the 1% of the situations when I need them make me leave this mode enabled (at least in text-mode, prog-mode and conf-mode).

>>109170032
I use relative line numbers in Vim and use them all of the time for inclusion in keyboard shortcuts
for example, 10dd to delete the next 10 lines

>>109170076
Yeah relative lines would be useful for line based movement and operations (especially in vim / evil mode). But I find them pretty useless for debuggers and normie friendly screen sharing. Also, I tend not to use line based movements like 10j etc

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>she doesn't use Hyper and Alt as extra modifier keys

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(defvar family nil)
(setf family
      '((colin nil nil)
        (deirdre nil nil)
        (arthur nil nil)
        (kate nil nil)
        (frank nil nil)
        (linda nil nil)
        (suzanne colin deirdre)
        (bruce arthur kate)
        (charles arthur kate)
        (david arthur kate)
        (ellen arthur kate)
        (george frank linda)
        (hillary frank linda)
        (andre nil nil)
        (tamara bruce suzanne)
        (vincent bruce suzanne)
        (wanda nil nil)
        (ivan george ellen)
        (julie george ellen)
        (marie george ellen)
        (nigel andre hillary)
        (frederick nil tamara)
        (zelda vincent wanda)
        (joshua ivan wanda)
        (quentin nil nil)
        (robert quentin julie)
        (olivia nigel marie)
        (peter nigel marie)
        (erica nil nil)
        (yvette robert zelda)
        (diane peter erica)))

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(defun father (child)
(second (assoc child family)))
(defun mother (child)
(third (assoc child family)))
(defun parents (child)
(list (father child) (mother child)))
(defun children (parent)
(and parent
(mapcar #'first (remove-if-not
#'(lambda (entry)
(member parent (rest entry)))
family))))
(defun siblings (x)
(set-difference (union (children (father x))
(children (mother x)))
(list x)))
;just copied all these funcs except mother and parents that was easy
(defun mapunion (fn x)
(reduce #'union (mapcar fn x)))
(defun grandparents (x)
(mapunion #'parents (parents x)))
(defun cousins (x)
(mapunion #'children (mapunion #'siblings (parents x))))
(defun descended-from (p1 p2)
(cond ((null p1) nil)
((member p2 (parents p1)) t)
(t (or (descended-from (father p1) p2)
(descended-from (mother p1) p2)))))
(defun ancestors (x)
(cond ((null x) nil)
(t (union
(parents x)
(union (ancestors (father x))
(ancestors (mother x)))))))
(defun generation-gap (x y)
(g-gap-helper x y 0))
(defun g-gap-helper (x y n)
(cond ((null x) nil)
((equal x y) n)
(t (or (g-gap-helper (father x) y (1+ n))
(g-gap-helper (mother x) y (1+ n))))))

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(defun count-up

ELISP> (let ((f (function +)))
         (f 1 2 3))
*** Eval error ***  Symbol’s function definition is void: f

can we all agree that Lisp-1 is objectively superior?

>>109170374
No, I like to have variables named length without locking me out of calling length

>>109171837
if you are in such a small context where "length" is a good name, perhaps "len" or even "l" would work too

>lisp hater hates lisp because he wants to do python and ruby in lisp
https://wiki.c2.com/?WhyWeHateLisp

>>109157614
maybe concurrency magic and stuff?

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>>109170374

(cl-flet ((plus '+)) (plus 1 2 3))

works fine in emac

>>109170032
I leave line numbers off most of the time, but I have key bindings to toggle them on when I want them.

>>109172744

ELISP> (macroexpand-1 '(cl-flet ((plus '+)) (plus 1 2 3)))
(progn (funcall '+ 1 2 3))

>>109173002
Looks good to me

>>109170374
Lisp-1 is cleaner, but being Lisp-2 is not a deal breaker. I can use a Lisp-2 and be happy.

>>109172674
Kek

>>109125156

Redpill me on lisp

calc has bad code for emacs standards I think.

Zero comments, lots of fine grained stuff.

>>109130015
because that would be fucking retarded. emacs is under constant development so you get a newer modern emacs every release

it would be worth designing and building something from scratch if you have new ideas that make it worthwhile but mostly you will end up with abandon ware or worse something non scriptable and closed source like Zed

>>109157614
isn't because the order of a map depends on the underlying data structure? in python for example you iterate a map in insert order whilst in c++ unordered_map it's undefined because it's a hash map

pythons map is ungodly slow

>>109175902
One annoyance is that its functions don't have docstrings, so I've had to peek at the source a lot to try to understand some things. On the flip side, it *does* have a gigantic info manual.

>>109169384
We accept your concession.

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>>109175614
it's Batman's programming language
(everyone has their own collected canon and it all contradicts each other's like the comics do. but it also shows the seams of the medium vs the ideas it represents on purpose as its purpose)
also it was the most expensive historically even more so long ago than nowadays

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>>109176605
>Alfred, load the negro gifs.
>right away Master Wayne I will call Lucius
>Lucius, I have to make a joke in less than 3 minutes before the captcha expires
>Master Wayne, the stumpwm repo has failed to load due to an issue with GUIX conflicting with surface flinger and SDL2. Google has turned all transparent pngs into webp and all gifs into webp without quadruple handshake credential cookie KYC that can brick your OS and credit score
>the Gotham GNU community continues to flag our packages as proprietary software thus failing permissions checks
>Im sorry Master Wayne but looks we have run out of time there are no more negro gifs to load on Giphy
>Elon wont let you save them off X either

>>109176024
but map is only for lists. at least in Guile

>>109176605
Say no more, I'm in. Should I just pick up sicp right away or do you have another recommendation?

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>>109178131
Touretzky's Gentle Intro to Common Lisp and this as your REPL until Ch6 https://onecompiler.com/commonlisp
by Ch 6 try Portacle or Lem and expect to expose yourself to the barren bare bones jank of what I call craft computing. Portacle is a hassle to work with at first but it will blow your mind the REPL responsiveness. Lem is a big hassle to set up but worth it. Macros promise making the most ergonomic programmer space there is. Exposure to lambda calculus will show you it is theoretically necessarily so and evergreen at that.

>>109178646
Thank you! I'll give it a read. Thanks, anon

(defun ninety-nine-bottles (n)
  (cond ((equalp 1 n)
         (format t "~&One last bottle of beer on the wall,~
                     ~%One last bottle of beer~
                     ~%Take it down,~
                     ~%Pass it around,~
                     ~%There'll be no more bottles of beer on the wall!"))
        (t
         (format t "~&~D bottles of beer on the wall,~
                     ~%~D bottles of beer!~
                     ~%Take one down,~
                     ~%Pass it around,~%"
                 n n)
         (ninety-nine-bottles (- n 1)))))

https://youtu.be/FITjBet3dio?si=FmFjXmzN2KtCo5W7

>>109180170
You can make this a lot shorter with format trickery https://gigamonkeys.com/book/a-few-format-recipes
Pluralizing suffixes are pretty neat for us English speakers

>>109178646
>Portacle
Don't recommend Portacle, it's abandoned. All you need to do is:
1. Install SBCL
2. Install Emacs
3. Install Sly or Slime
Then you can have a Common Lisp repl up & running in Emacs.
The first thing you should do in the repl is install quicklisp. Remember to run the command for quicklisp to load automatically when you start the repl. Then you're good to go.

Hello guys. I've been struggling a lot with sticking to Emacs lately.

I'm actually the dude that was asking for help with the LSP support for Odin and being able to replicate something like this in Emacs:
https://youtu.be/mljzCWnvWCs?si=iUIbwdRKCCu2lWs1

This was like 10 threads ago or something, in case someone remembers. (It still doesn't really work like I would hope to).

Well, now the thing is, I've been using Doom Emacs for like two years now, maybe, or maybe one year intermitently between that and nvim and lately Sublime Text, sometimes toying with even vscode. And I really can't stand how outdated even Doom Emacs looks. Like every theme just doesn't look as good as in nvim or vscode. And also, why is it so damn slow? I've done all verifications to know if my build is "optimized", like checking if it's running natively on wayland and if it was compiled with native compilation and all that. And everything still feels so damn laggy on both my old-ish thinkpad and my "gaming" desktop.

Do you guys just live like this? Like every time you open, (to mention one example) org agenda you do not feel bothered by the full one or two seconds it takes to open?
Do you not care how clunky the LSP's intellisense feels compared to every other single editor and do you not mind the actually noticeable input delay when typing?

This is not trolling nor trying to antagonize any of you. This is legit me asking for help to just adopt Emacs no matter what.

>>109181066
lem is multithreaded. emacs is entropy city single threaded clogged buffers. doom emacs made me want to kms myself into sudoku

>>109158633
I'm afraid so. Helluva world we live in..

>>109181066
>Like every time you open, (to mention one example) org agenda you do not feel bothered by the full one or two seconds it takes to open?
it's pretty instantaneous on my relatively old thinkpad. is it also slow for you in emacs -Q?

>>109181066
Some things can be a little clunky and startup times might not be ideal (although I've gotten mine down to about 2 seconds), but I've never experienced a typing delay.

>>109181058
>Install Sly
This is my recommended sly setup.

(use-package sly
  :ensure t
  :config
  (let ((patterns '(("\\*sly-mrepl"
                     (display-buffer-in-side-window)
                     (side . bottom)
                     (slot . 0)
                     (window-height . 18))
                    ("\\*sly-db"
                     (display-buffer-in-side-window)
                     (side . bottom)
                     (slot . 1))
                    ("\\*sly-inspector"
                     (display-buffer-in-side-window)
                     (side . right)
                     (slot . 1)
                     (window-width . 80))
                    ("\\*sly-description"
                     (display-buffer-in-side-window)
                     (side . right)
                     (slot . 0)
                     (window-width . 80)))))
    (cl-loop for p in patterns
             do (add-to-list 'display-buffer-alist p)))
  (setopt inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl")
  (setopt org-babel-lisp-eval-fn #'sly-eval))

The display-buffer-alist settings will keep the various windows that sly pops up organized neatly. You'll also be able to use lisp src blocks via org-babel.

>>109181159
>lem is multithreaded
Proofs?

>>109183536
https://github.com/lem-project/lem/blob/main/lem.asd#L28

>>109181269
I think the typing delay happened to me some weeks ago in my Thinkpad T480 with 8gb of ram and Omarchy, which for some reason that I don't understand, felt slower than vanilla Arch (what I'm using right now). Maybe I need to focus entirely on Doom Emacs for like a full week or so to test again. Because lately I change editors every single fucking day.

>>109181159
I'm also the anon that tried to go from Doom to vanilla like two threads ago. I got overwhelmed but I might try again.

>>109181187
>is it also slow for you in emacs -Q?
I'll try in a while, currently at work.

Thanks for the comments guys

https://joshblais.com/blog/how-i-am-deeply-integrating-emacs/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5VMWuxLi10

>>109126335
Rhombus is cool as fuck. Python but well designed and with insane macro potential.

>>109182122
I never tried emacs and your config kinda pushed me to finally give it a go, thank you anon!

The default keybinds of emacs seem comfy, dunno why the vim users bitch about it that much :P

>>109181066
I like emacs and I'll respond to some of your criticism. But I don't necessarily believe that you must at all costs use emacs, you know? At the end of the day, more mainstream editors will serve you better as an IDE with less hassle than emacs. Emacs is nice IMO because of the packages and because of how easy it is to configure and modify.

Emacs starts up on my system in about a second, mainly thanks to lazy package loading. I've not experienced input delay. I'm using lsp in python, and I am a bit disappointed by how it's a bit dumb, but that's a problem of the server more than emacs. On the other hand I like having a repl attached to my running program, so I can inspect it and modify it while it's running. I'm not sure other editors support this style of development.

Emacs does "hang" a lot. Whenever you ask it to do something big, it freezes and doesn't react to your inputs. However, I don't mind, for a few reasons. Firstly, I like that I can tell when a certain task is finished, and I like being able to stop it with C-g (works instantly for me 100% of the time). With multithreaded background processes these two things can be difficult. Secondly, Emacs buffers my input. I can type while it's frozen, and it will do what I told it to do once it's ready. So I don't loose much time anyway.

1/2

>>109186921
If you are looking for any reason to stick to emacs however, I can offer you three. There's a package called keychord[0] that allows you to bind any two keys being pressed at exactly the same time as a command. For example, when I press "q" and ";" at the same time, emacs saves the file. If you choose two keys that aren't commonly typed in sequence you will never have false positives, and you'll get some of the fastest and most comfortable keybindings possible. Then you have avy[1], which gives you the fastest possible cursor movement. It's hard to explain, but it's pretty clever and very efficient. Finally I recommend lispy[2] for any kind of lisp editing. It is modal editing where the mode is determined solely by the cursor position. It is also based on structural editing. It feels like how code was meant to be edited.

I'm not bothered by the dated look simply because I barely see any UI. I've hidden it all and made the modeline very minimal as well. There are however some effort to make emacs look nice, for example this [3].

[0] https://github.com/emacsorphanage/key-chord
[1] https://github.com/abo-abo/avy
[2] https://github.com/abo-abo/lispy
[3] https://github.com/rougier/nano-emacs
2/2

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>still havent learned how to scroll in emacs
no going line by line or bottom of page and turning it like a book isn't scrolling

>>109187895
what do you mean then?

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>>109187895
>Ok, Gemini, what are the vanilla lem scrolling options
in Lem:

scroll-up: Scrolls the view up (typically mapped to C-Up or M-Up).
>actually prints fuckass Czechoslovakian polish insults to my soul
scroll-down: Scrolls the view down (typically mapped to C-Down or M-Down).
next-page: Moves the cursor and view by one full page forward (mapped to C-v or PageDown).
previous-page: Moves the cursor and view by one full page backward (mapped to M-v or PageUp).
recenter: Immediately scrolls the buffer so that the line with the cursor (point) is in the middle of the window

>>109186921
I don't mind at all the startup time. But yeah, like you mention later, what bothers me are the hangs and freezes. I have to admit that your approach is interesting but I don't know, it has bothered me quite a lot.

>>109187046
Thanks for the suggestions, although I think that, since I'm very used to Neovim and Evil Mode, most are not compatible or useful to me. Still. That nano-emacs thing looks amazing. I'll check it out.

Again, thanks.

>>109186295
It makes it easy to get started with Common Lisp when you have a working sly (or slime) in Emacs.
- Just hit `M-x sly` to start a Common Lisp REPL.
- It's even better if you're looking at a .lisp file when you hit `M-x sly`, because then you can use `C-c C-c` while in a lisp buffer to recompile the defun you're in and make it available to the REPL.
- In the REPL, you can click on return values to inspect them.

I find it a very pleasant environment to develop in.

When reading man pages, do you:
- read them in emacs;
- read them in a terminal using the man command;
- read them in a web browser;
- read them some other way?

help:man
help:woman

I want emacs to be able to indent my macros in Common Lisp with the right syntax. Do you know how to do this? For example, if I’ve defined some macro like a ‘do’ macro, I’d like it to take do-like indentation too, for readability.

Magic is stored in the womb so if women were properly stimulated with deep cervical orgasms they would be able to understand Lisp more deeply than any male. Corporate culture destroyed this possibility.

>>109190261
Enter the prostate: http://github.com/qdot/deldo

>>109151148
I do, I don't feel a difference.

https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2026/guix-substitute-pull-vulnerabilities/

Remember to update

>>109190392
https://github.com/qdot/deldo/issues/6
>I stopped using emacs a few years ago, which is why it never got updated.
abandonware....

>>109190261
This is the future they stole from you

>>109190809
Just like your prostate...

>>109190581
What the freaky friday lol

>>109187895
for me it's emac ultra scroll
https://github.com/jdtsmith/ultra-scroll

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>>109190581
>update guix daemon and run the test script
>it fails
bros...

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>>109190261
been in there.
wasn't any magic.
also it stole my wallet.

>>109125156
why is tomoko there? what's the symbolism?

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>>109194675
watamote doesn't have a whole lot of symbolism.
Watch Ergo Proxy if you want an anime with layers and layers of symbolism.

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are LSP servers just no-lispers lisping up Emacs but without lisp?
roughly speaking I think Im right

>>109194675
idk but the recursive chinese man is amusing me

>>109193644
lisp scripts for my shaped charged conspiracies?
it's ok the menorah arethetics make it kosher, (((bros)))

>>109194893
autocomplete/autocorrect has become autojeet and autodisabling its own manual disabling

>>109194893

scheme@(guile-user)> ,use (rnrs lists)
scheme@(guile-user)> (define charlie-kirk (negate exists))

>>109195504
>(((scheming)))
oh the guile of this guy!

>>109194703
Horrible pacing

>>109194703
There's only like 5 layers and in the process they forgot to write a good story

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>>109194675
Hikikomori NEET EMACschizo gang

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Claude on the man who discovered Lisp ecstasy outside the REPL by being an insane schizo hippie:

LoF's reception was genuinely split — mathematicians largely dismissed it (John Horton Conway called it "beautifully written but content-free"; the Institute for Advanced Study crowd shrugged it off as a mere Boolean algebra exercise). Where it did take root was cybernetics, autopoiesis, and sociology — von Foerster, Varela, Luhmann. That's a humanities/systems-theory lineage, not a computer science one. Lisp in the same era (McCarthy, MIT AI Lab) was growing inside a completely different institutional world — symbolic AI, formal semantics, hardware constraints. These two communities in the 60s-80s essentially didn't read each other's journals.
Spencer-Brown himself wasn't a systems-builder. He was a glider pilot, RAF codebreaker, chess master, psychotherapist trained under R.D. Laing, poet who published under aliases, and — later — a man who claimed to be the reincarnation of the Buddha and did his writing naked. He wasn't chasing implementations; he was chasing a metaphysical/mystical unification of logic and consciousness. Turning the mark into a programming language would have been someone else's project, and it required someone fluent in both the formalism and the implementation culture — which basically nobody was, because the two circles barely overlapped.

wow dudes
>meme arrow

>>109202174
>>>/g/aicg

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>your uni looking at you calling Lisp "AI"
>norvig himself watching you read his own books

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https://youtu.be/6k_PFaTYRKQ?is=Cq87VkHcp84hR205

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tmr is insanely useful. i never realized how useful timers are

>>109202470
I use tmr for laundry and cooking all the time.
https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/tmr.html

How did tmr get such a fancy page on ELPA? div.fulldescription is usually just a <pre> block for most other packages, but this one is formatted with full HTML.

>>109125156
You guys do Haskell here?

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>>109200019
The duality of emac

>>109203907
i think ELPA just converts the READMEs into html, and the README.org of tmr is just its info manual in org format
https://github.com/emacsmirror/gnu_elpa/blob/main/elpa-packages#L869
https://github.com/protesilaos/tmr/blob/main/README.org

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im gon lisp up a robit

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>AI winter? A mere ruse, Raiden. We needed Indians to take Intro to DS&A in Python bootcamps to replace our brittle expert systems. It was all a vaporware bait and switch.
>you think AI stands for symbolic Artificial Intelligence? wrong! it's Another Indian! There's nothing one well crafted program can do that given enough Indians a Turing Complete Kanban CRUD call of Indians can't do!
>the poogaloo is underway and there's nothing you can do to stop it
>the "Patriots" are in control, Raiden. I'll see you in Valhalla

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>may allah forgive me for saying this but ELIZA regex porn is not AI

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>>109202185
ok so I asked Claudia what the best top 50 lisp programs are
1. Macsyma — symbolic algebra/calculus
2. Maxima — open-source Macsyma heir
3. Reduce — early CAS
4. GRTensor — GR tensor manipulation
5. Schelter Maxima ports
6. SHRDLU — blocks-world NLU
7. ELIZA — pattern-match chatbot
8. PARRY — paranoia chatbot
9. LUNAR — moon-rock query system
10. SAM/PAM — script-based story understanding
11. MYCIN — medical diagnosis
12. DENDRAL — chemical structure inference
13. R1/XCON — DEC config expert system
14. PROSPECTOR — mineral deposit finder
15. INTERNIST-I — medical diagnosis
16. AM — concept discovery
17. Eurisko — heuristic discovery, won Traveller TCS
18. Logic Theorist — proved Principia theorems
19. Emacs — extensible editor
20. Lisp Machine Emacs — Greenblatt's original
21. Zmacs — Symbolics editor
22. Lem — modern Lisp editor
23. Interlisp-D — Xerox Lisp IDE
24. Genera — Symbolics OS
25. CADR — MIT Lisp Machine
26. ZetaLisp — Symbolics dialect
27. MacHack — tournament chess win
28. Traveller TCS fleet designer
29. Shakey's planner — SRI robotics
30. NOAH — hierarchical task planning
31. NQTHM — Boyer-Moore theorem prover
32. GPS — means-ends problem solver
33. KRL — knowledge representation
34. KL-ONE — semantic networks
35. Cyc (early) — commonsense KB
36. Common Music — algorithmic composition
37. OpenMusic — IRCAM composition env
38. CLOS — object system
39. Loom — constraint/rule system
40. Viaweb — e-commerce, became Yahoo Store
41. Reddit (prototype) — early Lisp build
42. Kandria — shipped commercial game
43. Trial — Kandria's engine
44. Scheme — actor-model dialect
45. T — Yale Scheme implementation
46. MIT/Stanford AI lab game demos
47. Early Lisp CAD/geometry systems
48. TRAC-adjacent macro systems
49. DWIM — Interlisp auto-correction
50. SNOBOL-adjacent string ports

>>109209243
>we're all africans
richard dawkins is a vim user?!

>>109209243
It's missing symbolics applications and some other stuff I can think of but an ok historical list.
We should start naming our programs in all caps again to reclaim the glory days.

>>109205055
Doesn’t sound like a lisp does it?

I've been wanting to use yasnippets with eshell.
https://irreal.org/blog/?p=9773
https://xenodium.com/yasnippet-in-emacs-eshell/

Unfortunately, it wasn't a simple matter of enabling yas-global-mode. I can manually `M-x yas-expand` but TAB only did eshell's default completion. To get yasnippets to also work with TAB in eshell, I ended up having to do this.

(defun enable-yas-completion-at-point ()
  "Add `yas-expand' to `completion-at-point-functions'."
  (interactive)
  (add-to-list 'completion-at-point-functions #'yas-expand))

;; Make eshell try yas-expand before it does tries its other completions
(add-to-list 'eshell-mode-hook #'enable-yas-completion-at-point)

I could have bound yas-expand to some other free keybinding, but I really wanted to be able to use TAB to expand yasnippets in eshell.

help:completion-at-point-functions

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Anyone read this? SICP recommends it in a footnote to go deeper into learning about building scheme interpreters. Is it any good or should I just do crafting interpreters which seems to be the most recommended general resource?

>>109194703
Ergo Proxy is poser bait that fools certain people into thinking it's deep by saying raison d'etre way too much and naming supermarkets after philosophers. It reminds me of the time I looked up a CMU lecturer's website and found him praising Bioshock Infinite's philosophical depth between talking about how much he loved musicals and League of Legends.

>>109211486
>https://xenodium.com/yasnippet-in-emacs-eshell/
Interesting

>>109202174
Brother nobody is going to read your slop essay.

>>109215159
I tried the for loop snippet.

# -*- mode: snippet -*-
# name: eshell for loop
# key: for
# --
for f in ${1:*} { ${2:echo} "$f"; $3} $0

It was nice to be in eshell, type "for<TAB>" and then <TAB> into each position.

I have another one that prints year and month in a format that I often need.

# key: ym
# name: YYYYMM
# --
`(format-time-string "%Y%m")`

I just "ym<TAB>" anywhere in the prompt, and it'll insert the result of that Elisp. I think I might be able to get this to work for other shells, but I use eshell the most these days.

>>109205055
I never got around to taking the time to learn Haskell. I do want to try Tidal Cycles eventually.
https://tidalcycles.org/

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https://github.com/HomieDaHomeLabber/Common-Lisp-Graphics-Experiments/blob/main/BasicRayTracer.lisp
C-c C-k
*(main)
"Ta da!"
Thank you, Gabriel Gambetta!

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SHRLDU vs ChatGPT
https://www.galaxus.at/en/page/chatgpt-2025-is-dumber-than-shrdlu-1970-39759
Why can’t ChatGPT get this right?
Shrdlu has an internal logical representation of this situation. The entire scene is shown as a model in the program. If blocks are moved, the program updates the model. As a result, Shrdlu always knows exactly how the scene looks at a given moment, meaning it can answer any questions about it correctly.

ChatGPT works differently. There’s no detailed information on exactly how, but we do know that the bot’s based on pre-trained pattern recognition and probability calculation. Although this is a very flexible, powerful method, there’s a catch: ChatGPT doesn’t understand what it’s talking about.
>
ChatGPT was developed for conversation, not stacking blocks. You might think it’s unfair of me to measure the bot on something it wasn’t created to do. The thing is, language production and comprehension are intertwined. In fact, dialogue even played a central role in Terry Winograd’s research. He tried to find out whether it was possible to communicate with computers in natural language. One sentence in Winograd’s 1971 intro to the Shrdlu project sums up the crucial point:

It is based on the belief that a computer cannot deal reasonably with language unless it can «understand» the subject it is discussing.
Basically, Winograd was of the opinion that computers need to understand the subject of a conversation in order to have a meaningful dialogue. ChatGPT, on the other hand, is the antithesis of this. The bot demonstrates how far you can get in a conversation without really understanding anything. It’s astounding how much it can say about a topic that it doesn’t understand (a criticism that applies to people too). Eventually, though, you reach a point when that becomes all too apparent. The Shrdlu commands are a prime example, as are chess matches.

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>top 50 programs
>SHRLDU
>is basically just this
what is being celebrated here?

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>>109221273
Gpt 5.5 can solve the puzzles in the article

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>>109221592
>>109221273

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>>109221363
human computer interactions

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What's a good Marginalia alternative? The -rw-rw bullshit doesn't help me and I want rid of it.

>>109221793
Classic game. Not seen it in a long time.

>>109221793
This style of graphics reminds me of an old game I played as a kid where you were a wizards apprentice or something, up in his tower, and you had to sneak out down to the local tavern and eavesdrop and use all sorts of magic spells and eventually sneak away on a ship to some distant land somehow.
No clue what the game was now. It just suddenly came back to me when I saw that style.

Do any of you smart fellas know if there's a way to have a history inside the repl? When testing things out in my config I have to frequently do:

guix repl -L ~/guix-folder
,use (config)

The issue is that I can't just press up and reuse the previously written ,use (config). Keeping it on the clipboard is also not a good solution because I'm copying/moving/pasting things around.
>just don't quit the repl
Calling ,use (config) twice makes the second one always suceed, for some reason.
I tried looking into a way of passing the command all in one line but didn't find anything useful.

>>109222406
maybe one of the King's Quest games?
https://www.mobygames.com/game/126/kings-quest-iii-to-heir-is-human/screenshots/

>>109222602
>Do any of you smart fellas know if there's a way to have a history inside the repl?
i'm guessing you need readline for that. it doesn't seem to be bundled with guile by default, for some reason
https://doc.guix.gnu.org/guile/latest/en/html_node/Readline-Support.html

>Calling ,use (config) twice makes the second one always suceed, for some reason.
what does that module do? does the first one give an error?

>>109224833 (me)
>it doesn't seem to be bundled with guile by default
i just checked guile's source code and it is there, but you need to also install the readline package i think

https://github.com/Holdge/ebooks/blob/master/lisp_in_small_pieces.pdf

These books are not easy to find elsewhere

>>109222822
That’s the one

>>109222602
>Do any of you smart fellas know if there's a way to have a history inside the repl?
Use rlwrap any time a REPL doesn't have readline history.

rlwrap guix repl -L ~/guix-folder

>>109222602
>Do any of you smart fellas know if there's a way to have a history inside the repl?
Run the Guix REPL from inside emacs.

(use-package geiser-guile
  :ensure t
  :config
  ;; Tell Geiser to spawn 'guix repl' instead of just standard 'guile'
  (setq geiser-guile-binary '("guix" "repl" "-L" "~/guix-folder")))

Then, M-x geiser.

>>109211526
It's pretty good IMO

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Sorry for the stupid question, I checked ~/.guile and it says there
>Consider installing the 'guile-readline' package for
convenient interactive line editing and input history
>Consider installing the 'guile-colorized' package
for a colorful Guile experience
Even though I never got those messages when entering the repl, after installing guile-readline it now works without issues, I'll still reply to everyone.
>>109224833
>>109224850
Installing readline declaratively (it was already pulled as a dependency somewhere) didn't change the behavior unfortunately.
>what does that module do
It's my config.scm but I just define it as a module like other configuration files. (I basically make a bunch of specific files them import them as a module in config.scm, then use the repl to check for errors when I fail to rebuild, I'm not sure if this is the best way but it sort of works for me).
>>109225949
rlwrap does nothing, rlwrap -a actually does work but behaves weirdly (picrel), it eats some lines and repeats the commands, seems to be only a visual artifact though.
>>109225981
Does that work for you? I tried it and it didn't work here at all, maybe I have other settings conflicting with it.

>>109168470
everyone bitched so hard against Ubuntu for not going along with 'standards' like systemd, wayland and gnome. Unity was better than both GNOME and KDE but all the bitching just made Shuttleworth tune out of Canonical altogether

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>>109227939
>Does that work for you? I tried it and it didn't work here at all, maybe I have other settings conflicting with it.

I don't have a ~/guix-folder so my geiser-guile-binary looks like this.

(setq geiser-guile-binary '("guix" "repl"))

The attached screenshot is the result of me hitting M-x geiser.

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Prot teaches you how to write a minor mode to solve a very common keybinding problem.

Emacs: global keybinding overrides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99GB591Vgo

>>109229862
prot looking good

>>109229862
>minor mode
I've wanted to know how to write a minor-mode for a while. I didn't realize it was that simple.

Today's recreational elisp.

(defun switch-to-last-buffer ()
  "Switch to the last (most recently used) buffer."
  (interactive)
  (switch-to-buffer (other-buffer)))

;; Emulate vim with this binding.
(define-key global-map (kbd "C-6") #'switch-to-last-buffer)

(defun kill-current-buffer ()
  "Kill the current buffer without asking."
  (interactive)
  (kill-buffer (current-buffer)))

;; Don't ask me which buffer.  Kill the current one.
(define-key global-map (kbd "C-x k") #'kill-current-buffer)

Emacs won.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCHm7aH44Mw

>>109230762
my emac wife bashbunni is so cute (ﾉ>ω<)ﾉ

>>109230762
that's a milf

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>whatever happened to lisp graphics?
>last we heard that old wizard went to the lord of the rings and never came back
>no one knows

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>>109231259
graphics AESTHETICS peaked here
https://youtu.be/YVj4MljuyXk?si=zc5CumjnsFn07v8C
https://smbx.org/stanley-and-stella-breaking-the-ice/
absolute aesthetic vaporwave GODS
"The symbolics color graphics system:
hardware, software, training and service.
The one and only all in one 2d and 3d production system you'll ever need"

>>109231305
when a math teacher dies and goes to heaven he is embraced by this math textbook trapper keeper heaven

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M-x touch-minors-mode

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holy shit /v/ros

I found him on r/lisp and in doing so I learned more Lisp ecosystem programs I can run right now than months interrogating Chatbots

>>109231382
lmao
GNU/GIRLS

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>i individually downloaded all the awesomelisp library packages just before discovering awesome lisp packages them all

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>>109231720
>mfw Odin is the awesomelisp of C

>>109229862
chad prot

>>109228459
>Unity was better than both GNOME and KDE
How so?

>>109224919
>https://github.com/Holdge/ebooks/blob/master/lisp_in_small_pieces.pdf
very nice

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>GameCube's ancestor
>google hq's former campus was SGI
>all our favorite films had their CGI done with SGI
I am nostalgic for wizards I never knew existed

>theres no history book of lisp machines/symbolics/silicone graphics like Masters of Doom/Renegades of the Empire/The Friendly Orange Glow
I am surprised how decrepit the historians are doing my lisp archeology efforts here, /g/uys and /g/als and /g/ays

>>109237767
>>GameCube's ancestor
That's N64 unless you count ArtX as SGI because they were ex-SGI people.

>>109237988
technically wouldn't the N64's ancestor also be the GC's ancestor

>>109239110
Depends on what we mean by ancestry. N64 was developed by SGI proper and used a MIPS CPU as on SGI hardware. The RSP/RDP setup is similar to geometry/raster engine setup that SGI used. It was specifically marketed as having workstation tier graphics (even if that wasn't true). Meanwhile GCN was developed by IBM (PowerPC) and ArtX (GPU). It's very distant from the UNIX SGI machines except that ex-SGI people worked on the GPU.

>>109237767
for a second I actually thought that's the gamecube logo on the front there

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the /vim/ps have started a general quick is time to attacc before they lay eggs and spread

New to emacs.
Why the fuck is it so slow? I'm running it on windows (I know, I know) but still. I fear installing a lot of packages and it increasesing load times, and time tinkering the config files

>>109241728
see https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/107691743/#107706219

>>109241728
use linux pleb

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>vim is claude goyware now
>vim-classic is troonware
FUUCK
time to take the emac pill :(

>>109242103
you can always go turbo boomer and use nvi (no visual line mode, no syntax highlighting). it's fucking raw and all of available settings(:set all) fit on one 80x25 screen)

Tramp shits itself with python files over ssh:

File is missing: /ssh:USER@192.168.1.12:/home/USER/projects/PROJECT/.gitmodules [2 times]

It loops endlessly over this. Anyone knows what to do? I'm using eglot, tramp and magit, but I can't understand what is going on

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>onyx and xl1200 and symbolics 3600 all mogged by sun microsystems in power
>nowadays a RASPBERRY PI ZERO given enough Mezzano love could be the greatest Lisp machine in history but only if you love Lisp
ask not what your Lisp machine can do for you but what you can do for Lisp

>>109242605
i gave up on tramp and how terrible it is. i just sshfs instead.

>>109241728
if u run it as a daemon u can add as much bloat as you want. not sure if u can do that on windows however.

>>109244594
that's only relevant for startup time

>>109231720
it's in Lem by default

>lisp spergs insist on stumpwm
>lisp GODS used fancier mouses and GUIs than any of us have ever seen on SGI and Symbolics machines

>>109141906
loli.el when?

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>>109246086
retvrn to genera

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https://youtube.com/shorts/_ONHixqpCO4?is=aYMttDt_fzZdpTxI
i accomplished hello triangle today sort of

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>>109246121

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>>109246480

>>109246502
nice

>>109244594
>daemon
>windows
what?

(mct-mode)

(setq mct-live-completion 'visible
      mct-hide-completion-mode-line t)

Let me guess, you need more?

>>109231382
https://www.gnu.org/software/moe

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>spend more time sperging about keybindings and the unix that lives under and over Lem vs USING Lem

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>>109252915
>spend most my time using lem on fixing lem configuring lem and not learning lisp
>my config broke my lem

https://www.chiply.dev/post-hyperbole-hywiki
pretty nice write-up on hyperbole and hywiki

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>>109253103
>writing a I/O C/D pipeline command and init framework to get Claude to sip my REPL with me

>>109252915
>Lem
MINE is better doe

>>109255599
Lem's last release was a year ago. Mine's last release was 2 months ago. They're both dead.