Do you believe that we could reclaim the internet?Not in a culture war or political way, I mean from corporations and governments.Every website tracks every possible data point it can. Every device is key logging, tracking mouse movements, engagement, etc. Simple websites require ID verification, SMS verification, connections to other websites and forms of contact. All with the intent to recreate your identity in their records. There is no free space on the internet anymore. Everything is controlled, manipulated, astroturfed, botted, any website or application you use is infested.The idea of creating your own persona and identity online, separate from your corporeal self, is dead.Do you think we could reclaim the network, or at least recreate our own?
Internet 2.0 is the answer, reclaiming it will never work or happen, not with 6 billion active users.Create a new protocol(s)Ban javascriptBan devices that are not displaying the website in horizontalBan devices with specific resolutionsIP ban the entirety of the South Asian Subcontinent
>>109155615>ban javascriptinternet does not use javascript.>websitesinternet is mostly not comprised of websites. whether talking about traffic, which is mostly video over tcp, or other large sources of traffic like dns>devicesinternet is unaware of the user's devices. the only exposed device is your router or isp natpeople like you are the root of the problem, because you associate internet with the web.>>109155493>inb4 mass surveillancestates just want easier, cheaper and faster tools to survey their population. even on 100% encrypted traffic, it's still really easy to inquire about encrypted messages by looking at metadata (a type of side-channel attacks that most protocols can't prevent).it's already possible for most states to use these techniques, but the US has the advantage of being one of the largest hub.also, most tech companies don't need id verification to know who is who, because they can use behavioral fingerprinting which is highly reliable and almost impossible to fake.the reason they're pushing for age verification is so that they can put the blame on the government. when, for instance, a child is being groomed on facebook, they'll just say the government didn't do their job to prevent a child from being on facebookhttps://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/reddit-user-uncovers-behind-meta-154717384.html
>>109155493>>109155615Join the fediverse
>>109156754>a bunch of dogshit social media clonesNah just start over.
>>109156754this.png
>Simple websites require ID verification, SMS verification, connections to other websites and forms of contact. All with the intent to recreate your identity in their records. There is no free space on the internet anymore.objectively falsehttps://kagi.com/smallweb/>>109155493>Do you think we could reclaim the network, or at least recreate our own?https://geminiprotocol.net/but>The idea of creating your own persona and identity online, separate from your corporeal self, is dead.https://www.theargumentmag.com/p/i-can-never-talk-to-an-ai-anonymously> AI only needs 150 words to identify me. What does that mean for you?
>>109155493i don't see why it matters. the internet was started in the US as a military project. It was always owned by the government. And how do you think people are connected by the internet? By big corporate utility companies that lay down the fiber optic cable and make it possible for everyone to be able to connect with eachother in the first place. the internet is a quasi public utility. culturally, the internet has changed a lot, with women and normies and third worlders being able to access the internet and consuming and spouting off whatever bullshit it is that they eat and excrete and jewish people buying out tiktok etc. and censoring everything.
Would anybody be interested at this point though? You say not in a culture war or political way, but the people who were the biggest adherents of those types of ideas over a decade ago either died, moved on, or got radicalized, all largely because of those ways
>>109155615Don't bother banning peopleJust define a new html alternative and write a a browser to render it. Chrome will never support your format so that's 90% of the problem solved. This solution is better because you can coopt existing URLs, so when someone shares a link on reddit it looks like Chrome should render it, but on visiting the site it fails. This makes Chrome look bad.
>>109156754Can I say nigger on the (((fed)))iverse or will that get me banned from every relevant platform?
>>109156519Honestly I feel like it’s too late for me having only started caring about privacy online over the past few years. I’m sure anything the government wants to know is already known
>>109161191I'm gonna give you a little bit of advice, but the government is the least of your problems.Large tech companies are constantly using all means they have access to, to increase the amount of money they can drain from customers.If google's AI (I'm talking about their backbone business AI, not the crap generative AIs), the AI that decides what content to push to every individual, decides it's gonna be highly profitable to get you to join a PMC, then it will gladly 'nudge' you towards that goal.Facebook AI has already been shown to inhibit this kind of behaviors: https://www.ucanews.com/news/facebooks-link-to-rohingya-genocide/98959These AIs are basically set up to increase profit, by deciding what content you get to see, what people you get to interact with, what group you'll ultimately join, etc. If the AI finds out it's profitable to trap you in a bubble with like minded people, it will promptly do so.The government has been unfair and biased in the past and continues to be so. However the recent push for age verification does not come from the government/congress/elected representatives. Instead it's big tech pushing this so they can reduce their liability because average people have started waking up. Headlines like this one https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/google-folds-in-wild-lawsuit-over-youtube-s-addictive-features/ar-AA26vHqP are the reason why they're making their move right now.With recent google actions, showing that the company is ready to lose money in order to solidify control/monopoly, shows just how much investors trust that google will benefit from this situation in the future, e.g by getting rid of all competitors by making the barrier of entry even higher than it currently is. If the government disagrees, google can just cut them off of google's services for a few days and they'll promptly reconsider.
>>109155493Yeah, but you're all going to pay to own your software and that is a very good thing.
>>109155493>Do you believe that we could reclaim the internet?You mean the web?No we cannot it's impossible at this point, the gov/corpo takeover of the web is basically complete at this point, the people and the culture that made it a great place where to learn and share things is gone replaced by monetization of content and manipulation of information.I think the only productive things we can do are archiving old stuff or the few new content that is still valuable, and just stop using it, preferable we should make our own protocol/network (or suite of), gather likeminded people and start from scratch learning from the mistakes of the past.But it still wouldn't be the same as old web even if it were successful, that was a product of its time we need to accept it, we can still build nice new things though.>The idea of creating your own persona and identity online, separate from your corporeal self, is dead.You get it anon, it used to be that there was a clear boundary between online and "irl", when that was gone and all the normalfags flooded in they brought all that bullshit that makes the real world an awful place online and now it's same shit, maybe even worse than real world.I clearly remember talking about this in 2011 with a normalfag, they wouldn't understand the boundary at all not matter how much I tried explaining, even then it was obvious this situation was going to come.
>>109155615>Internet 2.0Again internet is not web, no offense but if you don't understand the difference I wouldn't exactly trust you in fixing things.The concept of the web is retarded in the first place, the idea of a interconnected network of documents links was meant to be used for sharing academic documents not for sharing videos, hosting chats or forums, or 99% of things the web is actually used for in practice.The modern web is abusing HTTP and HTML thanks to bolted on extensions like CSS and JS for making what are in practice applications (even 4chan should really be an application), this has never worked well cause that was never the use case of the web.The whole concept of linked documents should be abandoned completely, what we should do is create specialized (but standardized) protocols for various use cases, and make applications that implements these protocols.For example there should be an imageboard protocol, a blog protocol, a chat protocol (if you can't stand IRC which already exists because this is how things just used to work in the internet before the web), etc.These protocols would be open and so would be the implementations, as you can imagine the implication is that these protocols cannot be controlled or monetized, this kills the gov/corpo model from the root.>>109156519>because you associate internet with the webExactly.There's even worse though like those people that associate internet with social media.>it's still really easy to inquire about encrypted messages by looking at metadataNo, if there is something that works well that is encryption, if you don't harden your browser, don't compartmentalize identities, don't use proxies or stay logged in accounts that's an entirely different opsec issue, but encryption was never meant to defend you from that kind of fingerprinting, there is a plethora of different solutions.
>>109155493Yes but it would be something like Gopher, i.e. it's not HTML based but something else where client-side scripts are way more transparent than current JS code, with an interface even a blonde woman could understand.
>>109156754Sell the Fediverse to meFrom what I've seen it's just social media sites
>>109155493>Do you think we could reclaim the network, or at least recreate our own?You have to start with yourself.Start hosting.Start serving.Start routing.
Bump.
>>109155493No because all of you faggots have chosen and continue to chose the algorithms over the actual human internet we used to have.>bb-b-but we're emulating the v-v-vibes!No you aren't and even if you were that doesn't matter.We're never going to go back to individual communities with distinct cultures and userbases. We warned you this world happen over 20 years ago. We warned you this would be irreversible. Go fuck yourselves all of you and stop making these fucking threads. You're decades too late.
>>109155493Create and rely on internet protocols that make centralization fundementally impractical and you're basically done.
>>109159627this is why the internet is dead, too many people like you wanting to just say nigger all the time for no reason. Tech in the forst place should have never been allowed to normies, if everything was text based and only accessible for competent people none of this shit would happen
>>109155493oh boy what’s it this time? irc server? xmpp? retro style forum? minecraft beta city build? and what’s it gonna be focused on? a vague sense that the internet is shit?ask yourself this, if you physically swap the physical cities of Oslo and Joburg does it start snowing in Joburg? Will Joburg turn into a Norwegian enclave with Norwegian language and culture?
>>109165310So no?
>>109156519ngl I got more depress reading this but it's a good reminder
there is no 'reclaiming' the internet unless the entire economy causing it to be the way it is implodes, which is not completely out of the picturethis site is the last remainder of the old internet
>>109155615I do not understand the obsession with banning javascript. For me, I feel like the issue more has to do with non-static websites.
>>109155615>Ban devices that are not displaying the website in horizontal>Ban devices with specific resolutionsand how would you do that without js retard
>>109165277the elites don’t want you to know this but there are good forums out there like https://www.datasecretslox.com/alsopart of the problem is that there’s just a lot more normie internet out there so if you have a couple Gemini servers you like and a Gemini-and-Gopher client you like like https://gmi.skyjake.fi/lagrange/ there’s all this normie pablum out there
>>109158618>> AI only needs 150 words to identify me. What does that mean for you?this is the worst thing i've ever readnot because of AI scary, but because that "test" is like sub-40 iq understanding on what they just did
>>109155493The government can barely track teenagers in their parent’s basement using a VPN. Local law enforcement are entirely powerless against the internet outside of sending warrants to site providers and asking for IPs. It’s still pretty much the wild west.
>>109155493>walled gardens>panopticon>endless ai slopits been over since 2024 or so
>>109166394They're cracking down on everything
>>109155493Gotta vote.Gotta bug your government officials/representativesGotta get active politicallyThere's no other power that can act as a counterbalance to the corporate enshitification. Small group actions are only small rebellions when the government is owned by "them".
>>109166352>slate codex remnantsHuh.
>>109166581We tried that in the 90s, 2000s and early 2010s, that's how we ended up in this situation.
>>109155493>Not in a culture war or political way, I mean from corporations and governmentsit was never yours to begin with, it was lent to you
>>109155493you have to convince normal users that these things are concerning enough problems to begin with. good luck, you can barely convince "educated" tech people half the time because the vast majority of humans are pants on head retarded.
>>109170672>that's how we ended up in this situation.I have to agree. Seems like the real solution lies somewhere in between where political involvement and a series of serious projects need to coincide and outsourcing won't be possible. If political interests were to converge artificially, the results would happen, but otherwise the democratic status quo will just persist.
web3 and ipfs is the the only answer www.5chan.app
>>109156519>>109162341>because you associate internet with the webSchools should really teach this kind of stuff, even on /g/ people have no clue, what the hell.>what we should do is create specialized (but standardized) protocols for various use cases, and make applications that implements these protocolsThat would be the perfect internet...
>>109171857unfortunately most teachers don’t know the difference between the Web and other things that go over TCP and/or UDP
>>109155493Bump for please post more cute anime images with 2000's eye style.
The internet 2.0 is Urbit.They're giving out free planets. so sign up and get some.https://tlon.io/
>>109174398>internet but with less freedom, more crapitalism, and same web cancerlol, lmao even
>>109174417you are confidently retarded and you should feel embarrassed
>>109155493The primary question to bringing back the internet is how do you bring back the trust.The old net is built on the trust that you are always talking to a human or interacting with a man made thing on the other side. How do you fix this?Even if we all went back to forums, this needs to be solved first.pic unrel
>>109174765Closed communities, like lobsters.If you want a more general protocol, see web of trust.
>>109166102static is opt-in nowadays due to sloppascript proliferation. that's why people hate it.
>>109174880Just saying closed communities is not enough, because closed communities are also doing badly right now.>Getting new users>Finding things to interact with>Getting your things out thereI think this is a more subtle problem, and I do think some form of closedness would be the aolution, but how it is implemented is the question.
>>109155493Gopher and gemini exist you know and are still very active, as for the regular web long story short no, because you will never convince these billion dollar tracking companies to stop milking the web because of muh privacy muh trust… the world doesnt work like that.Create your own protocol and outright ban javascript and co, and 90% of your problems are solved
>>109174581>bro please give me ETH for my failed project no one uses after 13 fucking years it's totally useful bro people totally use it bro its free just get a comet bro
>>109155493Just make a new site lol
>>109165310Nigger is just an easy canary to test for freedom.
>>109174918You have to accept that high trust people are gone and never coming back.I am a remnant of the golden age, still have a small group of ~50 people still hanging around on our TeamSpeak. Wanna know how many people we recruited since 2012? Two, both of which being girlfriends of existing members.There is no one left on the clear net and there is no point throwing out a lure because people like us would never bite, only drama obsessed discord niggers.That's also why we've been stuck in this endless decade+ cycle of people launching forums, minecraft servers, irc servers, etc and it always ending the same way. Same reason why people are completely unable to find real relationships.The tech isn't the issue, the platforms aren't the issue, not even the legislature is the issue. The people themselves are fundamentally fucked and still nowhere ready to admit that they have a problem never mind ready to do something about it because that would mean giving up instant gratification forever and quite frankly people are terminal heroin addicts, the arms already mostly just necrotic flesh poisoning what little remains of the body and they keep injecting.
>>109175195Its not, you believe that because retards on x the everything app told you so.Spamming NIGGERS everywhere for no reason is jeetcoded you are literally taking a digital dump on the e-street, and if you are REALLY eager to say it create your own instance and host it or just stay here and call everyone a nigger and a troon and keep your e-waste away from people trying to have civil discourse
>>109166102how do you think they make the site non-static?
>>109155493No, because they have made so many laws requiring any website with enough users MUST collect data of users and store ip traffic logs for audits otherwise they will be fined thousands to millions of dollars and be deplatformed.You will never have a popular website that respects your privacy because they literally cannot exist.
>>109175179sounds like you got filteredgood
>>109175421>w-what you d-don't w-want to be exit liquidity for me!? f-f-filtered b-bro!
>>109175228If you can't handle text on the internet, then you don't belong on the free internet. You can stay in your filterbubble media. Especially if it is just a contextless word that is in every dictionary.If you draw a line on what is allowed and not allowed you are part of the problem. You can use it to determine that YOU don't want to interact with people that go over the line you subjectively have drawn, but YOU should not decide what others can or can not say. And there should be platforms that do not have your subjectively drawn lines.
>>109175747then stay in X and 4chan and keep shitposting your life away they give you enough "freedom" to do what you want, no one is obligated to abide by YOUR definition of freedom, let the grown ups have their discussions on various topics without you shitting on their floor and spamming troons and niggers like you do here all the time
>>109175777Why don't you go back to bluesky where you came from and belong? Along with the other double digit IQ paedophiles.
>>109175777I don't have any social media accounts. My browser isn't even able to open twitter/X. But it is nice to see that people like you build their own enemy stereotype so they don't need their usual filterbubble, you one-man-echochamber.But I guess we have reached the same conclusion. You stay on your filter bubbles to better accommodate constructive conversations, and I stay on 4chan and still don't know any reasonable federated where I have more (my) freedom.
>>109175804you retarded faggot can't even read shit just self host your retarded instance where you can get to say all the slurs you want and stay away from people trying to have any constructive discussion..spiritually jeets trying to force their ways into where they aren't needed>>109175813its not even an echo chamber thing -even though i don't see any issue with that- if you want to set up any club in real life you'd like to have like minded people to drive the conversation forward.. i don't want to see a smug redditor atheist in my bible study and vice versa because we don't have any common ground and will just lead to constant back and forth with no real meaningful outcome....but any way good for you i think you got the point different settings requires different manners if you want to have anything serious
>>109175873I don't use social media you illiterate nigger.
>>109176116where did i even imply that you fucking faggot im taking generally not about you
>>109175210This made me sad anonI am a zoomer jeetIf I, or the time which created me and which I am a part of is the problem, then what? You seem to suggest that there *is* some solution but peope are simply unwilling to try, so what do you have in mind?
