>>109167648
Why just BSD-likes?

>>109167648
acme looks comfy

>>109167648
Whatever is this pic, it absulutely sucks.

So the idea of suckless is that there's no config files and if you want to change config you change source code and recompile. But that sucks.

>>109167856
No. https://suckless.org/philosophy/
>>109167793
You can talk about BSDs too, fine by me.

>>109167827
It's kind of aesthetically pleasing, the problem is acting like it's superior. Sane people don't really want to spend hours configuring a text-based interface in HolyC. These people look down on everyone else for not doing so.

>>109167941
"experienced users" are the ones actually getting work done and not being trapped in tinker hell.

>>109167962
Lurk and talk in IRC channels - ask for help in there, look at other people's setups, find dotfiles to use as inspiration, use your Google-fu and RTFM. If you have a laptop and the heat is not killing you, grab yourself a cold beverage and have fun.

>>109167997
there's probably a good reason why workstations use fedora and not HolyC window manager with sysvinit

>>109167975
Suckless users look down on normies based on principle. They have been the tech illiterate masses that have directly supported software to get more dumbed down, less efficient due to lowering standards in performance, be hundred feature monoliths because the user is too lazy to use another tool for the job, and too incompetent and lazy that they have to be served everything on a silver platter, and any additional context or advanced feature serves to disorient and frustrate them, and so it all has to be hidden away from them. Stupid and contradictory goals, all fighting for attention, because the user is incompetent and can't figure out their wants. It has to be decided by someone more informed (the developer), in a feedback loop with the user, until an equilibrium is reached between user satisfaction and long-term project health.
Everyone acts in a way to serve their own individual needs. I will not force people to stop drinking, smoking or drinking coke as a substitute for water, but I will think low of them. Acts that are done in self-harm are irrational. I choose to live in a way according to my principles that strives towards better software, even if it's a long and arduous process. Using Suckless software is making a statement about how consistent you are with your principles. If you think Webshit is garbage, and you want to be consistent, you have to stop using it if you think it's harmful.
The juice is not worth the squeeze. Yes, people can be plenty productive using bloated Electron applications, and it "gets the job done", but it's long-term harm just as eating junk food temporarily sustains you.

Greatness is never achieved by the majority. Mediocrity is the enemy of the good. The average person should be looked down upon with a scorn-like emotion.

>>109167962
have a separate computer to do shit like that, not your main one, play with it until it's as good or better than your main, then you put this on your main.

>>109168069
I just have to question the time-sink, whether it is even worth it. If you think your workflow is better, fine, but it's basically a whole other language. Genuinely what benefits would I get out of it? I feel like it's one thing to learn how to use Linux, maintain things, and another to micromanage every part of the system every time you use it. Abstraction isn't always a bad thing, I think software should strive to make peoples lives easier, by simply having sane and sensible setups that are out of your way, but leaving room for the user to configure or use something else. The problem is reaching that ground is difficult, and the burn it all down idea can be tempting. Just because it's uncomfortable, does that mean it's a bitter medicine, or just a waste? I'm undecided

>>109167648
loving the fonts OP, mind sharing them?

>>109168155
Go Mono

>>109168146
And what do you do when you meet an edge case? Maintaining a car after 2010 is a nightmare because of its complexity (I'm sure there are parts that have gotten simpler over time).
A simple system shows you all the ins and outs, and makes you figure it out. You develop an integrated understanding of your system. You know what services run on it, how they work, and how they interact with other services. A "sane default" is an erroneous concept. It's a stand-in for "familiarity". You cannot have a "sane default" that operates and looks like Windows 10 when the design of the software is by design in opposition to it. Vim is ergonomic but unfamiliar. Software design should align itself to its particular goals. Leaving aside the toy projects, most user-facing software should be ergonomic, reliable and performant. None of that is correlated to familiarity, it's just that most familiar interfaces must have a bare minimum amount of competent design to even be used in the first place. The computer should feel like an extension of your own body. It's nuanced, and it's its own field of study. Compact, information-dense graphics are in certain contexts better once the user has learned what they can ignore, which provides them instantaneous access to information with minimal or no interaction. While easy things are easy, being easy by itself has nothing to do with how good something is. If you can learn Vim motions, use a tiling/scrolling window manager, and have shortcuts bound to every key, multiple layers and even foot pedals, along with multiple monitors, and you have trained to use all of them effectively, then you will blow everyone else out of the water in productive output, because you have compacted and increased the density of actionable tasks within a timeframe. Your body will also slowly adapt over time, the patterns will crystallize, and everything that is manual will become more and more instinctual and requiring less and less effort.

>>109168279
i like this thinking
>>109167648
i run my own linux from scratch, use modified dwm because some things like window modes have no use for me, st and minimal vim, my system runs on bios and boots in 2 seconds (-bios load), i have my own init, man life is good
the good thing is i dont need to use crappy init systems i dont want to learn, instead i use kill signals and exec by path

you know something is irrelevant when it's based on C and Rustrannies haven't come after it.

>>109167648
>launch an example of suckless software
>it sucks
hmmm

>>109168347
holyc is already a meme language no need to rewrite it in rust

>>109167977
>Lurk and talk in IRC channels
which ones?

>>109168254
Tranny font

>>109168624
what?

>>109167975
>Sane people don't really want to spend hours configuring a text-based interface in HolyC
Just let people enjoy things anon
>These people look down on everyone else for not doing so
Just ignore them. Why do you care what they do with their computers anyway?

>>109167975
what the hell are you on about?

>>109168771
Read the post again. Slowly.

>>109167975
How would you know you're not an experienced user? It's a weekday and you're on an anime website.

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>>109167799
I think it has the potential to be.
There's a kind of weirdness with it, where things that seem generic aren't. I'm not sure how to describe it, other than I would run into problems where I'd deduce some behavior, just to find out it doesn't actually work that way, or there's some subtle quirkiness involved. Once you've mapped out how the program works, you realize it's a lot more rigid than you thought.

I also think it's a bit retarded about some things. It's right that keyboard-centric text editors like vim fucking suck, but it goes too far in the other direction and decides to use mouse buttons for all interaction besides typing text. Maybe keyboard + mouse inputs? Nope. All mouse. This has knock on effects with the aforementioned quirks. Dealing with commands involving spaces doesn't feel great, for example. Having real mouse integration is crucial, but not even having keyboard modifiers for mouse interaction? Come the fuck on. Also no drop down menus.

The anvil editor fixes some things (like adding syntax highlighting), but doesn't fix the interaction problems imo.
>But syntax highlighting sucks!
I don't agree, and we can leave it at that.

>>109167648
I like suckless software but I don't like their insistence on cuck licenses.

>>109169199
>Once you've mapped out how the program works, you realize it's a lot more rigid than you thought
How ?

Acme is basically as capable as your OS is. Acme basically exposes windows and buffers as 9p resource you can interact with in any language that has a porting of the 9p library (C, she'll script, lua, LISPs, haskell, go,...) or just with read/write under plan9port which iirc is handled by FUSE

In the end you write acme programs as middlewares between acme and the OS

>>109169956
Things like how commands behaved in certain contexts, how things were routed around, when something was meaningful, etc. I can't right-click on a folder in a path to navigate to the folder, for example. I remember in that navigating manpages especially didn't really work well. It's been years anon, sorry I don't remember many details.

>>109167827
ye, aa-absolutely. the size of those captions disproportionally small to the display area.

>>109167975
>configuring a text-based interface in HolyC

thats a mediocre understanding of the UI. the UI is either type-based or select-based, thats what you should learn about UI. terminal UI in GNUnix is poor because of the input that is 50% of the UI, considering importance, its 80% of the UI. user input is literally "felt" by the user, but GNUnix doesnt even have virtual keys or keycodes (0-255) documented for the keyboard (the primary input device), because it was projected to work as a server, a blackbox, where inputs arent human.

>>109167648
are you sucklessers moving to wayland, or you'd stuck with ye olde X? What's the suckless wayland compositor?

>>109170287
https://wayland.fyi

>>109170532
damn thats awesome, thanks for linking. I'd seen swc/velox before but didn't realise there was a maintained fork

>>109170287
i have no interest in using something that increases latency

>>109170532
That link is the perfect representation of a /g/tard

> Extremely vague understanding of the topic
> Riced desktop pic
> Muh bloat
> This is bad because, you know...come on


Then you have this gem

> the whole model is fundamentally different. X11 is a network-transparent unified server with window management and composting handled by clients, Wayland is not network-transparent, because it’s not 1985

Emulating a fucking line-oriented teletype for remote terminal access from 1850 (and also as a command prompt) is even more primitive

>>109171117
what's your wayland remote desktop setup like?

>>109169694
Why'd you flip it? To prevent people blocking MD-5s?

>>109170212
so what do you suggest people use instead

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>>109170532
I really dislike how every single proponent of Wayland is explicitly leftist in some way. The person porting Wayland to NetBSD (and OpenBSD) is a tranny. All the Linux DE's that push full migration to Wayland are self-identified "woke". There is literally no reason why I should know the creator of this website is a lefty just by clicking around.

And I don't want to hear "Righties made it a culture war!" because 1) You're still participating in it 2) Rightoids are largely slow moving cattle that only really Moo when provoked. They're called "Reactionary" for a reason.

>just don't care about the politics of the software. just judge it on its merits
I don't have infinite time to judge the pros and cons + potential long term impact of every protocol and new software that shows up. So if it looks like technology is being pushed by a specific group that has specific goals (whether political, corporate, or otherwise) then its natural to distrust it. Because if someone likes tech for a reason other than its merits alone, then they haven't actually done a proper pros vs cons assessment. They just use the pros as propaganda to recruit new members and ignore the cons.

>>109171874
>what do you suggest

im not in suggestion mode, im in discussion mode.

>>109167975
I think you don't understand suckless very well then. Its software for developers and sysadmins, not for casual users. DWM is an amazing tiling window manager because it has all the basic features someone would need to have a decent experience with only 2000 lines of code. That makes it quick to download and compile and trivial to tweak and maintain your own version if you so desire, but most of the time I just use plain DWM because its usually on a machine I'm using to display something, VMs, or I just want to be able to be able to xrdp/vnc/x11 forwarding on a remote machine rather than just standard ssh.

The controls and way it operates is very simple, its honestly a genius bit of software. Most of the basic changes you make are in the config.h file, which might as well be a standard config file. You only need to actually know C if you want to change how the code actually works or add features, which for DWM is WAY easier compared to just about any other tiling window manager.

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>>109168624

>>109171973
.I really dislike how every single proponent of Wayland is explicitly leftist in some way
I thought the hyprland guy wasn't. Which is probably why he wrote it in c++ and not rust.

>>109171693
you can flip a fucking pixel to avoid md5 filtering, she's just retarded

>>109173127
That's why I was asking. I probably would've changed the color of one pixel slightly

>>109173127
>>109174423
Is this even that important?

>>109174462
I was just interested why somebody would do that

>>109171973
>The person porting Wayland
>is a tranny.
Yeah fuck this guy for changing default window manager of twm to ctwm too

a whole thread about nothingburger.

>>109174592
What's wrong with ctwm?

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>>109170859
>>109171117
>>109171973
>>109172752
It's made by some zoomer communist autists and *some* troons that care about software "pureness" and minimalism, they're not hostile nor the annoying type of troons, I hanged with them some time on #derive (their linux distro) on ergo.chat 9larping and they were cool and chill. You need also to know that many autists that would make OSS software trooned out, many anons here on /g/ said they had some friends in the past that trooned out, while the OSS world and its faggotry encourages troons while repelling straight men, especially white. Man, even Sean Barrett has a gay flag in his xitter bio. Even if you go back you'd find that nerds/autists were always kind of feminine, the way they sit and talk, and how they would grow their hair and be more leftist etc, maybe femininity is a mental illness or something kek. When computer guys stopped having a full beard it started going down hill.

I can go on why they trooned out, but it will conclude to their autism plus mkultra on the media, especially anime that has many brainwashing to become a woman, and of course porn. IIRC there was a type of mkultra brainwashing technique to make sex slave and it made the subjects act like cats, interesting. The problem is people tolerating this as a normal behavior and not encouraging them to seek help, but whatever, it's so over.

>>109167648
It's sic

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>>109175325
Anon you forgot to take these

>>109175325
While i agree with you to some extent, i don't think that has anything to do with hyprland which if i recall correctly, the creator of it openly hated troons.

>>109172745
he's right, you know
>>109168624

>>109168771
https://soulellis.com/wiqt/

>>109176787
>At the core of typography, especially in how it’s been taught and practiced for centuries, is control, precision, the preservation of standards, the idea of perfect legibility, and the narrative of the lone type designer as a kind of genius author. These core values dovetail perfectly with capitalism’s logics of success. Not only are they aligned, but they are produced by and they help sustain heteronormative capitalism and the totalizing idea of universal design standards, dictated by the ideologies of Modernism. So yes, I propose that anything that appears to push back against these ideas might take us to queer places, people, and practices. We’re getting warmer.

>When I asked the question on Twitter—what is queer type—the responses were all over the place, which I expected. Several folks replied with stylistic ideas, responding with type that’s been adorned with rainbow colors or other graphic motifs. These may be important for other reasons, but it’s not style that I’m after here. Also—can something that reads as “corporate pride” ever be considered queer? I don’t think so. Queerness may be expansive, but queer values typically run counter to mainstream conformity and dominant systems.
So how is Mono a tranny font exactly?

>>109177088
you're replying to a schizo

>>109170287
dwl exists

>>109176787
thanks for nothing

"suckless" more like "fuckless" or "schizo-suck-more"

>>109167648
Im 50-70 percent suckless.
devuan linux OS.
no polkit, elogind, udisks, gvfs crapware in use.
dmenu, dwm, slock, slstatus and st built from source, very lightly patched.
lf file manager, nsxiv image viewer, zathura for pdfs and ebooks, mpv for music and video.
Editor is nano, macros can be really powerful when done right in nano.