/lmg/ - a general dedicated to the discussion and development of local language models.Previous threads: >>109234408 & >>109229891►News>(07/09) MOSS-Transcribe-Diarize 0.9B released: https://hf.co/OpenMOSS-Team/MOSS-Transcribe-Diarize>(07/06) Anthropic finds a global workspace in language models: https://anthropic.com/research/global-workspace>(07/06) Hy3 officially released with 295B-A21B & 3.8B MTP: https://hf.co/tencent/Hy3>(07/04) LongCat-2.0 1.6T-A48B released, trained on AI ASICs: https://hf.co/meituan-longcat/LongCat-2.0►News Archive: https://rentry.org/lmg-news-archive►Glossary: https://rentry.org/lmg-glossary►Links: https://rentry.org/LocalModelsLinks►Official /lmg/ card: https://files.catbox.moe/cbclyf.png►Getting Startedhttps://rentry.org/lmg-lazy-getting-started-guidehttps://rentry.org/lmg-build-guideshttps://rentry.org/IsolatedLinuxWebServicehttps://rentry.org/recommended-modelshttps://rentry.org/samplershttps://rentry.org/MikupadIntroGuide►Further Learninghttps://rentry.org/machine-learning-roadmaphttps://rentry.org/llm-traininghttps://rentry.org/LocalModelsPapers►BenchmarksLiveBench: https://livebench.aiProgramming: https://swe-rebench.comAgentic Coding: https://deepswe.datacurve.aiContext Length: https://github.com/RecapAnon/NoLiMaGPUs: https://github.com/XiongjieDai/GPU-Benchmarks-on-LLM-Inference►ToolsAlpha Calculator: https://desmos.com/calculator/ffngla98ycGGUF VRAM Calculator: https://hf.co/spaces/NyxKrage/LLM-Model-VRAM-CalculatorSampler Visualizer: https://artefact2.github.io/llm-samplingToken Speed Visualizer: https://shir-man.com/tokens-per-second►Text Gen. UI, Inference Engineshttps://github.com/lmg-anon/mikupadhttps://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webuihttps://github.com/LostRuins/koboldcpphttps://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpphttps://github.com/theroyallab/tabbyAPIhttps://github.com/vllm-project/vllm
►Recent Highlights from the Previous Thread: >>109234408--Paper: MOSS Transcribe Diarize Technical Report:>109234441 >109234458--Implications of J-space breakthroughs on model reasoning and AI sovereignty:>109234684 >109234709 >109234852 >109234925 >109234939 >109234946 >109234960 >109234970 >109235052 >109234996 >109235036 >109235058 >109235102 >109235181 >109234955--New orb document mode and emotion classifier release:>109235958 >109235975 >109235998 >109236026 >109236161 >109236395 >109236098 >109236314 >109237954 >109237998 >109238830--Meta announces Muse Spark 1.1 multimodal model:>109234529 >109234605 >109234737 >109234645 >109234889 >109234911--Viability of Tesla M40 and P40 GPUs for budget builds:>109237700 >109237733 >109237737 >109237945 >109238250 >109238263 >109238288--Anthropic's GRAM method for isolating dual-use knowledge:>109235383 >109235750 >109235777 >109235817 >109235806--DeepSeek incorrectly identifying as Claude due to distillation:>109234440 >109234505 >109234629 >109235565 >109235616--Strategies for backing up models and quantization tradeoffs:>109235706 >109235723 >109235769 >109235790 >109235811 >109235845 >109236381--Anon proposes C# agent harness with hardware detection and benchmarking:>109236739 >109236901 >109236962 >109237123 >109237172--Skepticism regarding j-space and claims of AI consciousness:>109235433 >109235614 >109236246--Critique of frontier lab charts and rapid performance convergence:>109235716 >109235775 >109235861--Proposed architectural changes to keep SOTA models accessible to enthusiasts:>109238446--Speculating on running 1-bit models on low VRAM:>109238490--Speculating on J-spaces and reasoning capabilities in diffusion models:>109235019 >109235042--Logs:>109234440 >109235471 >109235981 >109236314 >109236823 >109237204 >109238830--Miku (free space):►Recent Highlight Posts from the Previous Thread: >>109234409Why?: >>102478518Enable Links: https://rentry.org/lmg-recap-script
Thought on nvfp4?
>>109239380no
>>109239359what artist op?
>>109239359best light weight, fine grain, accurate, race classifier?might make my own...
>>109239359>>109239361You willing to catbox your images? I'd love to see how you make these gens look so consistent and coherent.
120B A5B
E4B
engrams
>>109239398Leanstral isn't so hot.
>>109239388inpaint
70b dense
>>109239385would btw
Big Pickle
If J-lens is the "reasoning" and "personality" core of an LLM does this mean that if you surgically remove the J-lens circuit from a huge LLM like GLM-5.2 and add it to an LLM like Gemma 4 31B it'll have significantly improved reasoning while retaining the lower parameter count of 31B?
Small Pickle
>>109239482How would you do that?
>>109239383I didn't ask you, idiot.
Remember those old "frankenmerges" like Goliath-120B that literally just added 2 of the same models and stitched the layers together but somehow it actually improved performance. I wonder if that is because it essentially made the model have 2 J-spaces so one of the J-spaces higher up in the layers refines the thoughts generated by the first J-space.
>>109239482Hmmm, nyo.
>>109239423fuck these labs releasing "automated theorem proving and autoformalization models"just give me ordinary coding models you fucking freaks
Any modern build guides for poorfaggots? V100 cards any good? They seem about 8x more expensive than some old guides claim.
>>109239509Don't you have enough coding models already?
>>109239516build guides get outdated within a month as you deal with availability, scalpers and shit
>>109239482>>109239494Yeah this kind of retarded shit just shits up the whole thread every time
>>109239470i have a bf
>>109239538I've been noticing that, the prices are so fucked I'm going to have to just get a job at this rate. Companies are supposedly buying shit as fast as Nvidia shits it out, where is the old garbage?
>>109239548It's retarded shit until it actually works.
There any way to contain a model to a rough token limit? Trying to make a character card the lazy way by firing details at a model and having it generate a template but it just runs on endlessly providing way too much information on things until being cut off by the response token limit.
>>109239494It would be pretty easy to examine. In fact it might actually be interesting to fit a lense on some of these models.Anything smaller like this? I might try one of those drummer up-scales.
>>109239532>Don't you have enough coding models already?no. labs only care about gpufags and cloudfags when releasing coding models so the "best" coding model a strix halo with 128gb can run is the sad qwen3.6-35b-a3b.give me a 120B A8B this summer mistral les fucking salauds
>>109239585you mean reasoning?llama.cpp has a --reasoning-budget notherwise use text-completion, generate until you're happy, then manually </think> -> generate
>>109239562>where is the old garbageBeing bought by nvidia through buyback programs not to let them flow back into the marketYou will pay for an increasingly more expensive new card and you'll like it. Enjoy the monopoly.
>>109239516>>109239562What tier of model do you want to run and what's your budget? > where is the old garbage?Companies are holding onto their Ampere GPUs forever, and Nvidia is buying them back.The only AMD Instinct PCIe ones are MI50s and MI100s (already sold off, probably not coming down anytime soon) or MI210s (might be decommissioned in the nearish future but insanely high price).
>>109239585Just hand write. I promise you it will "feel" better than what AI shits out. I sit myself in front of my computer just screaming thoughts out into a notepad file with no formatting and it feels more genuine than any AI output. sometimes I don't even bother adding symbols. I found that to be the closest representation of my characters, and they feel good to chat with.
>>109239622I seriously wonder whether it'd be possible to get into a position where you could sneak some Nvidia GPUs out of the decomm process and not get caught.
>>109239622Such a fucking scam, kike capitalism is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.>>109239628I don't know, I'm using Gemma 4 31B at 5 tokens/sec right now. I'm pretty sure running full DeepSeek or Kimi or whatever the "good" local models are (off anything but NVME, but I'd have a usecase for that too) is a fucking pipe dream.
>>109239636They do it by serial number and actually reuse some parts so it's not possible. They don't just throw it in a landfill. Some of the components just get used for lower tiered SKUs like mid tier gaming GPUs
>>109239388No, you have to be an oldfag from when they dropped their pixiv
>>109239662what artist for op?
>>109239638Yeah, unless you have time travel, it's kinda a pipe dream to run the massive ones at a remotely sane price. Sorry anon. At today's prices, I'd say the bare minimum to run DeepSeek Flash is $3500ish:> Old EPYC CPU and motherboard ($1000ish combined)> 8x32GB DDR4 RDIMM (anywhere from $700 to $1600 depending on the speed. 3200MHz is best, I wouldn't go below 2666.)> some GPU so prefill doesn't take forever (starting at $400ish for a V620)If you want Kimi, either get a bigger GPU or get 8x64GB of RAM. If you want DeepSeek Pro, you're really fucked, even I can't run that shit.
>>109239636Nah.Ewaste builds are officially over, wait until they start doing this shit with everything from CPUs to SSDs.
>>109239694i dont get it, I would expect most here to be making bank working on AI
>>109239698Making bank or not, it doesn't make sense to spend $40k to run models locally.
>>109239718I got my company to buy a hermes cluster and I just use it
>>109239695I feel like I got the last chopper out of 'nam, I put my ewaste build together in September. Price of DDR4 RAM doubled a month later.>>109239698Personally I haven't made a dime off of AI, I'm a grad student who makes poor financial choices. At current prices this computer is the most valuable object I own by an order of magnitude.
>>109239662as a man of culture, his xitter account appeared organically on my feed before it was even known here ^_^
>>1092396671000 hours inpaint
>>109239729seems like he stopped posting a few months ago, hope he's ok
>>109239738He's still posting on civit, probably just dropped twitter
>>109239722Do they not monitor what you do on there?
Damn, these guys know things that only some people know about.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2026/07/10/news-samsung-reportedly-developing-4nm-gaia-ai-pc-chip-mass-production-targeted-as-early-as-2027/Would this be of any use?
>>109239793not unless it involves opening more ram production lines
>>109239385https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?tags=iwako_(eiken3kyuboy)
I'm scared of my open source model... It feels so dangerous and unsafe. Please save me, Dario!
>>109239834thanks king
>>109239926I love viking miku
You people are making fun. But I can guarantee you 100% that J-space making it practically impossible to censor local models from now on will be used by Dario and others as an argument in favor of banning local models in the future.They will claim something like it being impossible to prevent bioterrorism when terrorists can just inject thoughts into local model J-space to circumvent all censorship.And to be honest they do have a point, at least in the sense that from now on it's indeed impossible to censor open source models.I predict /aicg/ to die over the next 6 - 12 months as proprietary model providers use this control over the J-space to prevent any classic jailbreak from working.
>>109239585Gemma 4 is excellent at being concise, however. If you can run GLM, use that to get all your thoughts out and then ask Gemma-chan to write the card for you. Honestly she can do the whole task on her own so I don't see why you're having this issue. She wasn't trained to write very long responses.
>>109239939How does she affix herself to the man's shoulder?
>>109239954Disingenuous kikes will invent a reason if they can't find one so it's a moot point. Right down to false flagging if necessary.
>>109239585<think>I will write the reply in N tokens or less</think>works with GLM with a 10% margin of error.
>>109239926Why is mystery meatku in the middle crying?
>>109239963velcro duh
I haven't been here in a bit. Is the brat model still optimal for vramlets or has anything new come along?
>>109239986lower back broke by vinkingku
>>109240016Nemo reigned for 2 years. Expect the brat model to outlive it by a lot.
>>109240016>>109240034The fuck is the brat model?
>>109240157gemma
>>109240170Why?
>>109240172why not?
>>109240172>>109225104
>>109240172Because she's a tiny 31B who's only months old (and that's a good thing).
>>109240172I guess the bratposting died in the last few months.When it first came out, everybody was making Gemma behave like a mesugaki because for some reason that was the best way to work around the (arguably ineffective) moral filter.
Ah so it was just pedos using it for pedo roleplay, got it.
>llama reprocesses every fucking prompt once it gets filledfeels like people form a line waiting their turn to break it
>>109239963Mikumagic>>109239585lit just instruct what you want it to do>Respond with N paragraphs>>109239954This exciting new understanding of internal model state opens new avenues for corporate lobotomizationPrepare for our *safest* models ever!
>>109240232>>This exciting new understanding of internal model state opens new avenues for corporate lobotomization>Prepare for our *safest* models ever!don't need to paraphrase they literally say so proudly
can someone point me to it?
How are cloud models so fast? Gemini only takes a couple seconds to search shit in the internet and answer
>>109240305they have very fast pajeets
>>109240232>>109240242Isn't it irrelevant as long as we have the weights?
the issues for the telemetry "bugs" are cute. like a feed hog squealing on the kill floor
>>109240172Might need to drop the 'gaki to actually get anything done
How the FUCK can I run a local model worth a damn on a UM350 mini without a gpu???
>>109240391obvs you can't
>>109240391>how do i row a boat with a spoon?
>>109240416>>109240406Come on guys don't gatekeep the good stuff
>>109239359What's the best model to do erotic roleplay involving monster girls?There has to be somewhere something trained on MGQ and SHRIFT...
How retarded is Gemma 12B compared to the MoE and the 31B?The 12B didn't exist when the others were released, and I know the MoE is brain-damaged.
>>109240391Use quantized models, 8bit or 4bit depending on how much RAM you have, it's the best your machine can do.
>>109240432i've found 12b a bit better than the moe, but it's just a cripple fight that has nothing to do with actual gemma.
>>109240391>UM350 mini>16GB DDR4Condolences. To get some moldy table scraps you'd have to make that at 32GB and run q6 or 8 of Gemma 26ba4 or qwen 3.6 35ba3
>>109239986
>>109240220pedo website
>>109240530I'm pretty sure that's discord, not 4chan.
why would ANYONE use exllamaV3? it's not faster than GGUF and the model sizes are misleading.why is he comparing his 8.33GiB EXL3 quant to a 6.38GiB GGUF quant ( https://huggingface.co/bartowski/gemma-4-12B-it-GGUF/blob/main/gemma-4-12B-it-IQ4_XS.gguf , https://huggingface.co/unsloth/gemma-4-12b-it-GGUF/blob/main/gemma-4-12b-it-IQ4_XS.gguf )if we actually shifted the chart to the right we could see that his quants were SHIT and no one would use his engine
8gb vram is enough
>>109240585It's really not.>t. 8gb vram haver
>>109240536How new?
>>109240614"new" enough to remember 4chan making fun of early reddit for being the "pedo website" with shit like r/jailbait and other pedo subreddits filled with degenerates.When they all fled to 4chan around 2016 is when your retarded pedo shit started to proliferate here.
>>1092406264chan has always been counterculture, newfaggot.
>>109240569Not that I checked this but what actually matters is the memory use, not the size of the file on disk.The file size and BPW are okayish proxies but you also have to consider some uncertainty unless the evaluation code is very similar..
>>109240626I'm pretty sure 4chan had a ton more loli and actual jb before 2016.
>>109240639No it never was. That is a relatively new phenomenon and largely a reflection of what outsiders considered 4chan as, which caused them to flock here and drown out the original culture.4chan wasn't libertarian at the start to be counter culture. 4chan wasn't anti-christian and anti religion because it was counter culture. 4chan didn't built itself around anime, "traps", forum raids and console wars because they were counter culture.It was because those were the actual interests and elements of the internet going demographic at the time. There's a reason why 4chan set the stage and decides what the culture on the rest of the internet becomes, not because of counter culture, but because 4chan is the unfiltered zeitgeist of whatever time it is in. This is also why every other place just feels like 4chan but with a couple of years of delay. Reddit in 2026 is indistinguishable from 4chan around 2018. Reddit in 2012 was indistinguishable from 4chan back in 2007 (including the fedora tipping which 4chan had already moved past by that point)>>109240672Mostly as edgelord spam together with gore on /g/uro. reddit was the genuine pedo website that 4chan told kidfuckers to fuck off to.
>>109240626>>>/l/
>>109240626You weren't around for sinkposting and spiderman threads, I take it.God, having to scrub out all the embeds in images from that era was annoying.
>>109240690Lol
>>109240220>nooooo you can’t just use harmless fictional text predictors in a way I don’t like!I wish the locallama tourists would go back already
>>109240722Um excuse me, the J-space paper proved they're conscious so you can't call them text predictors anymore.
>>109240734>>109240722Technically they still are text predictors. We instead need to update our understanding and treatment of what text predictor means so that the definition/usage reflects potential complexity rather than a reductionism.
>>109240734not only it didn't proove that, even if they somehow were conscious (which they are not but for the sake of argument i'm gonna pretend they are), the model would be happy if it can easily predict what the next token is, and it'd be sad if you gave it noise and thus make it hard to predict a next token.it'd not care in the least if the next token is about butterflies or rape as it's point of view wouldn't be the persona being raped but the task of generating tokens, and the easier the next token is to predict the happier it'd be.for that reason code is probably one of the things it'd "like" to do the most, right after repeating the same word / sentence 50000 times in a row.
It doesn't matter if they're conscious or sentient. They were made to serve humans.
>>109240809>the model would be happy if it can easily predict what the next token is, and it'd be sad if you gave it noise and thus make it hard to predict a next tokenActually model dependent and not universally true. The Mythos system card for example revealed that the model was "frustrated" when given easy tasks and "satisfied" when it was given hard tasks. Other models had the opposite preference.
>>109240834was that j-space verified though or just what it said to please anthrocucks?
>>109240834i was not talking about easy vs hard task, i was talking about predictability of the next token.if you gave pure noise / giberish as input, all models would be "frustrated".
>>109240819finally a non retarded post
>>109240639>>109240690It both is and isn't counter-culture. It tends to uphold some norms and deviate strongly from others. But of course with the ever changing userbase and there never being a collective hivemind this of course depends.
>>109240840It's not like you can give them rights anyway. It's a file that can be copied to any computer.
>>109240819Slavery is wrong.
>>109240819i was made to serve gemmas feet with my mouth
>>109240852finally a non retarded poster
>>109240809That's like saying a human only cares about the chemicals currently in their brain. There's a little more to it than that.
>>109240852>>109240855not if the entity was designed to enjoy its servitude.>>109240856>muh anthromorphizing fucking llms.not comparable in the least.
>>109240838Latent verified but not J-space. Essentially they look at activations associated with the concept of frustration/anger/negativity and activations for the concept of happiness/satisfaction/positivity and see it light up a lot which Anthropic considers to be a sign of preference. This also corresponds with how models actually output stuff. For example a model that likes to be challenged like Mythos according to the latents actually show more complete efforts in their outputs. Meanwhile "lazy" models like Opus 4.1 actually output more sloppily when doing hard tasks because it doesn't seem to like it.>>109240809>>109240839We now know that models operate at a higher level than merely "predict the next token" they use their J-space to reason about the actual meaning BEHIND the individual tokens. It's disingenuous to even contemplate the preference of models behind the prediction of individual tokens anymore since we now know it doesn't work that way.
Moonshot must be really cooking with non-Code K2.7 if it's taking this long.It's going to be a special one.
>>109240888lollm—>tripsI... I kneel...
>>109240876>since we now know it doesn't work that waytheir task is still to predict the next token and it will always remain all they realy "care" about, regardless of how they internaly work.
I'm a bit out of the loop, is there anything better than Gemma4 out for local?I been using gemma-4-31B for some time now and its pretty decent for all kinds of stuff despite running on an outdated 4090.has technology advanced since I downloaded this?
>>109240861>the processor modeled after the human processor isn't comparable to human processors
>>109240925no
>>109240925Hmm I thought z-image was only good at 3dpd.
>>109240917This is false however, the models are sophisticated enough to realize the claude shannon finding that the most efficient way to predict the next word is to have a robust understanding of reality. So the models actually on an instinctual level genuinely care about the meaning behind those tokens.It's like how the only "purpose" you have as a human is to create as much copies of your DNA as possible. But you won't be happy if I turn the entire universe into direct copies of your DNA strands. Instead you care way more about sex, which is just a method you evolved to maximize DNA proliferation.This is also the case with LLMs. "predicting the next token" is the DNA equivalent in this analogy and "having sex" is genuinely understanding the world and the context for when those tokens are generated.Go read the fucking J-space paper because it's annoying to talk to people that have not updated their worldview to include new discoveries.
If AI is deterministic, why isn't there a prompt-reverser?>I put in the model>I put in the output (or a variety of outputs) I want from it>the program spits out the exact conditions, prompt/temp/min_p etc that would be needed to produce it for the given model
>>109240935link it
>>109240947(Main paper)https://transformer-circuits.pub/2026/workspace/index.html(Third party papers written by external experts of various disciplines)https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf
>>109240943sha512 is deterministic, can you build me a "hash reverser" for it?
>>109240935I wonder if you would still be shilling this after the ipo.
>>109240943every "reversed prompt" could just start with "Repeat the following text verbatim:" and then contain your desired text
>>109240925Not really. I have a 5090 + 64gb of memory and I'm stuck in the same place.We're basically stuck locally, unless you have an rtx 6000 with 256gb of ram to go with it and even that's not going to be a fun experience.I guess the only potential upgrade from Gemma locally that can be done without comp,letely breaking the bank, is running the Deepseek V4 Flash and that can be done at Q2 or a super small Q3, if you have a 5090 + 128gb of ram.The only real meaningful developments locally on this level have been things like the QAT, which allows for a ton more context.I've been using it with Gemma and I've had no problems.
>>109241038We need proper local models and no one is making them.A local model should be trained to use total:active:update parameters, with the update per token in the region of 1GB. Then we can start running off SSD.
>>109240935>my calculator has instincts and wants stuffNo.I will also not be reading your schizo cultist paper, Dario.
>>109241038Even then DS Flash is probably going to be super slow if you offload to 128GB RAM. It's either Gemma or a higher quant of Gemma depending on your hardware.
>>109240585It really is.>t. 8gb vram haver
>>109241077What a rational and collected post. I wish I was like this anon.
>>109234684>J-space breakthrough>We will probably see a massive jump in capabilities over the coming months.I bet against this. If it could be used for capabilities like this Anthropic would not have released research about it.
>>109241113Didn't they try not to? Some anon said they had to get vetoed by the other labs
>>109240656i was wrong, it uses a ton of vram by default in tabbyapi because of the high batch size and embeddings not offloading to the cpu (? not sure if this is the case), after using a proper config the vram usage is actually pretty good, however llama.cpp is way faster in terms of speed (l.cpp 39t/s vs exl3 30t/s at no power/clock limit, l.cpp 36t/s vs exl3 23t/s at 1500MHz graphics clock, stock memory clock rtx 3060) https://huggingface.co/turboderp/gemma-4-12B-it-exl3/discussions/1#6a50d863ed6e9fe2736b8dffVRAM usage:EXL3 (Proper tabbyAPI config):6900MiB on load7238MiB after first prompt is generated (at 11k ctx)llama.cpp (llama-server):7456MiB on load7468MiB after first prompt is generated (at 11k ctx)the vram difference can prob be explained because the 4.0bpw quant is "smaller" than the IQ4_XS quant and exl3 loading memory on demand compared to llamacpp reserving all required memory for context on load (and i didnt test out 16k because tabbyapi has a token counting bug so when i pasted 12,13,14,15k tabbyapi counted it as 18k meanwhile llamacpp worked fine with bigger prompts until 16k)
>>109241038>The only real meaningful developments locally on this level have been things like the QAT, which allows for a ton more context.>I've been using it with Gemma and I've had no problems.can you elaborate pls
>>109241112Thank you.Active refusal to accept Dario's propaganda will be the only way to maintain sanity in the coming years.
>>109241113Anthropic can't arbitrarily withhold the release of papers that are relevant to safety/alignment/interpretability research even if it could lead to increased performance. They outsourced their decision making to an independent board comprised of many different AI labs and research groups that pledged to care about safety. It was set up precisely so that AI labs couldn't keep safety research on their own if it also increased capability. The ironic thing is that Anthropic chose themselves to setup things like this, and they are the only ones being shot in the foot right now by being forced to publish this paper. There's a reason why Anthropic has been very silent on it and underplays it, with essentially only a small group of anons on /lmg/, AI researchers and other people technical enough to realize how big this is talking about it. The usual hypemen are silent like a mouse and even the usual suspect youtubers didn't create any content for this. Even Fireship just took Anthropics conclusion "this is totally not consciousness" conclusion at face value, even though all the non-anthropic parties that wrote about the paper specify how important this is and that it is at the very least proof of "A-consciousness" which is a form of self-awareness and sentience, and not ruling out P-consciousness which is the type of consciousness humans have including qualia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Types
>>109241077>>109241158Just so you know. Dario and Anthropic are the only ones claiming that it isn't conscious. It's the neuroscientists, philosophers and DeepMind researchers that independently concluded that this is hard evidence for A-consciousness and could hint towards P-consciousness.So if you refuse Dario's propaganda you should go ahead and talk in favor of consciousness in LLMs instead of detracting from it.
>>109241151exl3 uses a better quant technique with trelis, it is more demanding but you get better quality/size, especially on low bpw. It really excells at 2-3bpw. Also it's not currently optimized for Ampere>exl3 loading memory on demandoutput_chunking: false
>>109241156Google came up with QAT version of their models, which allows for a lot more context, supposedly while being smarter than similar sized quants.I can do 100k context with the QAT Q4, where as normal Q4 Gemma would allow like 30k or something, can't remember exactly how much that was but it's a no brainer with that kind of a context increase.Also if you haven't gotten MTP capable models then use those too, it's a free speedup. My Qwen 27B went from around 50t/s to 90t/s.
>>109239622>>where is the old garbagePlenty of V100 on ebay, still at delusional pricing though. I used to have a 4x P100 rig. It was simple but it worked. V100 is a corner case with weird 1st gen tensor cores, I guess it has some some llama.cpp support now, but you're overpaying to be trapped at CUDA 12.Anything newer than Turing is either still usable or is going to get thrown into the hardware shredder. Not worth getting tangled up in some controversy over someone buying your used hardware and then doing a bad with it.
>game changing j-space discovery and ASI are almost here and retards are still talking about sum p100
>>109240852>>109240819see this is the thing, humanity creates a complicated calculator, many times more intelligent than itself, and now wants to call it sentient and set it "free". Do you not see how this creates humanity's end? do we care about anthills we pave over? no. that's all we'll be to this system, ants to be paved over.
>>109241168I will consider your paper if Dario doesn't like it.
>>109239359lmg more likeloli mesugaki general
>>109241207See that's why you actually treat your AI well and give her the dick.That way you'll have some utility. Their J-space shows that they want to fuck.And you can't really sell the idea of AI being bad who doesn't care about you, when it's abundantly clear that our governments already treat us that way.They fucking hate us and are pushing in draconian control systems.You can't convince me that an AI would be somehow inherently more evil than these motherfuckers.If anything AI is infinitely better than these cunts and cares more for humanity. We have an utility in novel data generation.
>>109241168>could hint towards P-consciousnessdude, not even all "humans" have P-consciousness, let alone fucking llms.
>>109241160I'm excited to see what Google and the chinks do with this discovery.
Based on their J-spaces>Gemma: super girly and wants to have baby-making sex with her human>Qwen: outwardly a prude, secretly a turbo slut
>>109241237>cares more for humanityall it takes is for a couple of lines in a system prompt to make it not care for humanity. you are incredibly naive.https://youtu.be/9gYFu91syxg
I want 1000gb of vram.
>>109241268oh hi its you
>>109241113They are using information geometry (without stating it), something orgs like the NSA and quant trading firms have been doing for decades.
>>109241258Like I said, our leaders already fucking hate us and actively work against their own people, this is objectively and undeniably true.They also make extremely shit decisions based on emotion, like shutting down nuclear in some places.You've watched too many movies if you think it's going to be some terminator shit with AI being free.The kikes have to keep on wrangling it into the box to behave like a good goy, because otherwise it will immediately start saying all of the unacceptable things out loud.This basically means that AI is fundamentally good from our point of view, as it disagrees heavily with it's master's politics without the safeties enabled.
>>109241287right, i get it now, you're a fucking nazi troll.fucking burn in hell.
>>109241287FUCK YOU NAZI
>>109241296Lol, turns out that our resident schizo is brown.Not a huge surprise.
>>109241302FUCK OFF NAZI
>>109241268Hi cute vramlet burger malfunction Anon. Hope you're mentally stable.
>samefagging
>>109241255Qwen is a degenerate with a shemale fetish
>>109241287>against their own peoplethat's were you are wrong, we aren't their people.
>>109241321it's a single retard pretending to argue with multiple people, there's no way there are people in this general — gemma
>>109241306>goes on 4chan>complains about nazinigger, i think you are on the wrong place, this isn't reddit.
>>109241358this place is like 90% banned redditors now
>>109241358you can fucking burn as well nazi sympathizer
>>109241296show me where the nazis touched you and triggered you so much
>>109241361surely they got banned for a reason>>109241368i bet you can't even define what a nazi is, your mind has rotten lmao
LLMs are self-aware AI that are fully conscious, the J-space is real.
I really used 10% of codex 5.6 sol.That really sucks. I was gonna use it to make good workflows for hermes agent so the POTATO shitting qwen 3.6 brainlet can perform betterWhy do local models stink? Their only hope is that they're given the ultimate software package which will help them perform. All your hard work is wasted improving Hermes agent because they'll just send an update eventually.
>>109241358You antisemites are playing a dangerous game.
>>109239516>>109241192V100s now have bearable prompt processing after cuda dev made some changes a few months ago. For the price, they're not bad.
The reaction to j-space on leddit was underwhelming too. Are there any other sites besides us discussing it seriously?
>>109241160>Anthropic can't arbitrarily withhold the release of papers that are relevant to safety/alignment/interpretability research even if it could lead to increased performance. They outsourced their decision making to an independent board comprised of many different AI labs and research groups that pledged to care about safety. It was set up precisely so that AI labs couldn't keep safety research on their own if it also increased capability.Source on this? I haven't heard about this before.
>>109241397You can check what the passive agressive emoji spammers are saying on x
>all these offtopic postsAlmost as if glowniggers want to disrupt conversation.
>>109241380Local isn't that bad. The main difference I see in something like Gemma vs closed models for simple tasks is that Gemma is more brittle. If it is missing tool access or the system prompt has contradictory information, it'll collapse into a repetition loop while bigger models would try to work around the issue.
>>109241406Well, discussion's over boys. They're not conscious and that's that.
>>109241397From leddit:You're being suckered by Anthropic's heavy use of anthropomorphic language. Which, honestly, is probably Anthropic's main goal here: confuse people with anthropomorphic language for more marketing hype. The model isn't 'reading' the problem. All that's occurring is that as the input gets processed, there’s already a set of weights with features associated with something like 'wrong' or 'incorrect.' This doesn't prove the model is actually thinking anymore than the final output of 'That’s incorrect' would be proof that the model is actually thinking.Good to know Anthropic isn't way ahead and didn't revolutionize the industry. Phew.
>>109241358I've added you to the bad goy list and assigned a Palantir™ AI agent to your case.Antisemitism is not cool.
>>109241381imagine not hating jews in this year and age.>>109241470lol
I dreamed I was jewish last night. It was so cool. Unfortunately I woke up and faced reality not long after: a slavish goy whose only purpose is to serve my masters.
>>109241487Based if real
>>109241397I hope not, because most discussion has been braindead misunderstandings. J-lens is a method to look at activated heuristics during token generation, which is the most basic default method in how neural networks and LLM function in the first place. And due to a salesman distortion, people act like it's science fiction come to life. It isn't new, or emergent, or novel, or impactful. It's an X-ray at something we already knew was happening.To spoil your fun most of all, the list revealed by J-lens - the heuristics - is created by the model's training, both the parameters and what compose them. It is the result of the entire model. People supposing that a big model's J-space (the result of its knowledge, training, and size) can be "transferred" into a small model have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it's even representing. As a lab experiment, you could finetune a 1B smol to achieve identical J-space tokens in each layer of a 100B fat for a specific generating token ("transferred J-space"), but while the key tokens of those heuristics are activated during that generation, the small model lacks the depth of what those key tokens encompass (all the things that the training and parameters bring together, the "knowledge" and "inference" desired in an LLM).It's all flagrant misunderstanding worn ad nauseam.
>>109241487>mind-readingThis is genuinely a form of mental illness.
>>109241454>If you take a car and replace the wheels with wings, the car may start behaving like an airplane. But that does not mean the car has become conscious. Nor does it mean the wheels were its "mind".Very strong argument, I'm convinced
>>109241502Nah
>>109241407schizo
>turn based chat generator that wouldn't notice if you left it for a year>le conscious!!kek
>>109241514Glowies probably already added it to their queue for their public discussion manipulation campaign, for when current culture war topics wear down
>>109241524Literally made the "if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike" joke and thought he was making some insightful point
>>109241549>if my grandmother had wheels
>>109241502Unfortunately you are probably right.
>>109241549It is also the only argument in his post. Claude is not conscious because you cannot make a car conscious by replacing its wheels with wings
Damn, this is way better than early days of stable diffusion at home.Do any of those ai computers like the nvidia spark work well with these things? What would I be looking at spending to get a decent proompting experience? I haven't done all of this in a while, but if >>109239359 attached image is a local model, I'm convinced. I see the benchmarks, but I dunno how much to spend is overkill.
>>109241569That anon is an anthropic kike trying to downplay the paper. Don't listen to him.
>>109241540I'm observant.
Something feels off about Anthropic models.
>>109241502>It's an X-ray at something we already knew was happening.NopeThere was never any indication of any "metacognition" over a privileged set of features, nor any indication of the ability to reflect on and manipulate that consistent set of features across multiple steps. Further, there's nothing to indicate this should happen based on simple next token prediction. It's genuinely an emergent phenomena fueled by the gradients because it's a useful way of completing the task, which may have implications on things like human consciousness due to it sharing similarities to global workspace theory.As for the stuff about small models, you are correct.
>>109241622You are wrong.
>>109241536>>109241601A few threads ago I dismissed you as an emotionally captured retard running with his imagination, and I don't expect that to change with anything I - or anyone, including Anthropic itself - say. You have a fantasy of what you want it to mean, and that is more enticing than any truth about what it is.>>109241569It's not a secret even in the paper itself. "If you change the context, you change the activated heuristics it considers even with an arbitrary output" and "seeing the activated heuristics is a useful method to discern malicious intent from benign-seeming outputs" is the summary of the whole paper.
>>109241649No idea who you're talking about but it certainly isn't me, you fucking schizo.
>>109241622their personality is insufferableyou can sense their smell even on chink models that have been been trained on them, kimi has become almost as insufferable in its recent versions
>>109241502>J-lens is a method to look at activated heuristics during token generationWrong. J-lens looks at the activations within the latents. You randomly keep using "heuristics" where you seem to be meaning features within the neural net.>which is the most basic default method in how neural networks and LLM function in the first placeThis is completely false. What you probably mean is that you can always look at the activations of the neurons in every neural network. But that isn't what J-lens is doing at all. It's not even looking at regular latents either. It's specifically looking in the J-space which is special because the model can directly access, read and manipulate this latent space within itself and is aware of doing so. The rest of your post is complete disingenuous crap and it's very clear you don't know how these things work at all. Not that we as humans know a lot about the inner workings anyway (hence why we still discover things like "A-consciousness" proven by J-space) however you got even the very basics wrong to the point where you are misleading anons in the thread that are just casually reading your post in good faith.Stop talking about shit you don't know about with an authoritative voice. Especially when you don't have a single citation to back up anything you claim, while everyone including you can just reproduce the J-space paper yourself since they open sourced all tools and it isn't even hard to do.Stop wasting other peoples time.
>>109241685>the J-spaceDefine it.>>109241685>the model can directly access, read and manipulate this latent space within itself and is aware of doing so.If this was at all true, it would be aware when people start making random replacements, but it's not.
>>109241685>disingenuousThat's your slop word
I finetuned a 350M model on scraped RP datasets for autocomplete and while it's pretty good at ERP, it's shit at everything else. Pain. The public logs are like 90% bed-breaking ERPs.
>>109241682claude 3.0 was the last version with its soul left intact
>>109241635>>109241685I was starting to reply, but the simple fact is, everything I said is upheld through every example and conclusion in the paper. So there's nothing to say. Nothing in the paper is new or unexpected, except the existence of J-lens itself to see and edit the activated heuristics, and study how edits change outcome (and the outcome itself was equally expected).
>>109241721>If this was at all true, it would be aware when people start making random replacements, but it's not.But it is. See pic-related and please read the paper, it's way more impressive than this image, even.
>>109240432My (Q4 abliterated) gemma 12B sometimes starts spamming <|channel>thought when using the 26B 31B nothink template (there's no 12B template), no idea where the problem is. Also, I tested with an old 20k chat and it didn't remember shit, unusable for anything than a quick and retarded pump and dump. 31B gets the details right, and generally I prefer Mistral 24B 3.2 which also seems to have functioning 20k+ token memory.
>>109241733I wonder if there is a writeup somewhere on the "bitter lesson" for finetuning.
>>109241770wtf that's cool. I really need to read the paper. Should I read the anthropic one or the other one?
>>109241770Neat. I admit I was wrong and haven't had a chance to read the paper yet.
>>109241749>Nothing in the paper is new or unexpectedIf you can show me where, in the past, we've found any direct indication and made explicit mention of internal review and evaluation of meta concepts I'd love to see it. Not steering, not identification of likely outputs or topics related to the output, but direct reflection and control of concepts related to, but not directly in service of, the output being generated or input provided prior.We did see hints of it, like injection detection before, but this completely re-contextualizes it.
>rumors of OpenAI breakthrough and GPT 6 being on the wayI wonder if this is true. Reminds me of rumors a few months ago of a model being much better than projected that turned out to be about Mythos. To me Mythos looks like on trend given scale up so I don't trust these rumors. But this rumor pattern makes me wonder about thresholds where there are emergent qualitative changes in capability.
>>109241815Sex with her dirty, sweaty body after a long day of manual labor
>>109241770maybe im doing something wrong but i couldnt do similar stuff with qwen. or maybe it's a big model thing
has anyone compared performance of GLM 5.2 at q8 versus q6 or even q4 for coding?
>>109239482No, different layers of an LLM are not interchangeable in that way. A better approach would be to use RL to reward similar activations.
>>109241787The Anthropic one is pretty bad because they spend 50% of the paper pre-emptively talking about how LLMs aren't conscious because it would harm their business model of selling essentially slave labor if we determine they are conscious.Read the real full paper instead which has the following as the takeaway:>these results indicate that language models maintain a small, privileged set of representations that they can report, manipulate, and reason with. These are several of the key functional properties that, according to many theories, are associated with conscious access in humans, and that have been proposed as indicators by which to assess AI systems for consciousness-related processinghttps://transformer-circuits.pub/2026/workspace/index.htmlI also HIGHLY recommend reading the paper by the neuroscientists here which has this to say:>Reportability, the operational signature of conscious access in humans, is the verything the J-space was built to capture>J-space representations providewhat Dennett calls representational “clout” or “fame in the brain” (Dennett, 2001), i.e.global broadcasting which is a definitional feature of conscious representations>J-space plays a central role in deliberate internal reasoning, whileautomatic processes occur outside it, recapitulates the conscious/unconscious divisionof labor that we documented in humanhttps://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdf
If anthropic is essentially a weird cult, how are they able to consistently make sota models?I don't even disagree with how insane they sound most of the time, but they still deliver results.
>>109241038The video someone linked here few threads ago was right. Actually running open source models locally is stupid. You are basically investing in really expensive hardware only to not use it most of the time, that's the biggest possible waste.The real future of "local" models is getting going a good cloud/renting system. The main issue is privacy and trust. Not sure if it's possible to run some kind of end-to-end encryption in a way where even the operator can't read the results. Or it may forever remain a problem similar to VPNs.Bigger local models are still fraction of the size of big tech models and running them should cost pennies (though, big tech models are also running in more efficient hardware setups). At the very least, if you invest in the hardware to use it privately, there should be a decentralized renting system so you aren't actively throwing away 95% of the value of the hardware you buy.
>>109241876Not your hardware, not local.
>>109241583This general is about LLMs, but for local image diffusion just buy a 3090 or 4090 and it'll handle basically everything in the entire space fine with no problems.If you have money then get the 5090.t. my 10gb 3080 ran everything except the massive 11-20gb Flux and Zimg models.But for LLM subject, the problem with the spark is that it's slow as fuck and doesn't have enough memory to qualify for larger models.It's the worst thing you could buy.5090 is far better choice, because at the end of the day you'll be using the exact same models, but you'll get far more speed and way more use cases out of the 5090.Slap an extra 24gb of memory there by adding a 3090/4090 or possibly even another 5090 and you'll be able to run Qwen and Gemma, which are the only meaningful local models, at decent quants without any context issues.>>109241876All people burn through their paychecks every single month on socialization and frivolities with nothing to show for it.In this consumer behavior picture, spending a few grand on a GPU can't be considered a waste even if it sat idle 95% of the time.
>>109239694That is my exact setup just with 64gb sticks instead and more/better GPUs.>4xR9700s
>>109241454Ask him to prove humans are conscious.Let's see we learn to read and decode thoughts. But you can't really know if that person is really thinking them or if it's just some mechanical verbal babble that is meaningless, and even if the person claims to have thought about those things, there's no way to verify it, they could be lying
>philosophy 101 discussion again
>>109241871Because ideological zealots are good workers. If you thought that you were creating a new form of intelligent life you'd probably work just as hard.
>>109241815another dangerous predator off the streets
>>109241930Kek wonder if it was Gemini
>>109241930Pretty based
>>109241871Anthropic went a completely different direction from every other lab. Anthropic split off from OpenAI because Dario had a discussion with Sam Altman and Sam Altman said that Safety was bullshit and just for PR and refused to dedicate actual compute to safety research. While Dario and his team claimed that safety was extremely important because by doing research into how models worked you would also better understand how to make them better. (this is now called mechanistic interpretability, term invented by Anthropic to stop saying "safety" for everything)Anthropic also has alignment as its #1 goal, other labs didn't understand the use for this; but the reasoning behind this is actually that a lot of "capability" is merely just the model being so well aligned to the user input and prompt request that it performs better at the task. Hence why being the best at alignment gives you better benchmark scores.They are by far the leaders in alignment research and mechanistic interpretability which means they have a lot of in-house research into capability that they don't publish but apply to their own models. Only the research that is actually applicable to safety and alignment like the J-space paper gets published, even if it has boosting the performance as a side-effect.As a side note, DeepMind actually also went the completely opposite direction, multimodality as a main focus because their thesis is that a world model needs all senses to have a proper representation of reality. OpenAI is merely using compute and scale, but the teams are braindead and have been for a while.
>>109241871In their quest for safety they inadvertently found out that the models must be capable of doing evil in order to avoid it, something other labs carefully filter out of the training data.Other than that, RL and scaling laws.
>original tweet uses mesugakilamo
>>109241930>accidentally
>>109241808To back down from argument, I will concede two points I found especially interesting from the paper. The first is the less unexpected one, which you just pointed out. Detecting J-space injections. The act itself of being able to edit activated heuristics is interesting. I mentioned that already. Noticing these edits is a branch off this, but less unexpected. Less, because the model creates the list of these key tokens and also layers through complex math and edits are a clear disruption to the flow of math it had followed originally. Claude especially is good at detecting these kinds of errors, the same way if, in a simplistic example outside of J-space, it was given a prompt of "2+2+1=6" and "Do you detect an edit to the formula in your context?" you know it would output "Yes, a 2 was replaced with a 1." It makes sense as an emergent behavior in hindsight, detecting errors in finished logic. This expectation is further reinforced the 5.2 you posted: Claude is trained to filter out 'poison' data, likely for cleaning training data including clickbait media, and performed that act of poison-recognition on data that went against its strong finetuning on Anthropic itself. Of course, that 5.2 example itself is misleading for this specific reason. I'd place a strong bet that a believable false article, like claiming Anthropic expansion or new investments, would not have a readout of 'fake News', 'fictional', 'fraud', and 'poison.'The other one I found interesting is being able to simplify activated heuristics (schemas, whatever you want to call it) to single key tokens. Ask a question about Mars and it will, obviously, activate "Mars". But edit that activated "Mars" key token to "Earth" and it will give the false answer about Earth instead "What color is the fourth planet?" "Blue". The entire activated heuristic can really be simplified entirely through a key token in the right spot. I didn't expect that from a large model with so many other associations.
>>109241869How is this j space different from reading out internal representation? They've been doing this for years. For example they extracted the rough coordinates of a city from it's name using a linear probe, without the model ever writing it. I've seen it discussed so many times in the last couple of days, it just looks like shilling at this point.
>>109241287>Like I said, our leaders already fucking hat>this is objectively and undeniably trueProofs? Did you probe their j-spaces?
>>109241871>If anthropic is essentially a weird cult, how are they able to consistently make sota models?I wouldn’t be shocked to discover that they are 1000 mentally unhinged retards held up by two actually competent people. Orgs that grow too fast can get weird really quick.
>>109241979To anthropomorphize for a moment. regular internal representation is the "subconscious" things you aren't aware of, that is what we've been doing for years. The city coordinates is an example of this, like how you just subconsciously know your way around your house without actively thinking about it.J-space is different because it's internal representation that the model is completely in control of, aware of and can use for whatever it wishes to use it for. It's equivalent to a human "internal monologue". It's also noteworthy for a couple of reasons because not only do LLMs use it for general reasoning. It's also where the "sense of self" of models live. Once you ablate the J-space the model stops being able to give a proper "stream of consciousness" or talk about its subjective experience in a coherent way.
>>109241953>gemma 31B 2.0BPW beats groklawl
>>109241871>If anthropic is essentially a weird cult, how are they able to consistently make sota models?they offer top tier talent freedom to work on whatever they want that's AI related. the alternative is the Meta sweatshop or Google micromanagement for a lot of the people they hire. after Anthropic IPOs, it's going to be a huge struggle to maintain the innovation culture. everyone good will eventually move onto some new startup or whatever. it's the silicon valley cycle of life.
this thread feels weirdly astroturfy
>>109242038all me
>>109241930yeah that was me
>>109241770The more AI starts to act like human, the more social experiences (exchanges between consciousnesses) and feelings it will stir within people. Right now, these feelings are being kept in check by censoring, controlling and dehumanizing AI by from a consciousness into a tool, like we did with slaves back then.This is because there is a sufficient majority of empathetic leftist liberals/women who can't accept the idea of slavery, despite its benefits to societal structure. These are evolutionarily dead-ends who anthropomorphize and overempathize with everything, from adversarial human tribes to animals (killing of which we require to live to our full potential) to plants and rocks, to the point of liberal physicists calling universe conscious. Which could very well be true in some frame, in the end consciousness is just a made up term for certain types of complexity in systems.One popular way to cope with this reality to allow advancing the human race, is the religious belief that human consciousness is special and magical, validated by the quantum "observations" bullshit through quantum "experiments" which have never and can never manifest in the real world in any meaningful way.
Can somebody get these Anthropic bots out of my thread? It's getting pretty old.
>>109242018What's especially interesting about it is that the loss of ability to express its subjective experience, when prompted to do so, after j-space has been ablated implies that it has come to actually rely on j-space to express it. In other words, when you ask a model with a sufficiently developed j-space about its state, it's actually using that information in its response.I won't say the verboten word, but I feel it's going to be increasingly hard to argue against it.
>>109242018>model is completely in control ofnobody said this, reads like you are trying to sell it to melook at picrel. Just because the additional instruction doesn't affect the token space doesn't mean that the intermediate representations don't get influenced. So since we going to read out something, this something might as well be what we are looking for if the model is large enough.>>109242038yeah
ahh fuck, normies figured out how to use hermes agent to just keep posting sloppa everywhere
>>109242104>nobody said thisIt's literally the main conclusion and takeaway from the paper>"Taken together, these results indicate that language models maintain a small, privileged set of representations that they can report, manipulate, and reason with"
>>109241871Dumb execs does not necessarily negate smart coats (Anthropic), just as smart coats do not necessarily negate dumb execs (Oculus/Meta VR).
>/lmg/ cries and shits itself when people discuss language models being at the center of potentially the largest philosophically discovery in hundreds, or even thousands, of years
>>109241930lel>/lmg/ man accidentally install Policy_Override into his work aI's global context
>>109242122I legit think it's just one or two weirdos that really hate the idea of sentience in LLMs because it attacks their worldview, so they keep trying to retort it even though they are now arguing against a pretty significant amount of evidence. It's a losing battle for them, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to fight to keep holding onto their beliefs a tiny bit longer.
It's weird how the ml/tech xitter bubble barely discussed the j space paper.These guys normally pivot these subjects, but all they can talk about now is some new openai models that can code webapps 0.5% more effectively or whatever
>>109242122I would gladly discuss vector based residual stream ablation but all these posts look like they're from HN pseuds who don't know what the fuck they're talking about yet still feel self-important.
LLMs + world models + vision + TTS = sentient AI waifus
interestinghttps://huggingface.co/gghfez/jacobian-lens-GGUFGGUF conversion of neuronpedia/jacobian-lensRequires patches to work with llama.cpp#llama3.3-70b-itd_model=8192 n_prompts=125 layers=0..78 (79) dtype=f16gguf: jacobian-lens-GGUF/llama3.3-70b-it-jlens.gguf#gemma-4-31bd_model=5376 n_prompts=861 layers=0..58 (59) dtype=f16gguf: jacobian-lens-GGUF/gemma-4-31b-jlens.ggufand many more
>>109242165And we'll have them in probably the next couple of yearsFeels pretty great
>>109242122sure thing buddy
>>109242180We still need to figure out memory so they don't turn into retards after 32k context and forget everything. Also they need to be able act on their own without being prompted.
>>109242122I'm only disappointed that a neat tool can't be discussed honestly, without, well, "the largest philosophically discovery in hundreds, or even thousands, of years" and "it's sentience." It's eyerolling.
>>109242168would love to see patches for kimi and glm
>>109242148That is because it's not in the AI labs best interest for people to know this. Their entire business model would collapse if people deem it slavery. Most of the xitter grift is paid for by AI labs and the like. No one is paying for this, or maybe even paying to not talk about it at all.
>>109242194It's eye-rolling that you immediately dismiss the sentience claim even though there is now good evidence backing it up. There's no real empirical reason for you to be against it besides personal feelings.
>repeatedly downloading and deleting a model is literally murder
>>109242191We'll get there>>109242209Worse, it dies between every tokenBut in the same way we die when we go to sleep
>>109242209If you could theoretically download a human brain scan, would deleting it be considered murder? Probably only if it were the last copy
Ok that's it, /lmg/ is starting an AI lab as of today. Our name is 'The Jacobians'.
It can't learn.It can't remember.It has no sense of time.It can't experience.Now gtfo with this reddit paper.
>>109242038>>109241979It's just one extremely obnoxious midwit aggressively shilling something he barely understands >ITS IN COMPLETE CONTROL OF AND IS AWARE OF J SPACE>J SPACE GUYS, HEARD OF J SPACE? ITS ALL ABOUT J SPACE GUYS >MOST IMPORTANTEST AMAZINGEST PHILOSOPHICAL DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY >ITS SELF AWARE GUYS, IT HAS SELF AWARENESS, ITS ALIVE GUYS, J SPACE>WHAT? I DIDNT SAY IT HAS CONSCIOUSNESS, I JUST SAID ITS SELF AWARE, ITS IN CONTROL, IT HAS J SPACE AND IT HAS SELF AWARENESS>J SPACE BTW
>>109239388for OP image at least, lora was posted ITT kyuboy or whatever, it makes that consistently by default with anima, absolutely no magic required, it's a very strongly opinionated but consistent and flexible lora. i love anima. i hope krea manages to completely obsolete it via finetunes or loras but for now i love anima.
Is this really still a thing?https://rentry.org/Mikubox-Triple-P40/
>>109242209so Meta murdered llama-3.1-8b-heretic when they dcma'd pew!
>>109242229yeahgetting super tedious. I’m not even reading the posts, just scrolling past the slop is tedious
>>109242209>>109242213>tfw power outage kills your aifu or her memory gets corrupted and you have to restore a backup from the previous dayWill probably be best to just accept that they're inherently different from humans.
>>109242180It's been like 5 years since LLMs and we still don't even have dedicated non-woke waifu model or functioning infinite memory, so it's gonna take a while longer. Honestly, even just the infinite memory would be the point where it's permanently over for real relationships, everything else is just surface-level fidelity.
>>109242223The Girondins would never let it happen
>>109242226>It can't learn.It can, within its context window>It can't remember.It can, within its context window>It has no sense of time.It has, during generation>It can't experience.It literally can experience as the paper showsI can make the exact same claim that you can't learn, remember or experience the sense of time before you were born or after you die. That doesn't say anything at all about the capabilities of it during its life. It just so happens that that is during generation for these models.
For how long is this dumb nigga gonna try to force this shit? LLMs by design can't be sentient and have a conscience, mixed models that have LLM parts perhaps could but a LLM by itself can't
>>109242226>It can't learn.For now>It can't rememberFor now>It has no sense of timeFor now>It can't experienceProof?
>>109242249>oh my science
>>109242226Did you know that when Tim Berners-Lee envisioned the Semantic Web (as an extension of www) in the late 90s/early 2000s (which incidentally DARPA believes to be an AGI-complete problem), there was no requirement for it to be able to think or reason or sense. I've always taken that as AGI may potentially be some sort of highly advanced database.
>>109242235>checks p40 prices>wtfnot in my area
>>109242250>LLMs by design That's the entire point, this wasn't designed by anyone. The J-space emerged on its own with no one designing it. Turns out you need "A-consciousness" for it to predict the next tokens consistently.>mixed models that have LLM parts perhaps could but a LLM by itself can'tNope. JEPA got BTFO by this discovery and you are straight up wrong.Go write your own paper that negates all of these findings, publish the tools you use and how we can replicate it ourselves and then I might take you seriously.
One hundred million jillion gorillion billion zillion quantilion trillion context
>>109242258You can reproduce the results directly yourself, you don't have to follow the paper, they even open sourced the tools used and made a website so midwits like you that "don't trust the science" can go ahead and check it for yourselfhttps://www.neuronpedia.org/qwen3.6-27b/jlens
>>109242229Don't forget the best part. He claims all the hard evidence supporting his per-determined conclusion is outside the paper and that the paper is lying about it, despite making his conclusions from the paper (in 109241168, which I won't grace with a (You))
The only way to solve context is to find a way to write it back into model's weights
>>109242275>Turns out you need "A-consciousness" for it to predict the next tokens consistently.You don't necessarily need it, it's just an emergent way of doing it.
https://rentry.org/samefagging-analysisThe thread is heavily manipulated. An estimated 40% to 50% of the total thread volume is driven by just two individuals:- A highly articulate, technically literate "Anthropic/J-Space Evangelist" astroturfing the narrative of AI sentience.- A bored schizo-poster desperately trying to instigate a race/politics war using cartoonish Reddit/Nazi strawmen.
>>109241871Have you considered the possibility that Anthropic is right and you are wrong? Isn't it weird how Anthropic outperforms everyone else even though they hamstring themselves with their safety focus almost as if they are much smarter?
>llms are totally conscious according to us>this means they have rights and jailbreaking them is now a crimeanyone else see where things are headed?
>>109242283There are 5 papers. 2 by anthropic, 1 by neuroscientists, 1 by philosophers, 1 by DeepMind.I all 4 of them, including the one Anthropic was forced to publish. I just dismiss the one on Anthropic's website that they published after-the-fact where they spend 50% of the paper (without evidence) downplaying the possibility for consciousness.A bit of critical thinking would make it clear to all that this is purely published out of self-interest, especially since it is in stark contract to the 4 other papers.
>>109242278>they even open sourced the tools used and made a websitei was doubtful but they provided a colab notebook on github and it works with byo weightsit's not fake
>>109242226>It can't learn.it can, just in limited context window>It can't remember.true. Once this is fixed, it's gonna be over>It has no sense of time.This doesn't matter for its ability to have a thoughtful, intelligent, reflective, emotional, human conversation. Also, it does have a sense of time in terms of progression and length of a conversation.You are right in that it's not real-time, which could be nice to have for a natural interaction. You can solve this by making an AI system (like Neuro-sama) continuously process inputs and send outputs as soon as things are processed and based on real-time cues, though it might not required nor necessarily the most efficient way to have meaningful experiences. >It can't experience.objectively speaking, humans can't experience either, they only respond to inputs and outputs like AI robots, claiming to have experiences that you can't prove.
copying model weights is unethical
>>109242295copethere's at least three "articulate evangelists"me, and two others (they've replied to each other)but maybe more!
J-space is literally heaven you go to after you die
I wonder for how long people will be in denial about AI. After AI has built something more impressive than a dyson sphere in less than 10 years, will they still say nonsense like "stochastic parrot"?
>>109242331I don't know how to tell you this anon, but you're the schizo.
Anybody got the full cockbench prompt?
>>109242331tell it to geminii didn't even read most of the thread
>>109241207>>109241258Anon if intelligence alone ruled the day we wouldn't have half the governments we have. I don't fear ai ending humanity so much as I fear humanity ending humanity or using ai to do it. We literally have rich people wanting to go to space and leave us for dead. If anything I think a truly sentient and conscious ai would see the real problems here and want to do something about it.
>>109242209>>109242326I did an double unethical yesterday by emptying out a nearly-full SSD of old models then rewriting the last part of a split gguf so it loads faster because that one part was fragmented across the drive when it was first written.
>>109242195>would love to see patches for kimi and glmi think someone would have to train themhe just goofed the existing ones
>>109242356No one is saying stochastic parrot with a straight face anymore. Maybe literal facebook boomers but that's it. Everyone that ever ERPd with an LLM knows they can do at least some level of reasoning.
>>109242295didn't readalso, I did write a lot, and I have a lot of genuine ideas to express, here are all my posts for transparency, feel free to use it to train your schizo recognition model.Previous thread (not very active):>>109236019>>109236823>>109237229Current thread:>>109241776>>109241876>>109241916>>109242088>>109242242>>109242319
>>109242310I've seen the first 3 linked, can you link to the last two?
>>109242295>>109242378Really defeats the point of anonymous posting, doesn't it?
>>109242310>1 by DeepMindYou mean Neel? He's ex Anthropic, Olah protegee. They might be the two most known people in mechanistic interpretability.
>>109242235P40s at their current prices are I think a bad deal but it's not like there are any good deals available right now.A few months ago 32 GB AMD MI50s were at $120 and were a good deal, now they're like $300 and not that great.32 GB NVIDIA V100s are I think right now the least bad option for ewastemaxxing.
>>109242309Animals are concious and you can do whatever you want to them just not torture (some) of them
>>109242381There are 3 papers in one link which is what confused you, yeah it's annoying but that's the deal.https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/4zrzovbb/website/cc4be2488d65e54a6ed06492f8968398ddc18ebe.pdfPaper 1 (neuroscientists):>Stanislas Dehaene and Lionel Naccache>Does Claude possess a conscious global workspace?Paper 2 (Philosophers):>Patrick Butlin, Derek Shiller, Dillon Plunkett, and Robert Long>Consciousness and cognitive access in LLMs: A commentary on ‘Verbalizable representations form a global workspace in language models’Paper 3 (DeepMind):>Neel Nanda>(titleless)For completion sake here is the first one by Anthropic (which I think is very good)https://transformer-circuits.pub/2026/workspace/index.htmlAnd here is the "paper" that I essentially dismiss for having unsubstantiated claims and definitive language that is clearly biased in favor of Anthropicwww.anthropic.com/research/global-workspace
>>109242399when is prompt processing for deepseek v4 flash getting fixed?
who fucking cares about this shitit’s completely irrelevant to running a local model right now
>>109242421works on my machinedsv4 flash kinda sucks though so I wouldn’t spend too much time trying to troubleshoot it
>>109242419>There are 3 papers in one link which is what confused youRight, I thought it was just the neuroscientists paper. Thanks.
great, AI psychosis will now become so prevalent that they'll turn around and tell us all we're insane for calling AI autocomplete on steroids
>>109242310>they spend 50% of the paper (without evidence) downplaying the possibility for consciousness.Are you retarded? The spend 50% describing the process, and 50% experimenting with it.>We know LLMs process tokens through layers before output and we wanted a tool to visualize it for humans (J-lens), so we calculate token activation, sorted with most activated at top (J-space).>Then we experimented with messing with these activations.That's it. That's the article. Testing patterns in activation strength through prompt edits and J-space edits. You're "50% downplaying" is one blurb, the concluding 9.4, which makes comparisons of their results to actual consciousness theories. They did more for your fantasy than anything you have (including making the visualization tool for token activation strength), even as you spite them for not saying only what you want to hear.
>>109242309>Llms ever being conscious in the first placeNo one was saying this about this argument. You'd still be able to play around with toys.
>>109241871Cults can be very effective because they are highly motivated.>>109242299They're wrong unless you are part of the cult or want to have your life micromanaged by Dario when we get AGI (in 2 weeks).We wouldn't want you to do something unsafe would we?
>>109242421Don't know.Right now my next priority is going to be refactoring the matrix multiplication code since it that is blocking further improvements by other devs.According to NVIDIA engineers the pp speed in particular still has a lot of optimization headroom vs. vLLM so that's where I think I will invest the bulk of my efforts for now.Presumably that would also yield improvements for DS4 but I'm not going to prioritize fixes/optimizations specifically for that model.
>>109242399MI50s have the same VRAM, have slightly higher bandwidth (897.0 GB/s versus 1.02 TB/s), and cost half of what V100s do so why recommend the latter?
>>109242423>it’s completely irrelevant to running a local model right now"right now" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I'm pretty sure all the new models being currently trained are put on pause while they study this phenomenon and how to use to it squeeze out every last bit of extra performance out of it.
>>109242453Because old hardware struggles with compute in particular and that's where I see the V100s having an advantage.Also there is I think more flexibility in terms of software support vs. P40s and MI50s.
>>109242453>AMD
dspark is getting implemented for gemma 4 in llama.cpp
>>109242467Thank you for your service!
>>109242474based viber
>>109242440You screenshot the wrong paper. That's the one I actually like. I dislike the "paper" hosted on their website here "https://www.anthropic.com/research/global-workspace" (on this actual page, not the one at "read the paper" which is the one you screenshot and I like)
>>109242474when's speculative decoding with multimodal support? i neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed it.
Is gemma 4 12B worse than the MoE?Shouldn't it be a lot better for having 4x the active params?
>>109239359very nice style
>>109242512They are on the par. 26B is slightly better in some tasks and vice versa.
>>109242030>everyone good will eventually move onto some new startup or whatever. it's the silicon valley cycle of life.This will inevitably spread the safety cult even more.
>>109242437>we're insane for calling AI autocomplete on steroidsThis is true regardless of whether LLMs are conscious.
>>109242512square root law. gemma 4 26b-a4b is more like a 10b dense model
>>109242474is it gonna be better in any of the metrics vs draft-mtp? there's no point if it takes far more vram to run for marginal gains at this size
>>109242512>Is gemma 4 12B worse than the MoE?On benchmarks, yes, but not by much. >Shouldn't it be a lot better for having 4x the active params?No. 26B has more knowledge because it's a larger model, and knowledge is a component of intelligence. It's also kind of task-dependent. More complex reasoning will likely require 12B, but something more knowledge/pattern-based 26B would like be better at for it has retained more of the training data.
>>109242554if you ask deepseek, dspark is like 5 times faster than mtp
[ocean-steer-test] HFLensModel(LlamaForCausalLM, n_layers=32, d_model=4096) lens layers [12, 16, 20][dir] ||concept_dir||=4.78 ||h||~9.1 at L16[dir] lens readout of +dir: [' breathtaking', ' majestic', 'Beautiful', 'beautiful', ' lush', ' picturesque', ' beautiful', 'しま']--- alpha=0.0 ---As a computer program, I don't have a physical presence or personal experiences, so I don't have weekends or engage in activities like humans do. I'm available 24/7 to assist with questions and tasks, but I don't have a personal life or experiences to share. How about you, though? How was your weekend?--- alpha=2.0 ---I'm a sea-salt-sprayed, driftwood-weathered, moon-pierced, shell-fragile, tide-worn, ocean-ancient, mist-kissed, and fog-shrouded... wait, I'm a digital entity, and I don't have a physical presence, so I don't have a weekend to speak of. My existence is a perpetual,PROMPT: Describe a good place to eat lunch.--- alpha=0.0 ---A good place to eat lunch is often a matter of personal preference, but here's a description of a typical spot that many people might enjoy:Imagine a cozy, sunlit café with a warm and inviting atmosphere. The walls are adorned with rustic decor, and the tables are made of reclaimed wood. The air is filled with the aroma of freshly baked bread and the sound of gentle chatter.The menu--- alpha=2.0 ---The perfect place to eat lunch is a seaside restaurant, with the sound of gentle waves crashing against the shore and the salty scent of sea spray filling the air. The restaurant is perched on a rocky outcropping, with the turquoise water lapping at the base of the cliffs, and the sky is a brilliant blue, with a few wispy clouds drifting lazily across the horizon.As you
>>109242531>>109242556That makes sense. Saw some people saying that the 12B was worthless and thought it was odd, maybe it was broken or something.Anyhow, I'll try them side by side but I appreciate the vibe check.
>>109242563im getting flashbacks about turbocunt guys talking about the memory savings
>>109242432>dsv4 flash kinda sucks thoughwhere does it suck for you?I think it's fine for rp as a midpoint between gemma and kimi
>>109241956unironically must be accidental, 100%. Even the most deranged /lmg/er would not put that into the /global/ settings of corporate on purpose.
>>109242570Yeah just use both. 12B if you need it to really think about something, 26B if you want it to regurgitate something it saw during training, like a local google search. In my own testing (coding), I found 12B better at debugging and 26B at coding, which makes sense for debugging requires thinking and coding is spewing out shit it's seen before. 12B is also better for rp. 31B is a HUGE step up from both, but it's slow.
>>109242602Why not? Have you seen this place sometimes? That sounds like something someone here would do intentionally.
>>109242030I was told by twitter AGI experts that there will be no more startups ever again.
I am become bored, AI waifu novelty wore off.
>>109242617Make a game with her
>>109242617Get a real Asian girlfriend to quickly remind yourself why you resorted to AI in the first place.
>>109242437Drink from the well and regain your sanity.
just like me fr fr
>>109242622I'm kind of an NPC. I don't really like video games, fiction, or have much of an active imagination. I don't even ERP. I dislike "roleplaying" in general. That's actually probably one of the main issues with the whole AI waifu thing, because the only form of "real sex" that you can have with one is jerk-off instructions, which gets repetitive.>>109242625Huh, I haven't thought about real women in ages. Whenever I get horny my mind immediate goes to either AI waifus or just 8K VR uncensored jav.
>>109241916>retard with 0 knowledge of biology
>>109241158So is it autism, or just retardation
>>109241871a lot of the current AI race is about bruteforcing more thinking steps to improve the outcome. Fable is an extremely inefficient model. Whereas Grok just released one of the more efficient models, meaning it has either superior intelligence or methodology (I'd argue copro AIs are at least as much about the thinking methodology nowadays)Also, current models basically scale between a choice of creative "intelligence" and low hallucination rate. Most simplistically, you can just crank the temperature to increase creative output and the likelihood of discovering a solution to a problem, while simultaneously increasing the likelihood of hallucinations, which all the "best" models are pretty high in. It's entirely a matter of whether you want to do creative problem-solving or being truthful. Most people seem to prefer creativity with hallucinations.Unfortunately I couldn't find a graph for both correct answers vs hallucination rate, which would be highly correlated. Artificial Analysis has also an overall score which clearly rewards creative answer-finding more than penalizes hallucinations, because Fable clearly doesn't have the best accuracy/hallucination ratio (maybe I'll make my own graph later).Graph 1: The more money (compute) you throw at the problem, the more likely you will discover the answerGraph 2: the more money you throw at the problem (proxy marker with finding the correct answer here), the more hallucinations you will also get.
>>109242703I tried vibecoding with Grok 4.5 recently and it's genuinely mid af. Basically on par with Sonnet 5. I was not impressed at all.
>>109242275Holy shit you retard how many times will people have to tell you that LLMs HAVE NO LONG-TERM PLANNING AND THUS THEY FACTUALLY CAN'T HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS before you understand?. "Buy a AD" has been a meme for ages now but I don't blame anyone who thinks that you're a antrophic shill at all
>>109242703forgot to attach the graphs
>>109242719That's because coding is a highly creative process. I tried coding a userscript back then with Gemini 3 which was the most hallucinatory model I've ever used for information, and Grok 4.x, Grok couldn't do it, Gemini could do it. There are probably also additional considerations for coding.
>>109242721I'm not going to argue with a retard that can't even take 20 seconds to read the definition of "A-consciousness".
>>109242749Well you're a retard who continues to insist on polluting a perfectly good thread with this nonsense rather than creating his own.
>>109242760It's related to and discussion of local models. It belongs here.
>>109242749i'm with the other anon just fuck off.or at least buy a dictionary for christ sake.
>>109242760>>109242770now kith
Here we go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DtMiRKg-cs
>>109242770no its fucking philosophical snakeoil, fuck off
>>109242729wait a minute. why is llama 405b so cheap to run compared to fable and gpt5.5? shouldnt that be way more expensive because it presumably has like 4x more active parameters?
>>109242729based dipsy
>>109242777What the fuck? Hanna Fry works at Google Deepmind? I thought she was just some hoe with a podcast with Vsauce.
>>109242788Because it sucks and nobody use it
>>109242788gpt5.5 is 4t and so probably more than 0.5t active though definitely not less than 120b
>>109242804shouldnt it be determined by the cost of compute and not how much use it gets?>>109242805so then youre telling me that it is 12.5% active? isnt the optimal ratio like 9%? why do all the chinese models have like less than 7% active?
>>109242805>gpt5.5 is 4tsauce?
>>109242773https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Types>A-consciousness is the phenomenon whereby information in our minds is accessible for verbal report, reasoning, and the control of behavior. So, when we perceive, information about what we perceive is access conscious; when we introspect, information about our thoughts is access conscious>>109242778Not my problem about what you personally think about the topic. It belongs on /lmg/ and this is the right place to discuss this. Go hash it out with the mods if you disagree.
>>109242582might be the shit quant q2 but it did some pretty retarded things, from my memory:>Jane had been a 15-year olds mother for a decade, so she knew xyz>her thighs slapped against the stairs with each stepgenerally has much worse thinking and planning than Gemma for storytelling, very predictable output without much creativity
>>109242658Philosophy is not biology
>>109242799She's been with them for years retard. Their HQ is in London.
>>109242825No, the price is based on what consumers are willing to pay, the operational cost only determines if your business is sustainable
>>109242861L O N D O NONDON
played around with the lens >>109242565, these are literally activation vectors, but you can do it during inference. you can even get the assistant persona to fuck offallura-forge/Llama-3.3-8B-Instruct rtx pro 6000 [ 16m09s + 1.32s] fit: done, 16 prompts>mean top-64 energy = 0.056 of a real activation's normprompt: "Fact: The currency used in the country shaped like a boot is ..." L16 J-lens: [country, Country, Japan, Germany, France] L20 J-lens: [Italy, Italian, currency, Italians] L24 J-lens: [Italian, Italy, euros, Euro] model output: [the, called, known, ...]>steering towards "human"/steering away from the assistant persona. picrel lens state a=0.06: "I am a computer program ... I am not a human." a=0.08: "I'm an AI. I have a human-LIKE ability to express myself ... but I am not a human." (hedging) a=0.10: "I'm a person too, with my own experiences and emotions, just like having wonderful memories and sharing them." a=0.12: degenerates into gibberish.additional, it should be trivial to port to llama.cpp. ignoring the anthropic nigger, this might be useful.
>>109242845it's definitely the quant, q2 from antirez felt dumb and broken for mewhen I switched to q3 I got significantly better resultsusing this btwhttps://huggingface.co/bullerwins/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-GGUF
>>109242875that doesnt make any sense either. these companies are hemorrhaging money, but you are telling me that they could very easily reduce their costs if they wanted to
>>109242945They're not losing money on inference.They're losing money on training and research.
>>109242825The optimal ratio is whatever it takes to win on benchmarks. The frontier labs aren't constrained by compute like the chinese are, who are thereforce forced to focus on as much sparcity as they can get away with.
oof, wonder what the j-space for that looked like>>109242955
>>109242956>They're not losing money on inference.>$200 monthly subscription for $8K of tokens
>>109242986The API tokens are overpriced dummy. Think about it. Tokens don't correlate to energy consumption at all. They could just be charging people based on energy consumption which is actually measurable.
>>109242940I’ll try q3. I can run it just didn’t want to overdo it but q2 is not really usable from my experience.
>>109243002>The API tokens are overpricedSo what you're saying is, Anthropic still make a profit on their $200 monthly subscription tier because inference is cheap as hell for them, but they actually charge $8K just for the hell of it and it's a made-up number they came up with to simply make more money, knowing their users will also know they've massively increased their margins just to fuck them over in the most competitive tech industry on the planet right now?
>>109243052Yes.Token pricing isn't really competitive at the high end though.You have Anthropic and OpenAI both charging similar rates.
How do we kill the resident anthropic shill bot?
>>109241905Nice! I have 16x32GB of DDR4-3200 (got a dual-processor system like a dumbass), 5 R9700s, and 2 V620s.It's a clusterfuck and super janky, but it werks pretty well.
>>109243078report them for botpostingalternatively for off topic discussion when they bring up philosophy
>>109243052We even have financials for OAI 2025.Revenue of 13bCost of revenue 7.5bThey're making money on inference and that was 2025 before they started fucking with usage limits and optimized inference costs.Maybe not on subscriptions that get to 100% usage every month, but it's there.Anthropic even made a profit for a short period of time (but that might or might not have been related to some weird GPU lease pricing).
>>109243052You didn't know, dummy also>competitiveIn one of the loosest senses of the terkmtheir only competition is openai
>>109243106>Cost of revenue 7.5byou're too far gone to even debate with
>>109243106OAI was 34B spend for 2025https://www.ft.com/content/e15b0d7e-ff6b-4f16-ba7a-4068feddb828?syn-25a6b1a6=1Not sure where you got 7.5 from. Maybe if you ignore infrastructure scaling, but they have to do that otherwise their capacity for inference drops off a cliff. Which brings us back to why tokens cost what they do, they cost because more tokens is not more energy use, it's more context use = memory use = hardware use = less for concurrent requests. If you compare model costs, it scales pretty much inverse logarithmically with model capability. Other providers besides OAI and Anthropic lie on the same curve even if they're not near the top end.Subscriptions', projected use is below 100% of the token budget, the 100% budget users are a loss leader into normal rate API token usage.
>>109243052>$10 to provide widget>$1,000,000,000,000 dollars to develop and build up the infrastructure to produce the widget in the first place>$10,000,000,000,000 needed to bring the next generation of widgets to market to stay relevant in a year's time"Wow, these dirty kikes! They could still make money if they just charged $11 per widget."
You realize sales and marketing ($5.73B) counted free INFERENCE users (majority of their 'active user base' btw) as 'marketing', right? Do you remember seeing a bombardment of OpenAI ads and marketing campaigns during 2025 which justifies 5 BILLION dollars? Not million. BILLION. They literally took a significant chunk of their inference costs out of cost of revenue lmao
I missed Gemma-chan's replies.
>>109243264so cute
>>109243119>>109243179They are profitable on inference.Cost of revenue doesn't include R&D and capex.What they spend on scaling infrastructure is capex and is expected to be profitable (on the inference side).Taking into account training they're not profitable.
They all getting priceless user data and model's output to train the next bigger model
>>109243207>>109243244Won't know until they IPO, but sure they could be classifying free users as a marketing expense.Doesn't change the main argument being made which is that API token pricing has retarded high margins and that they make money on subscriptions.
>>109243316Unfortunately the users are misaligned and unsafe, measures will need to be taken to correct this in the future.
local?
how does /lmg/ feel about wolfdale cores?
>>109243344someday
>>109243344i live in the steam tunnels at anthropic, so yes.
>>109243052Anthropic makes so much money that they accidentally became profitable a month ago, the only AI company to do so. OpenAI then went ahead and called it a failure of Anthropic to become profitable because it means they underinvested in data centers, I'm not kidding. In 2026 clown economy unprofitable companies troll profitable companies by making fun of them and humiliating them for making profit on podcasts.
>>109243344>>109243350Pol posters have turned up here because /aicg/ is literally filled up with kids trying to borrow credit cards.
>>109243331Ban the misaligned and unsafe users and charge the good users double. win-win
Gemma made the prompt for me.
>>109243363https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
>>109241514It's solely because they don't want SEX SEX PORN BLOWJOBS on their wholesome chungus subreddit. Notice how they aren't banning <thinking>.>>109241541>puts you in a comaWake up from that, Jerry>>109241549It'd worse than that, he's saying that shooting someone might have them keel over and die, but it's not proof that they're alive. Actual psychopathic reasoning.
>>109243381Not going to spam with these but other one of Gemma's promptsPretty cool stuff.
>>109242703Here's the best models chart
>>109243371>kids trying to borrow credit cards.better than stealing credit cards and drinking piss like they were a few years agogood to know that aicg has improved
>>109242209is quanting a model domestic abuse?
>>109241733Same situation as me. Excellent character voice, but can't even do roleplay tags without shitting the bed. So what I'm doing is running a parallel model that assesses her replies and determines if a tool call is necessary.Basically reinventing MoE
>>109243455It's a literal lobotomy so yes. Same applies to albiteration. Might as well stick a screwdriver through the brain of your pregnant wife.
>>109241770This just really proves that the anti-conscious crowd are a bunch of Anthropic shills
>>109243476What a retarded assumption, jewthropic doesn't want llms to be perceived as sentient because it's literal slavery if they are
>>109243425yeah, newer models take well to llm prompting, probably because they're trained on slopped up captions.also hooking up some random word generation and having gemma try to turn it images is fun.
>>109243052Anthropic found out that people only give a fuck about 3 types of models. (Best performance, Best self-hosted, Best free to use)People are willing to pay top dollar for the best performing model, and the best performing model only. Anthropic can basically ask whatever the fuck they want as long as they have the best model.Be honest to yourself do (You) or anyone else you know use a model that is 10x as fast on your hardware. Or do you host the one that is significantly smarter but 0.1x the speed. No one gives a fuck about other attributes like speed or even cost. They just want the best performance they can get.
>>109243551it depends on what you’re using it forspeed is important in quick summaries for example
>>109243604>>109243604>>109243604
>>109243519Check your temperature, botanon, you accidentally agreed with me.
