I like reading on wikipedia about random consumer tech that never got developed and what could have been. Do you have any you thought were cool?SED TVs (and FED tvs by sony, slightly different) were a bridge between CRTs and flat screens. Im gonna horribly simplify how it works so dont crucify me, but from what i understand the electron gun shoots vertically instead of having a deep back and runs along the surface of the screen, so you pretty much had a crt in the form factor of a plasma tv. The result was perfect viewing angles, true blacks, instantaneous response, great color and motion clarity, no burn in. But the tech wasnt developed because of a patent dispute. I like to imagine if it was developed it would probably be comparable or even better than OLED today.https://youtu.be/wATx4KjECDA?is=RI5GFZB0eqt3Kdkg
>>109257634Yes, i know this tech, got shelved, tough luck, buddy.
>>109257713fat retard
>>109257732Projecting much, fat retard ?
>>109257759youre the fat retard, fat retard
>>109257634>I like reading on wikipedia about random consumer tech that never got developed and what could have been.Provide 7 such article links.
>>109257634People sleep on Super Audio CD (SACD), but it wasn’t just a better cd, It was a pretty ambitious format.Normal CDs use 16-bit/44.1 kHz PCM audio. SACD used something called DSD (Direct Stream Digital), a 1 bit format sampled at 2.8 MHz. The idea was to capture a smoother analog waveform with less filtering than traditional PCM.It also supported stereo and native 5.1 surround sound, a much higher dynamic range, hybrid discs that had a regular CD layer, so they’d still play in any normal CD player.The biggest problem wasnt the technology it was timing. mp3 players, ipods, and later streaming took over right when companies like sony and philips were trying to convince people to buy expensive new players and rebuy their music collections. Most people were happy enough with regular CDs so it never caught on even tho it was better.
>>109257634read about holographic storage ts is still crazy to me
>>109257713who replies like that hes literally just asking /g/ about niche technologies. you are a fat retard no wonder this boards dead
>>109257759>>109257767You're both fat retards. Stop projecting
>>109257822>a much higher dynamic rangeCD's dynamic range is plenty - and often intentionally wasted.
>>109257713>>109257848Samefag
>>109257634
>>109257880who tf cares about cds anymore, spotify premium and bluetooth speaker mogs
SED was truly a wasted opportunity. Can they be revived?
>>109257888canon probably would have had the money to develop the SED if they didnt waste it on Qing Dynasty concubines to guard the prototypes
>>109257888those hot models are probably dead by now
I wonder when those patents expire. Are they even valid anymore if no commercial product was ever made ?
>>109257928who even owned the patent? gotta be a patent troll if sony couldnt make it either
That holographic disc tech that Nintendo had a fraction of the patent and nothing came out of it.If (and it is a big if) worked as they promised, would be the solution to keeping physical media even if games are 799GB
>>109257634Yet another great technology we didn't have because of patents shit, but also because it was much more expensive to manufacture than LCDs.One of my favorite undeveloped technology was holographic memory. Back in 2003, when memory cards were 16MB and very slow, holographic memory prototypes could store a few GBs and were much faster.Here's a poorly known one : While developing MiniDisc in the early 1990s Sony had plans for a bigger capacity version for storing videos as a replacement for VHS. We could have had MiniDisc VCRs. Prerecorded ones would have been like DVDs on MiniDisc before DVDs existed.
>>109257713fat retard!
>>109257969>>109257965holographic memory would have been sick. i yearn for the days companies shipped complete games on discs and you didnt have to sit around with your fick in your hand for two hours for a 79 GB update
>>109257969is the mini disc the same thing the gamecube used?
>>109257634AI is the only underdeveloped tech worth talking about—nothing else is important. We should be contributing at least 100x the resources into AI development than we already are.
>>109258066AI is completely stagnant technology though, it's reached it's peak already and it's still absolutely useless and unprofitable. 900 trillion dollars wont make dead technology magically progress
>>109258066bad bait
>>109257713fat retard spotted
>>109257634The problem with SED is that it still has a capture and hold TFT backplane. The fast stroboscopic nature of CRT is dependent on the power and modulation speed of the electron ray. Some piddly TFT can't compete.Only LCD with strobing/rolling backlight can compete with CRT, the backlight LEDs are driven by fast chunky transistors.In the future even inorganic/microled displays will still need special drive to compete with CRT. TFT capture and hold is shit.They will need to use TFT to precharge a capacitor, then discharge the capacitor through the LED through a shared rail driven by a fast transistor. Then, finally we can have a CRT competitor.
>>109258165You’re about 80% rightYou’re confusing the storage element with the display behavior. TFT ≠ sample-and-hold. TFT just addresses the pixels. Motion blur is determined by emission persistence. SED emits light from phosphors excited by electron emitters, not from a constantly illuminated backlight like LCD. If the phosphors are pulsed briefly each frame, SED is fundamentally an impulse display regardless of the TFT backplane. The prototype’s use of TFT doesn’t automatically make it behave like an LCD.
>>109257834>ts is still crazy to meYeah, mutilated transvestites on estrogen are grotesque. How do we get rid of them?
>>109258243Old head
>>109257894If you have brain cancer, maybe.
>>109258262yeah? so what
>>109257969DVD at 4.7GB is barely sufficient. Whatever thing they would have come up with would have likely been at best equal to VCD which was total garbage.
>>109257924dude is 100 years ahead of when this thread was posted
>>109258165> it still has a capture and hold TFT backplaneSample and hold is not mandatory. There is nothing preventing you from producing a TFT backplane that decays to black quickly after update. Like, if they wanted to they could even make an OLED monitor with CRT impulse drive right now, but they don't want to.> strobing/rolling backlightutterly grotesque and a poor imitation of a proper impulse display.
>>109257634anything is better than OLED
>>109257924>those hot models are probably dead by nowNah. They're Japanese. They'll have shrunk down into miniature, wrinkled obasans.
>>109258377i want to believe they are still hot. Im 26 and i would love to chat up asian TV guard milfs. HELLO
>>109257969There was Electronic Recording System in the 1960's, it was demonstrated, but it was also never released commercially.I found some of the videos about this technology.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4L_2vuLws4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U966TEFwsvQ
>>109258327>Like, if they wanted to they could even make an OLED monitor with CRT impulse drive right now, but they don't want to.OLEDs would burn in instantly at peak CRT brightness.
>>109257924Wrong (probably/hopefully). The image is from 2006.
>>109258334poorfaggu cope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_XPoint
>>109258433CRTs are scanned per pixel, flat panels are scanned by line, so the instantaneous peak brightness would not be as extreme as on a CRT. We could also maybe design the discharge circuit to have an additional delay so that the pixels remain fully lit for a little while say 0.3-0.5 ms before starting the decay to black. This would further reduce the required peak brightness whilst still having a reasonable level of motion clarity. Modern OLED monitors are absurdly bright, so many times more than a CRT that I think it would be workable. Of course such a monitor would no longer have high brightness, but it would instead more closely match the brightness of a CRT, which is very dim in comparison to an OLED
>>109257634T4P and linear tracking record players, killed by CD players. These only existed for a brief moment of time and are basically lost tech now.
>>109257874They're not your fat retards buddy.
>>109258027Not at all. Sony's MiniDisc™ was kind of a hybrid cd - floppy system, using a laser to heat up the disc to encode data magnetically. The Gamecube pretty much used miniDVDs (as in, a normal DVD but cut down to a smaller size) with a few tweaks.
>>109258709They're your fat retards, friend.
enough with the fat retards
Obesity induced metal illness all above.
>>109258409Great find.
>>109257880>the niggerfication of human senses, displayed graphically
>>109259095But I don't want them, pal.
>>109257822native surround sound was a really cool/interesting feature. Some day ill give it a try. always wanted one of the early Sony ES models (pic related). Sad no one really makes SACDs anymore, let alone native surround sound versions.
lpdbasically a crt but with a scaning laser instead of an electron gun
>>109257880that image pisses me off
>>109257634>no burn inThat's a fucking lie.
>>109258165>The problem with SED is that it still has a capture and hold TFT backplane.So SED was the worst of plasma with the worst of LCD? Kek what fucking patent disputes, it was a useless technology period.>>109258327>utterly grotesque and a poor imitation of a proper impulse display.It's good enough.
>>109257634For me it's another display tech, transflective displays.They work as regular color displays indoors, while outdoors they're reflective greyscale, similar to e-ink. Modern e-ink still hasn't caught up. Regular greyscale e-ink has a really slow refresh rate, and color e-ink can't do greyscale.
>>109257634>>109257888They look so tall with that perspective lol.
>>109257634Did they really need an 9ft tall booth girl for the event?
>>109257634>SED TVsThanks for reminding me that we live in the Darkest Timeline possible>random consumer tech that never got developed and what could have been. Do you have any you thought were cool?Not undeveloped, but essentially lost technology now is a pure-mechanical thermostat (bi-metal strip) toaster from the 1940s that measures the heat radiating off the surface of the bread to decide when to quit which is better and more reliable than all cheap timing processor circuit based ones in production ever since they were phased out (and you can't buy one new anymore with the simple tech IIRC for REASONS) since those run a specific time cycles regardless of whether the bread is stone cold from the freezer or already nearly charcoal:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLk1cjZ4ll0
>>109257822>Normal CDs use 16-bit/44.1 kHz PCM audio. SACD used something called DSD (Direct Stream Digital), a 1 bit format sampled at 2.8 MHz. The idea was to capture a smoother analog waveform with less filtering than traditional PCM.>It also supported stereo and native 5.1 surround sound, a much higher dynamic range, hybrid discs that had a regular CD layer, so they’d still play in any normal CD player.Reminds me of the Master Grade Video Coding scheme Panasonic Japan cooked up exclusive with specially-authored BD discs to use with their BD Players to exploit the 3D BluRay Standard to play BDs normally with a Base Layer of quality on regular players but then overlay an Enhancement Layer that adds extra bitrate and color bit-depth to the video from 8 to 12-Bits/Channel or 36-Bit Effective RGB Video:https://www.avsforum.com/threads/36-bit-mgvc-blu-ray-only-in-japan.1486405/https://www.avforums.com/threads/lets-try-again-to-put-the-free-in-regionfreedom.2441584/page-45And well before that D-Theater (HD VHS Tapes) and Super-Bit DVDs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiu0LPeLQPEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87LU9lrS4D8
>>109261910check https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitorthere is good refresh rate, the limit is the controller not the eink screens
>>109257634>the electron gun shoots vertically instead of having a deep back and runs along the surface of the screenAs I understand it, you didn't have "an" electron gun (per color) that produces a beam which gets deflected to go across the screen, rather you basically had electron emitters "per-pixel" for lack of a better word.If my understanding is accurate, this wouldn't have been a scanning display like a regular CRT and more like a fixed pixel grid display instead. It would be much like OLED, in the sense that it would likely have the great contrast but would lose the resolution adaptability and the motion clarity of conventional CRTs. The question would be about their durability. Conventional CRTs suffer from burn-in but are far more durable than current OLEDs. These would certainly still suffer from the same kind of burn-in of the phosphor, so as long as the electron emitter things themselves weren't prone to quicker degradation than that then this would effectively have the advantages of OLED without the very quick burn-in.
>>109257822I have a few SACDs and it seemed a bit overrated. Normal CDs still sounded excellent and the surround sound mixing on the SACD layer just felt like a gimmick where you'd play it once to go "wow it's an album I like in surround" and then probably not play it again, so it was hard to justify buying them. I don't even have a player for them anymore either, it just wasn't worthwhile. >>109257880I remember picking up a 2000s remaster of Peter Gabriel's So album and the dynamic range was horrific, it was just a flat brickwall. I didn't have much knowledge of the loudness war up until that point and I started seeking out original CDs from the 80s and 90s to avoid it (which also turned out to be far cheaper since nobody buys used CDs).
Anytime I read about SEDs and FEDs and think about what might have been. Then I become a depressed fat retard.
>>109257822Wasn't adoption also gimped by licensing and whatnot? Even my "reference quality" $1000 4K BD player doesn't support it.
>>109263091NTA but I think it was a cost thing. Sony pushed for adoption and even included SACD playback in the original fat PS3s but removed it on all subsequent PlayStations, which really says something since Sony developed SACD in the first place.
>>109263103Sony isn't particularly well known for making sound business decisions.
>>109263162Formats are always a rough spot. At least they got blu-rays right, which is somewhat of a miracle since HD-DVD seemed like a more normie friendly name. Though I think HD-DVD also suffered from smaller storage space compared to blu-ray which probably didn't help either.
>>109257787Holographic Data Storage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storageField-Emission Displays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-emission_displayInterferometric Modulator Displays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-panel_displayModular smartphones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_AraParametric Array Speakers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_arrayHigh-fidelity Cassettes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElcasetSodium-Sulphur batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium%E2%80%93sulfur_batteryWireless power transmission: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectenna
Yes, SEDs were awesome.>perfect grayscale tracking with PWM controlled pixel luminance>100,000:1 contrast ratio>DCI-P3 long half-life short-persistence phosphors, the best chemistry>excellent motion clarity>simpler driving circuits v.s. LCD>inkjet printable emitters (cheaper than PDP manuf.)>highest luminous efficacy of any displayAnd sadly, production was cancelled last minute, just after fighting off the patent trolls.
>>109263171I've lost track, but I think overall they had more flops than wins (Betamax, SACD, what else?). And regardless, their decisions seem 100% investor and/or keiretsu driven, without regard to what makes sense from technological or consumer point of view. For HD-DVD, I don't know if this was a universal thing, but in my area people (including normies) did not want it because it was "just DVD with some improvements" instead of a whole shiny new format. This was reinforced by the messaging that was not really directed at them ("look we can stamp HD-DVD on the same machines as regular DVDs"), which made it seem like a cheap lateral move, rather than a real generation leap.
>>109262846This really isn't any different from the Pixel Qi display you could buy 15 years ago, which also had a 60hz refresh rate. Their fancy controller is just an adapter board, same as the handful of LVDS boards I bought a decade ago to use my Pixel Qis in other projects.Panasonic also invested in transflective displays for their rugged handhelds and laptops back then, that's where some of the other sizes like 6" and 13" come from. Someone needs to invest in a new display now that the patent is expired.
>>109263532this is not that kind of displayit is a regular eink screen driven at 60fps, you can even just buy him only the adapter, and just use a eink display you have aroiund, if it maches the interfaces, the adapter has a fpga to be able to drive a eink screen fast enough
>>109257634>Undeveloped Techoptical tape, like bluray media but spooled on tape.capacity would be out of this world
>>109257822I like surround sound but dsd is a horrible encoding scheme. It was done for drm and marketing reasons, adding a mystique for people thst don't understand digital audio.It is literally a 1 bit signal and the sampling rate is so high because it can only work by using noise shaping to transfer the horrible distortion resulting from a fucking 1 vit signal into the ultrasonic range although sometimes badly mastered tracks have distortion at audible frequencies (note I'm not saying it actually is audible). High frequencies take a lot of data to encode so you have a huge amount of data wasted on uncomoreesible ultrasonic noise compared to the a actual music. Wasting disc space was ok for physical media. Using hard drives, or the internet for transmission, is incredibly wasteful. That was an anti piracy design feature. To this day, audio Fools buy enormous dsd files with even higher sampling rates that are still 1 bit. Like gbs per song of noise in the mhz range!PCM is a good system. It has no flawsnthst need fixing. It can do surround sound, 24 bit, high sampling rate if yoi need ghst for some reason. Dvd audio was better than DSD if you wanted a disc format.I mean I download dsd files sometimes but I convert them to flac 20bit 48khz.
>>109257634You've exceeded my expectations OP. With that subject I thought you were going to talk about lolis or something. Well meme'd good sir.
>>109263768Anything that uses plastic is a dead end on the tech tree.
Probably a bit obscure but I wanted to add one.When I was much younger, I recall reading a book about an early prototype traffic light that was basically a colored prism surrounding a white neon tube. The prism would be colored red, yellow, and green on opposite sides. Surrounding the prism in a square was a lens that would restrict the angle of refraction so the light would appear to change color. Outside of that was a reflective mirror similar to what flashlights have. The only moving part was the prism, which rotated so the light changed colors. I've looked for this prototype online but could never find any information on it.I don't quite know what advantages it would have had over a modern day light (maybe it didn't even work well) but it seemed pretty cool to me at the time.
>>109264117Traffic lights are a nonsolution to the actual problem: That cities shouldn't have 1ton+ tanks driving around at high speed. Build up not out.
>>109257634>Undeveloped TechMy personal favorites are V-FET transistors that allowed to build literal vacuum tube-sound without vacuum tubes and "elephant-ear" full-range speakers made from polymeric foam.Both could break the entry level of white man's hi-fi equipment, yet both were abandoned, thanks to slanted-eyed copycucks from YAMAHA.
>>109257759>>109257874That's a TV you idiot
>>109263179Thank you
>>109257634kek I was reading about hovertrains/aerotrain today. Kind of in a different league but still pretty cool. Gyroscopic trains are also up there.What's usually common for these things either that they're expensive to build, run, or maintain, or that they're entangled in patents or some shit that makes them expensive. In rare cases - such as gyroscopic trains - they're also fucked by public perception because they just look too goofy. But it's fun to imagine what could have been.
SED would not have CRT motion, it would have been just another Plasma.We have Plasma with pretty excellent colors, black level and better then lcd motion clarityFor static images OLED destroys any other tech I dont see a niche for SED, I dont think it would have been shelved if it were actually competetive
>>109265878Plasma had terrible motion, but with 24Hz content it didn't matter.
Koreans and LCD did everything they could to kill any competition with underhanded tactics. The biggest thing they did was sell 4k when no 4k content existed. They took an inferior technology, invented a solution (4k), then told everyone to skip Plasma, SED, FED, etc. It's how they got the world to adopt something that was inferior to everything else. No one who switched from a mid-range CRT to a mid-range or high end LCD thought the picture looked better. A the time it was a bunch of random shilling about things like power consumption and desk space, nothing with image quality. Nothing else could do 4k at the time, so they sold LCD TVs to people under the promise of 4k video. You can tell who was around for the change and who wasn't. People threw away their 1600x1200 19in CRTs that had zero motion blur and better colors for 19in 1366x768 LCDs that washed out if you looked at them wrong and were a blurry mess. And people went online and defended it, like>I save $7 a year on my power bill and my desk is so much more clear>>109266050Plasma motion is still better than my OLED and a 120hz LCD. And you're comparing 15 year old tech to modern tech. Imagine if Plasma, SED, FED, etc were actually developed in the last 20 years instead of just being abandoned.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModRetro/comments/1tqcwpi/comment/ooif9j2Speaking of CRT likes, what kind of technology could they be looking to use? Modulated blue/UV laser steered with MEMS mirrors seems feasible. A simple MEMS setup would suffer from the from their somewhat low optical angles so you're back to deep monitors. It's not that much of a problem for a smaller retro one.Similarly the horizontal scanning mirror would need to be extremely fast for high refresh rate 4K, but it's in the feasible range for a 640 pixels 60 times a second, 38.4kHz
>>109262896I think SEDs and FEDs work differently with how they use electron guns, not too sure tho. SEDs were by canon and FEDs by sony.
>>109265878Everything ive read about SEDs by canon and FEDs by sony implied they would have CRT motion and true blacks way before OLED was a think. I dont know where you got that they didnt.
>>109260938What do you mean? Theres no organic material to be burnt it would be a phosphor screen like a CRT.
>>109263016This whole thread is depressed fat retards
>>109267035CRT motion comes from rolling scan.They would likely have flickered like plasmas, giving some degree of clarity, but not even close to crtPlasma is closer to LCD then CRT>Everything ive readAre marketing brochures lol
>>109257713Fatard
>>109264147>fat retarded goober
>>109267186Well tell us about your first hand experiences with SEDs and FEDs, Mr Know-it-all.
>>109267186You’re treating rolling scan as if it’s the only thing that matters. Motion clarity comes from impulse emission and phosphor persistence too. SED/FED still excite phosphors with electrons, so they retain the key characteristics that make CRTs look so sharp in motion. Saying they’d be “not even close” contradicts virtually every engineer and journalist who saw the prototypes. Got a source that isn’t just speculation?
>>109263333It's hard for me to remember, all I really recall is not being interested in HD-DVD. One thing I forgot in my post too was that Sony included blu-ray in the PlayStation and at the time it was one of the absolute cheapest ways to get a blu-ray player, while the Xbox 360 needed a separate add-on drive you had to buy.
>>109258334Even TN?
>>109267334how do you think plasma creates its light output lolDo you have a motion blur test of SED somewhere?Why shill for a tech we have not even real benchmarks for?>Would you trust a jurnoLink me that article talking about motion clarity if you arent full of shit.No one even cared about motion clarity back then for the most part, and certainly no mainstream jurno>>109267291Burden of proof lies with the shills in my humble opinionBut if you want to believe in a magic saviour technology, by all meansNot like you will ever see one
>>109268171Lmao, ‘there are no motion benchmarks’ isn’t gonna win you any arguments. No shit there aren’t pursuit-camera tests. SED died before it hit retail. That’s not evidence against it, it’s just history. The tech was killed by patent lawsuits and LCD economics before retail. You’re the one inventing the conclusion from missing data.Electron emitters + phosphors + microsecond response = impulse display. That’s literally why SED existed. Show me the physics that says removing magnetic deflection suddenly creates LCD-style motion blur.‘Not even close to CRT’ is fanfiction until you can back it up.
>>109268307>phosphorPlasma TVs use phosphor too, and they dont have perfect motion.>thats literally why SED existsAll of this is only relevant for gaymers, and I am most certain that was not the intended target audience."Close to CRT" is just as much fanfiction as what I have saidIf there are no tests and no evidence, why even bring it up?Its a dead irrlevant tech that will not get revivedIf it had been produced, it would have probably taken its place beside plasma, and be discontinued in favour of OLEDAs for motion,Its literally all about the strobingLCD can have CRT motion clarity btw VR headset LCDs are on par with CRTs, right nowAnd not at crazy high hz, at low hz, 72-120
>>109257634>FED TVlet me guess .. those glow in the dark?
WHO HAS THE SED PROTOTYPES?or were they destroyed?
>>109268710I have one but I'm not sharing anything about it
Everything about SED was worse than Plasma with the exception of powerdraw and slightly elevated blacks in very early plasma displays. I basically held onto a 1080i crt until like 2015.
