>>109369836
no problemo xister!

are you jacking off to xorg or something my dear kind nigger?

>>109369836
based
Xlibre

>>109369836
Ok, I won't be

at least the amish have a more or less reasonable religious justification for rejecting technological advancement.

xorg fags, however, are retarded, and do it for no benefit whatsoever.

the user above is trans and ""she"" made the thread and all the replies above

>>109369836
Pain in the ass for multi monitors. can't even use different refresh rates
Xeniles are fucking retarded

>>109370601
i use uncomposited desktop with low latency
>>109370855
i use a single monitor

>>109370855
I never understood this misinfo. Is it just bait? I'm using 144 on my main and 60 and my other 2 just fine.

>>109369836
do x11sters stay because of "functionality"? Or is this pure ideological? Because Gayland has better performance *le future* and security.
>https://www.phoronix.com/review/cachyos-desktops-july-2026
Ubuntu and Fedora default to it, SteamOS switched to Wayland and even Debian with the "Debian Desktop" is Wayland by default.

>>109371372
>Gayland has better performance
wrong

>>109369836
That's on you lad. I switched because it won't ever improve. It is what it is. Wayland meanwhile will continue to improve.

>>109371431
ok let me know when i can disable compositing

>>109371431
Wayland will eventually be just another X extension because wayland's capabilities (as far as APIs go) are a strict subset of X's.

>>109371372
Yes both functionality and ideology. Wayland does not have better performance, that's a flat out lie in fact it limits you from doing certain things that increase performance. Xlibre provides better security than Wayland with Xnamespaces, but unlike Wayland doesn't cripple reasonable use cases like push to talk in Discord. Wayland isn't even "le future", Canonical tried to pull the same shit with Ubuntu Mir and now it's dead. Xlibre is the future and Wayland niggers are just clutching onto an already ageing decade old protocol full of corporate enshittification from the start.

>>109371487
Anon I don't know much about all that shit, but it seems like Wayland is and will be the default from now on. And the big feature I'm hearing about a lot is the anti keylogging, which prevents apps from spying on other apps. But even that comes with it's own problems... like global hotkey not working, because those apps can't listen to inputs.

I wouldn't mind xlibre, but it seems like only the bsd crowd is adopting it and the big linux players are investing in wayland and those modern DE's are wayland only now (GNOME, KDE, COSMIC)

>>109371564
Despite that desktops that run Wayland are still more buggy than their X counter parts. They made Wayland the default so they can justify it over Xlibre. But Linux is about freedom. It's your choice to say "no, I don't want that shit"
Has anyone actually thought about "muh keylogging"? If you have a keylogger on your PC you have bigger issues than just your passwords being stolen. No other OS treats basic keybind functionality as a security threat.

>>109371564
>but it seems like only the bsd crowd is adopting it
not even, it's just a loud minority on /g/ that can't stop shilling it, they haven't done anything notable in the year+ that the project started aside from enabling TearFree (someone will link to a random git issue/PR that hasn't been interacted with for 6+ months to say they're working on *something* as a gotcha, don't worry). funnily they're stuck shilling on /g/ because they usually get banned elsewhere from how obnoxious they are (they will cry about being pursued by red hat or something)
for what it's worth >>109371372 is right and my setups have been noticeably more performant and smoother since switching over to Wayland, I'm sure some retard will start screeching about trannies from hearing that soon enough, though

>>109371564
also, most Wayland compositors already have global hotkeys, literal non-issue still being used as an excuse years later

same

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>>109372010
they dont. none of them do. they ALL have [that case] and you are met with "You don't need that lol." even if you've been doing it for 10 years. here take this script, intuit its function in all cases, and demonstrate for yourself that it cannot not work as expected.

I'm never moving to Wayland.

i use xorg because its the only option for the programs i use, which tend to be older programs with a legacy, like xorg. im not really a fan of the way programs must be rewritten for wayland or being locked into that ecosystem. ive also never had display issues. that said, it is suspect that xorg is the only viable display server, so much so that wayland must act like a compatibility layer

>>109369836
UGHHH i know!!! it's just that i'm gonna keep using it is all
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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this enrages the wayland tranny

>>109374561
this font enrages me too

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>>109374574
usecase for space between characters?

>>109374561
monospace fonts should never be italicized, this makes me 100% mad

>>109374637
I italicize strings, bud.

>>109374640
jump off a train

>>109374644
I'd rather not. Even getting on top of one in the first place would require me to go to the train station, which is at least a mile away. While I could easily jump that far down, it's been a long time, and I might break an ankle if I land it wrong.

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>>109369836
Same, i don't give a shit about what you niggers use on your machines nor you should about what i run on mine. As long as x11 keeps working i'll keep using because it's just the better option in my anecdotal experience and that's all i need to know. The same can be said with any other system component: i don't care how many distro switch on something, i'll keep using what i, the only sysadmin i care the opinion of, want to use.

>>109371564
> global hotkeys not working

yeah that's the tradeoff they don't tell you about. wayland's security model is just "break everything until it's safe".

>>109369836
me too.. i just cant be boethered switching.... i have a lot of scripts sorry.. and they still work fine so... yeah sorry im pretty busy

x11 sessions:
Have no support for HDR
Don't support VRR with more than 1 display
Cause stuttering with media playing on mixed refresh displays
Don't support true fractional scaling

x11 is used exclusively by destitute ziggers with windows 7 era hardware. Its ok that your standards are low, but don't cope by suggesting x11 is better because you can't see the benefits of Wayland. Have some dignity.

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>>109376136
Nigger don't even try to flip the script, the ones advocating for x11 (including xlibre) just want to keep using their shit and not impose x11 on the ones advocating for wayland, it's the other way around most of the times.

A good way to make everybody happy is how xfce4 did, making from scratch a new wm-compositor specifically for wayland is perfectly accepable as a solution because isn't about transitioning xfwm to wayland nor forcing the devs to support, in a nightmare-ish way, both x11 and wayland on a single piece of software. You can have both as feasible options without forcing either solution in the end user throats, allowing an organic adoption development. But apparently this is too much for redhat niggers and ideologues cucks.

>>109376136
> Don't support true fractional scaling
Because its the responsibility of the application. The windowing system is not meant to be scale anything. Its GTKs job to draw at the correct scale, but GTK refused to support fractional scaling for years.

>>109370601
Lower latency
No lag when recording (unlike kde plasma wayland)
No cursor lag (unlike on wayland)
Missing functionality that I need in my software

>>109376136
>Cause stuttering with media playing on mixed refresh displays
False. That's only an issue if you use a compositor, which you shouldn't if you care about latency
>Don't support true fractional scaling
False, true fractional scaling is done by applications and Qt applications have fractional scaling on x11 because Qt supports it

>>109376755
>False. That's only an issue if you use a compositor, which you shouldn't if you care about latency
Sorry x11dophile, tearing isn't acceptable.

>>109377993
Actually, it doesn't stutter with the TearFree option, the monitors sync independently
Also you dont need a compositor to not have tearing. I haven't used a compositor in years and I dont use the TearFree option and I dont get tearing

>>109378021
>Actually, it doesn't stutter with the TearFree option, the monitors sync independently
Until you have media on both displays and your higher refresh display will be forced to drop to the lower refresh constantly.
>Also you dont need a compositor to not have tearing. I haven't used a compositor in years and I dont use the TearFree option and I dont get tearing
TearFree is just vsync. It buffers frames which adds latency. Disabling compositing only to buffer frames with tearfree is actually retarded.

Did wayland fix the slight input latency issue or are they still pretending it never existed?

>>109379367
It was "fixed" years ago depending on what DE you use. KDE used to let you select how many frames you'd buffer, now it defaults to the lowest possible, the option is removed, and is indistinguishable in latency compared to other vsynced solutions.

I got all my shit working with DWM plus a bunch of miscelaneous X11 specific tools years ago, still just works today.
Right now all I'd personally get out of wayland is a pain in the ass of reconfiguring all the bits and pieces of my setup to work with wayland. Not worth the effort yet desu.
>but muh multi screen different framerates
I'm a brokie with 1 screen, non issue.
>but muh hdr
current screen shows colors fine, no visual issues.
>but muh fractional scaling
Set everything to a size where you can see everything and leave it at that. Zooming in and out on your desktop is for blind retards who refuse to get glasses.
Unironically, what benefits would I actually get by switching to wayland besides needing to redo all my tools?

>>109379967
>Unironically, what benefits would I actually get by switching to wayland besides needing to redo all my tools?
You gain the benefit of being beholden to the owner of IBM who can extinguish at any time. It's time we give more power to corporations in the Linux community.

>>109371316
it's just some de don't support it. (xfce famously)
but xorg has no problem with it.

>>109370601
Unattended access works on Xorg.

>>109370601
>just works
>mature code
>better standards (wayland doesn't even have standards, everyone implements their own shit)

>>109369836
I mean unless the wayland devs stop being retarded about remote input then it'll absolutely keep being used.
It isn't just about remote as in remote control; most accessibility features require it as well.

>>109369836
is x11 even suitable for gaming anymore?
eventually proton will stop supporting, emulators will stop supporting it
nobody wants to maintain more than they need to
sorry but its going to happen

>>109369836
use case?

>uninstall xwayland
>everything breaks

>>109370614
What does a display server have to do with that?
What does a display server have to do with that?

>>109369836
I'm switching back to Windows now that KDE is ditching X. This straw broke the camel's back.

>>109371372
damn gnome performed better than kde plasma
gnome actually uses less resources than kde now

>>109382883
>now
this has always been the case tho.
nobody uses gnome because they went full "likes are now florps; timeline goes sideways".

>>109371372
Debian defaulting to Wayland means nothing. They have GNOME as the main desktop environment kek.

>>109370878
>i use uncomposited desktop with low latency

this has been debunked numerous times. the difference of latency between x and wayland is less than 0.14 ms.

https://marco-nett.de/blog/measuring-input-latency-on-linux-x11-vs-wayland-vrr-dxvk/

xtards have been spreading misinformation for a long time now.

https://wayland.fyi/

>>109382907
and yet wayland retards refuse to address the fact that input is still a goddamn disaster and always ignore anyone bringing it up

>>109382890
retards were always bitching about gnome being "bloated"
i saw a youtube video of a guy installing gnome on arch and it was using 500 mb of ram on boot according to htop, this was on an 8gb ram system

>>109369836
Ok? I'm gonna keep using COSMIC the Wayland-only compositor.

>>109370601
Unattended remote display is one use case where X11 just works and Wayland is a pain in the ass. With Wayland I had to jump through hoops to get it to work half assed.
>KDE removed support for the X11 session
>can't remote into SDDM on Wayland
>need to be logged in on KDE
>KDE asks for permission to share the screen (need to fuck around with the config to bypass this)
So to get it working you need to:
>set up auto login (can't remote into sddm)
>get VKMS to work with Wayland (didn't work for me) or get a hdmi dummy plug (works)
>fuck around with the KDE settings to disable the permission dialog (can't click accept if you don't have a monitor attached, this is a wayland thing)
If the X11 session was still available in my distro I would have switched back to it instead of having to waste so much time on this shit that just works on X11.
KDE dropping support for X11 so early if fucking dumb.

This is one of my main annoyances with Linux userspace in general, the tendency to switch to something half assed as a replacement. Remember when they switched to pulseaudio when it was half assed too? I remember.

>>109382864
How does this meaningfully affect you

X.org should just tell everyone who still wants X to switch to Xlibre at this point, just like Debian told SystemD haters to go to Devuan,

Sell the X.org domain name as well.

>>109382788
>>better standards (wayland doesn't even have standards, everyone implements their own shit)
yeah like how Vulkan has no standards or whatever you retards make up to feel like you're smart

>>109382967
RDP session is in plans from Plasma Login Screen (one of the reasons they moved from SDDM).
GNOME already has RDP logins from GDM
Weston also has support for RDP sessions

>>109382967
Also, I've configured unattended remote just fine on KDE with Sunshine and Plasma Login Screen autologin, stop being retarded.

>>109382967
>This is one of my main annoyances with Linux userspace in general, the tendency to switch to something half assed as a replacement. Remember when they switched to pulseaudio when it was half assed too? I remember.

It's because they think by forcing their half assed shitware on everyone they can garner brain share and hijack people's effort into their own pet projects. It happens over and over again. Not enough people care about some fag's pet project? Fag talks to tranny butt buddies who ensorcelled their way into maintainership to force their fagware onto everyone in major distros, now everyone has to care about fag's project.
Very annoying.

>>109383102
Someone tell Elon that X is chudware and he'll buy it lol


Just don't let him fuck with the code

>>109383102
They'll never do that, because they want to handicap it (X11/XLibre) as much as possible. The only thing these "people" care about is power.

>>109371564
>global hotkeys
Wayland is a wire protocol. It doesn't stop a compositor/DE from implementing that feature. You're barking up the wrong tree.

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>>109382967
yeah, Kernel works hard not to break userspace, be compatible with POSIX etc. meanwhile userspace keep rewriting the same shit every few years and then forcing it down peoples throats.
alsa -> pulseaudio -> pipewire, sysvinit -> systemd, x11 -> wayland, coreutils -> rust rewrites...
Don't get me started on GUI toolkits, no wonder Linux desktop is a running joke when the likes of ebussy expect you to constantly rewrite your program, GTK2 -> GTK3 -> GTK4 -> GTK5, Qt4 -> Qt5 -> Qt6...

>>109383460
don't you know how many gui toolkits windows has?

>>109383232
... and you had to enable auto login instead of being able to just remote into the machine with the display manager running. Stop being retarded and look at Wayland objectively, it's just not ready.
>>109383460
Yeah the kernel is great for not breaking things, userspace is a fucking mess.
I've stopped caring about GUI libraries because they keep breaking things. I now just use TCL/TK and let it handle all that stupid shit that I don't give a fuck about. I remember upgrading one of my GTK+2 programs to GTK+3, I had to update the source code for no fucking reason, the program was the same and I didn't gain anything from doing that.
And what does TCL/TK use under the hood? Who the fuck cares kek it just works and has a great track record for not breaking shit. A few months ago I ran a tcl/tk program from the late 1990s and it still worked on modern distros with zero modifications. So for GUI stuff I'll just go with TCL/TK.

I think generally in Linux userspace you want to use stable wrappers or libraries that build upon other libraries like GTK+ or Qt if you don't want them to break your shit constantly.
>>109383637
Who the fuck cares about Windows (or Mac) in this thread, why even bring it up. Besides, if you want a stable GUI API on Windows you have that with WINAPI.

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>>109382967
>Remember when they switched to pulseaudio when it was half assed too? I remember.
Nta and i also remember, i was on ubuntu at the time and that was my first whiplash experience with a distro shoving down my throat unstable shit replacements. I moved to debian because of that, moved to xfce4 because of gnome3 and then got the wiser when debian switched to systemd moving straight to devuan. For me the last fucking 15 years at least are about escaping distro devs dumb decisions, eventually i'll have to LFS my distro to live in peace introducing new components only when they are fucking ready. JHC.

>>109382864
Just use Cinnamon dumbass

>>109383717
If I was going to use a GNOME 2 clone I'd just use MATE. But that's dead, so I'd just use Xfce. But that's also shit.

I think the Linux desktop really is dead.

>>109382864
as everyone should. Windows is amazing and will be soon fully agentic.

>>109383711
>Uriel
uhm uh uuuuh uhmmm mmmh uh mhhh erm errrr urm

>>109384048
Yeah, i posted it as a sort of a reductio ad absurdum but ultimately he was right, kiss and modularity are always preferable for infrastructures, one has to have the ability to swap components freely without issues other that having an easier time maintaining them.

>>109383708
TCL/TK is nice. I needed a bit more features and ended up using FLTK and i'm liking it a lot.
On version 1.4 they've introduced fractional scaling WITHOUT breaking the API. Most of older FLTK programs now work with fractional scaling out-of-the-box without any rewrites.
Meanwhile GNOME kept bullshitting users how they NEED to break API again and again to introduce fractional scaling, accessibility etc.
FLTK author actually worked on incompatible 2.0 release, but the users rioted, so it was abandoned while 1.x keeps getting updated to this day.

>>109384035
>Linux desktop really is dead.

FOSS desktop. It's hard to do a good desktop environment: you need good coders, artists, people aware of behavior studies, a power entity to enforce guidelines, ... there is a reason if both Apple and Microsoft have spent $millions in research and development of user interface. Apple spent $50 millions in R&D for the mac os interface according to Bruce Tognazzini. He's the main author of the apple internal book for designing apps. How many app devs have read Tognazzini today? almost none i would say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Tognazzini
https://web.archive.org/web/20030408101238/http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/pdf/HIGuidelines.pdf

>>109384333
Why would anyone read that slop?
MacOS doesn't even have decent window management to this day.

>>109384333
the desktop was perfected 11 years ago by openbox THO

>>109384617
it's a window manager, not a desktop environment.

x11/xlibre users just gotta tell you they use it.

>>109384655
>Desktop Linux users just gotta tell you they use it.

>>109384659
false equivalency.

A better one would be
>Wayland users just gotta tell you they use it
which is just false.

>>109369836
Same. Tried linux again after a few years and immediately ran into issues with CachyOS on KDE. Switched to Mint and zero issues so far.

>>109384617
*box wms are pure kino

>>109384769
My issues were graphical glitches on boot with Cachyos. But i also had a jewvidia card. Mint didn't have that when i tested but it had problems with grub, i fucking hate grub, limine is so much better. I have no idea what the graphical glitch problem was so i just let that computer on windows 10 and i'm using mint on my laptop, one day things will be better i suppose.

>>109371372
SteamOS did not "switch to Wayland," gamescope is based on a Wayland fork and the desktop session remains Xorg

>>109382864
And they'll be happy to see you go. KDE is the official 2SMMIWLGBTQIAP++ desktop and they don't need FUCKING NAZIS like Mister 109382864 over here with their support for HETERONORMATIVE TRUMPIAN FASCISM and FASCIST DISPLAY SERVERS LIKE 卐11/卐ORG

>>109384769
nujudea gpu?

>>109383460
B-but that's the strength of Gan00+l00nix n were gonna kill windows anytime now!!!111

>>109385302
>2SMMIWLGBTQIAP++
you forgot a G
it's not just missing and murdered indigenous women, it's women and girls, hence the extra G
also missing a Q and an A now that i'm looking
it should be 2SMMIWGLGBTQQIAAP++, 2 spirit, missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, asexual, agender, pedophile ++
what a time to be alive

Xlibre is awesome. Even if it only made corpotroons seethe that alone would make it worth using. Unfortunately for them it also works flawlessly and makes the Linux desktop fly.

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>>109369836
>uhhhh
We do assembly language now: >>109299594

>>109385642
AMD 9070XT with a 9600X
>>109384999
My issues were with my 2 displays being 2 different resolutions. Whenever my machine want into sleep mode while a full screen game was still up it'd completely fuck up the rendering until I restarted the game. Spent hours on tweaks and fixes. Nothing worked. One day things WILL be better, but I've said this for 10 years so who fucking knows. I keep going back to windows. Who knows how long me being on Mint will last.

Why the fuck can't I use push to talk with Wayland? Less functionality, more problems, worse performance. Why is this garbage being forced upon me?

>>109388556
>xenile is making shit up agaim

>>109376136
oh look, its the same 4 nothingburger "features" that get repeated ad nauseam. serious people dont care about any of this.

>>109376136
variable refresh is literally a meme. there is no use case for it outside of compslop gaming.

>>109389173
PTT on discord doesn't work. Simple as.

>>109382864
Switch to SonicDE. It's a Plasma fork that supports X11.
https://sonicde.org/

>>109383708
And? SDDM doesn't support RDP session either, you're just using shit like xrdp, so what's the difference then?

>>109390296
This could be really good with some basic common sense management.

>>109389214
I'm sorry your standards are lower than mine.
>>109389224
>a meme
How is the complete eradication of stutter, tearing, and buffered frames "a meme"
>compslop
Compfags play vsync off you massive retard

>>109382843
Uh, like what? Even proton has native Wayland now. I don't think I have a single X app anymore.

>>109382864
everytime i say i did this i inevitably get that one guy unable to fathom anybody would leave linux for windows.

>>109390931
Uh, duh? Windows is bad. It sounds like troll bait.

>>109370601
>new thing automatically gooder
Wasn’t true with rust and it’s not true with wayland either. The more people shill and try to force new shit, the more you should avoid it.

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>either use the old ass desktop server that just works but has local security issues and is deliberately being sabotaged
>or use the autistic dogshit that has not been able to solve many of it's problems it has had a decade ago and at this point runs on nothing but underhanded tactics and sunk cost fallacy
>or use the one that is literally completely new and nowhere nearly as entrenched as either and is also being sabotaged
this sort of faggotry will be the death of Linux

>>109390942
hey, you seem autisticly willing to proove points.
>>109372298
do this, rewrite it with native wayland programs of course. dont forget the condition THO. "In all cases." make no mistakes lol.

>>109385642
Thank you for educating me. I grew as a person today.

The only issue blocking me from completing my migration to Linux is remote access. I work remotely and I use Windows RDP, which works very well with my internet speeds, most of the time I can barely tell I am working on another PC.

On Xorg x2go/xrdp work decently, but what's Wayland's equivalent? What's the best Windows RDP replacement in general? I refuse to use Anydesk/Rustdesk etc, I only use those as a last resort.

>>109391167
I use rdp to connect remotely from Win10 and Win 11 to my Linux computers. It works well but you need to check some config files if the CPU load is high.

Xorgoloids will be punished! I'm warning you, do not use X11 or there will be trouble!!!

>>109391167
> What's the best Windows RDP replacement in general?
It could be X11 if toolkits actually would use available functionality. Old gtk2 engines were capable of rendering remotely super efficiently thanks to the extensive use of xrender.
Since the World is not ideal I'd recommend VNC (I mostly used TigerVNC). It's battle tested and very lean.

>>109370103
>Xlibre
548 contributors on Github, this is going places.

>>109389473
>discord
Retard

Until Wayland works with my 2006 ThinkPad, my daily driver, I will be sticking with X.

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Hopefully, the activity will also clean up the Motif/CDE codebase,. The looks are great, especially the lower bar, but the code is still full of unpatched major security holes.