Blessed thread of frenship

kino college

this is the thread

>>109388444
i'm in both colleges
pays to be in the secret discord club

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>>109388433
>>109388444

>now theres less krea in the collage
zitchud troll baker btw

>>109388421
Thank you for baking this thread, anon
>>109388433
Thank you for blessing this thread, anon

So what's the best unlock lora for Krea? Still fedor bypass?

so discorders, how we feelin?

>>109388433
>>109388444
Why are there two threads again?

>>109388454
>>>/g/de3

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>average kreatard username and lora quality btw
kek

>>109388474
Tranny mindbroken over few celeb gens

>>109388474
someone took it upon himself to make the worst collage possible out of spite

>made it into both collages
I won, you lost. Suck it!

>he has to go dig in the trash to keep talking shit about krea

Clearly /ldg/ is a very meaningful thread to anon with how hard he posts here

>>109388477
It was generated locally.
With a local model.
On my local machine.

>kreakekaroo instant passive aggressive seethe
brutal, kek

>>109388433
>>109388444
>>109388477
>>109388499
I am staying in this blessed thread.

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better collage

fuck debo

>>109388520
both collages have my gen, so I'm good with either :3

It does seem like there is something wrong with kreakeks, even anime related models didn't attract as many schizo who felt as personally attacked when someone speaks badly about 'their' model.

>>109388530
seems like good gens end up in the college regardless of who is making them.

>>109388520
im in both collages but this one is less pleasing to look at for some reason

>>109388537
nah

>>109388537
most kreakeks are model hoppers who use the best model available.

>10 comments about faggollage from the people who instantly seethe about anyone talking about the faggollage but only if its negative
Uh oh, im nooticing, >caring about the faggollage sisters exposed

>>109388503
What's with the funky filename?

>>109388542
heh, little bit of latina gas

>>109388559
i dont know what you're trying to say

I am the anon from the other thread who pointed out how often anon seethes at the collage because he is never included. This is my first post ITT I don't know why >>109388559 posted his schizo headcannon

i guess my tastes are too unique to make it as an ai artist. but i refuse to compromise T_T

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Where were you when Krea 2 killed loser weeb trAnima?

https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1v7y1ja/krea2_retroanime_style_lora_trained_on_18000/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1v7y1ja/krea2_retroanime_style_lora_trained_on_18000/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/1v7y1ja/krea2_retroanime_style_lora_trained_on_18000/

>>109388596
everything with the lora looks like shitrash

>>109388596
i was in comfyui genning krea kino

>>109388592
>my tastes are too unique to make it as an ai artist
if this is true, you are the kind of genner that should keep genning. ai space is filed with those who lack even a modicum of taste.
but post a gen first so i can tell if you actually have taste and are unique or not.

>>109388615
>t. zittard

>>109388593
What does it do?

>>109388537
If I say I've noticed a lot of discourse for the past month around krea2 and how it sucks and isn't better than zit, then would that count me as one of the aforementioned
rhetorical, we all know what the answer is

>>109388596
as long as it doesn't have all the danbooru artists, Krea will be killing nothing

>>109388618
i dont need a troon's opinion, sorry

>>109388628
thot character lora

>>109388596
>only 18k
Wake me up when it's all of danbooru. Until then Anima is not getting dethroned lol.

>>109388634
>>109388615
>>109388641
Seething ZIT samefag

Hey, I want to apologize for what I said earlier. I said ZIT is better than Krea2, but that wasn't accurate. After looking into it more, I realize I was wrong. Sorry for the misinformation and for stating it so confidently. I'll be more careful before making comparisons like that in the future.

>>109388596
a retro style lora does not kill an entire model anon.

No, i use both Krea and Anima. Why are you being obtuse?

>>109388647
>it's a samefag even though there's less than 1 minute of interval between those posts
what kind of mental illness is this?

>>109388562
>what's a userscript that removes metadata and randomizes filenames
fucking pleb

>>109388657
>>109388655

>>109388647

I spoke too confidently about something I hadn't evaluated carefully enough, and that was unfair.

Looking back, I realize my statement could have misled people or created the wrong impression. Comparisons like that deserve proper context, and I didn't provide it.

I don't want to spread inaccurate information or dismiss the work behind either project. I should have been more careful before making such a definitive claim.

Thanks to everyone who pointed it out. I appreciate the correction, and I'll make sure to verify things more thoroughly before making comparisons in the future.

>>109388660
>what are multiple IPs
All zitfags are luddites.

celeb shit kills the culture of /g/
this is not reddit

funny how this snowflake didn't say it when every gen was a miku floyd 2girl

>>109388673
>cope from zitfags whos model can't generate celebs
lol

>>109388672
>multiple IPs
so not a samefag, thanks for proving my point

>>109388681
retard, im the main one saying zit is outdated trash.

>>109388661
4chan automatically removes metadata unless you are a megaschizo or something. I only use 4chan xt which just randomizes the filename with a 4chan date.

>>109388683
>one fag can only own one IP!
zitfag brain

>>109388596
boobs and feet are all you need, this lora is legit.
pretty sure 18k images is overkill, could've just used 50-100 images to capture that style. but if it works, it works i guess

>>109388692
how do you know something like that is even possible? you seem quite knowledgeable about that subject, care to share more with the class?

>>109388689
Nice try, zittard.

>>109388692
yeah people are totally juggling IPs to shit on your jeeted tranny lora

>>109388712
kek, bodied that freak

krea2 feels like a local sota model. no other local model has felt this way. they all had glaring issues, but krea 2 is just overall a beast

Which of these ComfyUI able models can actually do penises without making them look like bulging vagina shaped monstrosities of the flesh?

>>109388752
generating a penis is gay

Why do some seem to be unable to tell when an output is slopped? Like sometimes anon will post an output that looks horribly slopped and very obviously like an AI generated image.

Is it for lack of caring or are they physically unable to see how much their output looks AI generated? Genuine question.

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>>109387836
prompt and/or loras? you get nice shapes and don't seem to have the "shallow depth of field" field problem i'm always seeing in krea 2 gens

>>109388752
realistic? krea with the refusal lora and realism engine
anime? anima

>>109388767
why would anyone put any though in a post here? it will vanish in <12 hours

>>109388696
oh.. my

>>109388777
realism engine fucks with likeness btw.

>>109388793
anon seemed to do just fine with that scar jo BJ gen from a previous thread

>>109388785
>why would anyone put any though in a post here? it will vanish in <12 hours
Please understand for some anon 4chan is all they have

>>109388768
I'm guessing anon uses negpip

>>109388785
Why put any thought into what you say to others IRL? It will vanish immediately

you should only put thought into what you post on discord since it will end up here

>>109388805
sometimes makes my cunny look older. no good

>>109388830
I avoid everything by just not having discord at all.
Insane data harvester of unmatched levels.

>>109388767
/sdg/ spammer holds the crown. he has made /sdg/ completely unuseable so im stuck in this hellhole

>>109388821
vagueposting about slopped gens is just going to fall on deaf ears

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>>109388690
I know, but I am too much of a schizo to trust anything or even my own actions.

I made the mistake of finally giving this a try. I'm gooning myself to death.

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still experimenting.
raw + turbo lora seems decent plus you get a proper negative prompt
hmmmm I should try to prompt out that depth of field constantly plaguing krea

>>109388870
ive been gooning more than i did when i was a teen. its so godly to be able to get exactly what im looking for.

and this is all thanks to some douchebag slopper on twitter ignoring my request. now im not beholden to anyone except my own imagination

>>109388785
>>109388843
So what I'm getting from this is that those posters simply don't care. That's unfortunate.

I've been using ComfyUI for a bit with some success, but it seems that many of the 'uncensored' models are anything but.

What are the best no-limit workflows out there for txt2img? I have a RTX 5090, so running heavy workloads locally isn't a problem.

After I get a handle on this, I'll definitely look into img2vid.

>>109388907
post some of your kinos bro, show these zero effort losers what a real gen looks like.

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>>109388936
nogens never follow up on this

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ogey

>>109388936
I wasn't talking about any specific poster but I laughed at you taking it personally

>>109388993
Why put any thought into what you say to others IRL? It will vanish immediately

>>109388982
I'm 70% sure I generated that image

>>109389063
hank hill ass lora?

>>109389085
huh? no

>>109389025
bong women are something else

>>109389114
that object doesn't look very safe

>>109389114
why did you make it that color?

>>109389126
its just a bicycle seat

deleting to be safe

>>109389088
Need this but with Jennifer Lawrence.

>being scared of jannies

>>109389133
He's a lil BBC slut

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:/

>>109389088
>>109389155
finally some 90s jewish teenage celeb kino

>>109389110
haven't watched obsession yet but the director has some very cool short horror videos on yt

>>109389110
Do you use turbo model or raw? Great quality

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foreshortening is a fun prompt

are we supposed to be religiously local-only? I uploaded my image to chatGPT just to see what it would say and ended up modding it a lot. I feel so violated

>>109388596
>>109388647
Comfy won't go back to fucking you in the ass no matter how many times you cry about it Ani

What do anon use for facedetailing? anyone still use ultralytics? Havn't touched it since I found out that it sends telemetry, also some versions had malware on it

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>>109389194
I haven't watched it either. They just don't make movies like they used to so i don't bother anymore
>>109389110
First pass, raw model with turbo lora at 0.6 strength, 8 steps
Second pass, turbo model, 0.4 denoise, 3 steps

>>109389219
>>109389247

>>109389231
you're your own man, but it's a dealbreaker for me
It's not a principle, I've just never paid for subscription software before, not xbox live, not DLC, nothin because it's cash black hole where you nothing back ever

I'm inclined to believe that /ldg/ has the highest concentrations of talented genners.

>>109389247
>First pass, raw model with turbo lora at 0.6 strength, 8 steps
>Second pass, turbo model, 0.4 denoise, 3 steps
You must have beefy gpu, worth it I'd say.

>>109389172
Jcon was 27 in 1997. Almost middle-aged

>>109389247
>I haven't watched it either. They just don't make movies like they used to so i don't bother anymore
It's truly terrible movie. Looks like shit, sounds like shit and characters are shit. Especially the main character who was such a pathetic pussy that I ended up cheering for the possessed woman. She hard carried that thing and for her performance alone it's worth seeing

>>109388768
>>109388815
I don't use negpip, but that image does use a couple of loras that I trained for myself.

>>109389110
this was one of the best horror movies i've seen in quite a while.. most of them are just cheesy shit but this one was actually pretty good

>>109389445
i'd hardly call it horror. more like thriller.

>>109389480
How????

>>109389258
not even paying. GPT does a good job, but we are in a pivotal moment where we either become dependent on cloud AI, or gain greater insight into AI by figuring how to do things locally, painful as it is

>>109389490
spend lots of money, that's what the providers do
it's not a secret

>>109389507
left looks like a dude

>>109389525
>he doesnt know

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>>109389525
>>109389534
don't tell him

>>109388870
Gooning makes you go bald faster.

>>109389370
>>109389389
kewl style whos the artist?

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where is kino?

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>>109389600

cooking it right now

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ugh, so 90's

>>109389607
thank you

>>109389622
>short humerus

uhhh...

>>109389600
I'm genning ace step. I've had 3 keepers, but it's the same lyrics, and I'm genning yet another, now which shall I choose?

>>109389625
that's not a real car.

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>>109389570
it's not an specific artist, prompt for it with stuff like "high-contrast black and white ink illustration, comic book art style, bold cross-hatching, sharp ink lines, heavy blacks, clean graphic aesthetic"

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NOT AI!

>>109389223
She actually has a long humerus.

>>109389657
bmp is that you

>>109389231
its well accepted that cloud is superior to local in every way, which is why every local provider sold out to api in some form. using cloud models is allowed here, as cloud-first software is linked in the OP

>>109389661
would you believe it's revolting?

>>109389668
why would it be revolting

>>109389625
Why does this look so bad? The sponge doesn't look like it's making contact with the car, like it was just photoshopped in. It doesn't even mold to the shape of the hood.

>>109389677
idk man. It's visceral. It's revolting, I know part of it, the short humerus.

>>109389682
because it isn't

why is there some schizo talking about arm length, take your meds

>>109389666
>cloud is superior to local in every way
would unironically love some proof that supports this claim.
api looks like its dead in the water unless you are a boomer using it for twitter/facebook memes.

>>109389666
>its well accepted that cloud is superior to local in every way
citation needed

>>109389682
It has later-stage type training. Basically, it changes its mind a lot about composition late. zit does that too, but it's not done as broadly as krea does it. krea basically stretches skin in 2D to "fix" the image in terms of the prompt.

Another way to look at krea is like those weird dolls they used to use in budget movies, as "special effects".

>>109388767
they are low iq, the answer to most questions about society and people, they are cattle, they are goyim.

>>109389699
hes been at it for at least a couple of weeks now its quite sad

>>109389705
>>109389711
stop taking b8

>>109389705
All the cloud models are burned, and you can't change this.

You can tell Gemini to gen again with a different seed, it won't, it can't.

lyra sounds pretty okay, but it often just ignores your lyrics and slopps retarded lyrics.

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>just need to get through this life until we get an actually good video generator model

As a responsible /ldg/ poster I make sure all the humeri in my gens are appropriately proportioned before posting

>>109389714
pretty sure this is a lora issue not a krea 2 one. looks like they're using some shitty 70s vintage lora

>>109389714
it's not making contact with the bonnet, look at the shadow

ace step xl BASED
https://vocaroo.com/19GLRJdQIMeK

>>109389600
GOT YOUR KINO RIGHT HERE
>>109389607
also ty

>>109389731
almost every issue krea has is due to shit tier loras.

its pretty nuts that the krea team gave us such an easy way to bypass the censorship

>>109389754
It was intentional and they knew a censored model wouldn't gain any attraction hence ideogram rotting away.

>>109389761
i'm sure it piqued BFL's interest
surprised they didn't do it first honestly

>>109389761
ideogram is junk because it looks dumb.

I like the box thing, though. That's cool, but I want it with anima.

>>109389761
Ideogram isn't censored. It has a filter that is easily bypassed, same as Krea, it's just more obvious

>>109389772
>I like the box thing, though. That's cool, but I want it with anima.
the box this is cool and should be an option for all models but not required

how 2 speed up krea raw gen times

>>109389791
by using turbo

Listen to this:

>>109389748

What model except Ace Step 1.5 XL can do this kind of casual voice?

>>109389801
I have never ever clicked on any of your vocaroo links

>>109389801
wrong thread imglet

>>109389801
the instrumental is really cool, very very cool actually, but i thought the vocals would be more 1920's or whatever. i dont care much for those vocals.

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>>109389489
wym

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>tfw some made a Yumi (ape escape) krea2 lora.
fucking based :)
https://civitai.red/models/2810651/sayaka-yumi-ape-escape?modelVersionId=3172811

>>109389809
No it isn't.

>>109388421
>Discussion and Development of Local Image, Video, and Music Models and Software

>>109389825
How do you make the gif? :O

>>109389828
yummy, but whats the point if you need to rely on realism tier loras to do nsfw?

>>109389832
wan

>>109389832
thats a mp4, retard

>>109389748
kinosovl

>>109389818
idk, maybe try this on for size? I like the "indie" vocals you can get out of ace step 1.5 xl based.

https://vocaroo.com/18MHPAkZBszl

I obviously can't include the lyrics, but the structure is (caution, remember you basically don't want ANY . or , (periods or commas) in ace step lyrics, they are interpreted as structural cues that are too extreme imo:

[intro]
[verse]
If you'...
then you..
you better...
or you'll ...
stop listening...
or you'll ...

[chorus]
k...
j...
ca...
all together one and all
da...

k...
j...
ca...
all together one and all
da...

[outro]
They're ...

here's my prompt, based on lm listen, then adjusted by slop ai search of brave:

A smooth R&B duet built on a virtuoso guitarist prog rock project with nostalgic, slightly lo-fi foundation. The core of the song is a repeating, melodic sample loop accompanied by a steady, laid-back drum groove and a deep, warm bassline. A male and female vocalist trade confident, clear verses with a soulful, mid-tempo cadence; the female voice sits in a bright, medium-high register with empathetic warmth, while the male voice provides a rich, resonant baritone that adds forceful emotional intensity during harmonic exchanges. The choruses are defined by lush, layered harmonies between both singers, replacing DJ scratches with subtle vocal ad-libs and melodic runs. The track maintains a consistent, head-nodding groove throughout, concluding with an atmospheric outro where the beat fades away, leaving behind ethereal synth pads and a soulful Hammond organ solo that slowly fades to silence. rock guitar.

settings are no audio codes (5hz lm not used in genning, I deleted it out of the box)
en, 240 bpm, 120 duration, key "E", 4 time signature, text2music (standard t2a gen), 100 steps, cfg scale 12, shift 1 (I meant to fix this to 7, where I tend to keep it, 3 is ok I think), dcw mode double, dcw 0.0003, high 0.0005, STORK 4, 99 substeps

>>109389705
I meant uploading your locally-generated image to ChatGPT and having it fix or enhance your image works better than I care to admit. And yet I'm still reluctant to do it, because I have a wild theory that in the coming decades, only those who run AI on their own hardware will retain their independence, everyone else will be enslaved

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>>109389682
krea 2 really likes those sponges with scrubby pads ig

>>109389856
ty!!!

>>109389882
oh yeah, using acestep.cpp (the like... um. non-gradio one)

also, um. it's E then the flat sign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_(music)

>>109389904
>>109389882
lm acestep-5Hz-lm-4B-Q8_0.gguf (for lm listen) dit: acestep-v15-xl-base-BF16.gguf, vae: vae-BF16.gguf

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>>109389893
I think I found the wan workflow on comfy

Gonna do some serious gooning tonite :3

It took me forever to dial in dcw, because the correct settings change depending on the number of steps. also, there was a bug in the text boxes, like low was using the high box or something, but that may be fixed. I always use double dcw.

>>109389910
I don't think that's quite "blue board" material.

>>109389893
that makes my skin crawl. idk man.

is there a bigger moment of having peaked in ai genning when you make a program that loads random gens that when you scroll through you basically get reminded of top tier kino you genned some of which you have literally forgor since you didn't see it for more than a couple seconds years ago amidst hundreds of thousands of gens?

infinite gambling and sex addition together.

>>109389919
>I don't think that's quite "blue board" material.
Like I give a fuck.

>>109389921
i am constantly scrolling through my gens while i wait for my kinos to generate

>>109389025
wtf is that lmao

>>109389919
what why?

I've never seen a krea (krea) gen that involved any kind of creative landscape, place, situation etc.

>>109389887
Looks like Italy

>>109389934
a jerafe that needs to go on a dyet

>>109389938
such as?

>>109389938
you wont find it here in 1girl slop land.

there are so many fingering loras but most are shit
is illustrious just cooked for this? skill issue?
need tips
too often girls just finger above their pussyhole

>>109389941
hopefully flux 3 will save us from having to look at this poorshit res with grainy motion, slow motion, 3 seconds hell

>>109389941
Basado

>>109389791
don't use raw.

>>109389934
Leto 2 Karen

>>109389025
lmao

KINO
I
N
O

>>109389951
>narrator: it wont

>>109389950
anon you know girls masturbate by stimulating their clit not just sticking things in there right

>>109389966
why would I know that?

>>109389973
ha ha

>>109389973
virgin lol

>>109389882
>>109389748
Cmon anon, that sound quality is terrible. What tin cans are you listening on? ACEStep XL is good, but not when used with default settings or with bad settings. Not sure what model you're using anon, but I recommend the Base-Turbo merge (DiT-only generation). ACEStep XL is one of the greatest models ever released, but everyone is kind of retarded in how they use it, which is why it gets so much hatred. The Turbo model by itself is not as good as the Turbo-Base merge, that is what causes a metallic sounding voice. The other XL models released suffer from their own sound quality issues across a range of prompts.

I went back to the base model (since I mostly use ACEStep XL with LoRAs) to see how it stands against Qwen Music and Udio
>>109379495
>>109380754

So I concocted a single generic prompt that is similar to the tags in each song,
>This is an energetic and high-octane Pop Rock / Punk Alternative anthem led by a gritty yet melodic female vocal. The track features driving, palm-muted distorted guitars that explode into wide, crashing power chords during the choruses. A punchy, compressed drum kit provides a fast-paced "four-on-the-floor" energy with frequent snare rolls and shimmering crash cymbals. The bass is thick and overdriven, locking tightly with the kick drum. The mood is defiant, youthful, and cathartic, transitioning from rhythmic, conversational verses to soaring, high-intensity vocal hooks. Expect a bright, polished production style reminiscent of late 90s/early 2000s power pop.

Lyrics
https://pastebin.com/2yuYMBn0

The result is pure kino and speaks for itself
Take 1
https://vocaroo.com/1doNaKCyyXqp

Take 2, even better and follows all the lyrics
https://vocaroo.com/1npFR50TcoOo

This is the result without a LoRA... I'd say ACEStep XL is definitely a top contender against closed API models and can do more than most think it can with the prompt engineering and settings.

>>109389973
based

>>109389989
>The Turbo model by itself is not as good as the Turbo-Base merge, that is what causes a metallic sounding voice.

Also, why the devs themselves haven't made this more obvious is beyond me. I know they're working on v2, but something tells me that we weren't supposed to merge it and improve it to this extent since their API offering already offers higher quality sound, so essentially we have sound that competes with Udio/Suno (not instrument or composition wise, but sound quality wise at least), but they're giving us models that are very metallic sounding at first and most will just write the XL model off.

>>109389966
That's definitely delusional...

>>109390002
Wouldnt ltx be already better

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>not being a waitGOD

>>109389989
>Qw
The vocals are fantastic, because it was trained on like those sites that have music for sale for use in commercial junk.

so it's kind of amateurish, which is great.

>>109390015
sorry to ruin porn but a large % of women can't even cum from penetration alone

>>109390018
what are you genning with res_5s?

>>109389989
>Base-Turbo merge
I haven't used that one.

>>109390024
what's the point of sex then?

>>109390025
1girls. Trying my prompts on all models with res nodes, after going through all modern models now I'm doing it with Chroma.

>>109390029
I mean it is kind of a major reason for why women don't like sex as much as men

>>109390029
God commanded us to multiply.

>>109389950
>is illustrious just cooked for this?
use anima

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secret admirer

>>109390047
does anima have more hardcore virgins who also don't know how masturbating works

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>>109390045

>>109390029
I believe that overall the comment is incorrect.

But, the thing is, if your wife needs help, help or whatever. But it's untrue as to the majority, but again, we have to consider whether they are oversexed, for example.

>>109390029
for men to feel good

>>109390048
the person standing gen.

why

>>109390053
you can look up stats on it, it's something crazy like 90% can't cum JUST from penetration, like the bare minimum of rubbing the clit as well or nipples or something is needed

>>109390048
kekd
looks a little too ai though

>1girl
>standing
is the pinnacle of this general

>>109390024
my gf came from penetration for the first time in her life this week.
>>109390029
it still feels good even if they don't cum.

>>109390061
Yeah, but have they seen more than one peepee?

Just saying, we used to have ways of solving problems.

>>109390064
im still tweaking and learning krea properly
messing with raw + turbo lora configs
some come out better than others

>>109390071
the historic way of solving this problem was not giving a shit if your cleaner/cook cummed as well

>>109390069
hwnbaw

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>1girl, floating

>>109390069
I thought girls do not have refractory period and can cum again immediately. What a pile of contradiction the female sex is.

>>109390059
you're not for big booty latinas of america in 2028?

>>109390080
can krea even do below the elbow amputees? Like without the anime bandages?

just stick it in her pooper if she cant coom

>>109390081
idk how that relates but it's true.

>>109390090
nobody cares if it can do that except for you

>>109390069
>my gf came from penetration for the first time in her life this week.
you're welcome, let me know if you need my services again

>>109390090
https://image-b2.civitai.com/file/civitai-media-cache/7ca6b6ea-816d-46dc-a63a-c180eef9c06c/original
yes?

>>109390098
o7

>>109390021
The vocal variety/sound quality in ACEStep is not bad though
https://vocaroo.com/1ca6Q8qm0nUn

The main advantage a model like Qwen Music if it ever releases would have is better instrumental variety (ability to do electronic, etc...) which ACEStep currently struggles with even with a LoRA.

>>109390098
thanks tyquanvius

>>109390084
we need total patriarchy NOW!

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>>109390098
devastating

>>109390080
looks like a Cardos gen.

>>109390109
Of course, see, the reason why lyra sucks is it seems to be entirely based on backing vocals. The pro backing vocal necessarily is painfully vanilla, on time, and highly smoothed out.

What's super cool is ace step will put in breathing quirks because it learned to do that from the amateurs it was trained on.

The only horrible thing about ace step, and it is horrible, is "good=out of range". Already, singers like Ariana Grande, sing out of their vocal register, and that strained sound is "=good". But when people with lesser voices do that, and without much training, it sounds like sort of screaming. That ruins some gens, and it's in the data, unavoidable, maybe.