What went wrong? Why was Japan Tech left behind?In the 80s to 90s they were one of the leading countries in hardware, and even their software was promising.Even up to the early 2000s it felt like they were going to be the leaders in robotics. Three decades later and Japan tech is LMAO-Tier.
>>109407415Labor cost.. it becomes cheaper to make shit elsewhere (china) so manufacturing shifts with labor cost. With it moves technical knowledge cause you know practice makes perfect.China is next btw,. shits getting increasingly cheaper to make elsewhere..
>>109407431Where to? India and South East Asia? Or LatinX countries?
>>109407435>LatinXYou can say latino anon. Its ok. It won't hurt you.
>>109407439I was memeing my dude.I'll just say L*tino from now on.
Plaza Accords, the answer is always the Plaza Accords you stupid imbeciles
japs have bad taste, I can't remember the last time Japan produced any decent software
>>109407435In EU we've seen call center jobs being moved from india to africa > their english is better and some of them speak french. Maybe tech support lacking behind but hey > etheopians are cheaper than jeets and education is improving
>>109407415They tried to sell the latest cnc machines to the ussr in the 80s. America took the Japanese company responsible to court. They never recovered because japan had and has to abide by american set rules
>>109407415US sabotaged them. Read up on the lost decades and plaza accords.
>>109407495/thread
Steve jobs visited the Japanese factories and said " I want this but here". He then built the factories in the USA or mexico, I can't recall correctly, and never went to Japan again.
>>109407415With low interest rates they had little pressure to succeed, they simply undercut the US and that was all that mattered, but now China is subsidizing everything to run at a loss.Also just being old was enough to be super rich in Japan and that's fucking bullshit
>>109407495>Plaza AccordsMeme. The equivalent of retards mentioning Dodge v Ford whenever corporations do something stupid.
>>109407415they were so far ahead in the 80s, that M$ cried to the US government who threatened their politicians to close their tech sectors.
>>109407415Japan has been living in year 2000 since the eighties
>>109407512>some of them speak frenchThere is more africans french speakers in Africa than people in France.
the japanese are actually responsible for why humanoid robots are a thing today, they have cornered the cycloidal drive market, i don't know why retards in this board keep spamming this shit about japan being left behind in technology, they also dominate industrial robotics, they dominate the primary semiconductor market, they dominate the electrical and mechanical tool market, basically any machine used to make other machines, they with germany dominate these markets, china is the pretty girl buying the pretty dress
The Plaza Accord is just one of the contributing factor. The real one is the tech targetting sanctions US did to Japan.The major Japanese techs banded together establishing the VLSI Technology Research Association in 1976, that allowed them to push for various upcoming and existing techs like Dram. In Dram case, they were able to made them much cheaper. At their peak, they hold 93% of dram marketshares in 1993. If they were still around, you would be buying Toshiba and Hitachi dram modules and not Samsung/Sk Hynix.First, the major tech companies were targetted. Toshiba was neutered by the US with the Toshiba–Kongsberg scandal in 1987, effectively barred from your normal business operation. Fujitsu was blocked from acquiring US Fairchild semiconductor in1987. Hitachi and Mitsubishi were charged for stealing the newest IBM machine in 1982.Japan signed tech sharing deal, so all Japanese innovations must be shared with american companies, completely removing their lead in technologyUS put up 100% tariff on Japanese goods in 1987 together with the plaza accord killed their price competitivenessSoftware development are also blocked, especially if it has potential to challenge US software. BTRON OS was not made into school standard due to pressure from U.S. Trade Representative
>>109407435We will just build clanker sweatshops in western countries. Enslaving non-whites is deprecated.
>>109407415They didn't import Indians. They're trying to right that wrong now.
>>109408549how come the US did this for japan but for China was just like "this is fine.jpg"
>>109407415>plaza accordslurk more before posting
>>109407415Japan lost.So they had to suck the cock of the Victor.TOTAL. USA. DOMINANCE. Japanese should bow in the presence of their conquerors.
>>109407415>doesn't know the toilet company Toto is integral to wafer production due to the quality of its ceramics.Get good noob.
>>109407415Japanese industry is a pyramid scam. I mean that literally. The US went apeshit over a couple industries getting bailed out in 2008, Japan has had a continuous bailout ever since Black Monday in the 80s. The Japanese government is the largest asset holder in Japan. What that means is the Government decides which businesses succeed or fail, not customers, not industry, not the market. It takes no talent or even good management to have the Japanese government simply keep your failing company afloat with all of its management in upper positions. You just need friends in high places. This is why people were freaking out over Trumponomics and him buying US Assets to keep US Industry domestic. It's a death spiral that results in the industry gladly agreeing to be 30-40 years out of date, and they still export all the labor anyway to save a few government cents. Most Japanese companies are based out of SEA.
>>109407431No actually it was a debt crisis. Manufacturing cost in Japan is still low due to really low interest rates and weak yen. They couldn't get the foreign investment they needed to keep making infrastructure upgrades so they just stayed with what they had and got outdated.
>>109407495>Waaaa why can't we keep our currency artificially weak and decimate overseas industries which are more innovative than us
>>109409204These, overall, didn't impact Japan's industry much, what did was the end of the bubble economy and the Asian market crisis of the 90s, and that was 100% self-inflicted.Look at this chart, the Plaza Accords aren't even a bump in the road compared to their overvalued assets crashing.
>>109407495 read >>109409653The asset bubble did more damage than the Plaza accords ever did, doubled with their banks failing (another self-inflicted cause of poor management)
>>109407415I remember someone saying that in Japan, being a programmer is an embarrassing, low status job. Not like in the USA where it's a step below doctor, lawyer but still respected, but just like, it had a really bad reputation. You'd be embarrassed to admit it. Does anyone know if this is true?
>>109409191Because China manufactures everything the US uses and if they piss them off too much more or less every sector in the US will suffer astronomically.
>>109409797Not true at all. Maybe if you mean a data entry job, but other than that, most IT-related jobs have good reputations.
>>109407415they are just chilling unlike ameritrannies and chinese fighting for "trannylogy advancements" that is getting worse anyways so who the fuck cares about "advancements" if today it's just the same as saying "enshittifying"
Japan abandoned consumer electronics to Korea/Taiwan/Vietnam/ChinaInstead they went all in on high-end academic R&D for dual use technologiesIt's why Japan is in GCAP today.They spent 30-40 years developing advanced GaN TRMs for radars, 2nm lithography for chip production, silicon carbide enhanced airframe tiles for stealth, a manned 5th gen demonstrator in 2016, the XF5-1 and XF9-1 demonstrator military engines, etc, etc.Japan stayed high tech where it matters most, defense.
>>109407415What was the PC OS project that was supposed to revolutionize the World before Big Unc USA stepped in, threatened to bust Nip balls so hard they completely abandoned it and never tried again?
>>109407415japan has humanoid robots working in most middle class households and their cheaper cars have better self driving than teslas, dunno what you are on about retard
back thenhttps://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1785429388357303.webmnowhttps://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1785429464069653.webm
>>109411031man they didnt have pixels back then huh?
>>109411158those days everything video was tape.
>>109407415Japan continues to manufacture a vast array of "boring" ones. They are so boring that they are practically invisible to you.
>>109407415Traditional culture stifling innovation. Japan's economic miracle boom in the the latter 20th century was just a brief period of strong Western influence.
>>109412835Not really, they've maintained a top 5 economy for like 40 years straight.They might not have AMAZING growth, but they're "stagnant" at the highest echelon and have been there for decades, that has allowed them to amass incredibly deep financial reserves, while simultaneously developing high tech defense technologies without going bankrupt. >>109410569
>>109409797No, being a wage slave is an embarrassing job because it has no future, no ceiling. If you're working in the beehives, you'll never be a queen. Programmer is just another type of worker bee, there's nothing wrong with being a programmer, but it's a suit job with no advancement. You'll never go from Programmer to CEO unless you know someone. The real CEOs and bosses are rubbing shoulders with members of the diet in their off-time.
>>109410201China also has way fewer scruples about just outright cheating. They straight-up steal US designs and then make up shit about "Well, a Chinese person needs to report this infringement!" and then never address it. Japan couldn't do that for very long, they tried and got slapped with legislation. They are a colony of the USA.
>>109412864Japan has brain drain because lack of opportunities, low salaries, and low social mobility.
>>109407415This>>109407495 and the fact that their English teachers are dogshit with no signs of improvement
>>109413064You are conflating a demographic birth rate crisis with a brain drain.Japan consistently ranks among the lowest in the world for brain drain (scoring around 2.4 out of 10). A Japanese salary looks lower on paper when converted directly to USD, but that ignores the fact that healthcare is universal and highly affordable, housing costs in Tokyo are a fraction of those in San Francisco, New York, or London, and public transit removes the massive financial burden of car ownership.You're talking out of your ass.
>>109412875Trvth Nvke
>>109413126It's pretty high among other developed countries, almost twice the rate of the US.https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/brain-drain-countriesThere's no need to be angry.
>>109413524You are fundamentally misinterpreting how index scoring works to manipulate the data. The human flight and brain drain index operates on a 0 to 10 scale (where 0 is the absolute best retention). The US scores a 1.4, and Japan scores a 2.4, meaning both are in the absolute most elite tier globally for keeping their talent, well below the global average of 5.0.Saying Japan has twice the rate because 2.4 is higher than 1.4 is like saying someone who got a 96% on a test failed twice as bad as someone who got a 98%. Furthermore, Japan's 2.4 score places it right alongside the UK (2.3) and Italy (2.2). The US is a global outlier because it acts as a talent vacuum for the entire planet; it is not the baseline for a normal developed country.again, you're talking out of your ass, and at this point I assume you're korean.
>>109413558>The US is a global outlier because it acts as a talent vacuum for the entire planetLol, calling the US an outlier is just pure cope. The reason there's more people going to the US is that there are more opportunities. >Japan's 2.4 score places it right alongside the UK (2.3) and Italy (2.2). You are comparing Japan to irrelevant countries on the world stage. There are no impactful discoveries or technical innovations happening in those countries.
>>109409653>stock market
>>109413689>the only countries that matter are the handful I decide matter, the rest are irrelevant no matter where they place on the rankingslollmao evenbaka desu senpai
>>109407415Jeeted if western trash leftists aren't bad enough.
>>109407439Not him but I started using latinx (latinckxs) after leftoids decided not to use it and after I found out it makes various latinckses mad
>>109407415Failure of fifthu generation computing!!Also the banks fucked their economy hard and they no longer had money to invest in such things.
>>109413954You're the one who's doing that by dismissing the US as an "outlier". Fact is Japan, UK, and Italy are less desirable countries to move to than the US. Comparing them with 3rd world countries would be like professional athletes competing in the special olympics.
>>109414442try to keep up
>>109414624How the fuck is the US NOT an outlier...?It's literally the definition of an outlier.
>>109414636HispanicYou're welcome.
>>109407435>Where to? India and South East Asia?China purposefully keeps some regions poor so they can "outsource" to them. However, these regions are inland, so the comparative advantage is allowing Vietnam to take over as they don't have the associated costs. This is why China is ballsdeep in train infrastructure. India tried, but Modi is a retarded spiritual monkey and tried to put a man on the moon instead of finishing up his "poo in the loo" campaign.
>>109407495It's this. Japan was (and mostly still is) a vassal of the US, and the US pulled the leash with these accords. Ultimately japan was forbidden from truly competing in the imperial contest.>>109409653Are you telling me that major economic policy shifts don't act instantly and can have long term impacts?>>109413558>The US is a global outlier because it acts as a talent vacuum for the entire planetThe US is the imperial hegemon, of course it is an "outlier". Well it is for the time being anyway, the one history has made certain to us is that hegemony works to undo itself.
>>109415742>It's this. Japan was (and mostly still is) a vassal of the USThen why is the US letting them build a 6th gen fighter?Why is the US working directly with japan as a peer on AI, CCA, and combat cloud development? Seems a weird position to take with your vassal.
>>109407431>Labor cost.. it becomes cheaper to make shit elsewherecouldn't we just have an economy built on top of a well compensated highly educated workforce? especially as more and more unskilled work is automated? why do industries move from country to country like fucking parasites? developed countries should tax the fuck out of any company moving manufacturing to a turd world shit hole
>>109415772Because they're going to sic them on China obviously. Same reason they're letting Ukraine build Patriot missiles.
>>109418923Yes, but they're not treating Ukraine as a peer.They're not letting ukraine DEVELOP the patriot missiles.They're letting japan co-develop the highest end combat cloud, AI, and CCA tech directly with US firms.Japanese super computers and research labs are connecting and working directly with their US counterparts. Hell, Japan is being treated better than a Five Eyes ally at the moment.
>>109407415new tech is all surveillance capitalismJapan wisely does not want that
>>109409191What can US do to China?
Know your history. Are you American? You fuckers forced Japan to sign the Plaza Accord because they were too competitive, which made the Yen appreciate like a motherfucker, then Japan couldn't export shit to the rest of the globe anymore, which triggered a massive recession which fucked them forever. Their economy survived on massive stimulus packages since then.
>>109419680You realize ~95%+ of nations on earth would kill a million women and children to have the japanese economy...right?
>>109419764You are 30 years late with that statement.
>>109419796Anon...you're a retard.Just because they haven't had amazing growth doesn't mean their economy is shit lmao.You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
>>109419806YOU literally have no idea what YOU are talking about. Going by your image, India is a desirable place of residency you absolute fucking retard. And if you want to go by some "meme" statistic, at least go by home ownership or something.
>>109419764So that justifies their lack of growth caused by your fucking scheming? They even have a name for this shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_DecadesFuck off with your rationalization. "Japan isn't a hellhole yet, so what's the harm?"Diabolical.
>>109419835Again, we're NOT talking about a place you want to live, we're talking about a nation's economic capability.Objectively, India has a decent economy, that's a fact. Many nations would LOVE to have their economy.>>109419839If your entire argument is "You're not the US, CHina, or 3-4 other european nations so you're shit" then you're basically just saying EVERY country is shit. Japan has over 1 trillion dollars in foreign exchange reserves, they're one of the worlds largest creditors. You're both retards.
>>109412864Hello, retard. I don't like Poland but for sure morons like you will jerk off to the indomitable Polish spirit and the Polish zaibatsus with the same fervor you have jerking off to Japan today, right?
>>109422208>if I totally misinterpret all the data in my favor then I can do anything i want.You've been doing that already with the US, so feel free, you clearly have no grasp of economics on a macro scale. Enjoy whatever fantasy narrative you invent for yourself.
>>109417296You can't compete with slave labor
>>109415772>>109418934That still doesn't mean the US is treating Japan as a peer.
>>109414650You haven't provided any reason on why the US in particular is an outlier.
>>109422226>It's totally ok to have Poland catching up with us per capita-wise, and it doesn't matter how much money we borrow because we can borrow again to service the debt or print even more money!
>>109407415Everybody in Japan is just too old now. You need those youthful, spongy brains to cleverly assemble all that complex math used in machine learning.
>>109407415we (us) unironically killed their chip industry only to give the keys to korea and taiwan, which are both china-adjacent. A great diplomatic fuck up like giving up all our magnet tech to china that we need for missiles
>>109407439The goal is to turn the supposed gender-neutral politically correct term invented by the leftists into a slur.
>>109414636But see they want to be called that and it's woke and gay, so I refuse to call them that. It's only funny if they don't like it, like latincks. Maybe I could call them latrines as a compromise.
>>109407415>Nation gets rich>Nation becomes decadent and lazy>Nation falls behind and collapsesmany such cases
>>109414636Latrine... Has a nice ring to it.
>>109407415Too much bureaucracy and corporate cuckery.
>>109407415Outcompeted by Taiwan, South Korea, and later on China.Plus their protectionist policies discouraged innovation on that front too.
>>109407415Money went flat in the 80s but it took a couple decades for the full force of that to be felt. The money is still flat, and that would be fine for people to live a modest lifestyle if they didn't still have the 80-somethings sucking up every last cent of profit and hanging onto all the worthwhile IPs and opportunities. But 'new' business has largely fled, what they've got is what they've got. They can only redistribute it among themselves now.
>>109424359>Korea and Taiwan, which are both China-adjacentAnon, the entire point of the exercise is that the whole of East Asia is the US's back yard, not China's. We're systematically walling China off from the ocean and segregating China from any land-based trading partners by removing their countries from the map (Russia, Iran) so that China is no longer a threat, economically or otherwise.The whole planet belongs to America, all of you just live here.
>>109425194Is that why US can't reindustrialize? lol
>>109419626Import Indians are beat China in tech
>>109425194How is that Hormuz thing going lmao
>>109407415they squise out white blood
>>109407415>*mogs every american automobile manufacturer*I dunno bro
cyber lexus
Like the old saying goes, Japan has been stuck in the 2000s since the late 1980s.It's really sad.
>>109428070By the way, being stuck in the 2000s wouldn't be so bad if they also kept the good parts.Sadly wokeness, DEI and mass migration are slowly creeping in, and Japan's anime and pop culture is dying, as well as their amazing auto enthusiast culture since cars everywhere are turning into smartphones with wheels.
/g/ approved souvenirs if you travel to Japan?
>>109407415Maybe they were not left behind. Maybe they just knew to stop at the sweet spot.The 80s were full of a feeling of progress: VCRs, home computers, Walkmen, SF movies with lots of tech styling. :D it was neat!The 90s had more powerful computers with IDE drives, huge amounts of ram (as much as four MEG of ram on some machines!). Hard drives were both capacious and affordable People could assemble custom-made computers from commonly available pieces (ram, HD, case, et.c). Software was available on CDs. Digital audio production and storage was a thing. Tech was still fun, yet at the same time, the corporate world could get things done.After that? Spyware, Codes of conduct. Software as a service. Updates that brick the firmware. Cell phones. Data breaches.Maybe the Japanese know something we don't and stopped advancing tech, freezing tech at its best, peak, must useful, most enjoyable, level!
