You don't need vulkan.
>>109563201>im too retarded to understand how the gpu worksGood for you, OP.
>>109563201This thread again?
>>109563243fappybrappy.
>>109563201Show me where OpenGL achieves better performance than Vulkan.
>>109563201> I love my shit ass trianglesWe should bring eugenics back
>>109563365opengl can render anything (You) can throw at it with 999FPS
>>109563483Benchmarks?
>>109563201>implying I need a gpu and a snowflake apiWe're converging toward a future with MOAR CORES BIGGER SIMD therefore the future is software rendering.
>>109563201>deprecated
>>109563201if you take opengl es 3.0 it's truly cross-platform, you really don't need more.
>>109563574Only when the 299 usd walmart laptop has a 192 cores and 200 gb/s of memory bandwidth.
>>109563201OpenGL is hard to use, due to, for example, all the global states. It's also supposedly hard for the driver vendor to optimize for. That's why Vulkan was created.
You can implement opengl on top of vulkan
>>109563243Show me on this graph where the "gpu" is, in your "low-level" graphics api
>>109565369Everything colored blue is the gpu
>>109563365https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HF2WPcHqUbut with enough work you can make vulkan just as good or better than opengl.but a mobile/VR headset chip's is that your CPU is equal to a budget (but strong) desktop CPU like a 7600x / apple m4, but your GPU is about as weak a steamdeck.That's a important note because the main benefit of vulkan is AZDO, which is basically short for vulkan has a lower CPU overhead (for example, the opengl driver for my Nvidia GPU has a background thread + extra threads for compiling shaders, vulkan doesn't, so the opengl driver is just doing more to increase throughput on a single thread compared to vulkan)
>>109565550>CPU is equal to a budget (but strong) desktop CPU like a 7600x / apple m4,*Well, it's about as equal as you would expect a 5-10 watt chip would be. The CPU isn't going to be doing much anyways, since it's going to be spending most of it's time waiting for the GPU to finish up, and doing anything expensive on the CPU will only cause the GPU to take longer since the GPU needs to constantly read memory from ram.
>>109565428Okay, so what are the other colors then, mr. "Smarty pants"
>>109563201I still use opengl 2.1
>>109566523Green and gray
>>109563201I don't think most people should use Vulkan directly, instead use something like ANGLE/SDL_gpu, or WebGPU.OpenGL is still fine for educational purposes, but it shouldn't really be used for any new serious projects.[spoiler]I wish graphics wasn't such a disaster.[/spoiler]
If you do everything in OpenGL, it will run everywhere because everybody still supports it somehow. If you use Vulkan your shit won't run on Metal or DirectX or whatever the scene is, I no longer care because OpenGL is all you need.
>>109563201vulkan has dynamic rendering now, you can stop screeching
>>109565550I'm not watching a 52 minute video. Show me benchmarks of OpenGL outperforming Vulkan.
>>109563365You don't need performance bro, you're a lone sad little twink in your basement drawing two triangles with one poorly written shader and some copy pasted screen space processing, you're neither a AAA studios of hundreds of devs crafting a scene for 6 month to run smoothly on your potato device, nor a demoscener that might hack something cool out of your overpriced hardware. OpenGL 1.2 is fast enough for you boy.
>>109566583Based accumulation buffer bro.
>>109566633WebGPU is soooo fine I made my vulkan renderer a partial rendition of it.
>>10956683690% of people needing 3d in their app don't need anything else than OpenGL. Younglings are larping over vulkan because they have wetdreams of making the next big things out of their single hands, and because it's the hype and new thibgs., but really it's made for low Kevel programmer and computationally serious applications.Hell before 1.3, albeit there was some neat extensions the things was a nightmare to setup properly for dynamic rendering.OpenGL 4.6 and es 3.1 are still neat and let peoples grape CG concepts if they need to dig deeper later on. It's more than fine.
>>109566999how many people do you think i'd've cut off from playing if i made my dream game in vulkan 1.3
>>109563574We’re converging toward you renting cloud access on a tablet terminal you also don’t own.
>>109566915The video has benchmarks showing opengl backend of godot running faster than vulkan.The benchmarks are not conclusive but it clearly shows that vulkan is not a free win.Also at the end they mention that vulkan has a foveated rendering and subsample layout feature, opengl has multiple VRS extensions (but I think only Nvidia's VRS extension works for Foveated rendering for opengl, I thnk you need Vulkan if you want a unified Foveated Rendering extension for Intel/AMD, since the other opengl VRS extensions apply to the whole framebuffer I think? and there is a QCOM extension for Foveated rendering (maybe AMD/Intel support if it's not an ES extension?), AND there is a GL_QCOM_texture_foveated_subsampled_layout which handles the subsample layout mentioned in the video, but it's only for mobile, but I think the vulkan subsample layout is mobile only too).So yeah, opengl is pretty awful for VR. But it's nice to know there is a "path" and like I said, the opengl driver is just doing extra work compared to vulkan, which may either work well or backfire (since it makes things really hard to optimize when different platforms have completely different performance problems, and it might be caused by a shitty opengl Driver, but vulkan is does very little for you, well newer vulkan versions have been adding in dynamic state similar to opengl, so maybe it's as easy as opengl now?).
>>109567221Isn’t VR a failed technology?
>>109563201Based and true anon(I am mad my gpu is too old to support vulkan - radeon HD 6450A)
>>109563365It was only valid when you do ollama with vulkan, more token per second, but with opengl less token per second by a huge margin.
>>109563201Most old software has code base that is optimised for opengl and not readily compatible with vulkan. Vulkan is make for new software.
All employed people use DirectX, CopenGL and Vulkuck is from trannies.
>>109563201this but unironically.i have never seen anything bottlenecked by api dispatch. dx12 and vulkan solve a problem that isn't there.
>>109569081no one uses directx directly. stop larping, tranny. employed people use es.
Why the fuck would an indie dev making pixel 2d shit need vulkan?
vulkan isn't necessary if your application is compute bound and not spending much time in the driver
>>109567010Depending on the platform you are aiming for, around 40% being conservative:https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/displaycoreproperty.php?platform=windows&name=apiversionBut you can use 1.1 with common extensions that emulate the better part of 1.3 like dynamic rendering, this is what I've done for a time.Also it's worth noting that the demographic you are aiming for is likely part of the 60% that have Vulkan 1.3 or higher.
>>109563243>he needs a gpu
>>109569727It's a hype / parasocial group thing among young developers on the internet.That being said, if you're serious about compute graphics at some point you want to play with the last extensions and not want to be left out, like ray tracing or mesh shaders, without having to learn again or making yet another 'engine'. So it does make sense.But realistically, unless you're in a niche industry, you don't need anything else than OpenGL. I know for one things having hardware accelerated video processing with Vulkan is a nightmare on Android (or anywhere for that matter) compared to OpenGL.
>>109569122The first half of your post implies its notably faster at dispatch but then imply that being faster at dispatch is bad because it's not a problem you currently face. I'd rather not have the bottleneck in the first place than wait for it to arise as a problem and then hope they solve it after I needed it. I don't understand why something being more optimal would be construed as negative.
>>109563201Id like to use proton (dxvk, vkd3d), so yes I do
>>109569140>t.roonyou are unemployed
>>109566836>OpenGL, it will run everywhere macos only supports up to ogl 4.1, and theyre removing support for it completely soon
>>109569857anyone who buys into macos deprecation treadmill deserves what they get.
>>109569790very good pointsI think vulkan evangelists forget that vidja development isn't the only use case for gpu accelerationsure, if you're working for big corpo game company writing the rendering engine for open world sloppa game #139856, then you'll need a low overhead graphics api to contend with the insane complexity of modern geometry and shading pipelinesbut if you're writing a video codec, a digital art program, a video player, an image editor, or pretty much anything else that only does 2d graphics, then your entire graphics pipeline will basically just be setting up gpu state and running some compute shaders, and in that case vulkan will have little to no performance benefit over opengl
Don't forget what they took from you.
>>109570035sovl
I went for this https://github.com/floooh/sokol, which is basically a single header shim and you can compile an OpenGL or Vulkan (or Metal) version of your program.
>>109569857GL es 3.0 works on Apple through Angle.Desktop GL is theoretically possible by running Mesa's Zink ontop of MoltenVK (a Vulkan to Metal translation layer). https://www.phoronix.com/news/Mesa-22.0-Build-macOS-ZinkBut I have personally noticed a significant FPS drop with Zink on windows (but unlike Apple's GL driver, zink has opengl mesh shaders)
>>109563201What are some cute things I can make with OpenGL? Where can I find small bite-sized tutorials to do cute things like a hill with trees, water, etc?
>>109573578bump because im stuck here doing mountains of code for a gay triangle (actual gay rainbow triangle)
>>109573612its not gay unless you did it in rust
>>109573578I've been meaning to follow this tutorial for ages, checked the latter videos and it looks kino.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS8wlS9hF8E&list=PLRIWtICgwaX0u7Rf9zkZhLoLuZVfUksDP
>>109563201The remaining use cases for opengl are>browsers (webgl has far wider support than webgpu)>old and/or shitty android phonesFor everything else it's best avoided. It's kind of painful to use (even loading it and getting to the point where you can call glClear requires either a gazillion lines of boilerplate or a third party library), doesn't play well with multithreading, is basically a giant state machine, and unless you use extensions it doesn't even support binary shaders. On Windows it doesn't support HDR output without some unholy workarounds. Basically it's just a second-class, sometimes third-class citizen in every way.If you don't need or want to work at the lowest level with vulkan/d3d12/etc, you're probably best off using a multi-API wrapper/RHI.Depending on your exact needs you could look at something like SDLGPU, Diligent Engine, sokol_gfx, or bgfx.
>>109563365raymarching shaders, it's about 15% faster
>>109563483So can vulkan. The only difference is vulkan gives you better control over the gpu
>>109570035Nobody took that from me. I still program like that.
Vulkan sucks on old NVIDIA GPUs. OpenGL is still king for them.
>>109570035with all the 'low poly' indieslop floating around, this is an eminently modern and reasonable coding style. also has the benefit of being able to run on windows 95.
>>109573578these days nobody will give you a better classic opengl tutorial than LLMs.it will even be personalized for your preferred development environment, be it windows macos or linux.it has eminent knowledge of the APIs, which are available in which OpenGL versions, edge cases, etc.old school development + SOTA LLMs is actually very comfy. personal greybeard oldhat unc advisor.
>>109574676only to get started. AI sucks at any attention span bigger than a book name drop
>>109574648Too bad indieslop just uses retro shaders on a modern API.
>>109569831larping tranny. real graphics programmers work on mobile.
>>109574320OpenGL will always be the C of GPUs and everything will always have to support or emulate it, even if its old. Some day the GPU makers and OS people will come up with a "final OpenGL profile" wrapping it up but also, agreeing to support it forever. Uncle Sam has legacy software you see...
>>109563201It's literally OpenGL but better.
I use OpenGL ES + ANGLE.
>>109566999>You don't need vulkan cuz of like, ad hominem andShut the fuck up, retard.
>>109574988this is why you use it to teach you, not as a search engine
>>109578764to teach and as a search engine, not to acutally code. i'm retarded
