>network effect

People have been conditioned into thinking that there should only be 1 website and 1 private messaging platform in the world.
People think more is better: more users and more content.
They don't understand the result of more users is that it's harder to make friends, and the result of infinite content is brainfog and doomscrolling without acually giving a fuck about the content.

When people encounter a new site they think they're expected to migrate and abandon their current digs.
Why can't you just use all of them?
>youtube is better than odysee
Why can't you use both?

>>109585927
>Like whenever I tell people Discord might not be the most user-friendly platform anymore
You're just a pretentious asshole. If you told me shit like that unprompted I'd just block you. You're exactly like a fucking jenovah witness.

>>109586156
>jenovah
* Janova

>>109586156

>just rage again

Didn't I predict in my opening post that you'd get hostile and violent towards me just from insinuating that I've made a website / app ?

Can you calm your emotions down to a level where you could explain to me what prompts this uncontrolled PMS rampage?
For instance, tell me in which ways I'm a "fucking pretentious asshole" who deserves to be blocked and Zuckerberg, Musk, Tiktok guy, new Moot etc. are not.

t. OP

>>109586156

Are you saying your app of choice is a personal decision that defines your life to such a degree that you'd compare it to a religion?
Jesus man.

>>109585927
Zoomers don't know how links or files or the internet or the web works so of course it makes some things harder. But 'fuck off with your shit reddit clone' means you have an upboot system or other nonsense. The problem is you're conflating many things together though they are different issues.

Here's a tip for a start: identify what problem you are solving with your forum or whatever. What is it doing that can't be done better elsewhere? If your answer is "we have better users" well you're fully banking on network effect alone. You will have to use another approach, such as maybe start by making a thin interface to another community or communities and bridging messages across them, but applying your special rules to incoming and outgoing message to curate their content in such a way that can showcase the quality standards you hold.

Otherwise, you can absolutely win on technical grounds. You need to learn patience, 4chan did not succeed in 1 day and neither will you. But so long as you have an edge, it will work out. If you solve nothing, then go cry about it somewhere else though.

>>109585948
People readily use multiple sites - if there is a reason to. People use youtube and they use 4chan (for example). God forbid, some even use, dare I say, redd!t along with 4chan despite both being text-based forums in the end.
People just don't migrate if there is no reason to because they can get everything else where they already are.

>>109586156
wtf dude what are you even angry about

>>109586777

Thank you anon. My website sort of tackles many if not most of the issues of social media. I'm shit at marketing so I don't know which of these to make the main point of my site. I just code.

>non-profit so it doesnt need to collect your data and addict you (fixes the typical toxic dynamic of social media business models)
>open source (transparent)
>has been coded without modern frameworks so it's ultra lightweight and runs on devices almost 20 years old (fixes planned obsolence and the e-waste problem where people toss away phones every 2 years because tiktok no longer works)

Basically I'm attempting to offer all the basic services people use daily (dm's, content posting, making new communities) but without the catch.
Someone told me I should market this lightweight social media to developing countries where people might have poor Internet connection and old devices.

>>109586868

Also, I've been told in the past that Mastodon and Bluesky already exist
But I dont think that's a good way to think about these things. Otherwise we end up on the "there is only 1 website in the world" path again.
The web should be a patchwork of small sites people have made by themselves.
I dont even want millions of users and I think it's dumb.
There should be a hardcap of like 10k users and then the site won't accept new registrations.

>>109586868
You are building a solution in search of a problem. You are describing technical (even the entity structure you emphasize its TECHNICAL merits over other options) benefits of what you're doing, but not how that addresses any problem, or how that aligns to what people want to do. In other words, you're thinking about everything backward.

The point of a forum is to exchange messages. Typically, those are text messages between multiple people, with tree-like organization.

People use forums for various reasons: for entertainment, for exchanging information, to learn things, to socialize, etc.

Thus, a better forum is one that is better along one of the above dimensions. For example, one that allows sharing entertainment easier, such as with better integration in video sites and videogames with an overlay system and the ability to quick-screenshot and caption; or one that makes it easier to have deep conversations because the edit forms are optimize for that format (no keeping a tab of the thread and another tab for the reply as in phpbb sites, nor having to reshape the QR box on 4chan, etc.) with integration for better pdf and website preview/inline annotation/whatever; or you find out a good way to let people simultaneously share contact details such as steam or discord IDs while posting fully anonymously otherwise.

These are 'better mousetrap' ideas. These work, though they're a hard sell because you have to be at least 10x better than the next better option to win.

Otherwise you have to identify a problem with forums. To me, that would be low quality posts (twitter screencaps, ragebait spam, etc.) and the lack of places where it's possible to have a nuanced discussion (instead of 'ur dum no ur dum' or 'ur politician is senile no ur politician is senile' spam garbage).

Then you have to prove how that can't happen on your site, without saying "trust me bro" (that is a very hard problem, obviously).

>>109586903
Mastodon is basically a system where everyone makes a small site, but the small sites can talk to each other. It was a good point.

>There should be a hardcap of like 10k users and then the site won't accept new registrations.
10k is generally not enough to have any kind of discussion in an international community. It only works if you're looking at super local stuff. Consider how many topics can even exist that people might be looking to discuss, and the level of each discussion, and the subtopics... and people can just go anywhere else to have it all then.

>>109586978
Yeah even niche subreddits will have more than 10k subscribers and have less than 10 posts a day.

Platforms facilitating general comms don't succeed, since there's no purpose to them. Specialized places with a discussion topic can succeed, but something that relies on people generating the topics are too general for people to bother.

>>109586978
>>109587003

I spent my entire youth on phpBB forums with 100 to 10k registered members.
I've never made as much friends. Befriending people on megasites is a myth. We didn't evolve to know a million people.

>>109586960

>the lack of places where it's possible to have a nuanced discussion (instead of 'ur dum no ur dum' or 'ur politician is senile no ur politician is senile' spam garbage).

I think this is the biggest issue online.
Name one website where people have intelligent discussions. No, 4chan doesn't count. Even 4chan collapses into "ur dum no ur dum" shit very fast under certain conditions.
It's like civil discussion on the Internet is physically impossible.
I once proposed a website where you get banned for ad hominem but anons said it would restrict freedom of speech.

>>109587146
The problem is always the same: how do you ensure the ad hom is really true ad hom (i.e. will the mod fly off the handle if someone calls someone else a nigger as part of a post explaining the nature of the disagreement? That wouldn't be ad hom but you can never trust power-hungry mods in practice).

Nobody wants or has ever wanted FOSS social media

>>109586868
>>non-profit so it doesnt need to collect your data and addict you (fixes the typical toxic dynamic of social media business models)
>>open source (transparent)
>>has been coded without modern frameworks so it's ultra lightweight and runs on devices almost 20 years old (fixes planned obsolence and the e-waste problem where people toss away phones every 2 years because tiktok no longer works)
Nobody cares about any of this shit

>>109587146
That's a human problem not a technology problem

>>109587281
Tons want it, but it already exists and the real problems are >>109587299
>>109586960

>>109585927
That's because your social media and discord clones are shit. Glad I could help.

>>109585927
>I offer no value and am surprised people don't care

>>109585927
> Back then it was "build it and they will come"
People will still consume copious amounts of porn even today, is there any evidence to the contrary? Well yes most of the platforms that weren't very specific had porn.

>>109587343
>Tons want it
No they don't
Barely any people care about this shit, you just live in an online bubble of freetards who feel the same way you do
That's a very small fraction of the population

>>109586743
he wont admit it but people literally replaced brands with religion.

Also i found it always strange how all npcs seemingly got the signal to use discord at the same time when it was still a tiny platform nobody used and they only use disc now refusing to use anything else newer.

I think the real underlying cause is npcs react only to perceived popularity. If you want to sell your new thing you have to market is as the hot new thing everyone is doing.

>>109585927
The trick is not making shit for other people but rather only for yourself then letting others use it if they really feel like it (and not caring if they whine about it).

>>109587404
>Also i found it always strange how all npcs seemingly got the signal to use discord at the same time when it was still a tiny platform nobody used and they only use disc now refusing to use anything else newer.
You think it's strange that humans act in social groups? Really?

>>109587508
they were already in a social group on the existing platforms. There was no reason to mass migrate to discord. By definition disc was the smaller platform at the start of it and they still migrated to it. Demanding you use it to if you want to talk to them.

>>109587535
social groups migrate otherwise we'd all still be living in caves
you don't understand basic human behaviour

>>109587586
Houses are improved caves.
What improvement was disc?

>>109586960
If I understood correctly, you're saying we should ask the people what they want. Fix some social problem before implementing tech. I think this is backwards. If you ask the users, they will want more Tiktoks. Faster, bigger, more lootboxes, more bloatware.
No, man. We absolutely need to start with sustainable tech and then make people understand why they should want it.
What people want and what they SHOULD WANT are two different things.
And yes this is the part where I lose the audience because people literally just want to have their current needs catered to, for free.
But you have to understand that to fix social problems, like male loneliness, people want more dating apps, not realizing that dating apps made them lonely in the first place. People are not social engineering experts. Web devs are.

>>109587281
>>109587299
Read what I just wrote above. Yes, you want Tiktok 2.0, but I don't think it's a good idea to make one. I make things I want to see in the world. I don't want to see more Tiktoks and slop.

>>109587354
Care to provide any arguments or is this just "ur dum" tier shit already?

>>109587404
This is 100% accurate.
I remember when Skype was mainstream but Discord marketed itself as the cool underground place for gamers. Now it's as mainstream as can be.

>>109587660
Discord's a big improvement over Skype and MSN Messenger

>>109587688
>I make things I want to see in the world.
That's great, why are you complaining when others don't want the things you want

Yeah well I coded a software that's like teamspeak that works on web and received basically zero support

So yeah I can relate

People are the way they are and that's why world looks like it does but I try to make my peace with it

>>109587691

Discord is basically just IRC with fancy CSS and a surveillance camera watching you.
It's nothing new mate.

>>109585927
back in 2004 niggercattle didn't have internet, they went and fucked drunk whores in frathouses
market your shit to other nerds, just like you did in 2k4, or shut the fuck up about goyim not wanting to touch your site
also, delete discord, it's worse than reddit

>>109587721
>new thing is just old thing with new things added to it
are you retarded?

>>109587379
This. Maybe its been too long for some, or people are too young to know this, but heres the history of the internet:

> nerds (literally no one used it)
> nerds (nearly no one used it)
> nerds (still no one used it)
> nerds + porn (sudden explosion of users and technological advances)

>Most people wont click links to my website because it's "sus".

I agree it's tarded when you think about it, thousands of JavaScript trackers running constantly in your browser but you are concerned about visiting a link

>she will ask me to upload it on Youtube
Maybe women really shouldn't be allowed on the internet

>>109587715

I'm OP and my impression is that people mainly want to join projects only when they're already big and successful, or if there are immediate benefits like you pay them 5k a month. This paradox kills any project right at the start
People will not join any website unless it has at least 1M+ users. So how do you get those 1M people in the first place?
You buy them.

This wasnt the case in 2004. I was involved in so many team projects. We made funny parodies of anime, webcomics, websites, you name it.
Whatever you pitched to the population, they joined it.
Something has changed but I dont see what. Maybe it's just that there are now easier ways to get attention and entertainment than something that resembles work. In 2004, if you joined some group effort, glory was guaranteed.

>>109585927
The internet is dying.

>>109587762
>In 2004, if you joined some group effort, glory was guaranteed.
You are absolutely delusional

>>109587769

i'm 100% convinced that in a few years only one massive website will exist and it will be horrible.

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>>109585927
>The difficulty of making something new
I get your argument anon but I'll be honest, you're not even making something really new, and if you think that making a "FOSS social media" site or "FOSS instant messaging" site is making something new you are no different than the users you are criticizing, there is so much more beyond webshit but you don't even know.
I fucking hate the web in general, it killed what the internet should have really been and now it's killing computing in general, the kind of alternative I propose don't even use a browser and are not apps, users don't even act hostile to me they respond with total confusion like I am speaking a alien language.
Computing in general has been stuck for decades in this retarded monoculture where nothing actually new is ever made, FOSS is part of the problem because they can only make clones but "free", like even Linux itself is a fucking clone of UNIX, a fucking OS from the 70's (more than 50 years ago btw)
So yeah you're not even actually making anything new in the first place bro, go look at what people like Alan Kay were doing in the 60's and 70's, that's when innovation stopped in computing or better hypermedia models like project Xanadu.
>>109587281
I have to agree with you, it's why Fediverse is retarded, they are cloning what is a corporate model built for corporate and government interests (manipulating people), but it's le "free", it's fucking pathetic.

>>109587769
>>109587780
The internet is not the web, you fucking tech illiterate mongoloids.

>>109587721
Can you stream video with IRC? I personally dont use discord for anything other than streaming videos with friends. Even the friends that I use discord with, we talk on other platforms, even while streaming on discord. Mostly because of the privacy issues with discord, but also because its easier to text or video chat on the phone while watching a movie together with discord streaming on a computer.

>>109587802
All this text but you didn't share your idea. What is it? Pic is okay though.
And yes, your argument that every "new" site is the same is accurate.
100% of websites are just people posting text, images, videos and audio. This hasn't changed in decades.
But I claim making FOSS alternatives is a good thing, it's a no-brainer. I mean you're here, aren't you? You clearly enjoy a platform where you post text and images.

>>109587691
its a downgrade to a regular forum.
Especially when its supposed to be information exchange and not a secret ERP club. You literally hiding the information by using discord server over a regular forum.

>>109587847
>its a downgrade to a regular forum.
It's not comparable to a forum, Discord is real-time, a forum is a website

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>>109585927
You made a thread entitled "the difficulty of making something new," and instead talked about reimplementing things which already exist. That's a big part of the problem. Instead of trying to create something new, you're pondering how to recreate web services designed around hyper-centralization and armies of codemonkeys which keep the services live.
If that's your goal, you've already lost. You have to do something actually different (aka not merely reimplement it in your language of choice) if you want to both scale it down and give people a compelling reason to use it.

As for actually coming up with and making new things, the best advice I can give is to cultivate a broad range of interests (especially ones which aren't merely consuming products) and learn how to transfer ideas across very different fields. You want to maximize your ability to notice potential and missed opportunities that specialists miss. Here's some more obviously dev-related advice that I've found helpful there:
>Familiarise yourself with old operating systems and the ideas behind them. These often had very interesting concepts which have fallen by the wayside, but could be useful if they're used in the right context
>Expose yourself to non-ALGOL programming languages
>Look into E.F. Schumacher's books and his concept of intermediate technologies
>Check out Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Incerto series, and start with whatever book strikes your fancy
>Remind yourself that not everything in life is a software or engineering problem
>Give yourself really high goals. Some good examples are Doug Engelbart's desire to strengthen's mankind's collective problem-solving skills and Alan Kay's wish to create Montessori-style software dev environments

>>109587900
This is the biggest bunch of "Will never achieve anything" advice I've ever read

>>109587398
There are 2 kinds of people. Those who understand that free software is the only way, and animals. Animals don't deserve forums, so tons want it.

>>109587911
How's the 200th slack clone coming along song? Killing Discord yet? How's the forum?

>>109587924
Ok then so why are you complaining that these "animals" don't care about your useless project
Go hang out with your mentally-ill FOSStard buddies and be happy

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>>109587846
>you didn't share your idea
I don't feel like it and my ideas wouldn't fit in a post anyway, I'll be generic I have various various ideas about programming languages, operating systems and internet protocols, but since none of my ideas look like a app or a website 99% of people don't even understand what I am talking about, I envy OP, at least his users understand since hostility requires some degree of understanding.
Because the webshit meta is so radicated in users and businesses at this point that it's just what people think computing is, yet it's actually a very limiting and badly designed platform, like you can't even do peer to peer without all kinds of dubious hacks, lol.
>100% of websites are just people posting text, images, videos and audio
That's not even really true if you think about it, the web was born to be a hypermedia platform, which is a fancy way of saying "documents with media and with links to other documents", but what most websites are today is not documents but applications, this is the original sin of the web and now it spread like a virus to both mobile and desktop applications and to protocols too, like you have retards using JSON for config or data serialization, fucking disgusting.
>But I claim making FOSS alternatives is a good thing
>I mean you're here, aren't you
The problem I have with FOSS is that they are against building new things, they can only copy, look at any OS, DE, or applications, all clones of proprietary shit. I share their freedom oriented hacker philosophy but the movement is retarded and has always been.
4chan is proprietary, and is nothing new, just a clone of Japanese anonymous boards.

Have another Elaina.

>>109587688
You should "know what they need". Asking them what they want is a way to gather data, from data you must guess the real intent (revealed preference will only show up in light of proposed solutions). You must hypothesize solutions and test them with volunteers. When you've got something, you will know.
But you can't just do 'what people tell you they want', because people will often describe symptoms rather than causes for obvious reasons.

>>109587858
>you have to hit refresh button on a forum
completely irrelevant when the goal is distributing information people will read days after its posted. Not to mention that hitting refresh isn't even necessary, later forums allowed realtime updates for new posts.

And discord is a fucking website too.

>>109587934
First time I made a living off my own software development efforts was 25 years ago
How about you
How are those non-ALGOL languages helping you achieve anything

>>109587943
>the goal is distributing information people will read days after its posted
that's not the goal of Discord, or most forums really

>>109587688
>People are not social engineering experts. Web devs are.
this is some great delulu

>>109587937
Take your meds.

>>109587958
I'm not a radicalized freetard I don't need any meds

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Do a thought experiment, imagine if Discord suddenly allowed federating with XMPP. Imagine what would result from that over the next few years.
Such a simple thing they could do (and they could even keep charging for nitro or whatever)
The internet didn't become the way it is organically, it was taken from you.

EVERY TIME I REFRESH THIS THREAD IT HAS 30 NEW REPLIES

>>109587967
Are the radicalized freetards in the room with us right now?

I once built a classifieds site with a reddit-like discussion panel for my small municipality, but no one used it. In the distant past there was a very active forum with lively BUY/SELL section, so I wanted to build on that. From talking to people I realised that they are all on jewbook and doomscrolling between scam ads doesn't bother them
>>109587769
just end it already

>>109587978
>Imagine what would result from that over the next few years.
Nobody would care

>>109587981
Yep he's right here officer >>109587937

>>109587954
Anything close to a hobby related forum is about information exchange most users will read way later. If its pc shit then its even years later as people look for specific solutions and stumble over a forum post solving it.

Discord doesnt allow that. It hides all information posted on a server unless you find the server. Legacy knowledge is deleted with discord. Not to mention that it prevents search indexing.

>>109587815
Anyone who says discord is just IRC is so far out of the loop its pointless to engage with them.

>>109587987
>the 9 gorillion people who complain abstractly about wanting to leave discord everyday but they can't because "everyone uses it"

>>109587992
>Anything close to a hobby related forum is about information exchange most users will read way later.
That represents a small minority use of forums or Discord

>>109587996
They don't mean it

>>109587900
>>Give yourself really high goals. Some good examples are Doug Engelbart's desire to strengthen's mankind's collective problem-solving skills

Whenever I do this people say I have a god complex

>>109587993
This is the most fascinating fact about this entire shit. Retards just want discord i.e. video, chat, file sharing with zero hassle and costs then even bigger retards come along to screech how IRC/XMPP/etc is totally the same and just run a bouncer bro, just run jitsi bro, just..
Both sides are fully delusional for entirely different reasons. It's fascinating.

>>109588010
its not a minority, a large amount of companies started doing discord over using their own forums.

>>109588028
Majority use of Discord is for real-time communication
Using it to archive shit is a very distant second

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GDPR and CCPA are for big websites and corporations, they are not for small and medium websites. Lots of people are stupid and refuse to click links, but anon, I'm not stupid and I'll click your links.

>Tiktok
Agreed it's horrible.
>
Hop on matrix add me at grunit@xmr.se

>>109585927
You'll have to swallow the bitter pill that making something is all about marketing. It doesn't matter if it's better or faster or has some unique "key differentiators" as retarded faggots on linkedin call them. It's all about dumping $700k on marketing efforts to get $750k of profits so that next time you can dump $725k on marketing to get $780k of profits... There's nothing else to it. If you don't have $700k to dump on ads to shove your new thing down everyone's throats - you will get a tightly knit community of 200 stunted retards with no money or anything interesting going on in their lives. Making a product is not about technology at all.

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>>109588058
>dumping 700k on marketing
That's not as bad of an investment as you might think.

>>109588034
you are conflating most active users being shitposters with most people are shitposters. Majority doesnt actively post.
Its the same shit as twitter 80% of posts is only 20% of its users.

>>109588058
This is what I hate about society, anon. Fucking capitalism.
Money was a mistake.
Monetizing websites was a mistake.

I hate websites that make profit.

>>109588070
The majority of active, inactive, shitposters and non-shitposters use Discord as a real-time communication service

>>109588076
You are a child

>>109587979
doesn't seem organic right

>>109588082
wrong

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>>109587911
>This is the biggest bunch of "Will never achieve anything" advice I've ever read
And why is that?

>>109588020
Indeed
Ideally I would love a discord clone in an easy to deploy container to host on my own VPS, even paying for a cloudflare TURN server the costs for streaming video would be way less than how much people in my discord server pay for nitro.
But discord has been around for 10 years and all the alternatives are still shit

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>>109588085
There's nothing childish about hating capitalism or money. That's a hallmark of maturity. Wanting to do something about those 2 problems (Capitalism and money) makes you courageous.

We as human beings can absolutely find a way to make a more fair and equitable society, and we can move beyond the need of money as a society. That is the great filter that we will overcome.

>>109588087
No, that's correct, that's the overwhelming majority of Discord use
I assume you're just a guy with no friends who pops into Discords to get information and because you lack theory of mind you think that's what everyone uses Discord for, but that's not the case

>>109588092
Impractical, pie-in-the-sky advice

>>109588103
>There's nothing childish about hating capitalism or money.
Yes there is
It's basically I can't understand the practicalities of the world, I want everything handed to me like when I was a kid, I don't want to have to get along and comprimise with other human beings I should just get everything I want

>>109588102
there are literal discord clones on github made as portfolio projects.

>>109588104
all your friends are here

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>>109588112
https://theslowburningfuse.wordpress.com/2024/11/20/capitalism-and-the-childish-idea-of-no-such-thing-as-too-much/

Lets try and keep it on the topic of FOSS/Technology however.

>>109585927
Here's a cool thing about making something: you make it so you can use it, and if it's good, other people might want to use it too. Otherwise you're doing something called "making a new product" and you have do a thing called "marketing".

>>109588104
friends use voicecom not text
you exposing your own miserable existence

>>109588114
yeah and every single one I've tried is dogshit

Anon dont listen to them, I will tell you the truth. The problem lies in society not tech. A person with good life. Having healthy relationship with friends and family and having a good job will never use a fucking social media in the first place. It is a space for retards and schizos. I know its a hard to swallow pill but there was a reason why people made fun of nerds in the past. Socially disabled people that escaped to internet, that's what they/we are.

>>109588131
Discord has voicecom you fucking idiot

>>109588127
If he said "capitalism is bad" he might have a point, depending on what he means by captialism
"money is bad" is extremely childish

>>109588134
If it has chat and video calls its good enough. Do you need more meme emotes or what?

>>109588147
Money is bad because it gamifies literally everything at scale. It's that simple.

>>109588141
the conversation was about shitposting you fucking illiterate.

>>109588154
you're going to have to qualify "gamifies" and say why that's bad

>>109588165
No it wasn't

>>109588085
You think you're so adult for accepting and adapting to shit?

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>>109588151
>we have chat and video calls at home
>
bruh

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>>109588168
Easy. See Goodhart's law.
Gamifies, as an gamified metrics.
Money treats society like it is a game, and it intrinsically motivates people to step on others. It leads to bad outcomes.

I am not very religious personally, but I like this quote from the NIV:

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs."

>>109588187
Adapting to difficult practical realities is part of becoming an adult, yeah

>>109588168

Not him, but humans evolved to live in tribal societies and they inherently dont need money because the tribe is self-sustaining and creates everything that it needs
Money came in when some asshole wanted to gain power over other human beings.

>>109588195
>Money treats society like it is a game
No it doesn't
Money is just a way of making trading easier, and trade is good for society
You can play games with money sure but you can play games with anything

>>109588188
>Do you need more meme emotes or what?
Answer the damn question if you gonna respond. What the fuck do you even need?
Like the main functionality is voice com with occasionally posting funny memes, thats it.

>>109588205
>trade is good for society

Can we at least agree that lending money with interest should be banned?

>>109588204
>Not him, but humans evolved to live in tribal societies
Yeah then they evolved to live in civilizations

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>>109588108
>make new things by taking inspiration from things outside the industry standard?
>that's impractical pie in the sky advice

>>109588206
You are a nigger not worth responding to with any effort.
>NOOOO IT'S GOOD JUST ANSWER A QUESTION NO ONE ASKED BRO

>>109588209
It can be, it's a complicated issue

>>109588213
What new things are you going to accomplish if you use a non-ALGOL language? It literally doesn't matter what language you use

>>109588215
>i have no response and i must SCREECH
low iq monkey

seeing how the thread is going seems we have a discord defense force here

>>109588209
No. If someone wants to offer a loan with interest that's not for the government to ban.
>>109588205
>Money is just a way of making trading easier, and trade is good for society
In a fully automated society there will be no need for money. There will be enough for everyone and nobody will have too much.

>>109588204
Money is an abstraction of trade, and in tribal societies people like you would've been thrown off a cliff or let get eaten by a bear once it was clear you weren't pulling your weight. I don't know why you're nostalgia to a much more cruel system when you'd be the first to be culled when your default behavior is doomposting from the house your mother pays for.

>>109587900
>You made a thread entitled "the difficulty of making something new," and instead talked about reimplementing things which already exist
Exactly.
It's seems like "rewrite it but free" and "rewrite it but in Rust" is the extreme of what programmers consider innovation this days, it says a lot about how the field fell compared to the past.
>advices
My advice is more general, more like a methodology, first you should identify what are basic blocks of computing, things like data structures and algorithms or certain composite technologies, this is a matter of opinion and taste so I resist giving a list here, then all other composite technologies you should question regularly even what you and everyone else takes for granted, and here I include also things like programming languages, operating systems, conventions, standards, anything that is or is part of a platform, then you identity a problem you want to solve, doesn't have to be a new problem, even a problem that everyone considers to be solved might be solved in a better way, then starting from you set of basic blocks you approach the problem.
This is an opposite approach to what most programmers do this day, which is bulding on top of very opinionated platforms, importing as much stuff you can from even more opinionated libraries and then try to solve the problem on top of that.
How can you build anything really new when you restrict the space of possibilities to basically what other people the ones that built the platforms and the libraries wanted? We already know the outcome.
Systems like Doug Engelbart's oN-Line System which you mentioned were done completely from scratch, they even built their own hardware! Hardware is another real limitation to innovation, it's all so standardized which might seem good, but the problem is that it's standardized for the interests of few corporations, that itself limits the space of possibilities even before you start writing a single line of code.

>>109588253
>In a fully automated society there will be no need for money. There will be enough for everyone and nobody will have too much.
That society doesn't exist

>>109588273
You're right, but it can exist, and it should, and I'm working towards making it a reality.

>>109588243
>obsessed with emotes
>calls others low iq monkeys

>>109588253
Wrong because you are denying the human genetic trait to want more. And not only want more, but need other people to have less. You live in a complete fantasy land that completely ignores the human condition.

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Guys, should I make a social media where the server costs are paid for by the users on Patreon?

People donate so much money to youtubers, artists etc.
Why not a new website?

>what's the point?
Isnt it obvious? This means it's run by and owned by the users, not some greedy corporation. The immediate benefit is NO FUCKING ADS, no behavioral data collection, and no bullshit of any kind.

>>109588253
You are for it cause you dont understand how things work. Take housing crisis, you save for a house, bank can lend 10x your savings to other people to buy homes they cant afford. House price goes up and you are forced into a loan to afford a home. Now both the poor bastards and you are paying the bank money to get a home. They default because they cant really afford it and you pay even more financing the loss. GG you got double scammed.

>>109588287
You are escalating to borderline insults. I am now going to ask you to return to civility and provide any evidence for this so-called "human genetic trait to want more" -- can you please provide any evidence to support such a genetic trait? Who gave you the authority to define what the human condition is?

>>109588283
>I'm working towards making it a reality.
how?

>>109588298
By contributing to FOSS and democratic socialism.

>>109588286
>he asked me if i want emotes
>this means he wants emotes
holy shit you are genuine stupid

>>109588297
>I'm just going to ignore the attributes of every civilization throughout history, let alone the modern examples of socialist countries vs capitalist countries, all of which devolve into castes and hierachies
Lay off the drugs.

>>109588253
>No. If someone wants to offer a loan with interest that's not for the government to ban.

The problem is that those with money will manipulate the less fortunate into taking loans they can never pay back.
Do you think people WANT 60-year payment plants?

>>109588312
Who are you quoting?

>>109588303
Oh so you're a fucking retard
You can't FORCE society to become a communist utopia, it will only reach that point if resources become so abundant that it's not neccessary
Society isn't anywhere close to that right now

>>109588303
What happens when someone does more work and someone does less work and the person who does less work wants half the reward?

>>109588307
being obsessed with emotes doesn't necessarily mean you want emotes
you're just obsessed with them
>I ASKED YOU ABOUT EMOTES
>ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT EMOTES
>THESE LOW IQ MONKEYS WONT EVEN TALK ABOUT EMOTES

>>109588330
Leftists will always lose because they play stupid when they know they're losing an argument. Good luck getting your band of downtrodden misfits together to overthrow the system. Those are definitely the people you can trust to do hard work lmao.

>>109588337
You got the ESL issue, it was an example for "what feature do you want"

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>>109588331
I'm not an authoritarian, no.

>>109588353
Go to >>>/pol/ moron

>>109588337
Stop screaming, and who are you quoting?

>>109588371
>I'm not an authoritarian
FOSS is authoritarian and seeks to supplant paid software by force

>>109588354
I want actually good ux and actually good voice/video/screen sharing
not the dogshit that you call good enough

>>109588380
How can you consider FOSS to be authoritarian? There are many FOSS licenses. Some have more requirements than others. The AGPL mandates freedom. It forces freedom.

>>109588395
>It forces freedom.
you answered your own question

>>109588371
>I'm not an authoritarian, no.
Okay, why are people going to voluntarily use your products?

>Go to >>>/pol/ moron
You brought pol here.

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>>109588398
I see through your lies.

>>109587762
It's really simple anon. The internet was a separate place. Remember "surfing the web"? Just the act of being online was in and of itself a defined hobby.

The userbase was different as well. There was variation, but by definition they were more tech literate than the people that weren't on the internet. A smaller userbase also made it easier to have some shared "internet culture" across the majority of sites. Remember YouTube Rewind? It's pointless to have one now; everyone's youtube is different. (yes, youtube is not exactly "old internet", but I hope you see my point)

There was also an emphasis on leaving your personal touch. Create your own site, your own flash game. Compare geocities, forum signatures and customized myspace profiles with today's options: a few words plus emojis on your "bio". This is even evident in youtube's old slogan: broadcast *yourself*.

>>109588406
ownership is not "intolerance"
the GPL seeks to supplant ownership of software by force
this is a bad idea, because ownership of software can result in good things
non-ownership of software can also result in good things, but assuming no software should be owned is just retarded extremism

>>109588395
Paid always wins because the money motivation makes people work harder, and not only that, work on features that are desirable to customers and not person pet features or obtuse philosophy of the developer. Very rarely does FOSS align with users.

>>109588410
>Just the act of being online was in and of itself a defined hobby.
no it wasnt you dumb zoomer

>>109586868
>>109587299
i care about this shit. dearly in fact

>>109588431
you're nobody
you're the <1% with a mental illness

>>109588354
>e-e-e-esl!
You illiterate nigger he already told you.

>>109588429
it's kind of a hyperbole but it's more truth than lie, which is why no one talks about "surfing" today.

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>>109588410
>Create your own site, your own flash game. Compare geocities, forum signatures and customized myspace profiles with today's options: a few words plus emojis on your "bio".

Ah fuck I just remembered
You made me depressed, anon.
We've sunken SO LOW.

>>109588410
"surfing the web" is a fabricated concept by Hollywood and TV shows by people who didn't even understand the internet so this was their pea-brained way to describe something they don't understand, the "hobby" of using the internet has not changed

>>109588449
that was what people who didn't actually use the internet said about the internet
"surfing the web" was interesting for about 5 minutes

>>109588406
the paradox is fake.
It relies on people equating speech to violence. And its most used by people using violence to censor speech. They users are the intolerant ones.

>>109588459
Speech can be violent. This is established fact.
Source: Harvard
https://clbb.mgh.harvard.edu/when-is-speech-violence/

>>109588382
from what ive seen its blatant copypaste, its impossible to be worse when its identical.

>>109587762
I agree. Collaboration was just assumed on the Internet, or else why would you use it? Entertainment that did exist online was amateurish and could be produced by someone with minimal talent (see superstars from 2004 like LegendaryFrog and Egoraptor). I think one of the issues is that the demographic of the Internet is not what it used to be. Example, the third world (your "friend" who suggested you market to them was trying to sabotage you), and turbo-normies who were afraid to leave MySpace and Facebook back then are now for some reason living on the same platforms as us, reacting with insane vitriol to your suggestion that you leave them. I think we just have to be an example for likeminded people.

>>109588020
>Retards just want discord i.e. video, chat, file sharing with zero hassle and costs then even bigger retards come along to screech how IRC/XMPP/etc is totally the same and just run a bouncer bro, just run jitsi bro, just..
We already had /thread almost an hour ago. Everything after was literally just proving this post right.

>>109588468
>they copied the layout so im sure it functions the same

>>109587996
They could leave discord anytime. Many alternatives have discord bridges. Revealed preference at work.

>>109588450
I find it hilarious you basically just posted
> Social networks (STILL EXIST)
> File sharing (Emule still exists, people Torrent now)
> Chatting (Messenger is just Discord)
> Newgrounds (Called itch.io)
> All Your Base (Youtube)

It's absolutely wonderful people complain about an internet that they never use even though it still exists today. It seems to me what you actually do as a hobby is complain.

>>109588496
They didn't even copy the layout they just use the same standard UI boilerplate graphics literally everyone does. Copying implies a base amount of effort that simply isn't there.

>>109588501
They have this romanticized idea of the old Internet where browsing people's shitty Geocities websites was some sort of fulfilling activity forever lost to time

>>109588496
i replied to >i want good ux

>>109588010
>That represents a small minority use of forums
I would say it's like 99% of technical topic forums, where technical ranges from computers and biology to tcg and more.

>>109588517
Most forum use centres around big forums that basically move at real-time speeds

>>109588514
>doesn't understand the difference between UI and UX
>thinks his opinions matter

>>109588514
UI is not UX

>>109588456
>>109588458
Ok, maybe I didn't describe it well enough. What I mean was, at least there was an internet to explore: specialized forums, tight-knit communities and blogs/personal pages. Now it's all discord, reddit and algorithm slop

>>109588545
Now you can explore discord and reddit
What's the difference

>>109588467
their argument basically is
>i can stress over speech
>stress causes physical harm
>this means offensive stuff is violence to me

if you follow that logic then you can murder anyone in self defense just because you are easily offended included the people censoring speech because that causes stress to you just the same.

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>>109588431

I'm actually making a "shitty FOSS website nobody gives a shit about".
Check it out

https://minisome.dy.fi

I've spent countless months writing it in notepad. Didn't want to use bloated React let alone AI.
I'm looking for people to join the project. You can either code, test the site or simply give advice.
It probably won't save the world but at least there's nobody making any money from you posting on there.
I made the site because it pisses me off how everything's monetized. Just me posting on 4chan indirectly benefits the shareholders of 4chan inc because this site is an empty sandbox where the money comes from the users posting posts on it.

>>109588509
It's funny, the modern Geocities experience is making a 1 view Youtube channel with low quality content. Geocities was only a means of expression and the people who made Geocities pages now make Tiktoks no one watches. It's just hilarious because it's more accessible than ever to make your own web page and have 5 views, yet they never do it, because what has fundamentally changed is everyone is grifting for a million dollars and can't be bothered to just express themselves because they can.

>>109588292
A lot of forums already operate this way. Not patreon but straight donations (so no 30% cut for patreon).
The problem is the same as was very clearly articulated by a few anons before though: nobody will join if you don't give anyone a reason to join.

>>109588437
it's fine if you think that. i actually enjoy using machines and don't feel the need to "update" them every 3 years over "advances" that are not even real. for example, adobe have added basically zero new features to photoshop in 10 years, but the system requirements to run it have markedly increased because they have turned it into an always-online spyware machine that needs to extort money from you on a monthly basis. I do not think resisting this makes me "mentally ill". I think you are simply a person who wants to consume children's media all day and will pay any cost and produce infinite waste to make that happen.

>>109588567
I don't update either, that doesn't make me a freetard

>>109588562
>>109588509

If you think Geocities and Tiktok are the same, you weren't there.
Back in the day websites had SOVL
They werent enshittified to the max.
That's exactly the reason why you are posting on 4chan right now. 4chan is a living fossil, stuck in 2008 or whatever
That's why you like this site. It's less shit than Tiktok

>>109588567
You have the mature position.

>>109588577
>Back in the day websites had SOVL
They were entertaining for about 5 minutes
Less entertaining than some Youtube channel with 23 subscribers

>>109588501
Come on, itch.io is far worse than newgrounds et al. were. Social networks have been all fucked up and you know it. Nobody does emule, but yes, torrents are healthier than ever.
There have been no meme-quality OC created in over 15 years anywhere, least of all 4cuck now. And youtube is trash that make youtube poops of yesteryear look like fine art.

>>109588545
Websites still exist, you just don't care to look. And if you cared that much, you'd make a modern dmoz. You act like people were just clicking links from site to site back in the day browsing 100+ websites per day, they weren't. There is no inherent value to browsing unique domains vs unique pages on Reddit.

>>109588526
Those are social forums and not technical topic forums, though.

>>109588596
So?

>>109588599
Glad you agree.

>>109588567
>adobe have added basically zero new features to photoshop in 10 years, but the system requirements to run it have markedly increased because they have turned it into an always-online spyware machine that needs to extort money from you on a monthly basis

This is a massive problem.
The world is drowning in e-waste because companies are forcing us to upgrade our devices only so the latest spyware would work.
That's why I'm going to guarantee that my app runs on any device even 20 years old.

>>109588577
I was there, you fucking faggot. I was playing games online on a modem, before every fucking game was someone trying to be an esports legend, back when you do something online and not have to deal with retarded normies (you) and tryhards. I grew up playing games like ZZT and MUDs in the terminal, I fucking had my own Geocities page. You don't know fucking anything about the internet you fucking theater kid poser.

>>109588587
okay lmao contrarian
I get it, you're pining over your rose tinted glasses and in 20 years you'll be pining about Discord and Reddit.
>'member when you could post funny 5 second memes on TikTok, now everyone uses GlipGlorp and it's not anything like TikTok.

>>109588557
>>109588591
reddit fucking sucks as a forum substitute. After a post has been up for a couple hours (or days for smaller subs) no one visits it any more. And after the first comments, a considerable amount of traffic is two people engaging on 1-on-1 conversations. On forums, posts live for longer and even if the discussion in the replies takes a deep turn, people can still join in (compared to reddit where they're hidden).
discord I'll admit I haven't tried to use much, especially now that they've implemented threads. However, substituting a forum with a chat is even worse than reddit and I hope there's no need to elaborate on that. As for their threads implementation, I wouldn't be surprised if it suffers from the same problem as reddit: not being long-lived enough, people not joining in at every stage of the discussion.

My main gripe with the internet now is not that I can't visit 100 unique sites a day, is that the sweet spot of medium-length communities has vanished.

>>109586717
Not all the criticism you get is because you're running a website, you fucking faggot.
Look into a mirror for one fucking second and you'll get it, maybe.

>>109588587
I use amule - client for the eD2k and Kad networks, like eMule.

>Part of aMule is based on
>Kademlia: Peer-to-peer routing based on the XOR metric.
>Copyright (c) 2002-2011 Petar Maymounkov (petar@post.harvard.edu)
>http://kademlia.scs.cs.nyu.edu

>>109588051
Woman in pink is a 7/10 cutie. That shitty thing in green looks like that very punchable "friend" nobody likes.

>>109588708
I would rather have pizzacake because she is smart, has green eyes (rare), is funny, not full of herself, and is able to critique herself honestly

>>109588644
OK zoomer

>>109588708
Good taste.
>>109588725
Shit taste.

>>109588223
I said to expose yourself to them, not necessarily to use them, as it's about expanding your awareness of what's out there and different ways of solving problems. If you have some familiarity with SQL, for example, you'll have some idea when a relational database is the right tool for the job, and ideally be able to carry over techniques from database programming when they fit the situation.

>>109588657
theres too many thirdies trying to hustle every site that gives them the chance nowadays. good discussion gets killed to that current thing can get promoted by a spam account to drive up the algo with fake interest to promote whatever scheme they got going on. non algo websites dont have the incentive for them to fake traffic and make it look very active so any traffic is real market demand

>>109588657
Forums still exist. Which again proves how out of touch you are. Forums were never a place you just link browsed into, they were attached to specific topic or game and a specific Subreddit or Discord server is literally the same experience. And here's the real fact, forums suck, did you really think it was a great user experience to post something and then come back in 48 hour and MAYBE have a reply? There's a reason why people migrated, and there's a reason why you're not making your own personal forum right now. The death of the forums was unironically due to people like you, because you stopped going back or rather, many forums died because their topic became untopical.

There is no intrinsic value of separate domains, as if Yet Another PHPBB Forum with the Red Theme is different a Subreddit with the Banana banner.

And one day, when Reddit fails to serve the needs of the user, people will move on to another platform. But the reality is, the actual facts of this discussion, is you don't want to host and run a forum of 10-100 people. You're acting like forum culture was a million bodybuilding.com, when in reality it was TieDyeForum.com with 20 active users. That's why you don't do it and that's why you don't use them.

>>109588708
>contrarian
>>109588725
>i believe the authors self insert

both wrong
t.enlightened centrist

>>109585927
>their cushy Nitro account and Hololive servers
Why are you mad at retards for being retarded? Find other friends whose entire lives aren't spent watching adult Teletubbies

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>>109588560
>shareholders of 4chan inc
Wrong.
There is an LLC. Maybe 2 LLCs. Worth looking into.
You should learn the difference between an LLC and a corporation. 4chan Community Support LLC is an LLC, not a corporation.

>>109588823
Retarded or just
>tripfaggot
Classic combo.
Try google next time.

>>109588823
>llc
>limited liability corporation

>>109588837
LLCs are not *real* corporations.
Real corporations bear "Inc"
LLCs are LLCs. They are not addressed with "inc"
You lack nuance

>>109588657
>On forums, posts live for longer
You can get Reddit results from 10 years ago if you Google something

>>109588751
>it's about expanding your awareness of what's out there and different ways of solving problems.
It won't help

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>>109588848
I will add onto my own post, these are the kinds of services a corporation provides. 4chan Community Support LLC, has a business relationship with Capitol Services Inc, they handle various legal aspects for 4chan Community Support LLC, and as far as I can tell seem to be a pretty good corporation, at least for business purposes. I don't know anything about their ethics, who or what they fund, but it might be worth looking into, if you're interested.

>>109588848
>You lack nuance
Absolutely ironic given your pedantry.

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>>109588899
I have been pedantic in the past, and at times maybe I am still pedantic, for example, when I used to be a cashier, as a part of my duties in a managerial position, I was pedantic when it came to money in the till. If a customer was short even a penny, I would refuse the transaction. I followed the corporate policy on how to handle such situations to the letter, and I was known for being a dick about it, but my district manager appreciated it, and definitely took advantage of it.

>>109585927
Normoids are retarded NPCs and the jews are right about them. What is new here?

>>109588766
I highlighted some reasons why subreddits and discord are worse experiences than forums, I think most people would agree with them.

Yes, forums still "exist" but what's the point when they're down to a sliver of the population? For example, 15-20 years ago my country had a moderately active anime forum, now it gets 5-10 posts a month. And fuck discord as an alternative, the only reason people use it is because they're already glued to their phones because of endless dopamine harvest algorithms.
>>109588865
But with zero discussion. On forums a thread could have a discussion with multiple users joining in for multiple days. This never happens on reddit.

>>109588967
>This never happens on reddit.
Yes it does
Have you even been to Reddit?

>>109588985
What happens in every comment chain is that two people keep replying to one another. Perhaps OP or some rando will also chime in but the comment chain's discussion will never be in the forefront, as it would be on a forum (or here).

>>109588967
>I think most people would agree with them.
They wouldn't, which is why Reddit / Discord has replaced forums
Reddit is superior for disseminating information
Discord is superior for hanging out

>>109589012
I'm literally speaking to a guy who doesn't know how to use Reddit in 2026

>>109589018
so you believe that what is discussed in a 10-comments deep chain has the same visibility as the most upvoted top-level comment? are you delusional?

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>>109589018
If you are in marketing and aren't using reddit, you're fucking braindead. Google is what the majority of people on earth use for search. It's well known that people append reddit to whatever they ask to get better insights. So now Gemini is on Google search for the people who use chrome by default. These gemini search results are directly driven by reddit. Therefore, if you can improve your reddit SEO, you inherently improve your GEO, because most of the LLMs, when they do a web search, they are queering against Google search, either directly or indirectly.

>>109589050
You can have discussion chains on Reddit, it just puts the most popular posts at the top

>>109588967
>For example, 15-20 years ago my country had a moderately active anime forum, now it gets 5-10 posts a month. And fuck discord as an alternative, the only reason people use it is because they're already glued to their phones because of endless dopamine harvest algorithms.

Then that's just an argument about the state of culture, not the internet, you even admit the forum still exists. I already explained why people don't use forums. And for discussing anime, guess what works really well for this? Reddit. Or if you want it a little more personal? Discord. The forum still exists, the users who used the forums still exist, the discussions are still happening, the only difference is the platform. You are pining for something only on the premise that "past == good" not "can users still do the thing today that they did in the past, e.g. talk about anime with likeminded people in [foreign language]". And that's not even talking about the cultural shift, do you actually think that if Reddit and Discord disappeared magically tomorrow that the core cultural rot of brain rotted zoomers will disappear? You're going to be an estranged dinosaur no matter the architecture or platform. You're really no different from someone telling stories about that one time in high school when they made the game winning play and then complaining why life isn't high school.

>>109589050
>visibility
Way to out the real motivation, you're not interested in discussion, you're interested in visibility... the grift. Hate to break it to you, I scrolled past your posts on forums without reading either.

>>109589079
reddit is enforcing a mainstream opinion by its upvote desing. Its a downgrade to a forums egalitarian structure where posts all get equal attention. Especially as votes are trivially manipulated by social rejects doing their own style of moderation.

>>109589123
>Especially as votes are trivially manipulated by social rejects doing their own style of moderation.
Forums are manipulated by social rejects who spend all day on there replying to every post

>>109589050
There are some interesting studies on tangibly related topics.

>>109589143
Somewhat true, but the companies (like reddit) have far more manipulative and perverse control.

>>109589151
>Somewhat true
No it's very true
If you were around on the internet in the 2000s you'd be sick to fucking death of forums and the rigid social structure they naturally gravitate towards
I don't use Reddit but it's a breath of fresh air compared to a forum

>>109589079
Each platform influences the conversation quality in it. If your post doesn't get enough upvotes while it's "new" on reddit, it won't be shown on most people's feed. Sure you can browse by new but 99% of the users are not doing that, which is the problem.
>>109589107
It's not about me, it's about the "default" way to use each platform, but you're too dense to understand it
>>109589123
it's wild that you can be contrarian enough to defend reddit in 2026

>>109589123
Every subreddit has its own culture, your critique only applies as a generalization if you're lamenting the discussion quality of /r/funnypicsIshareintheshower then you're just being bad faith. And your core assertion is wrong to imply every comment is equally valid or deserves equal visibility and from what I recall, attention whores often got banned in forums, especially those that insisted their comments demand visibility. YOU were the cancer on forums, big fish in a small pond. But funny really, I'd swear you're a subreddit moderator.

I also can't help but notice you are likely making the chronical lament now because you feel your comments are buried. But if you were a top poster that got frequently updooted you'd be all in. Maybe the problem is Reddit is a mirror of your commentary value.

>>109589167
No I like and miss some forums. I was on many traditional MyBB forums, I think forums are good and we need more of them.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0344782
https://sllives.com/how-reddit-comments-influence-post-visibility-in-large-subreddits/
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.02673

>>109589190
forums are shit because they become cliquey

>>109589202
Is hackforums cliquey? Is there a clique that forms around the administrator, "omniscient"?

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btw, here's a good reason not to use hackforums

>>109589168
>Each platform influences the conversation quality in it. If your post doesn't get enough upvotes while it's "new" on reddit, it won't be shown on most people's feed. Sure you can browse by new but 99% of the users are not doing that, which is the problem.
So you just want attention? You know if updoots is how you base your self-esteem or value of your argument then you should change your rhetoric to the forum, this is Communication 101.

>It's not about me, it's about the "default" way to use each platform, but you're too dense to understand it
It is about you, that's why you used the word visibility and why you complain so much about traction. Reddit is easy to game if you know the words. And I don't know why you think this is worse than a forum topic with 99 pages and your comment buried on page 87. You seem obsessed with the fact that your post isn't front and center. You know you can just make a website where you can blog with zero competing attention right? Or is it you must have lots of attention and at little personal expense?

>>109589212
I've never been to your favourite forum bro

>>109589187
i can bot upvotes on any subreddit and control discourse without posting anything.
There are also services for this available and i had offers to write bots for reddit on my freelance profile.

Forums can suffer sliding spamming nonsense posts but its obvious.

>>109589237
My favorite forum would have to have been RaidForums or NulledBB, if I had to pick I would pick NulledBB.

>>109589250
I didn't ask

>>109589262
You did indirectly

>>109589240
That is completely irreverent to the points I made, and if it's so easy to bot and visibility is your prime concern then bot your own posts, it's easy! right? Seems like a utopia for you, endless visibility with the hottest posts, you'll be on the late night shows for sure.

>>109589240
I don't need to bot upvotes at all. If you need to bot upvotes you are doing it wrong.

>>109589272
you have a narcissists perspective. I dont care about my posts. My concern is merely that a few retards control the entire website because they have more influence with botting than the regular users do.

Its just a marketing platform distributing fake popular opinions to normies.

Your sites are probably vibecoded slop, explains why nobody wants to use it

>>109589292
lmao your whole perspective is about attention, a bunch of idiots talking about things they don't know anything about is nothing new
so the real question is what your motivation is, so let's not project that onto me, it's not me complaining about updoots on reddit and crying about forums dying -- as if forums were some epic concentration of intellectual discussion
it's okay anon, you're a displaced forum moderator that isn't up to snuff on reddit because even reddit bullies you for being a tyrant

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>>109589292
If you are in marketing, or your goal is to market something, you should probably engineer your marketing to be palatable to the group you are marketing the product to.

There are different angles you can use to market something. Propose you were to be selling something, say, women's shampoo products. What can I say to convince a hypothetical woman to purchase my women's shampoo product. Well, the first thing I would do is to research what appeals to women in general, and measure what is successful in appealing to women. I used Yandex to search for this and found this: http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/826/appealing-to-women-an-analysis-of-print-advertisements-in-three-womens-interest-magazines

I prompted Claude Opus 4.8 with this:

"http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/826/appealing-to-women-an-analysis-of-print-advertisements-in-three-womens-interest-magazines

Distill this into key actionable marketing insights. I am now looking to market my shampoo to women. How can I do this?"

For brevity, I will spare you the full output, but Claude gave this


A strong shampoo ad based on this research would combine:

A clear performance promise (headline)
Ingredient proof points (supporting copy)
An emotionally resonant photo of a relatable woman enjoying the result
A sensory/social hook (scent, ritual, or compliments)
A frictionless "where to buy" call to action.

One caveat: this study is from 2013 and focused on print magazine ads. The underlying psychology (emotion, performance, ingredients, relatable imagery) translates well to digital and social channels, but you'll want to adapt formats—short video, influencer content, and user-generated "results" posts are the modern equivalents of the celebrity/relatable-person approach the study praised.
If you'd like, I can help you draft actual ad copy, a tagline, or a channel-specific campaign plan (Instagram, TikTok, retail) tailored to your shampoo's specific differentiator.

>>109589232
visibility is not all about attention you faggot, it also helps people get exposed to niche topics, media, tech, whatever. If you post about something niche on reddit, people don't know it and it gets buried down if it's a comment or not shown to anyone if it's a post. At least on forums there's a chance someone will notice it during the few days your post is at page 1, or maybe someone who uses the forum as their go-to place about X will search about it and revive your post, generating discussion

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>>109589399
are you dumb?

>>109589354
my perspective is people are getting misled on a platform that pretends to be user content but is really just dominated by viral marketers. And idiots doing stupid shit on command was always a problem for everyone longterm.

>>109589416
thank god you're here to be the truth auditor

>>109589427
and whats your role? bitch&moan constantly? Born to be karen?

>>109589412
how does this help when you're the one making the post?

>>109589412
I made a custom sorting algorithm that indexes /g/ by quality (with metrics i defined for ascertaining content quality)

I use it sometimes

>>109585927
>Whenever I make a FOSS social media, alternative to Discord or whatever, people reject it aggressively.
well stop fucking making them then and grow the one you already have

>>109589444
whoa there anon I can only hold up so many mirrors
I'm trying to help you work through this temper tantrum so that you can come to the logical conclusion that you're the problem
my role is more like jester or troll, I need no external validation because my actions amuse me

>>109589445
whoa there anon, this isn't about your own personal validation and visibility remember?

>>109589476
wow, you're retarded.

>>109589577
I can't help it if you can't remember your own arguments because you lie about your motivations. Ironic given your title of Arbiter of Truth while employed in the Anti-Misinformation Division. I would hope in the future you can keep straight if you're mad about lack of attention due to algorithmic suppression vs an appeal against the masses having dumb opinions on a platform you hate.

>>109589606
you're replying to two different people, idiot

>>109588395
BSD is freedom, GPL is not.

>>109590069
BSD is giving you a gun with no safety. GPL is the same gun, but it's a Glock.

>>109590080
what?

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>>109590107
It's a metaphor.

BSD = Go ahead, be a retard and shoot yourself.
GPL = No, I will not allow you to do that. I will take you to court and prevent you from killing yourself. I will exercise all legal means at my disposal to litigate and destroy you if you trample on my rights. I do not give you permission to use my source code in your proprietary project without sharing alike.


It's really just that simple. I was fooled once into thinking that BSD was the "freer" option, it is not. I sometimes license my work under the BSD license, the CC0 license, or the GPL, or the AGPLV3. I do not have to be consistent with the license I choose for my works, and neither do you nor does anyone.

Hope that helps.

>>109585927
Look man. You should just accept like Skype and Teamspeak did. there will only ever be one voice chat app people will use. It can be the shittest app in the world, but because everyone uses Discord, the only place to go is Discord. This isn't psychology, this is pragmatic. Once Discord tips over for the last time, the next competitor will stick. But you and I don't know when that last time is gonna be, just as Skype didn't know. But it came fast, hit hard, and now Skype is useless. Because whats a communication app if theres no one to communicate with?

>>109590069
GPL is freedom for all normal people. If you're a fucking bastard that wants to make money while standing atop other people's shoulders, then you get rightfully fucked up the ass and out of the mouth sideways, as it should be.

>>109586777
Good advice to focus on having actual features.

You need to have the "killer app" mindset. What thing distinguishes you from others? If you don't offer anything new what incentive is there to switch? Removing features everything else has is also a good idea because so many of them are terrible and interfere with user experience.

>>109590476
>Removing features everything else has is also a good idea because so many of them are terrible and interfere with user experience.
Yes, it's the google strategy (offer the core product and nothing but the core product, not a billion switches and gizmos to get a first search result).

>>109588139
You are peripheral to correct. The core idea is right - the base audience (most frequent/heavy users) of any tech product are inherently fucked up people who would spend all of their time on some app. These people also fuck it up for everyone else and shit up the public spaces. The answer is to pay attention to this and find ways to remedy it. Discouraging the obsessed super user, who is usually a deranged shut-in of some kind, isn't as hard as you think.

>>109585927
>when I link a video to some friend on Discord
You're interacting with cattle. This is why.

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>>109588873
>It won't help
It can. In relation to the example I gave, the more interesting parts of data-oriented design (beyond muh structure of arrays) are largely attempts at carrying over ideas from database programming into local software optimization.

>>109585927
I started a phpBB forum last year and it gets daily posts and has cultivated a small userbase. For me what worked is identifying people who were interested in both the main topic (which if you're starting a project like this you need some sort of unique hook that isn't being done elsewhere) AND interested in alternatives to social media. You can find these people in more technically inclined spaces usually, but also browsing normie social media for people who have posting habits that would fit in was a big thing too.

In my case what I'd do is look for Xitter posters who had lots of multi-tweet posts or whatever the fuck they do to uncap the character limit, find Steam profiles with long articulate game reviews, find people who already have a presence on some alternative sites but haven't committed to anyone place, etc. Then I simply reached out to them directly, talk to them about stuff I noticed after lurking their online presence, and eventually I drop the link at an appropriate time. If you run a platform like this it's really easy to naturally sneak it into the conversation and I've had a far better return on investment through direct correspondence than I have via public advertising.

>>109588051
>I AM SILLY

>>109585927
>Back then it was "build it and they will come", now it's "fuck off with your shit reddit clone."
Maybe stop asking reddit mods opinion.

>>109587802
>FEDiverse
The name itself makes me never trust that site nor even visit it

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>>109588766
The biggest problem with forums is how atomised they were. If I like anime, cars, and guns then I'm not a member of 3+ forums across 3+ websites. Compare this to plebbit where one account gives me access to infini"forums".

Same for Discord.
Many people ITT are focused on a lack of features or bad UX/UI but none of that shit matters to USER ACQUISITION which is always the key metric, even above user retention.
>>109588051
>Unironically liking pizzacunt
I've seen it. It's on the internet.

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>>109585927
>when I link a video to some friend on Discord...
I severely doubt this is true unless it doesn't hotlink and the site named is called something along the lines of heilhitlernigga.ru, which yeah its going to raise some eyebrows and if your "friend" doesn't trust you, they're not going to click on it due to how often people get hit by scams, this is just basic common sense even in the ye olde days if you link to some site without context, im not defending technical illiteracy or anything like that its just a plain lack of trust between the sender and receiver which will cause something like this
>whenever I tell people discord might not be....
you're correct, but going to random people who really don't care for your opinion isn't really going to solve anything, when discord announced they're going to start age checking 10% of their users earlier this year all of my friend groups worth a damn started to consider their options and we eventually agreed on moving to fluxer when the time comes, I find it difficult to believe that reasonable people don't have any qualms with discord
>getting your project off the ground in 2026....
yeah it does suck I'll give you that, but if you create a project that rivals the alternative in every aspect but popularity people will use it if you play your cards right and start advertising it in the right spaces
however doing that is actually really fucking difficult, a good example is just about all the discord alternatives fucking suck and heavily lack in features and accessibility people want to have, other than the aforementioned fluxer the amount of clones that are even remotely usable is miniscule, same goes for every major platform out there but they all have some nice alternatives that people do use

You sound like a faggot who is boring as shit, i wouldnt listen to you even if you had an actual good idea. You should first become a likeable person before pitching ideas to people.

>>109589167
This only happens on places with annoying power jannies and overbearing moderation, which you shouldn't browse anyway. If there's hardly any moderation then a clique can't develop because active users can't get special treatment if no or few actions are taken. I've used normie forums with light moderation and cliquiness doesn't tend to exist in any real capacity on them, signed up for one site like this with 10-20 years of history and was treated no differently than any other user would be. Saying that all forums are cliquey is like when normalfags act as though all of 4chan is just /pol/.

>>109594906
>if you do the rights things the right way at the right time your project will be successful
What a useless post.
>moving to fluxer when the time comes
Spoiler: they're never going to move.

>>109598057
awfully big assumptions to make, consider taking the cocks out of your pessimistic ass before posting

>>109595063
uh oh, melty

>>109598774
You must be 13 years or older to use this internet web sight.

>>109586960
I have an opening for a project manager. Interested?

>>109600819
Sure, what's the pay and when do I start? I have a 3 months notice period by the way.

>>109585927
The small community of the internet is gone, the great herd of nigger cattle are conditioned to pass through the gates of YouTube, Facebook, Google, etc. if you want their attention, you have to appease the gate keepers

>>109588644
i don't use discord, reddit, or tiktok, zoom zoom. you have to actually enjoy something in the present to be nostalgic of it in the future.

Discord was great back in the day, way easier to use than Skype. I remember liking it almost as much as IRC.

No idea what it's like now, I stopped using it once I got a regular job, wife, kids. When I want to hang out with my buddies I just go grab a beer instead, they live pretty close by. Is it bad these days?

>>109603242
>Discord was great back in the day, way easier to use than Skype. I remember liking it almost as much as IRC.
You clearly never used skype lmao

>>109586156
discord's UI is so cluttered lol

>>109585927
>people reject it aggressively.
don't bother proselytizing (which sometimes happens unintentionally when you try to market to software). most people don't like being preached to. remember: the people who are not interested are not your demographic.

wrt initial target demographic (in business term: market penetration strategy) start with early adapters and/or more narrow/specialized needs. and try to grow organically from there.

>people don't just ignore it, they get...they get hostile and defensive
i iterate for emphasis: the naysayers are not your demographic.

also, communication/soft skills helps. focus on constructive feedback. sometimes it help explicitly asking for it. example
> i think my software has potential. does anyone have constructive comments?

>>109585927
No one gives a fuck about your opinions. The retards will stay on their datacrawler websites, a handful of power users will use other sites and services.
That won’t change, in fact, it will get even more entrenched.

They don’t want to be convinced. They are idiots. Let them make their retarded mistakes.