>>109608037china already collapsed. they eat dogs and all live in rice fields. zeihan is based and knows this stuff.MAGA!ISRAEL FIRST AND ONLY!
>>109608037The US should not be able to dictate who a foreign sovereign country can trade with.
WW3 is inevitable at this point. Remove the economic ties, and you'll remove the reason for maintaining peace.
>>109608097Who exactly would fight for any Western country? The young men who are told they don't belong here and are bad people for pointing out the problems?
oh werrr....*make it by themselves*
>>109608089They can't, which is why they can tell the dutch cucks what to do.>>109608223They'll just start shoving people into vans like they do in the Ukraine, and then start bringing in Indians to replace them once they're all dead.
>>109608223>The young menThe group of disarmed and pacified men you mean? The ones who are on camera and being recorded at every waking moment by hundreds of smart devices in their vicinity?
>>109608089theyre trading american IP thoughbeit
>>109608325>They'll just start shoving people into vans like they do in the Ukraine,Ukrainians have a thousand years of history tolerating that sort of thing. Most countries do not have that culture.
>does nothing...>wins
>>109608522Without weapons they can't do shit.They will obey, like the good goys they are.
>>109608545That only goes so far. America was a nation when your pic related happened. It is not one now.
>>109608037That one time Google tried to shit on Huawei they accidentally created chink Apple.
>>109608089They license the IP from the us, retard.
>>109608089you must be new to this world. ever heard of sanctions?
>>109608089It's not their technology to sell, it's ours. This isn't fucking Civilization 2
>>109608525>Winning is when you’re so retarded that you can’t even copy a 10-year-old technology you had the complete blueprint forK
>>109608394>>109608914Sheeeeeeeeit
>>109608037Ban them from selling them new equipment going forward or not selling them anything include replacement parts? If its the later, China's tech industry basically dies within the year.
>>109610762OMG.Its fucking OVER for China if this passes.
>>109609246>>109609071Asml dwveloped the tech. The US didn't. The US would have built it if they had. And international law is bs. The Dutch could just tell the US to fuck off if they wanted to and refuse to sell to the US and the US would cave like bitches. Ptoblem for the US is that they don't manufacture chips or the machines that build the chips.
>>109610799>>109610933Asml own 100% of their one US supplier. The US would cave if Asml refused to sell machines to the US and thry should do that. The US cannot build chips.
>>109608525cause everyone knows if China does something, it will lose.
>>109608079nooo, chinnnnaa!!!!
>>109610952Kane LIVES!!!!
>>109608545Just shoot him???
>>109610970They probably didn't know that's why he was there.
>>109608037Its already too late and it just creates more incentive for domestic R&D. I wonder what will happen when somebody outside the USA's bubble leapfrogs it.
>>109611176Lithography machines takes literally the top minds from all over the world coming together to work on the next gen machines.Most of the shit is actually birthed over at IMEC now and it has people from all over the world working on R&D and we're still not finding a leapfrog away from EUV anytime soon.Good luck to China if they honestly think they will do it all by themselves.
>>109608394>>109608914reminder that IP isn't real, a construct that exists only in the mind of a jew lawyer.
>>109610945>>109610933>The Dutch could just tell the US to fuck off if they wanted to and refuse to sell to the USOy vey, that's a threat to national security and it's grounds to invoke the hague invasion act, O ALGO.Imagine thinking any of these Natostan shitholes would ever do anything like that. Even Spain refusing to allow flights going to the Iran war was quickly punished with massive waves of (((migrants))).
>>109611201He's right. You are facing a continent size country with proven human capital. For them it's their own manhattan project. It wouldn't take long for them break that celling.
>>109611228>with proven human capitalChina stole OLED, folding screens, DDR5, and bought LCD tech all from Samsung. EVs they learned from Tesla, batteries from panasonic and others, hypersonics from Russia, jets from US via Israel, commercial planes from boeing and airbus, etc.Everything they have was pioneered by others. China has nothing purely innovative that they made. They won't ever catch up. They don't have the culture, the research quality, nor experience in innovation.China is fucked.
Why is the Jewnited States allowed to "force" white countries to do anything?
>>109608643This, and it's more broke than ever. Good luck selling war bonds to add to the pile of treasuryslop. History also proves whoever has more manufacturing tends to win wars, and US sold all that shit off to their biggest competition. Oopsie.
The Great Satan is getting desperate kekYou can't stop China, ban all you want
>>109611333Because those "countries" would become fawning slaves to Chang if left to their own devices.
>>109608037and The Netherlands is part of the US since ...?Perhaps the writer of the article pictured in OP's post should bone up on his geography (which countries go where, which places are part of what country, etc.).In view of the statement about U.S. preparing to "foce," perhaps he should also work on his spelling.Now I'm not going to say the picture is AI-generated fake news but...Oops, I just did. ;)
>>109608307>*make it by themselves*exactly. china is a country run by scientists and rather than just sell them yours you force them to invent something better
>>109608089These journoids love to spark outrage with their vague, clickbaity headlines.The truth is that the US makes some unique components that ASML cannot do without.So just as companies like Apple and Nvidia need ASML, so does ASML need US-based Cymer for their fancy pants lasers.Not listening to US demands might mean no more lasers for ASML, which would halt their entire production chain until a replacement can be found.
>>109608037They think 1 ban in the chain is going to stop everything? Wrong!
>>109611657Except Asml owns 100% of Cymer. It's not a US company anymore. Deepmind, which makes all of Google's AI models, is a UK company, but that doesn't give the UK any power over Deepmind.
>>109608223I am sure our intellectual elite would set up devastating commssions.>>109608089>sovereign countrySee he problem, anon?>>109610933>Asml dwveloped the tech. The US didn't.This is wrong. The core tech is US tech. ASML is an integrator.>The US would have built it if they had.This makes no sense.>And international law is bs. The Dutch could just tell the US to fuck off if they wanted to and refuse to sell to the US and the US would cave like bitches.Hilarious.>Ptoblem for the US is that they don't manufacture chips or the machines that build the chips.Also wrong.
>>109611221It is sufficiently real for the US to prosecute infringers.>>109611227Spain likes migrant, they use them as super cheap semi legal workforce in agriculture, and when they leave, they go north and is no longer a Spanish problem or concern.>>109611228>It wouldn't take long for them break that celling.So why haven't they done that already rather than using bandaid solutions?>>109611320Also high speed train tech was stolen from Japan.
>>109608089They can't the US is a vessel state run by monkeys with the combined IQ of a cactus. Its why they are getting their arse handed to them by Iran again.
>>109611837Bro, ASML built that shit and are building it. The US would be building it if it was US tech. This is like saying that only Britain can use calculus. It's a combo of tech from ASML, Zeiss, and many other companies.
>>109608037how is this gonna work when we leave NATO? seems like Yurop might get the idea that they don't have to placate us anymore
>>109612055Then you don't get computer chips anymore.Can't make chips with bought patents alone.
>>109612081Yeah idk if the US is in the spot to just FUBAR relations with an entire continent, but i guess we'll see
>>109611588>and The Netherlands is part of the US since ...?1945. Strictly 1946 when they sealed the deal by selling their last chance at sovereignity for a pointless attempt to reclaim rule over brown people on the other side of the globe.
>>109608089>sovereign citizens Lol
>>109611333Because the US has the superior military.
>>109608037and how exactly are they going to "force" them?nuke them?le tariffs?this is not going to work.
>>109608325zigger meltie, what blew up now?
>>109610954Toppest kek
>>109608089cool it down with the antisemitism nigger
>>109608325>They'll just start shoving people into vans like they do in the UkraineNah they'll start cutting off meds and services to your family and call it rationing. 90% of Americans are some kind of nigger. They'll make sure your route to maximum importance is dying in a ditch.
At what point do amerimutts and yurocucks drop their God-of-the-gaps cope that surely China won't surpass us on THIS technology, they've finally hit their ceiling
>>109608089Netherlands isnt even a real country, they owe their existence to us. Whats their contribution to the world? South Africa? Great. Without the US they'd be getting raped by Vlad
>>109612460>Whats their contribution to the world?dude weed
>>109612335They'll send their rusty tin cans from the persian gulf
>>109611846>It's real because gubmint said so
>>109608089asml is an american company hq in the netherlands
>>109608545Strait's still closed btw
>>109608545Makes sense. That's why he is positioned near the front so he can block the rear people from rushing out on the beach.
>>109608394The US is trading Dutch IP.How about the EU and the US just sanction each other and have the whole semiconductor industry come to a grinding halt?
>>109608079lmao
If it is American why not produce it in America then? Not enough skilled H-2B engineers?Also why not build 20 of them just like China is doing.
>>109611837The two most important technologies for ASML's high-end machines come from Zeiss (Germany) and Trumpf (Germany). Zeiss supplies the optics, and Trumpf supplies the laser technology.If you want to build EUV systems yourself, these are the two biggest technological hurdles.
>>109612854>ok yes i agreed to these rules but i should be allowed to break them with no consequencesHow much melanin does your skin have?
>>109611201They are a rich powerfully country they can make insane offers to the talent to contribute to their projects. Reminds me of the Nvidia situation
The US is 'international law'. Remember that everytime you wrongfully think your yuropoor pissant country has any agency of its own.
>>109608089A literal who EU cuckstate is not a "sovereign country"
>>109610933>>109610945If the Dutch told international IP law to fuck off, the US would be justified in doing the same to EU IPThere's a fuckton of EU corporations that would come down hard on the Dutch for even threatening to do it, the whole global economy would fall apart
>>109614094You need to understand the intersectional mindset. The logic is that everything the oppressed does is morally right, while everything the oppressor does in response is immoral. In this case, the dutch violating the rules of trade and stealing shit from america would be justified because amerikkka is the oppressor. However, if america retaliated in any way whatsoever, this would be immoral because the dutch are oppressed by amerikkka. Understanding these kinds of people is useful in other situations too. Ever been confused by people trying to excuse reprehensible crimes, like refugees raping children? This is the system of morality that they believe in.
>>109608545Why didn't they just shoot the MP?
>>109610954You can't kill the messiah!
>>109614453Then what? Where's the boat going to go? It's at a beach where there's an enemy, or it can go back to the ship where there's plenty of people who will not take kindly to killing of the MP. The boat can't really go further than the ship without the ship.And you're in full kit so you can't swim very far at all, even if you know how.
>>109608037Right as they're finishing pulling them apart and building their own copies. Well done orange retard.
>>109614045>>109614075This mindset is why the US is losing power quickly.>>109614094International law does not matter anymore. The US has already violated it.
>>109608097The large war over who controls the future started almost five years ago you mong (you're losing btw)
>>109608089The US can because it actually own the technology
>>109610799I like the strategy of "instead of being superior by incentivizing the best minds in the world to be on our side and having the best technological edge the world has ever seen, we force our allies to conspire and make our rivals have worse technology". In no way will this ever come back to bite us in the ass when the tides change.
>>109616030>Now, in the process of opening up the equipment, the individuals broke down the DUV machinery.>Chinese engineers were actually keen to 'reverse engineer' ASML's DUV equipment, according to a report from The National Interest. >according to a report from The National Interest. >The National InterestMight as well just cite the CIA directly
>>109615897>america killed some brown kids in bumfuckistan therefore i should be allowed to ignore copyright law and completely torpedo international trade and the entire world economy
>>109616012Wrong. Don't put this on the US and other countries.China should have spent their time building a dedicated R&D pipeline that is geared towards actually producing production worthy goods and services like the US and Koreans did. Instead they thought it would be faster for them to just steal IP and thus encouraged theft as a means to close the gap. That is now back firing on China as countries are looking to cut them off and rightly so.Now China has to figure out how to focus on actual QUALITY of research instead of QUANTITY. Something they don't have experience doing and something that takes decades to mature. Korea is leading in many segments like OLED, HBM, folding and now stretchable screens, and glasses less 3D, all because their research into these technologies started over a decade ago and each step of the research had a specific purpose and intended goal. China has never done such and they don't have any experience guiding their collective efforts like this. China is now going to reap the consequences it sowed for decades.
>>109616104>SAISjust cite the CIA
>>109608089Did you unironically think Europeans could ever innovate in any field nowadays?
>>109616120>zhang-gu copeyeah, you should have learned how to innovate instead of stealing everything. you're al just a discount Samsung at best but really a generic brand of tofu dreg quality.
>>109615897>The US has already violated it.that's funny. US is the international law, the law can't violate itself
>>109616163umm sweetie, america killed hecking brownerinos in durkastan so ummm yeah that means europe should be allowed to steal all of america's tech
>>109616188The fuck are you niggers even saying?
>>109616197The retard we are responding to is insisting that europe should be allowed to violate international trade laws because america commits war crimes whenever middle eastern war #2823 starts up.
>>109616104The CCP national motto is: 能骗就骗,能偷就偷"If you can cheat, cheat; if you can steal, steal."
>>109616140keep seething gook
>>109616238Why would he have to seethe? Its China stealing from Koreans, not the other way around, Chang.
>>109608037Yankee dog desparation at its finest!!!
>>109616236Funny. That's what the US did to Britain and Germany during the Industrial Revolution.
>>109616130Europe built Asml. The most impressive company in human history.>>109616163Lol. This mindset is why the US is losing its soft power.
>>109616366>Europe built Asmlusing american technology
>>109616247Gooks are koreans, retard.
>>109616408Context much, retard?The only one seething is you after 'china being a discount samsung' was mentioned. It makes no sense that an alleged korean would be mad at that comment as its true. you're a discount tofu dreg country who can only steal.能骗就骗,能偷就偷
>>109613869The scanners are the most important, that's why ASML is ASML. Not Cymer, not Zeiss.
>>109616451blah blah blahkeep seething mutt
>>109616504No, its all of those components coming together that makes ASML ASML. And the frosting on top if the proprietary algorithms to synchronize it all.>>109616512>keeps projectingchang, you're the only one seething because you're embarrassed that yet again, you're outed as being a discount samsung country that only steals.
>>109608089swift is de facto an arm of the us govt at this point, american should be treated as a hostile foreign actorif cips became the world standard america would completely lose its ability to rack up national debt and its crumbling empire would fall into ruin
>>109611320this. The only thing you can give to China is scaling everything up to an absurd level to make it cheaper( they can easily do this because of authoritarian regime and low labor cost) and making things very efficient which is the usual engineering playbook, which isn't that novel compared to actually inventing something new. This is why most of their AI is efficient and cheap but doesn't really offer something ground breaking. Their robots are also not that impressive since it is just replicating what Boston Dynamics have done decades ago. I will stand corrected once a Chinese company does something akin to Iphone announcement moment or OpenAI releasing Chatgpt moment. Something that will make the world go OH SHIT.
>>109616615>since it is just replicating what Boston Dynamics have done decades agoFunny that you mention it.Boston Dynamics released grand total of zero product. Now it's broke and got sold off to South Korea.
look at these gooks, they even copied trademarked look of new york!
>>109616657>Boston Dynamics released grand total of zero product.False. Spot is being sold to enterprise, industrial, and research customers. But anyway, it doesn't really change anything about what I said concerning China.
>>109608037this is retarded. didn't the chinese already say they would start producing their own DUV machines this year? if so, this will only push them to build them even faster lmaothanks for the forcing china to make cheap chips, mr. Trump!
>>109616895at best 28nm and thats even a pipe dream
>>109616895>>109616938They can't even make something as simple as ballpoint LMAO
this >>109617015 is a bot>>109616938from https://xcancel.com/deedydas/status/2081950585750962302>The current machines are equivalents of ASML NXT:1980Di, a 28nm tool that reaches 7nm with multi-patterning, which is 10-15yrs behind frontier. For comparison, the new Vera Rubins are on an EUV 3nm node. And China’s still ramping capacity, projecting 20 machines in 2027 vs ~130 DUV/yr and ~45 EUV/yr from ASML.so, just 28nm.
>>109617051It still uses key components that they'd have to import which will be banned by the MATCH Act.Its not looking good.
>>109617057anon, you need to do some more googling. the chinese are researching every single part of the manufacturing process to replace parts and supplies from other countries.they might even end up copying new Musks terafab...
>>109617057They can just buy from black market in collaboration with Chinese glowies, the same way that they've been doing with Nvidia GPUs.
>>109617072changcel, you need to come to terms with the idea that these things aren't solvable overnight and much won't be solved at all.>>109617075I love when people with zero idea of how these machines work in the real world chime in like this. Its not like changing the oil on a car, you can't just grab a filter off the shelf and screw it in and call it good. These parts are programmed to work with a specific machine and calibrated to work with the variances of that particular machine (remember, being off by even the smallest amount ruins microchips that have features measured by the number of atoms). You can't just plug and play, it takes special tools to open up the machine and even more tools to put it back together and China can't replicate those (or they wouldn't have had to ask ASML to fix the machines they broke when they went into reverse engineering them). And then you need to authorize those parts to work/talk with the rest of the machines and good luck breaking that security especially when each core part has its own unique set of keys.
>>109617093>changcel, you need to come to terms with the idea that these things aren't solvable overnight and much won't be solved at all.funny that you say that. meanwhile, we have incredible cheap tech that people can use in their fucking labs, stuff that used to be available only to big corporations and cost a LOT of money now can be bought for tens of thousands of dollars at most.check this guys channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AppliedScience/videos, you'll see relatively cheap scanners, microscopes and spectrometers, and even DIY X-ray machines. that tech helps you develop tools to see and modify reality at nanometer-level scales.yeah, I'm sure the chinese won't take advantage of these tools to create their own machines much faster than it took their original creators...
>>109617142>total strawmanYeah, talk is cheap and all that. Come back and post up when China actually carries through on any of this shit, chang.
>>109617169>being shown proof of advances in materials sciences and engineering = strawman/g/ - """Technology"""
>>109617205>basic shit vs most advanced tool humans have madeyeah, low iq moron chang.
>>109608089HAHAHAHAHAHAHA fuck off. The US should be raping you up the ass. The US WILL once we get this retard out of office and actually get someone who is willing to increase the interests of the US.
>>109617219>missing the point like this/g/ - """Technology"""I'm not gonna spoonfeed you, btw.
>>109617241you can deflect out of butthurt all you want, chang. talk is cheap. show results or fuck off. You're dead without western tools.
>>109617142>>109617253>china will be able to DIY cutting edge tech because they have microscopes
>>109617259you are now banned from r/sino
>>109611131How could they not know though, his face is blue and he looks like a little kike rat
>>109616104China already has quality, in batteries, in PCB's and the stuff that go on PCB's, in mining and processing rare earth metals, and etc. Basically everything we need to make a computer.You could blame it on retarded US policy for not seeing that the boring, poorly paid unskilled worker jobs that mine minerals and assemble cheap, and cause tons of OSHA violations, health issues, and pollution for parts that make essentially no money at all are absolutely required to keep the high tech development inside of the country, because it's all about having the shorted supply chain to make things cheaper since shipping something over 10 hours in an air is too slow. Factory workers in china are essentially paid the same as US workers (how would the US compete if they actually paid factory workers a good wage? think about the company!).It's not a problem of "Quality" it's more like the US has nothing to show for itself, except that everyone ended up going to school to get a "first worlder job", meanwhile in china they are telling kids to stop getting educated because they don't want an educated workforce, they want factory workers, we are still like 10 years away from having every single product being assembled by robots.
>>109617417>Basically everything we need to make a computer.Except for a performant CPU and performant GPU.China is tofu dreg quality. End of story.
>>109617441>performant CPUHygons are manufactured in China.
>>109617509>Hygons>Uses IP licensed from AMD from the Zen 1 era. >Barely faster than an old ass 6700 mobile skuLike I said, performant CPU. One that is actually homegrown and not using AMD's designs.
>>109617517Please stop moving the goalposts it's fucking embarrassing. It's manufactured entirely in China, the government could just take all that magical IP and produce it.
>>109617531please even reach the goalpost.
>>109617417>China already has qualityThe only thing that china has in quality is green energy shit like solar panels and ev batteries. In everything else china is significantly behind.
>>109617517You are comparing the CPU that came out in 2021, last year they unveiled a 48 cores and 96 threads CPU that runs as fast as the 13700k.This will probably a piece of shit probably runs at 200 watts, but until a reviewer actually starts testing it, and if we can figure out which silicon it uses (is it SMIC? global foundries?), we don't know.No such thing as a bad product, only a bad price.
>>109617577>last year they unveiled a 48 cores and 96 threads CPU that runs as fast as the 13700k.at my skool, I unveiled my 2999 core and 4955 thread cpu that runs faster than god.I too can like like you chinese do.
>>109617577>No such thing as a bad product, only a bad price.No, you retard. If you cannot produce something at a competitive price it is a bad product.
>>109617588You can check cpubenchmark and it has a bunch of hygon C86-4G results.I guess they are just don't sell the CPU and only give the CPU to the military because china is paranoid about having CPU's with backdoors.
>>109617577A 48/96 thread CPU running "as fast as" a 16/24 thread CPU isn't the flex you think it is.
>>109617627yeah, very sus. very fucking sus. like you can't do tomfoolery with benchmarks. kekmeanwhile you can actually buy our CPUs all over the world.
>>109617648I should have said, the 48/96 number is wrong, there are many versions of the C86-4G, with various numbers of CPU threads. I'm not sure which version the blog post I read is referencing, since I don't see a 96 thread CPU on cpubenchmark or any model name of the hygon CPU / picture.7950 is the newest hygon C86-4G I can find (128 threads).https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Hygon+C86-4G+%28OPN%3A7490%29&id=7314It's strange because this site (2024) says the 7950 should have 128 threads. Maybe the software is just not detecting it correctly (or a VM?), because if you compare the 32 thread CPU's (eg: 5440), the multi-core performance is more than 4x higher, but matches expectations of a 128 thread PC (I think it's weird to make a fake benchmark with the wrong number of threads, if this was a fake benchmark).https://wccftech.com/hygon-c86-7490-cpu-up-to-64-amd-zen-cores-dual-io-dies-12-channel-ddr5-sp5-socket/Obviously this aint worth it, for $5000 (assuming it's a single CPU), but it might support the SP5 pcie gen 5.0 lanes, which would be massive for AI, but there is no mention about it. And the SP5 socket can handle up to 400 watts. And a EPYC 9654p (same socket) has a 2x faster pcbenchmark score and it also costs $5000 and with 192 threads (I found a EPYC 9J14, which is identical for $2500). Maybe the listings on china are artificially more expensive than the actual bulk orders.
>>109608089We actually can because everyone else is pussy lmao
>>109617826Let me get this right. Ever since they got their hands on AMD's IP in 2016 for Zen cores and produced their first Zen-based chip in 2018, they're still hardstuck on Zen 1 cores 8 years later with the only improvement being DDR5 support? Implessive.
>>109617841I don't know the nanometer of the newer hygon CPU's at all, but if we assume it's still using the same global foundry 16/12nm process (I imagine translating AMD's zen1 tools to SMIC is difficult), the performance improvement could be massive with a 7nm DUV (but maybe they are sanctioned from global foundries?).
>>109617870you moron. hygon cpu's were fabbed by GF on their 14nm process. No one has proven to be making newer 7nm versions of their chips at all.
>>109617870>>109617893Process aside, the fact that they sat on their asses doing fuck all for 8 years instead of trying to make some iterative improvements on 10 year old Zen cores is peak implessivity.
>pay billions for the Union>EU is nowhere to be found when a member state is literally threatened by the US
>>109608037lmao this will just "force" china into making their own faster
>>109616089>Might as well just cite the CIA directly>>109616120>just cite the CIAI trust the CIA more than I trust journalists.
The USA conquered Europe after WW2. It's time to throw these gangsters out and let them collapse.
>>109609111Making those machines isn't exactly easy. Still, Chine is set to have their first EUV prototype in 2030.
