>>109755697>but not in chinalies
>>109755710good morning sirs
>be china>control the news>say that something is working, is it? Dunno Xijang told me from his brother's uncle it works>can't question it>be usa>one option for solar roofs changes course (keep in mind this is just the individual based tile solar setup)>CHINA WINS!I'll care when the US/EU Co2 and greenhouse gas emission maps don't have China and India clearly being a massive fucking issue.
>>109755697Retards finally realized solar tiles aren't economical and full-size solar panels are much more practical and cost-effective
>buying a roof from a car company
>>109755697The US is too concerned with short-term gain. Case-in-point: Publicly traded companies are the only ones which publicly need to disclose their financials and also need to guarantee quarterly earnings. That means RnD, buying up useful start-ups and funding institutes to cooperate with only is feasible if you got massive income streams which generate more than what they themselves cost, the cost of the aforementioned and a little more so you're still profitable and even then there might be a leaner competitor which piques more interest from investors.
>>109755948Anon china just up and steals the RnD as seen with their most recent venture of ram.China often boasts the total theoretical capacities of their 'green' energy rather than what is feasible.
>>109755961I doubt that China performs that much traditional corporate espionage. I've believed that, too, however, they apparently have had contracts which make you share knowledge if they are supposed to manufacture for you. >China often boasts the total theoretical capacities of their 'green' energy rather than what is feasible.Yeah, that's just journos being sensationalists.
>>109755961The west makes it easy for China to steal RnD by hiring H1B Chinese workers for cheap instead of developing domestic talent. Why would a Chinese citizen working in the US be loyal to the country of their employer whose only reason for employing the Chinese was so the company could shit on local workers?
>>109755759Actually I think tiles are better than regular ones. For example you could block 10% of surface and it would massively ruin performance of your entire panel. There are new ones that work better though.
>>109755697>Over roughly seven years, Tesla installed only about 3,000 Solar Roof systems across the USstill, thats 3000 more Solar Roofs than Roadsters out there. And that probably only because installs were subcontracted to non finger up their arse local firms.What is the actual basic problem with this as idea, cost per sq ft v panels?
>>109755697Solar freaking rooftops
So now you're unable to get replacement tiles if one were to break or malfunction? LOL
>>109755729i live somewhere china doesn't control and i can confirm chinese greentech is working wonderfully in my home>>109755961kys micron employee i hope you jump from a rooftop in 5 years when DDR5 becomes as abundant as cobblestone thanks to cxmt and ymtc busting open the DRAM/NAND oligopoly
>>109756406Tesla have been trousering deposits for Roadster Mk2 since November 2017, sans Roadster, Or any fucking sign of one. And you are complaining about spare parts?
>>109755697>Trusting Musk in the first placelmao
>>109756373>What is the actual basic problem with this as idea, cost per sq ft v panels?It's mostly the complexityYou're having to package thousands of individual solar cells which operating all on a single string.Faults in the panels or interconnects can basically stop the entire system from working. Then there is the shade issue with a string inverter.Like alot of Tesla shit, they are extremely cool ideas and products assuming they are perfectly reliable, but nothing is.Regular panels use microinverters which directly convert to 120V and all connect to a common circuit and are wholly independent from each other should a panel or inverter fail.Beyond some level of redundancy from failure, this is also infinitely scalable.
I suspect a major reason is geopolitics.US has a wide range of oil options. I mean, we just got into a "deal" with Venezuela to consume some billions of oil barrels. Seems like it would be "easier" to consume more oil than work on renewable energy.China has to deal with adversaries (e.g. US) blocking oil imports, so it's critical to them the country can function without it.Not to mention, the oil producing countries (Russia, Iran) associated with China are shitting the bed, so even more reason to transition away from oil as much as possible, as soon as possible.
>>109755697because china is about uplifting chinese and west is about pressing goyim into the ground
>>109755697tariffs, economies of scale>>109755961is that why their batteries are better than the competition?
>>109755888>what are synergies
>>109755697GreedSolar panels are dirt cheap, but installers want at least $10k-$20k for installation. It absolutely kills the return on investment. The $7,500 subsidy made solar panels a good buy, but Trump killed that. Electricity prices are increasing 15% a year though, so expect every upper middle class house to have solar in less than 5 years.
>>109757249are you sure it's on installers themselves and not on government with shit like certifications, licences, permissions and other middleman extortion shit
>>109755697i noticed that us companies with indian ceo can no longer innovate like they use to and they're always playing catch up. what's up with that?
>>109755697Most likely it is some bullshit regulatory requirements that make such a product non-viable in the US. It's also something that sounds a lot cooler than it really is. You still need a more or less normal roof and all a "solar roof" would do is put a layer on top with solar panels. The problem is that mounting anything on top of a normal roof requires punching holes, which are a problem on a roof. The other option is making the tiles themselves into a roofing material. Roofing materials are very cheap relative to electronics and importantly they need to cover a large amount of square footage. That is where electronics costs increase into untenable levels. Realistically the only way to do this is to make a low-rise platform for solar panels that glues onto a strip of roof tiles which are designed to be replaced more often. The solar panel platform would have some gaps built in to allow moisture to pass underneath to the normal roofing material.
>>109757987I just use velcro
Trump has a vendetta against green energy because Scotland built some windmills in view of his golf course. The fate of all Americans is determined on a day-to-day basis on the mad tyrant's demented whims. Industries rise and fall when he tells them to.There were billions of contracts, already paid, for the US to get more solar and wind power to be sustainable and energy independent but they were ripped up and we paid companies billions in taxpayer money for them to NOT build anything.
>>109755697>but not in chinaYou're not worth the 50 cents they're paying you.
>>109755697Damn almost like one country has petrodollar as the underpinning of its (fading) global primacy, thus the incentives to keep it around as long as possible, while the other has fuck all oil in the first place so it has to figure out alternatives
entire US economy is scams, the biggest scammer winssometimes he even becomes president
>>109758259Yeah, good thing he didn’t steal the election a second time
>pay poor Chinese peasant>he installs all your solar panels>cheap, even says thank you at the end>pay trillionaire man>rips you off>calls you pedo on his social network and bans you
to all the ccp agents in here:ching chong bing bong!
>>109755697US is too busy now burning all of its money to AI bubble, it don't have time to bother itself with such silly things like real world problems. Trillions must be sacrificed so closed cloud tech giants models could create fake images/videos, beat 20-year-old games, physically destroy historical books.
>>109755729>changes courseDon't look up the history of tesla lolThey've been running this scam for ages. It's a strategy to get a 0% loan from the customers.
>>109758379capitalism is amazinggo team usa!
>>109758094Good, the wind mills are a trillion dollar scam in Europe. I hope Trump sends special forces to pick up these wind mill politicians and grifters like he did with Maduro
>>109758542Wind power is very popular in the American mid west. Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa etc where Trump had his highest support.
>>109755729>be america>control the news >say that something is wrong, is it? Dunno.>Palantir will delete me from any public space if I disagree with their shareholders>Facebook will delete me from any public space if I disagree with their AI robots>Twitter will delete me from any public space if I disagree with Elon>Google will delete me from any public space if I disagree with their CEO>News organizations will simply pretend I don't exist even if I have concrete evidence something is wrong>can't question it>be USA>one option for solar roofs changes course (keep in mind this is just the individual based tile solar setup)>deleted from public space if you question it >left with six-figure losses for buying into an obvious pyramid scam>No one investigates what is an obvious blatant con game from the richest man in society.What is the difference? America is just China Jr but everything is shit. We can't even run the "BUT MUH CAMERAS" propaganda line anymore. We can't even argue that our stuff is superior because China makes it. These Solar Roof tiles? They come from China, too. They're replacing Chinese junk with cheaper Chinese junk, and having their customers foot the bill.
>>109755697Lack of commitment, usually renewables are only adopted for political brownie points. People in power would happily kill it in favour of oil companies.China on the other hand supports its adoption because the independence it offers is useful. Their draconian overreach is usually used for much dumber shit, but I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.
>>109758094>>109758561That's only because he's fine with it when he gets money out of it. The Texas energy barons are richer than god, way moreso than their European counterparts. He's fine with literally anything as long as he gets greased. That's why Elon is getting away with fucking over all of Tesla's customers from Door Handles to Solar Rooves after he was in charge of gutting the Consumer Rights organizations.
>>109757078/Thread
>>109758572>>109755697It's more insidious than that. This came with huge tax and utility benefits just two years ago when the last Government was trying to get everyone on board with off-the-grid Solar. Literally after this, Elon comes in and guts the watchdog groups that would have punished him for tossing out a better technology for one you can find off the shelf way cheaper than what Tesla sells it for. It would have been considered a scam if the organization that reviews scams wasn't currently defunded.
>>109755697The government subsidies ran out in the US.
>>109755961so does the west see Openai and co.
>>109755697This properties ullshit u as always going to fuck you over.Universal non proprietary systems will always prevail
>>109755697btw This also comes after we had rolling brownouts in America and Europe due to the massive heat waves and will have even more rolling brownouts as Winter rolls in and not everyone can heat their house. Things that the solar rollout was approved by the Biden admin to prevent. So good luck with that come January, you fucking morons. You're just going to do pic related again and go "I HAFTA OWN THE LIBS TO PROTECT DER FREEDUMB" and live shittier, more expensive lives to enrich people who hate you at a fundamental level.>>109758597So? Tesla shouldn't sell people a product they were going to pull the plug on and leave them holding the bag. This is literally illegal if we had a government who prosecuted Elon's crimes.
>>109755729This.We really should just geoblock Foreign governments from the internet.
>>109755961>Anon china just up and steals the RnD as seen with their most recent venture of ram.Good, our intellectual property con game is a scam. We have a market where we could easily get RAM if more competitors were allowed to make it , and instead the US Government is crawling on its hands and knees to beg the Tech companies to build fabricators in a market where they're profiteering through trusts. What kind of fucking banana republic sock puppet cumrag government has to BEG a corporation to build more of something to fix the market? Roosevelt would have these retards shot, declare their entire industry a trust, and have Fabs built after seizing their ill-gotten gains. And you'd probably think that's "Communism" instead of literally what any leader who cares about their country should be doing.
>>109755697greentech barely works anywhere, period. Look at yuros, so "green" that they have to import most of their energy
Green tech wins because it creates jobs and boosts the local economy, unlike the fuel-burning industry.
>>109758410this but unironically
>>109758592CFPB was always problematic because its structure made it functionally unaccountable. Maybe Lizzy should've worked a bit harder and put more faith in muh democracy.
>>109758145there's the rub. China can lose money on stuff if it's good, america - hell nooo.
>>109755697Retards keep buying proprietary crap.They're fucking diods man. They've got two sides: an anode, and a cathode. There's no fucking room for value add and people bought this shit anyway. Aristotle was 100% right, most people like being slaves and it's cruel to try to force them to be free.
>>109758597>The government subsidies ran out in the US.chinese solar panels are much more expensive in the US than everywhere else in the world. and that's not due to USG subsidies.>>109758673retard
American roofs are retarded anyway they basically put carpet on them and have to replace them they only last 20 years asinine their whole housing construction industry makes no sense. On youtube there are millionaires building their entire houses out of wood just wood everywhere their house which was made of wood burned down and will be replaced with another house made of nothing but wood.
>>109755697Unironically because we have too many environmental regulations. In the UK there was a case where a farmer wanted to install some solar panels on marginal land (basically, land too shitty to grow anything). He wrote to the Green-led council for permission because property rights don't exist anymore, and they responded that he'd have to dig a pit to put them in (???) so it wouldn't ruin anyone's view. Again, this is shitty land in the middle of nowhere, not whatever idyllic countryside you're imagining in your head. Anyway, this doubled the cost of installation so he ended up not doing it. The supermajority of environmentalists in the West believe we should solve climate change by first passing regulations that triple the cost of clean energy projects, and then having the government subsidize these projects by 40%, so we can take out billions of debt and still have things be too expensive. They're also opposed to nuclear power plants, because they think they explode like a hydrogen bomb when they melt down.In China, if you own a bunch of land you can just put a huge solar panel factory there if you want, and they power the factories with coal to save money. Much better strategy.(Pic related: most of the difference is due to environmental regulation.)
>>109755697How do you know "greentech" is "not failing" in China?Because they say so?
>live up north>solar panels are useless in the winter because snow kind of exists>live down south>solar panels get fucked by rain, hurricanes, rust formation>live in desert>solar panels might be okay until the sandstorms hit
Excellent bait thread. Tesla's solar roof tile failed not solar in general.Your picture should provide all the info you need. It can't reach the same economies of scale as simpler large panel installations. In addition each installation needs to be specifically adapted to the roof since the tiles are the roof, you can't employ cookie cutter patterns.
So, I don't really care about the politics of this thread or whatever.I just want to know how many solar panels will I need to install in order to make my electricity bill $0.
>>109762155Ask Grok. Impossible if you have a long dark winter. Possible in more sunnier places coupled with batteries.
>>109755697Overproduce in the USA? Companies start cutting prices to offload stock. Also, some states (California) prohibit solar installations to keep money flowing to public utilities.Overproduce in China? No problem; you can sell under the price of production to other countries through export conglomerates and the government will make you whole.
>>109758561>Wind is popular in Texas and Oklahoma, major oil and natural gas statesProof?>>109762355>(California) prohibits solar installationsProof?
>>109763549You can look the details up by yourself.
>>109764331I concede on wind in Texas and Oklahoma, I didn't know that and I was wrong. Didn't find anything on California.
>>109755697Free market capitalism vs state capitalism
>>109755697you answered it without realizing it. the us companies can't compete with china
>>109764331VT / NH are the worst on here because the turbines actually fuck up the biggest thing these states have going for them, which is the landscape. They put them on the tops of mountains and then for like 100 mile radius, you see these industrial eye stores, they might as well be smoke stacks.
>>109755729hey bitch-ass gora India produces all of your shiteasy to have zero emissions when all you do is masturbate to cartoons
>>109761956>have to dig a pit to put them inThat has nothing to do with environmental regulations, and everything to do with Karens. Either way, that's a fucking travesty.
>109762059>109762009>109758673>>109758357>109758542>109755961>109755729>109755710The sheer ididiocy of miggers borders on outright satire at this point. Good fucking lord.
