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File: perl.jpg (36 KB, 500x253)
36 KB JPG
Why did it fall into obscurity?
>>
python
>>
>>109782036
Perl 6 was the duke nukem 3d of languages. Delayed for 20 years, and when it finally came out, it was an entirely different language. In the meantime, ruby and python took its niche.
>>
>>109782036
Obscurity? I use AI to port everyone's Rust to Perl.
>>
>>109782036
US invaded the middle east and the camel population took a hit. This is the dame reason ocaml is relatively obscure.
>>
>>109782036
Looks like Ocaml
>>
>>109782036
>>ö<<
>>
>>109782036
Probably because Larry Wall is a devout Christian and is therefore unfathomably based. This society tries to destroy any semblance of good especially when it relates to their coming control mechanism (computers and/or AI).
>>
because people are niggers
>>
>>109782044
sad but true fpbp
>>
>>109782763
EPBP
>>
>>109782763
fair a tony minority are not niggers or mentally dfeective though
>>
>>109782036
It's not compatible with modern programmers.
Too many glyphs and obscure quirks within quirks to remember.
Perl code is also rarely portable between systems because, whoops, turns out that nice "built in" feature you were using was actually a CPAN module your OS preinstalled, while others may not.

It's a good language but the only thing it has over python nowadays is "It's on more (very simple, minimalistic) systems".
And a much better CLI experience which is what I think you should still learn it for. It's like a more powerful grep / sed/ awk built into one tool, so you only have to learn one obscure syntax and function names. And it's more consistent than those tools between different unix-likes.
>>
>>109782110
Based
>>109782080
Pretty much this. Larry could never quite get things over the hump and he let too much community faggotry derail the process. It also didn't help that his two right hand men came to hate each other, with one of them being convicted of several felonies (though they were later forgiven).
>>
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>>109782866
>over the hump
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>>109782080
I use raku now for some things, it’s one of the best languages ever made for getting shit done. Maybe *the* best.
It has a huge performance problem though, both in startup and in execution. I think python might actually be faster—and that’s saying something. They’re definitely in the same tier, perfomance wise. Which is to say: Terrible.
>>
Perl is comfy. Was the second programming language I learned when I started playing around with computers as a kid. Picked up a book on it from the library and started messing around with regexes and text manipulation and shit. It was my main "personal" language for a while, until I found Ruby, which is just as expressive and flexible, but much more comfy in syntax and ecosystem.
>>
>>109782036
i get paid six figures to write perl lol
>>
>>109782044
This.
Python also killed Ruby which is a much bigger tragedy imo
>>
>>109782866
Randal did nothing wrong
>>
>>109785413
wasn't ruby one trick pony (rails) eaten alive by node.js? nobody used it for literally anything else
>>
Can't be Python. It's still not production ready. Still cares about spacing.
>>
>>109782036
>Why shit language get trashed on?
Gee I don't know anon, maybe because they suck?
>>
>>109785386
thank god ai will replace you and your fake job
>>
>>109785618
ruby is a general purpose scripting language. It could be used for any of the random ops scripts that are currently being written in python/js/go, but it got overtaken by python and fell into obscurity. I think the primary reason is that the ruby community started out japanese-first (poorly translated docs and japanese forums etc) while python was english-first. Then python took data science and node took web and that was gg.
>>
>>109782080
For what purpose? Doesn't perl 5 have all the features one can need? Why the need for change?
>>
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>>109785758
Python is better architected, it has Zen. for example, it had safety guard against threading model, that was only recently removed.

Perl/Ruby are just full gas no breaks into the chaos, just go to https://github.com/ruby/ruby it looks like a junkyard - an huge list of files mish-mashed into a big pile.

there anyone can confirm that idea "Worse is Better" is a cow poop. The order and The structure prevails. simple as that. obviously everything goes into obscurity, entropy is defeated by quitting updoot cycle.
>>
>>109786092
>GIL is actually a good thing
People have been actively hating this "feature" of python for 20 years.

>but I need to be physically prevented from doing bad things!
That's a personal problem.
>>
>>109785467
He didn't deserve to be convicted of multiple felonies but he did act like a retarded toddler throwing a temper tantrum over his advice not being taken. We don't let people burn down houses to prove how vulnerable they are to being burnt down.
>>
>>109786175
>People have been

doesnt matter. "people" came to a wrong (the same) "solution" that was constrained for 20 years. i didnt say GIL was good btw, you have hallucinations.

better solution appeared in JS btw, thats why its even more popular, though its kinda haptic and also fading
>>
>>109786208
Oh, randy is who you’re talking about, lol.
The goat.
>>
>>109782036
Because it's overgrown shell scripting for text parsing that is good at cgi and server scripting, and we have better solutions than that.

Python and node can do much more, and sh scripts are lighter. You can write both parser, and the server itself in python, and then a 3d game. Perl is almost dsl.
>>
>>109782811
>It's not compatible with modern programmers.
>Too many glyphs and obscure quirks within quirks to remember.
what planet do you live on
>>
>>109786092
ruby and perl are literally the antithesis of "worse is better" you fucking moron
>>
>>109785758
>>109785618
remember "chef"? this was a devops/config management tool written in ruby
>>
>>109785804
People didn't like the way Perl 5 did OOP. It was pretty janky.
>>
>>109782036
>My code? Idiomatic
>My types? Dynamic
>My programmers? Felons
Oh yeah it's perl time
>>
>>109786753
Perl didnt even get to GNUnix shell scripting, it failed to replace bash/sh and there is no PID 1 init system in either Ruby (hello Oligarchy linux) or Perl. they are failures at general purpose.

i only saw Perl as a dependency to Git or alike, sorta primodal slime.. wanna Ruby?, git clone ruby repo dude! oh you need Git? oh downlooo this Perl thing then, thats how it sticks.
>>
>>109782036
whats the best language to do sysadmin stuff now? i hate python
>>
>>109787969
Bash for tiny things, python for small-to-medium things, go for medium-to-large things.
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>>109787969
Honestly, perl 5 is still extremely good in the sysadmin and text wrangling space (which are the same thing often). It is also on every single server you'll ever encounter and extremely fast.
>>
>>109787969
Shell scripting
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>>109787969
OpenWrt uses lua for a lot of stuff. Python is still the GOAT imo.
>>
Stagnant development. Python stole its thunder with its active development.
>>
I use perl to scrape
#!/usr/bin/sh

# usage: 4dl.sh URL | aria2c -i -
IFS='/'
set -- $1

curl -sSL "https://a.4cdn.org/$4/thread/$6.json" | perl -lne 'print "https://i.4cdn.org/'"$4"'/$3$2'"\n out=\$1\$2"'" while(m/filename":"(.*?)","ext":"(.*?)".*?"tim":(.*?),/g)'
>>
>>109782080
>duke nukem 3d
You're thinking of Duke Nukem Forever, not 3D. Fucking zoomers...
>>
>>109789799
Hyprland is also moving to Lua for scripting.
>>
Oldfag here, Perl died because its niche (routine sysadmin custom scripting tasks) doesn't exist anymore.
>>
Tranny creator
LUA is a better single pass scripting language
Python is a better multipage language
>>
>>109791033
sorry man i never played the duke games
>>
That was the first book on computers I ever read and I didn’t understand jack shit.
>>
>>109782036
I remember someone said python was dead, simply because they didn't see social media marketing for a couple of month...

Most languages simply exist, c++ and python are atypical having 10x books released each year and lets not forget rust with even regards the linux kernel as pr-stunt.
>>
>>109782044
I remember perl was the shit back in the late 90s early 00s. I was writing scripts interning at a studio in perl. Their whole 3d rendering pipeline was glued with perl.

Really it was google pushing the shit out of python. It's too bad since the perl regular expressions were the best. Python re is so cumbersome.
>>
>>109792413
>Python re is so cumbersome.
they have a module for perl re
>>
>>109785644
i work in an industry that cannot allow ai to write or ship code. i'll be fine :)
>>
>>109785386
>i get paid six figures to write perl
>>109794241
>an industry that cannot allow ai to write or ship code
Might you be able to elaborate?
>>
>>109791364
> replaced by
What?
Perl fell out of favour for me, because I do everything in sh.
Things that are too complicated for sh, I do in awk.
If it’s going to be a struggle in awk, then I resort to Perl
>>
>>109782036
i wonder
sub load_users {
my ($fh, $wanted) = @_;

my %users;

while (<$fh>) {
next if /^\s*(?:#|$)/;
chomp;

my ($name, $flags, $email) = split /\s*:\s*/, $_, 3;

next unless defined $name && length $name;
next if $wanted && !grep { $_ eq $name } @$wanted;

$users{lc $name} = {
email => $email =~ s/^\s+|\s+$//gr,
active => $flags =~ /\bactive\b/i ? 1 : 0,
roles => [
map { lc }
grep { length }
split /,\s*/, $flags
],
};
}

return wantarray ? %users : \%users;
}
>>
>>109782080
>duke nukem 3d
dumbass bitch
you can tell this zoomer watched a youtube essay on the topic
>>
File: 1760414978157.png (320 KB, 925x508)
320 KB PNG
with perl (You) press less buttons for same result
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>>109798323
im actually older than you, i just misremembered.
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>>109782036
>@
Scared nocoders shitless
Yes tech is that stupid
People who don't code decide popular languages by their *potential*
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>>109782044
and php for web
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File: ohmy.png (25 KB, 422x599)
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>>109787364
>>
>>109797898
looks kinda soulful to me. the warts are definitely noticeable, though
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>>109782036
in syntax as intricate as C++, in speed as sluggish as Python.
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>>109797898
now we know what is ZigRust is based upon
>>
>>109797898
Replace ! with not and
&&
with and for maximum sovl
>>
>>109799481
On the path to ZigguRakuRust https://github.com/Raku/problem-solving/blob/main/solutions/language/Path-to-Raku.md

i dont get it, there was 15 years of development and still the rename happens after release to create more problems.

imo the path of upgrade should start with API/library, but they do "the language" simply because it is the same monolith or megalith
>>
>>109799356
>syntax as intricate as C++
May the gods bless my day by making such retards die
>>
>>109799513
>maximum sovl
*maximum faggotry
>>
> "There's more than one way to do it" (TMTOWTDI)

equivalent to

> "Worse is Better"

thus, the Python with

> "There should be one— and preferably only one —obvious way to do it."

that is

> "Better is Better"

prevails
>>
>>109797898
it looks like
def load_users(fh, wanted):
users = {}
with open(fh, "r") as f:
for line in f.readlines():
if re.match(r'^\s*$', line) or re.match(r'^\s*?#', line):
continue
name, flag, email = [x.strip() for x in line.split(":")][:3]
if name and not name in wanted:
continue
flags = [x.lower().strip() for x in flag.split(":")]
users[name.lower()] = {
"email" : email,
"active" : "active" in flags,
"roles" : flags
}
return users
>>
>>109785413
I'm so glad Python defeated Ruby. Ruby is effectively equivalent to Pyhon on pure productivity and comes with all the same core downsides/tradeoffs as Python (eg shit performance, dodgy ecosystem, etc.). But it was a massive fad and had a ton of programmers pouring energy into it with very mixed results. People easily swayed by trends and fads got on the ruby bandwagon and had a big party for 4-5 years. They got a lot accomplished on pure enthusiasm and brute force, despite lacking common sense or robust knowledge of computer science.

As soon as new trends came along, all the coffee shop hipsters abandoned Ruby for the next fad. Meanwhile, Python was always there. Steady, reliable, chugging away, getting important but unsexy work done, gaining traction slowly year after year.

>>109786092
>Perl/Ruby are just full gas no breaks into the chaos
This is true too. But in its heydey, Perl was the clear winner in the scripting space and nothing else came close. Perl had some wacky ideas and mistakes that doomed it in the end, but still got a lot of the scripting fundamentals right at a time when no one else did. I still know people using Perl.

>>109786092
>anyone can confirm that idea "Worse is Better" is a cow poop. The order and The structure prevails. simple as that. obviously everything goes into obscurity, entropy is defeated by quitting updoot cycle.
Don't really agree with this, though. Javascript is chaotic as hell and has prevailed anyway.

>>109787969
If you hate Python you can just use Ruby. It's more or less equivalent in terms of productivity and nobody gives a shit what scripting language you use. You can also try Babashka which is a Clojure runtime that uses graalvm to get around the slow JVM startup time.

>>109792413
>Really it was google pushing the shit out of python.
Google just gave a little more energy to the same steady trend that had been going for years.
>>
>>109799320
Perl is absolutely soulful. But it can also be a massive pain in the ass, with a high cognitive load required to use compared its main competitors. (A big downside in the scripting niche)
>>
>>109803719
The appeal of Ruby was almost entirely because of why's charisma in the webcomic era and because its competition at the time wasn't Python but PHP, and my late nan would've ran rings round PHP. Few stuck with it long enough to realise it didn't solve any problems and wasn't that different to other toy languages.
>>
>>109782036
I wrote my first perl CGI script and its the crappiest buggiest piece of shit Ive written yet
I have to keep FTPing onto the server to fix it
It feels more footgun-ey than C
skill issue or language issue?
>>
>>109804263
How retarded do you have to be to fuck up a CGI script. The ease with which you can do that is what made perl popular in the first place
>>
>>109782036
Security issues?
I'm not sure of the specifics but I do remember reading that you shouldn't use it for everything.

But, that said, it's by far the easiest and most problem free script lang I've learned and used. I don't know what it did differently to bash, python, shell, powershell, javascript, c++, etc but I remember enjoying using Perl unlike those other ones.
>>
>>109786549
Yeah but py has esoteric crap that happens far too often for me.
And it's buggy.
Perl just seems to work for me.
>>
>>109805018
>enjoying using Perl
A lot of it is thanks to a community that actually enjoys programming in of itself rather than doing it for some corposlop
>>
>>109797898
I know we're all 150+ IQ here but the fact that this code cannot be easily parsed by skimming past it is the reason Perl lost.
>>
>>109805047
I will admit that a lot of that was to do with amazing community and forums with tips and help. But that was a few years ago. I don't know if it's still like that.

Bash and Python's docs are pretty lousy huh. C++ has better docs than it in my opinion. Older versions that is. Don't know about newer versions. Bash is an absolute nightmare to look up things on.
Good clear concise documentation and helpful forums are super important huh.

I was actually cooking my linux vms with Perl when I was more actively doing that.
>>
>>109805097
>t. pythonjeet
>>
>>109805005
its not the CGI script part but im parsing multiple RSS feeds and then storing them into YAML files. Then loading the yaml file and reconstituting them into a RSS feed on a CGI request. And theres specific filtering rules and stuff. Sometimes the YAML state file just becomes empty because an error occurs and now the resulting set is empty or something.
I probably shouldve gone with JSON but I heard YAML is more "perl native"
Also I didnt use CGI.pm I just formatted it all myself
>>
>>109782036
syntax probably the random stuff like shift and @ for arrays its like an upgraded bash script with library support i like it and the book he wrote is really good
>>
>>109782416
Retarded post but what made Perl so appealing before was how good the book was, at least for me. Larry Wall was endlessly charming (no wonder he has a bunch of entries in fortune) especially compared to how stuck up most language lead devs nowadays are.
>>
>>109803719
>. Javascript is chaotic

DSL boost - a browser is a killer app (still). also it is not the "chaotic" syntax, its inherited from C/C++
>>
>>109795704
Niche company that provides a niche service in the defense industry. Been in business for decades with no signs of slowing down.
>>
>>109809315
>Been in business for decades with no signs of slowing down
Do you know other industries with that same type (and/or level) of demand for Perl?
>>
>>109782036
php killed it
>>
File: bio.jpg (85 KB, 845x1080)
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Though not a primary cause, the failure of the bioinformatics industry to take off is a contributing factor. As more of the web started moving to things like ASP/JSP and Cold Fusion, bioinformatics was poised to be the next big thing for Perl. O'Reilly in particular went all in on it, thinking the market would be huge. Instead it was a wet fart and many Perl developers who pointed their career in that direction had to retool, at which point they left Perl behind.
By the time biology started accessing Big Data, Python had become the standard data processing language for that market segment.
>>
>>109809540
grim
>>
>>109809499
No because I don't care.



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