ur bit
https://urbit.org/blog/hoon-4-lispers
https://github.com/urbit/hoon-mode.el

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>>109871463
Kurt, I gotta break it to you, but Hoon sounds like some kind of obscure anti-Jewish slur.

GAS ALL HOONS

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EWM or Reka?
https://codeberg.org/ezemtsov/ewm
https://codeberg.org/tazjin/reka

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>>109872103
Do you think a wooden door could stop him?

>>109872140

you're perhaps looking for
kill -9 -1

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>>109872140
>guile scheme wayland window-manager based on river and inspired by emacs and stumpwm
https://github.com/ebeem/gliver

Christ it's fucking incredible how hard Emacs is to replace and I say this as someone who's tired of its deficiencies.

>>109872140
KDE

Some anon asked about the Konhad/K. Yes,it's he and he worked on Nubank. The code of Nubank was wrote using Cljoure and the K had part on work, and this is the motive to he be part of the image.
But talking about the 55. The channel doesn't exist more.

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get this urshit trash outta here
Clojure gang

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>>109872140
EXWM or bust

>>109873191
>https://github.com/ebeem/gliver
another rabbithole to dive down

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>>109868448
>https://autolith.rocks
Impressive, very nice.

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Lisp is nice but you guy know what would be cooler? if someone takes the metaprogramming aspect from lisp and uses it for either a functional or OO paradigm. imagine functions or objects as data in the Self or Haskell languages.

>>109875507
So Coalton?
https://github.com/coalton-lang/coalton

>>109875540
Looks nice, bookmarked.

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>>109875496
Lisp Machine? Interesting
>It is not a “small game engine”, but it is pretty close to a Lisp Machine
https://github.com/lambda-symbolics/autolith

>>109873701
emac is love
emac is life

>>109872140
exwm ftw vibeslop out

>>109875507
You can already do functional or OO in Lisp

>>109875496
>nix run

>>109871435
Why did they name it after a speech impediment?

>>109875507
CLOS provides a really capable object system. People who have never gotten to use multimethods don't know what they're missing.
https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/clos.html#generic-functions-defgeneric-defmethod

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>>109872140
>https://codeberg.org/ezemtsov/ewm/wiki/GPU-Emacs
Interesting

https://zenodo.org/records/22867958

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hoon

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>>109881005
>arvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdtv99fZhQQ

>>109878766
>single-threaded

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Would you wear a Nock shirt?

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>>109884356
no because I can’t explain it

https://github.com/MasonProtter/Lispy.jl
It's a collection of Julia macros that lets you write Julia with sexps. This currently only works on the unreleased Julia v1.14 nightly. It will never work with v1.13 or less.

>>109871435
>>109871463
>>109872096
billionaire trying to infiltrate online communities to spread his pol diarrhea


>>109873798
>>109873798

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Lisp?

The absolute state. These threads used to be some of the best on this site and one of the few reasons I still come here.

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>>109871435
>>109871463
>Lots of syntax
>No macros
>Basically the opposite approach to that of Lisp
I frankly don't see the commonality with Lisp at all. Pic related is a real quote from their whitepaper. Yarvin's languages have more in common with Perl than with Lisp.

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>>109885328
>billionaire
Like Nubank? Cool. We need more funding for Lisp projects.

>>109885774
I heard Hoon was more like an ML kind of thing but made by/for a guy who was writing an OS

>>109885774
>I frankly don't see the commonality with Lisp at all.
Jewish creator associated with "AI".

Is there any point to installing a foreign Lisp when the thing is so small it fits in a boot sector so you might as well make it yourself?

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>>109885774
>syntax
Not every Lisp uses S-expressions. See CGOL, MLisp, Dylan, LOGO, Rhombus, etc.

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What's with the anti-Jewish sentiment in this thread all of a sudden? Take it to /pol/.

>>109885960
I wasn't even trying to be antisemitic, that's literally the only thing they have in common.

>>109885960
McCarthy was jewish but hated communism so he was antisemitic by today's standards.

I have no idea how to do
>eval
>macros
>quoting
in my hosted Lisp
The goal is to have a small embeddable language like Lua except in Rust

>>109885960 >>109885979
alonzo church was our based lambda calculus founding father and he has church in his name

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>>109885945
Stephen Wolfram's Mathematica language is also worth mentioning. Its syntax is very similar to M-expressions.

>>109886006
Winner of the obfuscated cellular automaton award.

>>109886006
oh wow thats so elegant

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>>109885960
((())) is a hate symbol nowadays
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/echo

>>109885993
I guess I need to rewrite my entire compilation logic from &Syntax to &Value and transform &Syntax into &Value first

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>>109886050
https://coincidencedetector.com/
It's not maintained anymore, but it still works on Firefox.

>>109885993
>I have no idea how to do
>eval
>macros
>quoting
>in my hosted Lisp
Eval is a function that you pass an expression and an environment. Then you have like a switch with a case statement for each different kind of expression.
Is it self evaluating? (t and nil, numbers, characters, strings, keywords if you have them)
Then you just return it as is.
Is it a symbol? Then you look up the value of the symbol in the environment and return it.
Is it a list? Then you get the symbol in the car of the list and look it up in the environment.
If the symbol is for a special form, then you have a case statement in the switch for what to do with that special form.
If the symbol is for a function, then you recursively call eval on each item in the rest of the list to evaluate them, then pass them as arguments to the function.
If you have fexprs, you pass the rest of list as arguments to the fexpr unevaluated. You also pass it the environment. (A fexpr is a function with lazily evaluated parameters that can also be passed an environment)
And I guess if the symbol is for a macro, then it's expanded and then evaluated? I'm not quite sure when expansion usually happens.
Quote is a special form so is specially handled in eval. If quote symbol is used, '... , then it turns into (quote ... ) with the ... being whatever was quoted. Then the cdr of the list is returned unevaluated. So it's like the self evaluating things, whatever is quoted just gets passed back (without the quote)

Macros you can think of as like functions with lazily evaluated arguments that return a list. And then that list gets evaluated.
You'll want to either have a way to create gensyms, which are symbols guaranteed to be unique, so they can avoid being captured when used in macros. Or, you can make your macros hygienic, which means they have symbols that are like, in a separate namespace or something, so automatically avoid capture, and you have to deliberately turn capturing on for a symbol.

How do we feel about Urbit finally being viable for real-world use?

>>109887766
Somehow “I couldn’t care less” is still an understatement

>>109886019
At least Mathematica has sensible naming: Flatten, Last, Length, Max, Min and so on. That is lightyears ahead of the strange vocabulary of Hoon:
>"noun", "cell", "gate", "door", "core", "chapter", "trap", "tape", "jet", "wing", "arm", "leg", "face", "mold"
And the massive amounts of idiosyncratic syntax:
>+|, +$, |$, |_, |:, |%, |., |^, |-, |~, |*, |=, |@, |?, $|, $_, $%, $:, $<, $>, $-, $^, $&, $~, $@, $=, $?, %_, %:, %., %-, %^, %+, %~, %*, %=, :_, :-, :^, :+, :~, :*, ::, .^, .+, .*, .=, .?, /%, /-, /+, /=, /*, /~, /?, ^|, ^:, ^., ^-, ^+, ^&, ^~, ^*, ^=, ^?, ;:, ;/, ;<, ;+, ;;, ;~, :*, ;=, ~|, ~$, ~_, ~%, ~/, ~<, ~>, ~+, ~&, ~&, ~=, ~?, ~!, =|, =:, =,, =., =/, =<, =>, =-, =^, =+, =;, =~, =*, =?, ?|, ?:, ?., ?<, ?>, ?-, ?^, ?+, ?@, ?~, ?=, ?!, !:, !,, !., !<, !>, !;, !@, !=, !?, !!
I'd rather write Wolfram Language than Moldbug Perl. It's not even a contest.

>>109873191
vibe status?

>>109885993
>eval
Read chapter 4.1.1 of SICP, chapter 22.1 of PAIP, "The Roots of Lisp" by Paul Graham, and this effortpost by an anon: >>109887143

>kurbit, coom, zonk, troon
why everything right wing digital grifters/beggars do gets astroturfed

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>>109890116
Lisp was created by a right-winger.
https://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/politics/politics.html

>>109885960
anyone who can't implement list on their own is a nigger

>>109890333
*lisp

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>>109874050
>Violation of Global Rule 3-e
Could we not?

>>109886050
>>109886929
>>109890333
Go back to >>>/pol/

>>109890896
>>>/r/eddit

>>109890268
operative word being grifter

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>>109885960
>sees Hoon being disrespected
>accuses the thread of antisemitism
Curious.

Just give me pharo but daily drivable as a hosted OS and in Lisp

>>109892070
I posted the CLISP screenshot (>>109885960), and I am neither a Jew nor a Hoon user. The issue here is that the whole thread goes downhill if it is permitted to be flooded with /pol/ spam. That has nothing to do with Lisp, so take it elsewhere.

>>109892147
>pharo
Usecase?

>>109892339
>that has nothing to do with Lisp
Mr SICP himself sussman thinks he descended from the rabbi that created the original golem

>>109890886
>You will not post any of the following outside of /b/: Loli/shota pornography
what's pornographic about that image

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>>109892438
>the rabbi that created the original golem
That's folklore. The most famous version of the legend involves the Maharal of Prague, but it was probably invented sometime in the early 19th century, long after his time.

It is correct that Sussman dedicated his Ph.D. thesis to him (pic related).

I was going to make a lisp but it's too jewed up. What's a different syntax that scratches the same itch?

>>109892974
>what's pornographic about that image
The fact that the subject has pulled down their underwear? Stop playing stupid.

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>>109893031
>What's a different syntax that scratches the same itch?
M-expressions.

>>109893127
Well m-expressions were made by mccarthy and s-expressions by russell so if anything s-expressions are more goycoded

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>>109893031
S-expression = Superior Expression. Everything else is goylang shit.
https://borretti.me/article/why-lisp-syntax-works

>>109893031
use [] instead of ()
save your shift key

>>109893908
I actually started with this but after a few months went back to parens, parens are unfortunately just a lot easier to read especially when it gets nested

>>109893917
even if you have rainbow brackets?
or maybe use a different font?

>>109893933
Yeah even rainbow'd up. I only tried a couple fonts so you might be onto something, I'll revisit it again at some point

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>>109893032
>the subject has pulled down their underwear
i think you're just, like, projecting

>>109884983
>https://github.com/MasonProtter/Lispy.jl
It has a ton, a fuckton of syntax compared to Lisp.
No thanks.

>>109875507
>Lisp is nice but you guy know what would be cooler? if someone takes the metaprogramming aspect from lisp and uses it for either a functional or OO paradigm.
Yeah, Lisp would be cooler if it had the features of Common Lisp. /s

>>109893955
Not interested in playing games. Suffice it to say that >>109874050 is a clear violation of Global Rule #3, and >>109893955 is just skirting the edges and is therefore a violation of the spirit of the rules. Stop.

>>109894078
>le heckin rules
just GTFO faggot

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>>109894105
>le heckin rules
You are in violation of Global Rule #3 and probably also #5. If you keep on like this, the moderation team might take action against you.

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>>109894180
What's next? Me being b& for heckin racism for calling (You) a rulecucked nigger faggot? Good.

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>>109894384
>What's next?
Someone might report your posts, and then the moderation team will take a look at them.

>>109894488
>announcing a report
holy retarded rulecucked nigger faggot

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>>109884983
>https://github.com/MasonProtter/Lispy.jl
Lispy Julia? Interesting.

>>109887143
Thanks for the post.
Right now my symbols are statically resolved to local, global or upvalue slots
I know how it should work logically, I already wrote a tree walker that was closer to proper Lisp semantics

>>109889550
I can't read books because of my ADHD

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>>109894689
>I can't read books
Ponder the definition of eval, then. As you can see, it is a very simple function in its essence. It's basically just a bunch of cases, and all you have to do is implement each case correctly.

man just follow this if youve never implemented a lisp before
https://www.norvig.com/lispy.html

>>109894790
>>109894737
I literally implemented a tree walker once already... with proper eval and quoting...
I just don't know how to do it with a bytecode VM elegantly

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>>109894799
You want to compile Lisp to bytecode? Not sure I understand what you're asking, but writing a compiler is rather more involved than writing an interpreter. The essential structure of a simple compiler is quite similar to that of an interpreter, though: it is just a bunch of basic cases, each of which has to be handled correctly.

TIL an eshell's environment is separate from the rest of emacs. If you do setenv operations in eshell, they don't affect the parent emacs process. Furtheremore, if you have more than one eshell, each eshell instance has its own environment variables.

I'm a little weirded out about this, because eshell instances don't seem to get their own process.

;; This doesn't give me anything when run in eshell.
(get-buffer-process (current-buffer))

M-x list-processes doesn't show me anything either. I'm trying to understand how eshell environments are setup.

>>109895367
>I'm a little weirded out about this, because eshell instances don't seem to get their own process.
I think I figured it out.
It doesn't need a new process to get environment isolation, because emacs provides the process-environment variable that's buffer-local and can be used to override environment variables in a buffer-local way.

# In eshell:
echo $process-environment

>>109894689
>I can't read books because of my ADHD
what if you read a little bit of a book and then ask claude or chatgpt about what you just read and have a conversation
I dunno if you’ve dropped by >>>/g/vcg/ but they’re kind of good at programming

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>>109893422
>>109894790
>(Some have joked that "Lisp" stands for "Lots of Irritating Silly Parentheses"; I think it stand for "Lisp Is Syntactically Pure".)
Trvke

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neat

>>109897448
finally

>>109894893
JVM?

lambda
https://www.philipzucker.com/lambda_miller_egg/

(defun pandoc (input &key (from "html") (to "plain"))
  "Convert `input' string using pandoc.
The default is to convert from html to plain(text)."
  (with-input-from-string (s input)
    (uiop:run-program (format nil "pandoc -f ~a -t ~a" from to) :input s :output :string)))

>>109900830
If you want to target the JVM, you can: (1) write a Lisp that compiles to Clojure; (2) write a Lisp that compiles to Java; (3) write a Lisp that compiles to JVM bytecode; or (4) just write Clojure and call it a day. Not sure what people in this thread are trying to do, but those are your options.

>>109904722
Or I can compile jvm bytecode to Lisp.

>>109905355
>compile jvm bytecode to Lisp
You need a decompiler for that, e.g., clj-java-decompiler.

>>109905910
Not exactly. https://github.com/atgreen/openldk "decompiles", or rather translates, or "transpiles" if you like, JVM bytecode to Lisp code, which is then compiled to native code.
>>109904722
You can also just write in ABCL and call it a day.

reminder that Clojure has an entirely dynamic approach to programming (no classes even) that gets rid of all useless ceremony. its multimethods are supported by a more generic mechanism than even CLOS.

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>>109906472
>https://github.com/atgreen/openldk
That doesn't do decompilation, though. It translates Java bytecode into something that can be run in a Common Lisp environment, granted, but it doesn't make a heuristic attempt to reconstruct the higher-level code that said bytecode was generated from, which is what "decompilation" means. Perhaps there would be little value in doing so, since the end goal is to translate pic related to native machine code.

>>109906760
is it nil because it is nil? is it nil because of an error? is it an exception because it is nil? ....
(-> my-fist your-ass)

>>109906760
Elaborate, please. And feel free to ignore rude people (>>109907697).

>>109907787
the core idea behind Clojure is to just use hash maps (immutable) for everything. you use keywords :like-this to represent the keys. Clojure has 1st-class support for :namespaced/keywords, so, if you want to represent something like a "class" or encapsulation of multiple values into an atomic thing, you just use multiple namespaced keywords. my user account?

{:user-account-lib/username "some-username"

 :user-account-lib/created-at
 (java.time.LocalDateTime.)

 :user-account-lib/password-salt whatever
 :user-account-lib/password-hash whatever}

notice the lack of `archival` keys, they simply are not included because the account is not archived yet. representing this with classes would require a unique class without archival information.
when you represent everything as maps with namespaced keywords, you can trivially merge data together and expect all passing around of information to just work. this allows things like the Ring API to just be passing around maps with absolute ease. no need for stupid ceremony around interfaces or whatever else you want to conjure up.
I highly suggest you watch some of Rich Hickey's earlier talks, they give a solid idea behind exactly what Clojure is meant to be: a language that gets rid of all ceremony around interacting with data. you can try to give excuses like "well programmers won't understand things if you don't have classes/types," but this really does not seem to happen in practice if you have good tests, which must exist for any system to be deemed reliable.
good talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=028LZLUB24s

>>109875507
>cooler
https://neo-whitepaper.netlify.app/
> A computer should be a living medium, not a toolbox. The program, operating system, live world environment, and development environment should be one thing, not four things communicating through APIs.

neo is that one thing: a live, homoiconic, classless, prototype based, pure object system that is simultaneously a programming language, an operating system, and a game engine (live world environment). Not three subsystems, but three ways of looking at the same object graph.

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Just wanted to say im rewriting my compilers professor's python code in racket because it makes more sense to me...also to train myself on racket and lisp.
that's about it see u guys

>>109908738
>I highly suggest you watch some of Rich Hickey's earlier talks
Thanks anon, I'll check it out.

>>109908738
this is all well and good until you're doing something that actually warrants mutability and doing it in clojure feels like a pizza wheel circumcision. so treating this as a one-up over CL is silly

Qwen3.8 has trouble matching parentheses. Is there a solution here? Should I try to make it read/write only wisp[0]?

[0] https://www.draketo.de/software/wisp.html

>>109911768
Wasn't an issue for me when I was using various qwen versions with claude code. What harness are you using? Try giving it a lot of sample Lisp code to look at first, even access to your quicklisp folder. In the worst case, let it write a Python program to run that counts parens manually and can be used to fix up mismatches.

>>109871435
>>Browse imageboards in Emacs Org-Mode
>https://github.com/eNotchy/4g

Been using this to browse fourchenners, it is great.

Can someone vibeslop up an eMacs packet for viewing nitter threads in org-mode, bitte-please??

>>109910882
mutation in Clojure is simple.

(let
  [some-variable
   (volatile! 40)]
  (vswap! some-variable + 2)
  (assert
    (= @some-variable 42)))

or, involving a collection:

(let
  [m
   (java.util.HashMap.)]
  (.put m "some-key" "some-value")
  (assert
    (.containsKey "some-key")))

I have no fucking idea what you are talking about when you say "pizza wheel circumcision"

>>109914314
woops, typo, missing `m` in `.containsKey`

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>>109913358
>Can someone vibeslop up an eMacs packet
Don't bother, it might not have the correct number of matching parentheses (>>109911768).

>>109892399
Pharo is more "alive" than even Common Lisp. for example, stack frames of your current "process" or "thread" or "context" are accessible and modifiable at runtime. much of this is implementation-specific and not generally possible in Common Lisp.

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>>109909676
DrRacket?

>>109917337
Im a larper so i just use emacs

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Anyone following the LLM debate?

>>109917468
>common lisp is the sloppiest of them all
CL sisters... our response?

>>109917468
Lisp = AI language
Everything else is cope

Life update: I'm starting to figure out eval but implementing it will be a pain

(display (let ((x display)) (eval x (interaction-environment))))

never knew closure values were self evaluating

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>>109918075
>Lisp = AI language
Symbolic artificial intelligence, sure. Neural networks are a different paradigm...

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>>109918075
trvke
https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/lisp/comments/1w1tydd/rlisp_noai_a_subreddit_for_nonai_content_for_the/p6qyyhw/?context=3#p6qyyhw

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>>109917417
Good.

>>109917468
I think you should be able to explain 'your' code and take responsability for it, not be a meat proxy.
I don't understand why people let '''agents''' commit with their name, since that is just sam altman or the black jew shitting in your code base.

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>historical
it is over

>>109917468
https://zyd.lol/lisp-against-the-machine.html

https://urbit.org/blog/this-month-in-urbit-september-2026

Urbitchads eating good

>>109915976
OK but it's slow as balls, doesn't compile, has the most retarded amateurish crapware-tier library ecosystem of any language, and can't do multithreading.

>>109922342
>Accepting - SBCL LLM generated code in source tree
>Hesitantly Accepting - CCL
It's over for common lisp.

>>109917468
>>109922342
>>109920427
Emacs sisters, do you think RMS will let us down and allow slop inside core emacs?

>>109923639
search for "bullshit generator" on his page, that's how he refers to LLMs, so it's unlikely
regardless if he allows it it would be a pretty massive compromise of his beliefs

>>109923687
Yeah I saw that. There's also an interview he did on YouTube where he says that llms are not ai. Video in shitalian with subtitles, sorry (rms speaks in English though) https://youtu.be/V6c7GtVtiGc?is=RgOK9uYMPhUFAscf

They might ban it from the legal angle too. They could be afraid that corpos would steal their code and then tell in court "well, this code was not really FSF's property because they generated it with an LLM, so it's public domain".

>>109923639
it's specially unlikely since emacs still requires copyright assignment

>>109923687
>>109923730
meanwhile linus torvalds is vibecooding his emac
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/editors/uemacs/uemacs.git/log/

>>109923881
>no commits for years
>suddenly starts shitting it up
linus is on par with a PM at this point
i'm not surprised he got hit hard by the koolaid

>>109923881
>>109923893
I cannot fucking stand Linus Torvalds

>>109923893
>at this point
He was like that nearly as soon as he released the first version of linux, because it gathered so much interest in the list he was immediately flooded with contribs.

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>AI no longer done in Lisp
>Rewritten my machine on new technology

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>>109923881
>meanwhile linus torvalds is vibecooding his emac

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>>109923893
>the man who has far more experience than me in evaluating commits for a worldwide project is wrong

>>109924525
Experience and skill are completely different issues. Torvalds is a good example of that.

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I like when half of the page is footnotes.

>>109917468
I used to be anti-LLM until I realized it is mostly out of non-technical virtue signalling about being against the AI industry in general, or "muh information theft" (I don't believe in IP). Being against how the industry is run is one thing but LLMs and other "AI" are still just technology. Treating entire projects "tainted" because of a LLM commit regardless of quality is retarded.
I still don't use LLMs because cloud models are inherently invasive to privacy and I don't have the hardware to run open models locally.

>>109924827
>or "muh information theft" (I don't believe in IP)
the difference being that ai jews are being allowed to get away with it and you'll be put into debt or jail over it
this isn't a valid argument

>>109924827
>Being against how the industry is run is one thing but LLMs and other "AI" are still just technology.
"AI" as it currently exists is hard from the slop bubble. Possible, but hard nonetheless.
And even just in a vacuum, it poses the inherent problem that retards blindly accept anything it shits out because their monkey brains turn off when they see words that feel vaguely like a human typed them.

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>>109924827
>Treating entire projects "tainted" because of a LLM commit regardless of quality is retarded.
That's the thing though, the quality is terrible.

>>109924929
>"AI" as it currently exists is hard from the slop bubble.
Hard to separate from*.
>>109924942
kek

>>109924915
While that's true the jews doing it pushes the normalization forward, instead of "nobody would EVER do it" now we have a solid case of people actually doing it.

>>109924827
I'm anti-AI because peter thiel is a gay jew rapist, Sam Altman is a gay jew rapist, Claude guy is a black gay jew and musk is a rapist pedo creep.

They'll use it to usher the coming of their dark lord, not to improve my life.

>>109925104
And oracle guy is an avatar of satan, regardless of being gay, jew or a pedo.

And Bill gates is a pedophile, other microshitters are indians.

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>>109925104
>They'll use it to usher the coming of their dark lord
I think their main goal is just to get people to spend a lot of money on tokens.

>>109925104
>>109925111
took the words out of my mouth
this is a massive powergrab and will be/is being used for mass surveillance on a scale we can't even imagine, people share more with these shitty ass chatbots than with their closest friends or family
anthropic is already doing predictive surveillance
the military is using it for fucking decision making
let's not even start talking about all the things they've already irreversibly and knowingly fucked up by their own admission like the internet, education and so on
seriously feel like i'm living in an alternate reality sometimes how did everyone universally become completely fucking retarded overnight

>>109925290
>how did everyone universally become completely fucking retarded overnight
We didn't listen to this guy. >>109875507

>>109925290
>the military is using it for fucking decision making
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Analysis_and_Replanning_Tool

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>>109925395
im aware this is a thing and it actually makes sense for that context but it really can't be compared to what they're doing nowadays like target selection with claude

>>109924915
>rules for thee not for me
That isn't unique to IP. And people complaining about "'AI' stealing art/code" never frame it that way. They want IP too; they want to lord over "their" art or code even after they willingly posted it over the public internet and act surprised any entity, including ones you don't like, can access it. Am I supposed to feel bad people who want to on the side where the rules benefit them at the expense of others but can't because they are poor/goyim?
>>109924929
>>109924942
Retards are being subsidized to (mis)use LLMs, so a lot of the bad output from LLMs is a result of how the industry is being ran.
>>109925290
>this is a massive powergrab and will be/is being used for mass surveillance on a scale we can't even imagine
You are the retard if you think the mass surveillance you couldn't imagine didn't already exist for decades. It only just became so obvious that retards can see it, which should be taken as evidence the system is becoming more incompetent. If anti-AI people were consistent about AI having garbage output, surveillance would be less effective using it not more (not necessarily less dangerous because of the false positives).

>>109925557
>You are the retard if you think the mass surveillance you couldn't imagine didn't already exist for decades.
where did i say this? my point is that it's getting even worse (somehow)
>If anti-AI people were consistent about AI having garbage output, surveillance would be less effective using it not more
you don't even need to care about the output, simply what people are putting into it. turns out all you needed to have people give up absolutely every tidbit of information about themselves is a sycophantic chatbot

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>>109918240
>automatic programming
>simple assistant
>user guided synthesis
>knowledge based editor
Essentially Autolith. Really makes you think.
https://autolith.rocks

>>109871463
It's trash. Please keep that shit out the lisp community

>>109925584
>my point is that it's getting even worse (somehow)
It's getting more obvious, which is bad if you actually want to surveil people effectively. Internet surveillance worked because it was unnoticable (to normalfags) and it was more convenient to use spying services that "just werk" over the alternatives. That is becoming less and less true each day it seems. Asking for ID to use an online service is pants-on-head retarded if you actually wanted to spy on people. It's just emboldened boomer politicians pushing that.
>>109925584
>all you needed to have people give up absolutely every tidbit of information about themselves
Smartphones and social media.

>>109925694
Now you convinced me to learn Hoon. Thanks.

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Yarvin is not exactly a Lisp enthusiast.

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>>109925976

(defmethod add2 ((a number) (b number))
  (cl:+ a b))

(defmethod add2 ((a myclass) b)
  (lift #'cl:+ a b))

(defmethod add2 (a (b myclass))
  (lift #'cl:+ a b))

In haskell I can just lift stuff....

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>>109923881
>vibemacs

>>109924929
>retards blindly accept anything it shits out because their monkey brains turn off when they see words that feel vaguely like a human typed them.
This is so dangerous when jews are in control and molding the narrative they want.

>>109924546
SICP?

>>109924546
>>109930373
https://sarabander.github.io/sicp/

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https://con.racket-lang.org/
October 3-4, 2026
Oakland, California, USA
Oakstop, Broadway Gallery Suite

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Have any of you capable gentlemen have any idea on how to expose binaries to the steam sandbox in Guix?
I'm trying to use gamemoderun, which is just in the usual /run/current-system/profile/bin/gamemoderun path but since Steam is sandboxed (because it needs an emulated FHS I suppose?) it can't see it. As a matter of fact it can't see anything since it's sandboxed.
If you set PATH inside the emulated FHS (debug=1 steam, export then fhs-internal) it still won't run, and I'm not really sure why.
I tried adding /run/current-system/profile/bin/ to GUIX_SANDBOX_EXTRA_SHARES but it didn't work.
The error is also just /bin/sh: line 1: gamemoderun: command not found, nothing special.
At this point I'm pretty close to giving up on native steam and just use the flatpak, I hope someone came up with a way to at least make flatpak installations declarative.

Man this thread is fucking shit, what the fuck is all this discussion about goon and urbit doing when it could’ve been posts about Lisp
The Kabbalah and magic posting was unironically better than this shit

eval-print-last-sexp

>>109932018
It's because Urbit threads rarely last for long, so they have to latch onto something else. Yarvin doesn't even like Lisp (>>109925976, >>109925988).

>>109932232
And that's because urbit is the most retarded sub-0 IQ schizo retardation the world has ever seen.

>>109932232
Yeah which is why it’s fucking stupid we have an urbit pic for the lisp general, it would be better to just make a fresh one completely

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>>109932018
>>109932232
Urbit is a Lisp. Now seethe more so I can enjoy your meltdown more.

Can someone tell me why clojure has

:keyword

when

'keyword

would suffice? I bet symbols are interned as well so they could easily be used as cheap dictionary keys... what am I missing?

>>109932280
Feel free to GTFO. We don't need whiny plebbitors such (You)rself here.

>>109932350
now that I hit send I'm hit with the feeling that I'm very obviously stupid, I just don't know how

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>>109932262
It's by design. The language is obfuscatory on purpose. Yarvin himself admits that he couldn't be bothered to learn a language like that if it were made by someone else.

>>109932360
Talk about yourself, "mencius" cringelord.

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>>109890943
>>109932360
Redditors discuss Lisp, at least. Although the Reddit website is so enshittified these days that for the sake of one's own sanity, one should probably use Redlib instead (pic related).

>>109932476
Good to know. Now go back.

>>109932360
Urbitniggers arrived what, yesterday? Nobody wants you here, go make another thread.

>>109932476
Not really. Lisp and programminglanguages were taken over by troons and the only thing they talk about is troon shit 24/7

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>>109932524
Lispers should stick together. There are few enough of us as it is.

There are also some Lisp threads on lainchan's /λ/ board.

Urbit won. I manifested (hyperstitioned) this.

>>109932350
>>109932363
they are useful for semantic differences (symbols typically reference another value, whereas keywords represent themselves), but also for use in contexts where you want to represent "things" using either symbols or keywords and want to add meta-information using the other. that's a mouthful, but a good example is Clojure's destructuring syntax:

(fn
  [{::keys
    [some-variable some-other-variable]

    yet-another-variable :at-some-key}]
  ...)

imagine you only had symbols and wanted to represent something similar to `::keys`, how would you?

>>109931368
>I tried adding /run/current-system/profile/bin/ to GUIX_SANDBOX_EXTRA_SHARES but it didn't work.
Maybe you need to add your /gnu/store too? These paths are just symlinks pointing to the /gnu/store.
In my system:

$ ls -la /run/current-system/profile/bin/bash
lrwxrwxrwx 1 guix-daemon guix-daemon 64 Dec 31  1969 /run/current-system/profile/bin/bash -> /gnu/store/vhkg4avy9zf0kj70dcsmfpymnllkjq1y-bash-5.2.37/bin/bash

>>109932232
>Yarvin doesn't even like Lisp
yarvin can succ my deek

>>109930681
Racketchads eating good lately

>>109932667
An interesting part of a picture is that you don't need to press the Shift key when typing parentheses.

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>>109932294
>>109932360
>>109932524
Urbitkikes acting like the kikes they are. No surprise since their master is (((Curtis Yarvin))).

By the way, he murdered his wife so he could have an open affair with Peter Thiel's troon groupie pictured here.

A fag, a jew, and a glownigger. Yeah, I'll take his technical advice very seriously. I'm sure he has our best interests at heart.

>>109935898
>le kikes
Nigger, you're posting in the (((Lisp))) thread.

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>>109936052
Time to deport all goycattle to their inferior goylangs.

>>109936052
Make your own urbit thread, kike. As >>109925988 and >>109925976 pointed out, your master doesn't even like lisp nor understand it.

Typical kike tactics btw
>Hello fellow lispers
>No this thread is about urbit actually
>Why do you blame (((us)))?

>Urbit
>Feudalism but online
Why would I want to be a digital peasant? Lol

>>109932360
>Feel free to GTFO. We don't need whiny plebbitors such (You)rself here.
This is the Lisp thread. You fuck off, Urbit faggot

>>109932591
>Lisp and programminglanguages were taken over by troons
Someone on the Lisp discord mentioned that literally all of the admins are troons lol

>>109936107
>Someone on the Lisp discord
>shitcord
You are not different from the plebbitors. Go back.

>plebbitors
>shitcord troons
So these are the faggots seething about Urbit here. Good to know.

If you don't own a star (fka a cruiser) then gtfo poorfags/latefags.
Lisp and the shit urbit is built from don't have much in common, go lurk in a more pure FP general. Moldbug presented at LambdaConf, not StrangeLoop (or ELS).

>>109936178
Killyourself moldy retard

>>109934553
I'm not really sure why it wouldn't work with a symlink but I tried with the real path (on both PATH and GUIX_SANDBOX_EXTRA_SHARES and it still doesn't work.

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>>109936819
Seems that some people manage to get it working, though.

>>109937036
Those people are not retarded like me and your screenshot doesn't show it working either...

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>>109936178
>Moldbug presented at LambdaConf
And yet he hates lambda calculus.

>>109936052
I'll stop using Lisp when all those kikes who hate Germans stop using cars, aspirin, and printing presses.

João Tavora finally 'fixes' eglot by creating RassumFrassum. Finally I can stop using lsp mode.

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>lust provoking image
>relevant questions
Lisp threads are always the best threads.

>>109937379
>lust provoking image
Yeah Yarvin is quite handsome. >>109872190
>>109892070

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C++ templates vs. Lisp macros

>>109938348
Dude, it's 2026 already, almost 2027. If you're still stuck on discussions like that you're ngmi

>>109938348
That has no business being a macro

>>109938348
Did a retarded AI make this image?

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>>109938348
>C++

I wish I could understand lisp but alas there are too many parens for me to read and setting up and learning paredit is a pain in the ass. Will I die without ever reaching the lisp flow state?

>>109932667
lain is so fucking dead though.
https://board-v2.manoel.dev/lambda/ unironically has more life in it, but just barely.

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>>109940934
>Did a retarded AI make this image?
It's obviously made by a human, since there are no missing or extra parentheses.

>>109939645
>Dude, it's 2026 already, almost 2027.
It's 2026, almost 2027, and that is the state of the art of retarded AI (>>109795948, >>109911768).

PSA: There's a minor fork of pdf-tools that has a lot of bug fixes merged in. This came into being, because the maintainer for the official package has been unresponsive.
https://github.com/vedang/pdf-tools/issues/372
https://github.com/alberti42/fork-pdf-tools/tree/merged

>>109885774
Hoon feels like such a larp. Inven

>>109873191
>gliver
I am tired of compositors that just take another compositor (river in this case) and slap Scheme on top of it. We can do better as Schemers and write our own compositor from scratch. This was the same reason why I felt ashamed of dwl-guile

>>109917468
I figure Common Lisp is more slopped because the concept of it attracts a bunch of midwits that don't really use it all that much, and Lisp = "AI" language. If you actually understood the power of CL you'd know LLMs are redundant and a waste of time.

>>109920427
>I don't understand why people let '''agents''' commit with their name
The same way you let ""compilers"" generate the machine code. I really don't remember the last time I had to open Hexl or use asm-mode to find something I needed. It just works.
Also, LLMs got pretty good at Lisp.

>>109944297
>The same way you let ""compilers"" generate the machine code.
Not remotely equivalent.

>>109942095
>paredit
I don't use it. All you need is something that highlights matching parens. Emacs should do it by default

>>109944297
your git projects have
> compiled by gcc
commits? are you dense?

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>>109945399
My git commits have
>Co-Authored-By: Claude Opus 5.5 (1M context) <noreply@anthropic.com>
I'm not getting your point here...

>>109945814
yeah, why? It is not a 'it', it is an API.

>>109944297
>LLMs got pretty good at Lisp.
They didn't, though. If the latest models still struggle with something so basic as
>correct number of parentheses
then how many other errors do you think they are silently inserting into your code? Errors that go undetected because there isn't a tool like >>109942908 for detecting them.

>>109945814
vibeslop?

>>109944083
>If you actually understood the power of CL you'd know LLMs are redundant and a waste of time
Deboonked by Autolith

>>109946178
It's super trivial to have the LLM write and run tests, which discover any trivial errors and fix them. There's lots of lisper old heads making use of LLMs, it's not just newfags who've never really written lisp before.
I'm confident Claude's code is better than what you would write.

>>109944297
which compiler requires sending all your data to jewish data harvesting companies on top of a monthly subscription again?

>>109949659
>It's super trivial to have the LLM write and run tests, which discover any trivial errors and fix them.
But why is it even making trivial errors in the first place? And what about errors that are not so trivial and go undetected by the test suite? It probably makes a lot of those, too.
>I'm confident Claude's code is better than what you would write.
But is it better than code that you would write? I am pretty confident you don't make mistakes that are that trivial, whatever your skill level is.

>>109949661
You know you can run AI for free, right?
https://llm-stats.com/leaderboards/open-llm-leaderboard

>hur, but it's expensive to buy a GPU to run locally
Yeah, compiling big programs such as chromium and firefox also requires expensive hardware.

>>109950133
the usual dishonest cloudcuck argument
yes saar i'm going to spend 7k so i can have enough vram and speed to get a complete retard text generator to waste my time

>>109950150
>a complete retard text generator to waste my time
What do you do for a living? I guess you work with webshit, LLMs are perfect for that. Actually, even people working on different domains are leveraging AI. But apparently, you're too smart for that, right? Tell me, what do you work with that's so complex an LLM can't help you?

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>>109950133
>local llm

>>109950176
>moving the goalpost
you haven't made a compelling argument why i should use it in the face of >>109949661

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>>109950200
>moving the goalpost
No, you're the one doing that.
>you haven't made a compelling argument why i should use it in the face of >>109949661
Yes, I already did: >>109950133
You're not required to send all your data to jewish data harvesting companies on top of a monthly subscription. You can run pretty good models for free without phoning back home and without having to pay monthly subscription. There are free models performing better than closed models: https://llm-stats.com/leaderboards/open-llm-leaderboard

Just pick Deepseek, Kimi or GLM and you will be fine. No subscriptions, no fees, no data harvesting. Just you and your machine.

>>109950257
>just pick the models that require 10k+ in hardware to run at an acceptable quant and speed
i can compile chrome and firefox on my 10 year old stinkpad by the way

>No subscriptions, no fees, no data harvesting. Just you and your machine.
oh nevermind i'm talking to a bot

>>109950257
>No subscriptions, no fees, no data harvesting. Just you and your machine.
Bros either copy pasting from an LLM or has co-opted their way of speaking. Not sure which is worse. Argument against using them right here

>>109950257
A machine capable of running kimi k3 well is deep into the 6 figures

>>109950334
>>109950272
I'm ESL as you can see, so it's only natural that I would use an LLM to translate what I'm trying to say.
>>109950364
Yeah, but the other faggot asked for something that doesn't require subscriptions or data harvest. He didn't complained about prices.

>>109950380
>I'm ESL as you can see
that's a given considering you're an AI jeet

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>>109950257
>No subscriptions, no fees, no data harvesting.
>Just you and your machine.
"Honesty is the product."

>>109913358
>Can someone vibeslop up an eMacs packet for viewing nitter threads in org-mode, bitte-please??
Can someone spend money out of their own pocket on tokens for me, please?

Thirding the posts saying this thread has turned to shit. Now we’re at unironic chatting to bots and like zero lisp posts. Hoping future generals are better rather than this being a sign of the future.

>>109952440
>n-noooo don't talk about AI in the general dedicated to the programming language which was created for AI by the guy who coined the term AI reeeee

>>109940934
So anyone like...make anything recently or?

>>109952681
still trying to design my clojure syntax scripting language
no idea how to add debug info

>>109952564
You're absolutely right!

>>109949659
It's exclusively newfags and nocoders. You can coast as a nocoder for decades, in fact most of the industry rejects competent programmers in favor of nocoders because it's all about politics and nepotism since the dudebro financefag mba's took over ages ago.
We have been trying to hire people for a senior dev position, we interview people with 10-15 yoe that can't fizzbuzz their way out of a paperbag. The only person we interviewed who was OK (strong junior, but not quite senior level) didn't use AI (and even lied about it because he feared he'd be dismissed for not using AI enough as this is the zeitgeist).

>>109953165
What total comp are you offering?
Joe Marshall has been shitting up the Planet Lisp feed since July because he like everyone else taking paying attention realized the models had finally gotten really good for Lisp. Anyone who was around in the comp.lang.lisp days is not a newfag.
At one company we got a lot of ex- or soon-to-be-ex- Microsofties with years of experience that would just suck and would often fail the technical portions of interviews. It would have been so nice to have today's models back then, could have replaced hundreds if not thousands of shitty engineers that somehow got in anyway.
You should give the junior the job. For non specialist roles we had good success with teams getting one or two interns for the summer and giving return offers to the good ones for the following summer after they graduated. Strong juniors train up quite easily if you actually bother to try to help them.

>>109953689
>comp.lang.lisp
feel old man...

>>109940934
it's from a video about C++
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7fGB-hjc2Gc

The reason why it's a macro in the first place is just that the code on the left was created as a proof of concept after someone accidentally discovered that you can abuse C++ template code to do arbitrary compile-time calculations much like in Lisp macros, just more convoluted.

UI, and making it generic across modules, is so fucking difficult

>>109956024
just make a local webserver and generate an HTML interface

>>109956053
nigga I'm way beyond that. I'm trying to make it so that deploying a UI for any backend is as trivial as possible.

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>>109956150
right now I have user-defined searching working with HoneySQL
still so many issues to work out. for example, setting up Postgres with query limits so that an attacker cannot waste computational resources/cause a DOS attack

>>109955828
I've had to deal with stuff in C++ that was entirely done in Cmake, make, templates and macros in the headers.

Absolutely disgusting.

>>109953689
We're offering a top 5% salary, with some flexibility higher (up to top 3%).

>>109952564
Talking about AI is not the same as actual botted posts you fucking idiot.

>>109958723
>t. bot

>>109956184
>HoneySQL
interesting

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Emacs Rejects AI Code, but Can It Stay That Way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCWWdcu8Wx8

life update: I gave up and started slopping, it's over

>>109924827
>I still don't use LLMs because cloud models are inherently invasive to privacy and I don't have the hardware to run open models locally.
I hate signing up for services that require a phone number. Fucking nosy jews.

>>109963490
you will notice a rapid descent into what can only be described as early onset dementia

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Remember the term "code smell" (Beck, Fowler, et al.)? AI-generated code smells of something, for sure. Like when every docstring reads like a salesman pitch...

>>109965305
>code smell
lulwut