>>109921317
to summarize, heres what you did:
you bought a van. you bought tools, like hammers, chisels, circular saws, bubble levels, spatulas, drills, etc etc

and now you bought it all, youre asking yourself
>what should i do with all this, now?

you need an idea. identify a niche, or a product you could sell
develop it
and then sell it

writing vidyaslop is my fallback.
maybe it could work for you too

I have bad or discouraging news for you. At least in my personal opinion/perspective.

I genuinely don't think it's possible to program without a purpose.
The programmers that are purposeless, substitute that with money, being paid to work on someone else's purpose.

If you're not employed to program, I think you need a reason to actually program.
Otherwise why would you do it. As in, at all.
Why learn? Why put your ass in the chair and type the keys? What is the end goal?
If the end goal is to learn, I don't think it's enough of a motivator. You need something real, like a program. A program that you want to use or make or both. A goal. A reason to learn, a targeted subject to learn, a reason to keep your ass in the chair, and a reward for doing so, that reward being, the software itself, the product of your efforts.

Without this I just don't think it's possible. You will lose focus, you will become overwhelmed with choice / directionless like you are now.

imo you need to figure out why you're getting into programming and if it's important enough to you, to carry you through the slog of learning and applying it. It's not fun, it's hardly rewarding, it's thankless and demoralizing, and there's a reason jobs pay such a high salary, because you have to otherwise people would not sacrifice their time for this kind of thing.

I am not trying to demotivate you, I am just trying to warn or guide you somewhat. I can't give you a handle to grab, you have to come up with one on your own and you need to want to reach for it daily.

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>>109921376
>Why learn? Why put your ass in the chair and type the keys? What is the end goal?
because it's fun

>>109921386
I think that's true for some programmers and that's great.

For me, I don't actually enjoy the act of programming itself, but there is no greater joy than knowing more than 50% of the tools I use every day were shaped in some way by myself. They work exactly how I want and meet my own bar of quality. That's satisfying. But truthfully I'd rather someone else do it, the only reason I do it is because nobody will make the software I want to use to the standard I demand. But I will. By me, for me.

Likewise with design. I don't like spending 3 days pacing in the hallway or discussing it with people, but I do like the "ah hah, that's an elegant solution" part.

>>109921317
Im not your guidance counselor.

>>109921317
You need a project that you care about. Or an employer to give you one and pay you to care about it.

It's just that simple.

>>109921317
maybe try actually building something thats not a to-do app

>>109921525
HARSH

Sorry but vague posting doesn't help. "Find something you like and do it" is a typical Reddit comment.

>>109921421
>I don't actually enjoy the act of programming itself
I'm seeing this more and more in the past 6 months on here and I'm pretty sure it's just a psyop, especially when people are doing OSDev and then suddenly just like "I never liked programming it's great that I can just ask claude to make an OS for me and pretend I did it" like there's no way you sat through 6 years of making your own OS if you hated doing it, I'm just not buying it

>>109921317
Dont worry at least you can be a vibeslopper now.

>>109922094
I'm not sure what to tell you. That's my experience.
I only got into programing out of necessity, to fix a problem I had in someone elses software after they replied with something like "prs welcomed".

I don't think this is atypical, I think this is common.
In most fields the best people of the field are reluctant to be in that field or do the work. They do the work because they have to. Pay isn't even a consideration. They, themselves, are forced to do it out of necessity for some reason. In my case, I have waited decades for software to improve. Who's doing it? I don't see it. It looks bad. My software isn't bad. I needed that. I depend on that, because I use my computer every day and I want it to work. Me, I want it to work. Me, I make it work.

The reason you're seeing an uptick in conversation about it is likely because of AI.
I'm also enthusiastic. I evaluate every model that comes out hoping that one can assist me to the standard I demand. And it inches closer all the time.
You may or may not realize the power of leverage that gives an individual.
Remember how I was talking about me and all my work.
Imagine if I had a team of clones that didn't need to be paid or sleep. I may actually be able to finish my todo list in my lifetime. Like actually. That may actually be a real thing I can accomplish in a relatively short amount of time. And I'll be able to run it on my computer in my own house for the cost of a GPU and electricity. And the entire economy is funneling money into power, so it might get more economical than it already is.

It's exciting. So I understand why people would talk about it. I am too but we're not there yet.
It's useful for sure, and does give me something akin to a personal junior to task. But it's just bad enough to be questionable in if it's adding value or wasting my time. That's a critical fault if my metric for success is having it save me time / effort.
Maybe that explains some.

>>109922147
>>109922094
I forgot something important.

>like there's no way you sat through 6 years of making your own OS if you hated doing it
Absolutely you would, if you wanted an OS. Who else is going to do it for you?

Personally, I've been programming daily for over a decade. One of my long term projects has taken roughly the same span and is a significant OS component. I hate working on it. I have to force myself to. The results will be worth it.
But I bet most carpenters like living in houses more than they like constructing them.

>>109922106
And maybe if you are lucky you can someday become bosnian too.

>>109922163
>Absolutely you would, if you wanted an OS.
I'm asserting that if you really hated, like HATED programming, the act of typing out code, like I'm seeing all these posts about lately, there's no way in hell that "wanting an OS" would trump that. Like sitting through 6 years of absolutely SEETHING with every line of code you're typing in absolute rage, hating every moment of it, I just can't bring myself to convince that you're telling the truth.

>>109922194
I don't know how you would find them, but try to find a radical fanatic.
The torture and suffering of the sacrifice is sometimes lesser than the pain of not having.
People make analogies like this:
>Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor

Some injustices demand a martyr.
Some things are worth more than petty discomfort.

I stand a chance to improve my life, and the lives of the entire world, for free, forever.
When I was young the idea of publishing something to the entire country was out of sight.
Today I can push software to GitHub and in nanoseconds the entire world can level up their entire life.
So no matter if you look at it through a selfish or selfless lens, it feels like the natural inclination.
If I do this, once I'm done, it's done, and life will be better at least for myself. It will be worth the try. To strike back at how terrible the status quo on my way falling down. Why not.

Sorry that this deviated into philosophical, but so it is I guess.

>>109922230
>The torture and suffering of the sacrifice is sometimes lesser than the pain of not having.
I'll link this to what I said earlier
>>109922147
>I depend on that, because I use my computer every day and I want it to work. Me, I want it to work. Me, I make it work.

You and I probably both know the frustration of using a computer and having something not work and it's not even your fault. It's the software.
EVERY. DAY. FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE NOW.
Unless someone does something about it.
I would have to suffer with broken software EVERY DAY if I didn't know how to fix it. That's so much worse. It all stacks up. It's unbearable and makes you want to kill. (Not people - just in emotion.)
I want to eradicate bad software no matter what it takes. And I wish people would join and help me.

>>109922258
>broken software
And more recently, predatory.
Please pay $5 a month to access volume above 20% :) oopsie whoopsie fucky wucky*

*fucky wucky is a trademark of xyz

God it's so fucking bad.

>>109922230
>I don't know how you would find them, but try to find a radical fanatic.
But that's the point, i'm seeing the claim EVERYWHERE, not just from rare, one-off "radical fanatics"
Apparently everyone who has worked on any personal programming project for the past 30 years was lying about enjoying any of it, and is now thrilled to have the computer do it for them and be an "ideas guy"

>>109922359
I have quite a bit of experience working with people both personally and professional and I rarely see people say they enjoy programming. Maybe in a broad sense, or maybe they enjoy it as a career, but the act of coding itself I strongly doubt. Unless they say that explicitly when asked about it directly, I don't automatically assume that they enjoy doing the work more than they enjoy everything else that surrounds the work like the yield of their work, or their salary, or their co workers, or travel accommodations to speak at events. But not programming-programming, that's not implied imo, at least not with the people I interact with. It seems as though its just another job or task.

This may also be a case of observation bias on your end idk. You're focused on it so you see and remember it, and this is during a point where people are both organically excited and that's mixed in with marketing hype. I don't think any of that nullifies the principle of what I'm saying.
Loudness doesn't matter either. Radicals may still be the minority, a 1% of programmers. But that doesn't stop them from posting about it online and having millions of people hype that up and repost it. Or having the same people talk about it every day, etc.


Consider this also.
If the point of these things is to save time and maximize leverage. Programmers now have lots of minutes inbetween responses/results to dick around on the internet than they did before.
This is the equivalent of working on a C++ project and the compilation takes an hour where you can't make progress on it.

>>109922416
>I have quite a bit of experience working with people both personally and professional and I rarely see people say they enjoy programming. Maybe in a broad sense, or maybe they enjoy it as a career, but the act of coding itself I strongly doubt.
Which makes it all the more baffling when it comes to OSDev people, because I just can't bring myself to understand what you would get out of spending half a decade building your own OS, if the only thing you really wanted in the end is to ask Claude for it. Like, working through the issues, typing out the functions, figuring out what works, what doesn't, exercising your brain... if you hated every moment of that, I just am not making the connection here of what would motivate you. Is having your own OS really that much of a motivator to put yourself through that? I can think of about 100 other things that you could do that would be more enjoyable if you really hated programming.

>>109922454
The product. The result.
The ends not the means.
The software.

To me it only makes sense that you would learn how to make an OS if you wanted and OS.
You learn how to cook when you want to be able to eat good anytime you want to. It's not feasible for me to hire a personal chef, and he doesn't know my taste regardless.

Claude can, and Claude costs cents.
A programmer costs six figures and you need more than 1 and you can't trust them to not just vampire you for money until you go bankrupt.

AI is the equivalent of a printer for programmers. Paper or 3D. It's a materialize.
Computer, generate the thing I want.
When that becomes the case, I no longer have to toil myself to realize and materialize what is objectively the same machine code.

You should be able to connect the fact that "hated every moment of it" and "no longer have to do this anymore".
Imagine cars were invented and you didn't have to walk to get to the places you wanted to get to.
Imagine how many more people would travel and travel farther. It's the same thing, different avenue.

It's not like those years were wasted just because the skill is slightly less unique or valuable or whatever now.
When you needed to do that, you did that, now you don't, so you don't.
I use an automatic washing machine, not a washboard and hands.

>>109922503
>It's not like those years were wasted just because the skill is slightly less unique or valuable or whatever now.
Important detail.

None of us had a crystal ball either.
AI in my lifetime? yeah right.
But here we are now. I guess we won the lottery and never expected to. That explains at least some of the amount of people yelling "yippie!".

>>109922503
>To me it only makes sense that you would learn how to make an OS if you wanted and OS.
idk it's not adding up. It makes no sense. There's plenty of OSes out there. I wouldn't spend a decade learning about building cars to build my own car if I hated building cars, working on cars, troubleshooting fluid leaks, etc. it's just something's not right here

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>>109921317
Use ai, it will improve your life

>>109922608
I hate to be so blunt and rude about this but you're really demoralizing. It's like you're looking for ways to avoid work when you're not even the one doing it. Like a crab in a bucket. It's so repulsive I don't want to talk anymore. I could have been programming instead of wasting time on this. And I hate programming.

There was never a time I was not fascinated by robots.

>>109921317
>All I know is how to double-click the executable to launch it. I don’t know anything beyond that.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/debug/pe-format
>I don’t know what I'm supposed to learn either
https://github.com/codecrafters-io/build-your-own-x
unironically install gentoo

>>109922637
>It's like you're looking for ways to avoid work
I honestly don't know how you interpreted that out of anything that I've been saying. My point is, there's a very vocal selection of people, well accomplished programmers, that sunk a lot of time into building really cool things, that are now claiming that they NEVER enjoyed programming and it's great that Claude can do it all for them, and they can take the credit. If they said "I did programming for 10 years and I'm sick of it" then THAT would be a legitimate take, but to claim that they NEVER enjoyed ANY of it at all, the process, learning, developing, etc. I just... it's so divorced from reality and how people have always worked that I must be missing some colossal joke here.

>>109922678
Like I said, you're reaching into other people's minds to find a reason to be negative.

>>109922688
It isn't negative though, it's saying up is down, left is right, it's emperor's new clothes shit. That's why I said it has to be a psyop, I don't know where you're getting "negative" from.

>>109922704
...
You don't know where I'm getting negative from.
But my stance is clearly and affirmatively positive.
And you're saying that everything is the opposite.

Where I see prosperity you see a psyop.
I guess if you work for the CIA you would say psyop positively... but typically that's a negative impression.

Forgive my sudden lack of patience. It's unrelated to you. There is an issue on me suddenly.

>>109922726
>But my stance is clearly and affirmatively positive.
>And you're saying that everything is the opposite.
I wasn't referring to you, specifically. I'm not doubting that you or anyone else can have positive experiences with Claude, I'm specifically referring to those well-known, accomplished individuals who are now attempting to retcon ever enjoying anything about programming as a means to an end, all of a sudden, in what appears to be a coordinated effort. Like I said, I can understand the "I did that when I was younger but I'm sick of it now let the clanker do it" attitude, or even someone young doing some fantasy OS what could have been on a 8088 or whatever, but for the accomplished ones to claim they never enjoyed any of it, I don't think I'll ever be convinced.

>>109922664
>unironically install gentoo

Unironically, I believe Linux is a waste of time

>>109922627
Unironically, AI made me dumber

>>109921573
I've built an ascii tetris game, a console app, with c++

>>109921317
>For example, I download a game, and its files are just sitting on my computer. All I know is how to double-click the executable to launch it. I don’t know anything beyond that. How can I do more?
you've kinda got your answer right here, right? look into how installers are built, how files are signed, etc