>>109940869
if you were programming in c i could help you
IF we get a normal /dpt/ thread.

when is mai/dpt/ you can fucking forget about that general

>>109940945
The only reason why that version of the thread exist because everyone that's employed has to use AI and tranny schizos that can't code are the only things that's left

>>109940869
also dont be fucking retarded
the learning part alone is hard enough
and shatbots dont have solutions to all the quetions anyways

as long as you use them to bulid up your knowledge as opposed to using them as a stand in for competency, you'll be fine

>>109940964
nah, the only reason that version of the thread exists is because theres a retarded autismo
probably a trany
who doesnt want to take his meds

>the eployim
they might as well not exist. their job is to churn out as much code as possible in as little time as possible
dpt is about craftsmanship, not motherfucking corposlop

>>109940869
AI's only use case is an advanced search engine so you might as well give in. The internet has been flooded with trash by AI on purpose so you have to use it to find anything you're looking for. That's the whole point.

The internet is dead, digital hobbies and interests are fake and gay. Programming doesn't exist. Best comes to terms with it now and find something you enjoy doing physically IRL.

>>109941006
>just give up
fuck you
i getting to the top
or ill die trying
ffffaggot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-qkY2yj4_A

>>109940869
>I DON'T WANT TO USE AI
Kill yourself.

>>109941115
AI isn't all bad but it makes me feel like my brain is atrophying

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>>109941221
Just don't let it do the job for you then, LEARNING with AI is infinitely better than reading textbooks because it will fully cater to you personally until you absorb everything.

>>109940869
Maybe you should have been born with all of the world's knowledge then. You ever thought about that?

>>109941006
problem is that the ai you use will use references written by other ai's and the quality of information is quickly turning to shit. you can't trust any of it and it's always out of date

>>109941253
just a couple weeks ago i watched my friends' nephew try to use a can opener and failed. he made some holes at least unlike that clip. he's 19

>>109940869
Don't cripple yourself from using tools you consider useful because you get FUDed by the crabs in the bucket.

>>109940869
Use it as a search engine. Just don't use it to generate stuff for you.

Use ai as an interactive tutorial. System design and architecture is the most difficult part so write a detailed sdd to give to the agent, and cooperatively code with ot rather than having it one shot. Ai just is a better search engine l and before ai people used stackoverflow the same way. Pajeets copy pasting didnt learn you need to understand the code

>>109941474
eh, minimal working examples are ok in my book
so that you hit the ground running, plus i fucking hate going through manuals

>>109941505
Sure why not. If some of that code is pasted into the source it should be marked/commented as such.

>>109941539
its a minimal working example though
these things are never supposed to remain in public facing code
because its the minimum
one's project is supposed to be more elaborate than the equivalent of a hello world, especially when created for public consumption, no?

i use minimal working examples to have a starting point
then i go through the thing line by line, prompt the shatbot to explain everything to me
i reprompt until i understand everything
llms are exceedingly good for that stage because as a noob you wont know the nomenclature, and you can impose a verbage to the llm, so it will explain things to you in your language

and then you go from there
once you understand the why and how of the minimum working example, you de facto know the basics, and can go on to do what you actually wanted

also pro self taught tip:
always prompt the shatbot for standard solutions used by the industry at large
and prompt it to evaluate your solutions against said industry standards

but beware not to feed it too revolutionary ideas
even though with the napier stoeks or whatever millenium problem this should be common knowledge that your prompts WILL be used in future training

>>109941707
all good advice

>>109941539
i think its worth mentioning that what happens
is that by prompting the shatbot for a minimum working example, you automatically select for the basic knowledge to accomplish a certain task
i think its its kinda elegant because you use the topology of knowledge itself to do computation for you

its not earth shattering but im happy with myself for having thought that up
i mean, identifying the underlying phenomenon, i didnt start with the grandiose idea of using how knowledge itself is organized to cut down on tokens, im not THAT smart

>>109941776
thanks. its what i figured out from interacting with the thing
it can be leveraged. not necessarily in the way its advertised, but llms are still technology, and we can extract value from it

>>109941791
my closest encounter with vibe coding was when I was building the Live Rooms feature for Fuze Mediaboard. I got spooked when I noticed I was becoming detached from the code, not knowing what it did. I later refactored most of the code except some Ai generated boilerplate remains, and I more or less understand how webrtc works now.

>>109941253
holy monkey brain

>>109941853
i could do vibecoding
the pro tip in vibecoding is to turn a generation problem into a translation one
instead of having the shatbot generate shit from scratch, you feed it pseudocode
so instead of having to generate shit, it only translates
youll burn a fraction of tokens you would otherwise, and your code is gonna be much much more solid
i also have a couple other tricks, but ill keep these for myself. this is powerful enough already

but i also write implementations of stuff that goes faster than what academia came up with
and i didnt hear that llms can beat canonical implementations of stuff that goes fast

and thats why i dont entrust code to llms. bc i know i can do better. and i kinda need it, im running a compute project on a mid consumer machine. but thats already more than what the best had at their disposal 30 years ago, so i think these are realistic odds, but i digress

i was saying quality
but theres also copyright.
i dont wanna be feeding my ideas to the shatbot without receiving something in return
which i did, and it works for me
i provide engaging prompts to openai, and in return i get to play with their experimental models while in free tier. also bc of free tier, they wont be testing stuff on their paying customers

>>109941853
>also bc of free tier, they wont be testing stuff on their paying customers
yeah. like a varient of astra. yesterday

you know how i know its astra?
because the other day an anon saw all his allotment of tokens burn on prompting teh shatbot the following prompt
>"hello"

and he was using astra
so its something that happenned to me too but a couple months ago
burned through everything on one simple question
i theorize that the model goes through all your past interactions and creates a map
probably agentic style so analysis of the tokens it just produced

description elicits a reaction, which creates another description, which elicits another reaction, etc
and with huge interaction histories probably what happens is that an expensive "getting to know you" burns through everything, exponentially, based in the amount of past interactions
and ive been using the thing since 2023 lmao
and so yesterday the thing just fucking hung
stopped it, tried later, but apparently no, thats just their newest model
it just fucking bruteforces everything

today im back with the usual one
i think its the second best
it cant be that its streamlined astra, its the model ive been interfacing with already 6 mos ago

>>109941909
i enjoy coding but dont enjoy looking up how to use a library, or planning along security/architecture best practises, so now I only use AI for the latter.
if i take it to the extreme i end up “reverse vibe coding”- that is, the AI gives me the specification and i turn it into code.

>>109940978
>as long as you use them to bulid up your knowledge as opposed to using them as a stand in for competency, you'll be fine
Please elaborate.

>>109942062
>“reverse vibe coding”- that is, the AI gives me the specification and i turn it into code.
i call it ping-ponging but i do it too
i have an idea
i run it through the chatbot
second pair of eyes kinda deal

i also reinforced its role as such
sometimes its even "overzealous" but you should still reinforce that type of behaviour
its a fucking machine, you dont need to make it understand, you need it to do a semantic analysis on what youre prompting
kinda like a compiler doing type checks, but more abstract
and you want to reinforce the specific type of behaviour taht suits you best

i mkultra'd my instance to be a copilot. no de-humanization, big emphasis on concepts that are missing from the discussion
always provide me with adversarial analysis, but i prompt it for it anyways

its when you see adversarial analysis done out of the blue, sometimes when it even doesnt make sense, that you know you configured it right lmao

>>109941006
What exactly happens into the future? I've got plenty of things I enjoy in real life physically and plan to expand into my own professional businesses, at the very least join the fuckin military and get double what I'm paid now. But I got a good set up going for me, I'd like to make money programming on the side but that seems to be impossible at this point. Programming is still fun for me so I mean, I guess there's still that. AI copilot is useful sometimes but usually only for a search engine and it tries to take control way too fucking much and nigger shit all up

>>109940869
>I REFUSE TO USE MODERN TECHNOLOGY
Then you shouldn't work in IT

>>109941024
Getting to the top of a dead profession shouldn't be very hard

>>109942067
dont ever generate prod code
but prompt for minimum working examples and then prompt explanartions
an llm doesnt have patience, its a machine
you can prompt it for a week about printf and it will enthusiastically "do its best" to answer your query

thats powerful. thats a force multiplier but in accruing your base power lets say. the base value that gets through the force multuiplier computation

what you cannot do is to delegate things you cannot do to the llm. yes, technically when youre learning you cant do what youre currently learning but what i mean is that you CANNOT think like
>"meh, fuck opengl, ill let the llm take care of that"
not for moral reasons, because then youre not learning
the value provided to you, its fleeting, and youre gonna have to invest again to get the same
thats how they get you hooked. and again, thats how you learn nothing, so you cant do the whole pseudocode shtick where you cut your token usage by 10

dont delegate
use the llms as a next gen google search

>>109942194
i prefer to delegate shit i can't do or won't do to llms so i can use my time on better things, like posting, chatting, or vidya. i've shipped llm-written prod code a while now, and there have been hardly any issues. when there was a problem, i just have llms fix it. 200K to prompt and chill lol

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>>109942226
i use programming as an actual tool, anon.
not as a ticket to adult daycare

also: fun fact
>the profession is dying
no, YOUR profession is dying (grifters)

>>109942269
>not as a ticket to adult daycare
cope. i wfh.

>>109942293
you still get 1c on each dollar you earn
how is that not fukken gay?

>>109942210
>t. doesnt even understand what im saying
I don't think you understand what you're saying at this point. Sober up buddy

>>109942293
>>109942296 cont
also exclusivity clauses etc

literal fucking adult daycare
they literally pay you so you dont become competition

its cheaper this way

>hurrr durr i get pampered
good for you. me, i want it all
if youre ok with 1c/dollar more power i guess

>>109942296
>you still get 1c on each dollar you earn
>if youre ok with 1c/dollar more power i guess
same retard?

>>109942327
>retard is when he does opencl, and you do react
whatever lets you sleep at night, wageslave

>>109942336
keep seething

>>109942269
What do you reccomend I do to get into the industry if I have no degree and no portfolio, not that I've never done anything I just literally have to start fresh. Is it worth reading books, taking time to do coding challenges, etc like in the past? Or should I jump right into creation of projects for a portfolio and start applying to jobs. I have a full time job on a farm and I may have a part time job at a gym soon, mainly just for extra money and the free membership, but in the meantime I really would prefer to get back into programming but only under the impression a) I'm learning about the deeper concepts and concepts that are relevant to the industry today and in the next 10-30 years, and b) Will I actually reach the ability to make money independently or at a company (part time or full time), without a degree? Otherwise I feel as though it's just a time consuming hobby for me... Hard to be motivated with bills, but I would like to work on things more on the forefront, or at least, useful practical software that is still useful today. Vibe coding is everywhere but I imagine there still has to be a need for something made properly right? Or, new tools, or even engineered things? Fuck I don't know, I'm young as fuck and trying to figure shit shit out before it's too late for me to. I spent like damn near half a decade working in a rock quarry and I totally was absent for the rise of LLMs the way they have in the past several years, apart from making like shitty Discord Javascript Bots which utilized some Google early form of these LLMs. I haven't really made any software or anything I'm proud of in years.

>>109942343
youre the retard, why would i seethe?

>>109942348
>What do you reccomend I do to get into the industry if I have no degree and no portfolio
i have no idea
i did my career in construction and now pivoted into fintech to finance my robotics-shit ideas.
yes, i will automate all of the wagies and theres nothing you can do about it
currently writing an ml powered stat engine to figure out finance for me bc im good at stats and programming but i only know the bare basics of finance

if that fails ill write vidyaslop, but i alr ran prototypes and results are promising

im really the last person in the world to ask how to get a job in it
like stated, i use programming as a tool
also of note is the fact that ive been programming since ages, digging ditches during the day, then programming in python at that time til 3 in the morning
these ideas dont come out of nowhere

>>109942348
actually
i read the rest
i think youre at the same starting point as i was several years ago

id say: find problems to solve
then solve them
then sell your solutions

i think its the way to go in the 21st cen because sooner or later all manual labor will be devaluated
all holdings that arent raw production capabilities (including tech) will be devaluated

eta 20-50 years
but thats indeed incoming
if you want to live decently in the future you need to produce tech
of any kind

>>109942375
Still, interesting and I don't mind advice. Maybe it's alright for me to just keep learning about it and doing shit on the side and keeping my day job. Robotics is interesting to me too but I've never touched anything but basic shitty robots which could hardly do more than detect colors and shit with basic sensors and that was done in Objective C, as for that idea... maybe it would be easiest to take the wagie jobs first which utilize only the most basic robotics to replace them. Thanks for the advice anon

>>109940869
You can currently thank god you still have the opportunity to work in tech
The problem is our god is Elon and his super rich friends

>>109942412
glad to be of help
thats just my take but i do think the future is either producing them robots, or at least being able to service them
right now we still have a shot to be amongst those who produce them.

>>109942431
*at being...
esl moment

>>109942375
i thank god every day i graduated with a CS degree and built a career starting right out of school, doing what i love, without needing to subject myself to manual labor or wageslaving.

>>109942457
we didnt play with the same hand of cards
i was getting ready for med school when pops decided that 18 years + 2 mos is old enough to gtfo and start working because he did his doctorate in art while working at a brewery

the biggest mistake of my life was to say "yes, father" instead of starting to cry and shit my pants.

>>109942210
lighten up, autist.

>>109940869
I haven't tried it yet but this seems pretty cool for self learning.

https://github.com/THU-MAIC/OpenMAIC

For example you basically tell it to make you a 7 day python course for you and it will. You need to install Lemonade-server for local AI use though, it's got to host a database. Anyhow, create your own Python (or C, rust, go, whatever) course with AI.

>>109944579
replying to myself
Here's their main website which may give you a better idea of what it is.
https://open.maic.chat/

>>109940869
>NO ONE HERE WANTS TO HELP
Nobody here ever was able to help. They were all just pretending to be knowledgeable.
Same with every other board on this website.

Using to learn things is one of the absolute best use cases, shut up and be happy
Figuring it out by yourself meant spending $ on books (which you should still do to some extent) but then getting fucked around on forums or treated like shit on StackExchange, and doing lots of trial and error in whatever field you are trying to be good at. You should do some of that but you can also waste an awful lot of time going down dead ends.
The main meta-skill you need is the curiosity to keep pulling on things and trying stuff out to see what happens even if this means frequently making a mess of things. Literally fuck around and find out.

>>109942464
>he did his doctorate in art while working at a brewery
once a loser always a loser

>>109942343
keep going to bed then, retard.