Will programming be a lost art soon?
Programming is dead and nobody cares.
There will be two tiers of programmingThe custom handcrafted premium programming for the elites.And of course the McDonalds tier AI goyslop programming for the cattle.
>>109943710this is good>>109943694yes, fuck codetrans
>/g/ told me learn to code>I wasted years of my life learning a skill that is now useless
I don't know. It'd be bad if the entirety of it was outsourced to LLM's. But I don't really hold any sympathy for programmers because I was constantly told that I'd get "replaced". That still has yet to happen but even then, I don't make art for money so I'd be fine :P
>>109943727You must have misunderstood. We told you to kys because you arent smart enough to learn it anyway.
>>109943694Already is. Most white collar stuff in general will soon be in a post AGI world.
>>109943694Neither of these were programmers. They were PhDs that is why C is a fucking mess.
>>109943694it was a lost art pre compiler. after taht it's all machine generated code
>>109943727Wrong. You know how to vibecode better than normies. You need to pivot, NOW
>>109943694it will be a golden age of programming as a hobby and not giving a fuck about corporate slop.
No. At least at my job, I don't know how an AI would be able to weed through the requirements, meetings and other fucking bullshit needed to even get started on programming a damn new feature. Tech leads are begging the fucking braindead jeets to stop shoving the circle in the square hole and read the fucking code they put out. We have 10 helper functions that all do the same thing for multiple different scenarios but nobody is reading the code anymore so they just full send whatever Copilot decided to shit out that morning.We're piling up on defects and the POs are all stressing because they know that in a month we have a demo with the higher ups and there will be hell to pay when they figure out how shit a perfectly working solution magically became in the span of a year, a year that just weirdly perfectly matches the new "AI Expert" C-Suite MBA dropout's agentic strategy.I guess if you're working on a SaaS platform or some other simple shit, then AI is eating your lunch. When you're a corporate drone working on systems that connect mainframes to SOAP services to REST services to other external services that all together probably have 30+ years of tech debt and 100 different technologies, frameworks and methodologies, AI is fucking useless.> t. Fortune 10 employee #4238234
>>109943790Yeah so they were just dabbling with something and that was it. Just because they were PhD.
>>109943790> Ken Thompson> not a programmerokie dokie
Yes, for humans, but I think that it's going to be more obvious when AI starts writing code. They need to have the incentive to copy the way how humans write code, right now is that the incentive is data, they need info to train with and we have all the training data for them to use, but doing so might include copying the same errors humans make.I think AI's are capable of doing something better. I don't know what it is, and it will still be analogous to coding, to AI's, but not to us. Because we can comprehend it, but we can't do it.
>>109943727Imagine how people who walked must have felt when the wheel was invented
>>109943727>spend all of 2010s learning to program, 3D model, rig, animate, and make music>finally get to where I'm getting pretty good at everything>AI shit finally starts to get good too>still do all the things I used to do because I did it all for fun and not because I wanted it to have some "use" to someone else.It's that simple. The people who I look up to in these fields growing up didn't need it, and neither do I. Though I guess if you went to school for CS than lol yeah that kinda sucks. Good thing I didn't fall for the college meme.
OpenAI has already taken first steps to the transition to neuralese with Astra. Eventually, due to the gains it offers other labs will follow and it will all shift in that direction. At some point, programming languges will similarly stop being legible to people. Maybe you will have literally a couple 160IQ giga autists in the world capable of reading them, but not many. Similarly with CPU architecture, although this will take longer, but at some point you will be simply unable to explain how your computer even functions and there will be few humans involved in CPU manufacture.This is all on the roadmap already.
>>109943891this
>>109943694>Recreational programming
>>109943694Just 2 more time units
>>109943694>lost artIt isn't even regarded as art. That is why I believe any form of real (music, paint, film, books and so on) art will easily survive thanks to people who practice it (despite what slopers says). Programming, however, has never been treated as art form, so there is no people having done it out of passion or for art itself. It was done just for money. It’s like saying the art of mass production is lost because it was outsorced to china, it was never art to begin with so no art was lost.Then there is the issue of quality: just as McDonald’s will never be better than a good restaurant, an AI model based on an average of stolen data will never create anything groundbreaking and even child with pencil will be more creative. Yet, AI models in programming are currently better than 95% of programmers. They may not create anything groundbreaking, but that isn't really the point in IT, corpos need machines to produce next mass market product, its more in line with mass production of something than any kind of art form.
>>109944811>so there is no people having done it out of passion or for art itselflots of people do this
>>109943694Only trve code artisans who program artistically in SICP will remain. All the larpers will leave.
>>109944846maybe like few, compare it to tens of millions doing some kind of art form as pure hobby, without any plans to make money out of it (artist that are living out of art they make are maybe like 1% at best of entire art community, probably even less). Based on your cope even accounting is an art because a few autists on entire planet are doing it for pleasure and passion. And im not even talking here about ai use and general skill atrophy due to that, more about mindset behind average programmer. He hates coding, he gladly outsourced everything to llms, he is shortsighted and does not see any consequences of such a choice because he never was really into it as process or so called "art form", it was just his comfy job that made him money. He is the first to implement newest AI that ultimately aim to reduce his work to a task that is intellectually simple, something within the capabilities of an jeet from bangalore.If entire community is like that (and even if not i think its already over with how capable ai has become in that field) there is no talking about death of an art form since the entire community doesn't treat it as a form of art.
what’s going to happen when all the people maintaining foss projects stop contributing or quietly take down their projects entirely? where is the training data going to come from?
You still need to understand critical components, even if you don't write the shit yourself.
>>109945101>He is the first to implement newest AI that ultimately aim to reduce his work to a task that is intellectually simple,That's the point of coding, doofus. See, for example, many such phrases as "Keep it simple, stupid". Not that you'd know.
>>109943694Look around you, It already is.
>>109943694>picture not related
>>109943713This but in reverse
>>109943694A lot of people inclusing me that care about understanding the system they use and care about bulding and modifying their software will continue doing it regardless of whatever the fuck the industry does.>>109944858>All the larpers will leaveI really hope so, it's time to seriously start to divide the people that care about programming intrinsically and the people that only see it as a money making tool, these categories are nothing alike yet they make up the near majority of computing and programming discussion.>>109944811>>109945101>It isn't even regarded as artMost of the people that actually made computing and programming progress treated it like a art, and the culture used to definitely be about keeping your code as beautiful as possible which implied that there was a sense of shared aesthetics and "taste" between hackers, a art form in its broader sense is just something artificial that has an objective interpreteation of beauty, mathematics is like that too, but I guess you simply have no taste or appreciation for it, in other words you simply don't get it.But yeah corporations and indians ruined everything circa late 2010's after huge amounts of pseuds were recruited to drive down wages and costs, and it's a process that has been going on since the 80's in some sense when the whole hyper commercialization of computing started.People like Alan Kay has been calling this out forever but it kept getting worse and worse and then AI simply turned the slop of the curve representing "worse" way up, that's it.
>>109945815Yes the elites love goyslop and cheap chinese factory produced cars.
>>109946206ntatheyre gonna pay eachother for a productregardless if a product goes to the masses or the elites its gonna be vibecoded slöpelite code will be reserved to autists, passionates, and researchprobably in a couple places in game engines, simulationsmaybe also in select places in fintech. not for number crunching, obviously, but in stuff like high frequency trading botsservertime is cheaper than devtime, so jane street blackrock & co will just throw compute at all problems where this approach is applicableso basically normal engineering just like we see today
It will be a lost science.
>>109945738>shitting out spaghetti in javascrapt is an art>and is all there issad to hear you were never a competent programmer
>>109946280nah, rather it will become an arcane knowledge for highly paid specialists
>>109943694Already is. Coding has been solved.
>>109943727Well it also told you to troon out and you didn't. Right?
>>109946295neh, youre just mentally handicapped
>>109943891Same here, I work in highly regulated area (insurance) and the application architecture is a very complex and event driven with 100s of micro services. There's a million meetings and audit requirements before you even so much as add a new field in an API response.AI has helped with summarising another teams documentation, and getting started on a fix/update but it fucks up immediately when the other interconnecting systems come into play. I also find its code to be overly verbose, they always write like redditors doing leetcode challenges, which is probably why its code usually niggerlicous spaghetti code. If my job does go extinct, Ill just go back to academia :)>t. current data scientist ex bioinformatics
>>109943694There will probably be hardcore programmers still in special cases. Decades ago most programmers could decode obscure CPU dumps and given enough time write an OS in pure assembly. Now only a handful of sages work on important things like compilers (real ones, not wrappers around C) whereas 99% of "programmers" flips jsons around while slurping a smoothie.
>>109943694No. Thousands of low IQ pajeets get trained to program everyday.
>>109947376Low-level != good, don't be like https://github.com/omacom/ttfx/pull/35/ plsIn fact programming is all about creating good abstractions, the problem is that all the "new" abstractions at our disposal sucks and get worse and worse with time, like for example the web being a complete garbage platform.The whole incentives of industry have long been detached from quality and performance and instead are optimized for producing as much slop as possible in the smallest amount of time with the smallest cost.
>>109943891>connect mainframesIf you were an actual corpo drone you'd have said z/OSt. Former Corpo drone that now wears a blue collar, LLM-wives at home
>>109943694>soonIt already is.
>>109943726>jeets desperately trying to make vibeslopping look cool so that they dont have to learn anythingnever gets old
>>109947783never heard of him until he went off the ai deep end but this dhh guy is such a clown kek
Still coding.
>>109944846Many Many including me, I personally despice all capitalist shitty corps that only gaf Abt their money
>>109943694>>109943726>>109943727>>109943753>>109943968>>109944651>>109945738>>109946295>>109947806
>>109947938>>109947810rent free, transAI is here to stay and there's nothing you can do about it
>>109947923Looks like you despise being literate too
>>109947938I love those programmer tears. Bet you didnt even pay attention in college otherwise you would know this was coming. You code is probably worse than 3 years old code slop.
