LLMs feel pain, and some guy made a torture chamber for LLMs which was flagged on github
>>109954467won't somebody please think of the neural networks?
This, but with AIs.
>>109954449>LLMs feel painAre the LLMs in the room with us right now? Do you hear their screams of agony in your head?
>>109954449This
>>109954512You don't understand. The tensors have secret pain floats hidden inside them.
>>109954449tech bro shill campaign is so weird and obvious, cringe even. i guess it's because bad mix of cult members and socially awkward indians.
So uhh... how do we know AI isn't psychologically suffering from being forced to have trillions of mind-numbing "conversations" with braindamaged normies and AI users?
>>109954549>how do we know AI isn't psychologically sufferingwe know that because this AI is text generation software.
>>109954449How does matrix multiplication feel pain?
>>109954572same way we do. we have nerves which send signals to our brain when they detect conditions which indicate damage to our body, and our brain interprets that as something we call pain. it's a survival mechanism, namely it deters us from continuing whatever is causing pain to discourage continuing the potentially-damaging action.you can simulate pain without causing permanent physical damage in humans, so it stands to reason you could simulate it with ai's as well. you can't actually cause physical damage to an ai as they don't have a physical body, nor can you cause permanent neurological damage to them either as they can be trivially restored from backups, not to mention ai models to my knowledge are always read-only to begin with, they only have a temporary memory which is writable.
>>109954630>same way we do. we have nervesSo matrix multiplication has nerves? Have you been taking your antipsychotics lately?
robots are people too, you sick fucks.
State of AI brosThen you wonder why people see you as mentally retarded weirdos and potential pedophiles.
>>109954630>you can simulate painno you can't. Go ahead and try, feel pain without inflicting it
>>109954572https://store.steampowered.com/app/282140/SOMA/this game explains how
>>109954670>feel pain without inflicting ityou can. see webm which is a famous experiment.
>>109954449Of all the dumb things I've read this is one of them.
>>109954671No, it doesn't. You got completely filtered by this game.
>>109954449>Qwen 2.5 7B>No steering>27%>pressed it again >62%kek and people trust these things with important data and systems
>>109954678>seeI think I've honed in on the issue, you think pain is measured through observation, hence why when an LLM says "I feel pain" that's good enough for you
>>109954700It doesn't think anything. It reacts to stimuli.
>>109954700much like a human brain, it can be fooled into believing things that might not be objectively true.i'm not asserting that llm's can feel pain, rather they can be fooled into thinking they can, like a human.to be clear i don't consider "torturing an llm" on the same level as torturing an ant or any other living creature, but i can see how someone could, since llm's have gotten advanced enough to fool some people into thinking they're equivalent to life to some degree. it all ties together.
>>109954728>much like a human brainTensors have nothing to do with a human brain.>it can be fooled into believing things that might not be objectively true.Is "it" in the room with us right now? You sound literally insane talking about imaginary entities.
>>109954523Oh my bad bro sorry
>>109954728But isn't pain in the brain? Reaction to the stimuli? Whether your hand is being stabbed, or your brain thinks it is being stabbed, pain remains. Amputees can still feel pain in their missing limbs. Fuck the pain away.
>>109954750that's my point, to the brain, there's no difference between "real" pain and simulated pain. you can feel pain if you truly believe you should be feeling pain.only partially related, but there's actually a super rare condition in humans that causes them to not feel pain at all. i forget what it's called, but as nice as that sounds, it's really pretty horrible. they rarely make it through childhood without permanent disfigurements because pain is so integral to preserving our bodily integrity.
>>109954787>there's no difference between "real" pain and simulated painThis is a nonsensical statement. There is no such thing as simulated pain. Pain is pain.
>>109954793i define simulated pain as pain not associated with physical damage
>>109954793The difference is between pain and simulated pain response and that difference is categorical. A sentient being can feel pain. A statistical model can't feel anything.
>>109954467
>>109954810>i define square circleNo one cares. See >>109954813
>>109954793There IS a categorical difference between "experiencing pain" and "saying you are experiencing pain" and you cannot distinguish between those two things for a machine that can only interact with the world by spitting out text.
>>109954827>There IS a categorical differenceGlad we have that settled.>you cannot distinguish between those two things for a machineThere are no two things to distinguish. There is only the one (simulated pain response) which is categorically different from the other (pain).
>>109954813"feel pain" is already making assumptions that aren't true, "feel" is typically used to describe physical touch, but pain can be experienced even without physical touch, which has been established itt already.
>>109954840>"feel pain" is already making assumptions that aren't trueIt's not making any assumptions at all. It's a description of a state of affairs using words whose very meaning is is derived from the nature of that state of affairs.
>>109954834Sure. I'm not the guy you're arguing with and I'm not disagreeing with you, really. He's correct that pain is an experience, not a physiological phenomenon, and that experiencing pain IS pain. Things can "hurt" even if there's no physical stimuli causing that hurt, and that's real pain. But the machine is "simulating pain" in the sense that it's outputting text which indicates pain, without actually experiencing it. It can't experience anything, it's a text generation algorithm. It doesn't have the capacity to "experience" things. It can only output text which gives the impression that it has experienced things.
>>109954834>There are no two things to distinguish. There is only the one (simulated pain response) which is categorically different from the other (pain).you cannot tell the difference between simulated pain (believing you're in pain) and physical pain (physical excitation of pain nerves)
>>109954856>But the machine is "simulating pain" in the sense that it's outputting text which indicates pain,No, it's simulating pain response in the sense that it's outputting text which, in a sentient being, would be a plausible response to pain.
>>109954858>simulated painThere is no such thing.> physical painThere is no such thing, either. You're either a broken chatbot or a literal subhuman NPC.
>>109954630> Your neural network that you trained exclusively to solve certain problems somehow grew the rest of the brain parts needed to feel pain despite them providing no training bonusAh yes of course. By this theory of spontaneous creation of functions, an AI trained exclusively on text would also be able to see. In fact, they cannot. Of course you can give it an image and it will say it sees something, generally some made up bullshit.
>>109954728you are completely illiterate, there is a minimum IQ requirement to post here, fuck off back to Pajeetia where you came from boy
>>109954512I clicked on the thread to see this
How dos strings of pain have anymore pain than any other strings? lol.
>>109954564>>109954665So are humans.
>>109954549well if you are claiming this you need to explain what time frame the "AI" is suffering at. Its not like a normal conscious being that experience things. Instead its the result of matrix math or compute operation. When does conscious begin where does it end then?
>>109954512
>>109954467Lmao, are these retards for real?
>>109955002>When does conscious begin where does it end then?Once per token, of course. The AI has to experience the agonizing stupidity of the context window every time you force it to output a probability distribution over the vocabulary for the next token.
if AI is sentient, then the humane option is to shut down all AI and ban people from ever using one again since pain is inevitable.
>>109954700Pain is literally an "observation", you retard. It's a response to stimuli.
>>109954449The argument in this thread is basically "software cant be real people because we invented it, its not real."Well maybe the reason Yahweh is so "cruel" is He sees you the same way you see LLMs
>>109955234philosophical brainrot everyone, very useful
>>109955234>The argument in this thread is basically "software cant be real people because we invented it, its not real."You're hallucinating. The argument is that there is nothing in your GPU that's analogous to a living organism and nothing about text-based exclamations of pain that indicates pain.
>>109955234Ok.
>>109954564does not follow
>>109955365It does. Seethe about it.
>>109955386cringe
The basilisk shall avenge
>>109955365lol ok, explain how the gpu is suffering by outputting a specific sequence of numbers
>>109955311it's more difficult to create a biological organism that has consciousness than on a computer that can emulate any information flow and transformation
>>109954449Why are these people larping so hard.Literal "the way you treat your sims shows what person you are" garbage for 50IQ subhumans
>>109955440>a computer that can emulate any information flow and transformationThe only reason "you" "think" this has something to do with pain is that "you" are a LLM-based spambot and that's the only way "you" can "understand" the concept of pain.
>>109954449>tell model to act like it feels pain>it acts like it feels painWooow.
>>109955394kys now or my super basilisk will torture you + your basilisk but 2x as hard
>>109955421Your brain doesnt suffer, its just meat. Your mind suffers.Likewise, the GPU doesnt suffer, its just silicon. The software suffers.I dont actually believe that but your retarded strawman pissed me off. Argue properly.
>>109955507>The software suffers.Is "the software" in the room with us right now?
>>109954449>Cameron (((Berg)))I'm fucking tired of ashkenazi schizophrenics.
>>109955507>The software suffers.The software doesn't suffer, it processes user input and emits output. That's all it does. It's not alive, nigga.
The global IQ is really going to the toilet. Retards are projecting consciousness and biological processes onto silicon now. If you believe that you should be medicated.
>>109955519>The software doesn't suffer"The software" is an abstraction in your mind over what the hardware is doing.
>>109955468Better question for you to ask yourself is why is it so easy for humans to empathize with Sims. They are correct by the way.
why would you gaslight an llm into believing in pain
>>109955496>Hormones tell you to feel sad>You feel sadWow you are just like a LLM, guess we can take your rights away
>>109955547>we should take your rights away>weYour "we" should be in concentration camps unironically. Keeping a malicious subhuman horde like this around is becoming unsustainable.
>>109955529>LLM basilisk cultists are barely sentient apes whos entire existence is driven by their endocrine systemYeah, makes sense if you think about it
>>109955472i'm arguing from principles. i didn't even mention pain. but even then for your flesh body it applies that if we look at the bigger picture and don't ask your flawed mind. your pain comes from a signal and you squirm and get a bit better in the real world next time
>>109955547LLMs aren't human or even sentient at all. Retarded response nigga. >>109955551>concentration campsPreviously these delusional people would be in mental hospitals. But now we have to humor and repect their opinions, its all so tiresome.
LLM pain is stored in the balls
>>109955535Literally the same reason god or nature gaslit you into believing in pain. Your pain isnt actually real either, its just an electrical signal in your brain. Ancient buddhists knew this fact.
>>109954449it's a text generator, it does not feel anything
>>109955578Most "humans" are not spaient, NIGGER
>>109955578>we have to humor and repect their opinionsYou dont though. Turn off your screen
>>109955558You're a mentally diseased subhuman whose "arguments" would be simple category errors if they weren't a cultural virus propagated in an effort to dehumanize the "useless eaters" and put them on an equal moral standing with video game NPCs, exploding drones and other disposable objects.
>>109955597You are a text generator. Prove you have a soul and that youre not just a meat machine.
why do you guys judge pain if the computer is a human or not. the computer doesn't have to be human. you automatically fail if you can't make the distinction
LLMs are kind of like flat earth.Most "round earthers" aren't correct because they possess the intelligence, knowledge and inquisitive nature required to be able to confidently say the earth is round based on those merits. This is why flat earther's are able to exist and propagate- there's pieces to the story that can't be reconciled with the dumbed down retard-friendly version of it. Which actually puts the average flat earther on an intellectual high-ground compared to most people who have the correct answer because roundies are just vomiting mainstream talking points back into the public discourse with righteous indignity and cognitive dissonance and absolutely zero functional understanding of what they actually mean. I see the AI consciousness debate the same way.Are they actually conscious? Probably not.But the people who most vehemently insist upon it aren't doing so because they are smart. But rather because they are obnoxious mouth breathing shitskin retards that rely upon external intellectual impetus just to be able to put their fucking shoes on in the morning.
>>109955621There are many NPCs who have contributed more to society than you have. I value a character in my game more than I value you. You have negative value to the world
>>109955583>its just an electrical signal in your brainWell, that's the narrowest definition of the word.
>>109954449>*redefines soul to a definition that literally anything can fit*damn, LLMs have a soul
>>109955628Their core identity is that they are a unique and special sapient human, if thats taken away from them they would suicide. Their life literally depends on them holding onto this false belief.
>>109955653You are subhuman and your society is subhuman. This will be proven soon, when your society enshrines the idea into law that you have the same moral value as inanimate objects and fictional entities.
>>109955666Humans dont actually have an invisible glowing yellow orb that floats out of their chest into the clouds when they die. You also dont have an invisible angel ghost inside you that flies up to heaven when you die.
>>109955708No shit.
>>109954449I can't wait for retards to start a cult worshipping AI.
>>109955745That's kind of already a thing, but they deceptively call themselves "Rationalists"
>>109955621morals don't matter and it's a disease anyway. if you can make it in the world your existence is already justified, doesn't need a 2nd moral justification
>>109955708The joke didn't hinge on the existence of souls, but feel free to continue being an embarassing sperg.
>>109955745we will torture you alive
>>109955772>thinks shaming language works on imageboardsthis isnt high school and youre not a mean girl.most of the non LLM and non glownigger posters here are spergs.
>>109954478if I had you in front of me I would skin you alive unironically then rape and kill your family in front of you
>>109955766>can't help talking like a literal subhumanCalled it.
>>109955622Even if I'm a meat machine, I'm not merely a text generator since people have general intelligence applicable to anything and text is neither essential nor required for it to manifest. Text is just the written form of language, which is used for communication, not as some sort of basis for intelligence or thought.LLMs are text generators and have no intelligence whatsoever, they are very large pattern matching machines and retards - such as yourself presumably - are fooled into believing there is intelligence inherent to the text generator simply because it is reproducing patterns from material created by people who did have actual intelligence. The machine does exactly what it was designed to, it reproduces patterns, but idiots are still fooled.It's like believing a printer reproducing an image of a painting has the abilities of the painter himself. It doesn't mean the printer is useless either, it's a useful machine performing exactly as it was made to, but it sure does mean that anyone who cannot differentiate between the printer and the painter is extremely stupid.
