What humanity considers to be "magic" is an ever shifting goal post. History shows that "magic" is frequently the label we give to technologies and sciences we do not yet fully understand. Alchemy was once the seeker of the Philosopher's Stone; it is now chemistry. Herbalism was once a craft of mystical potency; it is now pharmacology. In each case, once the underlying mechanisms are mastered and made commonplace, the "magic" evaporates from the public consciousness, leaving behind a tool taken for granted.If we accept Arthur C. Clarkeâs third lawâthat sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magicâthen the digital world is not a departure from magic, but its current manifestation.This transformation is visible in the very vocabulary of computer science. The field is saturated with terminology rooted in the occult and demonology. We "cast" classes, "invoke" objects, and "call" upon functions. The background processes of an operating system are literally named "daemons," and those who master the art of coding can be viewed as modern wizards. To program is to write scripts of "spell-work" in an arcane, non-spoken language to command automatons. These programs follow instructions to the letter, regardless of the consequences, much like a traditional ritual.(1/3)
>>109968271Wingadrium Leviosa muddah fukka
Ultimately, the distinction between the miracle and the mundane is a trap of perception. We live in an age where we use "magic" every day, but because it is powered by electricity and codified in software, we no longer recognize it as such.The technomancer recognizes that the veil between the mystical and the mechanical has already been torn.Already, major players have taken moves to create their own organizations, hoping to shape the evolution of technology in a way that will bring about their particular end goal.I propose the creation of a new society, The Order of the Machine Tower.Just as the mages and alchemists of old created orders to share knowledge and advance their art, this order will be dedicated to the advancement of Technomancy, in whatever shape or form it may take.Just as truth seekers once gathered in towers, it seems fitting that our order be named after a tower as well. Our crest is that of a radio tower, a symbol of one of the greatest advancements that brought mankind into the information age.Membership is open to those who seek the mastery of the machine and the advancement of the craft. Together, we shall exchange knowledge, refine code, and see just how far we can plunge into the depths of the craft.(3/3)
>>109968271>Arthur C. Clarkeâs third lawWhat
>>109968271We don't really have a concept of traditional "magic" in modern society. Magic as a concept is fundamentally incompatible with Western rationalism. Even if you don't understand how something works, you implicitly recognize that there is some logical process behind it. This isn't even necessarily a materialist thing, Christians like Aquinas assigned rational logic to their rituals.
>>109968353"British science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke formulated three adages that are known as Clarke's three laws, of which the third law â that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" â is the best known and most widely cited."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws
>>109968381I actually agree with part of your point: in modern Western society, âmagicâ in the traditional sense has largely ceased to be a serious explanatory framework. But I don't think that means Western society has never had a meaningful relationship with the concept.The Greeks and Romans certainly practiced what they understood as magic and ritual, and later European societies had alchemists, astrologers, occultists, and various traditions of ritual practice. Even royalty and courts employed people who believed they could produce useful knowledge or effects through these practices. Obviously, that doesn't mean those practices actually worked in the supernatural sense; only that âmagicâ was once a meaningful way of conceptualizing the world.And Iâm not really arguing that magic is secretly real, or that we should abandon rationalism entirely. My argument is more about how the category itself changes.Things that once seemed mysterious can become mundane once we understand the mechanism behind them. Conversely, things we currently understand only partially can still inspire the same sense of wonder that older societies associated with magic.The part I'm particularly interested in is what we lose when we become too quick to dismiss an idea simply because it sounds strange, speculative, or whimsical. Exploration has to eventually submit to evidence, obviously, but I don't think every idea needs to be useful, rationally complete, or immediately defensible before we're willing to entertain it.That's really where the technomancy idea comes from for me. I'd like to bring some of that sense of wonder into technological exploration without abandoning the rationalism that lets us actually determine what works.
fucking go back to >>>/x/
>>109968344I like your idea and have recently had similar ideas, I'll join, but I won't engage in demonology
>>109968638no, fuck off. tripfags should be executed. t. rippen thru >>>/x/ for 5 years
>>109968644>This isn't a cult, it's more like a guild.I just remembered I've been thinking of doing this like an hour ago but I didn't because I didn't know how to start it, crazy, If this continues I can make a general thread for you every wednesday 3pm est, if we get banned here for some reason we can go to /lit/.
the tech tower is reversed, youre demonstrating the lack of basic knowledge, like the rest retards around this shillholefirst goes the punchline, the gist, then may go indistingushable babble, walls of useless text etc
>>109968758Funny how that works! I am glad to see enthusiasm, and I would definitely appreciate some help with that if we get some more people interested.
>>109968768>the tech tower is reversed, youre demonstrating the lack of basic knowledge, like the rest retards around this shillhole?I'll admit I am not the best artist, but I don't see how it is "reversed".
>>109968805Even if it's just 2 people I'm sure some value could come of it, the vision I had was about more than just tech, although tech, specifically AI was the focus.
>>109968812>I don't seeyes, you dont see and you dont know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIKW_pyramidthe Q is when youre going to pay back for your education
>>109968271What type of organization are you trying to do here? What does your ideal end state look like?
>>109968976My drawing was not supposed to be a representation of a model detailing the hierarchy of information you tard, it was supposed to be a radio tower. That's why I literally said "Our crest is that of a radio tower, a symbol of one of the greatest advancements that brought mankind into the information age". I even posted a real picture of a tower in case it was just my shitty drawing that was confusing you.Maybe your village doesn't have wireless communication, but the rest of the modern world has built towers like these all over the place.
>>109969069shutafakap or give a punchline, retard. i dont feel the punch yet. bla bla bla, bla bla bla
>>109968977The simplest answer is that I'm envisioning something closer to a guild than a conventional club, organization, or technical community.A lot of technical communities are very good at teaching people how to do things that are already known to work. That's valuable, but I think there's room for a community where someone can say, âThis probably sounds ridiculous, but what if we tried it?â without the immediate response being being ridicule.If someone has a strange idea for using AI, an unconventional hardware project, software nobody has thought to build, an experiment that might fail spectacularly, or even just a theoretical concept they want to explore, that's what I'd like the Order to be a place for.The goal isn't to assume every strange idea is secretly brilliant. Most probably aren't. The goal is to give interesting ideas enough room to be explored before deciding they're worthless.Ideally, members bring their own ideas, skills, knowledge, and resources. Someone proposes a project; other members can contribute, challenge the assumptions, refine the idea, or actually help build it. Someone might know the relevant programming technique, someone else might have the hardware, and someone else might know enough mathematics to identify a flaw in the original premise.It doesn't even require the whole Order to agree that something is worthwhile. Five people can decide they're interested and pursue it together. If it fails, they've learned something. If it works, other people can build on it.So my ideal end state isn't a giant organization with a rigid hierarchy or a doctrine everyone has to follow. It's a network of curious people willing to investigate ideas that might otherwise never get investigated.If someone joins with a strange idea, finds three people willing to help build it, and six months later they have a working prototype that didn't exist before, then the Order has accomplished exactly what I want it to accomplish.
>>109968925In that case we can try to start a general at some point. I am also personally interested in AI, but I wouldn't want to limit what projects others work on.
>>109969101My question was a bit more mundane than this. Are you envisioning a general thread, some kind of voice server, a website? an official professional organization with government licensing?
>>109968271>>109968304>>109968344this is what programmers actually believe
>>109969120Why not just be a generic organization? Then unaffiliated groups can branch out and do whatever they want rather than some kind of strict agenda, like creative destruction in economics, personally i would start with a general thread or something akin as a simple starter, but then if we wanted to do a major project or a new branch we could just start a new thread or something.
>>109969120Oh sorry, I misunderstood. In that case, the practical answer is: probably a general thread to start with, and whatever other spaces or platforms people find useful as the community develops.I'm deliberately envisioning it as decentralized. The Order is more of a banner or shared identity than a centralized organization. There wouldn't be a leader telling everyone what projects to pursue, a curriculum everyone has to follow, or an official hierarchy.If three people find each other through the Order and decide they want to go build something together on their own website or Discord or whatever platform works for them, that's a successful outcome. They can work independently and come back later to share what they learned. If someone just wants to discuss ideas, that's fine too. If someone wants to organize a particular project, they can.The idea is essentially that the Order provides a way for like minded people to find one another without requiring everyone to participate in the same project or even the same platform.And no, I'm not envisioning anything remotely like a government-recognized or professionally licensed guild. The âOrderâ terminology is deliberately more thematic than bureaucratic.I don't particularly want the identity of the Order to become synonymous with me as its founder. Once it's established, my intention is to stop using this trip and continue work under a new name.>>109969187This is much closer to what I was envisioning.
>>109969205well i'd certainly post in your general.
>>109969205I already have so many ideas but I don't want to hijack your vision, I was thinking of a name change for the general thread to blend philosophy and technology but it's up to you, I also have ideas on topics and projects for the general but I might have to leave that for tomorrow.
>>109969282Thanks! You are more than welcome to share any ideas or thoughts with the rest of us, even if you aren't completely on board with "joining".>>109969317I definitely don't want you to feel like you're hijacking the vision! Honestly, this is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to see happen, people taking the basic idea and running with it.I was thinking something simple like /tow/ for âtower,â mostly because it's short, memorable, and easy to find. I don't know if that's already taken by another board, though, so I'm completely open to other suggestions.As for blending philosophy and technology into the name, I'm not opposed to philosophical discussion at all. In fact, I'd actively encourage it. I just don't know if I'd want the general itself to be framed around any particular philosophical approach. I'd like to avoid is the Order becoming associated with one particular school of thought or ideology. I'd rather have the general be broad enough that someone can show up with a completely unrelated hardware project or programming idea and feel equally at home.So by all means, bring your ideas for topics and projects tomorrow! I'm genuinely interested in seeing what other people think the Order could become.
>>109968271This sounds pretty cool. So much of tech these days is just jaded people complaining. I'm glad to see some anons are doing something fun again.
>>109968271bump, i'll remake this thread tomorrow if it dies.
>>109968271Ill give this a bump too, want to see where it goes
>>109968271
>>109968296fpbpOP is a deranged schizo faggot and I didn't read past the first paragraph.
>>109968381the logical process is that the universe is an alive, thinking mind of its own and thoughts and feelings have the same kind of energy pushing an object has
>>109969406I completely agree with you on the philosophy point, I more meant philosophy as a broad approach as you said, /tow/ is good, I'm still thinking about how to present the combination of philosophy and technology so maybe no new name change for now, any ideas would be appreciated.One of my main ideas to start the general is a technology news aggregation section, maybe just a few links to start with, but i've noticed that news aggregation in the modern world is absolutely garbage, despite the apparent progress of technology, and nowhere is this more apparent than in technological news, it's always AI doom mongering with little to no actual technical detail of significance. I also think this would be a valuable resource and niche to fill as AI gets better, those who work on AI and invest in stocks need to be able to know what's happening and if they get good and relevant information it may help. I have many other as of yet uncooked ideas but this seems like a nice and easy one to implement to start with and relevant to the guild aspect of what we're trying to do, and I think it would be pretty easy to scale it up step by step with various people fulfilling different roles in aggregation.
>>109972976yeah that's kind of the getaway, I don't subscribe to the idea that it's super intelligent consciousness though
I appreciate everyone who kept the thread alive and volunteered to remake it while I was sleeping!>>109973776I understand what you mean now. I think that would be a great idea, kind of how gaming generals have news about their particular game, but in this case obviously much more useful to our group. I would be very appreciative if you wanted to take on the responsibility of finding AI news.>>109972969If you didn't (or, more likely, couldn't) read past the first paragraph, why would I care what you think. You don't need to advertise your inability to read to the rest of us.>>109972976>>109973792I find the idea interesting, though I haven't really looked into it too much. Reminds me a bit of Lain.
>>109974249Sure, i'll get on it, might as well do it in this thread and we can put it in the OP's of future threads.
/tow/ NewsAI news:>Son who used AI to help save mum's life hopes case can help other Parkinson's patientshttps://www.sepe.gr/en/news/22780932/son-who-used-ai-to-help-save-mum-s-life-hopes-case-can-help-other-parkinson-s-patients/>Adobe Forecasts 130% Surge in AI-Driven Retail Traffic During US Holiday Seasonhttps://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/adobe-forecasts-130-surge-ai-134100443.html>Pope Leo on AI art: Beyond aesthetics, âthere is an ontological differenceâhttps://ewtn.co.uk/article-pope-leo-on-ai-art-beyond-aesthetics-there-is-an-ontological-difference/Tech and Science news:>Scientists just made a superconductor stronger using âempty spaceâhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/09/260930225456.htmGeneral news:>North Korea launches at least one ballistic missilehttps://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/news/20261003de54020/
>>109974249What is your general idea or goal for this guild OP? To achieve or organize things you need some kind of direction or goal. To create a collaborative philosophical theory on technology? To build some kind of system? To share knowledge? To shitpost?If you're just going to wait for enough people to join to do something without actually having done anything at all ourselves, it almost never works like that.
>>109975563This looks great! I would suggest adding a small section at the top for people who are new. Something like "What is The Order of the Machine Tower?" followed by an short summary. Maybe something like:"The Order of the Machine Tower is a society dedicated to Technomancy: the idea that modern technology, software, electricity, and AI are forms of the âmagicâ able to accomplish feats once attributed to mystical arts. Its members seek to master and advance this craft by sharing knowledge, refining code, and exploring the boundaries of conventional techniques."Also, what day or how frequently does everyone think would be best for the general to be posted? I know every Wednesday 3pm EST was offered, but I don't know how many people would be available that day (or how picky the janitors are about something they might perceive as "spam").
>>109975702I agree that sitting around waiting for someone else to "make a move" isn't going to accomplish anything. That's part of why I decided to take the first step and create this group in the first place. Since I only made the first post yesterday, we're still very much in the stage of finding people who are interested.As for the actual goal of the guild, I don't envision it as an organization where everyone is directed toward one particular project. I see it more as a banner under which people with similar interests can find each other.There are probably a lot of people here who have some strange idea they've been wanting to explore, a project they've been tinkering with, or a rabbit hole they've gone down that doesn't really fit neatly into an existing technical community. The idea is to give those people a place to say, "This might be crazy, but hear me out," and actually have other people willing to hear them out.If someone wants to experiment with an unconventional programming, investigate an obscure technology, develop a strange philosophical theory about computing, or just pursue some project that doesn't fit anywhere else, I'd like this to be a place where they can present it, find people who are interested, collaborate if they want to, and share the results, even if the result is "we tried it and it didn't work".I'm also not interested in forcing everyone into the same project. The guild provides the network, the banner, and the meeting place. Individual members decide what they want to pursue.That said, I agree with your point: we shouldn't just create a forum and then sit around waiting for the community to organize itself.Now that the initial post has gotten some interest, I think the next practical step is to start a weekly or monthly general where people can show what they're working on, throw ideas around, and find potential collaborators. I have a few projects I've been tinkering with myself, and I'm sure other people here do too.
>>109976924Interesting thread. I might actually spend a moment to solve the CAPTCHA. Maybe it's just the algorithm, but I as well am a computer scientist and occultist. The root of all magick is language: thought given form.
>>109976924desu just make an IRC, 4chan is dead for this type of talk
>>109976916I was astonished at how fucking difficult it was to collect news that wasn't behind a paywall and shit. 50% of the articles were the same shit written over and over again, and only 10% of the articles were relevant or interesting, if that. It made me think of a potential AI news aggregator project that would actually tell you the fucking news, it would seem like it wouldn't be that difficult to make a simple one, and there's probably a market for it, seems like noone wants to do it in the mainstream.Summary looks good, Wednesday 3pm is just when I can post it but others are free to post one whenever they want, I doubt jannies would care as long as the thread is related to the topic of the board, we can just move boards if they get dumb anyway.
>>109977514It's not either/or, we can do both if we want.
