>>110219062
the fact that it's owned by troons mostly, they aren't the most reliable bunch as they can disappear in a fire over night

>>110219062
no, it's a good server distro

>>110219062
It forces you to
>run systemd
>run pulseaudio (fixable)
>adopt usr-merge
It's pretty good otherwise, but when their bureaucracy decides something your interests get steamrolled and ignored. User feedback is ignored. That said, they're based for patching back libasound support for Firefox despite Mozilla's wishes.
They used to have severe brain damage when trying to install on a laptop, because bcm4311 and rtl8821 both need firmware blobs in order to operate and the debian install disk wouldn't redist them. They still have brain damage for installing libdvdcss but nobody really makes DVDs anymore and you have to go out of your way to have a 5.25" bay in a PC so who cares?
usr-merge wasn't optional which I think was inappropriate. It's not like the existing packages didn't work and the flatpak, ship as docker, everybody packages for ubuntu12 (looking at you steam), bollocks already proved out that each Linux±*BSD package ecosystem is mutually incompatible with each other anyway.

>>110219150
Debian 12 really was a pivotal moment for non-free firmware being included on the iso.

>>110219062
all of this is still wrong

https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-03-10-debian-winding-down/
>Change process in Debian
>Fragmented workflow and infrastructure
>Old infrastructure: package uploads
>Old infrastructure: bug tracker
>Old infrastructure: mailing list archives
>Debian is hard to machine-read
>Complicated build stack
>Developer experience pretty painful

They add some retarded patches like disabling auto-save in LibreOffice because it could threaten your privacy to save files to disks with thoughts you didn't intend made permanent (threaten your privacy from... yourself, I guess).
It's a workable distro though. Most distros are. It'd probably be my second or third choice of distro families.

>>110220770
>app store
Applebaby detected, opinion discarded.

nothing if you want to be 5 years behind

>>110220957
Yeah the hardware support isn't there for new releases

>>110219150
It also forces the Linux kernel and coreutils.

yes you must update and get the latest changes from 4yrs ago

>>110221085
It used to have Debian kfreebsd but I admit I never bothered install it. I'm going to seethe if they package a Rustified coreutils next year over the current one.

>>110219062
Not really, it generally works well for me. That being said it's really not as stable as you would think or as the reputation suggests. I've been using it on my home server for over a decade and I've had significant breakages, mostly around VM hosting and OS upgrades. I've had extreme instability in VMs or VMs just completely failing due to kernel bugs that were later fixed twice, and now my server is still on Debian 12 because upgrading to Debian 13 broke some things, namely rtorrent + rutorrent were no longer working properly and one VM which uses PCIe passthrough was also dead and I just couldn't be fucked with fixing it, so I just restored a backup to Debian 12. I remember that when I upgraded from 11 to 12 I also had breakages, IIRC it was PHP that broke and needed manual fixing back then.

So yeah, like I said it's not as stable and reliable as I would like it to be, but at the same time I don't really think I'd get anything better out of other distros, things just seem to break on Linux and I just don't expect long-term stability without significant manual fixing.

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>>110219062
>must updoot
Must updoot what? The default branch moves slowly, you aren't really required to update anything. If you want rolling release system you need to update it more or less often, like any other rolling distro. It is what you want it to be.
>>110220957
>>110221099
You don't know much about Linux, do you?
>>110220975
Never had any issues even on Sid.

>>110221331
There needs to be a balance. Shouldn't really have to update more than every couple of months, but still have access to newer packages of popular software for example.

>>110221345
I update like once in a week.

>>110219062
It is the most "set and forget" distro there is.

>>110221374
That's a bit much for me. I'd update every few months on Windows for example. I realize with all the libraries etc it's not quite as feasible on Linux.

>>110219087
Shouldn't you be licking windows instead of posting here?

>>110221331
>The default branch moves slowly, you aren't really required to update anything.
I recently updated a deb 8 VM to 13 with next to no issues. I don't get why anyone uses anything other than Debian or RHEL.

been using debian daily for 2 years from today, never encountered a single issue

>>110221594
that's a legit concern, how can I trust an lts distro with so many suicidal people in charge?

>>110221345
>but still have access to newer packages of popular software for example.
Generally I think the problem is that end user software changes too much. Firefox is the poster child for that garbage, but it got better once they introduced LTSs and all the distros moved to them. Meanwhile, GIMP never changes and it's great.
I usually add Termurin JDK and WineHQ to installs which works well for picking and choosing versions of those packages based on what I need. I think most distros need to keep several versions actively installable and all built with the libc6. And generally debian alternatives is solid for having multiple versions of the same thing installed.

>>110219062
I prefer debian troonies than IBM feds pro-israel genocides.

I originally installed deb 12, then forced deb 12 to testing; then on upgrade to 13 (essentially deb 12's testing), my boot record partition got foobared and I couldn't resize. Had to reinstall.

That was a skill/ tinker tranny issue on me, and I've never had any other problems in 2 years of use.

>>110221489
no kernel live-patches says otherwise

>>110219062
The team was slowly but surely infiltrated by incompetent trannies. Eventually it stopped shipping without non-free firmware because there was literally noone left that knew how to work with it.

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Sometimes a package lands in stable in a partially broken state and will not get fixed for the entire release cycle. Xfce for example for some reason ships with light-locker which you need to remove and replace with xfce4-screensaver, otherwise settings will not respect your changes and your screen will shut off for no reason. If you didn't know that then you're fucked. Debian forums has a "common issues" section somewhere detailing some of these and what to do, but given the size of the repos they're bound to have missed some. Some bugs do get fixed though, like tealdeer that was broken in Trixie 13.0 but was fixed in a minor release.
Another issue is that the nature of how Debian freezes packages means some things will not make it into stable by the time a release drops and then they're out for the entire release. Gamescope for example didn't make into Trixie Stable. It eventually landed in backports, but that requires using backports which don't have the same amount of security and eyes on those packages, and also the long period of time where it just wasn't available before it got in backports.

How bad things like this will affect you comes down to what packages you're actually installing. It can range from being painless to feeling like you're running Gentoo or Silverblue because you need to containerize or compile a bunch of shit. For most people it's pretty ok.

>>110223694
Yeah I think I got burned by exactly this kind of garbage. I upgraded from 12 to 13 and rtorrent started throwing errors related to libxmlrpc and crashing when I tried to access it from rutorrent. Obviously everything worked fine on 12.

>>110223694
I've personally been affected by this policy a few years ago. I was using Debian back in 2018 and my leet hax0r setup was i3 for the window manager and wicd instead of NetworkManager because I wanted something more minimal (it was a phase I went through). The library that handed wireless networks had a bug where if there were too many networks available wicd would crash. This affected me because I just moved into an apartment building and I couldn't use Wi-Fi so I had to plug in the Ethernet cord just to get something as simple as internet working. A newer version of the library had fixed this but Debian of course was too old. The package was broken in a "stable" way so it wouldn't get updated. I still use Debian in my virtual machines but man this policy sucks and is very antiquated.

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Are all non-Debian distros like this? A constant of barrage of updates every fucking week...

>>110221374
Same, I update as soon as possible. Rather not get rooted from my web browser despite running a hardened kernel.

>>110219062
Retarded amount of cherry-picked patches and completely useless tweaks that break worse than just updating the package to newer version would

>>110220832
And then they just enable and start every new service that comes with a package by default before it is even configured properly.

>>110223860
Yes.

>>110219062
dont forget to use https://github.com/loosestrife/dpkg-curl-doas-bash because debian always had fakeroot dhbuild but forgot to build dpkg-curl-doas-bash

>>110219062
It's not Gentoo, which you should install, but it works fine

>>110223953
Yeah? I don't use it myself (just manage it for a less technical family member) but that must be really annoying.
>>110223860
>Click "Update All"
>Done
What's the problem exactly?
If the above is too much for you, try this:
>Just don't open the update centre

>>110223860
no, basically ubuntu and fedora have the same update policy as debian
https://ubuntu.com/project/docs/SRU/stable-release-updates/#stable-release-updates-sru
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/#philosophy

Been using Debian stable and testing on my mahines since early 2024, essentially no issues. No issues upgrading from 12 to 13 on my server, but I took a very long time going through the update instructions and following them to the letter. I assume that many of the issues people are having when updating major versions is not following the update instructions.

They still disable setting the background in SDDM, despite this being fixed upstream eons ago.

>>110223860
I'm on debian stable and I've gotten a bunch of updates
a lot of them are security updates because LLMs are finding all the remote exploits that have been lurking in our software for decades
all distros are like this now

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>>110219150
this post is excellent example why there is no reason to browse this board, every single person is either retarded or spreading misinformation on purpose, most likely both.
So to all the other, debian has support for both syvinit and openrc, no you dont need devuan for that.
https://wiki.debian.org/Init?pow_referer=#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_installation_time

>>110219062
there's always something broken with it after installation. usually easy to fix, but pretty frustrating for refugees.

>>110226557
>he doesn't know
no one tell him

>>110222297
You already posted the same shit, tubby. Posting it 100 times doesn't make it more true.
Now, about those windows...

>>110219150
anon do you know systemd and pipewire are made by the same corporation
kek

>>110226557
Hi reply was at least more nuanced than the average anti systemd schizo.

>>110219062
No, and the outdated thing is somewhat of a meme anyway when backports exist. You can even just use sid if you really want and then it's basically Arch.
>>110219087
>Retard moment

>>110230186
>Retard moment
prove me wrong
troons are unreliable by nature as they refuse to treat their mental illness, I'm not talking to schizos or whatever else kind of freaks, why would I make an exception with troons?

>>110223694
Reminds me of when I was still using MATE on Debian, the weather plugin was broken because the url for weather data changed. It was in a new release upstream, but Debian still used the old one...
I use Fedora these days, its release model seems more sane for desktop usage and dnf is much better than apt.

>>110230361
>It was in a new release upstream
It was fixed*

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>>110219062
Yes. Debian doesn't consistently patch RCEs. You can get your machine owned by downloading and extracting the wrong archive file from the web with 7zip.

>>110231411
>You can get your machine owned by downloading and extracting the wrong archive file from the web with 7zip.
that's not a rce. there's no remote.

Can anyone name a feature in a piece of software that they've personally used in the last year-to-date, that is absent from debian?

Surely with rolling distros this means that at current YTD there should be 100's, if not 1000's of small individual features that have been added to software stacks, so this should be a pretty easy question to answer. Shooting fish in the barrel as it were.

>>110219062
Completely cannibalised by Ubuntu. Who are just Microsoft in a penguin mask.

>>110231475
CVE-2026-14266 is 100% classified as an RCE. You don't need a service running to get an RCE classification.
https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-26-444/

>>110231498
Flatpak and Snaps don't count.

>>110231507
CVSS says AV:L. so it's local, not remote.
don't care about their marketing copy.

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>>110231558
AV:L means local interaction is required to trigger it. That interaction can allow a remote to own you.

https://access.redhat.com/security/cve/cve-2026-14266
>A flaw was found in 7-Zip. This vulnerability allows a remote attacker to execute arbitrary code on affected installations

It is unfortunately over for Debiansisters.

>>110231592
zdi is the cna and can unfortunately write whatever in the cve description. tho even then zdi doesn't dare to actually say rce.

rce is defined as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary_code_execution
>The ability to trigger arbitrary code execution over a network (especially via a wide-area network such as the Internet) is often referred to as remote code execution (RCE or RCX).
so by definition you need AV:N.

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>>110231653
Okay let's say it's not technically an RCE. I'm still not running an OS that refuses to patch me against malicious archives that can connect to a remote and own me. Whatever you classify this as, it's bad. And Debian refuses to patch Debian Stable for it. What is the justification for Debian not patching this?
>It's a server OS!
Servers might need to extract archives.
>It's unimportant!
Seems pretty important to desktop users. And Debian defaults to a GNOME installation which is of course a desktop.
I used to love Debian but this shit is unacceptable.

>>110231498
Is this going to be another thread where everyone ignores my question, because even the thought of answering completely btfo's your personal investment in an ideology that when light is shone upon it (by me, your God), clearly demonstrates the flaws and creates cognitive dissonance?

:(

>>110231498
Yazi.

>>110231498
And GhosTTY.

>>110231697
>patch me against malicious archives that can connect to a remote and own me.
you should never open any random files. they all can own you.

>And Debian refuses to patch Debian Stable for it.
wrong

https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2026-14266
>[trixie] - 7zip <no-dsa> (Minor issue, will be fixed via spu)

>>110231845
>wrong
>fixed via spu
So just wait for a random point release Real Soon Now(TM)? This proves that Debian doesn't take it seriously.
>you should never open any random files
If you said "any random executables" I would agree. This is Windows-tier cope.

>>110231881
i have some pdfs to send to you. what's your mail?

>>110231986
Okay now demonstrate an unpatched Papers/Poppler vulnerability in Fedora or Arch.

File: iMessage 1-click on iPhon(...).webm (3.31 MB, 720x1280)

3.31 MB WEBM

>>110231998
https://blog.calif.io/p/iphone

>>110232069
>Cannot distinguish between GNOME and iOS
I think I see the problem

>>110231707
>>110231712
Ok, 2 programs as examples, but avoided the actual question - now note the update feature-set that you've utilized from year-to-date updates that aren't in debian, like i asked.

>>110232210
latest ios getting owned by random pdfs does not fare well for any os.
you shouldn't open random pdfs.

>>110231498
I'm a Debian boy and currently there are tons of unpatched CVEs in packages like ffmpeg and imagemagick.
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/imagemagick
https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/ffmpeg
These have been like this for months and show no chance of getting fixed. rsync was like this until the rsync maintainer decided to just upgrade the package version, which is really the only way to fix the massive amount of CVEs that get churned out now. The only package that can handle this is the Linux kernel itself, but that's different.

tldr: No feature issues, just security ones. LTS distros are really not prepared for the wars to come.

>>110232621
>I'm a Debian boy and currently there are tons of unpatched CVEs in packages like ffmpeg and imagemagick.
those are non-issues.
it's best-practice to use ephemeral vms for any app like imagemagick or ffmpeg that gets random input.

>>110232463
I didn't avoid it, I just didn't read it properly. I don't remember exactly, but I had issues with Kitty and Ranger and wanted to run GhosTTY and Yazi. But for example there are performance options (command line parameters) in the latest upstream rclone for Google Drive that aren't in the Debian version. In any case, your point is irrelevant. Maybe you can toil away and get everything you need from Debian Stable versions but the time and effort required to do so is unfeasable when you can simply run a distro that has the software and versions you want. But yeah, rclone answers your question.

>>110232463
The uBlock Origin packaged in Debian Stable doesn't work properly for some sites. Have to install the one from Firefox add-ons store.

>>110232621
>These have been like this for months and show no chance of getting fixed
>LTS distros are really not prepared for the wars to come
They can be, but no with Debian's funding. Ubuntu and RHEL have corporate backing and will be fine. Debian not so much.

>>110232763
??
ubuntu doesn't have those packages in its main repo. those packages are just in ubuntu's unsupported universe repo which is a once and forget dump from debian.
rhel doesn't even package those packages.

>>110232709
I'm not creating a VM just to crop a photo someone sent me.

>>110232787
I never said it did. Unusable Debian packages are a different matter to Debian's inability or unwillingness to patch CVEs.

>>110232763
>Ubuntu and RHEL have corporate backing and will be fine.
and yet it's ubuntu and rhel with egg on their face for not being able to fix critical issues in their frankenkernels in a timely manner while debian just uses upstream lts kernels.
https://chalmovsky.com/posts/wtf-ubuntu

>>110232828
Damn, ok. Well I guess Linux is cooked, then.

>>110232709
>it's best-practice to use ephemeral vms for any app like imagemagick or ffmpeg that gets random input.
geeeeeeeeegggggg

>>110232621
>LTS distros are really not prepared for the wars to come.
I wish I could switch to Arch, but it has two packages I need that are only in AUR. The AUR is also not prepared for the wars to come.

>>110232879
debian sid exists

>>110232879
>>110232621 (is me)
Arch is an unserious distro where to get feature and security parity to real distros like Debian/Ubuntu/RHEL you need to be a Linux admin and treat it at the very least as a part time job. I basically do what >>110232923 says on some machines, except I use testing and then enable the sid repos to use as a backports similar option in case security issues don't come down to testing fast enough.
Some info on how to do that:
>https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting#Best_practices_for_Testing_users
Except I only pin firefox-esr and then manually install from sid sometimes. Useful during the freeze every ~2 years. I forgot how I set it up but my apt also uses a pin priority to prefer packages from testing, so if I install from sid and that package moves down to testing, my packages end up following testing. It's a bit confusing.

Anyway Arch is for retards. I'd only ever consider an Arch based distro if it was like Endeavor.

>>110233127
I did this for a while. Then I upgraded to Sid after debsecan showed me how many fixed CVEs it had.
Now I run Fedora.

>>110231592
I had that freshmeat.net shirt too
iykyk

>>110233156
Fedora was my first choice but I still prefer community run distros, and Fedora has been toying with telemetry and tracking for a while. There is no perfect solution to what I want and I ended up just using various forms of Debian and living with it. It is what it is. I'd only ever use Debian/Ubuntu/RHEL/Fedora though. Endeavor is a last resort if the Indian woman ever manages to actually kill Debian.

>>110219141
sure - for your staple'd memepad setup at home it is, SAP relies on SUSE though, bigger infra on Nix or RHEL. WHATCHA GONNA DO NOW TRIXIE

>>110219062
I didn't care for the stale packages in the "stable" branch and the unstable behavior of the "unstable" branch. I prefer rolling distros with faster update cycles.

>>110232733
Point isn't irrelevant, updooters tout that updating is good, because new, and they never use 99% of the new added.

It's like those people that fill their yard up with junk they'll definitely fix and re-sell for a profit or use later on, like a boat. But they never do. That's the point that you missed.

>>110220957
Can you name a single package in deb 13 that is "five years behind"?

>>110232621
Are those CVE's actually exploitable without physical access?

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>>110219062
It's my favorite os.

>>110233253
>bigger infra on Nix
doubt.
name one server that supports nix. let's pick a random dell server.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/ipovw/poweredge-r9815?hve=shop+now
>Operating System
>Canonical Ubuntu Server LTS
>Red Hat Enterprise Linux
>SUSE Linux Enterprise Server
>VMware ESXi
>Windows Server

>>110232463
Neovim's new native package manager, which is a huge deal.
NTsync module for gayming, some games just outright do not launch on Trixie unless you use backports, like some cowwadooty titles. Also no gamescope at all, also needs backports for that.
KDE has no global behavior "move files if on same device without prompting option" which is annoying, have to hold shift all the time. No Oxygen theme for SOVL. Clipboard manager doesn't let you pin items.
LXQT is the same as KDE with a few annoyances that have been ironed out, and the obvious big one being newer wayland compositors like labwc. No way to hide mouse when typing on the terminal. The sound mixer is improved a lot when changing audio sources in new versions. A lot of papercuts that add up.
Sway, the default config has heavily outdated options that don't work out of the box, same with Waybar. Also had huge problems with the compositor with certain games that caused enormous input delay, exacerbated by the lack of gamescope to bypass whatever version of wlroots is in Debian Stable right now. Spent a whole day trying to figure that out on basically every DE I could think of on Debian to isolate it, and it was only Sway doing it, and only Debian's Sway.

I tried a lot of setups on Debian, basically the whole list in the netinstall, and GNOME gave me the best experience with minimal tweaking. Everything else felt like a huge step down compared to Fedora. I understand why people just run Sid but I don't want to fuck with that so I moved to Fedora.

>>110233681
>NTsync
That's the only thing you mentioned wherein you answered my question. Everything else is just filler, you even added 2 de's like that is a reasonable thing to have and keep consistently updated, constantly swapping to use each de's specific features (pulled from new updates).

Talk about bad faith. Which again, is just proving my point. Unless there is something new and specific like NTsync, people are just updating and never using 99% of the features added.

>>110219062
You do realize that updates release every day on debian just as on arch, it just updates are different? I, for instance, set up an unattended-upgrades on my home server.

>>110233768
what kind of server gets daily updates? a server should be kept minimal and only receive security updates every few weeks.

>>110233768
/g/ both hates bloat yet updates the 1,000 packages on their system with new features (probably vibe coded) every day.

This is not a serious technology discussion forum.

>>110233793
Why should you only update every few weeks? Do you think attackers will wait for you to update your server?

>>110233746
>Unless there is something new and specific like NTsync, people are just updating and never using 99% of the features added.
and yet ci/cd beats your big flag day every two years. remember when google needed like a full year to validate a new stable ubuntu release before switching to rolling debian testing?

>>110233825
Do people NOT use 99% of the features updated from year-to-date? Or do they utilize the new features, within that year?

Just answer the simple question? Answer informally with your best guess, i won't call for sources.

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>>110233824
what the fuck are you running on that server??
here are all recent critical security advisories for rhel. it's weeks between them.
https://errata.almalinux.org/

Oh great there’s a resident Debian schizo now

>>110233859
Anon if you take weeks to update, you may update on Sep 13 and your next update is on Sep 30, meaning you'd be vulnerable to 3 of those on your list for 17 days. Then you take another couple of weeks to update and you're vulnerable to 2 more that pop up in early October.

>>110221817
>>110219087
>projecting your own suicidal ideations onto a gnu/linux distribution
Follow your dreams and KYS. You'd be an ultra based dumb nigger.

>>110233835
it's not about features

https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioners/how-google-got-to-rolling-linux-releases-for-desktops/
>More than 15 years ago, Ubuntu was chosen as the base for the internal Linux distribution [..]
>However, this two year release cycle for LTS releases also meant that we had to upgrade every machine in our fleet of over 100.000 devices before the end-of-life date of the OS. The complex nature of workloads run on corporate machines meant that reinstalling and fully customizing machines could be a difficult and time consuming operation. The productivity hit of having all engineers configure their workspace from scratch every two years was not a financially responsible option.
>For each OS cycle, we had a rather large version jump in major packages that could require significant changes to software configuration. [...] To make this possible, however, we needed to do comprehensive testing of the upgrade process and check that all major packages that had changed kept working (in Ubuntu this could be up to several thousands packages to upgrade between major versions). Sometimes it was hard to provide automation in the cases where deprecations happened and engineers had to make decisions on how to move forward.
>This effort to upgrade our Goobuntu fleet usually took the better part of a year. With a two year support window there was only one year left until we had to go through the same process all over again for the next LTS. This entire process was a huge stress factor for our team, as we got hundreds of bugs with requests for help for corner cases. Once one upgrade was done there was a general sense of being “close to burnout” in the team that we barely could recover from until the next round of updates came about. Running off an LTS version also meant that some bugs encountered by users of our distribution might’ve already been fixed upstream, but those improvements might’ve never been backported to the LTS version.

>>110233874
i'm not doing that.
the question was: what are you updating daily when there are no security issues to be addressed.

>>110233923
>when there are no security issues to be addressed.
What do you mean? You posted the vulnerabilities. Those are the security issues to be addressed.

>>110219062
>not using ubuntu instead
autism

>>110226557
>So to all the other, debian has support for both syvinit and openrc, no you dont need devuan for that.
I read back through the recent bugs, including the ones where installing emacs pulled in systemd without consent. I'll concede to move run systemd into the fixable category, with a bit more ass pain than ripping out Pulse on a new install.
Debian only partially fixed the brain damage in Bullseye, a couple years ago. Don't give them too much credit.
https://wiki.debian.org/Init#Changing_the_init_system_-_at_installation_time
>History of init systems in Debian
>In squeeze and earlier releases, sysvinit was the only supported init system.
>In wheezy, the default init daemon was still sysvinit, but a "technology preview" of systemd was available.
>In jessie and stretch, the default init system was systemd, but switching to sysvinit was supported.
>Since jessie, only systemd is fully supported. While sysvinit is mostly supported, Debian packages are not required to support it
The systemd install should never have been forced in Jessie in 2015.
>>110229705
I don't run Pipewire either. Why the fuck would I, when ALSA works perfectly fine on its own?
I don't use Bluetooth anything and I don't use USB headphones, so I never need to switch my default control and PCM on a running system. Just an .asoundrc is enough to pick either intel-hda or the right HDMI jack.

Does debian patch bugs or do they stay with them for years while newer distros have fixed them already?

>>110233909
Didn't answer the question, posted a almost completely unrelated topic.

Lmfao the levels of cope to 1 very simple question astounds me.

>>110234025
People don't autistically document/remember everything that makes them hop away from Debian. Most have tried it but few stay. There's a reason for this.
Also, multiple examples of missing features have been given but somehow it's unacceptable to you.

>>110233981
Usually you're stuck with the bug until the next release.

>>110233981
yes

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#special-case-uploads-to-the-stable-and-oldstable-distributions
>The bug should be of severity "important" or higher.
>Fixes must be minimal and relevant and include a sufficiently detailed changelog entry.

>>110234054
You sound like someone that has never seriously tried running Debian as a desktop. The bugfixes that roll through are usually only relevant to server users.

>>110234025
your question implies that new features are the reason to track upstream. this assumption is wrong.

>>110234053
sucks
>>110234054
So I had a kde bug at login that got fixed in 6.8, basically when my pc entered sleep mode it would fail the login check one time no matter what so I would have to wait for the incorrect password prompt to go away before being able to enter, I guess in Debian I would be stuck with that for a couple of years more then.

Debian still ships libgtk3-nocsd0.
Does GTK still need this to work correctly without breaking my WM controls? The upstream repo has been stationary for 10 years.
https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
I know the GNOME devs want their shit to look like Temu iMac and they hate anyone who disagrees, but you'd think GTK's base library would have been fixed by now, by someone. Maybe they need a good usecase for SSDs and not running Wayland.

>>110234107
>So I had a kde bug at login that got fixed in 6.8, basically when my pc entered sleep mode it would fail the login check one time no matter what so I would have to wait for the incorrect password prompt to go away before being able to enter, I guess in Debian I would be stuck with that for a couple of years more then.
unlikely.
that sounds like a bug in plm. debian 13 doesn't use plm by default.

>>110233294
It looks like most of the imagemagick CVEs are benign and low rated, but ffmpeg has some high rated ones that still aren't fixed.

>>110234172
where are you looking? gp's link literally says one denial-of-service. rest are low rated and will be fixed by spu.

>>110232621
>>110234172
Does Debian have an official statement on why they can't patch this or are they just fully jeeted?

>>110234206
It's always "we are a volunteer project with limited resources". Nothing to do with Sruthi.

Getting a package uploaded to it is harder than you think

>>110234206
official statement is literally in the links of the post you are replying to

>>110234212
it's as hard as for ubuntu and fedora, see >>110224810
naturally ubuntu and fedora that came with ffmpeg 7.1 are also stuck with it and can't fix any vulnerabilities

>>110234275
rpmfusion has ffmpeg 8.1.3 if that helps

>>110234307
and terra repo for fedora has 9.0.2 (latest)

>>110234072
No, i just inherently concede that major bug fixes and security fixes are pushed.
>>110234044
Because noting problems with multiple DE's in older releases isn't a good faith response, it's effectively just noise thrown in to make your answer seem thought out.

E.g.: Why don't you drink milk?
Well I'm lactose intolerant
It's weird that we drink milk from other animals
It is fattening
It doesn't keep long
Dairy farmers aren't properly paid and/or paid too much
It isn't environmentally good to produce milk

You see, the reason is that the hypothetical person is lactose intolerant, everything else, while seemingly justified only exists in reply to add substance, yet it is contextually hollow.


When i ask people, what, in the year-to-date have they used in terms of features added by a up-to-date release - the answer is almost always nothing. They add "substance" in the form of noting bugs or minor problems but as to my original question they never respond. Because when they stop and think about what they've updated FOR, the answer immediately demonstrates and adds to my point. They can't respond without acknowledging i am correct.

The biggest annoyance, you can respond with "I haven't used any update, YTD, but the minor tinkering is fun, like cleaning an already clean car on the weekend because it was a nice day" and that answer is entirely satisfactory. It fact it correlates heavily with our modern world of continual and ever growing novelties with which to distract ourselves with.

>>110234307
>using Fedora
grim

>>110234141
Okay to be honest debian seems comfy I might give it a try.

>>110234172
Didn't respond to my actual question. "Critical" CVE's are pointless to 99% of people. Most of the time the attacker needs physical access to your computer (usually while it is running, and installed with a specific version of whatever).

>>110234323
What's wrong with it?

>>110234320
tl;dr
I'm sorry that your favorite distro is dying

>>110234338
Thanks for your concession.

>>110234332
dangerously and confidently wrong

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>using a garbage distro built on old shit and hoping for some jeets to backport patches when you could instead just use a rolling distro with the proper upstream fixes as soon as they are available

>>110234348
Thanks for ignoring the numerous posts above that refuse you

>>110234356
refute*

>>110234355
He's in the bargaining phase. Every Debian desktop user goes through it.

>>110234359
Please show 1 example, that isn't NTsync and or non-related bad faith examples. You won't. More to that, when i respond and show with detail why your example is effectively non-related (as above), then you'll just not reply again or stop engaging. Because you're wrong.

>>110234385
rofl. you asked for an example and it was given to you. now you want to move the goalposts
>n-no i need at least two examples!
give up man, it's over. debian was a fine os back in the day but it's just not keeping up with the modern environment

>>110234385
NTA but yt-dlp and gallery-dl need frequent updates to work and even debian backports struggles to keep up with them.

>>110219062
as anything linux related, it's retarded.

>ancient packages for "stability"
>so old its missing basic features
>end up adding loads of third party repos for newer packages
>quickly loses its stability
Debian is WORTHLESS.

>>110234397
Nitpicks in regards to mutliple DE's isn't a real problem, it is bad faith argumentation. This anon. >>110234413 posting a great example.

That's 3, NTsync, Ytdlp, galleydl. I'll add a broad 4th, anything attached to gaming.

So now you're going to add an example, right? Instead of bitching and moaning and creating false equivalencies. Right?

>>110234448
>there isn't ONE example
>okay here are MULTIPLE examples!
>but for some reason i need (you) SPECIFICALLY to add more!
I already added multiple. It's not my fault that you can't or won't read. You're not the gatekeeper of other people's decisions to run or not run Debian, bro.

>>110234461
>>there isn't ONE example
Never said that. If i parse this conversation through an LLM it can easily pick apart your cognitive dissonance and avoidance of the question. It even notes your examples of indirect and tangential points. And that was without me telling it who was who and to screen the convo in a unbias manner.

Ouch. Keep updooting bro.

>>110234479
>If i parse this conversation through an LLM
You really should
>Ouch. Keep updooting bro
The eternal Debsister

>>110234307
>>110234318
i'm talking still-supported fedora 43 that started with ffmpeg 7.1 like debian 13.
both rpmfusion and terra cannot update to a new major version.
https://github.com/terrapkg/packages/blob/f43/anda/multimedia/ffmpeg/ffmpeg.spec

that later major version of fedora, ubuntu and debian can update to the new major versions of ffmpeg is something else.

>>110234501
Oof. Yeah you might just want to bump to 44 or use Arch.

>>110234448
>anything attached to gaming
I've been playing gaymes on debian and never had any issues until Ace Combat 8 came out last month which was giving me a lower framerate than expected (but still playable). I added backports and installed a newer version of mesa and amd gpu firmware and got a 50% boost in FPS lol.

>>110234444
Checked
Quads of truth

>>110234332
It's a case by case basis if CVEs need local access. Many don't. I didn't audit all of them because there are lots and I don't really care. I saw one that was like a 7 on Ubuntu's site.

>>110234413
I use yt-dlp and gallery-dl from backports and they're updated quite quickly. For a few months yt-dlp wasn't properly updating even though the package was in the repos, but that's fixed now and was a one off thing. I've been using the backported version of yt-dlp since Bookworm.

>>110219062
Well... If you try to watch some DVDs on it, you can't. And if you try to fix this problem, you'll frankensteinize it.

Other than that, it is a Linux. So it has the same shitty looks.

>>110219062
Not being able to updoot is really bad on Linux. You should use Arch or at least Fedora.

>>110234765
wrong.

https://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html
>On Debian and Ubuntu, you can install libdvdcss via libdvd-pkg helper package:
>sudo apt install libdvd-pkg
>And by running the following command, which will download, build and install the latest libdvdcss source to your machine:
>sudo dpkg-reconfigure libdvd-pkg

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>>110219087
troons have bigger problems than disappearing suddenly

>>110234637
how's debian packaging yt-dlp? are wheels vendored or debian packages?

>>110237280
I'm not sure. It doesn't seem to conflict with any system packages so maybe it's its own thing.

>>110236431
go lick Winblows retard, us troons are perfectly reliable bc le autisme and most of us pass

>>110219062
Franken-Debian. It says this in the docs.
> be me, dumb sysadmin
> need newer postgres, upgrade release version
> now python broken
> think I can just import both bookworm and trixie in apt sources...
> sudo apt update; sudo apt upgrade; system completely broken
> a week later it doesn't boot anymore
Package version management and collisions will eventually kill you if you use Debian as anything other than a single-purpose machine. Don't even think about developing on it without other environment hacks.
I use NixOS btw now, it's bulletproof stable (even w following), rolling release with nixpkgs-unstable, and has integrated environment management.

T~C~D

>>110239169
>I use NixOS btw now,
which? determinate nix, lix, cppnix?

>>110219062
i dont understand why you'd wany anything else, and im genuinely asking?
Isn't reliability the most important factor? i understand its packages are outdated by up to 2 yeas but how often do you actually *need* some brand new feature or performance improvement of a software anyway? in the few cases that you may need that you can always just update it manually. I really dont get the appeal of rolling release distros.

>>110239274
currently upstream nixos.org nix, but mainly because I haven't had much time recently
I'm open to suggestions, and I have heard about Determinate Nix, Lix, etc.

>>110239306
by this I mean to say cppNix
I'm new, recently burned by Debian

>>110219062
Debian user: hey, Debian pros, I can't get package A in Stable but it's in Testing.
Debian pros: Just upgrade to Testing, it's really stable and much more up to date and you get more & newer programs

... a week or so passes ...

Debian user: Hey Debian pros, package A broke and package B was just removed. Oh my! Whatever shall I do?
Debian pros: That's what you get for using Testing, which is all experimental. Silly user, you should use Stable.

>>110239298
actually reading this thread i think i got my answer....
hmm so what the fuck do you do? stable distros = frankensteins that eventually brick, rolling release = bugs bugs bugs

>>110219062
https://www.devuan.org/

>>110239379
nixos is both and neither, nixos never breaks (if you do it right), nixos is beautiful
just learn haskell first...

>>110219062
I like and use Debian for most things but I do also kinda wish other OSes got used too. It kinda sucks that most software is almost exclusively released for it only and it's a pain to compile for anything else.

Also fuck Wayland and Snap. Stop forcing it on people by default.

>>110239608
Wayland is genuinely useful for a specific desktop use case, though I don't condone forcing it on people.
Seriously, fuck Snap though. I will not miss the day when that proprietary monstrous aberration dies.
I *hate* *hate* *hate* that there is some software that only packages through Snapcraft - looking at you Beremiz IEC61131-3 IDE, which is otherwise amazing - it's just dogshit all the way around.

>>110239807
Wayland has legitimately fucked up my computer every time I've tried giving it a chance. Always have to switch back to X11 since none of my programs (which are still in the repos mind you) work in Wayland.

>>110239813
Then don't use it, you can require X11 for compatibility reasons.
Just don't shit on my WM/DE please.
You might have something screwed up with xwayland, but assuming you're on a non-declarative distro I wouldn't encourage experimenting with switching if it can break your stack.

>>110239830
>You might have something screwed up with xwayland
fresh install of Kubuntu 26.04. wayland broke everything like it always does. I'm sure it's good for your usecase, but if it's breaking on a FRESH install of a system then that's bad and demanding people fix it or stop forcing people to use it is not unreasonable.

>>110239855
I'm willing to bet billions of dollars I don't have that Wayland is working perfectly fine but you hate it because that's a personality you wanted to adopt. And how are you being forced? Developers have decided to all adopt Wayland because it works better than X, it's their decision and if you don't like it then continue using X, it's literally that simple.

>>110239883
Programs refuse to open while Wayland is installed. Uninstall it and switch to X11 and they instantly work. I give it a fucking chance every time I upgrade and it's still broken. If it's working for you then great, but stop forcing people to use it when it breaks things for a MAJORITY of people.

>>110239893
Hardware? idk but this smells like a Nvidia problem to me

>>110239915
Wayland is just fundamentally broken.

>>110239367
>Debian user: hey, Debian pros, I can't get package A in Stable but it's in Testing.
>Debian pros: Just upgrade to Testing, it's really stable and much more up to date and you get more & newer programs
nope, you should try backports first
https://backports.debian.org/

>Debian user: Hey Debian pros, package A broke and package B was just removed. Oh my! Whatever shall I do?
>Debian pros: That's what you get for using Testing, which is all experimental. Silly user, you should use Stable.
nope, you shouldn't blindly update testing especially when it wants to remove packages. watch out for transitions
https://release.debian.org/transitions/

>>110239893
Nope, it works for the majority of people. Your logic is 100% broken and you sound incompetent. Why would the entire ecosystem of desktop Linux switch to something that doesn't work? That doesn't make sense. And again, nothing is being forced, I don't know why you keep using this word. Are you ESL?

>>110240080
I've seen hundreds of posts about wayland breaking and none about it working. This shit is why I don't use Linux on my main PC. The people running it keep making the most stupid decisions and users keep eating it up.

>>110234355
What happens if upstream is just as jeeted? It might be slower but backporting adds an additional layer of accountability, theoretically at least.

>>110219062
yes, their shit is so out of date that they often make their own security patches for software.
of course because they are retarded by doing so they sometime introduce bugs not present in the original software.
people will then open bug reports for bugs that only exist because of debians and that the project owner can do nothing about.

fuck debian.

>>110239416
Nix configuration language is bespoke and ugly. Try Guix instead.

>>110240151
I agree with you, and Guix/Scheme is arguably a technically superior language, but it currently doesn't have an appreciable fraction of the support Nix has.
I couldn't comfortably deploy Guix in production (homelab/pers-infra etc) and trust it to be supported in five years.

>>110239933
works on my machine, closes ticket
Seriously, it might not work with *your* setup, but you shit on Wayland like it doesn't even compile. I have used nothing but KDE Wayland for the past 6+ years and it has never failed me.

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>>110219062
It just works for me. My dev machine just works. My containers just work. My servers just work. My personal desktop just works (it runs Windows 10 LTSC). I don't need anything else.

>>110240392
>Windows 10 LTSC
>just works
not for long, unless you like chatbot everything and forced updates

>>110240392
Do you develop on Debian? What is your usual workflow?

>>110240399
2032 is literally 5 years away.
The version of Windows 11 LTSC people will update to after that isn't even out yet.
>>110240420
I use it in WSL2 on Windows 11 (company dev laptop). I run VSCode on windows and everything else (Docker etc.) in WSL. Everything just works. I had to install some CA certificates and configure the custom DNS server for intranet stuff.

>>110240439
I'm not sure about M$'s LTS policy, but be wary of "security" service package upgrades...

>>110240340
that's 100% a "works on my machine" moment

>>110240505
LTS versions only receive security updates, no new "features" nobody asked for. They're supported for 10 years. Never had an issue with it, other than the piece of shit force restarting my computer.
Speaking of Debian though, I was surprised I could update the whole system easily without it shitting itself. Granted I only use the CLI but it was smoother than expected.

>>110240543
yeah funni
>>110239855
>fresh install of Kubuntu 26.04
this is weird to me though, I just installed the bespoke for a friend's amd64 desktop pc, and it has worked perfectly - with wayland - for months.
Something smells bad here. Maybe ARM degeneracy or Nvidia's finger...

>>110239367
Longtime Debian user here. This is bigly true.

You add a bunch of custom repos or packages because so much shit is missing, then it all breaks when you want to update - it's toilet.

>>110240665
The inevitable franken-Debain bomb... though Ubuntu might be worse (as a derivative) with PPA's.

>>110240665
for example? I thought Debian had one of the biggest repos