https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2117460300735689069>use your favorite nitter clone before crying about the shitter linkIs it really a good idea to trust our tech sector, and our H-1B/immigration policies, to such a gigantic retard who clearly has no idea what he's talking about? And who chimps out when basic facts and logic are pointed out to him? This retard is looting our taxes for trillions of dollars in subsidies and contracts to enrich himself over a sci fi scam, right?
>>110239688Musk is completely right though. You don't cool things down in space the same way that you do in air, obviously, but it is MUCH MUCH easier. The resource you need to cool things down on Earth is electricity, and a LOT of it because you're trying to locally reverse entropy.Cooling in space is easier because the only resource you need is... space. And there's a LOT of it to go around. You can make radiators the size of a skyscraper and still not take up any meaningful amount of free space in LEO. And entropy works ON YOUR SIDE this time, 100% passively with no work on your part needed to radiate the heat away.
>>110239726Holy shit you're retarded, I hope I'm being baited. Go back to high school and take Physics 101 and learn the different ways of heat transfer. Then use your 2 braincells to figure out why heat management in space is such an important issue that takes up a lot of engineering time for satellites and such.
>>110239792>>110239688stop posting thirdie. it's pathetic.
>>110239688>And entropy works ON YOUR SIDE this time, 100% passively with no work on your part needed to radiate the heat awayYou still need to pump the heat into the radiator in practice since passive heat conduction / circulation will be too slow for large loads, like in this case AI compute.Also radiative cooling is way weaker than convective cooling in terms of power/area so you radiators need to be massive. Not a huge problem once it's deployed but will eat into launch costs a lot.Finally you need to keep the radiators in shadow with respects to the sun, behind the solar panels and ideally with respect to the earth. This means a very tight constraint for the geometry of the satellite, basically an extruded T shape with the extruded side pointing towards earth and the top pointing towards the sun.So it's plausible in principle but with not much operating margin and massive engineering costs. It's one of those, technically feasible but economically questionable things like putting solar panels on road surfaces... better put panels on the roofs first... and datacenters in places like Iceland.Explained in detail here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlQYU3m1e80
>>110239815hey elon go sit on the spikiest cactus you can find
Let's hear grok's thoughts on this.
>>110239842>sci fi bullshit to trick people into thinking he's going to make this happen, but it's actually infeasible. member hyperloop?that's his playbook, the only thing I wonder is if he gets high on his own supply and believes this stuff himself.In that recent Elisabeth Holmes interview it's revealed that she got to the point where she did think her contraptions did anything despite using a real bloodwork machine in another room.
>>110239898He can believe it all he wants as long as he spends his own money failing at this scamjeet abandonware. The problem is that parasite is taking our tax dollars and pension funds investments to subsidize his retardation.
space is cold though. you know when you watch a movie and they find a body in the space outside a ship or whatever and it's covered in ice? nowhere on earth is that cold
>>110239988hahaha, average musk fan reasoning right there.
>>110239988Can you explain the differences between conduction, convection, and radiation without using chat jeet-p-t? Explain it in your own words right now.
>>110240120Educate yourself nigger, no one owes you a lesson in physics
>>110239850
>>110239726You are a fucking idiot.
>>110240269Someone needs to get him to read this so he spends another month doing nothing but gimping his bot.
>>110240284It says he's right though.
>>110239688S4R, it is working beautifully for me. S4R, all my cousins are preparing to move into the USA to redeem more of your beautiful jobs.
>>110239792how does sun heat reach earth, mr. smarty pants?
>>110240287My bad, it seems my mind filters the beginning of every clanker output since it's basically always yes for normal questions.
>>110239688We need terahertz phonon light emitters for cooling down space craft, it works like this, heat radiates, as it drives phones within th elattic of a conductor, the surface cavity resonators vibrate to emitted invisible radiation to space.
>heat powers a turbine which powers a giant incandescent light bulbThere, I solved cooling in space.
>>110239688FElon is actually low iq and is soon going to prisonin other news water is wet
How many planets are made of ice vs planets made of fire?Checkmate libtards.
It works, the radiators just need to be really big. For example, radiators for 100MW data center would need about 160 times the surface area of the ISS radiators. The only reason this wasn't feasible before is because reusable rockets weren't a thing.
>>110239726There's clearly no flaws with this idea. Please invest all your money into it.
>>110240421>about 160 times the surface area of the ISS radiatorsFor reference, this would only be about 5x the size of a typical terrestrial data center of equivalent wattage.
>>110240468So is it perhaps more cost effective to just build them on earth?
>>110240297Redeem what jobs? Fat white women and AI are taking all of them.
>>110240304It doesn't. Sunlight reaches but he does not. The atmosphere gets heated up by the sunlight but no convection heat (the heat you feel from placing your hand over a hot stove, for example) EVER makes it to earth. Atmosphere in the planet spending along with it having a big ass ocean also helps keep us from being cooked alive because he can radiate heat to other locations. Space data centers are still a retarded concept because while you technically could radiate heat away, it would be incredibly inefficient because the practically nothing and the vacuum of space to steal the heat away. They could possibly pull some Avatar shit and just radiate it away via infrared heat but then the data centers would have to constantly thermal throttle because they be heating themselves up way too quickly. Stop assuming just because you have a ton of money you know what the fuck you're talking about. He's an idiot that grew up into money and thinks that alone earns him respect
>>110240702>Sunlight reaches but he does notbrrrrrrr WRONG! heat is light. learn about black-body radiation
>>110240317Please be AI because I would wreck that harder than the surgeon chopping away his boy bits.
>>110239688>I still thought that at least he is a good engineer (Teslas are great cars)poor guy doesn't know elon just bought the tesla car company and doesn't actually engineer anything himself
>>110240715Heat is a temperature change or temperature gradient. Not sure how what you said is supposed to disprove what I said. At least attempt to sound intelligent nigger.
>>110239688Just strap the data centers to a large mass like a space colony.And how you make a space colony? you make giant mono eyed green robots and build it with em.Trust me, you will be running AI in space in no time.
>>110240641For now.
>>110239726you can cool things on early the same way you do in space. if we were to only consider radiative cooling (the only kind you can do in space) it's easier on earth as while you can radiate out the same amount, you're absorbing less since you at least have the atmosphere blocking some sunlight, not to mention things on earth are in shade half the day and you can provide shade for the rest of the day, toowe don't rely much on radiative cooling on earth because we have far, far more effective means of cooling using air and water, which aren't available in space
>>110240727kek you have no idea what heat is. like i said, research what black-body radiation is
>>110240741Nothing I said was incorrect. Explain or I accept your concession. Space data centers are a stupid concept because it would take too fucking long to cool them off, or you would have to accept that your shit is going to be either constantly thermal throttled or have to be shittier hardware in order to not quickly overheat all the time. You are a knuckle dragging negro
>>110240746anon, i think you are overheating. LOL! remember, more surface area = more heat radiated out. just build big radiators! we have plenty of room up there
>>110240762So we should waste more time and effort creating a fuckload of surface area for each GPU in space (along with the high cost of getting the fucking things in space and then assembling them in the first place) as opposed to just doing it here? I'm not arguing whether or not it's possible I'm arguing the it's a stupid idea and unnecessary and hope perfectly inefficient compared to what we're already doing now.
>>110240771trust the plan
>>110239688>Step 1: glue a bunch of words that make investors happy with shit you need to research for your actual projects (the second stupidiest thing after game journalists)>Step 2: Get money>Step 3 :Whoops, it looks like it was impossible after all, but thanks for the money and improved thrusters and shit i needed for my global internet networkHalf of the musk projects are just direct investor bait scams.
>>110240731Awesome. What's your stock ticker? I want to give you 5 trillion dollars even though you haven't turned a profit and bleed money hand over fist. Just throw out more sci fi futurism every earnings call.>>110240876I think that's not how it works. It's basically Jews taking your pension funds, state tax accounts, and other goyim piggy banks and pumping Musk's Enron-tier scam stock up in exchange for enriching themselves and keeping Jeetlon from sperging out about Jews/Israel. Retail doesn't have enough money or power to manipulate stock like Tesla is manipulated.
>>110240762>just put a radiator the size of Texas in space, it's not rocket science
>>110240771The point is that it will be cheaper to do it in space once Starship launches reach a certain cost threshold.
doing AI training in space would be absolutely retarded yes.But serving uncensored web content globally could have a use, what's the laws about hosting shit in space?
>>110241039Like how the Hyperloop was going to be cheaper that building more airports or trains or even expanding infrastructure projects? Just give all our money to Jeetlon Musk!!!
if only there was some place with better cooling then space
>>110241043Jews think their laws upon the goyim apply all over the universe.
>>110241043companies care way more about reputation than what is technically allowed
>>110241057Let they come, with their golems and white devils
>>110239688>insulator (bad for data centers)ai slop ^^^herbs
>>110239688Heat isn't the issue. Cost and being able to physically access them completely kill the concept just like >>110241056. Otherwise they'd just build them in Greenland too
Any of you guys ever heard of heat pumps or peltier coolers? heat dissipation scaling to T^4 is insane.If you double the temp your radiator is at your heat dissipation increases 16x, ie 16x reduction in radiator mass.So its all an optimization of the power needed to run the cooling loop, the mass of the solar panels to generate said power, and the mass of the cooling system.A relatively simple system would be to use a peltier heat pump stack to move the heat away from the compute into the cooling loop, stepping up the temp of the loop and decoupling it from the temp of the compute.
>>110239792Go ahead and try to explain a single thing that was wrong, or keep crying until the space datacenters become self aware and skynet us.
>>110241165Ask grok to calculate what size radiators you would need in space to get rid of heat for even a small data center, you absolute mongoloid. /g/ shits on reddit for being full of poos but these boards are the same, full of I HECKIN LOVE BASEDENCE retards who never took a physics class in their lives.
>>110241139Yeah it's why there's been research on graphite radiators
>>110241212>b-but your radiator has to be really really big!Ok, it's big. what's the problem again?
>>110240317that's a man
>>110241139peltier coolers are grossly inefficient - they add a huge amount of additional heat
the only reason anyone would ever want to put compute in space is so you cant firebomb it when you realize twhat theyre doing to you
>>110239988>when you watch a movie and they find a body in the space outside a ship or whatever and it's covered in ice
I've learned the science. I've discovered the souls is real. What comes next?
>>110239688Even assuming that datacenters in space are possible: isn't it a pain in the ass to then do maintenance on them? Like how do they replace the GPUs that are going to burn due to extremely high usage? Do they literally send an astronaut to live there in the datacenter? Genuine question.
>>110239816>technically feasible but economically questionable things like putting solar panels on road surfacesthat was a literal scam. if this has the same practical feasibility as that then it is also a scam
>>110241332This. This is the ONLY reason.
>>110241365it’s not supposed to be real, it’s just supposed to make investors go “woah this is like the future”
>>110241365the same thing we do with all the communications satellites that are up there nownothing, because you don't care about hardware the same way you would in datacentersdatacenters have limited space, carefully crafted to have the smallest distance between nodes/processing/storageit's all just a simple math problem when you put them in orbitcost to build the sat + launch cost < revenue generatedfactor in energy savings, land/building/tax costs savings and reliability or expected lifespan
>>110241365>Even assuming that isp's in space are possible: isn't it a pain in the ass to then do maintenance on them? Like how do they replace the commsats that are going to burn due to extremely high usage? Do they literally send an astronaut to live there in the satellites? Genuine question.
>>110241409Not even remotely the same thing
>>110241409You know op is a shill, right? People from here don't need to explain what an insulator is. You're assumed to have passed 5th grade science.
>>110241268Really big in this case means the size of Texas, you stupid 45 IQ inbred hindpoo retard. Even if we could make something that big, which nation is going to agree to a Texas sized metal hailstorm falling over their entire nation when that thing inevitably comes down?I'm sick of you lazy /g/eets talking about things where they haven't even done basic reading to understand what the problem is, but still having strong opinions because they think the universe owes them a Star Wars future.
>>110241423you are off by so many orders of magnitude it's laughable that you even deign to opine on the subjecta radiator the size of texas would cool all the data centers currently on earth hundreds of times over if they were all together in spacehave you ever even had an original thought in your head in your entire life or does everything come down to space man bad for you? or am I getting mega baited?
>>110241486You are replying to bait, anon
>>110240317carthaginian horror beyond comprehension
>>110240317>the surface cavity resonators vibrate to emitted invisible radiation to space.what the fuck are you talking about. in a vacuum, ie in space, there's nothing for the resonators to vibrate against, and there's no medium to conduct the phonons. it would buzz and buzz without transferring a single joule.
>>110239688Africans are retarded. Who knew.
I NEES WEED!
>>110239726> The resource you need to cool things down on Earth is electricity, and a LOT of it because you're trying to locally reverse entropy.The fuck am I reading?
>>110239726>Musk is completely right thoughlol> What is the Sun?lmao>datacenters>in LEOmonkeys at typewriters etc.
>>110242333gibberish from an absolute fucking idiot
>>110239726>You can make radiators the size of a skyscraperthis argument falls apart once you think about launching a skyscraper into orbit i.e. fully thinking things through not just getting a retarded gotcha.
>>110242365Launching radiators or giant solar panels into space is nothing new, and it's always done the same way: folded in and then folded out at the target location.
>>110239688why not just keep the data centers on the moonmoon is cold, right?
>>110239726You still need heat pumps and coolant to move the heat to the radiators. Repairing leaks in space is a nightmare. On earth you have an infinite supply of coolant all around you.
>>110240269Remember grok is fuck-trained to agree with Musk and fellate him.
>build data center in space>put in orbit opposite the sun so it's always cold>FREE infinite compute because you don't have to pay for cooling or airflowIt's that shrimple. Musk is a genius and you are all retarded. No wonder you're poor and he's rich.
>>110240328>heat powers a turbineWhere are you getting the water for that, poindexter?
>>110240387question: are there any planets made out of chocoand also: how far away are we from such a planet
>>110240657And other vodka-fueled fantasies the glavset needs you to believe.
>put turbine in front of the moon as it travels in orbit>moon's momentum pushes the turbine for near infinite energy>data center powered for free foreverAlready a solved issue
The biggest problem would be maintenance, are you going to send an astronaut to one of those centers every time something goes wrong?
>>110242739That's what autonomous AI robots are for.
>>110241212>Ask grok to calculate what size radiators you would need in space to get rid of heat for even a small data centerIt's not that big. About 5x the size of the data center itself (in volume taken up, not mass).
>>110242739what maintenance? things break on earth due to gravityno gravity, no need for maintenance, especially with only on chip design
>>110239688Maybe he knows something you don't, huh? Also imagine complaining about immigration when your leftoid side supports open borders. Who are you trying to fool here, moron?
>>110239726how the fuck would you get it up there? not just whether you could do it but the resources that it'd take to do it could build 5x more data centers on earth that can disperse heat through radiation and all the other more efficient ways an atmosphere allows. so you must value a space data center many times more than one on the ground that is easier to maintain and scale. to what end?
Who cares about this loser? Democrats won. He's going to jail. It's genuinely over.
>>110242333well you're trying to move a (sub-)system from a high energy state to a low energy state.he's still a fucking idiot, mind.
good morning sirs I am happily looking for to working space x america hahaha. please to when we are meeting and sharing biryani. :)
>>110243088>how the fuck would you get it up there?It would be about 50 Starship launches per 100MW.
Indeed, cooling have never EVER been an issue with space stations because space is cold :)
> le space is an insulatorA vacous statement.Everyone knows that satellites in space will be cooled by radiators. Starlink constellation already continuously consumes and dissipates approximately 80 to 100 MW of electrical power. It seems like efficient satellite cooling by radiators is already a solved problem.
elon's vision for the future is so ugly and disgusting, only retards want a future full of soulless techslop blocking out the sun and enclosing the earth like a prison
You can use supra conductors in chips at 3 degrees kelvin in space. These chips will produce much less electron friction / heat and the future of chips will go from silicon to diamond which is even more resistant to radiation. But Elon is pretty autistic in communication.
>>110243259hes still a moderateif i get the chance im nuking the fuck out of this shithole from the moon
>>110243349ive done some math a while ago, and his idea is probably feasibleone could do some fancy shit like using heat pumps to maximize radiator temps
>>110243259if you're so desperate to live the cave man life we'll have full dive VR for you, there's no reason to hold the rest of us back
>>110241165Respect the 2.7K sink point — yes, you don't burn electricity reversing entropy like on Earth. But "radiators the size of a skyscraper and it doesn't matter" is exactly where it breaks, math:Radiative cooling is capped by Stefan-Boltzmann: P = εσA(T4−T04). A 300K radiator to deep space tops out at ~400 W/m2. That's the ceiling, not "a lot."So your "skyscraper" radiator (5000 m2) at 300K radiates only ~2 MW — and weighs ~40t dead. Vacuum is necessary, it's not the resource you save. In LEO the scarce resource is launch mass, $/kg. You still need material to build the radiator.This is the thread's actual topic: data centers. A 1 GW facility needs ~2.4 km2 of radiator (~19,000t) — bigger than the building itself. Which is why nobody does orbital data centers. "Make it bigger and it doesn't matter" is precisely the intuition that fails: area = mass = cost, with a hard cap on W/m2.The only thing you nailed: radiative cooling IS passive. Passive ≠ free capacity. You can only dump ~400 W/m2. Want more? Crank the radiator hotter — now you're managing thermal stress and material limits, back to square one.
>>110243930You were right to push back on that
>>110241332Can we engineer a way to make it so any retard can destroy satellites with extremely limited resources?
>>110244030ask grok
>>110239688All the arguments against it being possible are terrible, pretending the state of the art used for normal satellites or ISS (neither of which fly in dusk dawn orbit) has anything to do with the technology you'd actually use in this application.The PV can be >10x as light as the state of the art, the radiators >100x. For normal satellites (and ISS) there is little reason to put in that level of engineering with the high chance of operational failure. If it only saves a couple percent on weight of the total satellite, it simply doesn't make sense.Space datacenters would have much higher power densities and SpaceX works on a different scale. They can spend billions and send dozens or even hundreds of prototypes in actual orbit for this and it does make sense to optimise the weight on PV/radiators to that extent.
>>110243088These things we've been building since the 50s called rockets.
>>110244164Who's we? Are you a rocket engineer?
>>110239726How do you keep your radiator the size of a skyscraper in stable orbit for years? How do you power the computers inside your radiator the size of a skyscraper in space?
>>110243930Most of the area of the radiator will be a foils. Reflectors for insulation on the backside, with some vacuum in between, composite polymide barrier films with channels in them for heat pipes (pump assisted) HOPG heatspreader etc. The total thickness of material for the radiator will likely be under a mm.Once you abandon ammonia for the proper refrigerant, you get a lot better options. The PV films can get a lot thinner than ROSA uses too.
>>110244340Good thing the whole thing experiences micro-Newtons.Apart from rigidity, you can also spin things to keep them in tension. Though since the PV and radiators will be at a 90 degree angle, that's going to make power transfer a bit annoying (the GPU's will be on the radiator, since electricity transports easier than heat).
>>110244379>micro-NewtonsShit adds up.
>>110244343>with some vacuum in betweenso it completely negates all the heat transfer to the radiators, thus requiring vastly more space on top of the already huge space requirements. The more you twist it, the more it becomes impossible to even build it at current Earth tech levels. You’d now possibly require supranational cooperation on a level we haven’t seen yet (not to build it, but just to get stuff into orbit) just to cool ONE datacenter.It’s simply not feasible right now.
>>110243802if you're so desperate to obliterate all life then you will simply have to be treated like the insane person you are
>>110242682I was checking my laptop heat pumo and changing its coolant just now when the same consideration came onto my mind.
>>110244149>The PV can be >10x as light as the state of the art, the radiators >100x>can beNobody gives a shit about theoretical possibilities. Either it has a engineering solution that's also mass manufacturable or it's a scifi pipedream.
>>110239726holy fucking moron
>>110241356Perfecting the soul.
>>110241043>he thinks data centers in space are necessary for thatImagine having never heard of proxies, VPNs and Tor.
>>110239688musk is right tho
>>110239688>LOOK EVERYONE I KNOW THAT YOU CAN ONLY TRANSFER HEAT THROUGH RADIATION IN SPACE, THE SAME FACTOID EVERY OTHER MIDDLE SCHOOLER KNOWS. I MUST BE SMARTER THAN SPACEX ENGINEERS Funny how the left loves to point out how a little bit of knowledge can be a bad thing when it came to physicists chiming in on climate change and COVID
>>110244835>history stops today, bigots>nothing new will ever exist>nothing can ever be built againWhen did this board get so low IQ?
>>110246439>>history stops today, bigots>>nothing new will ever exist>>nothing can ever be built againYes.
>>110239688Just going off memory here>wrong about hyperloop>wrong about when self driving will be ready>wrong about cybertruck>wrong about Boring company/traffic diverted underground>wrong about Trump/politics>wrong about Indians/poos and H-1B>wrong about the JewsIt would be easier to find instances where he was actually right on something that was an original thought instead of him trying to steal credit for someone else's ideas. So yes, he's wrong on space data centers, and it's yet another muskrat scam. I hope dems nationalize his companies and deport his ass back to Africa.
>>110239792>>110240280>how to spot idiots that never went to high schoolyes moron we can literally radiate thermal energy OUTSIDE BECAUSE THERE ISNT A MEDIUM TO TRANSFERconvection doesnt happen in spacethermality is passivecooling is directly tied to size as stefan boltzmann law statesall you have to do is to face radiators away from the sun thats itthats fucking it
>>110246809>cooling is directly tied to size as stefan boltzmann law statesDid you see the exponent near the size in that formula, Ratjesh? Do you understand the implications of that?
>>110247068no i just randomly stated a very specific law without checking what do you think?we already have starcloud 1 in orbit
>>110246439Progress is certainly possible and happens all the time, just not under a psychopathic grifter financier who claims to invent stuff but has never done so.Innovation happens when academia does fundamental research, governments fund state owned infrastructure and engineers get job security.None of this is true for any of Musk's companies.
>>110247068>>110247111>>110246809Ah yes let's do passive cooling in the one place where transport is prohibitively expensive.>we can literally radiate thermal energy OUTSIDE BECAUSE THERE ISNT A MEDIUM TO TRANSFERSo can we, here on earth, even more effectively because there is air to conduct to.Try to think for a second why AI datacenters "waste water" and make noise when they could just use big heatsinks.>starcloud 1>$2.5M>1x h100 GPU>Can't run 98-99% of the time due to thermal throttlingGreat example of the constraints.
