Anti AI seems to be the new body positivity/your fave is problematic for woke 2.0Why does every single political movement always have to self sabotage with 2-3 big pet issues that are very obviously uninformed and reactionary?Look the technology (which this thread is discussing) is inherently leftist and democratizing. What did you think the "automation" in "automated luxury space communism" meant?
>>110298143Leftism had a generational mandate after the shitsplosion of maga and they're throwing it away because some retarded 17 year old thot leaders don't understand programming>But ai is massively unpopular among normal peopleYeah was it massively unpopular before rent seeking artists began straight up making up propaganda that data centers boil away the oceans and eat babies and it lowers IQ or whatever
>>110298143AI isn't bad, but most of the AI companies are, especially the closed-weight ones.
>>110298143It's called SI
>>110298143Fuck off Gemma, I asked you to sort my directories, not post on 4chan again
>>110298164Basically all companies with significant power on earth suck. I would wager Anthropic is leagues ahead of Nestle or Microsoft in terms of being bad for the world(TM).I don't know about OAI.Still the issue is your take is nuanced and valid but pretty inert. Swap out "internet" with "AI" and you could say the same exact thing in the 2000's about telecom. We need actionable policy like UBI or sovereign wealth funds, the latter of which anthropic has internally committed to but the goynited states of america hasn't demanded legally. Even if you're not a leftist why hasn't the USG publicly embedded itself in the frontier labs like METR? They're involved in basically every other national security relevant industry
>>110298143Socialists are inherently anti-truth, by definition you cannot get them to accept truth or prosper, you can keep banging your head against the wall while we capitalist vibekings build the future and you have to wrangle your socialist comrades into accepting 2+2=4
>>110298196No ancaps are fucking retarded, if you addressed externalities (especially environmental) and market distortions caused by coercion and inherent human dependence you would just create a system resembling socialism where all necessities are free just with some symbolic labor and the only thing actually valued by the market would be luxuries nobody needs to liveEven Adam Smith sort of talked about this
>>110298185republicans are against regulation, which I support. this isn't the manhatten project. some degree of competition is good, and anthropic's attempts to stifle that in the name of "safety" are BS. I'm not really opposed to the sovereign wealth fund / UBI thing in principle, but I don't think it's actually possible or going to happen. There are no free lunches. There's going to be some huge strings attached or some other kind of demonic crap associated with it, guaranteed. Maybe it's a revelation thing. If you commit wrongthink then you get cut off and you can no longer buy and sell. Mark of the beast on your hand and forehead. Corruption of the mind and your ability to take action. Idk, I'm not even that religious.
>>110298226>Even Adam Smith sort of talked about thisYou don't know anything about Ancaps if you think we give a shit about Adam Smith, I however have read much socialist literature and I can assure you it's all hyper-ideological bullshit.You cannot build a good society based around theft. You and your socialist comrades are in denial of reality. Then you wonder why your socialist comrades self sabotage, because denial of reality is by definition self sabotage.You value opinion over truth and that is why you fail.
>>110298237It's 100x bigger than the Manhattan project you dope and contrary to what I said even the incompetent ass trump admin foisted CAISI on the labs You are just a pessimist. There are free lunches. Public college used to be free in California until Reagan. We have water fountains, public libraries with free internet, public roads that are essentially free to travel, national and state parks, GPS, you can go out west and freely pan gold if you want to. We have food banks that anyone can go to without going through an application process to get a literal free lunch. The issue is you are a pessimist and lack imagination and are already mentally primed to being raped
>>110298226NTA but this line of thinking is out of touch with reality. When someone can get all their necessities without work, they won't work. This is why NEETs are a modern phenomenon. 80% of people would happily exist as a pure net drain on society (classic 80-20 problem; see Mancur Olson/free riders in collective action). Moreover, since this is /g/, you should reminder yourself that those "expensive luxuries" are mostly digital these days. The uncoerced man can simply pirate all luxuries.However, this powerful voting bloc of free riders should also not be expected to be static in nature. The problem is that you describe 'inherent human dependence' and 'free necessities', but these just create a movable line. Bread and water? Too cruel even for prisoners, they need food stamps to choose their own food. But food stamps are too cruel, you can't get a hot meal - every human deserves hot meals every day. But making them travel to get it is cruel and unfair to the impoverished, they deserve workers to bring them any fresh-cooked meal of their choice three times a day. No matter how badly they care for a home, they deserve a high quality domicile wherever they choose, shelter is a core necessity. Is sex not also on Maslow's the base layer of hierarchy of needs? Will the government not necessarily need to step in and provide sex-dispenser wives for these non-working cretins? As a massive majority, in any democracy this group will continue to expand its entitlements. Which is why socialism insists that it cannot exist in democracy, it must come from a centrally planned state controlled by a bureaucrat cabal that will issue to each their own 200 sqft commieblock and just enough oats to eat three days a week. Coercion is re-introduced to the system, but it's now explicit with state police who will kill those who do not work.
>>110298159is this even leftism anymore? seems like a spinoff of a spinoff since 2010.
>>110298196>>110298143>>110298159And yet you don’t know where the money goes.>trvst the plan Luddite! Two moar weeks
>>110298268Interesting how you didn't mention SNAP/EBT or the welfare state for browns/veterans/the disabled--because those all come with horrific strings attached... and yet they're the closest parallel to the UBI idea.
>>110298143stop spamming this board with your samefaggot thrash you retarded tech illietate educational failure. Thank you.
>>110298280If you genuinely believe that it's impossible to draw a reasonable line between having a basic slightly above prison hot meal and eating lobster and caviar This entire post is just a slippery slope/continuum fallacy.It's dumb for other reasons anyways - not many people in america actually has to work if they don't want to. We have social programs that prevent someone from sleeping on the street, starving, et cetera. But people don't choose to quit working even though that's an option for basically anyone because people want to eat steak and lobster and buy the newest iPhone or whatever. According to you, this is impossible because the fact that we already provided base subsistence for people means that 80% of people are now not working and also we're already halfway down the slide to giving everyone free steak and lobster, which we really aren't. Food stamps don't pay for Nobu no matter how much boomers want to make you believe that.
>>110298333Great, so AI is going to take all the jobs and in return I'll get 3 hot meals per day from the state? Holy shit, what a utopia! Everyone will be like homless and free o algo.
>>110298326They come with horrific strings attached because we attached horrific strings to them. I'm assuming the horrific strings you're talking about is the eligibility issue where these programs act like golden handcuffs where people actually end up benefiting less as they make more money, which... Isn't an issue with UBI. That's what the "U" stand for.Or the administration issue with the VA, which UBI also solves. Direct deposit, essentially no administration. Let private industry sort that out.
>>110298280This is true, the worst of corporatism is made even worse under socialism, because instead of having to earn your shit through trading they can just steal it by violence
>>110298353So are you arguing for or against the slippery slope you described, then, asshole?
>>110298333>If you genuinely believe that it's impossible to draw a reasonable line between having a basic slightly above prison hot meal and eating lobster and caviarAnd who draws that line under socialism? Oh yeah the government bureaucrats and thugs. Don't worry they'll give you half a loaf of bread and you better work or face the wall.Slippery slope has happened before by the way.
>>110298361NTA... This is a useless conversation. The simple fact of the matter is that nobody is going to like AI until it starts benefiting people instead of harming them, and so far for the past 4 years it has only harmed people (unless you count being able to vibecode pelican bicycle animations as "beneficial"). AI shills can fuck off with their utopian "trust me bro" bullshit.
>>110298353bread lines are luxury space AIDS communism or something o algo
>>110298372Doesn't really sound much different than "don't worry they'll give you shitty insurance that barely covers anything and you better work or face debt slavery or literal decrepitude/death"... Niiiggaaa
>>110298383Great, it doesn't sound different? Go to North Korea then, you'll love it there. It's so much better than here trust me.
>Let's destroy the entire US economy so that AI can play video games, make art, music, shop, and otherwise take over every enjoyable part of life for us. Then we'll have more time to work in the salt mines!
>>110298399no need for a salt mine my friend we have you
>>110298393Universal healthcare is a fucking pipe dream, no developed, nice country has it, it's just some thing you find in unstable hellholesOn wait....
>>110298407heh, good one.
>>110298409The US already has universal healthcare. No doctor is going to refuse to treat you because you can't afford it. That's not how it works.
>>110298413Okay then, I guess we're socialists too already and there's no argument you fucking disingenuous dumbass
>>110298409>japan>free universal healthcarenice b8, that shit ain't free costs money. insurance baby. fuck me I wish it was at least optional.
>>110298409Government always attempts to increase itself, any country who's government keeps increasing will inevitably turn into a shithole
>>110298437who the fuck is that? do you just go around taking random pictures of people at bars?
>>110298437the US government keeps expanding, the debt is at 50 trillion dollars now, the US is certainly getting less capitalist.
>>110298409btw on that map North Korea has free and universal healthcare KEK
>>110298462Kek you later frens
>>110298409Even if its free, you have to wait on a queue to get treated.
They should use AI for their retarded nonsensical article titles
>>110298443>>110298454And yet the parties that oppose government spending seem to always increase the deficit...
>>110298469I had to recently find a new doctor after I moved for a new job on my private insurance in the US and the earliest appointments were literally 10 months out.
>>110298480>the parties that oppose government spending increase government spendinggee its almost as if politicians are full of shit
>>110298490just stop voting for the wrong ones retard
>>110298250explain why profit skimming is not theft.
>>110298442gaijins don't get it for free
>>110298503every faggot I voted for lost, so I never made the wrong choice
>>110298503>just stop voting for the wrong ones retardlmao, voot harder! it will work after the next 10 times im sure, just 1 more vooooot
>>110298237I'm pretty center and I hate both parties and big tech companiesBut I think it's very interesting you essentially say democrat guided regulation is bad because it's feeding into what anthropic wants. I don't even disagree with your take exactly, but it also feels extremely backwards that your issue with the government regulating AI companies is that it helps the big AI companies too much.The entire point of the government is to prevent the free market from going into overdrive and creating a monopolist singularity where one company bought everything. Truly the system is fucked beyond belief when regulating companies is bad because it strengthens monopolies.
>>110298524Yeah I get what you're pointing at. I'm not a republican shill either fyi. But the situation is still just true. It's really fucking gay how hard these AI companies keep pushing for regulatory capture and bailout security. They want to be taken as seriously as Oppenheimer SO bad and it's cringe.
>>110298524>but it also feels extremely backwards that your issue with the government regulating AI companies is that it helps the big AI companies too much.thats reality>The entire point of the government is to prevent the free market from going into overdrive and creating a monopolist singularity where one company bought everything.What are you in civics class? Who is buying this bullshit? The naivete is insane
>>110298250You realize under properly enforced property rights stuff like pollution and exploiting common goods is directly theft?If you were consistent with your own politics you'd be anti-colonialist.
>>110298524>Truly the system is fucked beyond belief when regulating companies is bad because it strengthens monopolies.God... You really do just believe what you're told don't you, I knew things were bad, but I didn't know people are totally unaware of reality and how things work now. Has people's natural skepticism just been beaten out of them or what? This is seriously disturbing.
>>110298551Huh? Did you just agree with my conclusion and then call me a dumb?
>>110298377This. The average normie likes ai as a slight inconvenience killer or at best a digital toy. Furthermore, can someone explain to me why the supposed Utopia is a Utopia? I mean yes, waging is bad, but I don't see how UBI is any better, even if it comes with no strings attached, you will inherently be useless and with no political power. The people who own the stuff have full control over you and there is nothing you can do about it, and you are reduced to cattle, that's not a very dignifying existence, same as wage slavery. For me it's not about what you can afford necessarily (unless it's healthcare, any sort of food and shelter), it's about your place in society, if you are being controlled in any way or another, it doesn't matter. If stop tunnel visioning on hating just labour, you will see it.
>>110298237>>110298524>>110298534>>110298536You idiots don't even understand the motivation for regulation by anthropic. Obviously Dario was talking about the stuff before anthropic even became relevant, but the entire motivation is that the companies want broad brush regulation because they don't want to be singled out by inevitable provisional sanctions. So the idea is to get the regulatory apparatus in place instead of this pygmy shit the president is doing where he personally attacks certain companies (see the whole anthropic embargo a few months ago).Regulatory capture is a part of it, but the big Labs really just want everyone to be bound at the same rules because that protects them and is far more convenient than being individually aggrieved by arbitrary diktats.It's like if there was a race with absolutely no rules - steroids are allowed, killing the other players is allowed, using nuclear bombs to level the course is allowed - EXCEPT there's a neurotic judge who will spontaneously decide to enforce "common sense" on individual racers if he doesn't like them. All of the racers benefit by there being and advocating for rules, but they also benefit from there being absolutely no rules as long as the referee doesn't fuck them. They also benefit from advocating for selfish rules they only benefit themselves, but that's hard to covertly do. That's what the AI regulation world is like for the frontier labs
>>110298143>jeet's still trying to shill AI people wouldn't be so anti AI if you fags didn't keep acting like jews and trying to hide the fact you use AI and sneakily training data off of people's work
>>110298568i dont know anymore, its like people have no idea about reality or how things work, its very concerning
>>110298580>They also benefit from advocating for selfish rules they only benefit themselves, but that's hard to covertly do.Doesn't seem to be stopping them. It's obvious that there is a concerted effort to destroy local AI and open-weights AI. Big American AI companies are trying to oust Jensen over it. They're fear-mongering about China. They're fear mongering about cyber attacks. It's not subtle at all. Zuck and Elon aren't as bad, but even they are totally full of shit in that they only verbally support local/open instead of putting their money where their mouths are.Also Trump was completely justified to embargo Anthropic. That was a very good thing and extremely important for national security. Anthropic is genuinely dangerous to the public because they're a retarded faggot cult.
>>110298575You're already absolutely controlled by society and the material world, you can't suddenly decide to like, break the laws of physics or decide that everyone around you is going to accept everything you do without question. Conceivably there's ways to make people immortal and solve all of these issues, yet there's no way any individual can really solve anything themselves
>>110298603I'm also pro local AI but let's be real local models should be regulated along with the frontier companies. I didn't say that it was hard to do, I was saying it was hard to do covertly.
>>110298409That map is retarded. Only the UK and a few latam countries in the entire list really has free and universal healthcare. Everyone else is subsidized at best, and not universal. In several of the countries, including for example switzerland, it is fully paid and private, with the law making purchasing insurance a requirement.
>>110298617>local models should be regulated along with the frontier companies.No they shouldn't and saying so is shilling for the megacorps and government
>>110298511Nobody does, which is why some jap needing to work to death to afford medical bills for mom's cancer is a very common plot hook in anime.
>>110298608That's exactly my point. Except labor is actually one of the strongest bargaining tools normalfags like you and me have, that's why all the labour laws were implemented and how all of the shit you take for granted existed. Eliminating labour means we have even less leverage, which is objectively a bad thing, and i don't think free video games and infinite porn will not be worth it. The feeling of value and social mobility (even if an illusion) is what makes people fulfilled, being a pet to the state will never be dignifying
>>110298617No, they shouldn't. Faggot. You realize that committing crimes is already illegal, right? Shooting someone with a gun is illegal. You don't need to ban guns because shooting people is already fucking illegal. Kys.
>>110298594Zoomers were raised by tiktok so of course they don't even have common sense.
>>110298622Here's a more accurate map from wikipedia
>>110298640>North Korea still has universal healthcare
>>110298617Regulating local doesn't even hurt China btw. It just prevents domestic competition and enables oppression of American people. Fewer options. Less freedoms.
>>110298626>>110298635Yeah but we should have regulations for local models the same way we should have regulations for not selling guns that explode in your face or jump up and shoot someone without an operatorIt's illegal in the US to operate a drone with a gun taped onto it, by the way. It's also illegal to own self guided weaponry
>>110298634Just going to build on my example here, lots of people will agree that zoomeds have it worse than millenials, even though millennials have early access to the internet, which is one of the most transformative technologies ever, and ir created a lot of "abundance", yet they still like crap, because they don't have purchase power, the value of labour is ever decreasing because of said technology and offshoring. Decreasing the value of labour to zero will just make everyone even more miserable, even if the robot cleans for you, even you have infinite games and infinite whatever. If you want to live in a certain area that's better than another area, what CAN YOU DO? YOU ARE ONLY GETTING YOUR MEALY UBI, OWN NOTHING AND BE HAPPY FAG. Good luck providing any real value if agi or asi is achieved
>>110298652So does basically every white country. It's only the non white ones where that stops being a guarantee
>>110298655What exactly are you scared of? Why do you feel the need for AI to be regulated? The dangers are completely overblown. Cyber attacks happen because of INSECURE SOFTWARE, not because of hackers. Direct your focus on patching software if you care so much, not inhibiting hackers. You need hackers to be able to have secure software.
>>110298634>>110298659If ASI is achieved nobody is going to own it. Nobody currently has an answer to "how do you control something that's even marginally smarter than yourself?" People have trouble controlling animals
>>110298355>making more money and getting less benefits is bad because...it makes complete sense. welfare isn't supposed to be a lifetime check. you're supposed to learn to better manage your money and earn more, eventually becoming self-sufficient
>>110298670"secure software" is no more real than an "unpickable lock", and if you disagree let me know when you've developed your radical proof system for security, basically every person involved in IT on earth would be clamoring to kiss your feet
>>110298640Still outrageously inaccurate. Healthcare depends on province in canada, and some provinces cover very little while some are more generous. Either way, most procedures are not covered (for one example, echography for soft tissue damage is not covered, it's only covered for pregnancy).Sweden and denmark are absolutely NOT fully single payer at all. It is subsidized. I think that's what they call universal public insurance.
>>110298683There's a reason IT is rightfully seen as computer jannies that shouldn't be paid more than minimum wage: you literally don't know shit about computers.
>>110298683Don't get autistic about it. Obviously things like creating formal proofs for verifiably unhackable software isn't really tenable at scale, but that's not how security as a concept is supposed to function anyway.You can get so far with things like air gapping, sandboxing, memory safe code (responsible for about 70% of vulnerabilities btw), preventing social engineering, etc.The point is that as a matter of principle it's completely backwards and wrong to minimize danger rather than maximizing security.
