Why did it become so widespread and popular, if it's shite?No alternatives at the time?
>>110320672Maybe it isn't as shit as you think it is.
>>110320672podmankubernetes for clusters
I just have a dedicated server and install things on it.No idea why i would need docker as a layer in between.When there is a vulnerability, it seems to be extra hassle to update the containers AND the system below it, rather than just the system.The docker salsemen didn't manage to convince me.
>>110320672how is it shit exactly? it's basically just a rootfs+some package+scripts to run itself, hell i bet you could replace this shit with only chroot and some bash scripting, some program thats hardcoded to check pid 1 might complain or refuse to run, but workaround exists.you're just angy because you got filtered.
>>110320672a lot of programmers like things to be as complicated as possible
>>110320796
>>110321023This. It's usually the stupid ones that like complexity.
>>110320993>it's basically just a rootfs+some package+scripts to run itselfwrong
>>110321056Containers are a stopgap measure against bad software engineering practices.>you have version 2.1.1 and you need at least 2.2.4Stop running outdated software>I'm running an old CentOS distribution from 2014Stop running outdated software>server only has Python 3.5Stop running outdated software>inb4 but I can't update because muh stabilityHave a proper testing suite to not make updates a coin flip. Developers should stop rolling out garbage hoping people would get a hotfix next hour.
>>110321056In addition to this, you also get the benefit of isolation so a breakage or fuckup with one of the services is usually going to be limited to its own container and you do not need to worry about it causing damage to the host system or interfering with other services.I do agree that containers are sometimes overused, there is certainly a place for just installing some shit directly on your system.
>>110321085retard
>>110320672guix solves this btw
>>110321056>its easier to deploya single apt-get upgrade is easier than 100 times docker compose...
>>110321117>a breakage or fuckup with one of the services is usually going to be limited to its own container and you do not need to worry about it causing damage to the host systemIf your container runs a service that connects to another containers database and it has database access... what do you gain with this?>dear customers, we got hacked, all your data leaked and our servers are part of a botnet now>BUT it is running in a container so the host system of the server itself isn't affected, rejoice!!!
>>110320672> No alternatives at the time?Pretty much. It was first on the scene to do what it did and gained traction fast. Then once enough people start using something there's a lot of inertia to switch to something else even if that something else is better.
>>110321108your suggested tight coupling of everything is bad engineering
>works on my machine>ship my machineSimple as.
>>110321307what did it do that vagrant didn't do before?
Podman is pretty good.It even has docker compatible commands for the newfags. Podman is maybe nu-redhat's only useful contribution to the gnu/linux space in the past few years.
>>110321341Docker was the full application stack, Vagrant was the entire server image which then needed some other third-party tools to install and configure your app inside once it was running. Also Docker containers spun-up in seconds while Vagrant VM's would be like booting a real physical machine and take minutes. Then there was the centralised Dock repo to make sharing images quick and easy.
>>110321359but nu-redhat dumped podmanhttps://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-contribute-comprehensive-container-tools-collection-cloud-native-computing-foundation>November 14, 2024>Today, we’re pleased to help drive cloud-native evolution further into the next-generation of IT with our intent to contribute a comprehensive set of container tools to the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF), including bootc, Buildah, Composefs, Podman, Podman Desktop and Skopeo.
>>110321108In theory, sure, everyone should run up-to-date software.In practice, more than half of companies and organizations in the real world, private or public, run at least a piece of outdated software in some form or another.It costs money and/or takes time to upgrade software and make sure everything run correctly, and people don't like to spend money or time on this when it works fine (until it doesn't), especially managers and executives who only care about short-term profit margins.
>>110321397>It costs money and/or takes time to upgrade softwareI thought AI solved this
>>110320672I never liked docker or any kind of container distribution since they are by design not to be fucked with. I tried it briefly only to find I couldn't install my CA cert into a container without manually rebuilding the container myself. It's just far easier to spin up a small linux instance on esxi to run that one task. 1GB of ram and one core is all it needs. On an old laptop you can fit dozens of these and have no issues. Further backups are piss easy since you just backup the whole instance and if you think you or an update might fuck it up, snapshot it first and rollback if needed.
>>110321502Sure, for personal use that's fine. But at the Enterprise level like when you need 100s or 1000s of instances and rapid dynamic auto-scaling the benefits of containers managed by something like K8s is hard to beat.
>>110321502>without manually rebuilding the containerThat's one of the main issues for me, when I work with it. It's so stupid.
>>110321405You underestimate how old some infrastructure can be. I vibecode with Deepseek and I'm impressed with it, but I doubt it could deal with the complex maze of scripts invoking depreciated proprietary Oracle products running on RHEL 4 I had to maintain in a past life.
>>110320672writing systemd service files is too complicated
>>110321541That's just a badly setup container. Thinks like keys, passwords, and certs should be passed as environment variables or pulled from a (secure) repository.
>>110320672it's like wondering why young people started talking like niggers.
>>110321502Adding as certificate should be as easy asFROM base-image:latestCOPY your.cert /use/share/certificate.certOn your dockerfile.yml, then a rebuild should just take a minute
>>110321548That's actually the kind of shit AI is good for, especially if you have any documentation you can throw at it. I've used Claude to update a load of our legacy shit to work on modern systems.
>>110321557>systemd service fileswhat black magic is this I want to know more
>>110320672it's just chroot with extra kernel features
>>110321502because it's meant to be readonly, so your deployment becomes reproducible.if you modify your system, it's unclean, no?the idea is you deploy on a clean slate
>>110321644So this is the power of dockertards...
