Why do so many Thirdies and Communists seem to lump the Bay of Pigs Invasion on the same tier as Vietnam or Afghanistan? It feels weird putting a quick failed regime change on the same level as decade long wars.
invading other countries because you can is somewhat frowned upon for anyone with a resemblance of a moral ccmpassat least mutts got btfo this time
>>18501672>invading other countries because you can is somewhat frowned upon for anyone with a resemblance of a moral ccmpassExcept for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan or the North Vietnamese invasion of South Vietnam or the North Korean invasion of South Korea?
>>18501678>but what about the gommunists the US has a vastly worse track record but i'm not defending the soviet union either>vietnamnapalmgirl.jpg>korealmfao. how many died in that one by the US
>>18501688Youre just completely deflecting the pretty obvious point Im making and proving that your moral qualms about "invading other countries because you can is somewhat frowned upon" is complete bullshit.
>>18501678>Soviet invasion of AfghanistanSoviets were asked for help by the Afghan revolutionary government, they didn't "invade just because they could".>VietnamCivil war>KoreaCivil warYou can't compare any of these to an attack on a foreign sovereign country on the other side of the world, like the USA loves to do.
>>18501697>Hungary 1956>Czechoslovakia 1968
>>18501697>Vietnam and Korea>Civil WarsExcept that North Korea and North Vietnam were sperate independent countries >Soviets were asked for help by the Afghan revolutionary governmentYou seem to have left out the part where Soviets killed Hafizullah Amin after he asked for Soviet military assistance
>>18501697>Soviets were asked for help by the Afghan revolutionary governmentThe Soviets were asked with help after a group of illegitimate thugs displaced the actual sovereign government and needed the soviets to help them suppress the populace into compliance. The first military action by them was to kill the Afghan communist leader and install their own puppet btw lolVietnam and Korea were two separate countries with the communist north in each instance invading the south. Pathetic attempt to move the goalpost. Communist ideology is rooted in a complete disregard for the very concept of the Nation-State so crying about "muh sovereignty" is just pure rules for thee, but not for me hypocrisy as usual.
>>18501693...it isn't? what if someone invades your country, ok with that? bonus point for a total disregard for civilian life, the US and israel are quite good at itwarmongering le bad, yes
OP hereWhen I said that Leftists often lump Bay of Pigs with Vietnam and Afghanistan I meant in the sense that they treated it's failure on the same level as America losing in Vietnam or Afghanistan
>>18501715incoherent and nonsensical response. Youre cooked. >"muh human life!"So youre going to denounce communism, right?
>>18501715>what if someone invades your country, ok with that? Yeah man it's terrible that North Korea almost annexed the entirety of South Korea and that thousands of South Vietnamese were forced into re-education camps after they were annexed by North Vietnam
>>18501715>what if someone invades your country, ok with that?Like when the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia in the 60s?
>>18501723obviously. it seems that you have managed to deluded yourself that you must be a communist to have the gall to criticise US wars and invasions>Youre cooked. yes you are. ffs you need to be at least 18 to post here. you sound like a teenager who came here from reddit two weeks ago. how's middle school, or are you actually retarded. sometimes i forget half the human population has a below average IQ>KILL E'M!!!!allow me to ask questions. how is the orange man's war in iran going btwyeah fuck ironic question, i'm not wasting time on this i have better things to do
>>18501728>but whataboutare you saying the US is just as bad as the soviet union? not the argument you think it isi'm out
>>18501732>critizing the US doesnt make me a communistI know, I never claimed that. I named specific examples of communist doing the very things you claim are wrong and you immediately started defending those actions. Thats what made me call you a communist.
>>18501655The US has a much ‘better’ track record of ‘success’ with its interventions in Latin America than it does in the old world. I’d argue that all the violent overthrows of legitimate governments, the covert meddling like operation condor, the assassinations, and the brutal imposition of American commercial interests just served to alienate, radicalize, and garner the cross generational antipathy of Latin Americans while also empowering communism in the region and shredding US moral authority. That said, the US is very good at barbaric, Machiavellian power politics in the region and has been for more than a century. The bay of pigs and Cuba in general are massive, shining examples of actual, blatant American failures in Latin America though. We’ve been trying to make Cuba give the Cuban exiles their slaves back for decades and it hasn’t worked. So of course Cuba is front and center for anyone on the Marxist spectrum who comes from that region.
>>18502853To be fair the U.S. didn’t actually “try” to bring about regime change in Cuba. Sure there were many attempts, but nothing actually serious. The U.S. could’ve easily conducted a full scale invasion of Cuba in 1961 without worrying about a Soviet response (Cuba became a full-fledged Soviet ally in 1962)
>>18502853>>18502865The Bay of Pigs was a right-wing Cuban operation with CIA assistance and they fucked it up. The CIA was flying air support missions and helped organize it, but it wasn't a direct U.S. military op iirc.I don't know to what extent the Kennedy administration supported it, or whether the CIA's plan was to get it started, which they believed would make it easier to convince Kennedy to then come in with the military. I think a lot of them might have thought they got sold out too, although that might have been a cope, and I think it's possible they killed Kennedy as a result (although we don't need to get into that).But yeah. Doing that and screwing it up is the worst thing you can do. It's something you only have one shot at, and if you lose then it's going to absolutely reinforce the regime you're trying to topple.The intervention in Venezuela recently is a great example of Machiavellian power politics. We don't really know the details about everything that went down, like was Maduro sold out. The head of the CIA, Ratcliffe, flew in and met with Cuban intelligence in Havana recently, and a SOUTHCOM general met with some Cuban generals at Gitmo the other day. Like what is going on.
>>18503096Bay of Pigs was an Eisenhower plan. When the CIA brought it to JFK he was doubtful of its viability, but ultimately chose to trust the competence of its planners. He was also under pressure to go through with the plan under fear that if he didn't, the press would pick it up and accuse him of being soft on communism. He was scared that obvious US involvement could lead to war in Europe, so he changed the original landing site and pulled air support which doomed the already flimsy plan to absolute failure.
>>18501709>>18501678We can go dutch on Korea and Vietnam. In Korea the UN ordered a unified election and the Soviets refused it because the commies would have lost. In Vietnam the Geneva Accords ordered a unified election and the US supported Ngo Dinh Diem in refusing it, because he would have lost. Must note the Geneva Accords were in fact just a verbal agreement and not nearly as authoritative as a UN resolution.
>>18501678>or the North Korean invasion of South KoreaSouth Korea was occupied, North Korea was under Korean control.The occupation regime of the South, moreover, had granted dictatorial power to a literal race traitor who had actively worked with the former Japanese regime that had been trying to erase Korean national identity. Like the Kims were shit, but the facts plainly spell out that they were in the right to persevere in their struggle to liberate their fatherland.>>18501678>or the North Vietnamese invasion of South VietnamFunny that, the Koreans had liberated themselves from foreign occupation, only for another foreign occupational force to move in and go: "We'd love to, but De Gaulle needs to stay in NATO&we don't think people are already being punished sufficiently whenever they choose Communism."
>>18501697>they didn't "invade just because they could"I recall that shooting all the Russian soldiers protecting the Pakistani government was among the Soviet's first move there.
>>18503115Synghman Ree was a lifelong Korean patriot who had fought the Japanese and campaigned for Korean indenpence for almost 50 years. Your claims about him are completely false. And it wouldn't matter if they were true, because at the end of the day Stalin refused to allow a unified election simply because Ree was a popular candidate who was going to win.
>>18502865We could have, but remember the US hasn’t liked invading Latin American countries since the end of the banana wars. We’ve done it (Noriega), but there’s been a strong preference for collecting some random assholes, arming, training, and funding them, and then letting them commit a litany of atrocities to hold power. This has a sadly good track record of working. That it failed in Cuba is noteworthy. Plus all the shenanigans Castro lived through kind of blends in with the whole CIA failure at the bay of pigs. Which given the absolute looney tunes level of their assassination attempts? Kinda makes sense.>>18503096Yah, it was a serious misunderstanding of the situation in Cuba mixed with Kennedy not throwing full support behind the invasion. Makes me wonder if Venezuela is a blueprint for Cuba. Though I’m not sure if Cuba will go so smoothly. Meh. Maybe if they figure out a way out of the Iran problem.
>>18503105Honestly if he was so cautious he should’ve chosen a landing spot where success would’ve been more assured. The Isle of Pines would’ve been a much better place to invade given how isolated it was, though it would make sense to do that as part of a long-term approach to overthrow the Cuban regime since it was far from the Cuban mainland.
>>18502853>We’ve been trying to make Cuba give the Cuban exiles their slaves back for decadesSlavery was already abolished in Cuba even before the Spanish-American war you fucking idiot.Also, the vast majority of exiles are poor people with no ties to the former elites. So please fuck off
>>18501678Liberation wars are not imperialist wars.
>>18503334You're baiting but commies actually believe Afghanistan and Korea were wars of liberation.
>>18503252>makes a reference to the elites that caused the revolution and are still whining about it today >incoherently shrieks about slavery being abolished Are you a retarded exile, or a retarded lost causer? Ffs, if you’re too dumb to understand the campesino issue (or cause and effect like so many exiles), or too autistic to get the reference, just neck yourself.
